Daily Kos

Rat Poison

Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 07:23:42 PM PDT

I know about rat poison because a crazy goat hearder killed my dog with it.  Mr. R was in many ways the perfect dog.  We found him as a stray at about six months.  He like other stray dogs that survive that long had an incredibly affable disposition.  He loved everyone and every creature.  He just wanted to play.  He was the kind of dog that wanted to make friends with every single one of earth's creatures he met.  At one party I turned around to find him with his head in the baby stroller that was hosting some our good friends' six month old.  I immediately thought, "Oh God, I hope he isn't eating the baby."  I rushed toward them to make sure everything was okay and found the two of them licking and laughing.  The would dog lick the baby's face and the baby laughed and the dog encouraged by the baby's happy response licked again - again the giggles and laughter from the baby - it was very cool.  It was a heart-breakingly sweet exchange.

The dog spent most of his time with my sig other whose biz was housed on a few acres of land by the sea.  Mr. R. was a mutt, but predominantly a Rhodesian Ridgeback.  As such he did have a bit of the "lion hunter" in him that was bred into those dogs, but his responses to encounters with other creatures interestingly corollated with their relative strength and aggressive disposition.  So, a teeny tiny baby illicited only a sweet response, but a big angry dog would provoke him to protect us, other creatures and himself.  So all of a sudden on this private land, a heard of goats moved in without permission.  Goats and dogs often have a tenuous relationship with one another.  People who keep goats often don't like dogs because they threaten their livestock.  Understandable.  Of course, when one is squatting with one's goats, it is a bit cheeky to be insistant that all previous inhabitants of said land make way for the goats especially if one is not paying for rights to the land in question.

So the goat hearder showed up one day and said that he would kill the dog if it wasn't taken off the land.  The sig other wasn't around when that happened.  His assistant was confronted.  The thing about Mr. R was that he had saved the goats on at least three occasions that we witnessed from being attacked by other dogs.  When another dog strayed into the area, Mr. R. would judge the situation and protect the goats from intruders.  His interactions with the goats when there were no threats was as sweet as pie.  He would go and hang out with them like he was their guardian angel.  So the assistant didn't really know the culture well enough to respond appropriately when confronted unfortunately.  None of this is his fault or should be construed as such, but he didn't understand the importance of the threat that the goat hearder delivered.  He didn't understand the importance of telling the goat hearder that if anything ever happened to the dog, it wouldn't matter who really did it the goat hearder would be on the hook.  The culture was different from his.  These are not the kinds of conversations we have in North American cities that often.  He could not have known.

About two months later, I was at a luncheon (that I really didn't want to attend, but had to even though all I wanted to do that day was spend the day at the beach with my dog) when one of our friends received a call.  I knew in my gut that it was bad news.  I even knew it was my sig other.  People whispered and I tried to ignore it thinking that it might go away if I did.

No one wanted to tell me that Mr. R. had died this incredibly violent death as a result of rat poison being spread all across our land.  Rat poison as I found out is quite possibly the most cruel and inhumane way for any creature to die.  It gives the victim have unbelievably horrible convulsions.  Torturous convulsions.  Gonzales, Bush and Rumsfeld would love it.  It was one of the greatest heart-breaking moments of my life.  I promise there have been many others, but this was so wrong because he was so completely defenseless.

Mr. Sig. Other curled up on the sofa for days in a state of depression.  I could not.  My response to death and injustice is to figure out how to stop it from happening again.  So while Mr. Sig Other sort of moved in and out of consciencousness on the sofa with the TV baring I surfed the internet to understand what had happened.  I read every study I could find even though I was on dial up at the time.

What I learned during that time motivated me to write a letter to the editors of the local papers because what the goat hearder had done had put all of our lives in jeopardy.  I learned that small children who weighed the same or fewer than the 60 lbs. that Mr. R did could land up dead from waterborne exposure to the rat poison that the goat hearder scattered around the property.  Rat poison is deadly for people too. It is a weight volume thing, but a toddler could have been killed by the amound of rat poision that killed Mr. R.  If enough was dropped into a pond of water, a small child would not have to ingest it to end up dead.   Becuse the culture in that place was not terribly sympathetic to dogs, I focused on the disgusting nature of the death process and how humans could be subjected to it in my LTE.  But regardless of whether the culture was sympathetic to dogs or not, I felt it was important to warn people that this practice was endangering all of us.

I have all of the links to my research on another computer and I am frankly too tired to recreate, transfer, update that research tonight.  Forgive me.  If you can't take my word for it and accept that rat poison is deadly for people and animals, I am sorry.  It has been a long day, but I felt the need to tell this story because if we have rat poision in our food chain we are in trouble.

So now today we find out that we may be importing wheat from China that is contaminated with rat poison.  Frankly, when I read the headline on dKos this evening the wind was knocked out of me.  Rat poison in any food regarless of who the consumers are is completely unacceptable.  Can we please get back to the olden days when our food was properly regulated by our government?

One thing that I encourage everyone to do is to research poison control and response.  Both for your family members and your pets.  They may benefit from your study and preparedness one day.  It turns out that we might have been able to at least give Mr. R. a much better shot at survival had we known about using hydrogen peroxide in the first few minutes.

He was the best.  I have always thought that he was the kinda good guy whose appearance on earth might help the rest of us out.  Hopefully, Mr. R. will inspire you to take the time to understand how to identify and respond to poison if you are ever unlucky enough to encounter it in your lifetime.

Tags: Pets, Rat Poison (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 27 comments

    •  Sadly, I'm not stunned at all. It's like the (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      inclusiveheart
      Pinto, when Ford calculated how much the company would make versus how much it would pay out to the families of people burned to death in their cars. The only difference, I suppose, was that the Pinto came out during a time when public opinion would comdemn Ford's actions instead of, like now, treating it as the inevitable exception to the otherwise pristine workings of the "free" market.
      •  In the Pinto you had to be hit in order for it to (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        VetGrl
        be dangerous.  With rat poison you are talking danger no matter how you cut it.  It is very, very bad stuff.
        •  That doesn't change the calculation... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Kimberley, inclusiveheart
          If we're importing stuff with rat poison it's because the decision was made that the profit from sales would offset the payments to the families of the dead and injured.
          •  My response comes from the fact that rat (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            VetGrl, OHdog
            poison is a deadly substance and very difficult to combat.  The "chances" so to speak are not "low" as the Pinto crowd could argue.  Getting into a Pinto did not mean certain death or a near death experience in the same way that rat poison actually does. I need to do the "Part II" of this diary where I go back and find all of the sources and studies that I cited in the LTE at that time to fully ilustrate what danger there is.  If you are exposed to rat poison and your body weight is low enough and you are exposed to enough rat poison you will die.  If you are exposed to small amounts over time, you may die.  It is either injurious or a killer no matter what.  As I said, I was stunned that this poison was allowed into our food chain. My local news is just now describing some horrible stuff about what the animals are going through.
            •  Hope you see this, inclusiveheart (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              inclusiveheart

              I'm not disagreeing with you at all or trying to compare the danger. Rather, I sought only to point out, via the Pinto example, that for the sake of profit corporate heads will knowingly put dangerous products into the stream of commerce figuring that it's cheaper to pay the plaintiffs than to make the product safe. The Pinto always springs to mind in this kind of scenario because the consequences of the design flaw were so startling and documents unearthed in the litigation showed it would have cost something like $20-30 (in 1970s dollars) to make it safer, but Lee Iacocca, then head of Ford, refused to make the change.

              From your responses it seems as if I gave the impression of attempting to minimize your point. I suppose that's the downside of this medium, where there's no tone, inflection or body language, but only words in black and white. And in this case, I don't think my written words properly conveyed my message, which was intended to bolster, not minimize or contradict, what you had to say.

              •  No I know you aren't disagreeing and I totally (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                VetGrl

                get why you thought of the Pinto.  You offered me an "opportunity" (as I see it) to go a little deeper about why this situation is so frightening to me.

                I had a lot of time to think about what that event meant after it happened with my dog and sort of concluded that rat poison = human poison and therefore probably shouldn't even be distributed at all because it was so hard to figure out when one might encounter it if people used it.  

                Your comment allowed me to articulate that aspect of this problem - so I thought it was a great comment.  I hope you don't think that I didn't like it.  I believe that conversation - socratic dialogue - is a great thing because we are able to peel back the onion as it were.  You were not minimizing - you were offering a good parallel and raising a good point about the weirdness of corporate malfeasance and I appreciated your comments.

                I was tired last night and the paragraph break thing was driving me nuts so I know I failed to communicate my appreciation for your participation in the discussion.

                So now I will :) - Thank you :)  Best.

                •  That's good to know (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  inclusiveheart

                  And I'll look forward to your Part II.  Your story, the Pinto, the Dalkon Shield and far too many others need to be told because it often seems the public generally has forgotten why we have government regulation and oversight. Greed is not, in fact, good and the market does not, in fact, keep capitalism's dark side in check.

    •  If this government won't protect mine workers or (5+ / 0-)

      our military with proper training and safety measures, what chance do our pets have?  I've had dogs my whole life and I've met very few of them that I didn't like.

      ", syrup ,..., shit ,..., hotcakes." Meteor Blades
      John McCain

      by JugOPunch on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 07:39:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But it isn't about pets. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        slksfca
        Exposure to rat poison for humans can be deadly too.  The thing is that if it is in a puddle of water and the concentration is high enough it can kill your kid.  Or if your kid poaches food from your cat or dog bowls (and they don't have to be weird to do this) you can have not only a pet but a child getting sick.  This situation is really dangerous.
  •  And can we also... (10+ / 0-)

    Can we please get back to the olden days when our food was properly regulated by our government?
    ... get back to the days when our food was grown safely, sanely, sustainably, and locally? Not enough of it is.

    John McCain: Getting Terrorists off America's Lawn since 1880

    by pat208 on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 07:27:17 PM PDT

  •  Bless Mr. R (7+ / 0-)

    I am so deeply saddened by this diary, inclusiveheart.  Peace to you.

    1-20-09 The Darkness Ends "Where cruelty exists, law does not." ~ Alberto Mora

    by noweasels on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 07:28:18 PM PDT

    •  His good little heart cannot be injured by (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      VetGrl, noweasels, slksfca, godislove, jayden
      the crazy goat hearder anymore. I am serious and have been since those sad days after his death about making sure that people understand just how dangerous rat poison is to all of us not just our pets.  I read the story tonight and kind of freaked out because little kids who are close to their animals (as I was with mine) often share food with them; play in the food with them; and even if some people have no sympathy for the animals involved here, they should be really ANGRY THAT AGRICULTURE AND THE FDA WOULD ALLOW ANY FOODSTUFFS INTO THI COUNTRY THAT IS POISONED WITH RAT POISON.  This is a very serious public health danger and children are at risk.
  •  MOney (3+ / 0-)

    Budget cuts by the Bushites are the excuse that's given for cutting the number of USDA inspectors in food production plants when we know it's really to allow shady practices that increase the bottom line.

    Personal Freedoms: Born 1215. Wounded 2001. Died 2006. Resurrected: 2009

    by OHdog on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 08:37:10 PM PDT

  •  damn. poison. heartbreak. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart, Lashe

    lost one of my dogs many years ago to poison.
    i remember standing there when she'd died, sobbing my heart out, asking: where did she go? where did she go?

  •  Why are cat food companies (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart, slksfca

    importing wheat gluten from China??  The U.S. is a major exporter of wheat, isn't it?
    Well, Chinese wheat gluten must be cheaper.  And that's all that matters to many of these companies.
    And the method they use to test these foods is to feed them to cats and dogs at their facilities.  A number of those poor test animals died in this case. Can't the companies hire technicians to monitor the ingredients and make sure poison isn't put into their pet food? Do they have to kill more animals?  
    Inclusiveheart, I'm so sorry you lost your beloved dog. Mr. R sounds wonderful -- he obviously was much loved and had a happy life. It's so tragic it was cut short.  
    Hugs ...

    •  Factory Is In Canada I Think (4+ / 0-)

      Suppliying 90 or more companies.

      Although Canada too is a wheat producer.

      Who the hell knows what a company consists of any more, beyond a get rich quick scheme full of legal plausible deniability.

      And where in hell "is" a company these days?

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 10:20:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The question of what a company is has (0+ / 0-)

        really been bothering me particularly with this story.  I have been a fan of Hills products for a long time and now I come to find out that they don't even make the food that they sell under their label.  That really bugs me.  Seems like no one really stands behind their products anymore.

        •  There are better foods out there these days (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          inclusiveheart

          I fed Hills for many years, but in recent years there are super-premium foods that have gone beyond Science Diet in organic, natural, holistic products that avoid some questionable ingredients in the older brands.  
          Two I particularly like are Wellness and Nature's Variety.  The latter recently came out with a food called Raw Instinct -- the dry cat food emphasizes animal proteins and fat, without grains or gluten. The Nature's Variety dry foods have a "bio-coating" sprayed on the kibble after the latter is heated, thus restoring nutrients lost in the heating process.
          www.naturesvariety.com
          You can read about Wellness at www.omhpet.com. It uses human-grade ingredients and is excellent.
          Both sites can tell you the closest places where you can buy their foods.

      •  No kidding, where is a company? (0+ / 0-)

        I bought some American-run mutual funds in 1980 and wanted to sell them 20 years later.  Couldn't find my records (never throw out investment records!) for tax purposes. The mutual fund had gone through so many changes of ownership and name over the years, it was impossible to get a clue about who I could possibly contact. In the end it was a German company, I think, whatever that means.  
        That's just one example of what you're saying, Gooserock.  It's all online now. Shell games. Offshore accounts.  Tax avoidance.  
        I call my local health clinic and am talking with someone in Bangladesh.
        And yes, Canada is indeed a big wheat producer -- so if this wheat gluten was imported from China, shame.  China is hardly known for strict standards in such things.

  •  Correction: Why are pet food companies (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart
  •  uh, if rat poison can get in dog food then.. (4+ / 0-)

    what assurance do whe have that rat poison can't get in people food?

    and why is it that no one in the media seems to be concerned with this?

  •  Are There Multiple Rat Poisons? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart

    A toxicologist caller to Ed Schultz today said this particular toxin is used in low dose as an anti cancer agent. It works by interfering with cell reproduction.

    For that reason, it also interferes with fetal growth.

    This means that there could be a lot of birth defects in offspring of pets that would have been pregnant during exposure but not have had enough toxin to show symptoms.

    One more dimension to the problem.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 10:19:00 PM PDT

  •  Rat Poison is weapon of retribution in China (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart, Lashe

    It's widely available and has been used in many ways to get even as well as for suicides to escape rural peasant life especially for women.

    I do believe though that the rat poison in China is different than what you encountered.

    However, what we have here is an industrial food supply system that is pure politics. Currently the way it's set up it's cheaper to produce nearly any product in China or South America because the labor costs can be so low (and exploited). It's wrong and stupid and it's going to bite us in the bottom if we don't get smart and fight this (and the current reauthorization of the Food Farm Bill is as good a reason to start getting educated).

    Here's some history:

    61 students felled by rat poison in central China
    Last updated at: (Beijing Time) Monday, September 29, 2003

    Dozens of elementary school students and teachers in Hunan Province were hospitalized after ingesting rat poison with their school breakfasts in an apparent deliberate mass poisoning, state media said Sunday.

    Investigators believe poison was deliberately placed in school food but don't have any suspects yet, said the spokesman.

    All 317 students and staff who ate breakfast at the school on September 23 were sent to hospitals for checkups after their classmates and colleagues began vomiting and fainting, the Beijing Times newspaper said. People who ate the breakfast complained of head and stomach aches, it said.

    Investigators found traces of an illegal poison, Dushuqiang, or "Strong Rat Poisoner," in cakes served by the school cafeteria, the paper said.

    It said 473 students were checked and 241 showed some degree of poisoning. It wasn't clear why that figure differed from that given the city spokesman.

    School cook, Liu Lei, told investigators the school hasn't used rat poison in years and doesn't know how the poisonings occurred, the report said. Investigators are searching for others who could have gained access to the cafeteria's kitchen, it said.

    ...

    In recent years, China has suffered a series of poisoning attacks related to business and personal disputes, including several involving schools.

    A snack-shop owner from Nanjing was executed in January for spiking food with poison and causing the deaths of 38 people, most of them elementary school students. Dushuqiang was also blamed in that and other cases, leading to repeated crackdowns on the illicit manufacture and sale of the poison.

    Three children died and about 3,000 were sickened after drinking tainted soybean milk at a school in the northeastern city of Haicheng in March. Authorities say they are investigating whether that poisoning was intentional.

    Dushuqiang first appeared in 1990 and is much more poisonous than arsenic and potassium cyanide. Some five milligrams of the poison can kill a person.

    (Xinhua/AP News)

    Rat poison homicides prompt a crackdown
    By Associated Press
    Published November 15, 2003

    BEIJING - Each story is ghastlier than the last. A shop owner poisons the snacks at a rival's store, and 38 people die. A widow spikes the lunch at her husband's funeral, killing 10. A man seeks vengeance against his married lover by targeting her children.

    ...

    Dushuqiang (pronounced doo-shoo-CHIANG) is said to be 100 times deadlier than cyanide. Just 5 milligrams - a dusting - can kill a human being, and it remains widely available despite a ban dating to the mid 1990s.

    On Thursday, in the south-central province of Hunan, a man upset because his affair with a married woman was ending tried to poison her children, state media reported.

    One died, but not before he shared rat poison-laced popcorn and oranges with his young classmates, killing a second child and sickening 25 others. The man, Wei Entan, 26, tried to kill himself with poison but police stopped him, the Beijing Morning Post reported.

    In central China's Hubei province, a woman motivated by a longstanding family dispute was accused of poisoning the lunch at her husband's funeral last month. Chen Xiaomei had invited much of her village, and her alleged actions killed 10 people, including the local Communist Party secretary, and sickened 23.

    "Chen was said to often quarrel bitterly with the eldest daughter-in-law," the official Xinhua News Agency said, adding that the families of Chen's two sons "had long feuded over issues such as division of property and support of their parents."

    Other poisonings have involved business rivalries. In September 2002, at least 38 people died in the eastern city of Nanjing when shop owner Chen Zhengping sprinkled Dushuqiang on food from another shop out of what China Central Television said was "resentment." He was executed the next month.

    Wang Shizhou, a Peking University law professor, attributes part of the problem to the way rural China operates. It's rife with toxins such as rat poison, pesticides and herbicides, and villagers get little training in their use.

    "In the countryside, people do not know what kinds of things will poison somebody," Wang said, and an assailant may simply want to sicken one person but end up killing a dozen.

    ...

    In January, China executed Huang Hu, 29, a kindergarten owner in Guangdong province who sickened 70 children by mixing Dushuqiang into salt at a rival school's kitchen.

    The students and two teachers suffered spasms and vomiting. Reports said Huang blamed the rival school for the failure of his own kindergarten.

    Study Links Rural Suicides in China to Stress and Ready Poisons
    By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL
    Published: November 29, 2002

    ...

    China has one of the highest suicide rates in the world, particularly among women. It is the only country where suicides among women outnumber those among men, and one of the few where rural suicides outnumber urban suicides.

    In a study being released this week in The Lancet, researchers working in China place the blame for the high number of deaths on the ready availability of lethal pesticides and rodent poisons in rural areas, as well as the absence of mental health services in much of the country.

    The study's authors, Dr. Michael Phillips and Dr. Zhang Yanping, wrote that the ready availability of pesticides and rat poison in rural homes made ''self-poisoning an option for people who are experiencing acute and chronic stress.''

    Of 519 suicides the researchers looked at, 62 percent were accomplished by drinking pesticides or rat poison, 20 percent were by hanging and the rest by a variety of other methods.

    Drinking pesticide is a particularly lethal form of suicide attempt, since the physical symptoms, like labored breathing, come on quickly and are hard to treat in small rural hospitals.

    In previous papers, Dr. Phillips, a psychiatrist at the Huilongguan Hospital in Beijing, has estimated that 287,000 Chinese kill themselves each year, making it the fifth-largest cause of death in the country.

    I think the main answer is to educate ourselves and expose the food system and fight for change (from real knowledge and I can help there in getting you started). The FDA/USDA has no oversight over pet foods (among other things). The more I discover the more I believe nothing is more political than food.

    ~~~~

    I'm very sorry for your loss

    Mais, la souris est en dessous la table, le chat est sur la chaise et le singe est... est... le singe est disparu! -- Eddie Izzard

    by CSI Bentonville on Fri Mar 23, 2007 at 11:21:40 PM PDT

    •  I was living in a foreign country at the time (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      CSI Bentonville

      this all happened.  During the course of my research I found that rat poison is used as a weapon in a lot of places around the world.  Much more so than here in the US.  In fact, the data from the US was much more limited because a lot of these poisons are banned here in the states.  The greater concentration of data and poison information I was able to collect came from places like Australia and other countries where they seem to have more incidences of livestock poisonings for retribution purposes.  That is also something that doesn't happen very much in the US because the culture/laws/traditions we have are so protective of livestock.

      I won't get into it, but in the country in which I was living there was a local recipe for killing dogs with rat poison.  After this happened, I heard countless poisoning stories.  One in particular highlighted exactly why using rat poison is so dangerous.  Friends of ours had built a fenced area for their two dogs on their property.  A guy who had some goats decided that he wanted to use the pen for his goats.  So, he put rat poison down which killed the dogs and moved his goats into the pen.  Then all of the goats died because he had made the pen essentially a poison zone.

      Rats that have ingested poison will seek out water.  If you have a well or a cistern, there is a high probablility that they will end up in it and poison your water.

      In the US we are traditionally smarter about not allowing harmful agents into our food supply even if it is just for animals because we understand (or understood) that we can't control all of the events in the chain.  I understand that wiser approach is being abandoned and I think that this case is a classic example of how dangerous that change could potentially be not just to our beloved pets, but also to humans.  This is the canary in the coal mine as far as I am concerned.

      Having lived outside this country, I have a heightened awareness about the lax approach that many other countries take to chemical, pesticide and food production control.  All kinds of poisons and pesticides that have long since been banned in the US are freely available in most other countries in the world.  If we import food from those countries, we either have to get used to this sort of thing happening more often or we have to be much more stringent about what and from whom we import.  Personally, I'd be on the front lines of calling for a ban on importation from any country that doesn't follow our standards for growing food safely.  They aren't even that great, but they are a hell of a lot better.

      Now - China - remember you are sourcing government run media outlets and that first story sounds like it is as likely that those kids were fed with poisoned wheat product just like the animals were, but that the government wouldn't want to admit that their food is occasionally toxic enough to kill kids.

  •  Rat Poison used against the troops (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    inclusiveheart

    in Iraq also, anyone remember? There was some thought, at the time, that maybe they just had a little too much in their grain. Natural causes...

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