Daily Kos

Obama is a Reagan Democrat

Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:24:04 AM PDT

No, no, it's not what you think! I'm not accusing Obama of being a Liebercrat or a DLCer or a triangulator or a... surrenderer. In fact, I happen to be an Obama supporter. No, I'm accusing Obama of being a Great Communicator.

I know, I know, it's been said before. He's articulate... he's eloquent... he can give a good speech. That's not what I mean though. If you follow me below the fold, I'll explain to you why Obama might be just as good for the progressive movement as Reagan was for the conservative jihad movement.

I consider myself to be a rational, sensible person. So as an Obama supporter, when this anti-Obama fever swept over DailyKos, I was just a little confused. At first it seemed appropriate. Certainly Obama is not everyone's cup of tea and I know a lot of progressives dislike his occasional tendency to break the framing rules. No problem there. Then of course there's John Edwards who is AMAZING. Certainly a lot of people will be feeling him and that's cool too.

But the fever grew hotter and hotter, to a point where I started to avoid this place. I was uncomfortable. I felt that I had made a huge mistake. Had I been tricked by Obama's charm? Had I not learned anything in my time here, strolling through reality? What did these fervent Edwards supporters know that I did not? Am I shallow by continuing to stick by Obama despite the unrelenting criticism coming his way -- that he has no meat, he's an empty suit -- there's "no there, there?" That he appeases the right-wing, he's a surrender monkey, he undermines our party, he has no substance, no experience and is not a committed progressive.

No. I am not shallow, nor am I stupid. And I still support Obama.

I couldn't stay away from DKos, it's a little like crack. I came back and supported my fellow Obama fans with as much mo-jo as I could muster while I soaked up the knowledge provided by my fellow Kossacks. Then came the Kos hit job...

My confusion and frustration grew to... hmmm... anger might be strong, but something like anger. So much so that I wrote thisdiary a couple days ago. Note the difference in tone between that diary and this one. I've done a lot of thinking since then and I also happened to stumble across this post from a couple days ago by Glenn Greenwald. It really opened my eyes:

but at least thus far, Barack Obama is the only candidate even thinking and talking about the deeper and more fundamental diseases plaguing how our political system works. Whatever criticisms of his candidacy thus far are valid, a "lack of substance" isn't one of them, and that's true even if he hasn't yet developed the details or even broad contours of his health care plan.

I encourage you to read the entire article, it's quite brilliant and speaks to some of the larger criticisms of Obama. It immediately reminded me of something I wrote in my profile on my.barack page. When asked why I supported Barack Obama I replied:

I support Barack Obama because he is fully committed to changing the tone in Washington D.C. This is the most important thing the President can do in the next term.

And I stand by that because it finally occurred to me that we are being presented with a rare opportunity. Perhaps the best thing for the progressive movement is not to offer up our "purist" candidate for the oval office, but instead a strong progressive with BROAD APPEAL. Someone who might not always say what we want him to, but will most of the time do what we want him to, while convincing some skeptics and new voters that the Democratic Party has their best interest in mind, without compromising our progressive values. Someone who can finish the job we started in 2006 of bringing those low-info voters and independents back into the fold of reality. If that's a lack of substance, then FUCK substance. Is it triangulation? Well, not anymore than being a Libertarian Democrat... ahem...

As an Obama supporter I could tout his progressive voting record, his many attempts at meaty legislation, his accomplishments in civil rights and community service. I could point out that there isn't a great deal of difference between Edwards and Obama other than their rhetoric. I could remind everyone that despite good intentions, Edwards, Clinton, Dodd and Biden all voted to authorize the quagmire we currently find ourselves in.

And I guess I just did. But NONE OF IT MATTERS. If that's the kind of stuff we're going to focus on, then we're wasting our time because all of the Democratic nominees are stellar and ANY of them could end up being the nominee. (Just to clarify, I'm really not talking about Gravel or Kucinich, but feel free to praise them up in the comments if you're a supporter).

What does matter is Obama is our Great Communicator -- the Democratic answer to Ronald Reagan. I'll wait a minute as you clear the vomit from your throat and comprehend how valuable this is. ;-)

Maybe Clinton and Edwards and Biden and all the rest do have some good plans. That's great and I'm genuinely pleased about that. But those plans will be irrelevant if we don't "change the way we do politics" as Obama so often suggests.

Think about it this way. In order to reverse the damage inflicted upon our nation by the Bush administration, the Democratic party will have to control the House, the Senate AND the White House. And even then, it will be like pulling nails, trying to pass legislation with the OBSTRUCTIONIST republicans gnawing at our ankles, accusing us of being traitors. And it's all disgusting! We shouldn't have to have one-party rule to fix our country, anyway, but we do. We should be able to get things done even with Republicans in control of one or more branches (or houses). That won't happen until we change our politics, which won't happen until we put Republicans and their media allies in their place, which won't happen until independents and new voters are firmly in our camp, which won't happen until we convince them that we're better, which won't happen until they trust their President, which happens to be a Democrat (and in my opinion, happens to be Obama). And none of it requires any caving or triangulation. Sure President Obama will try his best (wink, wink) to work with Republicans, because they were voted into office by their constituents and deserve to be at least heard. And non-blogger, low-info Democrats WANT that.

In short, I think Obama will change the way the American people look at the Democratic Party AND their government. I'm not convinced Clinton or Edwards or the rest could do the same... That's not to say Obama is perfect and will never make mistakes. But last I checked, he was still human.

PS. Let's give Obama some time to come up with policy specifics. Unlike some, he's never run for President before...

Poll

Who do you want to win the R nom?

12%18 votes
13%20 votes
17%26 votes
5%8 votes
12%19 votes
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3%5 votes
22%34 votes
9%14 votes

| 150 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: 2008 Elections, president, primaries, Democrats, Barack Obama, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich, Bill Richardson, Ronald Reagan (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 86 comments

  •  And let's face it... (19+ / 0-)

    The Democrats are kicking ass right now! Let's turn our hostility back toward the Repub nominees so we can get our troops home, safe and sound, ASAP.

    At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

    by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:21:07 AM PDT

    •  Couldn't have said it any better--- (4+ / 0-)

      myself----exactly how I feel about Obama.  As an Illinoisan, I have followed him from the beginning----have read everything that has been published about him, have seen him speak in person a couple of times and feel I know who he is----as a person and a politician.  I know he didn't go to the senate all wide-eyed, but he was very disheartened about the reality of the ways of washington and is determined to seek change.  When others write that he is just a charismatic speaker with no substance, I know how wrong they are.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  His foresight and common sense and decisions to do the "right thing" on all sorts of issues, the most critical being the Iraq War, is impressive.  Great intellect, progressive ideals and a rare ability to connect deeply with the public makes him an ideal candidate for our side.  

  •  You wanted to list Cheney, but refrained. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    theran, Potus2020
  •  what i think but you say it better (5+ / 0-)

    one of the best diary's Ive ever read on this site. I think F Thompson is going to be the GOP nominee, he's a llikeable guy with none of the obvious drawbacks of the other big 3 GOP nominees, he'll get money much like Obama, very quickly. To beat him we'd better not nominate Hillary or the likeability gap will be way way too much to overcome, Obama/Thompson will come down to issues becuase the American people will personally like both candidates, and Obama will win.

    After Obama's eighth straight victory, Penn told reporters: "Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification or a sign of who can win the general election.

    by nevadadem on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:24:36 AM PDT

  •  Comment Of The Day! (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jj32, Fury, Geekesque, Potus2020

    I couldn't stay away from DKos, it's a little like crack.

  •  Good pep talk. (7+ / 0-)

    I routinely describe myself to friends as leaning 50-25-25 Obama-Edwards-Richardson, and have expected Obama to clinch it when he starts talking policy in Q2 (Q1 this year was for fund- and enthusiasm-raising, you Edwards partisans).  But honestly, I was starting to get a little worn down by it all, and the nagging "when's he going to come through" questions lingering more and more in my mind.  But damn it, he'll come through when he's President.  OK, I'm back on board, in my own fashion.  Call me... 70-30 Obama-Edwards (sorry, Bill, you aren't happening).  Hoorah.

    Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

    by Pegasus on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:28:35 AM PDT

  •  Reagan Was a Great Mouthpiece Not a Communicator (11+ / 0-)

    Obama writes his own material because he thinks his own thoughts.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:29:26 AM PDT

    •  Hey (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      modemocrat, jj32, Fury, dotster

      I'm not gonna argue with a criticism against Reagan. You're probably absolutely right.

      However, I think Obama could have the same effect on our party, our movement and our country.

      At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

      by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:39:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't underestimate Reagan (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jj32, Potus2020

      At the end, as his disease took him over, there is no doubt that others were putting words in his mouth. But, he was a political animal for a very long time before that. He defined policy and played a big part of what has become modern conservative thought.

      I hated his politics and all that he stood for, but you have to give the devil his due. He was a master at the theater of politics and an idealog with a fixed agenda.

      Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

      by high uintas on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:45:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You've captured my take on why (15+ / 0-)

    he's disliked by so many around here.  I said it a few months ago:

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Obama's style is the exact opposite preferred

    by people here.

    He favors a softer, more conciliatory way of spreading progressive values.  His approach is to sell 100% progressive values in a way that emphasizes agreement and consensus.

    Most folks here self-included, prefer confrontation.  

    by Geekesque on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 11:21:46 PM PDT

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:31:41 AM PDT

    •  I Didn't Like Him Because He Scolded Democrats (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      red moon dog

      in public, including our leadership. This has nothing to do with being soft or conciliatory. He criticized the "culture of corruption" theme which turned out to be a) understated not overstated and b) voters' #1 motivation as revealed by exit polls a few months later.

      Now I'm much impressed with his more recent demonstrations of sparring ability, so that reassures me that he's not our usual roll-over candidate.

      Bipartisanship and outreach are fine--and this may be the first good moment for it now that people finally recognize the results of Republican policy. But we can't be scolding our own party in the face of the kind of threat Republicans pose.

      I'm still waiting for more evidence that he understands that threat before I fully sign on.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:35:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can you give a link (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Potus2020

        to his comments?

      •  I'll sign on if he's the first to declare (0+ / 0-)

        opposition to the CBC/FOX debate. That's all I need for him to gain my support.

      •  "Quoted as" vs "characterized as" (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Potus2020

        I know the media has characterized him as scolding other Democrats.  I have yet to see a quote of his that can be accurately described that way.

        "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

        by Geekesque on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:48:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        modemocrat, Geekesque, Potus2020, dotster

        But we can't be scolding our own party in the face of the kind of threat Republicans pose.

        That's a peculiar sentiment around here.

        We, the progressive base, scold Democrats all the time when we don't approve of them.  I understand that a Senator's comments carry more political weight than ours, but to me, Obama scolding Democrats is just a sign of him becoming the spiritual leader of the party.

        Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

        by Pegasus on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:50:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Bipartisanship is fine if it means getting (6+ / 0-)

        Republicans to work with us to enact legislation that the American people want (i.e. Universal Health Care).

        Obama made it clear that that's what he believes bipartisanship is in his webcast from Iowa on March 31st.

        He said something like

        "People don't realize that we need 60 votes to get through the Senate. So we need to elect more Democrats, ... or Republicans who will work with us to get these things done. I'm fine with bipartisanship."

        •  Yup... (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          modemocrat, Geekesque, Potus2020, inertiac

          the problem with the use of the term "bipartisanship" around here is that people confuse it with Joe Lieberman's version.  It doesn't have to be that way...

          "President Obama will be the most liberal President of our lifetime."

          by rashomon on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:57:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That tells us nothing... (0+ / 0-)

          "People don't realize that we need 60 votes to get through the Senate. So we need to elect more Democrats, ... or Republicans who will work with us to get these things done. I'm fine with bipartisanship."

          I don't need Obama to inform me of the fact that having more Democrats would make it easier to pass legislation.

          When will he say something beyond the obvious?  When will he tell us how he will get things done?  When he offers substance, that will tell me who and what he really stands for, and that he has looked beyond the need to get 60 votes in the Senate.  Duh!

          •  read his policy (0+ / 0-)

            speeches on his website if you want details.

            with the exception of health care, he has been every bit as detailed in his plans in his policy speeches as edwards, clinton or anyone else.

            "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens, can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead

            by dpg220 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:22:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is inaccurate... (0+ / 0-)

              and he is far from being detailed.

              I have read his speeches.  Don't assume, please.

              Obama has not addressed poverty in any detailed way, energy in any detailed way, or health care.

              I did not create the argument that, as of now, he is style over substance.

    •  Yeah, I'm not so sure (5+ / 0-)

      the most important thing is changing the tone in DC.

      What I'm looking for is a harsh, partisan approach, and the determination not only to never bring a knife to a gunfight, but the vow to always bring a surface-to-air missile.

      So Obama's not really my candidate. That said, I'll enthusiastically support him if he wins. And I very much hope that his supporters are correct, that with Obama the first step is transcending the current and crappy state of politics, and only then do we engage in a new kind of partisanship.

      Sounds lovely to me. Like rainbows.

      •  I have a feeling... (7+ / 0-)

        we're going to have to be the bigger party as far as engaging in a new kind of partisanship.

        I also have a feeling that we might control the house, senate and white house, so compromise will not be capitulation as it might be now...

        At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

        by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:45:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, that's the argument (6+ / 0-)

          for Obama, and in truth I think there's some merit there. It kinda leaves vindictive bastards like me out in the cold, but if anyone can lead the Democratic party to such a crushing victory and realignment, it's Obama. (And I say that as someone who's not currently a supporter!)

          I hope you're right. And certainly, the one thing about Obama that I find most attractive at the moment is his supporters.

          •  I'm a vindictive bastard too... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Geekesque

            I love to tear Republicans apart too, but it'd be nice if could get things done at the same time... :-)

            And also, at some point, we'll have to work with them no matter what, because absolute power corrupts absolutely...

            At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

            by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:03:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I actually think that tearing the (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              rick, Potus2020, FOS

              Republican Party apart is the most important thing we can do. Destroying their brand. Imprisoning their criminals. Highlighting their criminal negligence. Putting a stake through the hearts of their zombie lies and shambling undead operatives.

              There's nothing  I'd reather get done than that. Not only for the sake of my bloodthirsty heart, either; for the sake of the country. Republicans undermine the country, destroy the economy, loot and lie and piss on the Constitution, then Democrats spend years fixing things ... and then the very same Republicans do the same shit again!

              •  Man I want to make this post a (0+ / 0-)

                sticky.  Rings true as a bell.

              •  You're right... (0+ / 0-)

                But tearing them apart isn't the end-all, be-all. We sort need to play good cop/bad cop.

                I think we should let the Democratic Majority in Congress tear the Republicans to shreds and expose them for the criminals they are while our President stays above the fray.

                At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

                by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:35:48 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I agree but you catch more Bush votes with honey (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Potus2020

                than with the vinegar.

                We need to peel off votes from people who voted for Bush in 2004 and 2000 and some people who previously identified with the Republican party. That's the only way to get a solid majority. And while it's important to identify the failings of Republican leadership, we can't do so in a way that makes Bush voters receptive to voting Democrat this time feel attacked like they were part of the problem in voting Republican in the past (even if most people on DKos think they were).

                Now Obama is a fighter and he will fight for progressive values. But I think he offers a tone and a message of drastic change and hope that could bring over a lot of independents and weak Republicans who haven't voted Democratic for president in a while. An Obama (or Edwards for that matter) candidacy also strengthens the Democratic brand with something new rather than setting the party back by letting the Clinton brand stand in for the Democratic brand with her dynastic candidacy.

            •  the problem is... the GOP understands (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              rick, Alexander G Rubio

              and lives by Bush's mantra---
              "don't negotiate against yourself"-- and I'm afraid  the Hamilton Project Democrats (and from the eviddence, that includes Obama) do not.

              You can be conciliatory and bipartisan AFTER you win, but if you go in willing to demanding half a loaf, you'll be lucky if you get a quarter loaf. If you go in demanding a loaf, a case of wine and set of steak knives, well you just might get the loaf.

              I'll give you an example, in Clinton's first term, they knew that a single payer health care system was the best option.  After all, Medicare is a single payer system. Its been working great and has been very popular among the elderly since the 1960's.  But the Clinton's were scared of insurance company opposition, so their first offer was a complicated system that kept insurance companies in the mix.  Guess what? the insurance companies and the GOP still fought and killed it.

              If their opening offer had been Medicare for All, maybe it would shake out the best deal Congress would accept would be a private insurance based system similiar to their actual proposal.  But they negotiated against themselves and got nothing.  

              Edwards understand this, Hillary does not and until Obama starts offering specifics, the jury's still out on him.

          •  Hopefully I'm right in interpreting (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            kiwing, Geekesque, Potus2020, dotster

            your desire to see a partisan firebrand in the WH as support for Edwards.  And I think you're exactly right about the key difference between the two: in very general terms, Edwards is the old-fashioned Democratic crusader (and I love him for it) and Obama's the hope for a supermajority and realignment.  Obama's a lot higher risk/reward, that's for sure.

            Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

            by Pegasus on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:04:21 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, since he told FOX to take a walk, (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Pegasus

              I've supported Edwards. (Though--and I know I'm alone on this--I'd be supporting Kerry if he were in this thing. I always suspected he was a guy who'd twist the knife a few times, if necessary.)

              Part of me wonders how Obama would be doing if, all along, he'd adopted every one of Edward's positions, and made all his statements, etc. Would he have lost any support? Gained any?

          •  Sure and, (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Potus2020

            Remember, Congress can remain vindictive (or, at least, confrontational) in their oversight role, no matter who is in the White House.

  •  I'm becoming more impressed by Obama (14+ / 0-)

    as a candidate. My chosen guy is Edwards, but I can't help but be impressed with Obama's ability to reach out and energize supporters.

    You can't underestimate the "it" factor in politics, and he absolutly has it. When it gets down to the general election the independants and undecideds can be swayed by a charismatic candidate. One thing you can't deny is that he is very charismatic.

    Edwards Democrat voting for Obama would like to remind you, "Concentration Moon, over the camp in the valley" Frank Zappa knew.

    by high uintas on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:32:53 AM PDT

  •  interesting point... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    high uintas, Geekesque, Potus2020

    while there is obviously a lot of Obama love, there is also quite a bit of opposition. I suspect that although we're not in as bad a way as the Republicans, there's still a certain amount of "these candidates aren't quite right" "if only we had Gore" "if only we had Clark" etc. Also, I think Obama suffers from expectations that are too high, and that any "failure" on his part becomes magnified. (No, he's not really the Messiah)

    I heard recently (bloggingheads, I think?) of the phenomenon of the Dems usually running some candidate (Bradley, Tsongas, Dean, perhaps Hart?) who appealed to the "egghead" branch of the party, but not much else. There was speculation over whether Obama would be that candidate this cycle. There's a certain danger of that, to be sure, but I think Obama, more so than those others, has a better chance of becoming a "mainstream" candidate. Whether he can close the deal, fundraising or not, still remains to be seen, though.

    Unlike in the stock market, past performance can be said to mean something here, and I do see enough in Obama's past performance to think he'd be a perfectly fine president. As far as getting elected, though, he still has to make that "breakthrough" that put him ahead of everyone. It hasn't come yet.

    Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

    by JMS on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:34:45 AM PDT

    •  The Breakthrough... (4+ / 0-)

      has to be timed right.  I respect the Obama campaign's insistence in being very deliberate in the rollout of policy.  Does no good to breakout in April.  Remember Dean in the fall of 2003?

      Edwards is being smart about getting out on policy because it's a great niche for him.   It worked...he's top tier to stay.

      Obama also did the greatest favor Edwards could have asked...he killed the inevitability meme.  It's a 3 way race now...

      "President Obama will be the most liberal President of our lifetime."

      by rashomon on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:43:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Totally agree... (0+ / 0-)

        but the details that come from Obama will be what gives us insight as to his true priorities and for whom he really stands.

        The longer he waits, the more it raises the question, at least for me, about if he is a leader or a facilitator of what others have brought forth.

        •  Just be patient (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          FOS, dotster

          The long wait might be tough for you, but if he puts those plans out NOW, they will fall on deaf ears. No one's really paying attention except for us.

          And considering all the new voters that Obama is apparently bringing on to the scene, we wouldn't want to overwhelm them with policy proposals that would confuse and bore them.

          We've still got a while...

          At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

          by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:39:02 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's what I suspect, too. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Potus2020

            I figure all the candidates will be doing something similar.  They'll introduce economic policy as we enter into the holiday shopping season.  They'll talk about health care and other family related issues coming up to Thanksgiving.   Foreign policy near Memorial Day.  Labor issues and similar near Labor Day.

            Sure it's crass, but it also makes sense.  The worst time to be talking about these issues is when no one wants to hear them.  The best time is when as many people as possible would want to hear them.  So we'll just have to wait.

    •  Tsongas didn't (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      dotster

      draw crowds like the one Obama had in Austin.  'Nuff said.

      Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

      by Pegasus on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:52:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well no, not 'nuff said (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Pegasus

        Obama may outrank Tsongas, but I seem to remember (and took comfort from) all the Dean supporters announcing record crowds for him too. It IS way too early to think that things can't change, but the point is just that they haven't changed yet.

        Barack Obama will only become president if enough people pay attention, so pay attention, dammit!

        by JMS on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:48:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Not being a fan of Reagan (5+ / 0-)

    Linking Obama and Reagan seems like a slap at Obama, even though your intent seemed to suggest that Obama has the broad appeal and inviting communication style of Reagan.  Obama has much more substance than Reagan and promotes empathy and compassion where Reagan focused on greed.

    Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by DWG on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:41:01 AM PDT

  •  Good luck to you (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    high uintas, Potus2020

    and your candidate.

  •  The Reagan analogy is a good one... (12+ / 0-)

    because it talks to the issue that we've not had a good salesman of Progressive Policy.  Some folks seem to think that just because we're right, we'll win if we are loud enough.  The art of persuasion is lost...

    "President Obama will be the most liberal President of our lifetime."

    by rashomon on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:45:38 AM PDT

    •  Mm-hmm (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Potus2020

      "We'll win if we should loud enough" is certainly a misguided idea -- shouting matches degrade the idea of liberal, deliberative politics.  And it begs the question, to me, of what we mean by "loud" in the political arena.  Plastering the media with talking points and endlessly struggling to control the frames should not be our game.  And if it is,  I want out of politics.

      Their number is negligible and they are stupid. -- Eisenhower

      by Pegasus on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:58:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  No... (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    LordMike, Potus2020, FOS, dotster

    "I couldn't stay away from DKos, it's a little like crack."

    Wrong...it's a LOT like crack.  Mrs. Rashomon has been mentioning to me that perhaps I need to lay off the sauce for a while...

    "President Obama will be the most liberal President of our lifetime."

    by rashomon on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:48:11 AM PDT

  •  Colin Powell isn't on your list... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    modemocrat, Potus2020

    Not that I'm surprised.  I wouldn't vote for him.  He lost my trust in his UN presentation on Iraq.  But I could deal with him as president and that's how I know which Republican candidate I would prefer to see.  All of those on the list give me the heebie-jeebies.  Except for maybe Guiliani but I've heard too many things about the tactics used on the homeless in New York to feel comfortable with him.

    On your general theme, good job.  You are right, it will take years to recover any trust in Washington.  I would only posit the thought that a revolution is just what we need.  A Democratic Revolution like the one of 1800.  It destroyed the Federalists and led to about 60 years of Democratic domination of politics.  It led to the Louisiana Purchase and many good things in our politics.  It also led to the Indian Removal policy of Jackson and the stupid-ass Democrats who led us into the Civil War (let us be warned!).  

    But the removal and elimination of the Federalists got rid of the elitist, even royalist, aspirations of them and gave us 200 years of democratic republicanism.  We need that again.

  •  You totally forgot (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Potus2020

    Duncan, "Defense contractor ass tastes like pumpkin pie." Hunter! The man with by far the strongest conservative credentials. The man who loves fences, hunting preserves for wheelchair bound veterans, defense contractors, mocking Gitmo detainees, and fucking up the environment. He's pure Republican, right down to his hate-filled bones.

    Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.

    by Hannibal on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 10:54:45 AM PDT

  •  No One Will Read It (5+ / 0-)

    But Obama will sweep to victory.  Because once people listen to him, they are sold.

    I am from Illinois.  And everywhere I went in the past year, everyone, including some Bush Republicans were pleading. Damn, I hope Obama runs.  We need him.

    But the Edwards people are brainwashed by God knows what.

    Even dopes like Sirota, Edwards is the people candidate, blah, blah, blah. Edwards is for whatever he thinks will get him elected.

    War, no war, war, no war.  What day is it, what is my opinion this week.

    Obama had tons more of donors giving to his campaign then Edwards, still Sirota says Edwards is the people candidate.

    There is no reasoning with idiocy like that.

    •  Your words speak for themselves... (0+ / 0-)

      But Obama will sweep to victory.  Because once people listen to him, they are sold.

      You make him sound like an insurance salesman, but even they have some details to offer.

      Not a word is included about the issues themselves.

      Sorry, I can listen all day, but I don't choose any candidate for any office based on how he/she speaks.

      Talk about being brainwashed!

      •  I'm not...I'm worried that he wants to have (0+ / 0-)

        things both ways...to appeal to Dems and Repubs.

        My values are left.   The right has had it their way far too long.   It will take many years of being left to even get close to the middle.

        If Obama starts in the middle, my progressive values will be compromized and never won back.

        I feel nervous about an Obama Pres. nom.  
        Now...VP I could get behind.

        The Dream Ticket can win the General Election

        by Pink Lady on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:11:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You need to differentiate (0+ / 0-)

          between his record and his rhetoric.

          At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

          by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:35:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The 2008 Dem nominee has to appeal to Bush voters (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          BobzCat, Potus2020

          It's the truth. I know we don't like it, we've been in the wilderness 8 years and we want the red meat now, but whoever gets the nomination after the primaries will have to convince people who voted for Bush in 2000 and/or 2004 to vote for him/her in 2008 to get safely to 270 electoral votes.

          That doesn't mean by any stretch the nominee needs to pander to Republicans or adopt Bush-like policies. It just means they need to present themselves as inclusive enough of the Bush voters who are independents or disenchanted Republicans who are predisposed to pull the lever for a Democrat this go-round.

          If Obama, an anti-war candidate, appeals to Dems and Repubs (which he seems to) that's a good thing. Hillary, Edwards or whoever will have to do the same thing eventually if they are the nominee.

    •  It is becoming obvious to me (0+ / 0-)

      that Edwards will do anything to get money to get ahead.

      Edwards' Fundraising Team Hit Up Cancer Well-Wishers

      •  I don't know... (0+ / 0-)

        the NY POST??? I'm going to take everything concerning Edwards and cancer with a grain of salt...

        Let's keep in mind that this illness is a huge burden on them and I'm sure they'd give up running in a minute if it meant a clean bill of health for Elizabeth...

        At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

        by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:47:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Disagree with you. Edward is an honest (0+ / 0-)

        good person who is highly morally evolved.

        His and Eliz altruistic values rank higher than the typical person's self first values.

        The Dream Ticket can win the General Election

        by Pink Lady on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:13:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You are a poor advocate for Obama (0+ / 0-)

      Your attacks on other candidates are unnecessarily vicious and uninformed, and your expressed support for Obama is almost always coupled with smears on his opponents and those supporting them.

      Obama is my senator as well, but frankly, I'm embarassed by some of the people who come here to ostensibly promote his candidacy. I can't imagine the senator would condone the approach you've taken in your posts at this site.

      I guess that's the price of having a wide range of support. Build a big enough tent, and you're bound to let a few jerks in.

      "The world's a mess and I just need to rule it." -- Dr. Horrible

      by BobzCat on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:37:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Republicans for Voldemort! (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Potus2020, FOS, Pink Lady

    (that's why I picked "someone you forgot")

  •  Obama is starting a movement (4+ / 0-)

    Great diary. Obama is staying firm to his idea of building unity.  And 100,000 donors and many nw to political campaigns agree.

    Obama doesn't attack as forcefully as others because he genuinely believes that we need tranformational change in order to right our country, and that such change does not occur by simply firing off confrontational rhetoric as much as that appeals to the base. Indeed, confrontation in rhetoric is largely counterproductive if it only embarasses and insults the very people you need to vote for your cause.

    Obama supporters largely see this I think. the press however still doesn't and keeps demanding that he give specific plans. But, as greenwald clearly states and Obama's recent NH health care forum shows, outlining a plan right now is not as important as outlining a plan later, a plan that a large majority of the country can rally around. Q2 will mark this portion of his campaign

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens, can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead

    by dpg220 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:23:49 AM PDT

  •  Obama back up the wisdom of this diary today (5+ / 0-)

    from the ap: http://charlotte.com/...

    MASON CITY, Iowa --Illinois Sen. Barack Obama said Thursday he's moving cautiously to assemble a health care proposal to ensure he can build the political support needed to move the plan forward after he's elected.

    Obama noted that in previous campaigns, presidential candidates have offered detailed proposals without building that political support, only to see the issue fade after the election.

    "Every four years presidential candidates trot out their plans, then nothing happens," Obama said. "How do we build a movement for change so that when a president is elected there is actually a constituency and a consensus that is built so we can move the agenda through Congress."

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens, can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead

    by dpg220 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:29:05 AM PDT

  •  More (5+ / 0-)

    Obama said if he was starting from zero, he would likely support a single-payer system, similar to the government-run program in Canada. But he's leery of taking such a step because the United States already has a complex and established system of employer-based health coverage.

    Obama said that the country is already moving toward a government-based health system.

    "The government is already covering half the people," said Obama, noting that Medicare, Medicaid and veterans health systems cover a vast number of Americans.

    To build a political consensus for a new system, Obama said he'll hold a series of similar meetings to gauge public sentiment. He plans to offer a health care proposal in a couple months, he said.

    Obama rejected suggestions that higher taxes are inevitable in a revamped health care system.

    "We shouldn't just put more money into a system that isn't efficient," he said.

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens, can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has." -Margaret Mead

    by dpg220 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:30:49 AM PDT

  •  Unity (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    modemocrat, Potus2020, dotster

    The underlining message of Obama's campaign is a message of unity. We have suffered through the "us against them" for too long and we Americans of all stripes want a leader who’ll unite us. On the issues section of the Obama campaign site you'll find this:

    Senator Obama has been able to develop innovative approaches to challenge the status quo and get results. Americans are tired of divisive ideological politics, which is why Senator Obama has reached out to Republicans to find areas of common ground. He has tried to break partisan logjams and take on seemingly intractable problems. During his tenure in Washington and in the Illinois State Senate, Barack Obama has accumulated a record of bipartisan success.

    Senator Obama is running a campaign of unity because unlike the other two front runners he does not need to prove his liberal credentials since his legislative record speaks for itself .

    His campaign is being orchestrated beautifully by David Axelrod. To learn more about how Axelrod operates, I suggest that you read the NY Times article "Obama’s Narrator".

    "The struggle of humanity against power, is the struggle of memory against forgetting." -- Milan Kundera

    by LV Pol Girl on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:35:30 AM PDT

  •  I'd Say More of a (John F.) Kennedy Democrat Than (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    modemocrat, PaulVA, Potus2020

    a Reagan "Democrat"...because remember Reagan was just the Republican's best attempt at producing a JFK.  But even the best attempts fall short, where Kennedy was usually the most the most well informed guy in the room, Reagan was essentially an air head.  Where JFK was always the decision maker, Reagan relied on his cabinet.  Whereas Kennedy showed support for MLK while he was in jail, Reagan campaigned for 'states rights' after a lynching.  Where Kennedy was a war hero, Reagan played one in war movies.  Where JFK was youthful and charismatic, Ronnie was old but charming.  Reagan was known for a keen sense of humor, but Kennedy's was keener.  Reagan was said to be a great speaker, Kennedy is known as THE great speaker of his generation, and while conservatives fantasize that Reagan won the cold war, it is Kennedy 'Let them come to Berlin' speech that Berliner's watch in 'John F. Kennedy plaza' every year.

    So good post, but I think Obama is more of a JFK Democrat than a Reagan Democrat.

    •  You're probably right... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ArkansasLiberal

      To be honest, I'm really only working off what I know about Reagan, which considering I was born about a week after he was re-elected, isn't a a whole lot.

      Plus, calling Obama a Reagan Democrat is more controversial and imo more likely to make people read the diary... :-)

      At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollup, you c*nt. - Sen. John McCain

      by Potus2020 on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 11:53:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Gingrich is dangerous to us... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    PaulVA, Potus2020

    If he gets the Rep nod, he will appeal to many people.   He will say anything to get elected and then do what he damn well pleases...like Bush did.

    Gingrich is a horrible man, every bit as bad as Reagan.  

    The Dream Ticket can win the General Election

    by Pink Lady on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:05:19 PM PDT

    •  I almost ran him over (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Potus2020, Pink Lady

      Accidentally of course when I was backing my car to find a parking spot in Georgetown.  Oddly enough, he was with a very young blond and was sporting a cane.

      I apologized to him and joked that Democrats don't run over our opposition - though I wish we did in other ways.  

      This was in 2003, well before we actually did some running over last year.

      Pass the Employee Free Choice Act!

      by PaulVA on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:43:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Too bad, you could have done the (0+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        PaulVA

        country a big favor.

        (not serious, of course)

        The Dream Ticket can win the General Election

        by Pink Lady on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:45:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  My wife (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Potus2020, Pink Lady

          Got out of the car and was talking to him and the young blonde - I knew it was him as soon as he opened his mouth.  He was a very nice guy and wasn't pissed at all, then again, now that I realize who he was with, I'm sure the last thing he would have wanted was a confrontation.

          He's still a piece of shit though as a legislator.

          Pass the Employee Free Choice Act!

          by PaulVA on Thu Apr 05, 2007 at 12:49:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I want Obama to win (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    modemocrat, Potus2020

    and then I'd like to be made of fool of. That is, I'd like to see some real changes made by a real President ! Something I have lost all belief in. I'm ready to accept Obama as my President but is Obama ready to accept me, a most critical citizen as his base ?

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