Daily Kos

Does dissent or criticism harm troop morale?

Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 07:53:21 AM PDT

It seems we are going to have to shoot down this ignorant meme again and again until Republicans figure out how this democracy works. It may be a long time, folks.

There is definitive proof that criticizing the President's Iraq War failures and encouraging discussion of the unprecedented criticism by retired General Officers of our nation's gigantic problems in Iraq does not hurt our troops' morale.

Republicans keep lying about it because they can't stand the heat of the debate. When it was Bill Clinton in office they did not hesisate one second in criticizing his decisions as Commander in Chief. And they did not worry about troop morale with regard to those criticisms.

The following occurred on May 17 at a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing on the Defense Department Budget.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Peter Pace were responding to questions from Senator Arlen Specter.

(I had a good C-SPAN link at one time, but it's gone. Also, no Senate or news transcripts gave the Q&A that I could find. But knowing our Kossacks....)

They both said criticism by former Generals and discussions of the Administration's policies does not hurt troop morale -

Senator Specter: "Without getting into the substance of the comments or complaints by retired Generals: has there been any significant impact on the morale of the men and women in the Department of Defense because of those disagreements?"

Secretary Rumsfeld: "I don't know that I...I haven't taken any polling or taken temperatures in that. I haven't noticed anything Ask General Pace, he's around all the time."

Senator Specter: "How about it, General Pace?"

General Pace: "Sir, certainly not within the building. I'll reserve my comments [unintelligible]. General Hagee - is the most recent Joint Chief to come back from overseas. During his time this was all bubbling in the press. He received zero questions from any service member of any rank.

Sargent Major Gainey, who is the senior enlisted advisor to the Chairman travels all the time. And he comes back and reports back to me - as recently as last week - that in all of his travels and with as many people as he meets, not a single person has asked that question.

So as far as morale of the force: no impact, Sir."

Our troops are in Iraq dodging bullets, bombs and inside hit jobs and these guys think they can't handle a little criticism of their bold and brave "leaders"?

Our troops can handle criticism from retired Generals and anyone else. In fact, I'm sure many of them agree with much of that criticism. They can handle the poor plans, the lousy mission, and the incompetent leadership. Not all of them survive those poor plans and lack of equipment, which is tragic beyond description. Yet Republicans don't seem to care about those facts.

But our troops can handle the truth. That senate hearing was one more piece of proof. It's the anti-democratic rhetoric of their cowardly leaders on the right that betrays our troops' bravery and commitment to this nation's most cherished democratic principles.

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Permalink | 22 comments

  •  the short answer... no. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lupin, Diaries

    Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating. --Brazil (1985)

    by hypersphere01 on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 07:52:46 AM PDT

  •  i hate to quote... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    KnowVox

    a christian saying but, here gos, love the sinner hate the sin. support the troops, stop the war.
    tung sol

    'cause you're the green manalishi with the two prong crown--Peter Green, Green Manalishi

    by tung sol on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 07:57:21 AM PDT

  •  Even if it does (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    FightTheFuture

    dissent is what will bring our troops home, and I can't imagine anything that would improve their morale more than that.

  •  Because the meme is backwards!!!! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Karmafish, esquimaux

    We support the troops. Bush just wants to put a bulls-eye on their backs.

    Supporting the troops can be defined as not wanting to see them needlessly killed in misguided military adventurism.

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

    by kmiddle on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 07:59:30 AM PDT

  •  Soldiers THANK ME & others when we are protesting (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    station wagon, Hannibal, lgmcp, txlosthorn
    • they tell me that all they want to do is "COME HOME".  Families stop in their cars and thank us - telling us of their loved ones going off to battle.

    ALL BUT ELITE who contol the crooked purse strings and PROFIT from these illegal occupations... want them to stay.  FREE LABOR from the GOVT. at it's finest - at THE PEOPLE'S EXPENSE?

    SOLDIERS KNOW THE TRUTH. LISTEN to them.

    IT's all another SICK PR PROPAGANDA campaign - AGAINST soldiers and the people... IMPEACH NOW!

  •  Just make it part of basic training or recruiting (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Hannibal, lgmcp

    There will be debate over policy, and if you are going to cry in your foxhole and a result, you should NOT enlist.

    They could even sign a waiver.

  •  For some reason (0+ / 0-)

    This reminded me of Josh Sparling, the darling of right-wing hacks everywhere. Out of all the Iraq vets, injured or otherwise, to enter into public life, he's just about the only one who's come out in support of the war. Of course, he's also the only one who "started to cry uncontrollably and told the guard to go to hell." At the airport. I think the boy just loves attention.

    Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.

    by Hannibal on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 08:09:13 AM PDT

  •  Yes It Does. John Wayne's 'Green Berets' Just (0+ / 0-)

    ran last night on AMC as it does several times a month with the other liberalscostusvietnam movies. That's 40 years now so Path to 911 will be airing for at least the coming century.

    There's no way under our system for the people and for rationality to have a voice remotely equal to the empire's.

    Best case 30-40% of Americans must remain permanently lost to reality on issues of empire, and that's extremely optimistic.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 08:11:53 AM PDT

  •  If the Pentagon is wise enough to monitor (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lgmcp

    everything coming out of Iraq via the press, emails and blogs, it'd be a small step to monitor what the troops hear and see- if the Pentagon really believes what they're saying.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 08:23:13 AM PDT

  •  Can only speak for what I personally observed (4+ / 0-)

    during my 22 years of service, which included the Beirut bombings, Tanker Wars, and Gulf I.  

    In my experience, morale was most effected by short-notice deployment extensions, unrealistic rules of engagement and constantly shifting mission objectives.  More than anything else, soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines don't want their lives to be recklessly thrown away.

    Open, honest debate is core to the republic.  Only those who wish to blindly follow a fascist dictator would see debate among the our elected leaders of government, the people who WORK FOR US as somehow harmful to troops moral.

    •  I will recommend your comment (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      blueyedace2

      to tonight's Top Comments diary.

      It's interesting that the "surge" was already underway before it was announced.  I imagine the "emboldening the enemy" and "morale will suffer" charges were ready to be rolled out along with the announcement.  

      In order to hide their embezzlement behind a posse of demented hicks, Republicans' slogans must be short and superstitious. Grand Moff Texan

      by station wagon on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 09:02:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Rovians are masters of Republispeak (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blueyedace2, station wagon

        BushCheneyCo knew very well that there would be pushback from the public (and Congress) regarding this "surge".  The propaganda campaign ("emboldening the enemy" and "morale will suffer") is just another element of their strategery to dampen dissent.

        Thanks for the kind words, btw.

  •  Absolutely! (0+ / 0-)

    Of course dissent or criticism hurts troop morale.

    Nobody, not even soldiers, wants to have it pointed out, or proven, that their efforts are a waste of time and blood, or even a detriment to a peaceful world.

    The criticism is coming because the mission is a fraud and a failure.It is not the soldiers' fault; they didn't lie us into Iraq, they didn't cook up this insane scheme. But being a soldier means obeying your commander in chief, even when he's an idiot, a liar, a warmonger, or all three.

    The safeguard against troops being sent on a fool's mission is an electorate whose responsibility it is to not elect a fool.

    So now, the electorate's morale is harmed by having our failure as an electorate made evident for all the world to see. But we are not constitutionally beholden to any higher authority. Those who voted for Bush are to blame. Those who cast their vote unthinkingly, or without proper diligent research are to blame. Those who sold us Bush-Cheney are to blame. And those who allowed Bush-Cheney to be sold to us are to blame.

    Damaged troop morale, during an illegitimate military action as part of a corrupt foreign policy, is just one more price that troops pay for being good Americans.

    I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud

    by labradog on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 08:39:15 AM PDT

    •  Gee - ya think that corrupt election machines, (0+ / 0-)

      supreme court "choosing" WHO is Pres, and Corporate/State Controlled MEDIA has just a .... little responsibility here?

      I agree that there are a lot of "sheeple" out there... but I hope and pray for the sake of our Country and World... that the sheeple are waking up.

      Now, will THEY raise their voices against this madness?

      IMPEACH - IMPRISION - GET OUR TAX MONIES BACK FROM WAR PROFITEERS!

      •  Right, and right (0+ / 0-)

        Corrupt media=those who allowed Bush-Cheney to be sold to us.
        Supreme court is picked and confirmed by people who were chosen by the electorate.

        The uncomfortable thing about democracy, or even a democratic republic, is that it is always the fault of the people. You and I, too, Russgirl.

        We gotta lotta work to do, and a lot more hell to raise. Make Molly proud, if she's now where she can watch us.

        I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud

        by labradog on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 02:02:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Experience and News (0+ / 0-)

    Teh troops morale is hurt by their experience, seeing that they are being put at risk but accomplishing nothing in terms of pacifying the country.
    Morale is also hurt by getting the news. After all, you don't know whether the experience in front of you is the exception or the rule.

    The Bush-League argument is always that hiding the news from the troops will improve their morale. Don't tell them that anyone else has figured out that that his plans aren't bringing peace anytime soon.

    "I'm not opposed to all wars; I'm opposed to dumb wars." -- Obama in 2002

    by Frank Palmer on Fri Feb 02, 2007 at 09:22:02 AM PDT

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