Where are the college kids?

Maybe it is because there is no draft, but it seems that most college students are politically apothetic and largely uninterested in the failings of the worst president in U.S. history, nor in the worst foreign policy decision in American history (the Iraq war).

If any of you watched the HBO Sports  documentary on the UCLA Basketball dynasty of the 1960's and 1970's, you'll know what I mean.  GO Bruins!

It showed how students were active and concerned about what was happenning in Vietnam, civil rights, and other pressing issues.  They protested; they shut down schools.  Three African American players refused to participate in the 1968 Olympic games because of race inequities.  Heck, even Bill Walton (the returning player of the year on an undefeated team) was on Westwood Boulevard and at campus trying to shut down the ROTC recruiting office.  When he was arrested, and as he was loaded into the paddy wagon, he looked at the Chancellor of UCLA, and told him to "F&^$ off!"

Then, in 1972, the ENTIRE team sent a one-page typed letter to President Nixon, urging him to end the war in Vietnam.  They called the war immoral and illegal.  Their language was clear and unwavering.  The letter was personally signed by EACH member of the undefeated 1971-1972 team.  So, instead of visiting the White House for a "atta boy" from the President, they flipped him the bird.  

Now I know a big reason for the student action then was that many of their friends were dying in Vietnam.  No such thing is occuring today.  But we have a backdoor draft, and many of the same concerns that were present in the 1960's and 1970's.  This criminal administration has no support outside of the Bible belt.  I am not college age, but I can tell you that if this was going on when I was in school, I would not be sitting on my ass.

p.s.  Go Bruins!!!

•  tip jar?

  by daninoah on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:33:22 AM PDT

  •  Are you talking about these kids?

    Facebook Generation

    by Yoshimi on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:18:42 AM PDT

•  hmmm....

  I don't think these generational arguments are very productive.  As a Gen-X guy, I'm inclined to side with the college students, who voted for Kerry in large numbers.

  by John DE on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:37:13 AM PDT

  •  I forgot to say excellent diary

    It is a very good story.

    by John DE on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:39:20 AM PDT

  •  good point

    maybe it's not generational but more or less in line with the general population, b/c even if they vote for kerry whos to say they are informed and know what's going on?  maybe they just did so b/c their parents and friends voted that way, or if they are half awake then they don't like bush.

    but being half awake is not going to save our democracy.  neither is ABB.  the darker forces at work will find a new face and continue the scam.

    by Stampy51 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:57:17 AM PDT

    •  Social issues too

      Among other things, all the fire and brimstone talk plus the gay bashing puts Republicans on the losing end of this demographic. Even the secular young Republicans are pretty liberal on social issues. Yes, it's shallow, but serious issues are boring.

      by dwcal on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:20:53 AM PDT

•  Where are they? On spring break.

  Why aren't they 'manning the barricades?'  Simple.  Same reason their parents aren't...no draft.  No direct threat to their lives.

  by oldpro on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:42:59 AM PDT

  •  more wealth, more distractions

    different idea of what college is about.

    the attitude is that college is just an extension of highschool, a time when you are supposed to have lots of fun, maybe learn something, and earn certification that (maybe) lets you into "members only" pay bracket.

    kids are too busy spending their parents money on beer and trying to get laid to do politics.  if not, then they are playing video games / watching tv / sports.

    by Stampy51 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:55:44 AM PDT

    •  Not true.

      College kids have always been the most politically active, and this is an unfair stereotype that you are perpetuating.

      Harvard public policy professor Robert Putnam, whose 2000 book Bowling Alone is about the decline of civic engagement and social connection, says volunteering is class-driven. "This whole recent spurt is largely concentrated among kids of the upper middle class. ... The have-nots are actually more detached than before. I am hopeful that we may be on the cusp of a new more civically engaged America, but if that is all defined very sharply in terms of social class, then the news is not so good."

      A September report by the National Conference on Citizenship, and based on nationally representative data from 1975 to 2004, echoes Putnam's concerns. It suggests a "large and growing civic divide between those with a college education and those without one."

      Source: http://www.usatoday.com/...

      by lockiecharms on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:32:36 AM PDT

      •  College applications

        Unfortunately, I think this gap can be easily explained by simple self interest, not community interest. The college educated have community service experience because they needed it to get into college, not because they went to college. It's not about civic engagement, it's about buffing up the resume.

        It wasn't too long ago that I was a college student and a medical student. I know the game because I watched it and played it.

        by spitonmars on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:47:58 AM PDT

        •  Yes and no. Two tracks...at least...

          Community college students don't need community service for admissions and they comprise the bulk of college students in this country.

          Colleges and universities who cap their admissions and have more applicants than they can handle (both public and private) do some screening re community service, etc. as a way of diversifying their student bodies and one more way to aid in their decisionmaking when they have to say no to some and yes to others.  Of course, that doesn't come into play at all if your team needs a quarterback or a guard with a deadly jumpshot...or even if the band needs a tuba player!

          by oldpro on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:12:37 AM PDT

        •  I'm not sure

          that I see a problem with this in the least. As long as the time is getting donated, does the reason behind it really matter?

          For many people my age, high school community service requirements or the appeal of adding it to the resume forced them to try an activity that they would have ignored otherwise. I moaned and groaned about doing my 30 hours in high school and now I mentor students at the local elementary school because I want to, and I don't get any credit for it on my resume.

          Sounds like you might be one of those cynical, apathetic Gen-Xers that my generation keeps getting compared to, hmm? :)

          (Kidding, obviously neither of us fit the stereotype of our generations or else we wouldn't be on dkos!)

          by lockiecharms on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 02:42:42 PM PDT

    •  Flip side

      A lot of engineering students are putting in 70 hour weeks just to keep up. I know I did.

      Still had time to protest occasionally. Although it was only occasionally.

      by maxomai on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:15:25 AM PDT

•  Neither apathy nor the draft.

  The mass protests against the Vietnam War... didn't work.

  Nixon got elected and re-elected. The mass protests began in 1966-1967; the War ended in 1975.

  The current generation is perhaps concentrating on more productive forms of political activism.

  by Elwood Dowd on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:46:30 AM PDT

  •  doubt it

    i'm in it.  we are not doing what you said.

    i've been at two schools, and very familiar with two more.  maybe it's the state of virginia but i have a hard time thinking the apathy level is so far out of sync with the rest of the nation.

    in a school of approx 20k the dems club is less than 50.

    just fyi.

    by Stampy51 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:53:52 AM PDT

    •  I blame that on the Democrats for not funding

      a farm team.  Republican are much better with getting students involved in the party.

      Hopefully, Howard Dean and the DNC are fixing this.

      by Yoshimi on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:16:54 AM PDT

•  high tuition tends to stifle dissent

  seriously.

  Kids do not feel nearly as free as the 60s generation.

  by mollyd on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:53:54 AM PDT

  •  I don't see that correlation

    based on my sample of 2. Kids here at UC Santa Cruz are much more likely to protest the war than kids at New Mexico State, despite the fact that UC tuition is way higher.

    by ChuyHChrist on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:02:01 AM PDT

•  When today's kids saw the 1960s student activists

  turn into narcissistic, intolerant, self-important bores, guess they figured it's better to stay off that path.

  by JillCrenz on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:55:48 AM PDT

  •  ya why wait

    might as well start as a narcissistic, intolerant, self-important bore

    by Stampy51 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:58:01 AM PDT

    •  funny!

      by JillCrenz on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:06:08 AM PDT

      •  I hate my parents

        n/t

        by jammin90mph on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:40:32 AM PDT

•  Not apathy

  Young people today aren't apathetic, they're just ignored.  In the '60s and '70s, when students stood up and spoke out, the media listened.  Today, the media looks the other way.  Students have tried to speak out and no one listens.  They're not dumb, they know that it's pointless to speak if there's no one willing to hear.

  by Biologist on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:04:33 AM PDT

•  Bird-flipping

  Heavy stuff.

  by jxg on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:15:26 AM PDT

•  No draft is the reason

  I have two in college. This war is something they don't like and are mad about.  However, it does not threaten them in any way.  If it did, they would be out there rioting.  It is the lack of a draft.  We don't see the graphic images of war that we did on Vietnam every night on TV.  It is a world away to them.  

  by heathergirl on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:16:08 AM PDT

  •  The same was true

    During Vietnam itself. My parents were of draft age and they didn't protest a damn thing. Few folks they knew did either, and they were living in Southern California at the time. The notion that the entirety of the young generation in the 1960s was in the streets is simply not true, and that means that a draft does not at all guarantee you will see significant or effective political activism. In fact most drafts in US history have been accompanied by crackdowns on public protest and even the imprisonment of those who spoke out against a draft. The only reason we did not see this in the 1960s was because the US government and courts were dominated by liberals, and even then you DID see some cracking down on protest.

    by eugene on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:19:35 AM PDT

  •  Yep, no draft, no threat....

    and upcoming tests and parties are on the mind!! That said, I want to commend those students who are active on campus. They may be few but they are dedicated and deserve recognition.

    by IndySteve on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:19:47 AM PDT

    •  You mean, no direct threat

      The threat exists, regardless. It depends how you look at it.

      by jammin90mph on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:42:56 AM PDT

•  Foolish approach

  You are arguing that the only form of recognized political engagement is mass street protest, and anything else is "apathy."

  Does that mean all the other, older generations who aren't out in the streets are apathetic too? I didn't know that the moment you walked across the graduation stage you were suddenly excused from your basic civic responsibilities.

  None of the assumptions here make any sense. Not just the two that I picked apart above, but also your notion that the 1960s forms of political engagement are normal and the standard by which all other college age peoples should be judged. That makes little sense either.

  As far as I can tell your knowledge of the college age group is superficial at best, and you base your assessments on bad history and ignorance.

  by eugene on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:17:25 AM PDT

  •  Why attack the author? Students today are..

    very active in local service-oriented work where they have a real impact. But many seem to think the political system or protesting is ineffective and not even in their mindset.

    by IndySteve on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:21:51 AM PDT

    •  Is protesting effective?

      I fully support protesting, but it is not at all clear that it is effective.

      As to the author, my concern is that uninformed and foolish assumptions about the youth then lead to bad policy that targets us based on a notion that we're somehow lazy and have to be forcibly awoken. You would not believe how many people I've seen on this site - most of them over 40 - argue that the way to end this war is to draft all us 20-somethings and force us to protest in the streets. It's idiotic in the extreme. We are a reality-based community here and I think we should hold diarists to high standards. Simply spouting uninformed assumptions are not a high standard.

      by eugene on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:41:55 AM PDT

•  I'm so tired of hearing this.

  Boomers who are nostalgic for the 1960s will never be satisfied with my generation's political involvement unless it matches the idea of what they think is a real protest.

  For anyone who doubts whether the young people in this country can be a political force, check out this new study from the Harvard Institute of Politics. It shows that in 2004:

  -More people under 30 voted than people over 65.

  -The youth turnout was the highest since 1972, with a whopping 41.8% of eligible voters from 18 to 25.

  -Though all turnout increased in 2004, youth increased the most.

  Also interesting are the results from 2006. Though they haven’t yet worked through all the data, the youth vote seems to be one of the decisive factors in the competitive House and Senate races.

  -In Virginia, so many new youth voters registered, and so many of the registered voters turned out, that the 9,000 votes Webb needed to win could’ve come from new voters in Charlottesville and Norfolk alone.

  -The surge in registration and voting at the University of Montana alone provided more votes than the margin of victory for Senator Burns.

  •61% of 13- to 25-year-olds feel personally responsible for making a difference in the world, suggests a survey of 1,800 young people to be released today. It says 81% have volunteered in the past year; 69% consider a company's social and environmental commitment when deciding where to shop, and 83% will trust a company more if it is socially/environmentally responsible. The online study — by two Boston-based companies, Cone Inc. and AMP Insights — suggests these millennials are "the most socially conscious consumers to date."

  •Two-thirds of college freshmen (66%) believe it's essential or very important to help others in difficulty, suggests a survey of 263,710 students at 385 U.S. colleges and universities. The 2005 report, by the Higher Education Research Institute at the University of California at Los Angeles, found feelings of social and civic responsibility among entering freshmen at the highest level in 25 years.

  •Volunteerism by college students increased by 20% from 2002 to 2005, says a study released last week by the federal Corporation for National and Community Service.

  by lockiecharms on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:25:52 AM PDT

•  Apathy?

  Please.

  Tell that to the dozens of students from my school who pooled their own money and piled into a bus for ten hours each way to goto the pentagon peace rally a few weeks ago.

  Tell that to the generation of young voters who had higher turnout rates in recent cycles than at any time since 18yr olds were allowed to vote.

  by nhcollegedem on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:30:10 AM PDT

  •  yeah.

    there have been plenty of organized trips to rallies at my school.

    young people are also heavily involved in the netroots movement.

    the diarists assertion may or may not be true, but this diary is entirely lacking any empirical data or analysis, and is composed of anecdotes and broad generalities in their stead.  not very convincing to anyone except someone who already agrees.

    by inertiac on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:35:36 AM PDT

•  Why does one have to be of college age?

  You're more than capable of protest, I'm sure. Besides, ask yourself, "What does it take to be labeled as a terrorist these days?"

  Untill they have a draft, we'll all dismiss our veterans as heroes, but maybe a little slow.

  Better you than me.

  I'm not agreeing with the attitude, I'm just stating what I observe. People are clueless. I'm of age to be drafted, and I almost wish the draft would come about so I could watch the smirks wash right of my generation's face.

  Who? Me?

  Yeah you! You sniveling shit! Lets go!

  by jammin90mph on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:37:04 AM PDT

•  The kids I know

  Are working their butts off, sweating finances and how they will repay their loans, and building "marketable resumes" for future jobs just as they built them in High School to get into college.

  by Catte Nappe on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:41:05 AM PDT

  •  Yes, exactly

    I'm a grad student at a large public U, and most students are working a job and competing academically. It's not the '60's where you didn't have to go to class or could take 8 yrs for a BA, when tuition was $500 a year.

    Yes, there are flocks of flip-flop and PJ wearing, cell phone yelling, um like ya know's air heads at this campus, as at many other others, but don't just the majority by the idiot minority. These kids work much more in community and volunteer work than we did in the early 80's when I was an undergrad.

    Kids do party some, and yes, I'd be stressed and want to kick out some if I was worried about getting any kind of job related to my field and graduating with $20-60 K in debt as some kids do.

    And a BS/BA is the 2007 equivalent of a HS diploma 40 yrs ago, a Masters or higher is required to stand out.

    by UndercoverRxer on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:07:22 AM PDT

  •  Add to that...

    The typical corporate recruiter at an engineering job fair is looking for someone with a 3.5 GPA or better.

    3.5. In Engineering. From institutions where they never heard of "grade inflation." That is a very small pool of recruits at institutions like Georgia Tech and UC Berkeley, but they want The Best. A few firms light be looking for a 3.0. Less than that and you've got a long job search ahead of you.

    Getting into that 3.5 promised land while working a crap part-time job to make rent and worrying about whether your student loan check will go through is very painful.

    by maxomai on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:29:26 AM PDT

•  I hope Obama's candidacy will strike a cord with

  These kids and make them more acutely wre of their responsibilies to civic action in addition to drowning in MTV

  by wuod kwatch on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:43:24 AM PDT

•  well some of us still manage to fit in a protest

  I've yet to shut down a campus, but maybe soon.  I wrote about the St. patty's protest here.

  by pegleghippie on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:51:50 AM PDT

•  No Draft

  No Danger.

  As a recent College graduate last year of the largest University in the US, that was my feeling.

  Hardly anyone knew anyone in the military, or if they did, it was not a close acquaintance.

  The war is distant to most students, as it is to the majority of the populace.

  by redcardphreek on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:04:45 AM PDT

•  Maybe

  While the diarist paints with an overly broad brush, s/he may be at least partially right. Of course there are hard-working politically active college students and there always will be. However political activism has competition with the pressure to complete studies as fast as possible (including remedial work because they didn't get what they needed in HS) and get out into the workforce to earn big $$, which in and of itself is a myth, but I digress.

  I'm probably one of the few around who think reinstating the draft is a good idea and here's why.

  1. Military service is a great way to expose people to others who aren't like themselves. Colleges do to a certain degree, but unless they're top-tier colleges like the Ivy league schools or famous for specific programs, they draw mostly from their local geographic areas, usually a 100 mile radius so while there is some cultural diversity it's limited to a certain degree.

  2. Military service teaches real-world skills through experience. This is one of the ways recruiters sell enlisting in the military, and one of they few times they're actually telling the truth. In the military you take what you've learned and put it to practical application almost immediately after you've learned it.

  3. This kinda goes back to point #1, but I'll say it anyway. Military service provides exposure to the world at large. Pretty much all of the armed forces require some overseas duty whether it's a permanent duty assignment or a temporary assignment. While I was in the USMC I got to see parts of Europe and large swaths of Asia. Seeing for yourself other countries, cultures, and how the people who live in them go about their business opens whole new worlds of understanding. It's a hell of a lot better than reading about it in a book because you get details you can't get in a classroom.

  Military service isn't for everyone. It certainly wasn't for me, but I learned much about myself and the world while I was in the military and I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It has proved to be a very valuable tool upon which I continue to rely to this day.

  by Cali Techie on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:37:48 AM PDT

•  I think the 2008 election is going to increase

  activism on Campus.  I met with some students at the local state university who are supporting Obama (as am I) and they are very excited.  At first I wasn't sure they were for real, but when five of them got up very early last Saturday and drove in the rain to a statewide Obama meeting two hours away, pooling gas money, I became convinced that they are serious.

  But here's a simple problem:  they really have no money.  It's pretty standard to provide some kind of food (usually pizza and pop) at meetings on campus, but they told me they can't afford to buy it.  They are officially part of Students for Barack Obama, but don't receive a penny for expenses (printing, food, etc.).  And almost to a student, their parents are conservative Republicans who would be horrified if they knew what their kids were doing politically.

   You read about how the conservatives donate all kinds of money to college conservative groups, but our Dem kids are totally on their own.  I'm going to start giving them money out of my own pocket to help.

  by extradish on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:46:30 AM PDT

•  They are on Spring Break on the beach

  It's spring, and the college kids are running around half naked on a beach on Florida.

  OK most are probably back from Spring Break, but since its Friday night, I imagine they will be hitting the bars soon.

  by BlueTide on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:19:35 AM PDT