Not the diary you expected to see (w/Poll)

I wanted to post in the two great diaries on disability (here and here) but I did not because my posts would have hijacked the threads. I was going to post that my son has a medical condition which is considered a disability, but it's probably only a disability because of societal structures and schedules. However, because of this medical condition and a concomitant learning disability, he is a special education student.

This weekend, I overheard a discussion about how disabled/special education students should not be 'mainstreamed' because they slow down progress for the 'normal' students. I'd like to start a discussion about this topic and get information from the educators and parents here who have knowledge and experience in these matters.

More information below.

According to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 ["ADA"]:

The term "disability" means, with respect to an individual

   (A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of the major life activities of such individual;

   (B) a record of such an impairment; or

   (C) being regarded as having such impairment.

My son's medical condition substantially limits one or more of his major life activities, so it qualifies as a disability. He has non-24-hour circadian rhythm sleep disorder, which causes his circadian rhythm to advance about an hour or so each day without treatment, where within a couple of weeks he'll go around the clock with his sleep/wake cycle (asleep at 2am and up at 11am one day, asleep at 3am and up at 12pm the next, etc.).

If he wasn't expected to show up at school at 8am every morning and eventually hold down a job at regularly scheduled hours, he probably wouldn't be considered disabled because then his medical condition wouldn't substantially limit his major life activities other than going to sleep and waking up at predicted times. But he is considered disabled for purposes of educational rights, and that means I've had to spend a lot of time fighting for a fair education for him while at the same time seeking solutions to mitigate the effects of his disability.

In addition to his medical condition, he has a learning disability whereby his processing speed is about half what it's expected to be compared to his other mental functions. His verbal/logical IQ scores are superior, but his processing speed is closer to the Forrest Gump range.

These disabilities, combined, have caused us both a great deal of frustration because there are no outward signs of any disability. He has very advanced verbal skills (always able to read and comprehend text at 3 to 5 years ahead of his age peers), so he uses big words and uses them correctly. His use of big words and otherwise good academic performance give the illusion that he has no learning disability. This has caused his teachers to assume that if he wasn't keeping up in class, he was simply being lazy or 'refusing to do his work.'

I've had to threaten lawsuits against school districts for excluding him from class due to his disabilities because the teachers would get angry with his lack of ability to keep up with his peers in written work and would send him to the office or out in the hallway, claiming he had a behavior problem and that he was refusing to do his work.

Fortunately, he's more or less 'fixed' nowadays with treatment for his medical condition (bright light therapy and drugs to cue melatonin secretion) so he's currently able to function well within society's time constraints. He is even flourishing at this time at school since he has a special education resource worker who actually understands his learning disability. But it took a lot of help to get him to where he now is. The wonderful doctors and staff at Kennedy Krieger Institute helped tremendously, as did doctors at Johns Hopkins Children's Center.

My son is 'mainstreamed' (meaning he is educated in the regular classroom with non-disabled students). I believe he should be mainstreamed due to his high aptitude and low-impact disabilities. But I know there are kids who are severely disabled who are being mainstreamed when they may not be receiving the greatest benefit by being so because the specialized attention and teacher resources needed to teach them are unavailable, causing strain on the teachers and impairing the non-disabled students' learning. I do not know all the arguments for or against mainstreaming the severely disabled but I do know the tight educational budgets cause a lack of special education teachers and that has an impact on students.

I overheard a conversation this weekend against mainstreaming. Two teachers were saying that the mainstreaming of severely disabled students shouldn't be happening as much and it's usually the parents who push for mainstreaming. The student in the example wasn't able to communicate verbally or even to write but had to be taught calculus for purposes of testing (and I assume for reporting purposes as well).

As the parent of a child who is in Special Education, I wanted to jump in but instead I listened. All I heard were arguments against the parents and in support of the teachers. One teacher was airing her frustrations with having to teach the graduation exam to kids who don't understand it because they're disabled. The conversation was furthered by my wingnut father who declared that special ed kids shouldn't be in classes with regular kids where they hinder the progress of the regular students. My father has no experience whatsoever with disabled students so I really didn't feel he had any authority to speak, but that's beside the point and par for the course with wingnuts in general.

Exmearden mentioned in her diary how Reagan cut the Federal funding for disability education. I was in middle school and high school at the time so I didn't really notice anything Reagan did until about 1986 and then, I didn't notice very much. I'd like for anyone here who was a teacher at that time or a parent of a disabled student or otherwise noticed this trend to please give your insights into the situation.

NCLB is what has caused one of the teachers participating in the conversation to have to teach the graduation exam to students regardless of their ability to even take the test, from what I understand (please correct me if I've got this wrong). I know in my experience with my son's schools, my son has done worse since NCLB and there are less and less resource workers available to help him in the classes he needs help with. I've heard nothing but complaints from teachers about NCLB, never any praise.

My thought is that wingnuts can't have it both ways. Bush's NCLB requires all kids to be taught how to pass certain tests, yet there is no funding to help the schools teach all the kids. And, from what I understand, the special ed kids have to be mainstreamed more than in the past because there's not enough money to support a separate special ed class for each grade. Furthermore, I heard last week that science and technical enrollment at universities is declining rapidly and I wonder if NCLB and funding cuts have had anything to do with the decline or not.

I'm not sure I've got the facts right. I'm going on inferences from past experience mostly. That's why I've posted this diary--to ask those who know more about disability education for more information and where to look for even more information about disability education, educational rights and advocacy.

Thanks again to exmeardenand righteousbabefor sharing their stories and helping shed more light on the topic of disability education for me.

Update: I'm logging off for a few hours but should check back in around lunchtime to respond to any comments this diary may get before it scrolls off the page.

•  tips for parent-teacher conferences

  ...and IEP meetings from hell!

  by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 01:49:47 AM PDT

•  hmm. You've hit on several issues

  that I've dealt with personally - aside from what I wrote in my own diary.

  Both I and my daughter (19 now) have non-24-hour circadian rhythm sleep disorder = only recently diagnosed. I've struggled with it for 40 years now; my daughter has had the same disorder and both us are in constant battle over sleep patterns. It's caused untold hassles for her when she was in school and now attempting to hold a job.  For me, I've somewhat learned to accomodate time periods when I just simply don't sleep at night - it's not insomnia, but try explaining that to someone who just thinks you're nuts.

  I've also been a teacher - briefly, though well before the NCLB stuff.

  From what I see of funding and the other social services that support additional education funding of special programs, it just isn't there to support the number of students in class - not just mainstreamed special needs kids, but all kids.

  In a perfect world,as both a former teacher and as a parent, I've always thought that parts of mainstreaming works very well if it can be selective - specific to every student's need to interact and understand each other and to realize that there is commonality amongst all.  But for specific learning needs, SpecEd kids need a more focused attention and often a more directed, tailored approach to their curriculum. All kids do, really.

  We just don't have the financial or space capability in many public school settings to handle this.  We practically warehouse all kids in classes at the public school level.  There is low pay, little incentive to improve targeted training, and very, very little ability to follow through with year-to-year evaluation of individual kids to keep some kind of momentum rolling from kindergarten through high school.

  It takes parents like you who can shepherd their kids through the process.  But the reality is, most parents don't or can't do this.

  As a single parent, I understand the time dilemma. It hits close to home, too close.  As a former teacher, I understand how critical the involvement of parents is.

  Sorry I have no specific anecdotal or factual evidence other than to state that I know the fed funds are not there for the schools.

  by exmearden on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 02:13:26 AM PDT

  •  no funding = frustrated teachers = drugged kids

    My diary illustrates my perspective as a parent (a single parent at that), but I have noticed during the past few years how teachers are overwhelmed from all the reasons you listed in your post. I try to sympathize with them but it's harder to do that when trying to get the individualized education the government guarantees to disabled students regardless of funding levels.
    I've noticed how all factors combined just make it easier for teachers to be drug pushers--suggesting, if not outright insisting, that the children having problems get on some sort of medication to cause the kids to (hopefully for the teachers) be more compliant. My son's schools always wanted to know if there was a pill he could take for his sleep disorder. Well, there is now, but that pill wouldn't have fixed his learning disability.
    But that sure as heck didn't stop them from wanting to give him a pill. And when he was on some meds that helped in one area, they were unable to understand how that med could have an impact on another area.
    Sadly, Bush and Big Pharma is only to happy to help get the schools involved in mental health screening and psychiatric med pushing, whether or not it's what the child needs or the parent wants.

    by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 02:38:31 AM PDT

•  I know somebody with this circadian rhythm!!

  He makes a lot of money as a software engineer. That's an industry where you can just ratchet your schedule around the clock. One good thing about this disorder, I think it would make one more aware of the need for sleeping enough. Living on 5 hours a night has probably impacted my own performance much more than I care to admit. And with all the special-needs diaries tonight I'm just staying up even later than usual to read every wonderful comment!!

  On mainstreaming - lots of parents fight for it, but it seems that the special ed teachers should really make that determination.
  I don't think it's good for a kid if they need a full-time aide to function in a regular class. A self-contained class can be more like a one-room school would have been in the last century. It kinda depends on the behavior problems and how much a loud kid can distract a jumpy kid, y'know? There's no good way to predict how well a particular program will help a particular child. It's best for the school to be dynamic and let the parent help figure out what's best, while giving the parent the right data to make a good decision.

  Honestly some of these parents would rather their kid consume 100k of budget than educate 100k worth of kids who are economically vulnerable, but a-ok physically. It just seems so selfish.

  by Lefty Mama on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 02:56:29 AM PDT

  •  Oh, gosh

    how do I respond to this?

    In his first school, younger son thrived in kindergarten and first grade: his teachers were excellent, innovative and experienced teachers who, despite the large class sizes, were able to include our son in the mainstream class.

    As of second grade, it became a mess: the classroom teacher considered him "too much trouble", the "mild/moderate" special education teacher knew nothing about autism at all, let alone high functioning autism, and was intent on pushing us to sending him to an autism specific "center" program.  Our son is autistic, not stupid.  He learned how to manipulate them both to avoid doing anything he wasn't gung-ho about -- he'd throw a tantrum to be removed from class and viola!  he didn't have to do the math assignment!

    The "center" programs the special ed teacher was pushing for are designed to be "adaptive/functional" programs geared toward teaching more profoundly affected children basic living skills, with only very rudimentary educational instruction.  Well, our child doesn't need that -- he can dress himself, feed himself, bathe himself, brush his teeth.  He already knows how to walk to the corner store and make purchases, or ask for assistance at a help desk.  Such a program would be, for him, nothing but warehousing.

    Diagnostically, we had been warned -- repeatedly -- by the experts at the JFC center where our son was diagnosed that we should in no way consent to putting our son in an autism specific program, where he would would naturally lean to behaving more autistically, rather than learning how to compensate for his autistic tendencies.  He needs to be around typical kids so he can learn from them, and practice skills obtained through other interventions.

    When it comes to saying we parents want more than our children are "entitled" to, or that meeting the needs of our children should be shunted aside because a different school population is more "important", I call bullshit.  We want for our kids what every parent wants for their kids: an appropriate educational environment.  Educational funding should not be put in this zero-sum game mode.

    Especially considering that all children would benefit from the "special accomodations" made for my son.  Wouldn't every child benefit from a lower student-to-teacher ratio?  Exposure to a large variety of learning styles and techniques, so that no one learning preference is discarded?  If more money were spent on achieving optimal learning environments for all children, there would be less need for spending the hypothetical $100,000 on one kid (and I'm really tired of being told how goddamned selfish I am for wanting to have what my child needs, and what the law guarantees -- a "free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment").

    Yeah, our son has had a one-on-one para for the last three years.  That doesn't mean that she twiddles her thumbs when not directly attending to keeping my son on-track, or helping him calm down.  Instead, she lends assistance to the classroom teachers, and to other children in the class.  It's just that having her there means that our son's needs will be met first, rather than as time allows an over-burdened teacher and a "special ed" teacher who sees him as a bother.

    by Frankenoid on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 07:06:14 AM PDT

    •  great comment!

      I especially like this:

      all children would benefit from the "special accomodations" made for my son.

      That's a great argument for aides! But I wasn't thinking of aides when I was speaking of expensive accomodations. My son is high-functioning also, but he needs quiet to function. He's also an expensive student in his self-contained class.
      I don't mind if he doesn't achieve his maximum highest possible potential. That was already taken away from him at birth. All I want is for him to be "good enough".

      It is appalling that your school had a special-ed teacher who has not had special training about autism (in all forms), or that she did not do some research herself.

      by Lefty Mama on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 10:19:54 AM PDT

    •  good answer

      IDEA guarantees a Free and Appropriate Education...appropriate for the disabled student, not for whatever the student's non-disabled peers' parents or the particular teachers at the school think is appropriate or what the school board thinks is affordable. This gets lost on a lot of people.

      You brought up something my son did, as well:

      He learned how to manipulate them both to avoid doing anything he wasn't gung-ho about -- he'd throw a tantrum to be removed from class and viola! he didn't have to do the math assignment!

      My son, whenever he tried to ask for help or otherwise ask questions, was berated by the teacher for talking out of turn and disturbing the other students. The teacher always said he could be quiet and finish the assignment or he could leave the classroom. Guess what he chose to do? He sat out in the hall or walked down to the office almost every day during English class, a subject in which he's actually gifted rather than learning disabled.

      I have a friend with an autistic child who has had similar issues with school. Her son did great with the system and teachers he had the first few years and then did horrible when the school insisted they change his program. She finally transferred him to another school where he's now thriving again.

      by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 10:31:48 AM PDT

      •  Almost time for mainstream here.

        My son enters kindergarten next school year.  He's had the same teacher and many of the same classmates in his three years of special ed preschooling.  His social/behavioral differences are not autistic, not compulsive, not intentionally disruptive.  He can grab an idea and run with it instantly.  We were watching Caillou and they were cutting out paper snowflakes and he wanted to do that - right now!  His intensity and focus are great assets - so long as he is focussed on the same as the rest of the class.

        I sometimes wonder if it's possible to have independent study for elementary school students.

        by Fabian on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 10:53:42 AM PDT

•  Mainstreaming

  My answer is a combination of things:
  It should be done when it serves the best interest of the child, and does not impair the education of other students.  OK, that's one of your choices. But I make it more complex because I think both "best interest" of the child and "impair the education" are too complex to just be left alone.  

  There are good things about mainstreaming in many cases, and the law starting it was very well intentioned and designed to prevent some horrific stuff that was going on with us special needs folk.  But it is now used, sometimes, as a way for the state to save money by denying services to kids who need them.  

  In terms of the other kids - I think, properly managed, mainstreaming can HELP the other kids.  But mismanaged, it can impede their progress.  Given the current administration's disregard for education, teaching, teachers, and schools, I fear that MISmanagement is not going to decrease until we elect some more Democrats!

  Good diary.

  Not to too shamelessly whore my own diary, but it's related, and it's Disabilities, abilities, boxes and people

  by plf515 on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 03:43:37 AM PDT

•  My son is LD

  Dyslexia & ADD...

  In elementary school, the principal did not want him mainstreamed unless us we medicated him- we refused, and won.

  In middle school, they wanted him in the special ed center- we refused, and won.

  In 7th grade, one of his teachers took in on herself to teach him to type- the best thing that ever happened to him.

  In high school, they balked on letting him take AP-level courses. We fought and won. He graduated an AP scholar.

  He's now attending a college the guidance department told him he'd never get into.

  Never. Give. up.
  We know our kids better than they do.

  by commonscribe on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 04:31:47 AM PDT

•  NCSD support group

  meets at 7pm Monday, 8pm Tuesday, 9pm Wednesday...

  by ben masel on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 05:01:23 AM PDT

•  I believe in mainstreaming to an extent

  I believe very strongly that mainstreaming is fine if it is in the best interest of the student wih a disability and doesn't cause problems with the education of the other students. Of course, to my way of thinking, having students that can do work that is above their grade level "slow down" because the rest of the class can't keep up is every bit as detrimental.

  by LynneK on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 06:22:40 AM PDT

  •  what if the student is LD and gifted?

    My son has a learning disability but is also gifted. He could always do work in certain subjects above his grade level and was forced to slow down to fit into the classroom he was put in.
    It's not uncommon for LD students to also be gifted learners, but the middle school my son attended said he was the first one of their students to be in the Gifted and Talented program with an IEP.

    by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 10:38:41 AM PDT

    •  Our district has a

      "twice exceptional" program for highly gifted/learning disabled students in elementary school.  Our elder son (ADHD, vision impaired, dysgraphia) was in it for 3 years, and it was a great thing for him.  Very small class, full-time para -- it's underutilized, quite frankly.  They had room for, I think, 16, but there were from 8 to 12 students there when my son was in it.

      by Frankenoid on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 03:06:58 PM PDT

•  Mainstreaming - yes, if it benefits the child

  I think the worst stories I have heard are about kids who frankly, can't benefit from mainstream classes but their parents push to have them put in them anyway.  I don't pretend to understand why.  Appearances, maybe.

  But if a child can benefit from the class and isn't disruptive, then accomodations should be made.

  by Fabian on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 06:25:12 AM PDT

  •  I have seen both good and bad

    Before I began homeschooling, my youngest attending the local public school. From kindergarten through 2nd grade, she had a boy, "Z", in her class. "Z" was in a wheelchair and had some "motor control" problems. Other than that, though, he was perfectly able to do the classwork and was a good student. Having him in the class benefitted him, but it also benefitted the other students, because it taught them that being in a wheelchair was no big deal.

    On the other hand, I have a friend who has a daughter who is functionally autistic. "K" is 10 years old, but is currently only able to handle work on a 1st or 2nd grade level. Her mother homeschools her because "K" would be mainstreamed in our local school, which her mother feels would not be in the best interest of either "K" or the other students. To all outward appearances, "K" would not be seen as being disabled, but "K" works better with 5 or 6 year olds rather than children her own age.

    by LynneK on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 06:34:37 AM PDT

  •  "If a child can benefit..."

    But one can't always know that before much later!

    We had a kid at my school who was seriously physically handicapped and apparently mentally handicapped.  All the experts wanted him to go to a special school.  His mother insisted, and she got the last word.

    It wasn't until he was in the 5th grade that we understood that she'd been right all along.  I'm talking about several experienced teachers and a couple of school psychologists -- it took us 4 years!

    The boy had spent much of his 2nd - 4th years of life flat on his back in hospital.  He hadn't got to experiment and learn what normal kids learn at that age.  He had a lot of catching up to do.  And he did.

    by DSPS owl on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 07:22:40 AM PDT

    •  The one story I heard

      was a high school age child reading and writing at a third grade level being pushed into high school level History class.  It does take some time to find the 'best fit' for young children.  By by high school, it's pretty apparent what a child can handle.

      I walked into my youngest son's (special ed)preschool room with my teacher and my jaw dropped.  Too busy, too many things to do was my immediate impression.  My son would be cruising from one thing to another, tasting this and that from the smorgasboard of delights that the classroom had out in plain sight.  I said nothing but within eight weeks it was suggested he be transferred to a different(more intensive, fewer students) classroom setting.  I checked out his new classroom.  It was almost spartan, lots of empty spaces, few toys.  I heaved a sigh of relief.  He's doing a lot better.

      by Fabian on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 08:14:14 AM PDT

      •  I felt that way in my son's 2nd grade classroom

        I wanted to scream for it all to stop when I walked into my son's second grade classroom. It was a mess and had too many stimulating posters and 'things' out in the open. His teacher also had a scary, wild look in her eye when she talked about him. We moved to another state and I was glad for him to be out of there.

        by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 10:43:00 AM PDT

        •  If your child is like my kids,

          They'd throw any regular teacher because they can be nonresponsive.  Say it was story time and the teacher calls the class to Circle.  My sons might stay right where they are, doing whatever.  The teacher might have to go over to them, call them by name several times and invite them to sit in the Circle.  They can hear just fine, they were just "busy".  Multiply that potentially every time there's a transition and you could have a problem.  Getting angry at them is useless - they won't understand what's wrong.  They are on their own agendas a good deal of the time and merely gaining their attention is a victory.

          I think my favorite example is bath time.  My youngest likes baths.  He will spend a half hour happily playing by himself.  Tell him that it is bath time and he runs off.  He protests taking every article of clothing off and acts like getting into the bath is some kind of punishment.  Two minutes later, he's reacquainting himself with the mysteries of his genitalia and is quite content.  

          by Fabian on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 11:40:13 AM PDT

          •  yep, he's like that

            He has frustrated so many teachers because they get angry at him for what they see as 'refusing to do his work' or something like that, when in reality he was just taking a longer time switching gears. So they'd yell at him and he'd yell back or try to explain what was happening or not even understand why he was being yelled at, and they'd invariably send him to the office saying he was acting up. This happened over and over again until high school when I finally got them to pretty much leave him alone and let him do his work w/o yelling at him for switching gears too slowly.

            by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 02:08:19 PM PDT

•  I wish you'd posted on those earlier threads

  I wanted to post in the two great diaries on disability (here and here) but I did not because my posts would have hijacked the threads.

  More people would have seen your comments and perhaps you would have found more of the folks you're looking to engage in conversation.

  You're very much on the topic of the social construct of disability. No worries, though: as new opportunities emerge, you can quote from and link back to this diary.

  Having raised a son without learning difficulties, but also without benefit of other social and economic advantages, I am intensely sympathetic with your struggle. Courage, mom!

  by CalifSherry on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 08:22:12 AM PDT

•  Wow.

  Thank you, rioduran, for such a great diary. I posted this in plf15's diary, too- that I think just talking about disability from a perspective of disabled people or their families is a really huge step.

  Your son is so lucky to have a parent like you who will stick up for him.

  My take- I've had some really great teachers who are able to accomodate a classroom of kids with all learning levels and abilities, in a way so that "gifted" kids we challenged while "not-gifted" (I hate this terminology) kids could keep up and learn, where kids with a bunch of different ranges and abilities could still benefit from and bring something to the class.

  These teachers are obviously gods.

  I think for less-godlike teachers, it's harder, and I think too often, the learning style/range/ability/disability that makes up the largest portion of the class is the one catered to, while those kids on the edges miss out. I think too often, this means for kids with learning disabilities, "You can be here with other kids, but if the learning/teaching style doesn't work for you, too bad." And that sucks. I don't know what the right way to deal with it is. The "godliness" of those teachers who can accomodate everyone is nothing that can be standardized.

  P.S. Thanks for this diary, again- I hope it gets all the recs in the world!

  by righteousbabe on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 08:26:18 AM PDT

  •  my son is about your age

    I think he might be a year or two younger than you. He's a sophomore, about to turn 16 next month.

    This year, for once, he's making A's and B's and made the varsity soccer team. He's at school every day, on time and ready to get to work. This time last year, I was afraid he'd drop out of school.

    The difference is a small school with a very supportive staff and a caseworker who has a niece with a non-verbal learning disability like he has. She's able to relate to him whereas his previous teachers and caseworkers never really tried.

    Thanks for your diary yesterday. I started to post there and in exmearden's diary but my post got to be so long I figured I should just write my own diary.

    by rioduran on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 11:04:26 AM PDT

•  I don't think I've ever spent so much time

  in comments as I have with the wonderful diaries by you, rioduran, RB and exm.  Thanks!

  by goodasgold on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 10:23:17 AM PDT

•  I have mixed feelings about special ed

  My daughter (now 40 years old) has cerebral palsy and was not in special ed and I would have fought tooth and nail to keep her out of it.  She was exceptionally bright and did not need any educational intervention.  She was reading by the age of three and, in the first grade, taught marginally mentally disabled girl to read when the classroom teacher, a special reading teacher, and a special ed teacher could not.

  The problem, I think, is that we are training the bulk of our classroom teacher to teach classes that are, if not homogeneous, are at least within a range of ability.  So I can sympathize with the teachers to an extent because they don't have the background, and sometimes the temperament, for a truly inclusive classroom.

  It seems to me that if you are going to include a broader range of abilities in one class, an entirely new organization and dynamic is needed to meet the needs of all the students.  To begin teaching like this would probably be difficult at first, but I think once a philosophic decision is made and presuming the adequate provision of resources, over time teaching in this fashion might succeed.

  That said, I think this result would be favorable for society because the kids who are usually separated into classes for "normal" kids would not be so isolated from the diversity of human existence.

  by hells kitchen on Mon Feb 19, 2007 at 01:21:34 PM PDT