Daily Kos

Time to Block all Food and Medicine Imports from China

Sun May 06, 2007 at 06:57:27 AM PDT

How many instances of deadly tainted food and medicine does it take to finally come to the conclusion that the risk of importing food and drugs from China is too risky a proposition?  Really....How many? How many pets and humans have to die before the FDA, manufacturers, and consumers say no more? At what point can nothing from China be trusted?

From the today's NYT:

From China to Panama, a Trail of Poisoned Medicine
The kidneys fail first. Then the central nervous system begins to misfire. Paralysis spreads, making breathing difficult, then often impossible without assistance. In the end, most victims die.

Many of them are children, poisoned at the hands of their unsuspecting parents.

The syrupy poison, diethylene glycol, is an indispensable part of the modern world, an industrial solvent and prime ingredient in some antifreeze.

It is also a killer. And the deaths, if not intentional, are often no accident.

Over the years, the poison has been loaded into all varieties of medicine — cough syrup, fever medication, injectable drugs — a result of counterfeiters who profit by substituting the sweet-tasting solvent for a safe, more expensive syrup, usually glycerin, commonly used in drugs, food, toothpaste and other products.

Toxic syrup has figured in at least eight mass poisonings around the world in the past two decades. Researchers estimate that thousands have died. In many cases, the precise origin of the poison has never been determined. But records and interviews show that in three of the last four cases it was made in China, a major source of counterfeit drugs.

Panama is the most recent victim. Last year, government officials there unwittingly mixed diethylene glycol into 260,000 bottles of cold medicine — with devastating results. Families have reported 365 deaths from the poison, 100 of which have been confirmed so far. With the onset of the rainy season, investigators are racing to exhume as many potential victims as possible before bodies decompose even more.

That's how the article starts.  It continues by disclosing the details of how particular counterfeiters sold diethylene glycol as glycerin...how these individuals with no chemistry background got into selling counterfeit chemicals.  And how the Chinese "regulatory system" can't touch these individuals since they have no jurisdiction over non-pharmaceutical companies that are selling these chemicals. It also, details how these chemicals go through multiple trading companies and how the documentation accompanying the material many times gets altered along the way making it impossible to know from what company the material originated from.

Money and greed drive the whole thing.  All the examples given detail how the perpetrators do it to make more money.  What astounds me is that companies will buy these components and fail to test the raw material by analytical chemistry methods such as mass spectrometry to confirm the identity of the raw material.  For pharmaceuticals in this country, this is required by FDA.  But for food components used in US prducts, I am not aware whether this is true, especially given what we all know happened with Menu Foods.

Last week, the United States Food and Drug Administration warned drug makers and suppliers in the United States "to be especially vigilant" in watching for diethylene glycol. The warning did not specifically mention China, and it said there was "no reason to believe" that glycerin in this country was tainted. Even so, the agency asked that all glycerin shipments be tested for diethylene glycol, and said it was "exploring how supplies of glycerin become contaminated."

China is already being accused by United States authorities of exporting wheat gluten containing an industrial chemical, melamine, that ended up in pet food and livestock feed. The F.D.A. recently banned imports of Chinese-made wheat gluten after it was linked to pet deaths in the United States.

Beyond Panama and China, toxic syrup has caused mass poisonings in Haiti, Bangladesh, Argentina, Nigeria and twice in India.

This alert by FDA was mentioned yesterday in Susan Hu's diary China Exports Poisoned Medicine While FDA Cuts Back Labs. Susan, Goldy and others are curious as to the timing of this release, questioning whether this had any connection with the tainted pet food, since diethylene glycol can and does cause kidney failure if it is ingested.

What Can Be Done?

The US government has two choices if it wants to protect its citizens.....get extremely vigilant about testing for known counterfeit components and ban imports of drugs and foodstuff that originates from China.

The first option can be problematic when there can be a host of contaminants we may not know to look for, especially in complex compoanents (not simple chemicals).  And the second option can be tricky when raw materials can go through three or four differnet middlemen in countries other than China.

However, I believe a combination of both should be employed in this situation.  If China can not get a handle on their counterfeit/contaminated raw materials problem, then the US should not allow raw products from their country to be imported into the country.  AND US manufacturers and the FDA should be vigilantly testing these raw materials.  

This will require George Bush to better fund FDA so that it can expand the number of testing labs it has along with the number of regulators inspecting manufacturing firms.  This will require him to back greater regulation, not less, which goes against his ideology.

But it is time that Americans demand that everything possible be done to secure our food and drug supply from both counterfeiters and the terrorists George W. Bush so likes to invoke whenever he wants to prolong the war or secure more money for the military and Dept of Homeland Security.

Because, next time it might not be our pets that secumb to poisoning.  It might be our kids or our parents.

Tags: FDA, pet food recall, China, melamine (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 56 comments

  •  Yes, block all food and drug imports from China! (13+ / 0-)

    It is absolutely absurd for us to continue importing any foods or drugs from the Chinese.
    They do not have regulations.  This needs to be legislated immediately, and companies found violating the new legislation need to be charged with murder.

    "United we stand, divided we fall"

    by Cassandra77 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 06:55:45 AM PDT

    •  retaliation (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rb608

      If we start this game because of one impurity in chemicals, The the planet will kick back and start all sort of thing

      • They gona start banning all US GMO based product. Soy beans, wheat, cotton, everything.
      • Mad cow disease. Remember beef war with Japan much of Asia and europe?

      Nevemind a couple gallon of glycol. They gonna retaliate by stop buying severtal metric tons of farm feed product a day.

      Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

      by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 06:59:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So we should just let them poison us????? (12+ / 0-)

        Granted this has implications...but we need to play hardball with them saying selling tainted materials is simply unacceptable....China needs to be getting a handle on their food and chemicals.

        •  Besides it's not just the US (9+ / 0-)

          that could block their products....the whole world could band together if this trend continues.

          •  please man. (0+ / 0-)

            we are killing several thousands Iraqis each day. Kinda embarrassing getting all hype up about saving few dead panamanians and bunch of pets.

            It's noble, but also infinitely trivial.

            time to keep it real, right?

            Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

            by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:38:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  how about (0+ / 0-)

          ... stop buying crappy and poisonous product. (ie. inspection and food standard.)

          obviously these corporations are cutting corner and buying product that is not meant for medical/human consumption use.

          glycol is industrial product, do you even know how much of these chemical being use for all sort of industrial processes each day? Obviously the panamanian are buying thisng that is not good enough for human consumption.

          This doesn't mean a chemical company in china might not cheat and sell lower grade product and sell it for human consumption.

          It ain't chinese problem we buy crappy and dangerous stuff. It's a failure of inspection regime for food product. At best it's industrial fraud. What you gonna do? fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here?  Can't fight the entire planet if our own inspection regime is being dismantled.

          while you are busy whining about pets getting killed or dead panamanian. How about investigating Elly lilly for using ethyl mercury and causing mental retardation in children via vaccine?

          ever wonder why it never get investigated or why there is new law regarding medical class action?

          Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

          by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:36:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  AB SO LUTELY (0+ / 0-)

      geez.  But Bush won't because it might hurt profits.

      fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!

      by seesdifferent on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:39:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Block all imports of any kind from China! (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Annalize5, esquimaux, cynndara

      It is absolutely absurd for us to continue importing anything from the Chinese.

      They do not have regulations.

      Actually, I'm serious.

      Bring me a blind camel.

      by pucklady on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:08:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (3+ / 0-)

        It's time to ban ALL imports from China, without exception, and only begin re-admitting them on a case-by-case basis after thorough consumer safety reviews.  Baby bibs with lead in them aren't food or drugs, but they still poison our kids.  There are hundreds of ways in which defective products are life-threatening, for which we have regulatory protections and the threat of lawsuits in this country, but no recourse whatsoever if the offshore producer can hide beneath the veils of a complaisant non-intervening bureaucracy as in China.  Since it is clear that China either cannot or will not police its own producers -- and they have solid strategic reasons to be completely unconcerned about minor inconveniences to the American public like the deaths of our dogs or our children -- we need to provide a means and a reason for producers to give a holy sh*t what they try to palm off on us.

        Of course, this is just another facet of the fact that America is swiftly becoming a third-world country.  For decades our corporations have been dumping this kind of crap on small, helpless countries that don't dare to complain or whose officials are owned outright by the payoffs
        ... now we're feeling what it's like when the shoe is on the other foot.

  •  Once again George W. Bush's ideology of limited (12+ / 0-)

    government and rolling back regulations puts us in danger of the greed promoted by such a free market system.......where people will sell you adulterated products that are cheaper to make in order to make more money.

  •  I agree with first commenter (9+ / 0-)

    There's no second choice here.  We do not have time to work out how to test for intentional substitution of good food and drug ingredients for fake ones.  Just block Chinese food imports overall and be done with it.  Let them sort out the implications of letting counterfeiters run rampant through their economy.

  •  bear in mind the following: (6+ / 0-)

    PharMa will use such incidents to argue against reimportation from Canada, even of their own drugs.

    I am not saying you are wrong.  I am saying that I have seen where Pharma is going - I participated more than a year ago in a Luntz-run focus group which shopped precisely such reasoning.

    do we still have a Republic and a Constitution if our elected officials will not stand up for them on our behalf?

    by teacherken on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:01:35 AM PDT

    •  Canada (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sharon in MD

      It's funny because that was their EXACT rationale for not allowing Canadian medicine in and yet despite the fact that we aren't allowing Canadian medicine in..... we have tainted medicine. It is so obvious the system is broken at this point. Personally, I think we should stop importing consumables entirely at this point until we can get an adequate testing system in place.

  •  It feeds into (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rb608, Pink Lady

    ...the doing away with Roe V. Wade.  Keep the supply of worker drones intact and the lack of oversight of food additives doesn't matter.

    Fear will keep the local systems in line. -Grand Moff Tarkin -SLB-

    by boran2 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:02:41 AM PDT

  •  Isn't this an act of terrorism. (4+ / 0-)

    This may be causing more deaths than on 9/11, and raises core concerns about our safety. Though Reagan Republicans continue to ignore this serious issue.

    Republicans : Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor

    by ctsteve on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:12:01 AM PDT

    •  If not terrorism (4+ / 0-)

      it at least underscores the vulnerability of our ports. Only 1% of food imports are inspected. And remember that the glutton that came from China was  mixed in with textile imports!

      The War On Terror is here at our shores not in Iraq. We need to reexamine our priorities and allocate our resources in an effective way to protect our country.

      Four out five sock puppets agree

      by se portland on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:39:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The FDA should do its job (9+ / 0-)

    and in the meantime, stop food shipments from China until safeguards and increased inspections can take place.  Personally, I'm buying my meat, fruit and vegetables from local American sources. I'm trying to NOT buy anything made in China - just on general principles.

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

    by moose67 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:35:42 AM PDT

  •  Some more info about DEG (0+ / 0-)

    from the World Health Organization (WHO) regarding pharmaceutical contamination here

    and regarding health and safety, properties, toxicology etc.. here

    Nothing is ever broken that can't be fixed if enough people are committed ~ Bill Moyers

    by cosmic debris on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:36:34 AM PDT

  •  nope (3+ / 0-)

    I dont know what to believe anymore..  This china poisoning is supposed to come from china..Our govt. and our media is telling us this..I know they lie to us over and over.  I just dont know who or what to believe anymore, but I sure dont believe our govt or our media.  

  •  Corporate Greed (8+ / 0-)

    All of this so they can make more profit. How come the Board of Health can shut down a restaurant immediately if the find some little violations with soap or trash cans and the temperture of some food ? We need to do some research and buy as much of our consumer goods locally as possible. If the Gov doesnt take action then it is up to us to boycot these products that are questionable. I'm at a point where if the product has too many ingredients I can't pronounce then I don't buy it. Eat God made food not man made food.

    •  I have been looking for (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Sharon in MD

      local Oregon farms. If you eat meat you might want to check out eatwild

      Meat, eggs, and dairy products from pastured animals are ideal for your health. Compared with commercial products, they offer you more "good" fats, and fewer "bad" fats. They are also richer in antioxidants. Just as important,  the grass-fed products listed on eatwild.com are free of added hormones, antibiotics, and other drugs and chemicals.

      Four out five sock puppets agree

      by se portland on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:13:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why jump to everything Chinese? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    elmo, Deward Hastings

    When a US product exported abroad is found to be harmful, say when Chloramphenicol was found to cause aplastic anemia, would it have been reasonable for other countries to "Block all Food and Medicine Imports from the United States"? I don't know if you saw "The Constant Gardener" but the scenario there wasn't total fiction.

    The answer here isn't to scapegoat an entire country, because China is only one of many countries that has lax regulatory policies. It is to increase import controls and testing of drugs bought over the internet, and target the pharmaceutical companies that import dangerous products. Boycott China and the same cheap corporations will import substandard products from Malaysia or Thailand.

    I don't really understand why "China" becomes the target here.

    "Stare at the monster: remark/ How difficult it is to define just what/ Amounts to monstrosity in that/ Very ordinary appearance." - Ted Hughes

    by MarkC on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:03:57 AM PDT

    •  because their regulatory agancy is a joke (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      anonymousredvest18, esquimaux

      and they need to be held accountable for that lack of regulatory oversight.  We're talking about people's lives and health.

      And by setting an example, other countries might not try the same thing.....

      •  The FDA is a joke (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        MarkC

        "and they need to be held accountable for that lack of regulatory oversight.  We're talking about people's lives and health."

        The problem is not China . . . impure ingredients come from many countries (including the US).  And the US ships plenty of deadly garbage to the rest of the world.

        The problem, and the failure, is a failure to regulate domestic companies . . . a failure to require them to do adequate testing of ingredients (and final product) regardless the source of ingredients to insure that it is safe.

        If quality control and regulatroy standards are so bad in China do not the US manufacturers know that?  Is it not their responsibility then to test for purity before using the ingredient?

        •  Sorry FDA is full of holes, but China's (3+ / 0-)

          is the real joke.  Just look at all the cases where tainted food and baby formula has hurt or killed the Chinese people.

          FDA does catch things, but they are not catching things as well as they have done in the past.  If the FDA was completely useless, we wouldn't have had pet food recalls and we wouldn't be alerted to their once again being issues with diethylene glycol.  However, Bush is doing his best to bring FDA back to the level of ineptness that the Chinese regulatory agency is showing, but continuing to cut the number of labs, cutting their overall budget, and by putting corporate foxes in positions to oversee the agency.

          I do agree that another element in this is that Menu Foods and other manufacturers need to inspect and test their raw materials better.  And the individual companies that used Menu Foods need to test their end product more carefully as well.

          •  sharon (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            MarkC, Deward Hastings

            so you want to mess with china's politics now? while we can't even keep FDA straight?

            seriously... does that even pass the giggle test?

            Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

            by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:57:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  do you see industry putting all the countries of (0+ / 0-)

              origin on their labels?

              I don't given that the components of many foods come from multiple countries.

              How come we can engage in embargos and trade bocks with countries that don't play global politics the way we want to, yet we are unwilling to do so when our food supply is in danger?

              •  all the more reason (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                MarkC

                that the final responsibility falls on American companies to test their product (and its ingredients).  This "blame China" for what is basically our own fault sounds more like fishing for a "someone to blame" talking point than a serious effort to address the issue.

                The regulatory failure was not in China (where the general thrust seems to be that there are none . . . whether or not that is true).  It was here in the US (where that apparently well known lack of regulation in China was ignored).

                If I buy some white powder at a flea market and resell it to you guaranteed as "safe and pure" who is responsible if it isn't?

                •  This isn't about blaming China (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  anonymousredvest18, esquimaux

                  This is about telling China that it needs to shoulder its portion of responsibility if it wants to be a welcome partner in the global marketplace.

                  How is it the US' fault that Chinese businessmen are selling deadly counterfeit products for export and to China's own people?  I don't deny testing should be done, but it becomes very difficult to test for something you don't know could be a contaminant.  While in the case of protein, testing for actual protein instead of nitrogen solves that particular problem, the next contaminant may not be so easy to detect.

                  •  take another look (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    MarkC

                    at your title . . .

                    What it should be about is blaming American companies (the real offenders) for not testing their own products.  Why should Chinese companies be required to do what American companies are not ? ? ?

                    •  It's kinda tough to routinely test for everything (0+ / 0-)

                      under the sun.  You kinda got to know what you are looking for.  In the case of melamine, yeah they should have tested for real protein content and not nitrogen.  But if they only tested protein content, that still wouldn't have have indicated what contaminants were in there...it just would have given them an accurate protein concentration.

                      The fact is, it is criminal to put shit into food on purpose to make a buck....heck it's fucking evil.  And it's criminal of the middlemen to provide false documentation to go with it.

                      This is why we should be buying this stuff domestically or from countries that have a good reputation for providing a quality product.  Not from a country that has a piss-poor safety record and little to no regulation ensuring a safe product.

      •  it's their problem (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        MarkC

        since when we are into messing with china food regulatory bodies and so concern about dead people in Panama?

        This is while we are killing people all around the world every day. Maybe it's genuine concern for humanity, but kind hypocritical don't you think?

        If we can't fix our own inspection bodies because it is being corrupted, suddenly we are now demanding china to do the work instead?

        yeah very logical. like that gonna happen ever.

        Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

        by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:56:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You seriously don't think children could die here (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          anonymousredvest18, esquimaux

          and haven't?  

          The cats are the canary in the coal mine in this case.  It could just as easily be infant formula next....or cough syrup.  It's happened elsewhere (particularly in China), what makes you think it couldn't happen here?

          •  and (0+ / 0-)

            what makes you think if we force china to create their own version of FDA it won't be corrupted as well just like ours?

            There is a point to your suggestion, but ultimately it's not their job to protect our food supply.

            Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

            by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 12:01:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  "Making an example"? (0+ / 0-)

        That's just not how public health works best.

        As I pointed out, if you boycott China, the same cheap corporations will import substandard products from Indonesia, Malaysia or Thailand. The idea that you can use blunt instruments like the boycott of all products from China to solve the problem is the same kind of reasoning that by making Iraq an example you can teach countries not to. . . whatever the hell he was thinking. China is producing these goods, but American companies are buying and importing them. You close off the spigot from China, and all fo a sudden they are going to start testing and using quality control?

        The progressive response has to be to attack not just the immediate source of the current tragedy but to emphasize the structural inadequacies that will lead to the next tragedy, and to solve them through regulation.

        "Stare at the monster: remark/ How difficult it is to define just what/ Amounts to monstrosity in that/ Very ordinary appearance." - Ted Hughes

        by MarkC on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:56:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes...in the long term (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          esquimaux

          But in the short term...close off the spigot.  

          That's what you do when your plumbing is leaking....you don't go redesigning it until you turn the flow of water off first.  Block the goods from China....or block them until extensive testing is done.  Then go about putting in more safeguards....if an when Congress and this Admin provides the funds.

          •  Block all food and meds from China? (0+ / 0-)

            In 2006, China exported $974 billion worth of goods, 21.4% to the US. They would of course retailiate and block imports from the US. Aside from the complete impossibility of an effective boycott, US companies would simply turn to other suppliers.

            In two posts you've ignored the argument that you're talking about boycotting one wholesaler, when there are others out there with just as bad regulatory systems. It is the lack of standards of the retailer's part that will lead them to find another bad wholesaler.

            In your plumbing analogy, turning off the house's water supply would be regulating imports into your home country. Boycotting all Chinese imports would be draining one of the lakes that supplies water to your town. If you want to fix the leak, use the right tool.

            "Stare at the monster: remark/ How difficult it is to define just what/ Amounts to monstrosity in that/ Very ordinary appearance." - Ted Hughes

            by MarkC on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:25:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  When you find the lake is poisoned (4+ / 0-)

              and people are dying, you stop drinking out of the lake.

              •  let's put it this way (0+ / 0-)

                We export massive amount of food stuff to china. We need their business than we do them in term of food stuff. And under WTO rule, if what you propose is enacted, they have the right to retaliate.

                ie. they can shut down the entire mid-west economy one state first through targetted retaliation.

                Use Tor and PGP on the net. (google it)

                by fugue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 11:51:06 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Not all Chinese imports, just food and drug. (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Pink Lady

              Think about this people:  Huge companies like McDonalds, Burger King, Nabisco, etc, watch their bottom lines very closely.  If it's cheaper to import wheat gluten for their products from China, do you think they don't?  The possiblities of catastrophic consquences are staggering.  
              And then there's the baby bibs with lead in them.

              "United we stand, divided we fall"

              by Cassandra77 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:13:42 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  This is exactly my point! (0+ / 0-)

                It is the lack of standards on the part of the country and companies doing the importation. For the reason you say, these companies will simply start importing from Jakarta, and then next set of people dies. Ban food and medicine from Indonesia! For the reason you say, these companies will simply start importing from Bangkok, and then next set of people dies.

                The companies that poisoned the lake are still out there. It is bad public health to simply start drinking out of the next lake -- you've got to find the actual polluters and keep them from affecting the water supply.

                "Stare at the monster: remark/ How difficult it is to define just what/ Amounts to monstrosity in that/ Very ordinary appearance." - Ted Hughes

                by MarkC on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:28:27 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  But in fact ... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Sharon in MD

          There are a lot of very useful reasons to close down on Chinese imports.  Panama and Malaysia aren't nearly as economically powerful in the business of running hometown American businesses and workers out of livelihood.  Panama and Malaysia aren't deliberately using government intervention to support a no-holds-barred export sector that is grinding our economy into the dust.  And incidentally, returning our consumer safety regulations to the bad-old-days before Ralph Nader.

          We need to cut down trade with China anyway.  This is a VERY good reason to do so, and the spinoffs are good: an example to other countries with corrupt bureaucracies and lax regulations to clean up their acts before we ban their imports, too, real and immediate action on outstanding safety issues, and a useful timeout on the economic front.  At some time we're going to cut trade with China way down, either now while we still have some minor manufacturing capacity left, or later when all our factories are shuttered and we've simply run out of money/debt to keep paying for their crap.  There's no good reason why the largest and most productive agricultural sector in the world needs to import cheap food additives from a place where we know that the agricultural practices don't meet our standards for hog food.  The Chinese have treated their peasant population as "straw dogs" since they became a literate society.  This is one element of their ancient culture we don't need to imitate.

  •  Charge an inspection fee so that everything can (8+ / 0-)

    be inspected.  That will make the cost to import more accurate and give home grown products a more honest chance to compete.

    The only people who are happy with their health insurance plan, haven't used it yet.

    by Hens Teeth on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:11:26 AM PDT

  •  Why China? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MarkC

    I know that sounds like a dumb question on the face of it. But do we have any reason to believe that this is a problem that is in any way unique to China?  If so, then fine. Otherwise, it's a reactive, stick-your-finger in the dike approach.  No...it's a reactive, stick-your-finger-in-the-one-hole-we've-discovered-in-the-dike-only-because-it-reached-up-and-bit-us -in-the-ass approach.

    You are right that the FDA needs better funding. They are understaffed, undertrained, and their turnover rate is horrid. But this is nothing unique to Bush's tenure.  When I worked with them under Bill's administration, one of the newbie reviewers used to call me to ask about FDA's own guidelines because "They don't really train us on this stuff," while industry trains its people very well. But of course me helping her was a horrible thing...me, an evil industry person exerting "undue influence" on the FDA. Which is why few of them dare to ask, and remain ignorant.

    What is going to happen is what always happens...activists will scream...er, lobby...to patch up this one hole by recalling all the items affected by this one problem, banning imports from the one country associated with this one problem, and maybe throwing a few more bucks FDA's way. Then "public confidence" will be "restored" (ie, everyone will go back to sleep...especially the activists, since it won't be a sexy issue without any pets or people dying) and then we will wait for the consequences of one of the many currently undetected (because no one is really looking) problems to bit us on the ass.  At which point...rinse and repeat.

    •  It is especially apparent that China has (3+ / 0-)

      developed a particularly bad track record not only with exports, but even with products within their own country.

      http://www.cbsnews.com/...

      http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/...

      http://www.nytimes.com/...

      There are more instances...these I found quickly with a cursory search.  

      •  Ok, but... (0+ / 0-)

        What were you searching on..."China"?

        You will find (if you look) similar problems in any country with little-to-no government regulation of product safety. There was a little-covered story in the early 90s about a couple of star-crossed lovers in Japan who decided to commit suicide together. Being a bit too modern for a sword to the gut, they split an entire bottle of sleeping pills.  When they woke up a few hours later, they decided they should ask for their money back. Seriously...they actually complained to the pharmacy, which is how the story got out.

        We can't fix other countries' problems, as we see in Iraq. And we really aren't in a position to stop importing goods from all of these countries. We can only put procedures in place to assure the quality of the products we import, regardless of their point of origin. And then we need to actually follow those procedures. But then there will be a lot of screaming and yelling about too much government regulation and interference in consumers' freedom of choice.

  •  I humbly disagree (0+ / 0-)

    Most of my reasons are technical and managerial, not political.

    The two options on offer: inspection and embargo are extremely blunt instruments - for two reasons:

    • the first won't work
    • the second could trigger a trade war

    The problem of supplier quality for overseas goods is not a new one. It has been a key problem in world trade for centuries at least. The world manufacturing and distribution community have developed a number of quite workable systems to solve these problems - in food and virtually all other goods.

    As a relatively new manufacturing powerhouse, many firms in China (along with many other developing countries) have not yet installed the quality management systems that we take for granted in the developed world. These systems are sufficiently well defined that there are nationally and internationally agreed-upon standards that spell them out quite thoroughly. For example:

    • FDA regulations - US only, but anyone could elect to follow them
    • HACCP - A system to identify and prevent potential points of failures in food processing operations - its a US invention, but gaining traction in many other countries, including China
    • ISO 9000 - Internationally accepted, general purpose, quality management system standard that would be beneficial for food production and food safety - China is aggressively promoting compliance, but there are questions about the consistency of application

    As best I can gather, China has started to install a these systems in their exporting firms, but the coverage is still very spotty and auditing and compliance oversight are still a work in progress. That situation will, as a matter of physical feasibility, persist a number of years into the future.

    An intermediate (and IMHO a far more feasible approach) would be to use the 'threat' of bans to push China to implement these systems far more aggressively and with more transparent international visibility into their implementation standards.

    Since these standards are gaining support internationally anyway, pressuring China to implement them more aggressively will:

    • attract broad support from the international community
    • be technically difficult for China to argue against
    • bring Chinese production management methods closer to ours in several important ways
    • offer a promise of better food quality at a more reasonable cost than any of the alternative mechanisms.

    -2.38 -4.87: Maturity - Doing what you know is right even though you were told to do it.

    by grapes on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:07:50 AM PDT

    •  That's why I'm saying block the goods (3+ / 0-)

      to pressure China to get a handle on their problem.  Otherwise they will continue with the status quo of creating appropriate regulations nor enforcing such regulations.  I'm not suggesting doing this forever...I'm suggesting doing this in the meantime until they deal with the issue at hand.

      •  er ...rather not creating (0+ / 0-)

        appropriate regs. ahh...typos.

      •  It needs to be a bit more careful than that. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Sharon in MD

        There are already lots of companies in China that are meeting these standards (or at least paying decent lipservice). I suspect (I'm have no real proof one way or the other) that the problem lies with the huge influx of new businesses that are clueless and/or incompetent and/or crooked. These always spring up when there is a huge surge in business activity.

        A better approach would be to make a big deal about the standards as both a carrot and a stick. Make entry into the US progressively more difficult for shipments from any developing country - in the following order:

        • Easiest: ISO 9000 & HACCP with audit opinion from internationally-recognized certification body
        • Easier: ISO 9000 & HACCP with audit opinion from that country's certification body
        • Reasonable: ISO 9000 or HACCP with audit opinion from that country's certification body
        • Harder: American customer's affidavit of satisfactory direct audit of supplier's system
        • Anything else: On-receipt scientific sampling, inspection and testing.

        Or something similar

        That would put the monkey back where it belongs - on the technical and managerial quality of the individual foreign suppliers. It would avoid making this a US vs another nation issue - or at least reduce its potency as a wedge issue.

        -2.38 -4.87: Maturity - Doing what you know is right even though you were told to do it.

        by grapes on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:36:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Standards are great (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Hens Teeth

          We just need to be sure we have an agency that is adequately staffed and funded to ensure that those standards are being followed and documented properly. :)

          •  More than an agency, we need the 'system' (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Sharon in MD

            Individual, national agencies are becoming less and less important in the global supply issue.

            Their place is being taken by an international system of standards, auditing, certification, and accreditation. The most important example is the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). ISO acts as the world's umbrella library of standards for all sorts of things. Any standard published by this body is effectively accepted by nearly 150 countries worldwide.

            There are a number of technical, financial and managerial reasons why, IMO, this trend will continue and grow over the coming decades:

            • It is cheaper
            • It is technically sound
            • It is potentially better and safer
            • It is less political

            US policy should not try to buck this trend because, IMHO, that would doom US policy to failure. It would cost us a fortune, put us out of step with Europe and Japan, etc. And it would probably fail on technical grounds. Instead, American policy-makers should push to strengthen, accelerate, and sharpen the move to compliance with those global standards that have already been published.  

            Since most, if not all, of our own companies already comply or are very close to complying in practice, the effort we would have to make is likely to be a lot less than that required of companies in the developing world - and that's as it should be.

            -2.38 -4.87: Maturity - Doing what you know is right even though you were told to do it.

            by grapes on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:08:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  just as a reminder (4+ / 0-)

    people forget that probably the most common use for ethylene glycol is in your cars antifreeze.

    Antifreeze is sweet, tastes kind of good and is very deadly.

    If you work on your own car be sure to properly dispose of the waste antifreeze.

    If you see a leak of greenish fluid from your car be sure to clean the spill as soon as possible preferably with a absorbant like the old fashioned clay cat litter,      

    After using the absorbant be sure to wash down the area with water and sweep any puddles away

    Do not allow coolant leaks to continue, get to your garage as soon as possible. Not only might you save yourself a lot of money by repairing the problem before it becomes a major situation, you will save your own and possibly others pets and wild animals from an ugly painful death.

  •  I mostly agree with Sharon (4+ / 0-)

    As a matter of FAIR trade not free trade:

    Open markets should apply only between countries that

     - have decent regulatory appratus in place, which despite all its faults the U.S. does (but needs much re-improvement after ~20 yrs of deruglatory zealotary) and China does not. Not just product safety and efficacy, but also environmental regulation.

    • have free labor, right to organize, locally appropriate minimum wage, etc. Again U.S. not as good as we would like it. But still incomparably better than China.

    and the rest of the FAIR trade not free trade argument.

    See also:

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    Peace and health

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