Daily Kos

This won't be the popular view

Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:48:30 PM PDT

But I'm not going to let a criminal act scare me into surrendering my rights. Not for 9/11, not for V-Tech. I will not be led so easily by people that want me to be afraid so they can dictate the rules for me.

I'm surprised, because of my military experience, that the shooter killed as many people as he did, especially given that all he had was a 9mm and a .22. I'm surprised that he wasn't stopped earlier. I can be fairly certain how I'd react in that situation, but then, I've got the benefit of training and experience that your average college student won't have. When I go somewhere new, a small part of my mind considers what I would do if attacked there. I view it strategically. Most people do not do this.

The lesson from this is not that we need more gun control laws. If I wanted to kill a lot of people, I could do so very easily with items you can't possibly outlaw. Crazy people will always get body counts. That's always been true. The shooter broke the law before he ever fired a shot, carrying a firearm on a college campus is a felony. That's why, despite Virginia having very loose gun control laws, nobody else in the school was armed. That's another lesson, when law-abiding people are restricted, criminals will be able to harm them.

It's very easy in the wake of a tragedy to cry out for more laws and more controls. It was very easy after 9/11 to pass the Patriot Act. Isn't safety more important then liberty? Why are people so attached to their Constitutional rights? Well, because that's what makes us Americans.

I would consent to requiring people to get a license before purchasing a firearm, and having a safety course and safe gun handling course be a part of that licensing process, and I do think background checks are a good idea. If we have a test to drive a car, we should have one to own a firearm. If there was such a test, I'm sure I'd pass it. I've been taught firearm safety since I was ten or so, and throughout 7 years in the military, where I picked up expert marksman (neat little ribbon) for hitting 43 out of 50 with an M16.

That's why I've got 2 firearms right now, both in a gun case, both with trigger locks. One is a Remington 597 .22LR for plinking and target practice, and a genuine Russian Mosin-Nagant M92 battle rifle. I bought the M92 just recently, I've wanted to own one since I saw "Enemy at the Gates", and it is a genuine piece of military history. Was probably used at the Battle of Stalingrad, given when it was made and where it was made. I like both my guns, I'm responsible with them, I'm safe with them, and I would be very upset if I was told I couldn't have them anymore. Someday I plan to get a couple of handguns, a semi-automatic and a revolver. Probably get a simple 9mm for the semi-automatic, something the wife can use with little difficulty, and a Smith & Wesson .357/.38 for me. The .38 ammo is cheaper for target practice, the .357 more effective for home defense. Someday I will get a .223 AR-10 or AR-15, because their nearly identical similarity to the M-16 means I'll be accurate with them, and I'll know how to clean and maintain them, and they'll be a nostalgic reminder of my time in the military.

I have firearm safety drilled into me. I'm a responsible citizen with the right to own firearms, and I have responsibly kept and operated the ones I have. I will not let fear and cowardice prevent me from getting more. Same as I won't let fear and cowardice dictate my views on foreign policy and on illegal CIA prisons and on torture of people we "rendition".

I realize this won't make me very popular, but hopefully I've opened some eyes regardless. Gun "control" is one of very few issues where I'm not in lockstep with the Democrat zeitgeist, although you'll find more and more people like me in the party each day, as the Republicans drive more away like they drove me away in the past. Do us all a favor, and don't let fear give you a reason to alienate them.

Tags: gun control, libertarian democrats, NRA, second amendment (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 245 comments

    •  I hesitate to contradict one so heavily armed. (19+ / 0-)

      It appears he Virginia Tech shooter bought his guns legally.

      You know why he was able to do that?

      Because people like you are so determined to block any law that might

      prevent me from getting more

      -9.0, -8.3. History is more or less bunk.--Henry Ford
      Henry Ford is more or less bunk.--history

      by SensibleShoes on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:46:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nah... (17+ / 0-)

      ...lots of second ammendment supporters here...  or, used to be, at least.  Let's hope they stick around.

      I was once anti-gun, but Bush/Cheney changed that... I do think that reasonable limits make sense.  It is way too easy to get a firearm. It's harder to get a motorcycle than a gun.  That's nuts!

      But, I do believe in an armed citizenry as the best defense against tyranny.

      Godspeed!  Stick around, please...  We need to keep our membership as diverse as possible!

      Thanks,

      Mike

      The United States of America--the only country in the world where being educated and cultured actually *lowers* your social and political standing.

      by LordMike on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:47:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  another libertarian democrat here (14+ / 0-)

        Standing up for the 2nd Amendment as applied to individuals.  

        And I don't even own any.  (Maybe after we move to the country...)

        •  I never will... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          bleeding blue, neroden

          guns are nothing but trouble...  use them in the manner they were intended, and you pretty much go to jail or get sued.

          But I did reconsider briefly after 2004... when there was the threat of right-wingers literally hunting we democrats down for sport.  

          Thanks,

          Mike

          The United States of America--the only country in the world where being educated and cultured actually *lowers* your social and political standing.

          by LordMike on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:51:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  us democrats.. sorry... it's late! :-) (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            greenreflex

            The United States of America--the only country in the world where being educated and cultured actually *lowers* your social and political standing.

            by LordMike on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:53:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Um, care to clarify that comment just a little? (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            G2geek

            I've owned guns for 30 years, and best as I know I only used them as they were intended - hunting, target shooting, & for protection.

            I've never been sued or been to jail. I use them regularly (target practice mainly these days) for their "intended" purpose - shooting them, and haven't had any complaints, let alone lawsuits. I've got many friends that would say the same...What do you mean?

      •  LordMike, you nailed it (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Prognosticator

        "...lots of second ammendment supporters here...  or, used to be, at least.  Let's hope they stick around."

        I have been trying to explain to people on WAY too many diaries last night and tonight that all much more stringent (sp?) gun legislation will do is push people away from our Party. I'm a gun owner and had them since i was a kid; I use them to hunt, I use them for target practice, and I would use them for protection if the need arises. I also happen to be a lifelong Democrat, who regularly votes for Democrats, but guess what would cause this longtime Democrat to hold his nose and vote Republican?

        Why people do not understand this point you make baffles me.

    •  Theres actually a surprisingly large number (13+ / 0-)

      of us gun rights supporters here. Theres definitely a disproportionate amount compared to the Democratic Party at large.

      •  The difference is more likely rural vs city than (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sagesource, gzodik, Scientonymous

        Kossacks vs Democratic party. I grew up outer suburban with one foot in the rural areas and hunted for many years. I could shoot the nuts off a gnat at 100 yards with open sights. Having said that, I no longer hunt and in fact am very active in wildlife conservation. I think the gun problem comes down to states like Virginia where you can walk in and buy one like it was a snow shovel. There is no good reason not to have background checks and a short wait period before a purchase. Most of the handguns confiscated in New York City are from Virginia. That interstate trafficing needs to stop. None of the remedies require a gun ban, only reasonable assurances of responsible ownership.

        "I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self." --Aristotle

        by java4every1 on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:11:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  According to this ... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Gator Keyfitz

        ...Gallup Poll, 23% of Democrats (as of 2005) owned firearms, as compared with 41% of Republicans. I doubt that more than 10% of Kossacks own a gun.

        I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:29:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I Would Be Curious to Know, Though (0+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          sagesource

          I technically own a gun, but when I got kids it was locked in my father's gun safe in my parents' house, where it remains.

          And while I support the second amendment in the spirit that I believe the Founders intended it, I'm more than a little disturbed at the notion that what we need is MORE people walking the streets packing heat.


          You can have your "Under God" back when I get my "Liberty and Justice For All" back.

          by karateexplosions on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:32:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You'd have to poll it but (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          MadGeorgiaDem

          Still the question isn't gun ownership, its gun rights. I don't own gun, but I'm still a lot more suspicious of gun control than most in the party. You'd have to poll dkos with a series of questions asking about specific laws. I consistently get the impression that theres is much more opposition to gun control here than in most democratic circles.

          •  It's beacuse it is a loser issue (0+ / 0-)

            Liberals lost this battle in the 80's and 90's.  It loses elections.  I don't own a gun.  I like reasonable gun control.  But like we get here from gun owners on the DKos as well as on the right, gun control somehow means I want to take away all the guns. The victory for the NRA is we can't even have a debate anymore.

            I bet half the folks here against gun control don't own guns and simply don't want gun control as a featured issue.  It's a gift to Republicans.  That's how powerful the NRA is.

            I given up on this issue.  I want gun control.  I don't want guns on campus.  But I don't want to lose elections over it. Americans seem to be fine with living in a violent society.  Fine.  I'll just try to keep myself out of sketchy situations.

            •  Depends On Framing (0+ / 0-)

              I know a modest number of gun owners who are absolutist  as to their right to individually own guns, but most of them, like Jabba here, seem open to the notion that it is not an entirely unregulated right.

              The pairing of rights and responsibilities is a powerful combination, one to which many 'conservatives' seem to respond. The 'car ownership' argument seems to make sense to most of them, who don't take the Second Amendment to be one of the Ten Commandments.

              I think this is a place that is open to hammering out compromise.

              "You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -Abbie Hoffman

              by Uthaclena on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 10:06:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  you speak for me. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Proud SW FL Lib, mcshemp

      And it's sickening to see all these control-state advocates immediately jumping over a bunch of dead students to ride their current hobby-horse.

      It's the same crew who advocate banning smoking in your own home, and banning "bad" foods from restaurants, and banning "dangerous" vitamins.

      Bunch of closet neocons if you ask me.  

    •  I have mixed emotions.... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      cappy

      We are gun owners:  rifles, shotguns, and handguns for target practice, hunting, home defense, and just cause. So I am not anti-gun.  I also believe that guns don't kill people, people kill people.  This is why I don't support gun laws, but I do support laws regulating the people who get to own them and/or carry them.  There are way too many angry, drunken, drugged, mentally ill, immature, macho, and others who should not be allowed to touch, let alone own or carry, a gun, knife or other pointy objects. I also agree that there are the times that "if someone had had a gun" things would have been different.  But in the long run, I believe carrying will kill more people in total (road rage anyone?)than carrying would save.  In short, I trust guns.  It is people who are not to be trusted with guns. We need to do a much better job of controlling the people who buy and own them.

      ...once you're willing to say whatever it takes to win, you lose. ~~Dean

      by dkmich on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 02:25:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Duplicate (8+ / 0-)

    I think we've already had this diary about 15 times today.

  •  It may not be popular, but (14+ / 0-)

    Your perspective certainly needs to be expressed.  And I agree with you completely.

    "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

    by 0wn on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:46:29 PM PDT

  •  Keep rifles and shotguns (4+ / 0-)

    But the usual response to banning handguns for civilians is that they are needed for personal defense. Some sound really paranoid and that is not the kind of person I'd really want to have a carry permit.

    Personal Freedoms: Born 1215. Wounded 2001. Died 2006. Resurrected: 2009

    by OHdog on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:47:47 PM PDT

    •  Not really (5+ / 0-)

      A handgun is way more effective then a shotgun for self defense. Try to grab a shotgun barrel and point it away from you. Now try to do that with a handgun. There's a reason many people in the military both for the U.S. and around the world get issued sidearms. If somebody gets close enough to grab your rifle, you want a short-barrel handgun. Same is true with a shotgun. If you get surprised, you're not gonna be able to unlimber that shotgun fast enough for it to do you any good, unless you're riding shotgun on a stagecoach or something. However, you can pull a handgun from a concealed carry holster pretty quickly.

      If you don't think you'd ever have a need to have a handgun for personal defense, you must live in a very nice neighborhood. And only travel to very nice neighborhoods. The time you'll need it is the time you'll wish you had it.

      Like my dad taught me, better to have something and not need it, then need something and not have it. Applies to many things, but especially to firearms.

      OEF/OIF vet
      I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

      by jabbausaf on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:55:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  lol.... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Joe Bob

        If you don't think you'd ever have a need to have a handgun for personal defense, you must live in a very nice neighborhood. And only travel to very nice neighborhoods.

        In your enthusiasm, you've just managed to insult a huge swath of your countrymen.

        Neighbourhoods? There are whole COUNTRIES where you would never have a need for a handgun, no matter where you went.

        You're making Americans look like a pack of bloodthirsty lunatics with your fantasies. And all just so that you can keep on playing with your toys, which you've admitted you don't even have for self-defense at the present time.

        •  You may have hit the nail on the head here... (0+ / 0-)

          You're making Americans look like a pack of bloodthirsty lunatics with your fantasies. And all just so that you can keep on playing with your toys, which you've admitted you don't even have for self-defense at the present time.

          Political compass: -5.50 econ, -5.79 libertarian/authoritarian

          by billlaurelMD on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:22:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Lovely (0+ / 0-)

          Neighbourhoods? There are whole COUNTRIES where you would never have a need for a handgun, no matter where you went.

          Great. Having been to other countries, there were plenty of places in Japan and Korea where I didn't feel exactly safe, and plenty of places in Britain and Ireland that were the same.

          And none of that changes the fact that there's plenty of places in the country that I do live in where I wouldn't want to walk around at night, armed or unarmed. There's plenty of college campuses where people get mugged and kidnapped and raped and murdered. If that's insulting, too bad, it's the reality.

          You're making Americans look like a pack of bloodthirsty lunatics with your fantasies.

          If that's how you're determined to see it, there's not a whole lot I can do to change your mind.

          And all just so that you can keep on playing with your toys, which you've admitted you don't even have for self-defense at the present time.

          Nobody is even talking about banning the "toys" I have now. People keep holding up rifles and shotguns as the things that we can't make illegal- at least, not until we've made the handguns illegal.

          Like all laws designed to restrict freedom, have to take these things a step at a time.

          OEF/OIF vet
          I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

          by jabbausaf on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:53:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  A Man and His Guns (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        VetGrl, Stampy51, OHdog

        Sure, I understand self-defense, but I don't get the romance with guns that you write about.  I think it's an emblem of machismo, and our culture is terribly overdosed with men and their celebration of weaponry.

        •  They are all Rambo in their dreams. n/t (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          OHdog
        •  Lemme try to put it better (3+ / 0-)

          The M92 was the gun that the Soviets used to stop the advance of the Nazis into Russia. It's a symbol.  Hitler figured he could walk right into Russia after betraying Stalin, and Stalin said no, and the Russians said no. In the face of one defeat after another, the Russians made a stand at Stalingrad. They made the Nazis pay for every inch of land, they stalled the German advance there, and they used Hitler's own stubbornness (he could have gone around, you know) to defeat him. Millions of M92s and similar rifles were made (like the M44 and the M92-sniper), and millions of young Russian conscripts were armed only with them when they went to fight the invading Nazis. And somehow, against all reason and odds, the Russians prevailed and defended their homeland.

          It makes the M92 a piece of military history, and a symbol of standing up for your country and your home, and I appreciate it for that.

          It's also dirt cheap, only cost me 40 bucks. I had 60 in store credit at the military surplus store I bought it from, for selling them a lot of my old military gear. And it's a very simple but very well-functioning bolt-action rifle.

          It also reminds me of a Russian buddy of mine I had in tech school, somebody who had actually grown up in Stalingrad, and who I saw "Enemy at the Gates" with in the theater when it came out. I lost touch with him after tech school, but the rifle helps me remember him.

          In short, it has a great deal of personal meaning for me. Not a whole lot of that meaning is machismo, and it's really not a Rambo rifle.

          OEF/OIF vet
          I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

          by jabbausaf on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:48:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I've never owned a gun (0+ / 0-)

        I'm alive and doing pretty well at 58. I've survived my house being broken into, I've been mugged 3 times and I was attacked by a knife-wielding nut at work. (I worked in the tough neighborhoods of NYC.)The only time I held a gun was when I had to because ROTC training was obligatory at my college.

        I don't get the attraction at all. Gun owning just seems plain silly to me. I was actually laughing reading your diary with your ease at rattling off all those gun names.

        I just watched a little bit of Full Metal Jacket --saw it many times. Joker says to Cowboy. "I think Leonard needs a Section 8, he talks to his gun." I think a lot of people need section 8s, hence the dilemma.

        •  Well, but (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Kentucky Kid

          You're an urban person.  Don't judge people whose circumstances you don't understand.

          •  Good response but it will (0+ / 0-)

            fall on deaf ears. I've been a Dem all my life. I happen to live in the country and have been around and used guns since I was very young.

            Wanna know how to lose this reliable vote, as well as I'm sure many more like me? More gun control.

            Why not enforce the laws we have, regulate every person or company that sells guns, and require training & certification?

      •  I've hardly ever lived in a "nice" neighborhood (0+ / 0-)

        My father taught me to shoot when I was 5.  He also taught me that a shotgun is better for self-defense than a handgun.  Aim is much less of an issue, and the sound of that barrel being snapped to in the dark is an adequate deterrent in most cases.

    •  like a single mom who... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      worried dem, Kentucky Kid

      lives in a dangerous neighborhood, works the late shift, and has to walk two blocks from the bus stop to her apartment in the middle of the night?

      If I were her I'd be scared shitless too.  Scared that some creep would jump out of the bushes and rape me and probably give me HIV or some other deadly disease.  

      Or the guy who works at the all-night grocery store and has already been held up once and had to go home to change his pants and take a shower after it was over.

      Or the pizza deliverator who drives through streets littered with broken glass and gang graffiti.  

      Or the telephone company worker who has to go into those places to keep their phones working and wonders when s/he will walk into a meth lab or worse.

      Yeah they're all paranoid, crazy as bedbugs.  

      And what would you do?

      •  if you get held up at a grocery (0+ / 0-)

        just give them the fucking money for the sake of yourself and everyone around you

      •  Yes, in the end, that's the issue, I think (0+ / 0-)

        Being scared shitless. As a woman who has walked many blocks alone in the middle of the night, I made up my mind years ago that I didn't want to live my life scared shitless. So I haven't. I not only don't have any guns, I've never carried mace, pepper spray, or any other form of self-defense.  And I never will.

        •  an issue of choice (0+ / 0-)

          You have every right to your own choices in the matter.  

          So do those whose choice is a pistol in the purse.

          My choice is to avoid going into danger zones as far as possible.  I live in a place with an excellent police department and very rapid emergency response.  So my other choice is communications infrastructure at my house that will get help on the scene before a badguy even knows what's happening.  I don't own any firearms, but a few of my friends have the usual uncontroversial hunting rifles & shotguns.  When I move to the country I might buy a rifle and/or a shotgun too, or I might not, I don't know yet.

          What I'm standing up for is the right of each person to make that choice for themselves.  

  •  The ultimate tragedy of our times is that (39+ / 0-)

    there seem to be so many more people believing that the second amendment is absolute while the first amendment's protections are debatable.

  •  Hmmm..... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Joe Bob, Lying eyes, hopefulcanadian

    That's why I've got 2 firearms right now, both in a gun case, both with trigger locks.

    That thief you plan to defend yourself against.... do you think he's going to send you an engraved invitation and make an appointment?

    Or do you have some magic that makes you temporarily bulletproof while you get the gun out of the locked case, get the trigger lock off, get the ammunition out of its locked store, and load the gun?

    I hope you survive your obsessions, but I wouldn't lay any money on it.

    •  Actually (12+ / 0-)

      I never said I plan to use either of the guns I have now for home defense. In a home, even loaded and unlocked, they'd be more effective as clubs. My two rifles are for sport, target practice, and hunting. They wouldn't even be terribly effective in defending against a tyrannical government. The M92 was only effective against the Nazis because there were so many fricking Russians armed with them, and they knew the terrain better.

      Until I get handguns, I'm pretty vulnerable to home invasion. That's why I keep a maglite and a throwing knife handy.

      But good job trying to read things in that aren't there, and making up criticism to further your argument.

      OEF/OIF vet
      I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

      by jabbausaf on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:00:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And when you get handguns? n/t (0+ / 0-)

        •  Then I'll do what my dad did (4+ / 0-)

          His bedroom was on the second floor of the house. He had locks, alarms, and a dog downstairs that would let him know if somebody came in. He had a S&W revolver within arms reach, loaded, with a trigger lock in it, and the key was in the nightstand's drawer. In the event of an intruder, which thankfully never happened at our house when I was growing up, but did happen to other nearby houses, he would have been up and armed before they got up the stairs. The door to the master bedroom was on a landing with a wall instead of a guard-rail, opposite where the stairs went up, so he'd have an easy shot and some cover at anyone coming up the staircase, and the staircase was the only way upstairs.

          He also told all us kids what the plan was, and to stay in our rooms in that situation.

          We're not all Rambo gung ho loonies.

          OEF/OIF vet
          I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

          by jabbausaf on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:13:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ah, the good life (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            sagesource, Turkana

            He had locks, alarms, and a dog downstairs that would let him know if somebody came in. He had a S&W revolver within arms reach, loaded, with a trigger lock in it, and the key was in the nightstand's drawer.

            Now, that's what I call FREEDOM!

            Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

            by Joe Bob on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:35:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's what I call (3+ / 0-)

              Being a father with the protection of your family a high priority in your mind.

              Or is having a home alarm system (ADT anyone?) unusual? Is having a dog unusual? Locks on the doors?

              Only thing we're adding to the equation is something to do to protect your kids during the fifteen to twenty minutes you're waiting for the cops to show up, if you're lucky.

              OEF/OIF vet
              I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

              by jabbausaf on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 09:05:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's what I call (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Joe Bob

                ...living a life ruled by fear.

                •  Do you wear a seatbelt? (0+ / 0-)

                  Do you have smoke detectors?
                  Do you wear a condom or insist that your partner wears a condom?
                  Do you make sure your brakes work?
                  Do you wear a coat when its cold out?
                  Do you get flu shots or other inoculations?

                  Do you see what I'm getting at? Being prepared and ready is not living controlled by fear.

                  OEF/OIF vet
                  I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

                  by jabbausaf on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 03:17:27 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Mostly, no. (0+ / 0-)

                    I've never installed a smoke detector and have killed a number of those I've inherited by smashing them with a hammer when they went off without my house being on fire or started chirping in the middle of the night to let me know that their battery was getting low.

                    I don't insist that my partner wear a condom.

                    I don't make sure that my brakes work; I do take my car in for routine servicing and maintenance, but not with any particular focus on the brakes, and not because I'm afraid of injury, but because I want it to continue to take me where I want to go when I want to go there.

                    I wear a coat when its cold out, but that's to keep me comfortable, not safe.

                    I've never had a flu shot.

                    I have, however, been known to give a total stranger a lift when driving alone at night, and to climb in the car with a total stranger in order to get where I wanted to go when I wanted to get there.  Also to sleep sound as a baby when alone in a house with unlocked doors, and to roll over and go back to sleep after being woken by a crashing noise inside my pet-free house.

                    •  That's your choice then (0+ / 0-)

                      Although I doubt they are choices that many people would make.

                      If you had a kid, would you put them in a safety seat in the car, or just sit them on the floor?

                      OEF/OIF vet
                      I've been called a left-wing extremist because I absolutely oppose torture. I can live with that.

                      by jabbausaf on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 03:17:05 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Safety seat (0+ / 0-)

                        Seems worth the effort.  Motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death in children.  Homicide is low on the list, and most children who are murdered are killed by a parent or other family member, not in a home invasion.

                        I also believe in innoculations for children, because that pretty much covers all other leading causes of death, except for nonvehicular accidents.

                        I'm not opposed to take sensible precautions. But I let the data, rather than emotion, be my guide. When the effort invested in precaution far exceeds the documented risks, then people are running on pure fear.

                        I'm white. The people who are most dangerous to me are those behind the wheel of a car, then my family members, then my friends and acquaintenances. Especially the males. I have little to fear from total strangers or from other women, except when we are sharing the same road.

                        I think Forbidden Planet pretty much nails it when it comes to white males who own guns "to protect their families." I give such men wide berth.

                        I agree few other Americans would make the same choices I have. I think Americans are mostly dominated by fear. I see both the Patriot Act and the Iraq War as acts of cowardice, and I think that our elected representatives really do represent us.

              •  having an alarm system is one thing (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Joe Bob

                it's another to discuss with your kids the lines of fire from your bedroom door.

    •  Ahh. Ownership = obsession. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bawbie, Shadan7
  •  Why Do You Assume (14+ / 0-)

    everyone here will react in a negative manner to your position?

    the operative word here is responsible.

    looks to me you are a responsible, careful gun owner. in that case I don't care if you have 500 guns in your home.

    1.) don't let your kids play with them.
    2.) lock them up so sundry neighborhood thugs or nutcases who may know you have guns can't steal them.

    but you already know this.

    it's the dumbasses who don't practice responsible gun ownership that I'm worried about.

    "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

    by Superpole on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:51:44 PM PDT

    •  Well.. (0+ / 0-)

      By the same token, I am worried about the "ban all guns" advocates that are willing to throw me into the dung heap with the gun owners who want hollow-point bullets.

      There are plenty of questionable types on both sides of the debate.

      NARAL and HRC endorsed Lieberman. Therefore, I can no longer endorse them.

      by LeftofArizona on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 09:42:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK, Let's Look at the Middle (0+ / 0-)

        ground here.

        should parents who are dumb enough to leave loaded guns lying around the house for their kids to play with-- and who subsequently injure or kill another person-- should the gun-owning parents be punished?

        I think they should be-- and severely. but the NRA says "no", don't punish them.

        "Cigna cannot decide who is going to live and who is going to die." -- Nataline's mother

        by Superpole on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 10:25:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Strangely enough, I do agree with you (9+ / 0-)

    I'm no gun grabber. Then again, I also hate the NRA. But I have no problem whatever with responsible gun ownership.

    How can we cope with situations where a punk like this can get his hands on a Glock?

    Maybe there isn't one short of banning all guns. But that would not help. Hobart, Tasmania had a huge mass killing a few years back. There was one in Montreal. Another one in a schoolhouse in England. All palces where there is strict gun control.

    I don't have a solution. I really don't.

    On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

    by The Lighthouse Keeper on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 07:51:58 PM PDT

    •  Go look at the AVERAGE gun death rate... (5+ / 0-)

      ...for Australia, England, or Canada compared to the United States, and then think the matter over again. Exceptional cases prove little.

      Hell, the mayor of Nagasaki in Japan just got shot dead and the rate of firearms murders in Japan is only one per two million people. And there are dumbasses around who think that the mayor's assassination proves that Japan's gun control measures are ineffective.

      •  The gun-related murder rate in the UK ... (5+ / 0-)

        ...and Australia were very low (compared with the U.S.) BEFORE they enacted tough laws in the wake of mass killings. And it remains low AFTER. What then to make of the 31% plunge in murders and gun-murders in the United States between the peak in 1993 and 2005, a period when 23 states made it EASIER to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon, raising that total to 39 states?

        I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagl