Buying a car for these conditions

Looking for any input or suggestions on economical cars usable in California. my 1996 mini van casts almost $60 a fill-up, and barely eaks out 17-20 mpg.

I really wish i could use mass trasit but I am on a 'reverse' commute of 45 miles each way so cycling is out too, and buses going my way are few and over crowded. We may in a few years have a single track railroad, but it will be the same situation, everyone headed south has options, head north for work and you just get a blank stare from the trainsit companies.

I am looking at Toyota's new Yaris model with up to 41mpg highway. I have test driven one and, well it is a 4 banger so of course it is not a muscle car, but it seemed to handel real well and has a nice small turn radius.

Anyone have any other good suggestions? What would you reccomend to your kid(s)? What about emmisions and long term maintenence (of course the Yaris is a new model, so I would be taking a chance on that). I can't spend 40-60,000 on a car so that enters into the equation too. No Beemers or Jags :)

Also to be considered is the cost and effort needed to convert to whatever bio-fuel or other type fuel may become available.

So hey, here is everyones chance to rag on your least favorite car, and maybe we can all learn something from it. So if you have converted cars, or have had it done give us your 'war story' about it. if you have purchased a lemon that was supposed to be the next greatest thing, would love to hear that too!

•  The Corolla also get 40+ mpg,

  It is roomier than the Yaris and still inexpensive. The Prius is a good choice if you can afford it (I have one). You give up nothing in terms of power or room. It also has much lower emissions than the other two.

  by davewill on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:36:57 PM PDT

•  If you don't have your heart set on a hybrid

  the Jetta's a great car for its price; my '01 model still gets 30mpg, and it's big enough to accomodate a family so it's better suited to a former minivan driver than most small/economy/hybrid cars. VWs are known for their long-term reliability, and emissions are better than average for a traditional car.

  If you're interested in transitioning to bio-fuel, I believe the diesel version of the VW Golf can run on biodiesel; I don't know if they still make diesel Golfs, but if they do, it's a good car too and even more efficient than the Jetta.

  by kyril on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:39:15 PM PDT

  •  It's funny you say that

    VWs are known for their long-term reliability

    I was very close to buying a new Jetta a couple of years ago but passed because of the really poor repair history reported by Consumer Reports.  I settled on a used Honda instead.

    by Ernest T Bass on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:50:39 PM PDT

    •  VW Quality

      Ain't what is used to be.  Most US market VWs are assembled in Mexico, not Germany.

      by HarveyMilk on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:20:51 PM PDT

    •  Smart choice

      be sure to keep fresh belts and hoses on the car as overheating is about the only thing that can kill a Honda.

      Also don't forget the timing belt. Most of the Honda's have interferance engines which means simply that if the timing belt breaks you're looking at a valve job minimum and possibly a engine.

      by buddabelly on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:03:09 PM PDT

  •  The diesel VW's are extremely maintenance

    intensive. Timing belt at 40k when most cars are at the 90 to 105k level. Also they have real problems with their accessories, power window problems door lock problems and the like. They get good milage but when you add in the repair costs not a good value usually.

    by buddabelly on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:25:01 PM PDT

    •  Umm

      That must be a very old model.  The current timing belt change interval is 100K.  The engine on the diesels are pretty much bombproof, but the electrical system -- especially for accessories -- definitely has issues.

      by alefnot on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:38:50 PM PDT

      •  I have been disabled for a couple of years

        and the last VW diesel was prob a couple of years before that so yeah probably a '99 or so. Glad to hear they finally solved that problem. The funny part was as I recall it wasn't due to breakage but belt stretch, and due to the need for specialized tools about the only place that could do a t-belt back then was at the dealership.

        by buddabelly on Tue May 08, 2007 at 12:02:55 PM PDT

•  I believe there are some Gray Market Euro Diesels

  You might want to look into that (maybe some Japanese ones too).
  Then again, you could get a 250cc motor-cycle, but who wants to be an organ donor.

  by LunkHead on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:43:33 PM PDT

  •  Grey market cars can be a repair nightmare

    finding the correct parts and the additional labor costs incurred will quite often eat up any savings.

    by buddabelly on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:44:29 PM PDT

•  Honda Civic, Toyota Prius also sip gas.

  Too bad you don't have about 100K, then I'd say the Tesla roadster all the way!

  by Indecent on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:51:01 PM PDT

  •  yeah that would be cool :)

    by tony the American Mutt on Mon May 07, 2007 at 07:49:20 PM PDT

•  I'd go with the Escape hybrid

  UAW made, gets 33 MPG, has some cargo space.  Reasonably priced.  Ticks all my boxes.

  by Trapper John on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:54:20 PM PDT

  •  Really?

    33 mpg has always seemed way too low. I've been giving Ford a hard time about making hybrids, but not having a single 40+ mpg car.

    by davewill on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:03:25 PM PDT

    •  Eh

      33 isn't super-low, but it's a bigger vehicle than most fuel efficient options, and that is worth something.  Bigger isn't necessarily better, but it can be useful.  

      Besides, the Escape is the only UAW/CAW-made hybrid.  I know that doesn't matter to a lot of people.  For me, it's non-negotiable.

      by Trapper John on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:06:15 PM PDT

      •  I don't think it really gets 33...

        by Wilberforce on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:54:43 PM PDT

•  We just passed 100k troublefree miles

  in our Echo, which is exactly the same drivetrain as the Yaris, 108 hp, variable valve train (economy at low rpms, hp at high rpms) 2100 lbs (2300 for the Yaris).

  We are running consistently 30+ mpg city (a lot of hills) and 37+ on trips to Yosemite (65+mph freeway, 55 up hills using kickdown switch). We aren't the least interested in the thrill of acceleration.

  The car handles well (the Yaris much better, wider stance). Seats four comfortably due to incredible human engineering, has huge trunk, sound system.

  Due to light weight, is a bit road noisy.

  But at the gas pump, a FULL tank is 12 gallons, which is now $42 and good for about 400 miles.

  Toyota designed this engine in Japan some 15 years ago. It is very reliable (1 small defect in throttle position sensor, fixed free).

  The whole car reeks of quality.

  A 450 cc motorcycle (the larger Honda Rebels) are stone cold reliable, freeway no problem.

  I've drive a quarter million motorcycle miles. You just have to drive scared, but it's more fun that way anyhow. And they are fun to accelerate. If you are poor, it's the way to go. Driving for mileage  at <60mph you can consistently see 60+ mpg.</p>

  by ormondotvos on Mon May 07, 2007 at 03:55:38 PM PDT

  •  cheapest and best solution

    1. Motorcycle

    2. Honda civic that gets 48 MPG (highway).  The fuel economy has actually gotten worse since the early 1990s.  If you can find one of these in good condition under 100K, it's the bomb.    

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/...

    by markymarx on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:09:00 PM PDT

    •  The early Civic hf was a great car.

      by buddabelly on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:46:02 PM PDT

      •  Yes, but, when they get that old you start

        having deteriorating rubber and plastic problems: brake hoses, gas lines, o-rings, carb floats and parts.

        And a lot of those are fierce diagnostic problems, also.

        The new stuff is worth it.

        It depends on your finances. The more you spend initially, the lower it pushes the maintenance.

        Maintenance can kill your gas mileage, as well as making you an unreliable employee.

        I'd say the sweet spot is about $3,000 and about 1998, Corolla, Civic, Tercel, Echo. Less than 100k, no rust in engine and undercarriage (beach cars suck).

        Watch the new posts on Craigslist.

        by ormondotvos on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:18:03 PM PDT

        •  probably right although

          The gas mileage on everything but the hybrids has basically gotten worse.  

          by markymarx on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:30:33 PM PDT

        •  Beach and midwest -eastern cars

          What a pain in the ass. I always loved trying to explain to the customer that due to the rust the job might cost twice as much depending on what broke on dis-assembly.

          One thing very few people do that would save them a ton of headaches and hassles is to go through and replace belts and cooling system hoses when they buy the car and then every 4 years thereafter no matter what.

           Since I tore up my back the last time its pretty hard but I still manage to do all my own work. If I didn't I couldn't afford to drive.

          Also as you know people would be so much better off if they treated their technician like their doctor. Pick one and stay with them. Don't shop hop, it really won't save money in long run.  

           At least the new vehicles 95 and up are easier to diagnose than than the crap built in the 80's.  I don't think the Ford 5.0 CFI nightmares will ever go away.  

                           

          by buddabelly on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:38:43 PM PDT

•  The problem with hybrids

  is that, depending on your driving pattern, you may not get the expected mileage boost.  It is my understanding that you can get VERY good mileage around town with stop/go driving with a hybrid.  But if you are commuting at highway speeds long distances (which seems to be what you describe), then you may do better with a good mileage IC engine vehicle.  Of course, I'd love to be mistaken about this.

  HAD ENOUGH?

  Tis a fearful thing to love that what death may touch or time may change.

  by walkingdeer on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:03:00 PM PDT

  •  I think you are...

    I have a Prius. I get 40 mpg around town. I have a very, very short commute, I think I could get 42 or so if the commute were longer. 45-50 mpg on long highway trips. The best of the standard cars available now get around 40-42 highway, 38 or so in city driving.

    by davewill on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:07:03 PM PDT

    •  Second I think you are

      We have a Prius too and that sounds about right. We have a very short commute and live in a hilly area, so during the week we get around 43-45 mpg. It will go down a little now that it is getting warm and we will be running the air conditioner more.

      We easily get in the high 50's for highway driving. We can practically coast down to some lower-lying regions.

      Also, we didn't pay an arm and a leg. The only option we got was side curtain airbags. Coupled with the tax credit, we made out like bandits.  ;  )

      by marci in ca on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:56:37 PM PDT

•  depends on nature of your driving

  most of my 50 miles roundtrip is on limited access roads, where usually because of when I drive traffic is not totally backed up.   I drive a Hoda Civic 5-speed hybrid, and in warmer weather, since I rarely use the A/C, I average over 60 mpg roundtrip - of course, I coast on any downhill, and I don't speed. My overall mileage, after 41,000 miles of driving over a couple of years, is about 53 MPG.  about 60% of my mileage is my driving to and from school.   About 1/3 of the rest is highway driving, but sometimes I am travelling a bit faster on those longer trips, so my mpg is lower.

  In stop and go traffic the Prius is a better buy.

  by teacherken on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:19:23 PM PDT

•  I recommend

  either a Toyota Corolla or Ponitac Vibe, both made by UAW labor at the NUMMI plant in California.

  Also very nice, but a bit more pricey, is the Mazda 6, built by UAW labor at the AutoAlliance Plant in Michigan.

  by HarveyMilk on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:20:05 PM PDT

•  VW Golf TDI

  We have a 2003 VW Golf TDI that we love.  We get low 40s mpg on the highway and upper 30s in the city.  No conversion necessary.  We've used B100 for the most part since we bought the car in 2003.  Occassionally in the winter we use B80 or B20 to help prevent gelling.  And there have been about a handful of times that we have needed to put dirty diesel in because of poor planning and needing fuel but not being near a biodiesel station.

  We have a manual, and it is a fun, zippy car to drive.   I highly recommend the vehicle.

  by june31 on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:26:19 PM PDT

•  Toyota Hybrid

  Get a Prius if you don't need much size, and a Camry Hybrid if you need/want something bigger.

  I have a Camry Hybrid since last August and it is great. Mileage is about 36 mpg, mainly highway. Unlike many other makes of hybrids, Toyota uses the technology to improve mileage, not just provide more horsepower (I think this is what the Accord hybrid does, and others).

  Also, I think Toyota has a good track record for hybrid technology, very reliable.

  by mndan on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:33:18 PM PDT

  •  Prius is smaller?

    The Prius is pretty much the same size as the Camry, plus the extra utility of the hatchback.

    Compare

    by davewill on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:26:03 PM PDT

•  try the Scion

  made by toyota. Several models at around $15,000, and good mileage. Several in my neighborhood, and haven't heard any complaints, only praise about them. I like the Xb because it has the most storage space.

  by sd4david on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:33:28 PM PDT

•  As a auto tech and service manager

  Honda or Toyota. Both will get good fuel economy with very low lifetime repair costs.

  The Civic is a fantastic little car that is peppy fun to drive and will get great milage.

  Also you can usually safely buy a used Honda or Toyota and still be assured of a reliable car.

   If you go used, be sure to take the car, before you purchase it, to your mechanic and spend the money to have it thoroughly checked out.

  Trust me it will save you money in the long run by knowing what you are up against.

   Also the inspection will give you a bargining chip on the purchase price as you can point out the problems and get a price reduction to compensate.

   I also rec. if you go used, stay away from dealerships. Try to purchase private party if you can this will also save you money.

   Search the local papers at any retirement communities around where you live like Leisure World.

   Quite often you can pick up a really nice, low milage, well maintained car, for a fraction of the price of anywhere else as many people must sell their cars as they lose the ability to drive.

  Also in these areas you will often find cars being sold by the kid after their parent has passed away. Most of the time in this case they are a very motivated seller as they just want it out of their hair.

   Plus a car owned by an older person, in general, won't have been as abused as a car owned by a teenager

  by buddabelly on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:42:10 PM PDT

•  I faced this same decision last year

  And looked at how much energy and money I would save with different options. I lived 45 miles from downtown too, and decided to choose the option that saved the most energy: I moved much closer to town. The kids are a lot happier now and so am I.

  by pdt on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:46:48 PM PDT

  •  LOL one option

    but I really like where I am, and if I do move later i will still have a decent car I hope :)

    by tony the American Mutt on Mon May 07, 2007 at 07:53:08 PM PDT

•  Mini Cooper

  40 mpg & basically a small BMW.

  by Wilberforce on Mon May 07, 2007 at 04:49:51 PM PDT

•  What sort?

  my 1996 mini van casts almost $60 a fill-up, and barely eaks out 17-20 mpg.

  My '96 Dodge gets 30 mph hiway. And its great for signs...

  

  by Roger Fox on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:10:40 PM PDT

•  What about hybrids?

  I'm surprised you're not looking at, say, a Prius.  I think they're comparable in price to Corollas (give or take).

  by Mehitabel9 on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:20:14 PM PDT

•  Honda Fit?

  For a new car, check out the stylish new Honda Fit sportswagon. Honda quality, under $14k. 38 mpg.

  Or... you may want to get a used Civic, Corolla, etc for now, and wait for the plug-in hybrids to hit the market in a couple of years. ... especially if you can convince your employer to let you plug it in at work!

  by EdinPHX on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:22:33 PM PDT

•  Prius, Corolla, Civic......

  That about covers it I think.

  by keepinon on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:49:38 PM PDT

•  We have a Corolla and a Prius

  The Corolla cost a lot less, and still gets around 38 mpg. The Prius is a little larger, and gets 45-50 mpg.

  Both are great cars. My Corolla is 7 yrs old, and has never had problems (barring the dump truck that hit me.) Only had the Prius a year, so don't know about that yet, although we've driven various model Toyotas for over 20 years and never had a lemon from them.

  We don't work for 'em, just love 'em.

  by grayday101 on Mon May 07, 2007 at 05:57:46 PM PDT

•  Price range?

  Less than 20K I'd get a Fit.  20-30K I'd get a Prius.  If you can wait a year and have access to biodiesel, consider a VW TDI.

  by alefnot on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:48:58 PM PDT