Daily Kos

The More Speech, The Better

Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:01:25 AM PDT

It's good to know that no matter what else may have happened there under new management, RedState.com founder Mike Krempasky has remained on the side of the righteous when it comes to our mutual support of the First Amendment.

As we approach Tuesday's one-year anniversary of the FEC siding with bloggers over the so-called "reform" lobby, Krempasky's interview today on CNN's Reliable Sources with Howie Kurtz sounds exactly like what those on our side of the aisle might note of the Hillary/"1984" ad and whether anonymity is a problem:

KURTZ: What surprised me, Mike Krempasky, when I called the Obama campaign is they were absolutely adamant in saying they didn't know about this, and I have no reason to doubt that that's not true. But they certainly didn't distance themselves from the ad. They kind of had it both ways.

MIKE KREMPASKY, REDSTATE.COM: Well, they did. And you would almost expect them to have to do that.

But I don't necessarily think this is really a bad thing. I mean, look, if it's getting people to, you know, have conversations about politics that weren't having them before, fantastic. And I think the irony there is that it sort of pokes a lot of fun at Hillary's conversation and listening tour, but in fact, you know, two million people saw it, and how many more people talked about it, whether it's reading columns like yours or just having discussions with each other about politics?

KURTZ: And the anonymity doesn't bother you at all? What about an ad that made false charges and we didn't know who put it up?

KREMPASKY: Well, A, I think that anything in this new area of politics that is substantive, does that make specific factual claims, is going to come out a lot quicker than this one did. There's just going to be more of a need for people to know. And in this case, look, the system did work.

Someone put up an anonymous video. It got a lot of attention. And all of the sudden, now we know who it was.

Indeed.  De Vellis got caught because it's pretty much impossible not to want to take credit for a work so widely viewed, and once you tell that one person, as Ben Franklin said, "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead."  As for what it all means, in re YouTube:

KURTZ: ...In a larger sense, Mike Krempasky, have media organizations and the campaigns themselves just lost control of the dialogue to the YouTube culture? This is a powerful thing to be able to make an ad and two million people see it.

KREMPASKY: It's true. And I think Jeff pointed this out earlier in the week.

Two million is a big number, but it's not a big number when we're talking about the kind of audience the campaigns are broadcasting through to, you know, just standard television buys (ph). They have lost a measure of control, but that's actually pretty good.

You know, on one hand, we can't complain that we spend a billion dollars on political ads and then do things that sort of discourage people from making amateur cost-free ads and generating conversation. I think they're both OK and they're both good, and the more speech the better. ...

KURTZ: ... Is this kind of whole thing, the dialogue, the ads, going to diminish the power of television advertising on -- that the campaigns spend zillions on? Because, you know, not everybody is on YouTube.

KREMPASKY: One can only hope. I mean, really...

KURTZ: You think that would be a great thing?

KREMPASKY: I think it would be a fantastic thing.

KURTZ: Why?

KREMPASKY: I think that, you know, anything that gets more people involved at the grassroots level is a positive thing for politics, and, you know, if anything has changed, whether it's blogs, social media, you know, Web video online, to make it less of the purview of the power of a few, then I think that's great for politics.

People-powered politics.  Has a nice ring to it.

  • ::

Tags: fec, youtube, hr 1606, first amendment, Phil de Vellis, Howard Kurtz, Mike Krempasky (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 158 comments

  •  In other news (6+ / 0-)

    HBO's Rome airs its last episode tonight.  Seriously, if you haven't been watching it, get the DVDs this summer and start from season 1, episode one.  Twenty-two hours of the best violence, buddy comedy and history available.

  •  people powered politics (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    CalifSherry, davidkc

    It does have a nice sound. It would make us a true representative republic in that case, wouldn't it.

    I love Ben Franklin: "Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead."  Such a wise and funny man.

    And I can't forget my mom: "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day"

    I'm the person your mother warned you about.

    by Unique Material on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:04:24 AM PDT

    •  *yawn* (0+ / 0-)

      I don't know why TV bobble head are so surprised about a youtube upload. ffs, there are half trilion video in that site and most are more controversial and interesting than that.

      Anybody can tweak a video and upload it to youtube. (or on about other half a dozen video upload service)

      ..I kinda wish somebody paste a naked body onto candidate head and have a dancing banana hopping next to it.

      ...must be slow newsday in TV land.

      Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

      by fugue on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:41:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  re (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Adam B, KingOneEye, blue vertigo, I

    KURTZ: What surprised me, Mike Krempasky, when I called the Obama campaign is they were absolutely adamant in saying they didn't know about this, and I have no reason to doubt that that's not true. But they certainly didn't distance themselves from the ad. They kind of had it both ways.

    He said they didn't do it. So howie wants them to take out ads that say that same thing or what?

    What a dick.

    Thanks for your concern howie.

    "Obama / Steve Holt '08!" - Steve Holt

    by cookiesandmilk on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:07:49 AM PDT

    •  He might have meant... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      CalifSherry

      that they didn't denounce the ad, they only said they were not involved.

      At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

      by Potus2020 on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:12:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  re (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blue vertigo

        Maybe. But it really wasn't not even denounceable IMO.

        It was a hackneyed ripoff of the most famous commerical of all time.

        They prob. thought... "that stupid thing... no we did not have anything to do with it"...

        The dumber it is the less denoucable it needs be IMO.

        "Obama / Steve Holt '08!" - Steve Holt

        by cookiesandmilk on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:15:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Denouncable... (0+ / 0-)

          I don't know if I think it was stupid. Ripoffs can have a lot of effect.

          However, I would tend to agree that it wasn't necessary to denounce the ad.

          At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

          by Potus2020 on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 03:52:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Howard Kurtz is the problem. (6+ / 0-)

      I'm grateful we can all appreciate when Krempasky agrees with us, but he doesn't do that very often so it's hard for me to get excited about him.

      However, Kurtz is a far more dangerous personality that deserves a lot more of our attention than Krempasky.

      "KURTZ: And the anonymity doesn't bother you at all?"

      What an ass. Why doesn't he explain the presence of two anonymous bloggers he cited in his article to bash Pelosi. Those blogs had existed for less than a week (one of them for less than 24 hours, with just one posting), and he won't respond to inquiries about how he managed to stumble onto them when they were not in any search engine listings at the time. And why would he quote from them after seeing them and how barren they were of content? This was his non-responsive explanation:

      Aside from being creepy, that doesn't explain how he found them or why he thought they were quote-worthy.
      .

      • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

      by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:41:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It is the job of the media to check governments- (4+ / 0-)

    even ones they like.

    Screw Redstate and FOX. How insulting it is they exist.

    Hillary did not vote on FISA amendments strengthening civil liberties.

    by LandSurveyor on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:08:30 AM PDT

  •  "Declined to go batshit crazy" (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jon Meltzer, The Gryffin

    Adam, Krempasky has always been batshit crazy. And short of a radical breakthrough in psychotropic pharmaceuticals that can wipe everything he believes out of this guy's brain, he always will be.

    If the First Amendment SERVES HIS PURPOSES, fine. The minute it doesn't, it's expendable. Lower your expectations of him, please. Somewhere down in the lowest sewer possible. He's floating near the bottom, looking out for himself, his fucking Republican party, and their rape of America. The First Amendment is not an ideal to him. It's a tool.

    Why you trusted that guy, or felt you needed him, to get something done with regard to the FEC is still a mystery.

    Why you feel the need to front-page huge paragraphs about that Limbaugh-licking asswipe is absolutely unexplainable.

    Get this shit off the front page, someone. Krempasky doesn't need the hype. We can do better.

    My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

    by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:10:42 AM PDT

    •  Show me evidence (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      CalifSherry, Jay Elias, xanthippe2, I

      If the First Amendment SERVES HIS PURPOSES, fine. The minute it doesn't, it's expendable.

      When?

    •  troll-worthy (5+ / 0-)

      Adding "mike krempasky asshole" as a tag?  C'mon.

      •  Agreed. (5+ / 0-)

        If you can't justify it in a comment, it's not a tag by any means.  It's just disruption.

      •  Cmon yourself (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Jon Meltzer, The Gryffin

        Why is this worthy of mention on Daily Kos? On the front page no less?

        He's gone from a dying rival blog, a blog that you were banned from and a blog that has treated all of us at DailyKos with contempt, and you drag his smelly corpse out to praise him?

        Come on yourself, Adam. This guy's a fucking enemy. He thinks of you and Markos and all of us enemies. Do you genuinely not know that? You should.

        Why is he your best buddy? Why does he even cross your mind now that you're done with using him? Why not treat him like the GOP vermin that he is, instead of being so easily bought by his 'work with you'?

        By the way, the characterization of his work with you as 'for free speech' instead of being about Markos' finances being at risk is a concern of mine that should probably be aired out. This blog per se was not at stake with that bill. OUR speech was not threatened by that bill. The ability of Markos to keep his business organization and  finances, finances that fund this blog, intact and unscrutinized was at stake. That doesn't sound like free speech. It sounds like money.

        My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

        by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:26:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And once again... (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          CalifSherry, Adam B, ptmflbcs

          ...you explain to us all why you're totally off-base and wrong.

          Republicans are supposed to be the opposition, not the enemy.  

          The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

          by Jay Elias on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:28:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You need to grow up (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Jon Meltzer, The Gryffin, PhantomFly

            and realize that opposition is a nice idea for tea parties and Sunday school picnics, but Republicans aren't at the same tea party or Sunday school picnics.

            Republicans play dirty. Playing dirty is not an 'opponent.' It's someone who wants to do you harm.

            They have publicly called us Democrats traitors and collaborators with terrorists.

            That's who you're calling opposition. What do you think they call us? Opposition? Not hardly.

            I have a better and more accurate term for who and what they are, and I will use it.

            Further, I might just use some of their tactics against them.

            In the end, if they're out of power, and we're in, then you can say "Thank you" and I'll graciously accept it. If not, then it won't make much difference how civil we are, we're done as a party and as a country.

            In the meantime, sip your tea and let people who are willing to deal with truths and realities do the heavy lifting.

            My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

            by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:35:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well... (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Adam B, ptmflbcs

              ....it isn't "they" who did that; individual Republicans did that.

              So what are we supposed to do?  Round them up and put them in reeducation camps?  Or hope like hell that more and more, people like Mike emerge as the new Republican leadership?

              They will never be "done", not as a party or as an ideology.  This is a representative Republic.  Winning one election doesn't mean that Democrats will become the rulers of America.  So get used to the idea that others don't disagree with you, and not every one of 47% of the electorate are Ann Coulter.

              The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

              by Jay Elias on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:38:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The horror, the horror. (0+ / 0-)

                Or hope like hell that more and more, people like Mike emerge as the new Republican leadership?

                Oh dear God.

                Let's just say that we'd think of Bush 43's reign of terror as 'The Golden Years.'

                My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:34:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  You're using a very right-wing line of reasoning. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              FishOutofWater

              You started out criticizing a specific individual, and now in defense of that, you're damning an entire movement.

              I agree with you that the Republic Party is playing dirty and have been calling us (and continue to call us) traitors.

              I do not agree with you that you know what the hell you're talking about with regard to this one individual.

              •  Excuse me? (0+ / 0-)

                Am I not supposed to damn the Republican movement and its members?

                Is that not, in some part, the raison d'etre of this blog?

                This individual is Republican. Ask him yourself. He will gladly admit same, with delight and pride.

                That says a lot to me. What the label 'Republican' didn't say, Mike himself filled in for me with many, many posts at RedState.

                My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:31:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  If it's helpful for you to use a boogeyman (4+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              StevenJoseph, ptmflbcs, Jay Elias, I

              I'm happy to fire off some snarky crack about the unlikehood of seeing any liberals at any such Sunday school picnic because you're a bunch of Godless heathens.

              Except, it's not true. But would it make you feel better? I am to please.

              •  Someone upthread said that you banned... (0+ / 0-)

                ...Adam from RedState.

                Is that true?
                .

                • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

                by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:50:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Adam himself stated he was banned (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  taylormattd, The Gryffin

                  from Redstate.

                  See his January diary to which he linked above.

                  Did Mike have his finger on the button? Don't know. But Redstate did, if one believes Adam, ban him.

                  My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                  by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:55:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Congratulations (0+ / 0-)

                    You've stumbled upon a small truth that happened to be right in front of you. Adam was, indeed, banned from RedState. But not by me - and quite the contrary.

                    Now, I don't expect you'll believe me - but by all means, ask Adam.

                    Although, I suspect that if Adam places himself in anything resembling alignment with me - he'll quickly make it onto your enemies list, long as it must be.

                    •  I think (3+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      KingOneEye, StevenJoseph, The Gryffin

                      vertigo blue is wrong to go semi-apeshit (sorry vb) over Adam posting this story, especially given that your alliance on the blog regulation issue was truly helpful.

                      But that doesn't mean he has no valid points regarding republicans having gleefully declared war upon everyone to the left James Baker. And it's not like "traitor" isn't an epithet regularly hurled over at your blog.

                      John McCain, 100 years in Iraq "fine with me"

                      by taylormattd on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:12:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  An inconvenient truth, I'd say. (0+ / 0-)

                      Adam was, indeed, banned from RedState.

                      Adam, banned by the opposing blog, brings your name up here to praise you as a free speech advocate.

                      You are here posting away, even getting recs, whereas civil and courteous (as I'm sure Adam was) opponents are disallowed at Redstate.

                      MOST ironic, I'd say.

                      My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                      by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:59:22 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  RedState banned me. (0+ / 0-)

                    Mike no longer runs RedState.  Mike did not ban me.  I did not ask Mike or RedState for reinstatement.

                    •  Still, the irony is pungent. (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      blue vertigo

                      Mike posts here freely. And he is still affiliated with RedState.

                      Don't you think it would be a good faith move if he were to have removed the ban, whether you asked or not, before he comes here to defend free speech?

                      • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

                      by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:51:30 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  That's the simple view (0+ / 0-)

                        The more complicated view is that site owners have the First Amendment right to edit their sites and allow the types of users and topics they prefer, there and here, and to deny their right to do that impinges on the more meta-level free speech these sites represent.  

                        •  So is Mike Krempasky a (0+ / 0-)

                          free speech advocate or is he something more like a 'privately-run blog speech free of political campaign reporting requirements' advocate, as his actions would suggest?

                          You scream his hosannas in respect to the First Amendment, but at most, what he has stood up for is blogs not falling under a certain campaign finance law.

                          If you don't understand the huge difference, then that is pathetic. If you do know the difference, then your post here has conflated one with the other and managed to praise  someone for something he definitely has not earned.

                          My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                          by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:04:09 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  He's a free speech advocate (0+ / 0-)

                            And part of the free speech that he supports, and that I support, is the right of site owners to decide what kind of speech is appropriate on their own sites.

                            And, again, he wasn't in charge of RedState when this occurred.

                            •  I would say that he is a free expression advocate (0+ / 0-)

                              He, and RedState, certainly have the right to edit the content of the site so that it represents their views. That is free expression.

                              Free speech would allow the views of anyone who comes to express themselves.

                              I don't think it's fair to say that banning speech is representative of free speech, though it may be representative of an individual or organizational expression of a specific point of view.

                              Based on their banning of views that diverge from their own, they are not proponents of free speech.

                              • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

                              by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:31:43 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  Hmm. (0+ / 0-)

                                It's a dichotomy I've never given much thought to, and I don't know how tenable it is.  Because who really wants to hear what everyone has to say?

                                That I only allow Harper's and The Atlantic in my house, but not The Weekly Standard, does not make me unsupportive of free speech.

                                •  Well, your house is not... (0+ / 0-)

                                  ...a publisher and is not publicly accessible. Unless my assumption is wrong. If so, what's your address and what do you have in your refrigerator (I'm starving)?

                                  Also,you ask, "who really wants to hear what everyone has to say?" Umm...I think you do. Why else would you create an account at RedState and read and respond to them? And I'm with you on that. I want to hear all views (and let's not let this devolve into semantics about, "Even LaRouche or Manson?") I even watch Fox (mostly so that I make these).

                                  • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

                                  by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 02:03:51 PM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  •  it wasn't a great analogy (0+ / 0-)

                                    But re blogs, do you want to hear what pornographers have to say, because they'd love the right to post in the comments here.

                                    Moreover, that I visit RedState does not mean I also visit StormFront.

                                    •  You're avoiding my question! (1+ / 0-)

                                      What's in your damn refrigerator? I'm still hungry. Oh hell, I'm going to get some lunch.

                                      I will note that, as this discussion became more abstract, it veered from my original point which had to do with Mike coming here to pontificate about free speech when you are banned on RedState. I still find that ironic. You are NOT StormFront, or Manson, although I've never seen a picture of you and LaRouche together.....Hmm.....

                                      • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

                                      by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 02:27:22 PM PDT

                                      [ Parent ]

                              •  Well, let's think this through (0+ / 0-)

                                You have the right to run your blog the way you want to with your ideas, your thoughts, your intellectual content.

                                That's YOUR free speech.

                                Guests to your blog have to go by your rules.  If I had a blog, I would want some control over it.

                                If not, if anyone could post anything there, it would get overrun with porn spam and other crazy crap totally eating up my bandwidth.

                                Their free speech doesn't override my free speech. They can have and use their own forums to use their free speech to post their porn spam and crap.

                                DK is run the way Markos wants it to be. We play on his playground according to his notions of what's allowable and what's not. That's why there's not porn spam here.

                                Blogs being wide open to ANYTHING is rare, and I suppose that would be the best example of free speech on the web. But there aren't any.

                                Blogs tossing out trolls is the rule, and Redstate has defined Democrats as de facto trolls.  

                                My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                                by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 01:53:51 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

        •  every blog was at risk (5+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          taylormattd, StevenJoseph, ptmflbcs, jmonch, I

          If you fundraised on behalf of campaigns, the reformers wanted you regulated as a PAC.  If you spent $1000/two years for server and other costs, you were going to be regulated.  Etc.

        •  3/25/07 blue vertigo (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          blue vertigo

          When the devil does something right, you should praise him.  It might encourage him to do more things right.  Before you know it, you might have another David Brock on your hands.  :)

          Republicans and conservatives vary in, for lack of better words, "badness" and "evilness".  I believe that most people in the GOP are merely mislead, not inherently bad.  

          In general, the larger the group of people, the more basically good people you can find in a group.  Of course the converse is also true.  The larger the group, the more basically bad people you can find in a group too.  But a few people do not define a group.  That George W. Bush is such an incredibly incompetent idiot does not define the entire Republican Party.  If it did, they would rarely win an election.

          So, here's to any time those on the right do the right thing.  Cheers to you.  And when you are ready to stop drinking the right wing KoolAid and instead want to strap on some Birkenstocks and have a bowl of granola with us, we'll be waiting. :)

          Steven Joseph :)

          "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."--Evelyn Beatrice Hall. "Hide the troll!"--StevenJoseph

          by StevenJoseph on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:13:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Stop and think. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Jon Meltzer

            This guy is not a random Republican picked out of a crowd wherein we would be free to speculate that the randomly chosen Republican might be a moderate, might be reasonable, might not be a bigot, might be okay.

            This guy is a Republican operative who ran a blog denouncing everything we cherish. He is paid to defeat our ideals, message, actions and candidates.

            I'm sorry, he gets no benefit of the doubt. He is, by definition, not doing the right thing. He's doing as much wrong as he can, daily, with zeal, for money.

            No granola for him.

            My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

            by blue vertigo on Mon Mar 26, 2007 at 04:27:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  cranky much? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      I

      Or is pulling stuff out of your arse just a hobby?

      •  Speak of the devil (3+ / 2-)

        Recommended by:
        Jon Meltzer, taylormattd, The Gryffin
        Hidden by:
        ben masel, MTmofo

        See what Adam brought us?

        Someone deal with this rubbish.

        If this is what DailyKos wants to do - praise the likes of this creep - then we need to rethink some things.

        My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

        by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:30:17 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Dude, if you want us to "deal with" (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000

          "this creep" then please explain what you meant by your original comment.

          •  I meant what I said. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            The Gryffin

            And the only way I want to 'deal with' Mike Krempasky is to not see Adam falling all over himself to call him a Freedom Fighter on the front page of a Democratic blog.

            I mean the guy no harm.

            My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

            by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:01:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It's a free blogosphere (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          taylormattd, wiscmass, kestrel9000

          Want to leave this site and concentrate your attention on others?  Go ahead.  

        •  What "Adam" brought us? (7+ / 0-)

          By UID, Mike has been here for about 75,000 people before you got here.

          I think that aptly demonstrates that Adam cannot be held responsible for Mike's presence here.

          The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

          by Jay Elias on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:32:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, therein hangs a tale (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            The Gryffin

            but I will not be relating it here and now.

            Ask McJoan.

            Adam brought Mike's name up here, and poof, after a multiple-month absence, and after explicitly saying that he was 'done' with DailyKos after the Redstater got totally busted for being a plagiarist, lo and behold, here's Mikey.

            Yuck.

            My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

            by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:03:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I said I was "done with DailyKos"? (0+ / 0-)

              Huh? If I've misread your comment, I apologize.

              •  You read it right. (0+ / 0-)

                It stuck in my mind. The date of the statement does not.  

                I believe your comment about "being done" with DK was made immediately after the kid who was going to blog for the Washington Post got in a bad jam.

                "I'm done with [Daily Kos]" or "with them" or a phrase just about like that.

                It might be that you meant done with us at DK on that particular issue only as opposed to a blanket 'I'm done'.

                :::shrug::: So you're not done. You were, at least for a time, once.

                Whatever.

                What do you want from us here? You've got Adam singing your praises and people ripping me to shreds because I dared say you're a Republican operative creep. Is your ego full yet?

                My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:30:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  So the phrase... (0+ / 0-)

                  ""I'm done with [Daily Kos]" or "with them" or a phrase just about like that."

                  stuck in your mind so much you can't quite remember it.

                  Nonetheless, I don't know what I said. I might have said something along those lines, although I can't see tagging DailyKos. Certainly was an emotional time on our side...but if you dig out the comment, I'd be happy to address is directly.

                  •  I did indeed remember it. (0+ / 0-)

                    and I stated the gist of it accurately, if not verbatim.

                    I didn't want to err and represent that you said "I'm done with them" if you said "I'm done with that" or "I'm now done with those guys" or another slight variation.

                    As you said, it was an emotional time for you, and understandably so.

                    If you want to say you didn't say it, well, go ahead.

                    I am not going to go look up the date and dig through the archives at RedState for a link.

                    The fact that I don't bother to go root around and find it doesn't make me a liar, or even wrong. It just makes me uninterested in the research or in proving anything to anyone.

                    My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                    by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:41:09 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  But to answer your question (0+ / 0-)

                  (I apologize for not putting it in the same comment)

                  The last thing on earth I'd want to see would be you troll rated off Kos, or quieted in anyway. After all, you're the best argument I can make these days why my guys should be in office.

                  •  Oh Mike. You don't actually want to talk POLITICS (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Jon Meltzer, The Gryffin

                    because 'your guys' have fucked up badly.

                    Evidently, most American people feel 'your guys' in office are criminals, liars and/or doing a shitty job. Approval in the toilet.

                    You don't want to talk about that, do you?

                    I don't think that much of what I say about YOU really matters in the scheme of things. Hate to break it to you, Mike, but this blog is about much bigger and better things than your ego being stroked by poor misguided Adam.

                    That said, I take responsibility for what I say and do. I don't like you or what you stand for or do. I don't like 'your guys'. I don't like 3300+ US troops dead in Iraq for lies.

                    So what do you think is really going to matter to the American people? Me getting snarky on your ass or the fact our whole country is getting its ass whipped in a war based on lies?

                    Your problem is, Mike, is that you and 'your guys' don't have any answers for those problema and flinging poo at Democrats is your answer for America.

                    Our strength as Democrats is that we're going to bring all those answers forward for America. Flinging poo on you is just a little Sunday afternoon distraction for me while I wait for the washer to buzz that it's done with its cycle.

                    My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                    by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:51:16 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, Mike, you're probably right about this: (3+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    taylormattd, ben masel, blue vertigo

                    After all, you're the best argument I can make these days why my guys should be in office.

                    "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!" McCain doesn't need a presidency. He needs a Playstation.

                    by The Gryffin on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:56:17 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Hey Blue... (0+ / 0-)

              I appreciate your passion in this fight and your recognition that our "opponents" often fight dirty, but may I suggest that your anger is overstated here because, in the big picture, MK is not much of a factor. Of the two people engaged in the interview above, Kurtz is far more dangerous. How about some passion over that?
              .

              • • Get Your John McCain - NOPE T-Shirts & Stickers

              by KingOneEye on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:19:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Howie Kurtz (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Jon Meltzer

                really really sucks. That's always worth saying.

                It's just shocking to see Adam go out of his way to praise someone who's the operative equivalent of Kurtz.

                MK didn't need to be a front page story. It's a bad choice for who/what this blog is supposed to be.

                My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:32:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  blue... (9+ / 0-)

          I'm not sure exactly why you're so convinced I crawled out from underneath a pile of brimstone last week, but you're welcome to that opinion.

          But at the end of the day - I happen to think that the existence of dKos is actually a good thing - not because I think your politics are anything by 90% crazy, but because more activists in any system is a step forward. Certainly beats leaving the process to the wealthy and powerful alone.

        •  Ok, I'll deal with the rubbish, (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          kestrel9000

          Not you, just your post.

          This is a test of the Emergency Free Speech System.
          This is only a test.
          If this had been an actual emergency, I'd already be locked up.

          by ben masel on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:33:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  And I'll help. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            kestrel9000

            I don't appreciate BV personalizing the issue.

            "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know) Newly added-You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams. Dara Torres-Beijing Olympics

            by MTmofo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:46:39 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I request... (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Jon Meltzer, blue vertigo

              ...we give BV a break, cut him some slack -- whatever.
              I myself was awfully angry at seeing Kossacks "playing nice" with people who did not deserve the favor. (IMHO)
              Despite some lapses in decorum, I thought BV was brave and correct in standing his ground.
              Please allow practice to aid the perfection of debate.

              No chicken should follow John McCain across that bloody road!

              by MT Spaces on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 03:04:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thank you. (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Jon Meltzer, MT Spaces

                And I'm a woman, btw.

                I think I probably said some stupid crap during all of this, but then, I don't like this guy swaggering in here like he owns the place.

                I don't like that we don't recognize him for what he is and show him the door. This guy is an operative. He's a smaller less potent version of Karl Rove. He deserves NO benefit of the doubt.

                I don't like the fact Adam and Markos owe him.

                I don't like the fact people act like I'm a criminal for thinking that this blog community is not improved by the presence of a Republican operative.

                My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

                by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 05:05:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sorry for the mixup! (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  blue vertigo

                  I thought about saying he/she, but MY blood was boiling too, and I wanted to set my thoughts down while I was still coherent.

                  BTW -- I thought you did well by standing up for your points in the face of uncharacteristic dismissals and some surprising pilings-on.

                  Oh yeah -- in reference to my comment on the main thread, REAL scorpions actually belong under the rocks -- eating Red State vermin and freelance propagandists who thrive there.

                  No chicken should follow John McCain across that bloody road!

                  by MT Spaces on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 08:42:00 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Jeebus... (0+ / 0-)

      ...I think you've mistaken the man in the mirror for the asswipe in the room.

      The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

      by Jay Elias on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:25:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        The Gryffin

        that people falling all over themselves to praise a Republican operative who would delightfully shit on our graves is a desperately sad indictment of Daily Kos.

        My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

        by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:53:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm quite sure... (0+ / 0-)

          ...that he wouldn't shit on my grave.  

          Hell, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't even shit on yours.

          But I'm becoming more and more sure that my status as a dedicated libertarian Democrat would have me on your enemies list in a heartbeat too.  

          The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

          by Jay Elias on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 11:57:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I don't (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Jon Meltzer, The Gryffin

          necessarily disagree with you. I do think, however, that it was very useful to have krempasky as an ally in this blog regulation battle.

          To everyone else who has understandibly reacted negatively to blue vertigo's comments, I would ask that you carefully consider how many recommends you give mkrempasky.

          Just because you disagree with vb doesn't mean we should make krempasky a TU.

          John McCain, 100 years in Iraq "fine with me"

          by taylormattd on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 12:01:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't take that on faith. (0+ / 0-)

            I do think, however, that it was very useful to have krempasky as an ally in this blog regulation battle.

            Nobody has ever demonstrated one iota of his value in accomplishing anything. Even Adam has not come forward and said "But for Mike doing [whatever], we would not have accomplished this."

            It was probably of some value to have a 'bipartisan' face, but exactly how much did that have to do with the actual result?

            Perhaps that's not something that can be quantified.

            My choices: 1. Obama. 1. Edwards. ... 9,999,999. Hillary.

            by blue vertigo on Sun Mar 25, 2007 at 05:12:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  You've been asked several times, (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Adam B

          by several people, to justify your assertion that this individual is in favor of the First Amendment only when it works to the benefit of the Republican Party.  If you can't justify that, you are just making shit up.

          Please don't resort to the defense, "He's a Republican, I KNOW he does it."  If he does it, it should be easy enough for you to show us proof.

          •  I don't have to justify my opinion (0+ / 0-)

            I stated it's my opinion and you have twice demanded that I make some sort of explanation or excuse for it.

            The premise itself is flawed. Mike has never even defended the First Amendment