Live Thread Part II-Climate Change Hearing

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C-Span 3

Live Thread Part I here

•  Carbon Neutral Mortgage Association

  Connie Mae Home Improvement package!

  SEC - disclose carbon emissions.

  Excellent ideas to combat global climate change.

  by Kimberley on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:41:26 AM PDT

  •  Here's Gore's full list of Signs and Suggestions

    Signs:

    • New evidence that's come out shows that this may be worse than described.  Arctic ice cap is melting more rapidly than predicted.  Could disappear in summertime in 34 years.  This problem is burning a hole at the top of the world.
    • Earth is shaking because of Greenland - glacial earthquakes - 1993 there were 7, 1999, 14, last year, 32.  
    • Frozen methane in the tundra, billions of tons, 23 times more powerful than C02, need to turn the thermostat down before that melts.
    • Fires in the west, Russia, Australia (1000 year drought) correlates with warming temps and earlier spring.  

    Many other signs that we do not have time to play around with this, do not have the luxury for politics as usual.

    Suggestions:

    1. Immediately freeze C02 emissions in US, reach 90% reductions by 2050.
    2. Start using the tax code to reduce taxes on employment and make up the difference with pollution taxes.  We're discouraging work and encouraging the destruction of the planet.  Carbon pollution not presently priced into the marketplace.  Air and water are part of that, must be revenue neutral tax shift.
    3. Portion of those revenues must be earmarked for lower income groups who will have a hard time making shift.
    4. Strong global treaty.  Kyoto has been demonized.  Work for defacto compliance. We ought to move forward the starting date of the next treaty from 2012 to 2010 so whoever is sworn in in 2009 can use political mandate to work toward defacto compliance and then ratify a new, tougher treaty.  Build more confidence with China, India to bring them to participate.
    5. Congress should issue moratorium on any new coal plant not compliant with carbon capture
    6. Like the initiative to build the Internet, this congress should develop an Electranet, a smart grid.  A law that allows homeowners and businesspeople to put up their own generators, sell electricity into the grid without caps at a rate that is not determined by the utility, but as a tariff.
    7. Raise CAFE standards, cars, coal and buildings.
    8. Along with tax system and treaty, use regulatory power.  Set a date for ban on incandescent light bulbs.  
    9. Buildings:  pass a law - Connie Mae, carbon neutral mortgage association.  
    10. SEC should require disclosure of carbon emission in corporate reporting.

    by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:57 AM PDT

    •  Excellent!

      by bumblebums on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:13:23 AM PDT

      •  Thanks! n/t

        by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:18:45 AM PDT

    •  Thanks for posting this again jhritz! n/t

      by donnamarie on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:16:38 AM PDT

      •  I'm going to diary it later

        once we get through the next round.

        by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:20:04 AM PDT

        •  Just the final list, I mean

          and links to the replays.

          by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:22:15 AM PDT

          •  And to these diaries, of course :O)

            links, I mean.

            by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:23:25 AM PDT

    •  8a. Require built-in UV filtering in fluorescents

      I would have already changed most bulbs, but I have a lot of artwork which will be ruined. Protecting it from UV lighting is much more expensive than just swapping out bulbs. There needs to be greater awareness about the UV effects of fluorescents.

      by TrainWreck on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 09:17:20 AM PDT

      •  Great point! n/t

        by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 09:24:57 AM PDT

•  Kanji

  "Crisis" pairs the characters of danger with opportunity.

  This is a moral imperative, we defended civilizations gate, rose to the challenge, and we found a capacity we didn't know we had. This is our greatest opportunity of all.

  by Kimberley on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:44:45 AM PDT

•  buttering Congress up!

  Yes!  Thank you.

  by Fabian on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:44:51 AM PDT

•  Unprecendented nature of the challenge

  This is the most dangerous crisis we've ever faced, but also a great opportunity...

  Opportunity to solve this...we dug deeply and found we had a capacity we didn't know we had.

  It really is up to this Congress...I cannot overstate the hope and good feeling that people have all across this Country about this Congress to do the right thing.

  I want my President! What in the hell happened?!

  by Jennifer Clare on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:45:26 AM PDT

•  Kimberley and Fabian

  Maybe hop on over here when Part I gets to be closer to 300 comments?  People are still blogging on Part I.

  by donnamarie on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:45:46 AM PDT

  •  please help

    i missed the first 1 1/2 hours because i set tivo to wrong station and my satellite provider does not include cpan 3. is there anyplace where i can see video of first part of testimony?

    by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:12:49 AM PDT

    •  Tonight on Cspan1 or 2 n/t

      by maybeeso in michigan on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:21:59 AM PDT

      •  thanks!

        i was so bummed out.

        by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:31:35 AM PDT

•  Gore

  I cannot possibly overstate the strength, hope, and good feelings that people over this country have about this congress and new approach.. I'm going to stir up as much support as I possibly can

  by Ellicatt on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:46:01 AM PDT

•  Great plan for a future president

  yes?

  Really. Compare this sane, reasonable, fact-based, able speaker to the thing we have as president now. Yikes.

  The plan here.

  by catjo on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:46:11 AM PDT

  •  Sane, reasonable, fact based--yes!

    And thanks for the link!

    by Jennifer Clare on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:48:29 AM PDT

•  Questioning is starting now.

  Rep. Gordon (TN)

  by beachmom on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:47:42 AM PDT

•  Thank you donnamarie n/t

  As far as I'm concerned, Gore can take ALL the TIME he wants and I hope he does!

  by Terre on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:48:07 AM PDT

•  I wonder how annoyed

  The other candidates would be if we all started calling Al Gore, "Mister President" to his face? Why did this man... never mind, you get the idea.
  Draft Gore is starting to sound REAL good right now.

  by RElland on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:50:07 AM PDT

•  VP Gore addresses costs

  Alleged costs of the solution -- "They've got the signs wrong"

  This means, if one goes about this in the right way, instead of a minus sign we can use a plus sign because it will save money and it will help the economy

  by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:50:24 AM PDT

  •  Amid heavy citing

    of Amory Lovins and the Rocky Mountain Institute ... worthy and well-deserved advertising.  

    by A Siegel on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:00:01 AM PDT

    •  Yes, thanks for adding links

      I completely missed his last name.

      by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:01:09 AM PDT

•  AL AL AL.. are you pretending?

  you don't understand trigonometry?

  teasing Amory Lovins... so cute!

  (but uh oh!  cue the "phony Southern accent" alert!)

  by pitbullEmily on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:50:35 AM PDT

•  Gore speaks of Sweden

  Speaking of Sweden's carbon neutral buildings--

  High tech, fairly easy to achieve, zero carbon buildings.

  We can improve our economy's performance--pollution is waste

  by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:52:13 AM PDT

  •  And

    see Architecture 2030 ... a path to 100% carbon free US building infrastructure.

    by A Siegel on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:00:45 AM PDT

•  Improve the Economy's performance ...

  is a key element of Energize America ... a sustainable and prosperous energy future.

  This is very much like what I wrote in:  Energizing America: The E2 Solution Path -- The energy speech for the next President ...

  by A Siegel on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:52:36 AM PDT

  •  I've heard of those guys. :)

    by cskendrick on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:56:02 AM PDT

•  The cost to our economy

  of not addressing this crisis will be enormous.

  by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:53:13 AM PDT

  •  never mind that whole uninhabitable planet bit.

    by cskendrick on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:58:24 AM PDT

    •  True that

      n/t

      by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:59:08 AM PDT

    •  I hope someone can tell me that it is impossible

      for Venus to have once been a too hot but viable environment for humans or other intelligent beings who got into the carbon trap we're (I hope) just starting to get away from.

      by maybeeso in michigan on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:02:06 AM PDT

•  Gordon (D-TN)

  Cost - what is the cost associated?  To Gore: (Gordon reads a Gore quote: "There are some who will say...this will be costly.  I don't agree; it will save money and boost productivity."  Can you (explain)?

  Gore:  ... this is not going away, its getting worse.  Efforts to build public support will be increasing steadily.  on cost:  we used to get testimony from the Rocky Mtn. Institute.  (this person) has been right on this for 30 years.  ... if you go about this in the right way...you need to put a plus sign in the sense that its going to save money and make the economy stronger.  Sometimes the people who work with the details of this crises feel the same way.  There are some solutions that do have minus signs as well as plus signs.  In Sweden, have a program of zero carbon...they put in expenditure for window treatments..things they can do that are simple when they understand what they are doing...it more than pays for itself.  There are some other approaches that would be costly, but if we choose correctly, we can improve economy's performance and save money.

  Pollution is waste.  You have to buy raw materials to make pollution.  Figure how to put more raw materials into the process instead of into waste, and this is an improvement.

  by Ellicatt on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:53:20 AM PDT

  •  Amory Lovins ...

    "This person"

    by A Siegel on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:01:18 AM PDT

    •  Thanks - I missed the name! n/t

      by Ellicatt on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 10:35:19 AM PDT

•  The debate on the science is over with!

  If we go about it right we can save money; if we don't confront this the cost will be enormous.

  by Jennifer Clare on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:53:28 AM PDT

•  Did Rep Dingell just call Al Gore

  Mr. President?

  by maybeeso in michigan on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:55:35 AM PDT

  •  Mr. President

    yes, he did.  Prophetic.

    by triciawrites on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:56:24 AM PDT

    •  or factual.

      by Embee on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:56:54 AM PDT

  •  Mr. VP. You retain your title

    same as being a former Prez.

    by cskendrick on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:57:15 AM PDT

  •  Did he?!

    I missed a part due to a phone call.

    Priceless if so, and a great sound bite.  :o)

    by Terre on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:58:11 AM PDT

  •  Err??

    He reading DKos??
    I just commented that we should do that!!
    Cool...

    by RElland on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:17:43 AM PDT

    •  He was too busy to read DKos great minds

      think alike.  

      by maybeeso in michigan on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 09:48:09 AM PDT

  •  Really?

    Out of the mouths of... respectable Congressmen. Go him!

    by maralenenok on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:49:29 AM PDT

  •  Several times.

    by NNadir on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 09:46:00 AM PDT

•  Joe Barton, R-TX

  What a buffoon. Who else is sick of these idiots dismissing global warming because they don't "agree"?

  "So-called 'science'"? WTF?

  We really need to purge these dumbs***s from public life.

  by Jennifer Clare on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:55:44 AM PDT

•  Talking Point

  It's not about the natural fluctuations over time, it's about the rapid increase in recent history.  

  Simple.

  by otto on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:56:35 AM PDT

  •  last time such a surge occurred

    90% of all species died.

    by cskendrick on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:57:53 AM PDT

•  Barton: "As you preach..."

  f/u, barton.

  by urbannie on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:57:05 AM PDT

•  Comment from Wingnut Congresscritter--

  Global warming as addressed in Inconvenient Truth--

  Science is uneven and evolving.  Questioning Gore's facts used in the movie, regarding ice cores.  CO2 levels went up after the temperatures rose.  It remains a fact that for hundreds of thousands of years a rise in CO2 follows a rise in temperature, and Gore's claims exactly the opposite.

  by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:58:18 AM PDT

  •  Congresscritter claims Gore's science is flawed

    We knew this was coming.  :(

    by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:00:33 AM PDT

•  Barton's strategy

  Throw so much stuff at Gore in 5 minutes he won't be able to adequately respond. Bad strategy.

  by Scarce on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:58:47 AM PDT

  •  Is it ...

    He is stated falsehoods and misleading elements as "fact" ... who is he speaking to ... what is strategy?  It is to foster skeptism and confusion.

    And, to argue "we're already doing" lots of what you support ... disingenous ...

    And, the sole question is on "CAFE" ...

    Elections have consequenses ... and Joe Barton is no longer a committee chair!

    by A Siegel on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:03:31 AM PDT

    •  Sure..no illusions about the bullshit factor

      ..but you know Barton will call for Gore to respond to some points directly, as he's doing by interrupting. Barton is just a toady for the oil and petro-chemical companies.

      by Scarce on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:08:37 AM PDT

•  Barton

  He did not write this speech.  He is using incorrect acronyms for studies. He's reading, and reading things wrong.

  I wonder which oil company prepared this for him.

  by mikel1814 on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:59:14 AM PDT

  •  Kie-o-to sounds more like coyote

    ..than the actual pronunciation.

    by Scarce on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:02:55 AM PDT

    •  Maybe he means to say

      Pie-o-to.

      by pattyp on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:13:41 AM PDT

  •  Yup

    the naysayers got together and drafted his speech to get all their negative talking points in.

    A pox on their houses.

    by Terre on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:05:33 AM PDT

•  Barton (R-TX)...ass...

  I sincerely don't agree with your conclusions, (but recognizes his passion).

  I will point out that your actual testimony bears little resemblance to your statement.
  (Gore says he will revise for the record).

  Science of global warming as portrayed in "an inconvenient truth".  Even mainstream media (recognizes that global warming is uncertain)..  You have indicated that in your movie (it is fact).

  A rise in CO2; it appears that temperatures (affect CO2).  You are wrong (in your conclusions).  We know that CO2 levels have exceeded concentrations...in the past have exceeded when average earth temperatures (were higher than where they are today).  It remains a fact that for 100's of thousands of years (CO2 levels have risen with the temperatures).

  (he is basically calling Gore a liar regarding what was presented in the A.I.T. movie.)

  by Ellicatt on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:59:42 AM PDT

  •  Using MSM as evidence is circular logic ...

    ... given the effectiveness of corporate propaganda in misrepresenting the scientific consensus and creating uncertainty.

    by berith on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:21:30 AM PDT

•  Al waiting to crush Barton

  

  I have no fear.

  Go get 'im, Al.

  by mem from somerville on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 07:59:44 AM PDT

  •  the committee should be under no illusion

    of the scientific consensus.

    by mem from somerville on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:30 AM PDT

    •  You don't tell the doctor

      you read a science fiction novel that said a fever isn't a problem!

      HA HA HA

      by mem from somerville on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:07:02 AM PDT

      •  I have a FEVER

        And the only prescription is more Gore baby!

        by Dave Montoya on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:22:51 AM PDT

  •  expression says step into my parlor...

    says the spider to the fly

    by tgray on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:44 AM PDT

•  How did Barton get on this committee?!

  No need to reply.

  by Terre on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:01:53 AM PDT

  •  (for inquiring minds)..he was actually

    the chairman of this committee prior to last November's elections!

    by Ellicatt on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:03:57 AM PDT

    •  THAT

      is a scary, scary thought. He must be so pissed right now!

      Lisa

      by Boston to Salem on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:55 AM PDT

    •  Oh...well, that'll do it

      Thank god he isn't anymore.

      by Terre on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:08:05 AM PDT

  •  They needed a rep from the oil companies

    so Barton was the logical conclusion.

    by adigal on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 10:44:35 AM PDT

•  Oh my GAWWWWD!

  Thank GOD Barton managed to stop Al Gore and his crazy idea to stop people for reproducing so we don't have more carbon-producers!!

  What an idiot.

  Lisa

  by Boston to Salem on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:03:00 AM PDT

•  Gore's signs and suggestions (full list)

  Signs:

  • New evidence that's come out shows that this may be worse than described.  Arctic ice cap is melting more rapidly than predicted.  Could disappear in summertime in 34 years.  This problem is burning a hole at the top of the world.
  • Earth is shaking because of Greenland - glacial earthquakes - 1993 there were 7, 1999, 14, last year, 32.  
  • Frozen methane in the tundra, billions of tons, 23 times more powerful than C02, need to turn the thermostat down before that melts.
  • Fires in the west, Russia, Australia (1000 year drought) correlates with warming temps and earlier spring.  

  Many other signs that we do not have time to play around with this, do not have the luxury for politics as usual.

  Suggestions:

  1. Immediately freeze C02 emissions in US, reach 90% reductions by 2050.
  2. Start using the tax code to reduce taxes on employment and make up the difference with pollution taxes.  We're discouraging work and encouraging the destruction of the planet.  Carbon pollution not presently priced into the marketplace.  Air and water are part of that, must be revenue neutral tax shift.
  3. Portion of those revenues must be earmarked for lower income groups who will have a hard time making shift.
  4. Strong global treaty.  Kyoto has been demonized.  Work for defacto compliance. We ought to move forward the starting date of the next treaty from 2012 to 2010 so whoever is sworn in in 2009 can use political mandate to work toward defacto compliance and then ratify a new, tougher treaty.  Build more confidence with China, India to bring them to participate.
  5. Congress should issue moratorium on any new coal plant not compliant with carbon capture
  6. Like the initiative to build the Internet, this congress should develop an Electranet, a smart grid.  A law that allows homeowners and businesspeople to put up their own generators, sell electricity into the grid without caps at a rate that is not determined by the utility, but as a tariff.
  7. Raise CAFE standards, cars, coal and buildings.
  8. Along with tax system and treaty, use regulatory power.  Set a date for ban on incandescent light bulbs.  
  9. Buildings:  pass a law - Connie Mae, carbon neutral mortgage association.  
  10. SEC should require disclosure of carbon emission in corporate reporting.

  by jhritz on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:12 AM PDT

•  Gore--

  Congress should not be deceived.  There is a scientific consensus.

  by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:24 AM PDT

•  Barton wants to keep American jobs

  in America? He needs to talk to his corporate welfare pals who are laying people off and outsourcing jobs overseas instead of wasting Gore's time.

  by pattyp on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:35 AM PDT

  •  No shit. What an asshole. n/t

    by Boston to Salem on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:05:49 AM PDT

•  Scientific consensus

  scientific american said the debate on global warming is over

  it's rare to have consensus in science

  it's like... gravity

  by joanneleon on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:04:58 AM PDT

  •  BEST LINE OF THE HOUR!

    "there isn't as strong a consensus on anything in science, except perhaps gravity"

    by pitbullEmily on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:07:30 AM PDT

•  Gore Vs Barton

  Notice how Barton couldn't pick his head up for fear of losing his place in his "notes", and Gore is talking off the top of his head?

  Why would anyone with a brain believe Barton?

  Lisa

  by Boston to Salem on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:05:02 AM PDT

•  There's natural carbon, and human produced

  I kind of think about it like natural cholesterol and ingested cholesterol.

  by otto on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:05:33 AM PDT

•  That Dude is a complete puffy Republican prick.

  by churchlady on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:05:45 AM PDT

  •  Straight up

    He's an absolute wanker.

    by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:50 AM PDT

•  Arrggh...

  Is Gore allowed to just pull out a revolver and just shoot Barton in the forehead?

  by Scarce on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:11 AM PDT

  •  Yeah, let's move this hearing

    to Deadwood :)

    Sigh.

    by lulu57 on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:19:18 AM PDT

•  YES!!!!!!!!!!!

  Al is bitch-slapping Barton like you can't believe.

  Kick his ass, Al!

  by IndyScott on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:12 AM PDT

  •  how so?

    I'm deaf and c-span3 isn't captioned.

    by slinkerwink on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:49 AM PDT

    •  Barton keeps interrupting

      Asking if there will be an answer to the questions--

      Gore says Barton's asked many questions and he would like to respond.

      Gore says that we take a baby to the doctor when it has a fever.  The planet has a fever.

      by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:08:12 AM PDT

      •  And if the baby is on fire in the crib

        you don't ask if the baby is fire-retardant.

        ROFL!!

        by Terre on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:16:51 AM PDT

        •  That was beautiful

          Al is the man!

          by Buckeye BattleCry on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:26:08 AM PDT

•  anyone one know when the replay will be on?

  by jezlin on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:24 AM PDT

•  Gore

  The planet has a fever.

  by Kimberley on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:28 AM PDT

  •  And the only prescription is

    more carbon neutrality!

    by pattyp on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:16:02 AM PDT

•  barton - wah - you're using up my time

  [gore is answering in full, barton gets annoyed and tries to cut him off]

  my time has expired, what's your answer?

  i'd like to have an answer

  gore:  well you asked quite a few of them and i'm doing my best (continues to answer)  :)

  by joanneleon on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:52 AM PDT

•  Bolton Smackdown

  "the Planet has a fever"

  by triciawrites on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:06:59 AM PDT

•  Like the fever example

  Gore: "five degrees might not sound like much, but 103.6 is five degrees off 98.6."

  by jj32 on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:07:17 AM PDT

•  BWAhahahahaaaa!

  "If the crib's on fire, you don't speculate that your baby's flame retardant." You go, Al. Priceless.

  by pattyp on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:07:21 AM PDT

  •  So glad you caught that...

    I was still laughing from the science fiction novel and nearly missed it...

    by mem from somerville on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:13:15 AM PDT

•  "Science fiction"

  Gore comparing what Barton said to science fiction - love it!

  by tgray on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:07:23 AM PDT

  •  A wild guess...

    but I wonder if that was a well-deserved shot at Michael Crichton's novel "State of Fear."

    by pattyp on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:10:52 AM PDT

    •  I bet you're right

      Well spotted.

      by geordie on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:11:52 AM PDT

    •  How much you wanna bet

      Some republican tries to enter that book into the record??

      Lisa

      by Boston to Salem on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:12:43 AM PDT

      •  No way I'd take that bet.

        It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

        by pattyp on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:18:03 AM PDT

    •  that's what i thought too.

      and i bet one of those clowns uses that rag to support their argument

      by tgray on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:15:33 AM PDT

  •  thing is, there's plenty of SF

    that bases extrapolation on current science to speculate on all sorts of future scenarios.

    Kim Stanley Robinson just completed a trilogy about the climate/ecosphere crisis, that consists of 'Forty Days of Rains', '50 degrees Below Zero' and 'SIxty Days and Counting'. He used best science available, and wrote some pretty good novels about sane and rational people doing all they could to find solutions and mitigations to the damage the human race is doing to our only habitable planet.

    Now, if we could just make sure there's more sane and reasonable people running our country, maybe we can avoid the worst of the impacts of GHGs and environmental degradation.

    by NMRed on Wed Mar 21, 2007 at 08:34:43 AM PDT

•  Can you just see what Gore must be thinking