Daily Kos

Legal Seminar Day 1 WOW! A Revolution has come

Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 09:29:09 PM PDT

Gene Zimmerman is teaching legal seminars and I am taking it in Ava MO. I started today at 8 am and he talked until 7 pm, unhurried, funny,brilliant and so revolutionary that I think he makes many kossacks look conservative. Just wait until I get to some of the meat. This is what we have been waiting for but didn't know it. We have lost our rights because we don't know we have them and do not have the knowledge to protect ourselves. Well, that knowledge started pouring out today and went on for eleven hours. Two short potty breaks and lunch intervened. I have not sat in a room of people so focussed for years and years, without all that silly questioning and second guessing that goes on in classrooms the world over.

This was an overview inundating us with his philosophy of active resistance to what they are doing to us in the courts. Continue for a sampling that may save you, a family or friend, your property etc if you heed it.

Do not enter a plea of guilty, not guilty or no contest. They will phrase it so you are led to believe you must choose one of the three. You do not have to choose. If you do you give your stamp of approval on everything that has happened so far. If there is any possibility of jail they cannot put you in without your having representation. You are entitled to an attorney of your choice but you don't want one.

Repeat after me:"I am in want of counsel and I cannot proceed without advice of counsel." Then they canot take it to trial. Do not answer any question. Just repeat the mantra. And that means good morning! You can lose by disobeying this advice. You act in good faith and make appointments with attorneys then say things that will make them refuse your case. Keep dates and times for reporting that you are trying very hard to find counsel.

Our wonderful Ginsburg in a case brought before the Supremes said in her opinion on it:How can one know they are forfeiting their rights unless counsel tells them? And this is the crux of that case.

Then he asked us how many of us had read Roe vs Wade. Then he asked how many of us knew anyone who had read Roe vs Wade. Then he said all people know of it is what the media has fed them. Here is his quote on Roe.

The Supreme Court said, "We do not have authority over the unborn child. If it could be shown to us that we have authority over the unborn child we would prohibit."

Gulp. And then he said that the states do prohibit.

In Burdett vs Texas (spelling?)"Counsel not of your choice can be more detrimental to your interests than no attorney."

He then proceeded to framing. Hear that Conceptual Guerilla! In the first document you present before the court you say, "All words employed in the court of this litigation shall be defined as such words are defined in Blacks Law Dictionary revised 4th edition. If the words are not found in this Black then (here choose your dictionary of choice.) Put that phrase in your first document.

This is how you control spin. Still with me?

For example shall is an imperative, but cannot be used if it causes you to give up your constitutional rights. The word require does not do that to you.

You must make truth appear as truth. Do not conceal it.

Written documents to be filed. It is much better to file documents than to talk.

Then he begins on the subject of jurisdiction which he says never goes away. Example. The FBI can make no arrest outside of federal territory. Because the federal government has no jurisdiction. So he takes the case of picketing an abortion clinic. Five went to jail for this particular case of picketing. One did not because he stood up in court and said, and only said this, Judge, you do not have jurisdiction. The clinic was private property. The other ones had lawyers and they went to jail. The one he was advising did not because he challenged on jurisdiction.

Is all this new to you? It was to me today. By this time I am gaping. Then he covered default judgements, evading summons, suing for breach of contract, ordinanance violation (that's me with my dog and garden). When the government is the plaintiff they must follow criminal codes. In a civil suit you do not go to jail, but the government has the right to jail you (if you slip up). So you say,Judge will you be following civil or criminal rules? The judge will tell you to ask your lawyer. Then you say how do I know whether to get a criminal or civil lawyer unless I know which rules you will be following. It is all designed to confuse you, lead you into the trap of giving up your rights.

He covers the types of public office:
1.Ministariel Duty (robot, no choosing)
2.Discretionary (can make judgements within certain defined boundaries

So if a ministariel official obstructs you, (like a recorder of deeds)fails or refuses ministariel duties you can ruin them. They are under bond and you let them know that you know that. They will turn pasty pale and do what you want. The bondsman will pull the bond and you can take everything they own. They have 10 days to replace the bond or they are out of office.

And there is so much more just from today. Ways to protect yourself from all sorts of litigation against you. Ways to win litigtion hands down.

Never hire a lawyer. Never.

Example again. Gene was stopped while driving. He says, "Is there a problem?"
Cop;"You have a cracked tail light."
Gene:"Yes I know but a cracked tail light is not illegal. Casting a white light is. Are all of you stopping cars tonight on this incident because I got stopped up the road for the same thing a few minutes ago."

The cop gets back in his car and goes away. He knows that Gene knows the law. They only pick on innocents.

A contract between two parties is illegal if it is being done for a criminal reason. I have a contract for you to pick me up at 9 am tomorrow at such and such because I am robbing a bank and I want you to be the getaway car. If you don't come I have no breach of contract because the contract was part of a criminal action.

Now do you know your bank has engaged in criminal violation of Title XII of US Code when you got your mortgage from them? Well a simple four page letter sent to them and they quit your mortgage down to zero. Sounds fantastic. He's done it. You can do it. Then he goes into the entire banking system and how it is cheating us every day. For me it was like a review of Marx's Das Capital and for most of the class it was a revelation, a new one, and they had trouble with their moral feelings about doing the bank in.

What I have given you is just the tiniest tip of the iceberg of this course. I shall try to diary each night even though I am falling asleep from the intense concentration. If I had kept on with my dog and garden case I could have pinned the prosecutor's ears back with cement glue. I did make a few errors in the beginning. He may still bother me as he might ot like my reordering of my back yard. He and I have gone a long way since the first day in court in August when he screamed at me that he would take my dogs and put them in the pound and put me in jail! Now he wants me to just go away. The trick for pro se is not to be in a hurry. They will win if you are as you will make a mistake. Your strategy is to outwait them. And always control the framing. Always.

Gene Zimmerman has a personal horror story that got him here. He wishes to teach people how to do what he does and has been doing for over 25 years. He told me that 12 people in each state doing this full time would start reversing our loss of freedom in about 2 years.

Tags: civil rights, mortgages, Supreme Court, ruth bader ginsburg, Roe v. Wade, Gene Zimmerman, litigation, Title XII (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 129 comments

  •  Good Stuff (7+ / 0-)

    I'm bookmarking this.

    "The original Star Trek is the Word." Bones: Chapter 1, verse 1

    by steelman on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 09:30:17 PM PDT

  •  Very Interesting (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    abbeysbooks, Tigana, uniongal, kafkananda

    I knew it would be. When's the next installment?

    I'm the person your mother warned you about.

    by Unique Material on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 09:32:13 PM PDT

  •  tipjar (23+ / 2-)

    And go over to the upper right and hit recommend so people can save their property, their lifestyles, their friends, their family.

    I think Kunstler would love it too.

    FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

    by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 09:36:08 PM PDT

    •  WOW (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      abbeysbooks, Tigana

      just WOW!!

      The hippies had it right all along...it's about time the media, the politicians, the culture as a whole sent out a big, wet, hemp-covered apology.MMorford

      by RiaD on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 10:24:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Trolled because (5+ / 1-)

      Recommended by:
      SarahLee, Adam B, raines, MajorFlaw, OHdog
      Hidden by:
      abbeysbooks

      it is TREMENDOUSLY bad advice, based upon absurd and often paranoid fantasies, designed to obstruct the law.  We are a nation of laws. Our complaint about Bush is that he does not follow the law. But now, for some unexplainable reason, we applaud very bad advice about how to disrupt the legal process?

      Further, almost everything above is just plain wrong (see comment way below for explanations).  Not just wrong, but dangerously wrong, for it will lead to contempt citations, fines, confiscations, and perhaps even incarceration.

      REMOVE THIS DIARY.  Not because you are ill-intentioned, but because you are foolish. Worse, some here might follow the advice, not knowing how bad it is.  Do you really want that on your head?

      Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

      by dhonig on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 04:35:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I am waiting tomorrow with bated breath. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    abbeysbooks, Tigana, uniongal

    Or just take good notes and write a humdinger when you can.

    The idea that two years of this would take back the justice system is something that should be considered.

    •  We have got to do it. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Tigana, RiaD, FOS

      We need to get enough people nterested in taking it. 10 people registered and he will do it. Anywhere. Let's go for it.

      Lawyers who have taken it tell him that his two week 80 hour (really more)course was better than the first three years of law school.

      Most lawyers do not know this stuff. He said he would not be afraid to take on any lawyer, in any state.

      FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

      by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 10:13:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How much does it cost? How do we contact him? (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        abbeysbooks

        I have some relatives who might be very interested in this.  Hell, I'm interested in this!

        •  email me and I'll give you his contact number (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Tigana

          A commitment of 10 people @$500 each for two weeks. Cheap cheap cheap. He is not doing it for the money but to impact the legal system.

          Has anyone lost a property they might like to try to get back? I do.

          Yes do it. You will look at the clock and two hours have gone by and you were just in a trance.

          FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

          by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:21:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Abbey, I do not know how to email you. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            abbeysbooks

            But I am personally desperate to talk to someone like him.  Could you please contact me.

            jaiyoduuuh@yahoo.com

          •  Not doing it for the money?!? (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            SarahLee, raines, abbeysbooks, MajorFlaw

            are you high?  That's $2500 per week, BEFORE he sells you his books, and his forms, and all the other folderal.  And I would bet that the ten people per state also kick money back to him when they run their seminars.

            This is dangerously bad advice.  DELETE THIS DIARY.

            Done with politics for the night? Have a nice glass of wine with Two Days per Bottle.

            by dhonig on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 04:37:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  $5000 for two weeks is not a lot (0+ / 0-)

              He lives in WI and stays at a motel during the week and through the weekend. He drives 1600 miles round trip to get here and return. He has meals to buy on his long commute and meals every day while he is here for two weeks including the weekend. Not much pay in my opinion

              There are two books, neither by him. One is a Barnes and Noble reprint of Sun Tzu's The Art of War because that's what we are in with the people in our legal system cheating us and jailing us. The other book is The Law-The Classic Blueprint for a Just Society by Frederic Bastiat who died in 1850.

              My friends are not getting a penny. They arranged it. In fact they are lending me half the amount so I can take it as I had doggie med bills I didn't expect.

              I suggest you get facts before you sound off like a fundie.

              FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

              by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:45:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Knowledge is power (5+ / 0-)

    ignorance is slavery

  •  I've got to go to bed so I will be alert tomorrow (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Tigana, RiaD, KenBee

    I told him I am blogging this and he was happy about it. I asked him if he would come on the comments towards the end and he was receptive to that. So save all   your legal questions for then.

    Just what we've always wanted. Great, free legal advice. And when someone in the class asks a question you get all the reasoning behind it. I am just starting to anticipate what he is going to say before he says it.

    Most of what he does involves constitutional issues.

    You have the constitutional right to move about freely. It they take your driving license so you can't, they have violated your constitutional rights. They can't do that legally. Driving about is a right, not a privilege.

    FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

    by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 10:18:23 PM PDT

  •  Please go up to the right and recommend (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Tigana

    So it will be on in the am and scare the shit out of some lurkers.

    God they don't want anyone to know this stuff.

    FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

    by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 10:19:43 PM PDT

    •  If this gets R's . . . (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dhonig, Tigana, debedb

      it should scare the shit out of some regulars.  Just sayin'.

      •  it scares me (4+ / 0-)

        but I recommended it :)

        •  That's your call to make. (6+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          SarahLee, dhonig, raines, abbeysbooks, debedb, kurt

          I honestly hope that few people see it or take it seriously.  This is a type of scam that has been around for ages, "secret" information that is really public information but nobody knows about it.  Just say the magic words and the tools of the court systems will yield to your powerful knowledge.  Just get ten suckers to pony up $500 each and you too can get the power.  I believe that calling bullshit on this type thing is one of the reasons I am here.  Nothing personal, perhaps a worthwhile discussion will result.

          •  I know (1+ / 1-)

            Recommended by:
            MajorFlaw
            Hidden by:
            abbeysbooks

            In fact, though, I was recommending it so that
            it gets some more serious debunking... (that and
            I enjoy these bogus theories, they're just such fun...)

          •  dude I think this is so tame though (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            abbeysbooks

            my new favorite one is this:

            http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

            http://www.halexandria.org/...

            this is some hardcore stuff

            •  Nice links n/t (0+ / 0-)

              FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

              by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:57:21 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  whoa hold on a second (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                abbeysbooks

                you are not serious, right?

                •  I like reading both sides of every story (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  debedb

                  I studied under Greenspan when he was at the Ayn Rand Institute and then he became the anti hero but the Randians never acknowledged that.

                  All that anti government stuff has some ammunition on its side. Bernard-Henri Levy discusses the two big empire systems and lays a pox on both their houses. Capitalism has major problems and as we know it is corrupt. And so is the Communistic system. Socialism such as Sweden I like but see its problems. Such as a huge alcohol problem so they tax it to the max to fund recovery places. And the art in Stockholm has no cutting edge at all.

                  FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

                  by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:05:28 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Keep on reading as you will get more and more (0+ / 0-)

            info. The mantra I am in want of council.... works like magic. The judge has trouble with this. Try it sometime.

            Let's see about secret information. No it's not secret just buried in deep legal dungeons where you won't find it and lawyers forget it's there.

            Example: Did you know you don't have to file a 1040 if you already have a W-2? It's in the US code and I bet you didn't know that it says in lieu of 1040 is legal. I'll get you the cite another day as I wasn't writing fast enough but it was read aloud to us by my friend.

            I paid much more to do EST with Werner and Insight with John Rogers in the mid 70's and early 80's when money was worth much more. $250 for five  11 hour days is cheap in my opinion. That's less than $5 an hour, isn't it?

            The magic words are: I am in want of counsel and I cannot proceed without counsel.

            FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

            by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:55:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The magic words (0+ / 0-)

              will get you a court-appointed lawyer whose office, in some states, will go after you for unpaid legal fees if your income is too high.

              You can't beat the court system by refusing to play.  They own the arena.  They can shove you onto the field if you try to have the match called on account of your coach not showing up.

              People who believe otherwise end up without time to prepare for trial and often with lawyers they don't trust because they haven't sat down and discussed their cases in depth.

              This is only th tip of the Titanic iceberg that is Mr Zimmerman's appalling display of ignorance of the law.

        •  Thanks and keep on each night (0+ / 0-)

          as I am learning so much I didn't know and at last feel I can handle the legal system myself instead of having lawyers cheat me over and over. With the exception of a very few as I have already said on this thread. Wait until you read Day 2.

          FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

          by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:47:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If you're going on Zimmerman's advice, (0+ / 0-)

            do yourself a favor and get rid of all your assets, as you will lose them if you listen to him.  From your description of the seminar, he knows as much about the law as I do about rocket science.  Which is nothing, as I got a C in Chem II and quit it more than 20 years ago.

            Please reconsider.  All the lawyers put together who've "cheated" you will pale into insignificance when compared with the utter destruction Zimmerman's theories will wreak on your financial life.

  •  wtf? (9+ / 0-)

    half of it sounds like ramblings of a wingnut
    conspiracy theorist.

    Judge will you be following civil or criminal rules? The judge will tell you to ask your lawyer. Then you say how do I know whether to get a criminal or civil lawyer unless I know which rules you will be following. It is all designed to confuse you, lead you into the trap of giving up your rights.

    I've heard a similar one somewhere before...
    Like here http://www.adl.org/...

    For example shall is an imperative, but cannot be used if it causes you to give up your constitutional rights. The word require does not do that to you.

    You must make truth appear as truth. Do not conceal it.

    Wtf does that even mean? You're confused and confusing the hell out of everyone, and because it's confusing, you think it sounds like legalese?

    Now do you know your bank has engaged in criminal violation of Title XII of US Code when you got your mortgage from them? Well a simple four page letter sent to them and they quit your mortgage down to zero.

    This is really nuts... I am recommending for the
    pleasure of reading further discussion.

  •  Who is this guy ? (9+ / 0-)

    Never heard of him, and Google isn't helping !

    Been a lawyer myself for 25 years and some of this stuff sounds nuts to me. I sometimes hear pro pers come into court spouting stuff that sounds like this, but everybody in the courtroom generally rolls their eyes, verbally pats the person on the head, and then the case is either continued in hopes somebody who knows what they are doing will show up, or taken off calendar. And I'm talking civil AND criminal cases.

    Let's get some Democracy for America

    by murphy on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 10:42:12 PM PDT

    •  what never ceases to amaze me (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dhonig, abbeysbooks, MajorFlaw, kurt, FischFry

      is this. If the conspiracy is so vast and overreaching, then why would there be a way out
      by what amounts to a spell - some phrase that you
      say in this corrupt court, and the Kafkaesque
      guardians are like, oh, ok, never mind.

      •  Well I just followed step by step (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Tigana, kurt, yoduuuh do or do not

        what my friend got from him and told me. I kept saying I needed counsel and they went bananas. It went on from August 06 until last week when the prosecutor made a deal to drop it. I just wasn't afraid and started to enjoy myself. My intention communicated to the court. Plus I filed pauper status so there was nothing they were going to get. Everyone else there just stands up  says guilty and accepts the penalty. I didn't and got off without anything.

        Criminal Rule 37 is the Supremes decision on adminstrative court. Once I studied that I saw how they had broken the law with me by forcing me to trail without representation. And on another blog about IN law a woman was judged without counsel and they were ranting about it.

        Yes it does sound crazy I agree. It's all done with respect in court and no ranting.

        FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

        by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:30:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The only way you got a deal (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          abbeysbooks

          was the prosecutor deciding it wasn't worth his/her time to prosecute.  It had nothing to do with the magic phrase "I don't have counsel".  I don't want to be nosy, nor do I want to encourage you to go into details on the internet.  But I don't think I'm out of line saying that if it was a criminal matter it was probably a very minor misdemeanor.  If it was a civil matter (which I doubt, as you're talking about "prosecutors") the amount of money was probably negligible.

          No laws are broken by forcing you to trial without representation.  First of all, you didn't go to trial.  Second of all, if you had gone to trial on a criminal matter you would have had counsel appointed for you if you didn't retain your own.  Third of all, if it was a civil matter, you wouldn't have any Constitutional right of counsel.  That's only for people "accused of crimes".

    •  Free advice from another lawyer. (9+ / 0-)

      This diary is dangerous.  I've been practicing for more than 20 years and I strongly recommend that people do not rely on anything this guy says without strong, independent confirmation.  This is at least the second diary this author has posted pimping this seminar program:

      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      A word to the wise, proceed with caution.

  •  What are GZ's professional credentials? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    abbeysbooks, kurt, zionazi

    I tried googling him and found nothing.

    •  I didn't get anything either (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Tigana, kurt

      but then I don't think he goes after a high profile about anything. He just keeps doing his thing. When he gets stopped he makes an issue out of it. When I get stopped I play polite and nice and the officer makes nice and I go on.

      He does not believe they have a right to stop him so he acts accordingly.

      For example take that Tammy Grimes story abut her rescuing the semi comatose dog from his chain in the yard, taking him to a safe house, and refusing to give him back to his family to escape the charges brought against her. Well she's already in pretty deep with mistakes but will probably come out OK. But she intended to make an issue.

      Or that substitute teacher someone wrote about here whose classroom computer started popping up porno and she couldn't get rid of it and ran down the hall for help. She ended up being prosecuted for showing porno in her classroom, got so upset she had a miscarriage. And ends up begging for internet money for counsel. Well Zimmerman would make them pay big time.

      He used to have a manufacturing business that was a family business.
      They designed and made parts for war equipment. A sad story follows that I won't go into tonight. No law degree. Just a business person.

      Now me, I'm credentialed up the wazoo and it does me no good at all here in the Ozarks. Just makes me an object of suspect.

      FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

      by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:40:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How does he advertise for seminars? Wouldn't (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        abbeysbooks

        he have something online?  I haven't found word 1 of him on google.  

        He's not listed as a member of the Wisconsin bar, nor is he listed in Martindale-Hubble.  I'd love to know what state he's barred in, to be handing out horrible legal advice in all sorts of states all over the country.  

        I'd also like to know if he's not an attorney.  If he's not, he damned well ought to be worried about the unauthorised practice of (appallingly bad) law in any number of jurisdictions.

        There are no magic words to solve legal problems in the United States, or the world, or likely in the universe.  Anyone who tells you differently is selling something.  

        •  He is not an attorney (0+ / 0-)

          He helps a lot of people who have been victimized by the courts and does a lot of lititgation against banks.

          He doesn't advertise as it's all word of mouth.

          FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

          by abbeysbooks on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:12:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you, abbeysbooks (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    abbeysbooks

    Tipped and recc'd. Can this info be got to NOLA to stop the land grab?

  •  This is in some ways the ultimate troll diary (11+ / 0-)

    I read the original diary advertising this seminar. It's all about subverting our legal system -- provides a rodmap for delay, obfuscation, wilfull deception, bad faith contracting, and a host of other inexcusable, unjustifiable, immoral, sinful (if you're religious), unethical, despicable behaviors.

    I also think it's a bunch of horseshit. I feel sorry for anyone who has paid for such advice, or anyone who follows it, only to be sorely disappointed when your bank deosn't reduce your mortage rate because you write a fruitcake letter suggesting the mortgage is in violation of federal law.

    This sounds like the lunatic crap that was popular a few years ago, suggesting that the income tax is unconstitutional and that no one actually has to file or pay their assessed tax. Not everyone who followed such advice wound up being prosecuted, or sent to jail, but it was still a load of bullshit.

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

    by FischFry on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 10:53:33 PM PDT

    •  I wouldn't have put it exactly in those words (6+ / 0-)

      but buyer beware is always in order.

      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        and the proof is it has worked with me and my friends. It's like you can't be a little bit pregnant. You either do it all the way or get a lawyer to screw you. When you need a lawyer that's the worst time to try to find one of your choice. Same for a therapist. When you need one you are not in any emotional condition to shop around and make judgements.

        FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

        by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:06:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then you should take a look at some (0+ / 0-)

          when you're not in need of them, and find one who can work with you.

          In my experience, most people who feel "shafted" by their lawyers hire them on a case-by-case basis, and as a result cannot possibly get the best legal advice, because their lawyers don't know the history involved.  Or they hire a lawyer they don't get along with, which is just as much of a mistake.

          If you deal with that many lawyers, you ought to find one you can work with.  Following Zimmerman's advice will probably make you wish you had.  (Though I hope, for your sake, you don't follow it at all)

          •  Actually I did take your advice once (0+ / 0-)

            I engaged John Bruffet as I was going away for the winter and it was a just in case situation. He was the very worst. google him and you will see. He is from Ava MO.

            FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

            by abbeysbooks on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:16:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  it's scary (6+ / 0-)

      that it gets as many "me too" comments as it does!

    •  Well, here's what I figure. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      abbeysbooks, Tigana, kurt

      If it's wrong, it'll become pretty obvious over the next few days as the diaries keep coming.  If it's right, we live in one hell of a weird legal system.  (Weirder than I already thought, that is.)  Either way, I don't intend to test it, but it would sure be interesting to hear.

      (Heh!  Private property not being part of federal jurisdiction?  Damn, if that were true, tons of would-be criminals could get away with murder.  Literally!  So yes, I'm quite skeptical.  But I also can't help but be interested.)

      •  how will it be obvious? (5+ / 0-)

        as with all similar theories, there's no disproving it. If a judge laughs you out of courtroom for this,
        you'll just say that the judge acted illegally and
        unconstitutionally.

        •  Bingo. (6+ / 1-)

          Recommended by:
          Adam B, raines, celticshel, sooner, debedb, FischFry
          Hidden by:
          abbeysbooks

          In its own way, this is just as bad as the conspiracy theorists.  Anyone and anything which does not agree with them is part of the conspiracy.

        •  But you'll also leave court (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Adam B, celticshel, abbeysbooks, MajorFlaw

          several hundred, and perhaps several thousand dollars poorer than when you entered.  Assuming that no felonies have occurred.

          I wonder if the teacher has student's sign a liability waiver in advance (which would not even be valid in some states as I understand it).

          •  It doesn't cost you to do this yourself (3+ / 0-)

            Just time and patience.

            FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

            by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:55:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Liability for what? (8+ / 0-)

            He starts off by announcing he's not a lawyer, so he's not actually dispensing legal advice -- certainly not reliable professional advice. One would be hard pressed to hold him liable for one's own gullibility.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

            by FischFry on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:04:48 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I've paid for plenty of professional legal advice (2+ / 0-)

              thank you. And most of it sucked.

              FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

              by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:22:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  LOL. (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              SarahLee, Adam B, MajorFlaw

              Wow, that's troubling.

              Although I'm sure a smart lawyer could probably figure out a way put his non-professional legal theory to the test.

              If a person is teaches a class on law, dispensing legal advice, I'm not so sure that a disclaimer at the beginning stating "this is my non-professional opinion" would necessarily cover him in all states.  Especially if he is receiving compensation for dispensing legal advice under a "non-professional" cover.  My guess is that he's probably vetted his program through a lawyer. But even then, I'm wondering if he might be opening himself up to a nice statute of frauds, or class action suit.

              Wouldn't he still want people to sign a waiver acknowledging in writing "I understand that the advice received in this class is for entertainment purposes only"--or something to that effect?  A verbal disclosure might not be sufficient in some states.

              At least that's my non-professional opinion.

              •  A little clarification (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                abbeysbooks, NotGeorgeWill

                Despite the nomenclature, the "statute of frauds" has little to do with fraud. It's a rule about proving the existence of certain kinds of contracts. For whatever historical reasons, certain contracts have been deemed so important, or so subject to misinterpretation, or even the subject of fraud, that they are required to be in writing. The general rule is that contracts do not have to be in writing, unless they are of the type covered in the relevant jurisdictional statute of frauds.

                There is not much of a contract here. There is at best an offer to provide a brief service, in the form of the seminar, not a guarantee of the value of the advice given -- especially if he explains he's not a lawyer, that what he's giving isn't "legal" advice. I don't see how that puts you under a statute of frauds issue. It's not for a marriage, it can be performed within a year, it's not for sale of land or sale of goods, not related to an executor, and it's surely not a surety contract. (The acronym MYLEGS usually covers the staute of frauds).

                On the other hand, to the extent that his lecture does push the accuracy and effectiveness of his program, and encourages reliance on the program, precatory waivers may be deemed misleading and disregarded. A class action would be a possibility if enough folks are actually harmed in following his advice.

                Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

                by FischFry on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 04:14:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Appreciate the clarification. n/t (0+ / 0-)

                •  Did you know (0+ / 0-)

                  that if there is any ambiguity in a contract, or misrepresentation to confuse a party etc, that the author of the contract is the one the court will take to task if the other party makes it a legal fight.

                  So if you find a contract you have authored is misleading upon a rereading how do you remedy that? I just found out today.

                  FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

                  by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:12:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Only remedy is renegotiation (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    celticshel, abbeysbooks

                    Are you really sure it's amiguous? It is axiomatic in law that courts will hold the amiguity against the drafter -- that is they will find the imterpretation that favors the other guy -- unless you can show some mutual mistake -- in that case, the contract can be reformed or rescinded. But, if you're already thinking about the courts, you're headed down the wrong path -- contracts should work for both parties -- shouldn't think of it in an adversarial way.

                    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

                    by FischFry on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 09:00:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  The only remedy is not renegotiation (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      debedb

                      It is something else. In fact there are two very good options. I'll let you know after I do it.

                      FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

                      by abbeysbooks on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 07:18:24 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  It certainly makes it very much more clear (0+ / 0-)

                why his fees are so "low".  Wouldn't want the State Bar of whatever state you're in thinking you're charging lawyers' fees, would you?  

                Especially if your non-professional opinion is the legal equivalent of saying you were abducted by aliens who demand you be acquitted so you can become their ruler.

        •  He wasn't laughing me out (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Tigana, NotGeorgeWill

          He wants me to have counsel because he can't legally go to trial if I don't. first they bully you. then it's good cop bad cop. Then they cajole you. They try everything to get you to plead and to get a a lawyer. Then they can do what they want. And they do.

          FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

          by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:54:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You don't have to *test* them. (6+ / 0-)

          That's a waste of time in this case (and too risky...I'd never test the law even if it looked like a sure win).  All you need is a little logic and common sense.  He's making fantastic claims.  That requires fantastic proof.  If he has verifiable documentation of actual court cases (and he should if what he claims is true), then it's a no-brainer.  I'd also like to hear from previous students on how his advice worked out for them.

          And if it's all a nice pony, well, I for one don't follow the old adage "never look a gift horse in the mouth."  (I may not complain about it, but I'm damn sure going to look.)

          •  Definitely do look. (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Tigana, kurt, NotGeorgeWill

            I am going by my friends integrity and their success and their ability to advise me as to what to do and why they advise x and not y. When I told what happened in administrative court when the judge bullied me( and he's a nice judge)into the trial without counsel, Mike said he can't do that, he can't say that. But he did. Then when I got the criminal Rules book and read Rule 37 which applies to administrative court in MO I understood why he couldn't but did anyway. It's very detailed. So basically the judge and the prosecutor just trampled all over Rule 37 and since I hadn't studied it not expecting to go to trial that day, I didn't know my rights were being violated until I read it and remembered what they had done.

            So if you don't know your rights then you might as well not have them. It amounts to the same thing.

            FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

            by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:31:07 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  In that case they had the local police arrest (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        yoduuuh do or do not

        the demonstrators. Then they were brought before a federal judge. The others were in jail about 5 months. The one just told the judge it wasn't his jurisdiction. No jail. No charges. No nothing.

        For anyone who has been dragged through the mill by a lawyer or lawyers they know the system stinks. Look at the OJ trial. A circus. A multi million dollar circus. Is that what it takes to kill and get off?

        And the ones on death row who get freed by DNA testing? Or the innocent ones who die? I have no respect for the court in my experience. With a couple of exceptions.

        Well I certainly am going to do as much as I can and will let everyone know how it goes. I realize in my latest one I made errors. And once you do you get in the muck and it's harder to free yourself. Once I filed for trial de novo there was a sea change. The prosecutor is just pimping for the city's coffers. One day I started adding up the money and was apalled when I realized how very much they were getting from some very poor wretches. No wonder they want to drown govt in the bathtub. Around here in my neonredtown they make you hate govt.

        FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

        by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:52:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  He isn't in the IRS system since the mid 70's (0+ / 0-)

      He doesn't advocate anyne do it. If you do it you must know exactly how to do it.

      FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

      by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:43:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you pay your taxes.. (3+ / 0-)

        That's what the IRS is concerned with -- not filing a return can make it hard for the IRS to determine if you're paying the correct amount, but it's the nonpayment the IRS is really concerned with, not the failure to file a return. There have been prosecutions for nonpayment -- some of the more public violators. The return is your opportunity to justify deductions. If you want to pass on that...

        Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

        by FischFry on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 12:02:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  My friend Mike never files (0+ / 0-)

      FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

      by abbeysbooks on Mon Apr 16, 2007 at 11:43:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ah, fisch... how wrong you are in your assessment! (0+ / 0-)

      as someone who has had to negotiate the legal system on a number of issues - from landlord/tenant (my landlord and i were legendary in ny in the 70s-80s - all the judges knew us by name!  i only slipped up once in 9 years!) to contract violations by unscrupulous companies - to the creep who illegally sold my horses... knowing the law and how the "rules" work makes the difference in being successful or totally trashed in a courtroom.

      the law is based on rules and procedures - and for the person who does not know them, the old saying "ignorance of the law is no excuse" applies.

      navigating the legal system means going slowly and carefully through a legal minefield - but if you know where the "mines" are, then you get to present the evidence of your case and have it decided on the merits instead of losing on a technicality.

      getting redress from illegal charges IS possible - getting redress for MANY illegalities happens quickly IF you know the law that is applicable.

      knowing motor vehicle law means that you can fight and prevail in court over improper tickets. i know, i've done it.  i don't "do" it to escape culpability on MY part, i DO it to make sure i am not charged with something that i did not do! (like driving through firetrucks "parked in a cone pattern" and being charged with a double fine because the cop neglected to close an intersection!  i won that one easily by simply pleading not guilty - even while being strongly "enticed" by the court administrator to "take traffic school" - because the fines could be HIGHER if i lost my case.  i politely deferred and said "not guilty".  the officer never answered for the state - never - because there WAS no case.  there WAS no such "parking in a cone pattern" by firetrucks).

      next time, the officer will think twice about how he closes an intersection for the safety of the firemen AND the drivers on the road!

      your post is sadly off the mark because you are telling people NOT to challenge illegal behavior - to ACCEPT the abuses.  that is a very scary idea - because, unchecked, those abuses only get worse.

      •  This is not a fair: (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        celticshel, abbeysbooks, kurt

        you are telling people NOT to challenge illegal behavior - to ACCEPT the abuses.  that is a very scary idea - because, unchecked, those abuses only get worse.

        My reading of the parent post is that he/she is questioning the accuracy of the information given here, not the determination to challenge the system.  Big difference.

        •  Oh no he is out to purify the system (0+ / 0-)

          It is powerful but the people in it are uninformed, lack educational curiosity, are often corrupt, and or just plain lazy.

          I am planning to give you very accurate info. Go above and pick up one of my recent comments.

          FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

          by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:18:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  E.g.: (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SarahLee, Adam B, celticshel, abbeysbooks

      At the conference you learn that taxing violates our natural rights; and anyway, the Constitution does not permit an unapportioned direct tax like an income tax; and if you think the 16th Amendment took care of that, well, it wasn’t properly ratified; and even if it was, it didn’t give any new taxing powers to Congress; and even if it did, the statutes and codes of the IRS as written aren’t officially U.S. law; and even if they were, they don’t define liability and income such that any normal working American owes taxes; and anyway, if you just don’t file they might never catch you.

      (http://www.reason.com/...)

      •  I remember seeing one Irwin Schiff (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, dhonig, celticshel, debedb

        on tv many years ago touting his own version of this:

        http://www.paynoincometax.com/

        How'd it work out?  Glad you asked:

        WASHINGTON, D.C. - A federal jury in Las Vegas, Nevada convicted Irwin Schiff and two associates, Cynthia Neun and Lawrence Cohen, of aiding and assisting in the preparation of false income tax returns filed by other taxpayers in connection with a tax scam, and convicted Schiff and Neun of conspiring to defraud the United States, the Department of Justice and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced today. Schiff was convicted on all counts, including income tax evasion and of filing false income tax returns for the years 1997 through 2002, and Neun was convicted of willfully failing to file federal income tax returns, Social Security disability fraud, and theft of government property in connection with Neun’s improper receipt of Social Security disability benefits.

        http://www.usdoj.gov/...

      •  You're there mate. (0+ / 0-)

        Your W-2 can be in lieu of the 1040. That's law from IRS anyway.

        Did you know that when they audit you they can only look at the evidence once! They don't get to pick it up twice or come back and look at it again. They can copy it, that's all. If they don't the first time they pick it up then too bad.

        And you can remind them.

        In another context if officers come to your house with a warrant and you open the door that is considered an invitation to come in, and even if you have a chain on it. So you don't open the door. You tell them to put it down outside on the steps and you will look at it. You tell them to cross the street (off your property) and open the door and take a look at it. It must be within its expiration date. It must be signed by the judge. It is not a warrant to fish around as it must be detailed and specific as to what and where. The affadavit must be an oath upon pain and penalty of perjury. If it is not it is not a legal affadavit and thus the warrant is not correct and you tell them to go back and make it right before you will let them in. If they bust in you tell them that public officers are not allowed to act criminally so you will prosecute them as private citizens for acting criminally and you will be able to put liens on everything they own. Tell them calmly and logically as they walk all over your house and stuff. What you are doing is setting them up for the trial and any appeal.

        FUKUOKA: Part of my purpose is to create a society where no one has to do anything.PARACELSUS:So then, you wormy and lousy Sophist...

        by abbeysbooks on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:29:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  It is not about subverting it as it is already (0+ / 0-)

      subverted. It is about forcing the court to abide by the rules of the court.

      In administrative court the judge forced me into a trial when I didn't have counsel. I was warned he might do this but not that day so I wasn't prepared. You cannot sentence someone who has not pleaded guilty, not guilty or no contest and who doesn't have legal representation. The judge did it anyway.

      Our legal system is very powerful. All we need to do is to control the court (control the framing as Conceptual Guerilla always tells us) and force the court to go by the legal rules. That's all this is abo