"Blacking Out"

The American 21st century as an epic hangover. Either that or the beginning of a new Dark Age. Ah, the handy simplicity of the pop song lyric. Especially when there's no chorus and no hook. Again, if it's not cool, I'll delete forthwith. If it is cool, I'll leave it up for a day like the previous one.

Somehow we began the night invincible as ever
and always so impulsive or inspired
Somehow we're all ending up immobilized together
and always so oblivious and tired

Full lyric & mp3 below the fold...

Blacking Out

Somehow we began the night invincible as ever
and always so impulsive or inspired
Somehow we're all ending up immobilized together
and always so oblivious and tired

Suddenly it's all about denial on a bender
and everyone's so easily impressed
Suddenly it's all about the easiest surrender
and definitely blacking out the rest

Forgetting everything I know and then
dissolving into history again

The waves are rolling in again, allmighty and illegal
and I'm already in over my head
The volume is intensive and the impacts are for real
and no one is immune who isn't dead

Copyright 2004 Keir DuBois/Honey White.

Hope another cool-off thread (with a built-in one-day lifespan) is ok. Unlike yesterday's, though, this one isn't a demo- it's the full studio shebang. Thanks again for the indulgence.

Blacking Out by Honey White

•  guitar case

  I myself have not been hung over for many, many years.

  by keirdubois on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:03:20 PM PDT

  •  Hey, I clicked the link but Firefox spazzed out..

    :/

    by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:19:22 PM PDT

    •  works for me

      Right-click download, maybe?

      by keirdubois on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:27:34 PM PDT

      •  It's cool. Got it to work - new tab :) nice tune.

        by Clive all hat no horse Rodeo on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 10:07:20 AM PDT

•  I love your song! Love it. I hope it will be okay

  to play it for my class? I teach a contemporary lit course
  to seniors, and we have a deal where one student a day gets
  to come in and play a song and talk about it. I usually stay
  out of this and let them by the "players," but would so love
  to play your song to them as my choice. Is that okay?

  by begone on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:40:30 PM PDT

  •  Sure

    That's very generous of you. May I ask where you teach (if it's not ok then no worries)? Like I said, though- the thing is a ponderous piece of prog with few chord changes and no chorus, so don't say I didn't warn you if it bores them.

    On the other hand, if it doesn't, I can supply you (tastefully off-thread, of course) with the links at which you all may find more sugar-coated self-absorption.

    Thanks again begone.

    by keirdubois on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:51:39 PM PDT

    •  I teach in Hawaii. I love the song, love

      the instrumental parts, and the students' songs are often
      all chorus, so no chorus will be a welcome relief--not just
      for me, I think, but for them.

      Thank you.

      by begone on Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 11:55:05 PM PDT

      •  ah, the Ramones precept

        "Don't bore us, get to the chorus!"

        Re Hawaii: I have been to there twice- both times to Oahu (some of my wife's family are long-entrenched haoles in Kaneohe). The 2nd time was for our honeymoon last year & we stayed in Lanikai.  I enjoyed it there very much- and I'm also fascinated by Honolulu as a pan-Pacific city.

        by keirdubois on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 12:00:23 AM PDT

•  production comments...

  First, where are y'all located and when/where are you playing in the San Francisco Bay Area?   Depending on my schedule I might come...

  Second, production notes (speaking from experience on the other side of the glass), having listened a few times through plus numerous rewinds to various parts.  If this is useful, good, if it's not, sorry for wasting your time with it...

  The more I listen to this the more I get a sense of what you're doing with it; it reminds me of another band I knew years ago, hopefully the times are more receptive to this now than in those days.  Thoughtful and with subtle intensity rather than in-your-face.  

  Lead guitars could do for a bit more edge, more high-end presence throughout the entire piece.  You have a nice soulful tone there, at times haunting, at times meditative, it's basically OK but could do for a little more punch in places.  

  Also a bit more edge in the snare drum in the more sparse parts of the intro.  I would suggest setting up two drum mixes, one reserved for times when drum parts are highlighted.    

  Bass tone works fine as it stands.  I have a few ideas for production techniques that could work in places but not critical.  You've got a good tone there, with some edge but not overdone, and with nice depth.

  Your lead vocalist has a very nice tone, even harmonics (frequency distribution of the voice), no nasty odd harmonics, good enunciation, good control.  That's about a 1-in-100 voice there just based on the harmonics and intonation.  Second verse is a good example in particular.  

  Darn, I like what you're doing with the guitars there, it seems there could be a bit more of it, i.e. what I've been saying about edge and high end.  

  The lyric section, "forgetting everything..." works as a break part, in which case it might want a backing vocal off in the distance.  If I were doing it, I'd be looking for a male backing vocal in a lower pitch range than the lead, and a slightly different vocal melody for the backing track.   The small guitar part on the right track just could come up in volume just slightly, or again same comment about a bit more high end.  

  The last verse, "the waves are rolling in.." if I were producing it, I'd add two backing vocals in the distance: one the same as for the break (male, lower pitch range), the other a female vocalist in a higher range; these would be purely accent parts, fractional harmony on a few words here and there.  

  The transition between the last verse and the instrumental parts after that seemed a bit abrupt; if that's what you're going for, then changing the texture of the backing tracks might help accent it.  Or if you're going for more continuity than that, there's a space in the frequency spectrum just a bit lower than the vocal part that could be occupied with something as a brief transition to the instrumental part after the last verse.  There are some nice background subtleties in the instrumental parts as the song ends, hmm...

  Back to guitars again: it occurs to me that what I'm thinking of here re. presence & punch could be achieved with microphone selection.

  Don't worry about not using conventional song structure here, you can get away without it; catchy lines can help make a song contagious but also not essential.  You've got a very nice soulful and meditative thing going there; I don't know what the current audience demographics are but it stands on the artistic merits and people will find you.  

  --

  Checking out your website:  Yeah I definitely like what youse guys are doing there.  You've certainly got the creative chops together and intereting songs as far as I've heard, and your lead vocalist definitely has the 1-in-100 voice which is important.  And your live stuff hangs together really well too, including vocals; all of which is rare for bands that have a more complex sound in their studio productions.  

  OK, so when are you playing around Oakland or San Francisco?  And do you have a regular mailing list for upcoming shows?  (should I just write to the contact address and say "add to mailing list"?)  

  by G2geek on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 02:34:38 AM PDT

  •  Very grateful for your praise

    Again, many thanks for your wealth of in-depth comments, G2geek. I want to speak to all your points and tell you why it is what it is.

    From 2002-2004 Honey White was based in Santa Barbara (where we recorded our first demo), but when various reasons made it necessary for 3/4 of us to move away from SB, we considered ourselves "mobile" but still gathered in SB to rehearse for fun or before a gig. The city is a nice midpoint for 1 guy coming from SoCal and another coming from... San Francisco! Yes, that's right, for 3 years our main guitarist has lived in SF, and we were still unable to book a show there. Now he has been accepted as a PhD candidate on the east coast, for 5 years, so it appears that we may be seriously inactive on the gig front for the forseeable future.

    However, we did spend substantial amounts of time in SF during 2004 to record the album that this song is taken from. We were able to track it at this studio and had the essential assistance of a great engineer, a guy for whom we have tremendous professional respect. We were able to finish the album and release it, DIY-style, over the web via CD Baby and iTunes, and also pressed a short run of 500 CDs. So, I'm sorry that in a sense your tips for recording are great for future knowledge, but a bit late for this particular project! ;-)

    Anyway, I myself being a graphic designer have taken care of all the album covers, posters, web work, etc., but alas I am not a competent band manager. That's ok, though, cause we long ago accepted that we would not, and would not seek to be, "signed" in the conventional sense to any kind of label. That's been very liberating as far as being able to make the music we want to make, play the venues we want to play, and not feel forced to become jerky rock stars in order to get gigs or promote our work. None of us have the winner-take-all temperment for the music biz anyway. I'm very happy that I've been able to be creative in bands for over 10 years and not have to worry about living up to somebody else's expectations of "what it takes" or "how things are in this business".

    So yes, we're DIY, indie, however you want to describe it, but music for me is still a hobby- albeit a very expensive, very creatively rewarding hobby. If you want to know more or are looking for specific links just email me (check my Dkos profile) and I'll be happy to flood you with stuff. Thanks again.

    by keirdubois on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 02:39:07 PM PDT

•  hot damn! same song live.....

  OK, youse guys are definitely contagious.  

  I'm listening to the live version of Blacking Out at this point (an hour later and I should be doing worky-work at this moment, but...), and it hangs together as well as the studio version, sound textures included, and that's really rare.  Some of the transitions between parts that I thought could use a bit more of something in the studio version, you've got it down in the live version, those transitions work really well there.  

  Also by this point I've noticed a theme that runs through your lyrics, about a certain sort of personal struggle, and that's intriguing; obvious implication is that y'all are a clear-headed bunch, which is good, personally I've never had much of a taste for the doper/drinker scene.  

  The track "Unprofessional" is a good counterpoint to the more reflective tone of most of your songs, more straight-ahead and driving, makes a good contrast in both directions.  Ditto "You let me fall."  That combination of quiet/reflective songs and forceful/driving songs is nice, it works well.  

  Well I hope you get signed, though on the other hand, I'm a strong believer in open source music and putting a stop to the whole copyright lawsuit thing, so in another way I hope you can stay accessible online.  

  And of course keep posting stuff on Kos.  IMHO we need more of this.  Nothing wrong with bands doing a bit of self-promotion here; everything right with it, to keep the music accessible.

  ----

  Yo, anyone who hasn't clicked the link and checked out their website, do it.  Definitely worth your while.  And check 'em out live if they're in your area.  

  by G2geek on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 03:01:00 AM PDT

  •  i like the guitars..

    some tasty, delicate playing.

    vocal's too nasal for my taste, can't hear the words clearly either.

    nice dreamy production, progression's a bit doomy.

    quite professional.

    your comments rock here at dkos, thanks for sharing your toons as well.

    by melo on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 05:17:21 AM PDT

    •  they're not my toons....

      I'm not in the band, and I had no part in producing their songs.  I used to do production years ago, as in 2" 24-track Studer open-reel decks and analog effects and real microphones.  I got out as it was going all digital.  

      Yes, the guitar playing is tasty, they're talented as all hell, I would just tweak the production values a little here and there.  

      Unclear vocals are OK, not to forget Michael Stipe's early stuff, mumble mumble...:-)

      Nasal... well a little in places, but that's easily solved.  I've never had to deal with a vocalist who was too nasal (lucky me, have mostly had incredibly good vocalists to work with) so I'd have to think a bit about how these guys could train themselves to fix that if it was really an issue.  Though on their live stuff there is a midrange resonance that appears to be in the vocalist's diaphram rather than in the sound production; but that could be smoothed out with parametric EQ if needed, so it's no big deal and it's not on most of their songs.  

      Dreamy and doomy are good words, yeah you're on target there.  These guys are good at playing with contrasting moods.  I picked it up as reflective and thoughtful, didn't catch the doomy thing but I can hear it in my mind's ear now that you mention it (I ended up listening to the studio song a bunch of times and the live stuff two or three times before writing all that above).  

      These guys certainly have the talent to go places if they choose.  I hope they'll also stick with grassroots distro at some level though.  

      by G2geek on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 05:46:43 AM PDT

      •  thatnks so much

        ...for all your in-depth comments. I'm at work now so I can't answer everything in detail, but I'll be happy to get to all your questions & points. Thanks!

        by keirdubois on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 08:53:51 AM PDT

  •  Live is where we live

    Thanks again for all your praise!

    The great challenge of some of these songs, laden as they are with lots of overdubs, is trying to tackle them live. Blacking Out in particular was tough cause we essentially built it up in the studio from nothing- or rather from a formless jam- so it got a chance to evolve more as we played out and sort of solidify itself arrangement- and performance-wise. Honey White's greatest strength is our ability to gel quickly in a live situation- indeed, many of our shows have been done only on a few hours' rehearsal (sometimes weeks before!) and we've pulled them off well.

    I myself captured all the live recordings on my old Roland VS-890 digital 8-track. It's nice and portable with plenty of space- I once got a whole 2 hour show, fully-separated into 6 tracks, and the thing still had tons of space. The live stuff really isn't recorded super-professionally, then, so we felt ok about spreading it all over the web, with the help of archive.org's Open Source Audio (yes, open source is awesome), for free. You can peruse it all here.

    Lyrics: My brother (the frontman guitaris/vocalist) and I handle the lion's share of lyrics. We're much more mopey on record than in real life- I think the best way to purge these things from your psyche is to shoe-horn them into 3 verses and a chorus (more about that here)- but we like wordplay and language (I was an English major) enough to play with it in nice tight little rhymes. We may indeed sound like a drug band but we don't like to have that stuff get in the way of a good show or professional recording. We always save the minor indulgences we do take part in for after the gig and outside the studio.

    by keirdubois on Fri Apr 20, 2007 at 02:42:40 PM PDT