Daily Kos

Military change in the wind... now i'm REALLY worried!

Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:28:18 PM PDT

today, one of my adopteds in the air force called me.  he "recertified" in weapons training after slipping through the paperwork for several years.  the air force recerts every 2 years - he made it to five before being sent out to spend the day doing weapons handling.

i jokingly asked if he was being deployed - for the moment he is safe because of his field.  he DID tell me something that is extremely worrisome - and should have everyone who knows military folk deeply concerned.

come with me to see where we are headed - and why you should talk your kids out of joining the air force and the navy!

the air force has changed it's program for basic training.

in the years gone by, the joke was that you learned to fold your shirts into PERFECT FLAT squares!  it HAD to pass the wrinkle free test! since the air force and navy traditionally were forces that did not serve as ground troops - and the basic training never required extensive weapons handling or ground combat training.  yes, the troops were required basic physical fitness, running, etc., but the emphasis was not on hard ground combat.

now the air force is requirng intensive combat training for ALL its new recruits.  i am seriously betting the navy also has adapted its basic training programs as well.

why?

the simplest answer is that we are running out of foot soldiers.  the army and marines are both stressed and stretched.  recruiting is down and is opening the doors to standards never before accepted.  so, where does the defense department make up the slack in an all volunteer force?

look to the air force and navy!  already, both airmen and seamen are being deployed to iraq as "support services" for the army.  they drive trucks, they perform on the ground operations.  they get killed.  just like the soldiers and marines.

if we extend this scenario out another year or so, what happens when we run OUT of army, marines, guard, airmen and women, and sailors?

there is only one alternative left if the recruiting numbers don't make up for those who ARE leaving - in droves.  that, my friends, is the draft.  three years ago, another army friend who worked in personnel said that the military was proceeding even then at full speed to get ready for the draft.  did they see it even then?  is it inevitable?  are we too late to repair this broken system?

no matter how unpopular, how distasteful - the hard core reality is that we are running out of fighting forces - we are using up our reserves and we are in serious danger of being a country without a military force in the very near future.

the recent stories of recruiters who lie (my friend assures me that ALL recruiters lie) are strong deterrent to those who are beginning to see the heavy toll on our military members and their families.  people see the lies - the promises unkept.  people are learning again not to TRUST the government regarding the military - so who will join?  not the numbers needed to sustain a defensive force in this nation!

another one of my adopteds (also air force) tells of a sgt who left at the end of his commitment and within six months, was on the ground in iraq in the ARMY!  he was called back and placed "where needed".

sadly, another legacy of george w. bush is a severly broken military, broken troops, and a nation unprotected.

kansas:  case in point:  tornado:  no national guard equipment to dig out the ruins of a little town in middle america.

things are only going to get worse... unless we do something.

finally, i am clamboring aboard the impeachment wagon.... if there is any room left.  we are running out of time.  it may already be too late to save our broken nation.  

i hope not. i truly hope not.

Poll

do you feel a draft on the wind?

11%14 votes
14%18 votes
9%12 votes
19%24 votes
12%15 votes
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| 122 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: air force, military (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 77 comments

  •  I would put nothing past these people (18+ / 0-)

    But, that having been said, I am still not of the opinion they'll push for a draft. My sense is they'll try to wring more soldiers out of the manpower they currently have, continue stop-loss rules and forced extensions of tours and commitments, things like that. Next up will be various kinds of new incentives to recruit people - I keep expecting the US military to begin recruiting abroad and dangle the promise of a green card for the soldier and his family plus a signing bonus, a contemporary echo of the way most previous empires found troops.

    A draft could happen, but I am not yet seeing the political support for it, in either party. That could turn on a dime of course, but right now it seems a remote possibility.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
    Neither is California High Speed Rail

    by eugene on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:22:42 PM PDT

    •  I agree. (12+ / 0-)

      I believe that for now, a draft is the last thing the republicans want.  Too close to owning up to the fact that they are trying to foster continual war.  They are also not stupid...they realize that the minute a draft is in place, the public will be very stringent in its support of military use of force for any reason.

    •  Privitization of Privates. (13+ / 0-)

      Hired guns and "Guest" soldiers.  Let the market drive the war machine.  Bush and his souless philosophy must end.

      We can have the Constitution or we can have Bush but, we can't have both.

      by Friend of the court on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:28:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i don't think it'll be that obvious (11+ / 0-)

        But I can guarandamntee you that whatever "support services" being done in offices/bases around the world that are currently being done by active duty soldiers will be done by hired contractors, and the "support service" type people will be trading in their staplers and pencils for sidearms and body armor (if they're lucky).

        •  that is my greatest fear for my friends. (11+ / 0-)

          both are linguists - fairly critical fields - but that said, if the military runs out of guns - they will decide that they can "train more" down the road.

          what happens when we run out of soldiers?  who will be left to fight?

          •  my greatest fear too (8+ / 0-)

            honestly, I don't think we'll ever "run out of soldiers" but I think the closer we get to that point, the more shady things are going to be.  sure, there's already "private security firms" doing military work, but if we get to a point where the military is severely depleted, I think you'll see a couple of things, in this order.

            1. way more money being spent on recruitment...ridiculous amounts, not only in advertising but in enlistment bonuses, etc.
            1. eventually, the government will see the cost per recruit will be too high, and they'll even start contracting recruitment out.  paying private firms to do the recruiting and such, with government bonuses paid to firms who a) recruit the most b) recruit the best and c) retain the most/best.

            The whole goal of our military excursion in Iraq and everything since has been to toss massive amounts of money into the private sector benefactors who are friends and supporters of this administration.  Eventually (and I'd be surprised if I'm the first to have this idea) they'll find a way to make money off of military recruiting.

          •  Dear Edrie, (8+ / 0-)

            My SSG son ran an Afghani National Army Depot near Kabul from July 2005-July 2006.  He had several Navy swabbies assigned to him with no mechanical training.  It accounted for the number of boots on the ground and was frustrating for all.  It is like Bushco is still playing with all of their "little plastic" military guys from childhood and throwing them in a pile.  Our experienced "grunts" are waiting (extending one year at a time, no bonuses) or quitting.  They expect our Congress to do their oversight job of exposing and removing the Bushco Cabal from office for their massive War Profiteering and their War Crimes that they committed in Afghanistan and Iraq. (including Cheneys secret business deals with Pakistan) Our "grunts" expect our Congress to do their GOD DAMNED job instead of threatening to do it!  love, mjd

            Catholic, white woman over 50 for OBAMA!! (endorsed 12/06)

            by mjd in florida on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:58:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  i can't imagine them placing (7+ / 0-)

            linguists in combat duties.

            Linguists are in short supply, require lengthy and difficult training, and tend to be specialized for a certain type of brains that does not tend to go along with the extraordinary physical stamina needed to be engaged in combat in a place where the temperature is 115 in the shade.

            Linguists could be taken out of other geographic areas and moved to Iraq, and then moved closer to the front in other intel assignments, all of which are increasing degrees of risk.  

            ---

            As for the draft:  Bush will leave the military completely broken, so that the task of calling up a draft falls to the Democratic president who we'lll all be electing next year.  

            The thing that most infuriates me about the present Regime is what it has done to our military and intel capabilities.  They couldn't have done worse if they were actively and deliberately working for the enemy.  

            If there is any way to make them all serve time behind bars, we should be pursuing it ferociously: now, next year, and even after these bastards are out of office.  

            •  i agree with you about jail time - they are (6+ / 0-)

              the true traitors to this nation and the american soldiers and population!

              as for sending linguists - the one who ended up in the army was "silly" enough not to reenlist - so he was fresh meat for the grinder.

              still, with this group - it is the numbers game - look at who is serving - the number of reservists who are older - not fit, the younger injured who cannot wear body armor and are still sent back - the inexperienced and untrained from other branches in areas that are outside their training... this is NOT about "winning" this "war" - it is about sustaining it long enough to rake in the ungodly profits for the contract companies.

              this is a numbers game - much like viet nam was in the end.  it is all in the numbers - not the humanity, skill or capability.  soldiers are expendable.  there are more where they came from - and if you can keep filling the slots - you never have to say you're sorry (wrong).

            •  Believe it. It's happening. (4+ / 0-)

              I know several linguists who have been in, or are going to, Iraq. These are the top 1% in amount and cost of training in the military! Many of them scored so high on the military entrance exams that they are not allowed to join as simply riflemen. And today they're valued as nothing more than:
              one (1) pair of boots with one (1) M-16 rifle, expendable

              •  this is where we, on the outside, need to start (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                fallina7

                hammering our representatives about the waste in "money" - since that is all many of them seem to understand!

                the vulnerability of the republicans lies in the pocketbook - if we make the population know that they are paying massive amounts to train people to protect us and then those people are being thrown away to keep bush looking "good" - then 2009 will be a rude awakening for ALL republicans running for office!

                •  Excellent point. (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  edrie

                  It's a waste of money and an insanely stupid waste of resources.

                  My nephew is in the Naval Reserve and is currently serving in Iraq.  His years of training on aircraft carriers won't be of much value in the desert.  

        •  I do (10+ / 0-)

          They've managed to pretty much conceal the fact that 10% of our forces in Iraq are contractors     [mercenaries], and no one can get a true figure of how many of them have been killed.

          There's money to be made, and I don't see any reaon why they won't continue to expand the privatization.

          Except, of course, if Congress can actually grab hold of the purse strings and get the occupation costs into the regular budget, subject to oversight.

    •  i don't think the republicans will EVER (8+ / 0-)

      come out of their bubble to admit that the military is broken - all is wonderful - rosy - perfect (except we're running out of troops, ammunitions, equipment, money).

      this isn't as much a ponder about who will ask for a draft but IT the congress will have to restore it to repair the broken state of military affairs.

      what happens when young men and women STOP joining the air force and navy (since those were fairly "safe" forces to join to get that education and training.)

      is reality going to set in for all of this nation that to have a military, it has to COME from somewhere?

      my guess is that it will happen after the destroyer finally rides out of town on that rail covered in feathers.  the nation will be forced to accept tough choices (pointed out by the responsibility party rather than the ideological muckups).

      i am thinking that it will be angrily agreed to for a limited basis ONLY after the air force and navy are also depleted and we no longer have massive amounts of money to "entice" new recruits.

      or, another possibility is a massive depression  will force many impoverished americans into the military for "secure" jobs (think south korean military enrollment - at least they get food!).

      bad times are coming and they will hit about jan 21, 2009.  this is planned - the raping and pillaging of america by the greedy is at a frenzy right now - but it can't be sustained - then the collapse and we get left to try to pick up the pieces.

  •  I'm not feeling a draft. (11+ / 0-)

    But I'm not really feeling the occupation, either. These thieves have a year left before they have to start packing. And right now, they're doing the best to load the loot into the van.

    Why are nuclear weapons always on the table, while impeachment is never on the table?

    ...i realize now / you were not to be blamed, my love / you didn't choose your name, my love...

    by Diaries on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:26:00 PM PDT

    •  i am HOPING that impeachment is waiting on the (5+ / 0-)

      buffet table -- ready to be served as a main course when investigations are done.

      until now, we don't have (to quote tenet) a "slam dunk" for impeachment... but i think it is coming - soon.  the hearings keep uncovering more stench and more foul odors - eventually, we'll get to the diseased meat of the issue.

      then, the rest of the nation will be solidly on board!

      if you look now at the polls, more and more americans are demanding impeachment - making it all the more easy for congress to comply.

      time - it takes time - and we have that on our side - i hope!

    •  Two simple solutions: (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      edrie

      First, end the war.

      Second, assuming the war continues, draft every Blackwater mercinary into the service of the US Army.

      If these warmonger types want to play soldier, let's arrange for them to do it legitimately.

      Barack Obama -- The President we were promised as kids!

      by Jimdotz on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:19:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Their goal is to break the military....and.... (20+ / 0-)

    the entire government...

    Remember Grover Norquist's comment about shrinking government to the size you can drown it in the bathtub?

    It's all part of the plan. These things we keep scratching our heads about are not fuckups. They are by design.

    Believe it.  The so-called neo-cons came in with a belief to destroy "the government" - and they are succeeding.  Right under everyone's noses.

    DOJ is broken.
    The Treasurey is broken.
    FEMA is broken.
    FDA is broken.
    FCC is broken.
    EPA is broken.
    OSHA is broken.
    Medicare is broken.
    The VA is broken.
    The INS is broken.
    The CIA is broken.
    The FBI is broken.
    The schools will soon be broken...(NCLB)
    THE MILITARY WILL SOON BE BROKEN...
    (No problem - Halliburton/Blackwater to the rescue!)

    THEY. KNOW. EXACTLY. WHAT. THEY'RE. DOING.

    Next time I tell you someone from Texas should NOT be president of the United States, please pay attention. In Memory of Molly Ivins, 1944-2007

    by truebeliever on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:27:45 PM PDT

  •  My husband got grabbed (6+ / 0-)

    when he was in Saudi in 93 for a misionw ith the Marines (the sort that Never Officially Happened).  He had to re-qual on weapons, and was required to keep his cert up because of it.  Seems he was able to do things with radios the Marines weren't.  What he got out of it was a case of PTSD.

    Sailors normally DON'T handle weapons--at least, not sidearms or rifles--unless they are in security.   But the idea that they aren't in harm's way  is kinda lame.  ANY TIME a Navy ship leaves port, it is considered in a state of war readiness.  They handle missiles and bombs instead of guns and rifles. And on every deployment on a carrier, lives are lost--people die in accidents or take their own lives.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:40:25 PM PDT

    •  sailors are in a different kind of "harm's way" - (6+ / 0-)

      one that takes a totally different mindset, imho.

      on the ship, if you are attacked and you lose - you definitely die (unless you are a VERY good swimmer!)

      there is a different training, mental conditioning, skill set required for this type of weaponry and fighting.

      putting sailors on land in a different skillset is as efficient as putting a footsoldier manning a torpedo on a submarine!  there is a reason people are in different services - different needs, different skillsets.

      it is appalling that the military is now mixing the multiple disciplines without proper cross training.  it puts ALL involved at greater risk and diminishes ALL branches of service!

      those who think that soldiers can be all things to all services end up with soldiers who cannot function well in any of them!  there is a reason that forces are divided into different groups - but this administration is so busy screwing up they don't care any longer.  it is all about the body count.  damn.  that reminds me of viet nam.  

      we are back to the days of old - very old - our troops are now looked at as simply cannon fodder, not the elite best trained military force in the world!

      damn george bush and all who came with him!

      •  oh, no slight meant to navy - my cousin was navy (4+ / 0-)

        for many years.  

      •  My point isthat while the skillset (5+ / 0-)

        differs, sailors Do face danger on a  daily basis (especially if they work the flightdeck of a carrier; it takes balls to duck down while a jet wing is an inch from your head).

        ALso Navy medics volunteer for duty with the Marines.

        The BIG problem here is that they are being sent over with only a few weeks of training, and none with their unit.  THAT puts them at a huge disadvantage. We had one twit here who thought driving supply trucks in Iraq wasn't dangerous--I think he also believes that there really is a Clark Kent and a Peter Parker; his grasp of reality sounded pretty tenuous..

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Mon May 07, 2007 at 09:05:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i used to be in the coast guard auxilliary - (5+ / 0-)

          loved it - and the demands on the civilian side were also challenging.

          the navy is one amazing force - they have the task of managing a "vehicle" that takes ten miles to stop (or more) - keeping something underwater habitable without going totally claustrophobic - handling big guns that make everything else look like toys - and, as you say, "catching" aircraft and catapulting them off - with absolutely NO room for error.  the work is as dangerous as the other branches.

          my point was more that each branch requires different ttraining and mindset to handle different types of tasks - cross - pollinating them weakens the end result for all.

          i'd hate to see foot soldiers trying to dock a carrier into port - or to trap an aircraft without being a head shorter.  

          the strategy and knowledge of the foot soldier in hand to hand combat is a different skillset than the sailor is used to... he/she would have trouble surviving door to door combat as wood the other have trouble surviving in the aqua setting.

          the real issue is that the persons in charge of our military now are NOT military savy and are not listening to the chiefs of staff.  the "civilians" in charge are destroying our military - to the peril of our troops.

  •  The GOP is already about to crack in a couple (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kineticdissent, theran, edrie, greenearth

    months.

    There's no way in hell they would try to sell a draft, and there is no way in hell that the Dem leadership would let Murtha & Rangel get the Dems to start a draft.  

    "There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by duha on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:47:28 PM PDT

  •  This is not news (10+ / 0-)

    About 4 years ago my cousin who is Navy, specialty code-breaking, a real techno geek, got deployed to Baghdad patrol duty. That was 4 years ago.

    They've been grabbing warm bodies for a long time. You sign up, you're going to Iraq, no matter what.

    Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

    by The Raven on Mon May 07, 2007 at 08:50:36 PM PDT

  •  I got news - (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    edrie, mjd in florida, dolphin777, toddpw

    It's not the same military that we had a few years ago.  The current US military is something completely different.

    It's a non-functioning military which doesn't know what it's supposed to do, they can't even form a consistent message on what they are doing (another sign of chaos inside the Pentagon).

    There is no leadership, only confusion.

    Give a Mr. Don Rumsfailed 100% credit for that. When he was picked as Secretary of State back in 2000, he purged the Pentagon.  Interviewed every one of the generals, and many others.  If they disagreeed with Don, they were asked to leave.

    The only people left were butt-kissing sycophants, Yes Men.

    Problem is, Don Rumsfailed got thrown out himself, the minute the Dem's took over last November.  That leaves.....

    a military which doesn't know which way to turn.

  •  To add to it... (6+ / 0-)

    There's now a hard push in my squadron to ensure everybody is current on their SABC training. This is basic combat-related first-aid that every Airman gets during basic training. Traditionally it has been completely ignored after that, despite regulations requiring bi-annual recertification. Within the last six months, every member of my squadron has been pushed through the training, so we're now "capable" of cleaning and dressing severe injuries. It's 100% directed at providing Airmen to shore up the gaps in the Army.

    If the US military isn't yet broken, it's at least very very close to it.

  •  I don't think there will be (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    edrie, Alex of the Sea

    ...a draft.  I think that they will continue with what they have been doing.  Multiple tours, with shorter down times, sending those with physical and/or mental problems, and of course sending over the career guys/women who planned to retire but weren't allowed to.

    Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

    by BarbinMD on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:04:05 PM PDT

  •  The Air Force is about to return to the Army (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    edrie, Lashe, operculum

    It used to be called the Army Air Corps until after WWII.

    Now 20,000 Air Force service men and women are being deployed to the Army as grunts;

    From Military.com

    About 20,000 Air Force personnel have filled shortfalls in the ground services’ manning – dubbed "in lieu of taskings" – including convoy and base security operations and even detainee handling jobs. As early as 2005, Air Force security personnel began augmenting Army detainee-handling troops at Camp Bucca prison near Baghdad and have continued to man prison jobs in Iraq.

    "We don’t guard prisoners, we don’t even have a prison," Moseley said. "To take out people and train them to be a detainee-guarding entity requires time away from their normal job."

    Some U.S.-based Air Force commands have as many as 25 percent of their personnel deployed to Iraq and are still executing their home station duties. For example, the San Angelo, Texas-based 17th Training Wing has its crash, fire, and rescue teams and security force units deployed "and we’re still operating the wing," Moseley said.

    But it gets WORSE.  It seems the Pentagon is raiding the Air Force payroll. I kid you not! (same source)

    The Air Force’s top officer said Wednesday that if nearly $1 billion in personnel funds taken from the service to pay for combat in Iraq and Afghanistan isn’t restored by the end of the summer, Airmen and civilian employees might not get their pay.

    Due to a congressional delay in approving a wartime supplemental funding bill this year, the Pentagon pulled about $880 million from the Air Force’s personnel accounts to make up for a shortfall it warned lawmakers would come in mid-April.

    Dailykos.com; an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action -1.75 -7.23

    by Shockwave on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:31:25 PM PDT

  •  Street Talk (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    edrie, Cliss, operculum

    I was at a community fair on Sunday and heard a conversation in the ground.  Two men in their twenties or thirties talking about a third who was going back to Iraq for another tour, third or fourth rotation.  They sounded worried, as well they should, for their friend as well as the situation.

    I have a friend in the service is coming from Afghanistan and now two or three months after that tour, heading to Iraq.

    Ask the cops, firemen, and EMTs what's going on with their co-workers and reserve or Guard service.  It's beginning to hurt, noticeably.

    Solar is civil defense. Video of my small scale solar experiments at http://solarray.blogspot.com/2006/03/solar-video.html

    by gmoke on Mon May 07, 2007 at 10:53:59 PM PDT

  •  What if (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    edrie, Lashe, Cliss

    people no longer trusted the government, but the government outsourced the military to a private party, set up a corruption racket in the process and embroiled an empire in endless war?

    It happened before.

    Is it happening now?

    Been wiretapped lately?

    by m00nchild on Mon May 07, 2007 at 11:35:39 PM PDT

    •  we only ignore history at our own (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Cliss, Alex of the Sea

      peril.

      i really and truly believe the reason bush and the neos are so intent on destroying the public education system is so the young coming up have no availability of information such as you link.

      an ignorant population is a controlled population.

      words are dangerous.

      art is dangerous.

      thought is dangerous.

      freedom is dangerous.

      let us protect you and you won't have to worry.  

      trust us.

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