John Kerry: Please Stop Trying To Justify The Inexcusable. Also, STOP PARROTING RIGHT WING FRAMES.

Senator Kerry:

Please stop defending the indefensible. We all know that Democrats have the power to cut off funds. We know that they're not willing to cut off those funds (even though it's the right thing to do) because they don't want to be blamed for losing the war. You're afraid of being called traitors. You're proving yourselves cowards.

Giving Bush what he wants at this point, after he's repeatedly proved his contempt for the separation of powers, the rule of law and the will of the American people, is a betrayal to ALL AMERICANS and an act of moral cowardice. You are exploiting Bush's delusions for the sake of political expediency. Shame on you.

We all know that Iraq is a failed state. The entire professional class and middle class have fled...

There IS NO GOVERNMENT because all of the infrastructure was looted (down to the copper wires in the walls) in 2003. We know how utterly incompetent our occupation has been. We know that the CPA was stocked with Bush cronies and Republican staffers with no expertise. We know that there was NO LEADERSHIP in Iraq, and that the US Military fought with the CPA constantly. We even know about the Oil Law, about how American Corporations are going to get a criminally large share of Iraq's oil profits. We know that NO PROMINENT DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE KNOW THIS IS A HOPELESS WAR. WE KNOW THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE PROTECTING THE AMERICAN EMPIRE. WE KNOW ALL OF THIS, AND STILL WE SUPPORT YOU.

Despite your clear political opportunism, we're still going to fight by your sides. We're going to vote for you, and give you money, and volunteer for you.

AFTER THE PRIMARY CHALLENGE.

The days of the passive, sell-out Democratic party are coming to an end.

Your presidential campaign, in fact, symbolized the political pinnacle of you go-along-to-get-along Imperial Democrats. You ruling class whores, obsessed with what the media thinks.  

Your days are done.

So please, stop posting on Daily Kos. We know that you don't give a damn about our beliefs, about truth, or about morality. If you did, you would be crusading to DEFUND THE WAR.

Also, please stop parroting right wing frames like 'support the troops'. That's one of the reasons you lost in 2004. Another reason is that YOU REALLY CARED ABOUT WHAT JOE KLEIN THOUGHT ABOUT YOU.

Your loss in 2004 was historical in nature. It put the responsibility for the Iraq War and Abu Ghraib on AMERICAN DEMOCRACY. The only reason you lost was because you were SUCH A COWARD.

There was a time when I supported you. But really, you're so bad on camera  I just wish you would stop talking. Maybe if you had ANY PRINCIPLES, you'd be relevant.

•  I'm just sick of Kerry

  He had his shot. When he panders, it makes me EVEN ANGRIER.

  He should get out of the spotlight and let Jim Webb speak up.

  by ConsiderDetroit on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:47:26 AM PDT

  •  Congrats on the Troll Diary

    Kerry must be pretty influential with the management.

    I don't see this as a troll diary. At worst, I'd call it excessive venting.

    by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:15:40 PM PDT

    •  I see this as the truth.

      I'm tired of listening to these "democrats" who turn out to be DLC republican lites.  I want to see more progressives in congress and get these wimps out of power.  I want to see our Democratic Leadership to stand up and support us.  Not act like punch drunk idiots who back down because they cannot get out the "12 year minority" mindset.  I'm no troll. I am worse.  I am a PROGRESSIVE who wants change. NOW!

      by miller415 on Thu May 24, 2007 at 01:05:31 PM PDT

  •  Webb? Won't Webb vote YES on the funding?

    I do not understand your logic here at all!

    Webb has come out multiple times saying he does not support defunding the war!

    never mind that that I think this is a ridiculous, trollish diary...if you think Webb is a "better Democrat" or more progressive or whatever than John Kerry, I think you are in for a shock. If you bother to actually pay attention, that is.

    by MH in PA on Thu May 24, 2007 at 04:05:54 PM PDT

  •  Webb voted against Reid/Feingold.

    Not only do you lack any sense of decency or respect, you're ignorant to boot.

    Webb is probably going to vote for this bill.

    by beachmom on Thu May 24, 2007 at 04:51:41 PM PDT

  •  So,

    Webb is right:

    To vote against Feingold/Reid that matched funding to the Democratic policy

    To vote against a Kerry/Feingold measure that required climate change to be taken into consideration on all water projects.

    To again make the point on the floor of the Senate that most people were behind the Vietnam War in the 1970s.

    by karenc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 05:22:10 PM PDT

•  Totally inappropriate.

  by Scout Finch on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:50:28 AM PDT

  •  What do you mean?

    Kerry, or me bashing Kerry?

    I guess I'm taking out my anger on Kerry, but I really think he's just pandering. He's trying to keep us on board (at the behest of the Democratic leadership that let this bill pass).

    I'm on board in the medium/long term, but not because of people like Kerry.

    by ConsiderDetroit on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:58:06 AM PDT

    •  Because he is a member of this community

      as well and you have been downright rude and obnoxious.....even going so far as to call him a "coward".  And yet, you accuse him of parroting right wing talking points.  That's pretty rich.

      You could have voiced your opinion in his diary, but you took it a step further to write a totally insulting diary.

      Disagree with him or not, we are damn lucky to have people like Senator Kerry engaged in the dialogue here at Daily Kos and diaries like this don't help to keep them around.  There are ways to respectfully disagree without being so nasty.

      by Scout Finch on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:08:52 PM PDT

      •  I disagree

        Disagree with him or not, we are damn lucky to have people like Senator Kerry engaged in the dialogue here at Daily Kos and diaries like this don't help to keep them around.

        I'd rather not give access to John Kerry if he's going to use it to apologize for the Democratic leadership.

        I also don't understand this comment.

        you have been downright rude and obnoxious.....even going so far as to call him a "coward".  And yet, you accuse him of parroting right wing talking points.  That's pretty rich.

        The author was essentially rude/obnoxious, although I'd say 'hostile', but I don't understand your use of 'and yet,'.

        by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:12:48 PM PDT

        •  I meant that he accused Kerry of parroting

          right wing talking points.....and yet he goes on to do the exact same by framing Kerry as a "coward."  Pot, meet kettle.

          by Scout Finch on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:14:55 PM PDT

          •  Okay, I can see that...

            Although I'd say it's not really an apt comparison. The diarist is calling Kerry a coward for not fighting to defund the war. Reps call Kerry a coward for not fighting to keep the war going, or they just call him a coward for the hell of it. Basically, the Republicans are clearly wrong when they do it, and they do it for political gain. The diarist seems to be expressing a genuine outrage.

            Either way, John Kerry has taken more than his share of crap. But if you're going to try and persuade the netroots, you should expect stuff like this. People really care about Iraq.

            by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:19:44 PM PDT

            •  Yes, I understand the outrage.

              I am outraged as well.  But, unlike the rest of the Dem leadership, Senator Kerry came here today to discuss it with our community.  Personally, I think that took courage in and of itself.

              Like I said, we can express our displeasure and our anger without saying such nasty things about one of our own.

              by Scout Finch on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:25:06 PM PDT

              •  True Nuff.

                by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:32:14 PM PDT

      •  Many times I have agreed with yourcomments, Scout

        but this is not one of them.  We have a "secret trade aggreement" that the Dems are going to pass.  The way the Repug's and the corporist are reacting, you would think it is viagra.  The democratic majority is bowing to President 28% on the iraq funding.  We, you, I and the Democratic voters made the Dems the majority for change.  But all we are getting is a different verse but same as the first.  Playing nice is over.  If these bills pass, then we must work on getting new leaders in congress.  Any and all democrats that were elected before 06 should be retired to spend more int with their families.

        by miller415 on Thu May 24, 2007 at 01:17:16 PM PDT

    •  Kerry is AGAINST the compromise bill

      He's voting "NO". He is not doing this at the behest of the Democratic leadership. Do you have any memory of how they treated him (and to a lesser extent) Feingold last year when they led the effort to change the plan.

      If Webb were doing what Kerry has done since January, you would be estatic. To me it looks like there is nothing Kerry could do that would make you happy.

      by karenc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 05:26:54 PM PDT

•  Calling someone who had

  the balls to stand up and speak against the atrocities  that happened during the vietnam war, a coward, is b.s. Senator Kerry may have given up on his presidential race a bit too soon for most of us, but a coward he is not... He is here, taking time to speak to us, we can at least show him a little respect, and not call our war heros cowards.

  by dotdot on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:56:39 AM PDT

  •  Yea, he is a coward

    I respect what he did in vietnam. I know that he risked his life on the front of a swiftboat and is a genuine American hero. I respect his choice to speak out about vietnam when he came home.

    But he's being a coward now. Just like McCain.

    by ConsiderDetroit on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:59:35 AM PDT

    •  Who in the Senate is leading more

      than Senator Kerry and Feingold.

      by karenc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 05:32:52 PM PDT

    •  Base & baseless.Kerry is one of the best we have.

      IMO, THE best. Others disagree, but most DEMOCRATS consider him a great leader.

      He is leading on the Iraq issue, veterans issues, global warming, and a host of other things.

      He doesn't have to come to dailykos and read crap from people like you.

      You clearly have NO idea what he is doing yet you see fit to post a diary bashing him.

      Pathetic.

      by MH in PA on Thu May 24, 2007 at 06:18:42 PM PDT

  •  Kerry displayed courage before his campaign

    But during his campaign, that John Kerry had been locked in a closet by Bob Shrum and instead we all saw this weak, unsure, and pandering politician. The pre and post election John Kerrys would have been good enough to win, but the DC consultants told him that he needed to be as vague as possible and just let Bush destroy himself. Barack Obama is repeating this mistake, having courageously stood against the war and now backing down and doing his best to avoid any sort of controversy on anything.

    by dole4pineapple on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:14:17 PM PDT

    •  I hope Obama gets his act together

      If he tries to defend this bill, it will REALLY hurt him.

      by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:22:22 PM PDT

      •  That demonstrates how fair you are

        Kerry is trashed for not stopping this bill when he is against it.

        Obama merely has to not defend the compromise?

        by karenc on Thu May 24, 2007 at 05:35:13 PM PDT

•  Just a bunch of personal attacks

  This is the definition of a troll diary.

  by Dr Colossus on Thu May 24, 2007 at 11:58:40 AM PDT

  •  Nah, theres a bit of substance about Iraq

    I've read several books on the subject. I'd recommend Fiasco and Life in the Emerald City before all others.

    by ConsiderDetroit on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:00:43 PM PDT

•  Occupation.

  Not a war.

  Occupation.

  (My day wouldn't be complete without noting that).

  by Diaries on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:10:30 PM PDT

•  Feel better now?

  You want an ice cream? Cookie?

  by bam bam on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:11:00 PM PDT

•  I stand by John Kerry!

  Because John Kerry stands by us! Stands by the soldiers! And stands by every voter who wanted us out of Iraq.

  I give props to John Kerry for taking this stand and not giving in like the party leadership. That is what defines this Senator, taking stands!

  by bobbyd100 on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:19:03 PM PDT

•  Please delete this diary.

  It is pointless and offensive.

  I, for one, and I'm guessing I'm not alone, judging from the rec list, am very interested in reading his thoughts.

  by Petronella on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:19:35 PM PDT

  •  Delete the diary?? Really?

    I can understand being upset by it, but I think it comes from a legitimate place.

    by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:21:21 PM PDT

    •  I think it's rude and pointless.

      I'm not upset, I just find it rude and pointless.  I also think it makes the community look childish and unrealistic.  If someone with Kerry's stature and inside knowledge posts a diary giving his view of a recent significant political event, it's a little embarrassing to have someone post a diary like this, full of lame personal attacks, in response.  It makes us seem like we ARE all anti-social teenage boys blogging in the basement.

      by Petronella on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:31:19 PM PDT

      •  That sounds a little concern-trollish

        Since when did DK care what the establishment thought?
        Are issues of stature and fears of looking childish really worth censoring ourselves for? I could understand if the diary was utterly untrue or laced with profanity, but I think there are plenty of people like this diarist. We need to tolerate them and teach them, not delete their diaries.

        by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:36:10 PM PDT

        •  Ah, I was asking the diary-writer

          to delete, not someone else.  That's a different sort of request.  I'm not saying this is trollish and needs to be deleted by an admin., just that the diaryist might want to reconsider posting something like this.

          There is looking childish, and there is being childish.

          by Petronella on Mon May 28, 2007 at 10:47:23 AM PDT

    •  I don't think it's a troll diary.

      I just think it's a rant with a side of rage that probably should have been one of those things that you write and then sit on for a bit before you hit "publish".

      And I do wish it were deleted.  I don't think it reflects well on us as a whole.  I'm sure others will disagree, but that's my two cents.

      by Scout Finch on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:32:31 PM PDT

      •  DK aint a monolith

        If every diary had to 'reflect well on us' there'd be a lot less diaries.

        But I also understand your wanting it to be deleted, in the sense that you wish that it just didn't exist.

        I guess the reason that I'm hovering in this thread is that I do understand where the diarist is coming from, in that the Iraq war (occupation) is clearly a lost cause, and therefore, sending more troops and more funds into the pit is irrational and immoral. I can understand how that would make someone incredibly angry.

        That being said, I'd agree with your argument that the author should have decided to sit on it for a bit.

        by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:41:00 PM PDT

•  What's Up?

  Is it cowardice, or excessive timidity, and how can one distinguish between them? Did Reid and Pelosi simply give up to the cement-headed Bush and believe his scam that our troops will go hungry and without ammunition, and will be slaughtered because Bush wasn't given funds to pursue his war for oil and bases and hegemony? It's hard to believe this twist of the drama. Is there ANY strategy behind this move to give Bush the farm?

  by peter fredson on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:26:49 PM PDT

  •  Now, THIS may be trollish

    by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:46:08 PM PDT

•  asdf

  The only reason you lost was because you were SUCH A COWARD.

  This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read here.  Take a bow.  

  WE KNOW THIS IS A HOPELESS WAR. WE KNOW THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE PROTECTING THE AMERICAN EMPIRE. WE KNOW ALL OF THIS, AND STILL WE SUPPORT YOU.

  What you mean "WE", white man?

  There IS NO GOVERNMENT because all of the infrastructure was looted (down to the copper wires in the walls) in 2003.

  Time to put the crack pipe down and go beddy-bye.

  by MajorFlaw on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:39:04 PM PDT

  •  The first comment was outrageous, but the other

    two were true.

    This war is hopeless. America is an empire (read Nemesis by Chalmers Johnson).

    Also, there really is no Iraqi government. The infrastructure WAS looted (including the copper wiring in gov't buildings), and militias provide most gov't services. The Iraqi's are in the green zone, and are therefore just as isolated as the Americans.

    Again, I see a surprisingly strong/dismissive reaction to true (though angrily expressed) arguments by this diarist.

    I think most Dems just want to move on, and reading fresh rage like this is very offputting.

    by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:45:06 PM PDT

    •  My problem with the second comment was not the

      description of the US as an empire but the broad brush used to paint Dems.  Someone should probably tell Feingold, Kucinich, Conyers, etc. that their job is to protect the empire as they apparently didn't get the memo.  

      by MajorFlaw on Thu May 24, 2007 at 01:00:24 PM PDT

      •  That's not how you came off in the first comment

        I certainly agree that there are plenty of good progressive dems, but many are still holding their tongues (for the most part) in order to protect leadership and limit the political backlash from the base. Clearly, Kucinich and Feingold are more the exception than the rule.

        What kind of leaders give Kucinich this wide of an opening? I basically as far left as he is, but I really dislike his persona. He called the attached minimum raise increase 'blood money', and he's right. Dennis Kucinich is closer to reality that these people, and he's a crazy vegan leprechaun!

        Also, you've said nothing to justify your 'put down the crackpipe' statement with regards to the third point.

        I think this Diarist is telling us an 'inconvienient truth' and there are a sizable number of Kossacks (albeit a minority) who basically agree with him/her. He/she clearly hit a sore spot, because many people's reactions to the diary have been almost as  enthusiastic (and hostile) as the Diarist was towards Kerry.

        I think that there's a lot of anger/frustration here and it's spilling over on both sides. I'm sure we'll move past it within the next few days, but until then, lets try to be level headed enough to at least acknowledge what is actually true.

        by AfterThought on Thu May 24, 2007 at 01:53:15 PM PDT

•  I've been upset with Kerry since the election

  I gave him a lot of money I didn't have for a recount fund because we knew there would be problems with getting our votes counted. I was so upset when he gave up on us 12 hours after the polls closed, then kept our money. I'm still upset with him and don't listen to him much.
  Sorry, that's how I feel.
  Movein' on...

  by MomFromHlwdFL on Thu May 24, 2007 at 12:52:43 PM PDT

•  Senator Kerry should continue posting here.

  You are entitled to your opinion, but not entitled to try and stop others from expressing theirs. Cutting off funding to our troops is a difficult decision and may not be the best way to end this war. Any decision is difficult when it involves the welfare of our troops. Cutting funding may have worked for Vietnam, but that doesn't mean it was the best way to end the conflict. That decision made years ago still has repercussions even today. Senator Kerry is voting against this latest bill because it doesn't measure up to his ideas on what is necessary to end this war in the best way possible for America and our troops.

  I am as disapointed as you are in how this bill has been negotiated, but that is not Senator Kerry's fault. He has been one of the people who has taken the lead and taken a beating for standing up and demanding timetables and binding benchmarks  long before many others in Congress would even consider them. He wants to see this war come to an end also.
  Your anger and finger pointing are misdirected.

  by wisteria on Thu May 24, 2007 at 05:36:26 PM PDT