Daily Kos

Frugal Fridays: Bad Debt and Good Debt

Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:25:34 PM PDT

Welcome to "Frugal Fridays" where we share money saving tips, discuss living frugally and generally talk about personal finance issues.  I keep reading about how Americans are carrying a higher debt load than ever before.  There are many possible causes of this that are outside an individual's control (everything from predatory credit card issuers to the fact that housing is more expensive relative to individual income than ever before in our history) and some that are definitely within every individual's control.  While most discussions start from the premise that being in debt is a bad thing, I think that may be a false assumption.   There are some aspects of debt that can be positive and some loans can be downright advantageous to the borrower.  The key is to figure out what kind of debt you have and jettison the bad, while keeping the great.

Bad Debt
The most common type of what I call "bad debt" is a loan where whatever it is that was bought with that loan is now worth less than is due on the loan.  Credit card debt is the most obvious example of this kind of debt, but store loans, some car loans and even some home mortgages can fall into this category.  This kind of debt is to be avoided at all costs.  If you are currently carrying any debt like this, you need to make it a priority to pay this off (see below).    

Good Debt
Good debt is debt that one has to take on to buy something that appreciates in value.  If the alternative to taking on this debt is to not buy this thing that will improve your life financially and/or spiritually, it is worth it to take it on.  However, depending on the interest rate, you probably still want to try to pay off this debt as soon as possible.  The most obvious example of this type of loan is a home mortgage, and some car loans, but I also include student loans in this category in most cases.  

Although a college degree may not necessarily lead to enough of an increase in wage earning capacity to make it a winning decision in the financial sense, the amount of increased earning you can get from a job with that degree is not the only measure of its value.  Sometimes that degree can lead to a happier or more fulfilled life.  Unfortunately, an education is one of those things that you have to purchase before you know what the true value will be to you.  Some people really regret going to school and incurring large student loans that weigh them down for years, and some people don't.  kath25's diary last night on Graduate School is a great place to start looking for advice if you are trying to decide if graduate school is right for you.

Note that I would only categorize these types of loans as "good" as long as the interest rate you are paying is higher than the current return you could get on your investments.  If you are paying significantly less than that, what you have is not "good debt" but "great debt"!

Great Debt
Great debt is debt you should seek out whenever possible and use it to your advantage.  This is debt where the interest rate is extremely low (or zero) for some period of time.  The key to remember is that lenders are not offering these loans out of the goodness of their hearts.  They are offering them to you because they think you are too stupid to pay off the loan before the advantageous period expires, because when it does expire, WHAM, they hit you with a huge penalty.  You may have to be careful and keep on track of deadlines, but you can save a lot by getting loans like this sometimes.  Great debt can include:

  • Interest Deferred Student Loans  These include the federal student loans as well as some loans offered by private universities.  Make sure that the interest truly does not accumulate while you are in school.  My contention is that even if you don't need to take out these loans to pay for school, because you have enough savings or other sources of income, it's a wise decision to take them out and save or invest your other income.  Since the loans accumulate no interest while you are in school, all the interest you gain on your savings is free money.  At the end of your schooling, you can use your savings to pay off the loans and keep the interest you earned for yourself.
  • Credit Cards  I know I said that credit card debt is bad debt, but that is only true if you are carrying a balance.  If you pay your balance off in full every billing cycle, you have made the credit card company pay immediately for your purchase, while you get an interest free loan for a few weeks.  When you add in the fact that you are getting increased security and convenience (it's hard to send cash over the internet) when you use a credit card, the deal is even better!  But wait, there's more!  You also get a free record of your purchase, so you can track and budget your expenses!  And better yet, you can even get the credit card company to pay you for the privilege of lending you money.  You may only make about 1% of your money back, but that is totally free money.  It makes me cackle out loud every time I think about it.  (And I wonder why people edge away from me in public.)
  • Balance Transfer Offers  If you are trying to pay off high interest debt, you may get offers for low interest balance transfer loans.  Keep in mind that the low interest offer is usually only for a few months and then the interest rate will skyrocket again.  However, a few months of low interest may be better than you have now.  In addition, you may be able to take advantage of a new offer in a few months and transfer the balance again.  Be sure to not use that credit card for any new purchases.  New purchases will be subject to a different (higher) interest rate and be assured that the credit card company will apply your payments to the balance that benefits them the most, not you.  Here's a site that might help you find the best offer for you.
  • No Interest or Payments Til Next Year  Often stores will run a sales promotion where they offer you a certain period of time where you don't have to make payments.  Before you accept this offer, first make sure this is something you wanted to buy anyhow.  Next make sure that interest does not accrue in this grace period.  Finally, before you go into this deal, make sure that you have the means and the ability to pay the loan off in full before the grace period expires.  If you don't already have the money in the bank, or know for certain that you will at that time, don't start down this road.
  • Low Interest Home Mortgages  Home mortgage rates are climbing now, but they still may be lower than the rate you are currently paying.  If they are, you should look at refinancing to a lower rate.  If you know for certain that you will be selling your house in a few years, you may want to look at a variable rate that remains fixed for 5 or 7 years and then varies.  Otherwise, I would suggest only looking at fixed rate mortgages.  You never know what will happen to interest rates and those of us that lived through the 70's (when loans of 10, 12 and 14% interest were common) are mighty skittish about subjecting ourselves to the vagaries of variable rate mortgages.  Keep in mind that there will be associated costs with refinancing, but run the numbers and see if it makes sense for you.  Here's a nifty calculator that might help.
  • Investment Loans (Real Estate, Stocks, etc.)  This is the least secure type of "great debt" to enter into.  If, for example, you are certain that the real estate market in your area will continue to increase at a double digit rate, it makes perfect sense to take out a loan to buy an investment property that you can flip in the short term for huge profit.  But the fact of the matter is there is no such thing as a sure deal in any investment market, as the folks in Las Vegas are learning now.  You can go this route, but you are taking a risk, so be sure and do a lot of research before you start down this path and don't risk anything you can't afford to lose.  During the height of the stock market bubble, I heard of people taking out second mortgages on their houses to invest in the market.  To me that was a crazy idea, if they lost it when the bubble popped, and the housing market dipped even a bit, they could be in danger of losing their house.  

Getting Rid of Debt
Every time I start looking at advice or suggestions for getting out of debt, I am struck by how similar the language is to diet and exercise advice.  Almost every persuasive argument in favor of (or obstacle in the path of achieving) your goal in one situation has a direct analog in the other.  I say this as someone who has been really struggling (with very little success, I might add) for years to lose weight and yet as someone who has only ever carried what I call "great debt" in my life.  How can I be so good at one of these tasks and so sucky at another?  I don't know, but it does give me more sympathy for those folks trying to get out of debt.  The main thing I can offer is this takes a concerted investment of time and energy and effort.  You will need to change your lifestyle and give up things you really enjoy.  If you need some motivation, try picturing what your life will be in five to ten years if you don't change your habits.  You will be even deeper in debt, and will have less time to remedy the situation before you reach a point where you can't work.  Here's my advice on how to get started:

  • Honestly Assess Your Situation

    Take a good long look at your financial situation.  Sit down with all your bills, your bank statements, your paycheck stubs and make a list of all your obligations.  You can do this the old-school way with just a pencil and paper, but there are free spreadsheet programs out there (e.g, Open Office, or Google Documents) so there is no need to make it even more difficult for yourself.  Make a spreadsheet showing each lender, the interest rate and the amount owed.  Make another sheet showing your monthly budget.  List everything you spent money on in the last 12 months.  List all your monthly expenses (rent, food, utilities, phone, gas, entertainment, clothes, haircuts, etc.) and list expenses that don't come up every month (car registration, insurance, property tax, medical, etc.)  Don't forget your tax obligation.  Just because it is automatically deducted from your paycheck doesn't mean it's not an expense you are paying.  If you have a category called "cash" and you don't know where you spent that, you need to figure that out.  For a month, carry around a little book or PDA and every time you spend cash, write it down.  

  • Make a Plan

    There are some great calculators on the web to help you figure out how long it will take to pay down a given debt.  This site has so many different ones, you should be able to find one to help you.  Be realistic in your savings goals.  Depending on the seriousness of your situation, just cutting down on your spending by giving up things you won't miss that much may free up enough in your budget to make a difference.  In more dire circumstances you may have to start looking for a second job or other ways to increase your income, at least in the short term.  Remember your goal is to completely eliminate your credit card debts.  You want to get to a point where all of your credit cards are paid in full every month and you are carrying no other consumer debt (stores, car loans etc.).  

  • Change Your Lifestyle

    This is the hardest step.  It's where the rubber meets the road.  For specific tips on how to save money, you can check out previous Frugal Friday diaries or pick up (from the library, of course) a how to book like Smart Women Finish Rich by David Bach or The Money Book for the Young, Fabulous & Broke by Suze Orman.   You will probably want to cut up most or all of your credit cards.  You may want to look into loan consolidation but be very careful before engaging any kind of credit counseling agency.  Some of these places are designed to take advantage of desperate people and you can end up in a worse financial situation than you started.

  • Enlist a Support Network

    It's so much easier to tackle a seemingly insurmountable problem if you have your own cheering section to boost your spirits when you get discouraged.  If you can't approach friends and family with this, for whatever reason, don't worry, you are in the age of the internet.  There is a whole community of "debt bloggers" who are blogging about their attempts to get out of debt.  They get helpful suggestions and positive reinforcement anonymously.  Here are a few I've come across:

Picking and Using Credit Cards Wisely
I had originally planned this as the topic of the diary, but as I started investigating this topic more, I realized that a lot of people are not yet at the point where they can use credit cards to their advantage, because they are already carrying large balances.  Hence my diversion above.  

Once you have eliminated all your "bad debt" it's time to start using credit cards as "great debt".  If you don't think you can be trusted to only charge what you can pay for immediately, then you may want to use a debit card instead.  Be aware that debit cards offer much less theft protection than credit cards.  If a thief steals your card and wipes out your account, you may eventually get the money back, but you have lost the use of that money while you are fighting with the bank.  My advice would be to open a separate bank account for that debit card; only put in that account the amount of money you are comfortable spending; and make sure that account is not linked by "overdraft protection" to your main account.  There are some web sites out there to help you find the credit card that best suits your needs.  Here are some things to consider.

  • Pick a card with a great rewards program and little or no annual fee.  Since you are always going to pay this card off, you don't care what the interest rate is.  If there is a rewards program that is particularly valuable to you it may be worth paying a low annual fee to get it.  Discover cash back program is pretty good, and they even have a deal where instead of taking cash, you can get gift cards for a greater amount.  For example, I can get $20 in cash or a $25 gift card to Borders.
  • If you are going to use the card abroad, look at what cards are accepted where you are traveling (for example, Discover card is not accepted in Europe) and look at what fees they charge for purchases in foreign currency (most charge 1 to 3%, but shop around and you can find some that don't charge any fee).  
  • Look for a card with a long grace period (the number of days from the statement date to when you must pay the bill to avoid finance charges).
  • Set up automatic payments.  Make sure you have a good system set up so that you always get your bill paid before the grace period expires.  If you do miss a payment, and finance charges start accruing, go on-line, check your current balance, and pay that entire amount (send the check for a little extra, to account for any interest before the payment is posted).  You need to drive the balance to zero to stop the interest charges from accruing.
  • Make sure they have on-line services.  The most important service they should offer is the ability to generate one-time use numbers that can be used when shopping on-line.  This way you can help reduce the possibility of identity theft by not sending your real credit information over the internet.  The second thing I would look for is the ability to pay your bil on-line.  More than once I have needed to use this service when I forgot to pay my bill until the last minute.  The ability to monitor your spending real time is also a great benefit.  

Update [2007-5-18 16:30:51 by sarahnity]: ARRGH!  I just realized it went out with the wrong title.  I wonder how long it will take this to update.

Poll

As a percentage of your annual income, what's the amount of bad debt you are currently carrying?

47%61 votes
12%16 votes
5%7 votes
7%9 votes
7%10 votes
6%8 votes
3%5 votes
3%4 votes
2%3 votes
1%2 votes
0%0 votes
2%3 votes

| 128 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Frugal Friday, Personal finance, teaching, community, credit cards, debt, economy (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 68 comments

  •  Debt Jar (35+ / 0-)

    Start paying your debts off here.

    If anyone is interested in writing a diary for this series, or you have a topic you'd like to see covered, or if you want to be added to the mailing list for announcing these diaries, email me: frugalfridays (at) gmail.com

    Frugal Fridays, where the cheap come to chat.

    by sarahnity on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:16:42 PM PDT

  •  Currently 0% bad debt, in the past? Near Disaster (7+ / 0-)

    Currently 0% bad debt, in the past? Near Disaster.

    All things considered a lot of things are more valuable as dreams than reality.

    I would never go back to that old buy anything way of life.

    Thanks for keeping up with the series:  I love it!

  •  A note on the balance transfer option (8+ / 0-)

    If considering transfering balances as suggested in the diary, also be aware that this can affect your credit score. How often your credit is run is part of that score, with a higher number of them negatively affecting your rating.

    •  Also, while some credit cards may offer a balance (7+ / 0-)

      transfer option and a low rate of interest, they may also charge a fee for that transfer.

      •  The fees are the catch (7+ / 0-)

        I've had as much as $40,000 borrowed off several credit cards at short-term 0%-3% interest, which I socked into  a money market account to earn 4.5% interest until the card promo period ended.  When the promo period ends, as the diarists says, you pay off the card in full--you make money off the deal.

        Used to be the fees were 3% of the total borrowed, with a maximum fee of $65.00 or %75.00.  On some cards it crept up to $99.00.  You really had to do the math to make sure you were still making money: how much was the fee, how big was the interest spread between what the card charges and what your savings account earned, and how many months do you have to enjoy the spread.

        Now, however, a lot of my cards have removed the maximum fee cap, meaning you pay 3% of whatever you borrow right off the top: borrow $10,000, for example, and you pay a $300 fee, plus the monthly interest.  No longer such a good deal.

        Also, be careful of when the promo interest rate period ends.  It often is worded something like "effective until your November statement opening date."  That isn't the same as the end of November.  It might mean November 3rd or something...they try and trick you into paying the full, non-promo interest rate (which can be 20% or more) for a full month.

        Finally, sometimes it might be worthwhile borrowing at a slightly higher promo rate (4.99% is common now) that lasts for the life of the loan.  Sock that money into an account earning 4.5%.  You lose a little bit, but then you always have a large, low-interest pool of money for an emergency.  But be careful...if you spend that money instead of keeping it tucked into a savings account, you can end up with a lot of that 'bad debt.'

    •  Also (6+ / 0-)

      One element of your credit score is how close you are to being "maxed out" on any or all of your credit cards. Balance Transfer offers encourage people to concentrate their debt on one card, getting the balance on that account close to its limit.

      •  I used to do balance transfers (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, sarahnity

        ..which is how I ended up with so damn many credit cards.  I haven't done a balance transfer in years now, though.

        I have about $10,000 in net credit card debt still, going back years.  I used to deal with it by balance transfers, but as several people have said, that affects your credit rating more.

        I do, however, still borrow substantial amounts at the short-term promo rates my various cards offer, if the math works out that I can make money by placing the borrowed money into my 4.5% money market for the duration.

        Most of my net credit card debt is locked in at a 1.99% life of the loan rate (about $8,000).  The rest costs me nothing right now because it is subsumed under the various low-interest rate monies I have earning 4.5%.

        For the past couple years, I've actually been earning money off my credit cards.  I'm still 4 months away from the end of a great 17 month borrowing of $13,000 at only 0.99% interest...that money has been earning in my money market, and I pay the monthly minimum payment right out of itself, so it doesn't affect my monthly cash flow.

        However, the good promos are drying up.  The low rates offered are creeping up, and the fees are going up, as I detailed above.

        Is there such a thing as 'good' credit card debt?  Probably not.  As I've said, the past couple years I've been making money off credit card debt (not a lot, maybe a few hundred buck a year net, but it's still free money), but in the end, if I had to pay everything off at one fell swoop, I am $10,000 in the hole.

        I have the debt.  I'm chipping away at it.  But I'm also trying to make the most of it, so much as that is possible.

  •  There is no good Credit Card Debt (10+ / 0-)

    use of credit cards to make incidental purchases causes the vendor to pay the credit card company a "discount" fee.  Since they cannot add it to the price of your credit card purchase, they raise everyone's price on products.  If we stayed away from this "good" debt, we would be paying less for our goods and services.

    There are bagels in the fridge

    by Sychotic1 on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:28:24 PM PDT

  •  No "bad" debt, but lots of debt. (5+ / 0-)

    All of my debt is student debt, but it still sucks.

    My Mom gave me a great tip on managing the debt. I have a big private loan that covered part of my MA degree. Now as a PhD I don't need to take out loans, but I have taken out Federally subsidized Stafford loans. I will then take an equivalent amount of money to pay off my private loan, trading the worse debt for the better debt.

    The private loan interest is really, really high, and they can't be consolidated. But the Fed loans can, and the interest rate is lower.

    (Thanks for the hat tip, sarah!)

    "Not just with words, but with deeds." -- Barack Obama

    by kath25 on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:35:19 PM PDT

    •  Avoid private student loans like the (4+ / 0-)

      plague if at all possible. You are much better off with Stafford or Perkins loans.

      •  Indeed, do. (4+ / 0-)

        I had no choice, as I didn't get enough Federal Loans to cover my tuition. I had saved about $10K working to cover what I could, but I had to go Private for the rest. Arg.

        Luckily, I actually have a halfway decent private lender who is affiliated with a State (not this one, thank God), and has pretty good policies. For instance, when I went back to school and got my Fed loans deferred, they deferred my Private ones.

        But places like Sallie Mae are the devil. They're bad. If your private lender is a publicly traded company, run, run away.

        "Not just with words, but with deeds." -- Barack Obama

        by kath25 on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:43:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I have done that (6+ / 0-)

      To deal with credit card debt.

      Over the last 5 years I racked up about $14K in credit card debt. No, folks, I wasn't buying plasma TVs and vacations to Tahiti. About $4,500 of that was for car repairs, and another $4,000 was for groceries and bills during summers where I couldn't find a job. $2,000 was for a computer I bought in 2001 and the remaining $3K-$4K went to an assortment of medical expenses, holiday trips home, and costs associated with a long research trip.

      I converted about $9K of that into student loan debt and took a second job to try and pay down the rest of it. I still have about $2K left but that's much easier to handle than before.

      I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
      Neither is California High Speed Rail

      by eugene on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:40:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is the thing (6+ / 0-)

        that I hear from way to many grad students -- the CC debt is all very basic stuff like food, basic expenses, car expenses, etc.

        Not good! But as long as we're so underfunded, there isn't much of another choice.

        "Not just with words, but with deeds." -- Barack Obama

        by kath25 on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:44:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That was my experience (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          eugene, DebtorsPrison, sarahnity, kath25

          The majority of the student loan debt I took on to make it through grad school (1997-2000) was for living expenses, not tuition. Even then, the amount I was able to borrow left me with about $700/month for everything. I was able to work 10-15 hours/week and still keep my grades up, so that bumped the monthly budget to about $1100. That was enough to cover the basics: housing (w/roommates), insurance, groceries, etc. Anything extra, e.g.: car repairs, going home for Christmas, replace a pair of shoes, went on credit cards.

          Also, the older you are when you go back to school the more overhead you tend to have, ergo the more money you have to come up with to maintain things while not working full-time. IIRC, if you're under 23 and a full-time student one can typically stay on their parents' health plan. On the other hand, trying to find $200 for a COBRA premium is a big deal when you have $1100/month to work with.

          Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

          by Joe Bob on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:20:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Student health plan (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Joe Bob, kath25

            When I was a grad student (up till '97) we were covered by the student health service like undergrads for anything routine.  I fortunately never had anything catostrophic, so I don't know what would have happened then.  I was at a state school though.  It may be different at private schools.

            Frugal Fridays, where the cheap come to chat.

            by sarahnity on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:34:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I had kind of the same thing (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              sarahnity, kath25

              I went to a state university as well. During the school year you either had to provide proof of insurance or you paid for the student plan, which was an additional fee added to your bill. Not cheap, either. The problem was the summer term: If you weren't in school, which I wasn't, you needed to pay the COBRA premiums until Fall semester rolled around. If you let your coverage lapse over the summer you would not have 'continuous coverage' and you would fall into the pre-existing conditions not covered circle of Hell.

              Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

              by Joe Bob on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:48:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  oh, and you're welcome! (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SarahLee, kath25

      Great diary last night.  Lots of interesting discussion!

      Frugal Fridays, where the cheap come to chat.

      by sarahnity on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:39:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Credit card companies should issue a card (5+ / 0-)

    that would earn carbon reductions every time a purchase is made. If such existed I'd get one.

    Sic Transit Gloria Locavore!

    by Asinus Asinum Fricat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:35:31 PM PDT

  •  Get a job. (8+ / 0-)

    Seriously. The quickest way to pay off debts is to find a second job.

    Yeah, it sucks, it's inconvenient, especially if you have a family or other obligations. But it's also one of the most rapid ways you can get rid of your debts.

    There are caveats, of course - if the second job requires you to drive a long distance then it may not be worth it, and you'll quickly become burned out. But for a year or so, it might be a sacrifice worth making.

    Ultimately the solutions, of course, are political. It is impossible for individuals to overcome this alone, and while there are things people can do to better ameliorate the situation, it takes political change - easier bankruptcy laws, crackdowns on predatory lending and shady business practices, and job creation programs as well as encouraging wage increases - to really get us out of debt.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
    Neither is California High Speed Rail

    by eugene on Fri May 18, 2007 at 01:43:45 PM PDT

  •  The card I use for most routine purchases... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity, Hardhat Democrat, kath25

    ...and which I pay off every month so as to pay no interest, gives points for every dollar, and 5 points for every grocery and drug store purchase.  2500 points gets a $25.00 gift card, 5000 gets $50.00, etc.  I generally earn at least a couple hundred dollars worth of gift cards per year,  usually cash in for gift cards for clothing, or from Staples or Home Depot, places for necessity purchases rather than frivolous purchases.

    •  what card is that? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DebtorsPrison

      I'm in the market for a new credit card (which is how I started this diary in the first place) ever since MBNA started adding a foreign currency transaction fee.  I figure I'll get a new card for my rare trips overseas and a card with a good rewards program for my day-to-day stuff.

      Frugal Fridays, where the cheap come to chat.

      by sarahnity on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:02:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's a CitiBank card (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        SarahLee, sarahnity

        One of the two I have from years ago (probably due to bank consolidations both ended up as CitiBank.  It has a horrendous interest rate if you don't pay it off monthly, but the points rewards are generous with the supermarkets and drug stores.

        It's a Citi Diamond Preferred, whatever that means.  The credit card companies have gotten so adept at slicing and dicing us all up into credit risks that I don't know how widely available it is, but check out their website.

        I didn't specifically apply for it.  It just somehow morphed into this on its own from an older card I had.

  •  Wow.... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity

    ...as it stands right now, 54% of Kossacks are carrying  no bad debt. Honestly, that's really hard to believe and I'm not sure those are honest numbers. I'll be honest though: I've got 4k in bad debt (credit cards) and 5k in good debt (student loans). I plan to pay them off by the end of this year. Woo!

  •  I don't use a credit card (4+ / 0-)

    except for official business when I am traveling for my job, and it's a card I can ONLY use for that. It must be paid in full when the bill comes.

    Otherwise I haven't used a credit card in almost 20 years. Although I do have one (through my credit union, no annual fee) I sometimes use when reserving hotels or rental cars (there are some places where you can't reserve a rental car using a debit card, though of course you can use one to actually PAY for the car) I never actually charge anything on it.

    There is a downside to all of this; when I bought my last car, they didn't know how to deal with me; I might have gotten a better rate otherwise, though I was later able to refinance with a lower rate. And when I bought my home, my lack of a credit history, apart from car payments, did create some obstacles though I was able to work through them. If you don't spend the American way, the credit folks get suspicious.

    One additional reference for you:
    Debtors Anonymous

  •  I have one iffy debt... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity

    .... though when we ran the numbers, it made sense.

    I have a 1.9% rate on a brand new vehicle; one which is on the slow-depreciation list.

    Since I was replacing a 37-year-old vehicle (still running; new owner is restoring my '70 Microbus, bought new when my youngest sib was 2, thanks for asking), it seemed that I could take on that debt.

    The only other debt we carry is our mortgage.  

    Those Home Depot "buy your snowblower in November, pay for it on May 1" deals are pretty sweet.  But I only needed that one once.

  •  only good debt for me (3+ / 0-)

    mortgages sure are big, and I haven't had it for a year yet.  That said, I've already shave about 2 years off my 30 year mortgage.

    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" - Barack Obama

    by pacified on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:19:18 PM PDT

  •  So-called good debt (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity, roses

    I had a moderate amount of debt from college, and a ginormous amount from grad school. The good: my salary in my first year out of grad school was double what I made the year before I went back to school. Also, I like my new line of work much more than my old one.

    The bad: The student loans are truly onerous. I work in a profession that demands a lot of academic credentials, but doesn't pay all that well in comparison. If I were to take the standard 10-year repayment plan on my loans the monthly payment would be about 45% of my net income. As it is, I will probably pay off my loans a few years before I start collecting Social Security.

    In retrospect, I question some of the choices I made about funding my schooling. I wanted to be a good student and I noticed that the people who were working 20+ hours/week tended not to do as well. So, I worked about 10-15 hours/week during the school year, borrowed what I had to, focused on my studies, graduated in the minimum time frame, and did quite well.

    Since then, I've done a lot of second-guessing of myself. Should I have gone part-time a couple semesters, earned some more money, and graduated a little later? Should I have taken on more work during school and been happy with being an average student?

    Ironically, I now have so much debt that the only way I could pay it off any sooner is if I went into a profession other than the one I trained for.

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    by Joe Bob on Fri May 18, 2007 at 02:41:45 PM PDT

  •  If we'd never taken on a mortgage, we'd never (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DebtorsPrison, sarahnity

    have had a house.

    I love reading about debt management, financial planning, and budgeting.  One of my favorite authors is Dave Ramsey, but if I'd lived by his precepts, we would never have had a house.  We'd have been paying rent for years and years and a house would always have been out of reach.

    We bought a house here in northern Virginia 31 years ago and it has appreciated approximately 10 times.  Even in this down market, the price is still up there.   (Not that we're contemplating selling.)  The original mortgage was paid off in 2001, 5 years ahead of the 30-year period we signed up for.

    The equity in our house has paid for some much-needed remodeling, two bathrooms in addition to the original one, and sent two kids to college.  Yes, we still need to pay off the  home equity credit line.  We pay $1,000 a month, of which something under half is interest.

    Sometimes I wonder what it would feel like not to have any HELOC debt at all and I wish I could think of a way to pay it all off.  But even at $1,000 a month, we're getting a 4-bedroom 3-bath house with a huge back yard and we do get a mortgage interest tax break--for now.

    As it is, although I think Ramsey and his "no debt, ever" philosophy has a lot to be said for it, I think we were WAY better off getting a mortgage and paying it off over time.  We certainly have enjoyed the living space!

    "Most women have no idea how much men hate them."--Germaine Greer

    by Diana in NoVa on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:06:59 PM PDT

    •  Your case is exactly what I was trying to get at (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DebtorsPrison

      In today's housing market, I don't think it is at all reasonable to tell people to wait until they can buy a house with cash.  It just ain't gonna happen in most folks' lifetime.  In my county, the median price of a single family detached home (not condo) is now over $800,000.  

      Frugal Fridays, where the cheap come to chat.

      by sarahnity on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:24:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A few pearls of wisdom (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity, roses, 1864 House

    Motley Fool is a good place to look for financial advice & low interest credit cards.

    If you have access to a credit union, look into it. Mine has credit cards at 9.75% apr, car loans at really good rates, and pays interest on my checking account.

    And do check your credit report from time to time. I recently found a glitch in mine that, had I been dealing with a "real bank" instead of my credit union, would have cost me the loan's approval!

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

    by WV Democrat on Fri May 18, 2007 at 03:55:00 PM PDT

  •  Debt-wise... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity

    we aren't in as bad a condition as all that. Mortgage and student loans, which both count as "good debt", basically. The house is in good condition and has appreciated slightly, so if we did want to sell it we'd do okay.

    The thing grinding us into the dirt is medical bills. And the last few rounds have been him incurring the bills, which is a problem because if he's sick enough to go to the doctor for it, he's probably got to be off work for a bit, and he doesn't get paid sick leave. We're just coming off of a week where he's been home with a painful infection. Next paycheck will suck.

    The thing that has knocked us down over and over again over the last twelve years is that there has not been a year where we haven't either had a baby, had a major surgery, or had the primary income earner out of work for three months. I pray we get a year where nothing happens and we can actually get some saving done and some serious paying down on the medical debts can happen.

  •  Well (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sarahnity, roses

    I was out of professional work--and consequently without a professional salary--for almost a year. I ran up credit card bills, and paying them back has been hard. I transferred the balances to a 0% rate card. When those promotions end I will look for another card and so forth.

  •  Thanks for bringing this up for discussion... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SarahLee, sarahnity

    since money and debt issues are the most taboo subjects.

    It takes a village to raise a special child.

    by roses on Fri May 18, 2007 at 05:32:06 PM PDT

Permalink | 68 comments