Daily Kos

Answering Moral Questions: A Primer for Democrats

Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 12:22:23 PM PDT

A top Bush appointee like Peter Pace puts his foot in his mouth, and so naturally it becomes a problem for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

Get that? Me neither.

So let’s back up and take it step by step. How did Barack and Hillary screw up? What should Democratic candidates do differently in the future?

The Story So Far

First let's get the facts straight. Skip on down if you know this stuff already.

Last Monday, General Peter Pace, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was talking on the record to editors and reporters of the Chicago Tribune when he was asked about the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards gays and lesbians. He supported the policy by saying that homosexual acts are immoral, and that the military would be condoning immorality if it allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly. He compared the rule to the military's policy against soldiers sleeping with each other's wives.

So the press comes to presidential candidates with the question: Do you agree? Are homosexual acts immoral? Republican Sam Brownback has no trouble answering: Yes, they are. John McCain just refuses to answer, and for some reason everybody seems to be OK with that. Rudy Giuliani apparently also has no comment. Thank you, Rudy.

Hillary Clinton on Good Morning America says a few of the right things: She's against "don't ask, don't tell" because "We are being deprived of thousands of patriotic men and women who want to serve their country who are bringing skills into the armed services that we desperately need, like translation skills." That's a reference to the dismissal of gay Arabic-speaking translators in November, 2002 – just when we needed them.

But when pressed to comment on the "immoral" aspect of it, Clinton punts: "Well, I'm going to leave that to others to decide." Then, after hearing responses from the gay community, she puts out an additional statement: "I should have echoed my colleague Senator John Warner's statement forcefully stating that homosexuality is not immoral because that is what I believe."

So the end result is that she managed to annoy both the gays and the anti-gays. Nice work.

Obama was a little better, but not much. His initial comment was only: "I think traditionally the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman has restricted his public comments to military matters. That's probably a good tradition to follow." And then he also followed up Thursday with: "I do not agree with General Pace that homosexuality is immoral. Attempts to divide people like this have consumed too much of our politics over the past six years."

The Problem

Whatever their actual phrasing was, both Clinton and Obama got translated as saying: (1) "I don't want to talk about it because I'll piss somebody off"; followed by (2) "Gays are already pissed off at me, so I have to placate them somehow." Both came off looking spineless and calculating.

Even so, liberal critics are wrong to say that the question is simple and Democrats should "just say no" when asked about gay immorality. It isn't a simple question at all, because it comes loaded with all kinds of invisible freight. An ideal liberal answer would: (1) say no; (2) unload the invisible freight; and (3) be short enough that the nuances wouldn't get completely lost in the media coverage.

That's not easy.

As a thought experiment, consider something less controversial than homosexuality: anal sex by a straight married couple. Imagine you're a leading Democratic candidate for president and the press asks you if it's immoral. Your honest belief is no and you certainly don't want to be quoted as saying yes. But you know that if you answer directly, everything else you've said today is out the window. The headline will read: "Smith Endorses Anal Sex". Is that really what you want your message to be today?

So the desire to hesitate and waffle and hope nobody notices is perfectly reasonable. McCain and Giuliani got away with it, and I'll bet they're happy.

But liberals face a headwind: For decades Republicans have been repeating the charge that we have no morality. Every time a liberal dodges a moral question, that criticism gets validated. So liberals need to wade into moral questions. No matter how impossible those questions are, a liberal candidate needs to have a tone and manner that says, "I'm glad you asked that."

Respect

Once you start into the minefield, you need to know where the mines are. The first mine has to do with respect. Another decades-old conservative talking point is liberal elitism. Millions and millions of people expect not just that a liberal will disagree with their views, but that a liberal will look down on them for believing what they believe. They are expecting an insult, so they will hear one if you give them any chance.

That's why the very first line of your answer has to have the word respect in it: "I respect General Pace's right to his personal moral beliefs, and I support every American's right to speak freely." If anybody said that, they didn't say it loud enough to get coverage. And conservatives have jumped on that absence as evidence that liberals don't respect a person's right to express conservative beliefs. Paul Chesser wrote in The American Spectator: "Clearly for Pace to speak out 'as an individual' is an abomination in the homosexual Code of Behavior, whatever that is. Their oft-asserted claim to inclusiveness leaves a few colors out of the rainbow spectrum: Bible-literalness and relativism rejection being two of them."

That's the spin: Democrats are condemning General Pace because he expressed Christian beliefs in public. Don't think that won't have traction, even with some liberal Christians who ought to be voting Democratic. Now go back and read Obama's initial statement. He walked right into it. Once you put his statement inside the conservative frame, it sounds like he's saying: "Christians should just shut up."

Responsibility

In your second line you get to throw in the appropriate qualifiers. It won't get on TV, but you might get quoted in the newspapers. And you have to use some form of the word responsible: "But when public officials speak on the record in their official capacity, they have a responsibility not to substitute their personal opinions for public policy." The end of that sentence repeats almost word-for-word the standard conservative line about "activist judges".

Hit the point harder. The liberal view is the responsible one, while conservatives abuse their positions to impose their personal morality on the rest of us. "Military policies need military justifications. Qualified gays and lesbians should not be kept out of our armed forces because General Pace personally disapproves of their lifestyle."

Now get to policy. Don't ground your view in what's best for gay and lesbian individuals; ground it in what's right for America. This is where Hillary's initial point comes in: "Militarily, don't-ask-don't-tell has been a disaster for our country. At a time when we are at war and our military is stretched thin, this policy has turned away thousands of volunteers and resulted in the dismissal of soldiers with valuable skills."

Don't be afraid to wave the bloody shirt. They'd do it to us: "At a time when lives may depend on our ability to quickly and accurately translate intercepted Arabic traffic, don't-ask-don't-tell has forced us to do without the services of many Arabic language specialists. We need to ask ourselves which is more important: Stopping terrorist attacks or regulating the private lives of our troops?"

Principles

Now you wait for the question: But do you agree with General Pace that homosexual acts are immoral?

We're at the Smith-endorses-anal-sex point. Now the landmine to be avoided is this: The phrase homosexual acts by itself causes many Americans to imagine things that even you would think are immoral. (Picture Ted Haggard cheating on his wife by taking crystal meth with his gay prostitute. Are you OK with that?) If you just say no, they think that you've endorsed whatever disgusting things they're seeing in their heads.

Don't. Your answer needs to communicate not just that you disagree with General Pace, but that your disagreement is founded on a moral view of life. You're not just counting gay and lesbian votes, you're living according to your principles. That reasoning won't convince the Falwells and Dobsons, but they weren't going to vote for you anyway. Swing voters respect a principled politician even if they disagree.

Your principles don't have to be religious, but if you have a religion this is the place to mention it. I do, so I'd answer like this: "My Unitarian Universalist religion teaches me that sex is primarily about relationships, not just physical acts. Our second principle commits us to 'justice, equity, and compassion in human relations'. And that's how I judge all relationships: sexual or non-sexual, gay or straight. Are those relationships just? Are they equitable? Are they compassionate? To the extent that they are, I celebrate them. And to the extent that they are not, I condemn them."

Liberals are probably nervous about putting the word condemn into the answer. But some such word has to be there. Conservatives have successfully projected the anything-goes stereotype onto us. Many people honestly believe that we can't condemn anybody for anything (except when we hypocritically contradict ourselves by condemning Christian people like General Pace for having moral standards). So if the picture in your head is Ted Haggard and crystal meth, I think it's important that you hear a condemnation in my answer. Or at least something stronger than "Whatever, dude." My moral standards may not be the same as yours, but I do have some.

The Take Away Points

So listen up, Democratic candidates: You have to wade into moral questions, even when you'd rather not. You need to look eager to answer them and not uncomfortable in the least.

You start by expressing respect for people whose honest beliefs are different than yours, but then you imply that your opponent's position is irresponsible while yours is responsible. Your opponent is putting his personal views above his responsibility to the country, whereas you are asking what is best for America.

If you are pressed for personal moral views, ground them in principle. Your principles should be clear and direct. The nuances should be in the application of principle to a particular case, not in the statement of the principle itself. Your principles should not be empty, embracing everything and everybody.

And get it right the first time. Nobody is going to be impressed by your "clarifying" statement tomorrow morning.

You in the back – Hillary! Barack! – you got that?

cross-posted on Street Prophets

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Democrats, 2008 elections, morality, Rescued (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 29 comments

    •  You've hit on a basic theme of dispute resolution (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DavidW in SF, BachFan, DanC, gatordem

      People need to feel heard and respected, even if disagreed with. Even if strongly disagreed with.

      Partisans on both sides of the aisle are lately pretty lousy at doing this, which I believe is one of the reasons we are so polarized.  

      It's hard to respect someone who doesn't respect you.  And, generally speaking, that's when people stop listening.

      The times, they are a-changin'

      by Malacandra on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 12:48:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So, what should they have said? (0+ / 0-)

      Give me a succinct, for example this would have worked statement.

      Please, I mean this sincerely; but I don't think there is a good way to answer this question. I'll give you target practice. Improve on this.

      I don't understand why anyone is interested on my opion of the morality of homosexuality. It's irrelevant. We need people to fulfill roles on our military and society. To me, using homosexual status as a construct to prevent people from performing vital services that save lives in the military is what is truly immoral.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:45:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sounds like someone has been reading Lakoff. n/t (0+ / 0-)

  •  so... (0+ / 0-)

    Would pointing out that adultry, fraternization and sexual acts (any kind) on duty are already prohibited by the UCMJ, gain anything in this situation?

    Does General Pace also want to ban women from the military? Married people?

    Would this be too much logic for the american media?

    The biggest threat to America is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy... -- Frank Zappa

    by NCrefugee on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:23:30 PM PDT

    •  you're arguing the original issue (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Kaos Klerik

      which is don't-ask-don't-tell. I agree with you on that. After Pace's interview, though, the real attention was on the more general morality issue.

      Where Clinton and Obama got hurt was with the people who really don't care that much about DADT, but they do care about candidates having no values and just pandering to whoever they think they can get to vote for them.

      The story those people heard was that Democrats were asked a moral question, had no answer, and then (after they realized that gays and lesbians expected them to have an answer) they said what the gays and lesbians wanted to hear.

      If that story were true, if Democrats really did have no values and only said what people want to hear, why would anyone vote for them?

  •  Religion (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Malacandra, AlanF, Uthaclena, JDWolverton

    You had me until the religious response.  At that point I would say something similiar, but far simpler:

    Gay rights is a civil rights issue.  The same arguments against homosexual relationships were being used against interracial relationships in a dark era of our past.  It is not the business of the government to tell people how to conduct their private lives; it is, quite the opposite, to support and protect their privacy.

    We're all just monkeys burning in hell. SmokeyMonkey.org

    by smokeymonkey on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:30:26 PM PDT

    •  I like yours better than mine. (0+ / 0-)

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 01:48:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But that's the thing, they're *your* values (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Malacandra

      and you expressed them. You have a very effective answer to the question. Precede your statement with the framing about, insert your values, and voila!

      Pericles is not arguing for that specific "religious" answer (those are his values), but rather a method for the candidates to answer such questions meaningfully, effectively, and (hopefully) truthfully.  The important thing is to make sure you make your values known, and stress that you do indeed have values.

      The problem is that currently the candidates are seen as ducking the moral aspect, and it is not only chicken-hearted, but ineffective.

      •  Exactly! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ScienceMom

        The important thing is to make sure you make your values known, and stress that you do indeed have values.

        Of course, that requires that the candidates have thought through these issue before the question is asked, so they will be ready to answer.  The questions about homosexuality should not have come as a surprise to them; why did they not have an answer ready?  Do they not have staffs to help them think about these issues?

        •  If they know their values (0+ / 0-)

          then they should be able to answer questions easily. There's no shame in pausing for a moment before answering a question. I'd rather feel that a candidate is taking the time and actually considering their answer than just rattling off the latest talking point.

  •  Ho-hum, another excellent diary by Pericles (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Malacandra, Makeda

    Reminds me of several days into my first Burning Man experience (peering over heads of the crowd): "Oh, it's just more naked women breathing fire. Nothing we haven't seen lots of already."

    Highly recommended!

  •  The take away from the takeaway (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Chartreuse Dog

    "And get it right the first time. Nobody is going to be impressed by your "clarifying" statement tomorrow morning."

    True not just for "moral" issues, but every issue. Is this so hard? Hey candidates, listen to Pericles, get elected.

    Roman Catholic by birth---thoroughly confused by life.

    by alasmoses on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 08:40:39 PM PDT

  •  Great diary (0+ / 0-)

    Why is this so hard for our candidates?

  •  Didn't Catch This Before Rescue (5+ / 0-)

    but I can't express enough admiration for your de- and reconstruction of how our pols need to speak.

    I've been so annoyed at the way Democrats communicate, in a clumsy, self-neutralizing manner, so well exemplified by Kerry's 'voting for it before voting against it' debacle. Why was it so hard to boil it down to 'There were two versions of the bill: the Democratic version was paid for; the Republican version was put on the national credit card. I voted for the Democratic version, and against the Republican's.' ANY Red Stater would've understood that!!

    Although it's not my favourite kind of music, I think Democrats and Progressives need to listen to a lot more Country music to get an idea of how to communicate simply, convey noble emotions, and hit the keywords. All things you presented brilliantly, Pericles!

    "You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -Abbie Hoffman

    by Uthaclena on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 10:09:44 PM PDT

  •  Brilliant. (0+ / 0-)

    Now if only we could take certain people and smash their faces against this diary until they understand it. Heh.
  •  god i get drunk (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ScienceMom

    just reading your stuff. it's like a massage that makes you smarter...

    All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

    by SeanF on Mon Mar 19, 2007 at 10:55:09 PM PDT

  •  Republican-lite IMO (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    chemicalresult
    It still seems like a Republican-lite response to me.  Why not just say "I disagree with the General that homosexual acts are immoral?"  LET them picture Ted Haggard cheating on his wife with crystal meth--'cause if that's the first thought they conjure up if Hillary or Obama responds that way then they [most likely] ain't voting for us anyway.  Why are we OBSESSED with flipping these close-minded voters anyway?  The answer is expanding the electorate!  Make it a point to register x number of new voters by 2008.

    That said, the BEST response would've been "homosexual acts are no less nor no more immoral than heterosexual acts." (or something similar)

    •  real Republican lite (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SeanF, Nowhere Man, alasmoses

      is when you give up on liberal values because you think they won't sell. I'm totally against that.

      One reason I'm against it is that I think liberal values are a whole lot more popular than most people believe. But we need to stop ticking off people for no purpose.

      We've been slandered for decades as the anything-goes, no-morals, I-just-want-to-get-elected party. I want to peel that slander away. If people hate us for what we really are, fine, we'll just have to deal with that. But it drives me nuts when people whose values are basically OK don't realize that we share those values.

    •  We're NOT (0+ / 0-)

      But we ARE interested in getting those people who call themselves "moderate". I'm NOT going into a full discussion of Lakoff's "Thinking Points", but to make it succint, we are interested in activating their "liberal" or "progressive" side, if you will.

      Oh, and as for letting them "picture Ted Haggard cheating on his wife with crystal meth" and being obsessed with "flipping these close-minded voters"? We're obsessed with getting our message out, and getting it out in such a way that no one can ever again accuse us, with any serious hope of people believing them, of having no values. Because I, for one, am sick to death of that crap! If we can put a different picture in their head, one more appealing that helps them open up their liberal side and show them we have values just as strong as theirs, wouldn't that be a good thing?

      •  I know (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Kaos Klerik

        I agree I want those moderates.  I agree I want to get our message out but let's not wordsmith that message to death such that it sounds like its trying to be all things to all people.  I am sure no candidate would be scared of saying that segregation is immoral (well, no democratic candidate) but once we talk about torture or gay rights we have to wordsmith our outrage to dial down our outrage as not to offend a potential swing voter.

        I like what Pericles suggests regarding the talking points (to be honest I LOVE his talking points) but the means to get there with the "I respect General Pace's right to his personal moral beliefs" sounds like trangulation to me.  If a candidate used that kind of language I wouldn't be quite sure if she was a true ally of the gay community.  It's true--Hillary, Obama, and Edwards will all be infinitely better for our community than whoever they put up there--but I still am saddened that we may be still living in a time that a candidate is hurting her electoral prospects by standing up boldly and flatly rejecting homophobic values.

  •  Greatr Diary (0+ / 0-)

    Also highly recommended.

    There is a similar discusion going on right now at RockRidge Nation.  While I disagree with much of it, it is grounded in how progressives should talk about their values, and not step on the mines in the minefield.

    I personally believe that if the pols would answer these questions and base their policy decisions on their values, our cause would be much better served.

    You can't govern if you can't win.

    by gatordem on Tue Mar 20, 2007 at 04:11:27 AM PDT

  •  Whether or not homosexualality acts are immoral (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nowhere Man, Timbuk the Second

    is, to me, is irrevelent. If homosexuals are U.S. citizens, then they are entitled to equal protection under the law under the U.S. Constitution. End of story.

    When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

    by rmonroe on Tue Mar 20, 2007 at 04:54:41 AM PDT

  •  The following quote will be taped to my monitor: (0+ / 0-)

    "...liberal elitism. Millions and millions of people expect not just that a liberal will disagree with their views, but that a liberal will look down on them for believing what they believe. They are expecting an insult, so they will hear one if you give them any chance..."

     Thank you for that, Pericles.

    •  Of course... (0+ / 0-)

      for some conservatives out there, no matter what words are spoken, they will be an insult. But that will be because of people like Rush Limbaugh, who would take the example statements above and play only this:

      When public officials speak [cut] on the record in their official capacity, [end cut] they have a responsibility not to substitute their personal opinions for public policy."

      •  the same is true for some liberals (0+ / 0-)

        No matter what words are spoken, they are an insult, a lie, a distortion, etc.  Any explanation, no matter how true, is immediately called a cover-up.

        Hard-core groups of people on both sides have invested so much of their hate and anger at the other side that they are nearly incapable of giving them the benefit of the doubt.  When someone on my 'side' jumps all over a negative (about a liberal) soundbite as solid proof I make an effort to be fair about it; put forth reasonable justifications.  I try to let the facts unfold rather than fill in the missing elements with whatever stereotype fits.  

        I've seen too many people on my side get viciously and loudly smeared by an initial report.  Later, when the whole truth comes out there are no retractions.  The initial impression, no matter how false, is left uncontested and becomes a standard "truth". I've seen this happen so often I can recognise when it's happening to someone on the other 'side'.  

        I have encountered many of the left-wing group in my brief time coming here.  I post a reasonable factual response, backed with sources, only to get a single reply calling me a troll or a disparaging name.

        The only way to counter these groups is to lay out the facts.  Unfortunately there are too few people willing or able to do so on both sides.

        How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could get welfare?

        by Kaos Klerik on Tue Mar 20, 2007 at 03:05:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  2008 elections tag (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peace voter

    Please use "2008 elections" with an "s" instead of "2008 election" - that is the tag with the most use - probably because there will be more than one election in 2008.

    Fixed for this diary.

Permalink | 29 comments