a fundamental rift @ dkos?
Tue May 01, 2007 at 12:44:16 PM PDT
Like Welshman, I also disagreed stongly with Jerome a Paris's diary comparing Obama to the NeoConservatives. And I also wondered why such a sentiment was attracting so much support on DKos (though plenty of dissent as well, of course.) At first I thought perhaps it was just over-eager Edwards supporters, who were willing to latch on to any argument that diminished one of Edwards's rivals.
Then I happened across this seemingly unrelated diary ("The Truth about Kos and Kucinich") which has a poll, answered by 150 people, asking respondents if they are a "war abolitionist" or a "war pragmatist." The former won out slightly (54%/45%). It struck me that this may be a real ideological cleavage on this site, and I imagine the "war abolitionists" are the ones who sympathized with JaP's diary.
Well count me a "war pragmatist" and someone who would be delighted with an Obama presidency (though I also like Edwards). I agree with Jimmy Carter who said (paraphrasing) "Though war is sometimes a necessary evil, it is always evil." (italics mine) I do support wars that reduce the total amount of "evil," such as Clinton's intervention in the Balkans and of course WWII.
But it's a very delicate calculus that must be made with much care and deliberation. I trust Obama to take war seriously, and only use military force when all other options have failed, and that he would use it in concert with the international community (if we can't even convince our allies of our case we better take a hard look and figure out why... and no that doesn't mean France or anyone else gets a veto on our national security. If we have to work around the U.N., fine, but there better be a coalition - and not just some bullshit facade of one)
When I first started reading this site Bush was extremely popular nationwide and to oppose his policies made one highly suspect. The atmosphere was different. What I found on DKos were people making practical arguments as to why the current policies of our government were misguided at best, and very likely based on lies. Basic things like the evidence marshalled for WMD was flimsy, as was evidence for Sadam being connected to Al Qaeda, and that Iraq was made up of ethnicities that hated each other which could result in civil war, etc, etc, etc.
These were logical arguments based on evidence which really had nothing to do with ideology. The arguments were irrefutable and convinced me that our country was seriously on the wrong track. And while the "main stream media" largely ignored the evidence presented here, I for one was transformed by what I learned. I became a hardcore Democrat. Because it wasn't about ideology, it was about common sense and logic. If one political party has the market on those cornered, as the Democrats most certainly do, then I definitely want to be a part of it. I know that many others who gravitated to this site went through a similar process.
I think that more recently as things have shifted against Bush (finally, thank God) we are starting to see a rift in our community between those who were most impressed by the practical arguments and those who have strong ideological beliefs. Beliefs that frankly are well outside the mainstream of American culture. That doesn't make them wrong, of course. But "abolishing war" isn't what I signed up for.
I recently watched a documentary about John Lennon's political activism... and while I love him as a musician and even as a person, I realized that politically I'm just not on the same page. He was a wide-eyed idealist, and while we certainly need those, that's not who we want actually running the government. At the end of the day we need pragmatists.
Obviously many of you will disagree with me (or else my whole argument is wrong!) and that's fine. But personally I want to support someone in the fine tradition of FDR and JFK. A liberal who is strong, but more importantly, smart on National defense. I have a feeling if either of those candidates were campaigning today JaP would call them NeoCons as well. That's his right, but count me out.
[update: as long as I've got your attention, go over and vote in mrmathews diary, which I mentioned above. Yes, I realize it doesn't "prove" anything, but I'll be curious if a larger voting sample will change the outcome. Oh, and thanks for recommending me. I'm stepping away but will be back later this evening to reply to everyone.]
[update 2: I just took another look at mrmathews' poll and with 338 452 votes it's "war pragmatists" 56% 60%/ "war abolitionists" 43% 39%]
