Daily Kos

Is Bush the Worst President ever?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:45:45 PM PDT

I hear this a lot. It's kinda a no-brainer around Kos, and don't get me wrong, I lean towards the simple answer, yes

On the other hand, not all do, and the question isn't a simple one ...

He would have some competition for that title, but, again, the question is a little misleading. Yes, I know I asked it, but I did so only because it is a phrase I hear repeated around the place, and thought it maybe bore a little examination.

Let's go back to the beginning.

There are those, I am sure, who would consider George Washington (funny that, all those Georges) to have been a pretty Un-American kinda guy. After all, he was the 1st President to be sworn in under the newly adopted Constitution of the United States of America. This liberal nonsense has come under severe attack from the latest, and in their eyes at least, most enlightened of Executive branches of government.

Indeed, it would appear that root and branch reform of this worthless liberal document, this "piece of paper" is in order. Notwithstanding the fact that it has proven to be the very foundation of this country, and the bedrock upon which a broadly democratic society has been built.

Given the outrage heard from some right wing quarters when freedoms are called into question, then there does appear to be some support for the notion that the Bill of Rights in particular, needed George Bush's wholesale reform, and never mind what the State's governments might have to say about it. Oh, but leave the 2nd alone, as those same people think it allows them to shoot folk in the streets without any apparent concern that there might be an arrest, trial and life-imprisonment to follow.

So, broadly we have two groups taking positions on the two Georges. One group insists the first George was an enlightened leader of a young nation, and that the latest George is a man of limited intelligence, who is pushed around mercilessly by the smart but evil folk around him, eventually to be found washed up, like flotsam on the shores of history. The other group, and I generalise a little, accepts that history deals kindly with George Washington, and acknowledges that he was indeed a man of honour and vision, during times when democracy must have been a hard line to walk. The two hundred years or so that have elapsed have done much to show that the document those guys signed up to is still relevant, still powerful, and still a moving tribute to their courage.

Yeah we get amendments. There is a process, and it requires the States to sign their agreement. I have no record of which States agreed to the trashing of the 4th Amendment, but feel confident that others will point me to the evidence I am missing. I am conscious that other Amendments have been damaged too, but the 4th is so damned obvious I am stopping there.

So .... is he the worst or not?

I think the answer to this question lies buried in another piece I wrote. I think you have to ask Which America?. It is a fatal error that Europeans often make (many Americans make the same mistake), to think that America is one big place, homogenised from shore to shining shore. It isn't, it never was, and it came as quite a shock to me when I first realised it. There are many Americas, all linked federally, but separated in significant ways. Separated socially, geographically, culturally, racially, economically and in many other ...allys.

One significant separation is that between the corporate side of the US, and the people who live here. Each would seem to rely upon the other, and to a great extent they do. But it is not a symbiotic relationship. Corporations here are not run for the benefit of their employees, nor of the community at large. Walmart does not provide health care for very many of it's workers. In fact, in many States, Walmart is a parasite upon the State relief for the poor, relying on this to cover it's sick. And Walmart isn't alone, it is just the biggest.

American corporations do not move American jobs abroad to advance the economic standing of the community. They do it to avoid paying a living wage, to maximise profits for a few, with no sense of shame or patriotism. I don't give a flying fuck how many Stars and Stripes they fly outside their corporate headquarters, they behave like economic terrorists.

So how would this America, this corporate society view the current incumbent? Well, quite frankly, they bought him the desk, and he hasn't let them down. Well maybe a little, having kinda queered the pitch for a potential successor. With that single caveat though, he has been a resounding success, and possibly the best President in history. The biggest American companies have grown bigger, fatter and more difficult to reason with, more in the last six years than at any time in history. Take a look at the increases in defence spending if you don't believe me.

Meanwhile, I still post in internet groups where ordinary Americans ... you know, the comfortable but still need to work, the poorer but still happy, those Americans, most of us ... and this President gets oodles of support.

They support the employer who discriminates then is supported in turn by a bankrupt Supreme Court. They support the man who shoots someone who looked at him in a threatening manner (I exaggerated that for comic effect, but you get the drift). They think they have decent healthcare ... are they nuts? ... and heaven forbid we ever had socialised care ... you know, the kind that gets you better without bankrupting you ... and they will vote for Republicans again.

I want some of that. Some of the kind of power that allows you to treat people mercilessly, to abuse them, to deny them any worker rights, or even habeas corpus, yet still gets them buying, again and again and again.

Most of all, I want Democrats to have it .... have it and use it wisely, responsibly, and for the benefit of all Americans. Yeah, even the ones who voted Republican ... again, dammit.

There are many different Americas ... I want a government that responds positively to them all.

Tags: George W. Bush (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 48 comments

  •  Tips or comments, both welcome :) n/t (6+ / 0-)

    We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

    by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:44:22 PM PDT

  •  Simple. (2+ / 0-)

    Worst. President. Ever.

    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again, but already it was impossible to say which was which."

    by Lefty the playwright on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:45:23 PM PDT

  •  Had dinner with non-political friends tonight (1+ / 0-)

    The man who is so non-political he never votes said that Bush is the worst President we have ever had.

  •  If I Am Honest, It Is Hard To Say (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    slave138, Ice Blue, Randall Sherman

    Of course he is during my lifetime. But reading about presidents 150 years ago in a book and living through one is two very different things IMHO. But my gut is 30-50 years from now history books may be even more critical of Bush, cause I think a lot of the things he has put in place won't be fully known or understood for decades to come.

    Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.

    by webranding on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:48:54 PM PDT

    •  Before this prez, polls of historians have (0+ / 0-)

      almost always ranked Andrew Johnson the worst president in history.  He wouldn't listen to his advisors, he made second class citizens of newly freed blacks, etc., etc.  

      But now, I understand, more and more historians are saying Bush has surpassed even Johnson in terms of suckitude.  You be the judge.

      (FWIW, I think Bush is, indeed, the worst.)

      People never lie so much as after a hunt, during a war or before an election. --Otto von Bismarck

      by Ice Blue on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:06:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  NY Time's Frank Rich gave some assessment (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      bayside, Youffraita

      on shrub's place in history, with comparison to the most recent disgraced president, Nixon. From his column two Sundays ago:

      It's hard to pity someone who, to me anyway, is too slight to hate. Unlike Nixon, President Bush is less an overreaching Machiavelli than an epic blunderer surrounded by Machiavellis. He lacks the crucial element of acute self-awareness that gave Nixon his tragic depth. Nixon came from nothing, loathed himself and was all too keenly aware when he was up to dirty tricks. Mr. Bush has a charmed biography, is full of himself and is far too blinded by self-righteousness to even fleetingly recognize the havoc he's inflicted at home and abroad....
      Arguably the most accurate gut check on what the country feels about Mr. Bush was a January Newsweek poll finding that a sizable American majority just wished that his ''presidency was over.'' This flat-lining administration inspires contempt and dismay more than the deep-seated, long-term revulsion whipped up by Nixon; voters just can't wait for Mr. Bush to leave Washington so that someone, anyone, can turn the page and start rectifying the damage.

  •  He's a mass murderer, answer is yes. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Randall Sherman
  •  Of course he is and check out this Barack quote.. (0+ / 0-)

    Obama used to be for single payer before he came out against it.

    by formernadervoter on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:52:48 PM PDT

  •  Yes. n/t (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Randall Sherman

    John McCain: Vowing to connect real leaders with real bowels

    by chicago minx on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:54:14 PM PDT

  •  Which America? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    twigg, Randall Sherman

    The vision I have for America seems to be fundamentally (ooh, that word) different from the one bush, his friends and his 28% hold.  Silly me, I actually bought into all that stuff I learned in school, so I grew up with big expectations.  I still think that's the America we should promote.  I agree with Michael Moore who said that it's not about me, me, me; it's about we, we, we.

  •  You Said Something Interesting (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ice Blue, twigg

    I think the answer to this question lies buried in another piece I wrote. I think you have to ask Which America?. It is a fatal error that Europeans often make (many Americans make the same mistake), to think that America is one big place, homogenised from shore to shining shore. It isn't, it never was, and it came as quite a shock to me when I first realised it. There are many Americas, all linked federally, but separated in significant ways. Separated socially, geographically, culturally, racially, economically and in many other ...

    I don't think most people, much less people running for national office, get this. I come at it from a somewhat strange POV. 1/3 of my life I've lived in the  midwest. 1/3 in Washington DC. 1/3 in Southern Louisiana.

    The differences are more then just midwest, south, and east. It goes deeper then that. One story I mention is how when I moved back to the midwest after living in DC I was "full" of myself. You know I wore custom suits. Drove a four door German sedan. Ate sushi.

    There was a part of me, even if I didn't notice it, thought I was superior. Well nothing could have been further from the truth. That I have a $6,000 computer set-up is what I like. That the guy to the right of me has $20,000 invested in a ATV and boat is just what he likes.

    I am kind of rambling cause this is a complex topic, but if we want to start winning more national elections we have to remember that many in American, like not on the coasts, don't really have different values or view points, just different interests.

    Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.

    by webranding on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:58:18 PM PDT

    •  My first experience (0+ / 0-)

      of the US was a trip to Maryland in 2003.

      My hosts were a couple who lead very successful lifes, and live only 20 miles or so from Capitol Hill.

      I was introduced to many of their friends and family, and met people I immediately felt at home with (I am from the UK)

      I have since married, and settled (for now) in Oklahoma. The differences are stark.

      I genuinely feel the the people I met on the East Coast have more in common, in terms of outlook and attitude, with people from the UK, than they do with those in the Midwest.

      We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

      by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:03:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There Is No Doubt About That (0+ / 0-)

        I genuinely feel the the people I met on the East Coast have more in common, in terms of outlook and attitude, with people from the UK, than they do with those in the Midwest.

        But at some point I made the same mistake in my post that I was accusing others of making by saying East vs. West coast. Of course people in NYC have a lot in common with those in LA. But there are people that live in those places that have much in common with those in the midwest.

        One of my co-workers lives in Maryland right outside of DC. He is there cause it is where he wife works. In this world he'd much prefer to live by me, cause he works for one reason only, to hunt and fish the second he is done.

        I started thinking about this during the last election cycle when a person working on a campaign in Oklahoma has some "hot shots" from DC come out to help as the race got closer. They talked to the people like they were "hicks" or "farmers." It pissed him off.

        I will never forget after I had moved back to rural Illinois (where I grew up) and went to a bar in my town of 5,500. I am talking to this guy in overalls driving a PBR. I am pissed they didn't have Grey Goose.

        I started to talk with him. His tractor cost $550,000. I asked about farming, like what he does the rest of the year. "Oh I trade futures online" was his response.

        I hate to admit I was this way, but I was. I just came to realize (kind of like the millionare next door) that his wasn't close to dumb, and his money was just spent on different things cause he has different interest.

        BTW: Edwards, if he had the right opinion on trade and guns, could win a lot of votes by me.

        Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.

        by webranding on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:23:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I know some (0+ / 0-)

          very nice hicks and farmers :)

          Here is what gets me ....

          I was discussing the latest outrage from the Supreme Court, The one about the woman who lost her discrimination case because she didn't complain soon enough .... well doh!

          The argument coming back was that the employer needed some kind of statute of limitations, or they could be pursued for years.

          Basically, quite a few were blaming the woman for not finding out sooner that she was being abused ... and the abuser should get away with it because they carefully hid their tracks for 5 years.

          I know this is not just a midwest thing, but it's the latest of many .... don't get me started on concealed carry .... where rural and metropolitan views are about as alike as .. er .. two very unalike things.

          We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

          by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:38:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh Don't Get Me Started On That Case (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            slave138, Zack from the SFV

            I don't know why it didn't get a lot more media attention. In every, I mean EVERY company I have worked at talking about salary can get you canned.

            The only reason she found out was somebody gave her a document she would not really have had (well you know what I mean). The whole case was sad at many different levels.

            Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.

            by webranding on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:00:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Prohibitions of this kind (3+ / 0-)

              are very common, apparently, and also probably unlawful.

              It would seem to be one of the most common methods American companies use to divide and rule the workforce.

              I have yet to hear a good reason why such bans should be allowed. My wife is a teacher, her salary is a public record accessible by anyone. As far as I know, the school district hasn't completely collapsed yet ... well not because colleagues know how much each is earning anyway.

              We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

              by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:07:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, Just Have To Comment On the Concealed Carry (0+ / 0-)

            That was one of the reason I liked Dean so much. He understood guy control should be local. You don't want people in New York City walking around with a gun strapped to their hip, but where you and I live it is a different story.

            In fact where I live a lot of people don't even lock their doors and there is close to no crime, cause you stand a good chance of getting shot if you break into a home by me.

            Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.

            by webranding on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:07:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

              It's a different story where we live.

              I also think that it's because there is no effective gun control, certainly where I live.

              I really do understand folk who feel the need to add a gun for personal protection ... they must do as they think best, and I have no argument with them.

              I also believe they are forced into this position by local government that is failing in it's job to protect us all.

              We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

              by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:15:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But I Am Also A Cause & Affect Guy (0+ / 0-)

                and in the UK and the rest of Europe you don't have handguns like we do here and the murder rate is close to zero.

                Personally I have no use for guns. Never even shot one (real good w/ a bow though). What I don't get is the difference in this area and larger metro areas. You run your mouth here and you'll get your ass kicked. But w/ fists. People would never think of pulling a gun. When I lived in DC if you ran your mouth you might be shot.

                Somehow there is a difference here that I am not smart enough to explain.

                Let us not forget New Orleans. Visit Project Katrina.

                by webranding on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:19:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I don't have those answers (0+ / 0-)

                  I do know that Canadians, per head of pop. own more guns that Americans, but the death rate is down near European levels.

                  The difference is that Canadians own very few handguns (and they all go to bed at 8 pm, I hear).

                  It seems to me that some action needs to be taken to rid US society of handguns. I know this won't be easy, or quick. But we have to start somewhere, or simply accept the 30 000 deaths a year.

                  We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

                  by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:37:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  I hate to state the obvious... (0+ / 0-)

                  You run your mouth here and you'll get your ass kicked. But w/ fists. People would never think of pulling a gun. When I lived in DC if you ran your mouth you might be shot.

                  Wouldn't it make more sense not to 'run your mouth'?

  •  Yeah, probably (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    slave138, Randall Sherman

    At any rate, he's by far the worst ever elected to a second term.

    Hell, the man is so uniquely awful that he makes us all forget how much we disliked Reagan, Nixon and his dad.

    Pikers, all of them, compared to this fellow.

    "Intelligence and stupidity have no limits. Unfortunately it looks like stupidity has won" -Arsene Wenger

    by brownsox on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 08:59:34 PM PDT

  •  Not only is Bush the Worst President Ever, (0+ / 0-)

    but God willing, he'll also be known as...

    THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT, EVER!

  •  is flipper the most famous tv dolphin ever? (0+ / 0-)

    from bulgaria, with love

    by memofromturner on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:08:49 PM PDT

  •  worst United States president (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    slave138, Ice Blue

      Definitely the worst this country has ever seen, but he is in the middle of the pack in terms of sleaze bag dictators who've taken the title president. For example, Uganda used to have a president named Idi Amin ... he definitely exceeds Bush in overall ickiness ... but only a little.

    "Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy." - Albus Dumbledore

    by Iowa Boy on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:24:44 PM PDT

  •  "ever" of course, extends into the future... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    edavis

    ...so ask again on Jan 21st, 2009...

    •  Jeez! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jessical

      That's a terrible thought you just had ... there might be worse to come?

      We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

      by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:44:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  eh, I'm just thinking nowadays... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        twigg

        ...that the worst one ever will probably be the last one.  If he's still there, he's the worst...

        •  When he was re-elected ... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          jessical

          There was an opinion poll in the UK the day before.

          80% thought Kerry would win. That is how far Europeans are from understanding America.

          I simply wondered why, out of 300 million American citizens, GW was the best that could be found to lead the country.

          An object lesson for me, I guess.

          We do not forgive our candidates their humanity, therefore we compel them to appear inhuman

          by twigg on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 10:01:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Does ever include (0+ / 0-)

    the future ?

    Does ever include
    all of time from way way back ?

    If so then , from before the Pangaea split into smaller continents untill far into the future , Yes .

    "The fussy armchair jackboots"

    by indycam on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:45:47 PM PDT

  •  Is the Pope Catholic? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Bionic

    And in case George is reading this, yes, he is.

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.

    by Groucho Marxist on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 09:45:58 PM PDT

  •  Bush has gone out of his way... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rmx2630, Ari Mistral, Ice Blue

    ... to take the worst aspects from some of our past leaders.  He has reflected the cronyism of Grant, the dishonesty or Nixon, the internment strategies of FDR along with the war-mongering of Teddy, the debt-building of Reagan and wrapped in the suspension of our freedoms under Lincoln.

    He's a golem molded from the worst our former presidents have had to offer - I'd say that qualifies him as the worst.

  •  Is Cheney a Dick? (3+ / 0-)

    The Pope Catholic?

    There's your answer.

  •  It's not just Bushie-boy.... (0+ / 0-)

    It's the ENTIRE administration who is at fault.  Yes Bush Jr IS THE WORST Prez. for a dang near century, but he didn't do all of it alone. (or did he???????)

    Only the Gods and Bushie-boy himself will only know

  •  Aggressively the worst (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ari Mistral

      G W Bush is the worst President ever because he tries hard to be the worst. A lot of the 19th and 20th century bad presidents were bad because they were unable to do much to deal with the problems of their time or were not up to the job. In particular I am thinking of the bad pre-Civil War Presidents like my namesake, Zack Taylor, his veep Millard Fillmore and the forgettable Frank Pierce. James Buchanan  is mostly remembered for being gay, and for being the one before Lincoln.
      Later there were bad Presidents who were corrupt or blind to the corruption in their administrations. Warren G. Harding is the best example of this type.
      Bush Jr combines some of the attributes of the previous ones with extreme stubbornness and an inability to be swayed by facts. Combined with his robber baron economic policies, unilateralist and aggressive foreign policy, theocon social policies, and disrespect for the Constitution and separation of powers, he is clearly the worst ever. In my lifetime we have had some real stinkers like Nixon, Reagan and "Papa Doc" Bush, but "Baby Doc" is the one...

    I'm not a Limousine Liberal; I am a Prius Progressive

    by Zack from the SFV on Fri Jun 15, 2007 at 11:36:47 PM PDT

  •  No. Not By Half. (0+ / 0-)

    It's Reagan all the way down.

    Given Reagan, a W Bush became a mathematical certainty.

    Reagan convinced The Greatest Generation, reeling from having ground up some of their children by running the Vietnam War, to dismantle The New Deal and thereby make W a mathematical certainty.

    Evil has dimensions we not only do not suppose, but cannot suppose.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 01:14:29 AM PDT

  •  Do bears shit in the woods? (0+ / 0-)

  •  How can you even compare (0+ / 0-)

    the two.  I mean one truly served in both the military and the White House.  Also, he worked damn hard, fought tooth and nail against horrible odds, outsmarted some very intelligent British military men, and didn't have mommy and daddy to bail him out.  And he didn't let power and greed consume him.  These two are so polar to one another I just don't understand.  And please tell your friend who doesn't vote that he makes it terribly hard on those of us who do!

    When power leads man toward arrogance, poetry reminds him of his limitations. JFK

    by yowsta on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 04:58:40 AM PDT

  •  Also Washinton wasn't afraid of horses like w (0+ / 0-)

    When power leads man toward arrogance, poetry reminds him of his limitations. JFK

    by yowsta on Sat Jun 16, 2007 at 05:12:16 AM PDT

Permalink | 48 comments