Daily Kos

On Sexism, Racism, and Don Imus

Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:25:35 PM PDT

x-posted from TexasKaos, where we're taking Texas back!
This picture, taken by Mike Segar/Reuters, comes from today's news conference held by the Rutgers University Women's Basketball Team.  Take a good, close look at the faces in that picture. You'd think that they would be all smiles, having recently won a (my apologies!  thanks bob for the correction) competed for a National Championship.  


Instead, they sit stern-faced and sullen. Why? Because last week, radio and tv host Don Imus branded the women "nappy headed hos".  

This isn't the first time that Imus has crossed the line.  He's previously called Hillary Clinton a "bitch" and Barack Obama a "young colored fellah" who has a "Jew-hating name".  When speaking of Latino New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, Imus said of Bill, "Besa Mi Culo, Gordo" (loosely translated to "Kiss my ass, fatty"). Last Friday, in an extremely weak attempt at humor, the following quote was broadcasted on Imus's show in regards to Obama's Q1 haul: "Well, Senator Obama is obviously generating some serious cash flow in a non-traditional way ... he's selling crack. Or he's pimping. Which, I guess is pretty much the same thing euphemistically speaking. I mean, I don't want to start rumors but the money had to come from somewhere..." Imus's own producer, Bernard McGuirk, called the ladies basketball final a battle of the "Jigaboos vs. the Wannabees".


These are just a few examples of the utterly insensitive and tasteless remarks spewed by Imus over the years.


So when his latest comment about the "nappy-headed hos" set off a media firestorm, I couldn't help but wonder why it took so damned long.


Don Imus has been getting away with much worse than this for decades.  Back in the 70s, the rise of the "shock jock" occurred - not coincidentally I'm sure - in parallel to the rise of feminism.  It was not unusual for listeners to tune in to talk radio and hear sexist and racist jokes on the airwaves.  For this new breed of radio host, pushing the envelope of taste and civility was the order of the day. In the so-called shock jock, the angry white man had found a kindred spirit. And in the 80s, the social climate practically encouraged a backlash against women and minorities. After all, it was the Reagan era, and screwing minorities and women was a large part of the agenda.


The 80s gave way to the 90s, "political correctness", and "sensitive ponytail men". Those angry white men - hungry for an outlet to vent their rage during an era where traditional, rugged masculinity seemed less desirable - flocked to the likes of Howard Stern, Don Imus, and Rush Limbaugh.  Listening to Rush bash the "political correctness police" or Stern make boobie jokes about his porn-star guests was a daily release for the angry white man.  


Fast forward to today, and the same behavior that made Imus famous may now get him shit-canned. So what has changed?


Well, everything except the Imuses of the world.  And to be frank, I don't think they're ever going to change.  Men like that are very set in their ways and sometimes they can't help but be insensitive jerks.  It's second nature for them.  And I understand it, because my father is one of those guys.


Like Imus, my father is in his late sixties.  In fact, their birth dates are separated by a mere nine months. Like Imus, my father was raised in an era where spewing epithets like "nigger" or "spic" was not only accepted, but encouraged. He came of age in the 50s, during the Golden Era of Traditional American Values and Manly Men (or as you may know it, the GOP's little fantasy world).  Men like my father were socialised to believe that they were mentally and physically superior to women and minorities.


During his lifetime, my father has seen a lot of things change.  He's seen desegregation, the rise of feminism, and seismic societal shifts which, as a person, he just couldn't keep up with. His early socialisation still informs his personality and worldview, and sixty year old habits are hard to break.  


Once when I was in high school, my father told me that if I ever brought a black friend home, he'd shoot them.  Was he kidding?  To this day I'm still not sure, but I'll also add that the first thing he said to my husband upon meeting him was, "I'm so glad you're white."


Are these things racist?  Absolutely.  Would my dad see those incidents as examples of racist behavior?  Probably not.  I know him well enough to know he'd claim the Imus Defense, saying he was kidding about shooting my friends.  And he wouldn't give it a second thought.  He wouldn't even comprehend that something he thought was very funny could be very offensive to others (why did Kinky Friedman just pop into my head?).  


He simply wasn't socialised to have a sensitivity gene.  After all, back in the Golden Era of Traditional Values and Manly Men, there was no need for one.  


I strongly suspect that Imus suffers similarly.  He's an old white dude who was raised in a different era, and society has changed much faster than he has.


Now let me be clear.  I am in no way excusing Imus's racist and sexist speech.  I am simply saying that I think I understand where it comes from based on experiences with my old man and others his age.  And yes, I know I'm speaking in broad generalisations, but I've only met a few men in my father's generation who buck the stereotype.


Imus has thrown out tons of excuses for his behavior, but I believe he's reaping what he's sown.  Imus will point to his ranch and say that because he helps kids with cancer, that he has a good heart.  He may very well have a good heart underneath that crusty exterior.  But having a good heart doesn't mean that heart is free of prejudice.


My father would also say he has a good heart.  Although we clashed mightily during my youth, he now regularly lavishes me with praise.  He is kind to my husband, and my father's voice swells with pride when he talks about my marriage.  But every once in a while, the angry white man emerges and he throws out an epithet.


But I don't give my father a pass on that behavior  anymore, and Imus doesn't deserve it either. When I was young, I didn't know how to rebut my father's racism and sexism, and in fact I had to work very, very hard for many years to undo the behaviors I learned from him.  When my dad tosses out one of those words, I call him on it.  Most of the time he doesn't even realise he's being hurtful. But if we allow stuff like that to pass, then we become enablers.


In fact, calling Imus a "shock jock" gives him a pass on this incident. "Shock jocks" are expected to be tasteless assholes who makes jokes at the expense of minority groups.  I'd prefer to think of Imus like I think of my dad: a product of another era who just hasn't unlearned all the bad behavior he learned as a youth.


So the question becomes, is Imus capable of learning?  Honestly, I'm not sure.  The defensiveness he displayed on Sharpton's radio show seems to indicate that he doesn't even understand how he could have hurt anyone's feelings:



IMUS: "Don't talk about me doing used car commercials. I'll bet you I've slept in a house with more black children who were not related to me than you have. Do not get into my face about this...why don't you show up here in person."

Ah yes, the old "meet me at the playground after class" line.  It's the same shit my dad does when he gets called on his racism.  Guys like that, they're incapable of fathoming that they could possibly have hurt anyone's feelings.  Listen to what those women had to say at today's press conference:



"I would like to express our team's great hurt, anger and disgust toward the words of Mr. Don Imus," Carson said. "We are highly angered at his remarks but deeply saddened with the racial characterization they entailed."


"Our moment was taken away -- our moment to celebrate our success, our moment to realize how far we had come, both on and off the court, as young women," said sophomore forward Heather Zurich. "We were stripped of this moment by degrading comments made by Mr. Imus last Wednesday. What hurts the most about this situation is that Mr. Imus knows not one of us personally."


"I would like to speak to him personally and ... ask him, after you've met me personally, do you still feel in this category that I'm still a 'ho' as a woman and as a black, African-American woman at that?" said Kia Vaughn, a sophomore center. "I achieve a lot, and unless they have given this name of 'ho' a new definition, then that is not what I am."


"Before you are valedictorians of their class, future doctors, musical prodigies, and yes, even Girl Scouts," (Rutgers coach C. Vivian Stringer) said. "They are young ladies of class, distinction, they are articulate, they are brilliant, they are gifted. They are God's representatives in every sense of the word."

And that's what guys like Imus and my dad miss. They think words are just words.  But as any victim of psychological abuse will tell you, words can hurt worse than fists.  


If Imus proves to be incapable of internalising the pain his remarks caused, then perhaps it's time for him to quietly shuffle off into retirement with what's left of his dignity.  





P.S.: Taylor Marsh wrote a very insightful blog entry about this kerfluffle.  I highly recommend it.

Tags: cbs, MSNBC, racism, sexism, humanity, Don Imus (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 86 comments

  •  Um, they didn't win the national championship. (13+ / 0-)

    But good diary, anyway. They lost in the title game to Tennessee.

  •  My dad's 72, and he taught me bigotry is wrong (0+ / 0-)

    ... except, maybe, against Republicans.  (No wait, that was my mom - she's the angry one in the family.)  

    Patterns of belief do change somewhat over generations, but the majority of folks believe roughly what their parents believed.  

    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

    by lgmcp on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:27:32 PM PDT

  •  "Look at those frizzy haired hook-nosed money (10+ / 0-)

    grubbing media-owning reporters..." oh, do i have your attention?

    Do you have a daughter? Do you have a black daughter? Is she a nappy-headed ho?

    And if this were spit out at Jews or the greasy, dago, mafia giuliani types, would there be any question about right and wrong?

    Once again, the african-american gets pissed on and there is some question about whether or not it's acceptable?

    How many black people work at MSNBC? NBC? How many executives/producers/directors are african-american?

    The mainstream media bending over backwards to make sure Don Imus gets a fair shake is pathetic. Hire some african-americans and give them decision making power (don't worry - they'll be qualified and will have earned it) and see if Imus and his types don't shrivel up and die out sooner than later.

    It's a new age. the face of the nation is changing, for the better in my humble opinion.

  •  Im reminded of my Grandparents (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Cat4everrr, astraea

    THey go even further back - 95 and 93 I think.  And Itend to agree with you - I'd love to imagine that they (and Imus for that matter) can learn.  But im not that optimistic

    •  My grandfather did. (0+ / 0-)

      It is a question of desire.

      My father used to say "People can change.  But they very seldom do."

      It takes effort.  It's painful.  It usually needs to be motivated by a sustained outside element.

      Imus can change. I will need to see proof that he has before I discount the years of outrageous statements he's built up.

      His air of victimization does not bode well for a positive outcome.

      Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

      by boadicea on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 06:45:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Were you upset over the Chocolate Jesus ? (5+ / 0-)

    Did you hate that censorship ? Is this going to end up doing more harm than good once every record with the N word, the H word, the P word, the LSD word, any word than means sex, etc have all been banned because "someone" was offended ?

    Think this issue thru. Where and when does censorship start and stop, and who gets to choose just what is offensive ? Yeah, I know people don't think what I'm saying is right, but then I lived through the Hustler Trials, and I have seen other attempts to close down the Arts and Music. Any one old enough to remember towns burning every Rock and Roll record in the small town ?

    You don't like Imus and that's find, don't listen, turn it off, don't support his sponsors, but please, please, don't help bring censorship the our shores anymore than the fear of the Patriot Act, and the DHS has already.

    -8.63 -7.28 We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.~Martin Luther King III

    by OneCrankyDom on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:31:32 PM PDT

    •  What you consistently miss (10+ / 0-)

      is that nobody is talking about censorship. Imus has every right to say whatever hateful, bile-filled crap he'd like. But it is not his right as an american to (a) be paid to do so or (b) be given what amounts to a gigantic cultural megaphone. And he certainly has no right to not be told just how absolutely full of crap he is, and has been for a long time.

      •  Well, actually some ARE talking about censorship (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Spit, lil love

        though not within this particular diary.  Earlier today I saw of a number of commentators discussing the desirability of FCC action.  

        I am all in favor of public outcry.  Just not of government banning.

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:44:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  If the FCC can get its knickers in a twist (0+ / 0-)

          over the exposure of Janet Jackson's nipple for x seconds, then they better goddam get exercised about the  use of the airways to spout hatred and racism.

          Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

          by boadicea on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 06:42:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So because they did something fucked up, (0+ / 0-)

            they should do MORE fucked up things, for the sake of consistency?

            Censorship is NOT in our interest.  Not censorship of sexual material, and not censorship of political material, and not even censorship of hate speech.  I'm gay, so I know all about being on the receiving end of hate speech.  But I am also a first amendment absolutist.  While some of Anne Coulter's remarks approach the fire-in-a-crowded-theater standard of outright incitement to violence, those of Imus (or for that matter Fred Phelps) do not.

            "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

            by lgmcp on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 07:13:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Flip that on its head (0+ / 0-)

              Because there's been no negative consequence for Imus previous actions, there shouldn't be any now?

              Censorship is a government silencing its people.  The public airways are given over to commercial entities, like Imus' show,  with specific restrictions on what can be done on them.  He accepted the possibility of consequences when he accepted the gig, for all his howling protestations of victimhood now. That includes the possiblity of fines, which is all the FCC can do to him, is it not?  He's not being deprived of the freedom to be a racist, mysogynistic asshole with a soft spot for some kids.  His megaphone to spread his message has been suspended for two fricking weeks-and not by the government, but by his employers (or one of them).

              I'm a first amendment fan myself, which of course means I'm not an absolutist as you yourself claim to be-and your being gay has nothing to do with this argument.

              Imus is not being silenced.  He's being made to face the consequences of his choices to use racism and mysogyny as his "entertainment" schtick.

              Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

              by boadicea on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 07:35:41 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You are arguing with something other than (0+ / 0-)

                my point. Nowhere have I argued against consequences for Imus.  I think it's fine and dandy that his employers suspended him, and it would be better still if listeners would boycott him and his advertisers in droves.  

                My point, which is very narrow and specific, is that there should not be GOVERNMENT consequences.  Which, yes, includes FCC fines. If being an asshole over the airwaves leads to fining, then what's to keep, say, Donahue's flock from silencing ME? since clearly they find my views offensive.

                As far as my being gay, I don't take kindly to your dismissal of its relevance.  Anyone can and should be against hate crimes and hate speech. But when someone who has specifically been victimized by them STILL supports freedom of said speech, that in my opinion is in fact a circumstance worthy of note.  At the risk of sounding like a freeper you might choose to sneer at me for a "culture of victimhood", but I argue strongly that anyone subjected to discrimination has extra standing (over and above that of a neutral observer) to critique that discrimination.  The fact is that at various times because of my lesbianism I have been verbally and physically assaulted, had my job threatened, my home defaced, and my vehicle vandalized, due to hate crimes, and yet STILL I speak out against censorship of speech, INCLUDING objectionable speech.  If you still find that irrelevant, then I have to question your sensitivity to the ACTUAL outcomes of discrimination, as opposed to just seizing a pretext for censorship of views you dislike.

                "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                by lgmcp on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 09:00:51 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're arguing for a change in the system (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Libertine 777

                  Which you're certainly entitled to do so as a first amendment "absolutist", but while this is the system in place, I want it applied to Don Imus as well as Janet Jackson.

                  As for my dismissal of your assumption that being gay makes you especially qualified to give Imus a pass, I didn't do it to insult you, but it really is beside the point for my argument-which is that the enforcement should be applied in both cases..

                  I'm a woman who's faced discrimination myself, and have seen my friends of color and those who are gay suffer from the hate speech and bigotry of others at close quarters.

                  That's also beside the point for this argument.

                  You know about as much about me and my life experience as I do about you, so let's back off from the ad hominem shall we?

                  Leave that to the exalted Imus.

                  Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

                  by boadicea on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 10:27:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Arguing for equal application of a bad system (0+ / 0-)

                    may be consistent, but it only enforces and legitimizes that system.  I take your argument that censorship if it must exist should be applied in an even-handed manner.  But since censorship in general is highly chilling to liberty, as you say you agree, why support it?  Oppose it in Janet Jackson's case and oppose it in Amanda Marcotte's case and oppose it Imus's case.  If free speech is a principle, then it must also apply to speech which we, personally, dislike.  If you're arguing for consistency, THERE's consistency.  Equal application of a GOOD system, and if change is needed, advocate for change.  Don't advocate for equal-opportunity repression.  

                    Sorry about the ad hominem. I'll strive to avoid it.  However while my personal perpective may be irrelevant to YOUR argument, it is certainly not irrelevant to mine:  if I can advocate for the speech rights of those who have wronged me, others can do the same.

                    "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

                    by lgmcp on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 11:18:27 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  He has a right to be paid, if (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Spit, Dems2004, mcfly, LeftOverAmerica

        anyone wants to pay him. There's also a 1st Amendment right to try and convince his network it's bad for their business to continue to employ him.

        Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
        Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

        by ben masel on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:54:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Who is trying to censor him? (10+ / 0-)

      He can say whatever he damn well pleases. But there is a price to pay for spouting hate.

      Don Imus will never be hurting. If he got dumped from network radio tomorrow, he'd be up on satellite the next day, a hero to the bigots who love his show.

      Fuck Don Imus. No one is trying to silence his big mouth. But for those unwilling to let him get away with spouting vile, racist, sexist blather, more power to `em.

      There are consequences to actions.

    •  You don't see a difference between (0+ / 0-)

      the vast number of people who take offense at CBS & MSNBC broadcasting Imus' racist games and the political games of Bill Donohue?

      I really, really do.

      "2009" The end of an error

      by sheddhead on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:42:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  To me Donohue is more obscence than Imus (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        lgmcp

        and if I supported censorship, he would be higher on my list.

        -8.63 -7.28 We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.~Martin Luther King III

        by OneCrankyDom on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:48:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Imagine Imus Had Said This. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      anna, cfk, esquimaux

      Wow. I was looking at McCain meeting with those Marines in Baghdad. Woo. Hoo. Did they look like baby killers or what? Man. Talk about your SS Hitler Youth. I mean, they don't scare me but I bet Poland was a little nervous.

      Tell me if you think he'd be going back on the air in two weeks.

      •  Or for that matter the "hot sticky white spirit" (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        esquimaux

        posting that did in fact lead to the departure of Edwards' staffer.  

        Yes, racism and anti-gay bias are both still far, far more acceptable than other forms of bias, and that sucks.  Anti-military bias (in your example) or anti-Christian bias (in mine) are HIGHLY unacceptable in popular opinion.

        Nonetheless if you offend enough people, by ANY means, you are unlikely to remain long in  a public position.  

        We must distinguish that from governmental enforcement of opinion and morality, aka censorship and theocracy.  The court of public opinion is not the court of law, nor should it be.  

        "The extinction of the human race will come from its inability to EMOTIONALLY comprehend the exponential function." -- Edward Teller

        by lgmcp on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:01:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I don't see anything outrageous about that. (0+ / 0-)

        nor, I suspect, would those who wound up sucking down white phosphorous in fallujah.

        I think you need a better example.

        It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. - G. Carlin

        by RabidNation on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:01:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But Most People Would Find It Unacceptable (4+ / 0-)

          And Imus would be immediately fired for it.

          Why?

          Because insulting the military undermines societal discipline. If people lost respect for the military, they wouldn't be able to keep the war going in Iraq.

          On the other hand, insulting black women reinforces societal discipline. We couldn't be in Iraq if it weren't for the deep history of racism in the United States.

          That's why in the case of the Rutgers basketball team, Imus will get the slap on the wrist, give some money charity and be back on the air in two weeks.

          But if he had insulted the troops, he'd be gone.

    •  I bet most of the people that are firing away (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RabidNation, sharilynn, dgone36, CPDem81

      at Mr. Imus hasn't watched or listened to anymore than one of his shows....  He gives it to everyone and they give it back to him.  He calls his wife a "green ho" damn near everyday.  His co-workers, kid him about his wife having a secret affair with Harold Ford Jr. at least once a week.  Full disclosure I'm a black man and I watch his show everyday.  

      When he was out and speaking about the situation on veterans coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan and bldg 18 at Walter Reed, people on this site wanted to email him and cheer him on.  Now everyone wants to criticize him....  

      He opened the MSM eyes on the incompentence of this Administration from the jump about Katrina and the war in Iraq....  He takes black kids to his ranch and tried to open lawmakers eyes on Sickle Cell Anemia

      Then just like clockwork here comes Jesse "Baby Daddy" Jackson and Al "Big Perm" Sharpton talking about firings and boycotts.....  

      We as black people need to focus on what our own people think and say in public about how we treat our own women.....

      If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

      by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:49:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Now everyone wants to criticize him.... " hmmm. (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        phenry, Tonedevil, cfk, esquimaux

        well, duh! No shit. You piss on people and stereotype using vulgar racist language for laughs -- then I think that qualifies you for some criticism, don't you think?

        Oh -- and better yet, be a white dude talking and laughing with another white dude about some "nappy-headed hos"...what part of this don't you see?

      •  "Equal opportunity insults" (6+ / 0-)

        always, amazingly, seem to leave straight, white men pretty well unscathed.

        I don't find "he makes fun of everybody" to be a particularly compelling defense, honestly. There are things that just shouldn't come out of people's mouths if they're going to be given the chance to talk to millions.

        •  Ummmm, his crew give it to him just as he (0+ / 0-)

          gives it out.  His guest give it to him as he gives it out... If ever watch his show, you would see this.....  

          Don't give me this "white men" crap...  I'm a Black Man, with some parts of Native American, and I watched it happen unfold and thought nothing of it....  He's been doing the same comedy schtick for the last 8 years that I've been watching him, after my younger brother told me that he watches his show everyday..... It's comedy, point blank and simple.....  He stands up for those who can't stand up for themselves, the kids and soldiers....  He was the first one out there THE VERY FIRST ONE OUT THERE in the MSM about Hurricane Katrina.....  

          But if it doesn't fit your world view, off with their heads, huh?

          If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

          by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:51:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's a Locker Room/Frat House (5+ / 0-)

        It's one thing to go on the show and be insulted by Imus. That's your choice. If Howard Kurtz wants to be subjected to anti-semitic slurs on the Imus show, then he probably also believes that it shows he's "one of the guys", that he can take the hazing and now gets to pledge the frat.

        But the Rutgers basketball players didn't make that choice. They weren't allowed into the boy's club at the price of some hazing. They accidentally walked by the frat one day and got catcalled and harassed by a gang of assholes.

        •  It's funny that men athletes have been killed for (0+ / 0-)

          years by the media and no one has said a peep....  Especially black male athletes.....  Anytime anyone has said anything, the usual reply is they get a free education to play ball, or they are big boys they can handle it.....  But when a person that most people on this site can't stand because of whatever reason, everyone jumps on like a pack of wild hyenas.....  Where was the outrage when Billy Packer said that mostly white Duke was a smarter team than the mostly black Arkansas team (who was coached by a black man) would win...

          Or when the sports world says that black athletes have "God" given abilities not counting in the hours and hours of hard work, whereas their white counterparts are usually credited with hustle and smarts?????  

          Please with the selective outrage.....

          Hell the NBA catches hell year in and year out while the NFL gets a pass......

          If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

          by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:27:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Fuck Imus. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, esquimaux

        And fuck his fans for enabling him. He's an asshole in a world that has too many assholes already, and we as a planet are poorer for his existence. Why listen to an asshole on the radio? There are many non-assholes to choose from, even on the commercial stations. If I had a neighbor who was as big of an asshole as Imus I would go to great lengths to avoid ever talking to him.

    •  Imus is facing the consequences of his speech (0+ / 0-)

      Don't you dare give the "censorship" excuse for him.

      He can change.  He has thus far chosen not to.

      Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.

      by boadicea on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 06:39:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As a sixty-one year old female (11+ / 0-)

    who happens to be caucasian, I say "YES, dammit, he is capable of learning....and it is his choice to NOT LEARN."   Sadly there are a lot of men, as well as women, younger than their sixties who have chosen to NOT LEARN, NOT GROW, NOT OPEN their minds.  I call them ....for lack of a better word, neocons.
    Some of them are in their 20s, some in their 30s, and many in their 40s.

    In fact, most of my peers, are much more open minded than some of our own children.   We scratch our heads and wring our hands over that one......and some wonder "How can anyone who voted for Bush have come out of me?"

    Anyway, while I respect your pov and your diary was interesting, neither Imus nor anyone holding on to sexism or racism gets a pass (from me) because of age.  

    •  Agreed. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      boadicea, cfk, lgmcp

      I'm wondering where the supposed age line is, exactly.  I'm a 60 year old, white, male, civil rights and criminal defense lawyer.  So Imus is what, a few years older than me?  So if I were just a little older it would be if not ok, understandable for me to have a decade long string of racist, misogynist, and anti-gay remarks punctuated by occasional hollow apologies?  Spare me the bs.  Spare me the agism.  This shit has been unacceptable for at least 50 years that I'm aware of.  The troglodytes who continue it deserve whatever condemnation we can muster.

      Visit The Dream Antilles, a lit blog. Another Proud Member of the Mariachi Mama Moratorium On Bickering.

      by davidseth on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:47:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  on not learning (0+ / 0-)

      i think that fits my father to a tee.  i wish he would be capable of learning, but i just am not so sure.

      same with imus.  if i thought he was capable and wanted to learn from this mistake, i'd be more forgiving.

      John Cornyn is an asshole with shoes. Support Rick Noriega!

      by anna on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:45:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  he stole their moment, they won't get it back (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cfk, kkjohnson, lgmcp, esquimaux

    Disadvantage is a mountain made out of molehills---women and minorities face a reality that their moment is nearly always stolen---and these lost opportunities accumulate over time to add up to lowered confidence, lowered ambition and then lowered accomplishment.

    The Imus's of the world must be stopped, we should not coddle them because they simply refuse to grow the hell up.

  •  people put down other people because ... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    lgmcp

    ... they are actually very insecure.  Racism, sexism, and all the other -isms make people feel better about themselves by supporting the belief that they are better than others.  So, if I am a working class white guy who feels badly about being poor and I see rich basketball players on TV who make me feel inferior, I might turn around and call someone a "nigger" to puff up my wounded ego.  Likewise, men who are threatened by powerful women tend to find ways to put women down, either with name calling, or sexual harrassment.  In extreme forms, it leads to violence against women.  

    The more arrogant, bigoted, sexist, and racist a person is, the more afraid they are of their own insignificance.  I feel sorry bigots.  They are pathetic.  Ignore them and refuse to internalize their shit.

    May all beings be free from fear.

    by shakti on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:42:12 PM PDT

  •  Good diary (6+ / 0-)

    what's weird to me, though, is that the "shock jock" phenomenon isn't just generational -- it would be far easier to understand if it were. But I see a lot of young white men, some of them even liberal, who are very much fans of the whole sort of south park I-can-be-more-offensive-than-you trend.

    The backlash against much of the progress of the last 50 years or so doesn't seem to be dying down generationally, or at least not enough. If anything, I fear it's gotten louder in the young.

  •  That fact that he felt comfortable (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil, cfk, hockeyrules

    saying what he did in 2007, shows the man has got to go.

    Will the elite be happy living behind gated communities in the potential meltdown? Peace now. -7.00, -2.92

    by mattes on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:43:16 PM PDT

  •  His producer, Bernard is exponentially worse. (5+ / 0-)

    And he's nowhere near 60.

    They disrespect women every single day.   They hardly ever have women on (except Mary "Cruella" Matalin) and when they do - like Amy Rorbach (?) - they belittle her at every opportunity.  It's disgusting.

    And Bernard's hatred of women and people of color is just astounding.  He is the most sexist, racist person I have ever heard on the airwaves day in and day out.  Being a blatant bigot should not pass for "shock jock."

    I listen to Howard Stern all the time.  As woman I am often offended, but I do believe it's all part of his show.  With Bernard and Imus, that is exactly how they feel.  I can only imagine what their conversations would be like over a bottle of whiskey (before Imus gave up the booze).

    I'm not sure if Imus should be run off the air, but I do think that drastic changes would need to take place.  The first would be to fire Bernard McGuirk immediately.

    And I don't just want a "black person" on his show like he suggested....I want women on his show.

    •  Rarely have women on???? (0+ / 0-)

      Andre Mitchell, Norah O'Donnell, Doris Kearns Goodwin, The Kerry's, The Woodruffs, his wife, Ana Marie Cox, Maureen Dowd....  You're right all of these people have been masquerading as men for all this time.....

      If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

      by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:54:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your right, those women have been on. (0+ / 0-)

        I guess they just seem few and far between to me.

        But, that doesn't change the fact that they disrespect women nearly every single day.  

        At a very minimum, Bernard must go.  I have felt this way long before this Rutgers conversation came up.

        •  They "disrespect" everyone, not just women.... (0+ / 0-)

          There hasn't been one day in the last 8 years since I've been watching him that someone hasn't made fun of him or anyone else on the staff.  I agree with him when he said this morning, that the word "HO" didn't originate on his show it originated in our community, but we don't see Sharpton or Jackson leading pickets against CD shops that sell this crap, or radio stations that play this crap ALL DAY, EVERY DAY....  Where were they when BET had UNCUT on??????  

          The only Blacks that they had a problem with were Aaron McGruder for bringing up the fact that if MLK had been alive he would be dissapointed in us as a people, Bill Cosby for putting our dirt out in public, and Barak Obama because he's taking the light off of them, and running a Prez campaign that trancends race......

          If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

          by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:57:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So.......what's your point? (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            esquimaux

            Besides the fact that I do believe that both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have spoken out against the language in rap and hip-hop, what's your point?

            They don't "make fun of"...they offend.  And they don't do it in a light-hearted way the way you might with a friend.  They do it in a downright offensive way.  And it's not funny to anyone but them.  If you aren't a white male over 30, you're not in on the joke.

            •  Okay let me see what my point is..... (0+ / 0-)

              First you say...

              "They disrespect women every single day.   They hardly ever have women on (except Mary "Cruella" Matalin) and when they do - like Amy Rorbach (?) - they belittle her at every opportunity."

              And I shoot that out the water....  Then you say, "But, that doesn't change the fact that they disrespect women nearly every single day."  

              Then I put everything into context and inform you that they "disrespect" everyone everyday including the Imus and Bernard every single day not just Blacks and Women..

              You still haven't commented on the Aaron McGruder, Barak Obama, or the Bill Cosby points that I brought up.  Neither did Jesse or Al held picket lines in front of BET when they had UNCUT videos....

              And I have to inform you of what is my point??

              Besides the comments that has everyone in a panic attack mode, could you let me know what he said five minutes before the "comments".....

              If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

              by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:20:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You didn't shoot anything "out of the water." (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                esquimaux

                I don't know what's working in your little mind, but you didn't "shoot anything out of the water."  

                They disrespect women every single day.  I don't give a shit if a few Washington/NYC pundits come on every now and again as the token women.  That does not change the fact that they disrespect women every single day.  As well as African-Americans, Jews, Latinos, Asians, Muslims...the list goes on and on.  And they don't do it in a "funny" way.  They do it in an offensive manner.  Maybe they think getting away with saying such racist things on the air is the joke.  But, I doubt it.  If you watch them on MSBC, Bernard is rarely smiling when he delivers such hate.  Whatever it is, it's time for it to stop.  It's past time.

                And you know, we can have a conversation without it turning to the nasty tone that I'm sensing from you.

                Why are you on such a mission to defend these clearly racist, bigoted men?

                •  I'm not angry at all, please don't take it that, (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Scout Finch

                  way.....  If I thought that these guys were racist or bigoted men, I wouldn't waste my time by watching them in the morning while getting myself ready for work and my children (two boys, both Black like me, the youngest more light-skinned because of our Native American heritage) ready for school.  

                  I have seen Don cry on television while talking about going to a black child's funeral that died from cancer.  I have seen Bernie help out a Black man down on his luck while doing a skit from Central Station.  These are people that have hearts but have a sense of humor that most people (From what I see) don't want to see or too touchy to talk about so they want to give them their last wish and take them out to a firing squad.....  This show has helped raised millions for children and military members.....  (Full disclosure, a 12year+ vet).....  

                  They are the first to say the lack of help for the people in Katrina was due to their black skin.  Lieberman tried to say it wasn't but came around to the point that if something like this had happen in the Appalachian Mountains Bush would have been impeached......

                  I watch them everyday, and Benard has a hard time staying in "character" every time he does an impersonation.....  The one person I did think was a racist bastard was Sid Rosenberg, and they fired him....  He still appears from time to time, but hey......

                  If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

                  by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:46:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes, Sid was bad. (0+ / 0-)

                    And I agree that Imus has done a great deal from a charity standpoint.  And I appreciate him constantly pushing Diedra's products.  I'm not saying that he's an all around evil guy.  Although I do think that of Bernard.  It's just that the tone that they use is not the tone that people use when joking around with each other about our differences.   I just don't get that sense from them.  I mean, when they called the Rutger's women "nappy-headed ho's", I literally gasped out loud and almost put my mascara all over my face!  And that was followed by "the jiggaboos versus the wannabes"?  No mam.  That's just too far for me.  And if you are a regular watcher, you know that that type of language and that general disrespect is there all the time.  I believe that Imus believes that he's not racist.  Unfortunately, it's not so "black and white".  I imagine racism to have a scale, sort of like the Kinsey scale.  Everybody has some varying degree.  I don't think Imus walks down the street thinking "I hate black people."  But, thoughtless and patently offensive comments like the ones he made last week prove that he does in fact harbor some degree of racism.  And with Bernard, I think it's blatant.

                    Overall, I guess that I've just had enough.  The bad outweighs the good for me when it comes to Imus.  I wish he weren't on MSNBC.  I mean, can't they find someone who actually is funny that can attract top notch politicians and pundants?  

                    At the very least I would like to see Bernard fired.  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on it.  But, if we can't talk about it, we certainly can never get over it.

                    •  I agree to disagree with you :) (0+ / 0-)

                      ,but the thing is besides him, who else on MSNBC beats Faux Noise at any time during the day????  He takes stands on some issues that I can't stand, like his loyalty to Lieberfan, and Santorum, but he does great interviews, and he makes me laugh all the time.....

                      So if he goes, who is going to take in his kids with cancer during the summer, or raise money for disabled vets?  Who is going to give groups like the Blind Boys of Alabama a forum for America to see????

                      I just don't see the racism that everyone sees, but hey to each their own....  I see crude humor, sometimes it goes over the line for some people, but not me.....  But hey, my wife and mother think I'm a asshole too...

                      If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

                      by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 07:29:13 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  He can still take in the sick kids. (0+ / 0-)

                        He'll just have to do it full-time.  And he can still raise money for Vets.  Frankly, I can't stand that he almost exclusively showcases country artists, but to each their own when it comes to music.

                        Like I said, I'm not the PC police.   Shit, I listen to Howard Stern daily.  But, I just hope that you'll take into account how many women are outraged over this and respect where we are coming from.  Hopefully we'll meet at Daily Kos and talk about it over a beer.

                        Now, I'm going to get back to Gonzo-Gate......

                        •  Quick note, my wife didn't have a problem (1+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          Scout Finch

                          with it, because she knows how he is, however my mom had a problem because they are someone's children....  Didn't think about it like that, probably because men athletes in college catch hell all the time, and no one says a damn thing about it....  Most of the time it's black kids that get the brunt of it.....

                          L8R

                          If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

                          by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 07:46:50 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

    •  Bernard = Imus (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Rimjob, boadicea, mcfly, Scout Finch, cfk, esquimaux

      Bernard and Imus are interchangeable.  Bernard is Imus's plausible deniability.

      Here's the Imus show schtick.  Bernard McGuirk makes an outrageous, offensive statement.  There is a brief moment of silence.  Then the entire crew, Imus included, burst into laughter and begin to discuss how what Bernard has said is so wrong, in the meantime, repeating his original statement again and again.  

      So everyone thinks Bernard is a hard-core racist and Imus is not.  But they're all in on the racist, sexist, you-name-the-offense jokes.  Bernard says it first, then they all get to repeat it and laugh.  Bernard says 'hard-core hos' and Imus repeats and embellishes it.  He is a stone racist.  Bernard is his Cartman.  They all participate in the joke once Bernard gives them their offensive topic.

      Read the transcript of the Rutgers porn with that in mind.

      IMUS: So, I watched the basketball game last night between -- a little bit of Rutgers and Tennessee, the women's final.

      ROSENBERG: Yeah, Tennessee won last night -- seventh championship for [Tennessee coach] Pat Summitt, I-Man. They beat Rutgers by 13 points.

      IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --

      McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

      IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

      McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

      IMUS: Yeah.

      McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had.

      IMUS: Yeah, it was a tough --

      McCORD: Do The Right Thing.

      McGUIRK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

      IMUS: I don't know if I'd have wanted to beat Rutgers or not, but they did, right?

      ROSENBERG: It was a tough watch. The more I look at Rutgers, they look exactly like the Toronto Raptors.

      IMUS: Well, I guess, yeah.

      RUFFINO: Only tougher.

      McGUIRK: The [Memphis] Grizzlies would be more appropriate.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. H.L. Mencken

      by hockeyrules on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:05:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm A Regular Stern Listener...... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      boadicea, Scout Finch

      .....And a lot of the jokes from Howard, Robin & the gang are done from a humorous place, with the guests a lot of the time going along with it (although Richard Simmons seems to leave crying a lot). I can't remember Howard in recent memory saying anything as vile as what Imus did.

      With Imus' show, it has a more spiteful feel to some of the comments he makes, with it seeming to come from a place of what they actually believe.

      Howard, Robin & Fred have also talked about the way Imus & Bernard treated staff at WNBC when both Howard & Imus worked there together. It seems Imus had no problem throwing around the "N-word" off the air to Robin, and some of the others who worked at the station. Fred has talked about almost kicking his ass on one occasion.

  •  Anna - Please change the first paragraph. (0+ / 0-)

    They competed in the National Championship game and were the absolute Cinderella team of the tournament, but they ultimately lost to very good Tennesse team.

  •  I remember Imus from 20 years ago... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    anna, QuickSilver, esquimaux

    From the start, Video Hits One was branded as an urbane version of its sister/parent channel. It played more jazz and R&B artists than MTV and had a higher rotation of urban-contemporary performers. Its early on-camera personalities were New York radio veterans Don Imus (of WNBC and now WFAN); Frankie Crocker, program director and DJ for WBLS; Scott Shannon (of Z100); Jon Bauman ("Bowzer" from Sha Na Na); and Rita Coolidge

    He was a strange bird, even back then.
    After a particular Sade song,(Smooth Operator) he referred to her as looking like a brown grape. And he would repeat that after each of her videos.
    "Doesn't she look like a brown grape?"

    I thought it was mean, stupid thing to say, and totally uncalled for. I mean, who was this mangy-looking idiot, to make fun of anyone's looks?

    "I'm not a Muslim,...not that there's anything wrong with it." what Obama should say

    by steelman on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 04:53:32 PM PDT

  •  I posted this on another diary (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    boadicea, esquimaux

    I am done, done, done.

    I sent this e mail with the subject line Imus must go:

    http://www.viewerservices@msnbc.com

    I have had enough.  I have granddaughters and I am SICK of this outrage on the airways.

    If Imus worked in a regular job, he would have been fired LONG AGO for harrassment.

    Women have worked so long and so hard and they don't deserve this kind of talk.  We are human beings, not the targets of laughter by a sick mind.

    I doubt his apology since he says he will only "play so long."  He has apologized before and it didn't stick.  

    FIRE HIM, NOW!!!!  No woman wants to hear this voice ever again, trust me on that.

    That he calls his wife names regularly just sickens me more!!!!!

    Join us at Bookflurries: Bookchat on Wednesday nights 8:00 PM EST

    by cfk on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 05:06:19 PM PDT

  •  Blast away, (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    fromdabak

    Who wins if Imus resigns?

    1. The autistic and cancer kids at his ranch...no they lose
    1. The next private medical rehab center...no they lose as well
    1. Do the voice of the powerful get another voice to call them out...no
    1. Do all the charity events he attends in NY and raises money for...no,he moves to NM and lives out his life in peace.

    4.Does Imus lose....not at all, he has enough money for his family well into 2-3 generations.
    5.Does A. Sharpton/ J. Jackson win...yes because it's always about them. Like myself, I wanted the Duke player hung from the highest tree, till the truth is finally comes out. Where is their apology for trying to exacerbate unrest in NC, besides no where to be found.

    Yes, African suffer prejudices without a doubt and it's terrible and needs to end! I too suffered to a lesser extent as a jew growing up in the 60's, when people  used to say "he's such a goddamned jew" I was totally confused what that meant at 7 yrs old.

    Imus deserves to be punished no doubt,  and a 2 week suspension hardly seems like more than a slap on wrist. However, does anyone know why he was not suspended this week instead next? Because he is running a fund raiser this week on the show or was. So hang Imus, forget a commitment to hire African Americans for his show, to bring another fund raiser to the needy.

    So I ask, who really wins if Imus is fired? I say no one except those that want to be right! May the example set by the Women and Coach of the Rutgers basketball team be an example to all of us, that's was grace at it's best.

  •  That hateful generation simply needs to die off (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    esquimaux

    The current and future generations will be forced to interact with folks of different races,creeds,religons etc.
    They will have to adapt or also die off too.

    Interacial marriages are becoming more common (esp black men Vs other races)and hopefully this issue will peter out with time

    •  There is as much hate in this generation as (0+ / 0-)

      previous ones.....  If you disagree with anyone on this site about one single issue, here comes the beat-down squad.....  For example, I disagreed with a diary comparing Homosexual's civil rights struggle to that of African-Americans civil rights struggle, and I got called every name but one...  I was labeled intollerant, a bigot and everything, even though I am for equal rights for all....  Even though I marched in a Gay Rights parade with my favorite cousin.  I stopped buying anyone's CD that used the F-word....  But NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!  If it isn't in the category that people want, you are the intollerant one.....  Something is wrong with etc. etc......  

      If Jesus and his 12 disciples lived in the inner-city, they would all be falsely arrested for being gang-members..

      by fromdabak on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 06:04:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Please don't make this about age (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      boadicea

      There are many of my friends, my age (61) who are active in the causes of peace, justice and equality than any other age group.   Many of my friends children in their 20s, 30s and even 40s, tend to be neocons, tend to be racist and sexist.

      I really resent the notion that this is about a certain age group.   Imus is 66 but he does not represent most of us boomers or preboomers.   If you assume that, can I then, assume that Tucker Carlson, Anne Coulter, and Michelle Malkin represent the younger generation?  Obviously that is a stupid premise, and I do hope you understand that blaming Imus'  ignorance, misogyny and racism on a generation is just as wrong.

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