Daily Kos

Ron Paul equals Pat Buchanan

Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:23:19 PM PDT

Crossposted from My Left Wing and Booman Tribune

Nothing ever surprises me about Republican candidates, but perhaps Ron Paul does.


He just may be a stealth candidate Pat Buchanan might like.


Why?

I once felt the same way that blogger Black MYStory did about Ron Paul. A man who refreshingly proclaimed during the GOP debates and on Bill Maher's show that the Republican Party had lost its way, and needs to return to its roots--that's the kind of man who I believed was reasonable.  Not a wingnut or a hater, so I thought, although I wouldn't vote for him.  I slotted him just to the center of someone like Pete McCloskey.


However, Paul accepted a plaudit from Maher on his last show for the season that he was indeed more conservative than his conservative fellow candidates, and that jangled alarm bells in my brain.



Why bring in Pat Buchanan?  Because Buchanan can easily get liberals and progressives to jump on his side when he talks about Iraq literally sucking the lifeblood and treasure out of the country.  But when Buchanan starts inveighing against immigration and blacks...he loses these same progressives quick.  The racism is right there in your face; you just can't abide it.


So here's where the term "stealth" comes in with Ron Paul, because Houston Chronicle political writer Alan Bernstein reported some disturbing information about Paul during the 1996 Texas congressional race:

Paul, writing in his independent political newsletter in 1992, reported about unspecified surveys of blacks.


"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action,"Paul wrote.


Paul continued that politically sensible blacks are outnumbered "as decent people." Citing reports that 85 percent of all black men in the District of Columbia are arrested, Paul wrote:


"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said.


Paul also wrote that although "we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."


A campaign spokesman for Paul said statements about the fear of black males mirror pronouncements by black leaders such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who has decried the spread of urban crime.

Jesse has never--during the time I have been following his career--used this kind of rhetoric about black men and street crime.


Does Ron Paul continue to stand behind these words he wrote in the heat of a congressional battle fifteen years ago?  Black MYStory thinks:

So, a white kid raised in a "good home" is less culpable for murder than a black kid raised "on the streets"?


Look, a lot can change about a person in 15 years but, I think Ron Paul may have some explaining to do.

Do tell. 


And people wonder why blacks tend not to support certain candidacies or certain constituencies?  How about the environmental movement?


Take for example, a recent award given to St. Bernard Parish (Louisiana) president Junior Rodriguez by the Delta Chapter of the Sierra Club on April 21, 2007.


The corpulent Junior Rodriguez, as some of you may know, was a witness to Hurricane Katrina, and who appeared in Spike Lee's When the Levees Broke documentary. 


I'm sure some of you got the idea, from his witnessing, that this Henry Rodriguez, Jr., seemed like a pretty good guy.


What some of you may not know--particularly the members of the Delta Chapter of the Sierra Club (and Anderson Cooper of CNN) who hurried to laud the parish president for his criticism of FEMA and of the upkeep of the Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet Canal (or MRGO) is that Rodriguez is pretty much a racist who has pushed through legislation in 2006 prohibiting blacks from ever living as renters in St. Bernard Parish.  As Lance Hill put it:

More recently, the Louisiana Chapter of the Sierra Club recently honored St. Bernard Parish Council President Henry "Junior" Rodriguez with their "Legislative Leadership" award.  This, despite the fact that Rodriguez has a long and un-apologetic history of publicly using racial epithets and took the lead in passing the "blood relative rental law" last October that effectively prevented blacks from renting in St. Bernard Parish.  The law made it a crime for white home-owners to rent to anyone other than a "blood relative," effectively making it impossible for blacks and Latinos to rent in the 96% white parish. That a putatively liberal organization like the Sierra Club can countenance racism by honoring a man with a long history of open bigotry is a sign of a serious problem that begs for a community-wide dialogue; and it’s a case study in how not to build racial unity and counter racism.

What's underground usually rises to the surface.


Unfortunately, people fool themselves thinking that as long as people cloak their language and hide their propensities, there is no racism present and all is well with the world.  With some  liberals and progressives, however, starved for some leadership or mainstream advocacy for an issue or program close to their hearts, they may refuse to see that some people will never change. With blacks, they know that  with voting, their very lives may be on the line.


So between Ron Paul and Junior Rodriguez, and between Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan, there may not be such a difference at all in these men's 'conservative' views.


And this leads me to place Paul in the same category as Pat Buchanan.  Unless...


People had better choose their s/heroes carefully.

Tags: Ron Paul, Houston Chronicle, 2008 elections, Republicans, racism, Sierra Club, Junior Rodriquez, progressives, heroes, Recommended, Pat Buchanan (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 321 comments

  •  Thank you for this... (49+ / 0-)

    I've been troubled by the positive attention Ron Paul has been getting around here recently.  He agrees with the liberal position on the war in Iraq, which, while probably being the most important issue of the day, is not the only issue.  On almost everything else, his positions are horrendous.

    And this is not the first time I've seen documented evidence of his outright racism.

    •  I'm troubled (11+ / 0-)

      that people think praising Paul's Iraq position somehow means praising ALL of his positions.  My god, he's the only republican candidate calling for an end to the war, it DESERVES positive attention.  

      For all the compliments I have read about Paul, not once have I seen someone say they are giving up on the Dems and voting for Paul.  Its ridiculous!

      •  There was a diary yesterday (19+ / 0-)

        that actually recommended sending money to Ron Paul's campaign.

        And it isn't just his position on the war that people are praising--people are praising the man himself an ignoring his odious history.

        •  I've seen it coming (14+ / 0-)

          from some serious lefties that I know, too. Granted, not terribly attentive ones, in general -- they just like that he seems to "speak his mind", and aren't aware of the rest of his record on things.

          Point being, it's something that people need to be made aware of. Paul is really not our friend, no matter how much he might be willing to speak his mind on Iraq and US foreign policy.

          The Pat Buchanan parallel is a good one, IMO, because I think of Pat much the same way -- he occasionally says something I agree with, but that certainly doesn't excuse him his absolute idiocy on a number of other really vital issues.

          •  asdf (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Geotpf

            Dr. Paul's a bit more libertarian than old-line conservative. And he's a far cry from McCloskey (who the diarist cited), a country club social liberal who didn't want Jewish folks sharing his fairways.

            There are a whole lot of ordinary-people Republican voters around the country who believe that the war sucks (but, for whatever reason, cannot give up on an affiliation that's lasted a lifetime). DC influences corrupt both sides, though, hence the lockstep from all but Ron Paul among the GOP contenders.

            You're right, though. Dr. Paul is not our friend on any issue other than ending the Iraq war. That he can be useful in achieving a noble goal has no bearing on whether we should be willing to support him. There are far too many other issues and value statements that ought to keep us far, far away from the lunatic right wing fringe of the libertarian element here.

            The next fantasy: Obama/Dean (please let it be)

            by wystler on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:01:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Patriot Act? Real ID, DrugWar? (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Geotpf, libertynow, TastyCurry

              Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
              Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

              by ben masel on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:18:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You don't get to choose (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                wystler

                Abortion, gays, race, social security, education...

                I happen to have been raised by the SS death benefits.  Something which wouldn't existed if Paul were president.

                "A problem facing any American is a problem facing all Americans." Obama

                by otto on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:20:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I was responding to... (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  libertynow

                  "Dr. Paul is not our friend on any issue other than ending the Iraq war."

                  Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
                  Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

                  by ben masel on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 05:02:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Ron Paul, bit player, not a friend of the people (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    wystler

                    Aug. 5, 2001

                    Houston delegates at odds

                    FEMA fight latest flare-up in House

                    By JULIE MASON and KAREN MASTERSON
                    Houston Chronicle

                    ...

                    Rep. Ron Paul, a Republican from Surfside, is a lone wolf among the delegation, and not a key player on any major issue.

                    A staunch advocate for minimal government, Paul opposes many
                    government programs on the grounds that they are not expressly allowed in the Constitution. (Think Social Security. Think Medicare. Think Medicaid. Think OSHA. Think Worker's Compensation. Think Disability Insurance. Think the Women, Infancts and Children (WIC) program. Think Unemployment Benefits. )

                    Bills he has filed in the current Congress include reaffirming the United States as a republic, ending U.S. membership in the United Nations and restoring Second Amendment gun rights to all Americans....

                    Wynton Marsalis:"Blues never lets tragedy have the last word." Fannie Lou Hamer: "What is electoral fairness?"

                    by skywriter on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 08:17:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  But who are your friends (0+ / 0-)

            people with the unfortunate habit of selling your ideals out to corporate lobbyists? Dems who continually vote for more blood for oil, the fascist patriot acts, and real ID?
        •  a diary yesterday (0+ / 0-)

          that actually recommended sending money to Ron Paul's campaign.

          Yes, and the author who put up that diary is a poster at Red-state. That ought to tell you all you need to know. I wouldn't worry. Democrats ain't gonna go for that guy, or give money to his campaign.

    •  but unlike bush, Ron Paul would probably work (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      libertynow, Common Cents

      with both sides of the aisle on issues of importance to this country...he's getting positive vibes from both sides of the political spectrum because he's a fuckin' libertarian...I believe that means he knows the Dewey Decimal System :)

      And he doesn't believe in kissing big oil's ass.

      That said, he's still far too conservative to ever get my vote, but if we have to have any of the GOP candidates to run against, he'd be the one I'd want to have to beat in November.  Giuliani, Romney, and McCain slimy from the toes up, Hunter and Tancredo should just join the fuckin' minutemen and hang out in the desert together watching for brown people, and Thompson might as well join the actor of the same name on L&O.

      Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

      by darthstar on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:25:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'd like to see Ron Paul (10+ / 0-)

        work with John Conyers on that 95% black male criminality problem. That would go so smoothly.

      •  Just what we need (7+ / 0-)

        Four more years with a President who hates government.

        I don't get the Libertarians.  I think the major reason is that they have a scale problem - their ideas sometimes work in small communities at a local level, but Libertarian ideas writ large usually end up with the strong screwing the weak, and no attention at all to major problems that require collective action - environmental, security, health, etc.  

        Don't expect Libertarians to be solving global warming, healthcare crisis, pandemics, immigration, really any other major problem that takes creative community resolve and collective action.  

        I personally have always thought Ron Paul was kind of a weird neighbor, a grumbling moron angry at the world... it hardly surprises me that he's also a racist, at least if there is truth to the sources you cite.  

        God, who gave man scabies, also gave him hands to scratch them.

        by ivorybill on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:02:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  He's not a libertarian (4+ / 0-)

        he's anti-choice, for one thing

        •  Christian Dominionist? (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          plf515

          He also opposes the separation of church and state, a very un-libertarian position.

          "The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life." -Ron Paul in 2003

        •  Indeed. (4+ / 0-)

          He believes that 51% of the US population is not entitled to equal protection under law. However, may I remind you what my .sig says. Ron Paul is for forced childbearing.

          New frame: they aren't pro-life, they are advocates of forced childbearing.
          "The two Americas are the very rich and everybody else." -- J. Edwards

          by Snakes on a White House on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:19:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Libertarianism is not pro- or anti- choice (0+ / 0-)

          A Libertarian could think life begins at conception.  That is, thinking a fetus is a person is not inconsistant with a Libertarian line of thinking.  Likewise, thinking a fetus is not a person and a woman should have a right to do what she wants to to her body is also not inconsistant with Libertarianism.  The actual Libertarian Party takes no policy view one way or the other, for example.

      •  there is no evidence of that darthstar (0+ / 0-)

        he has been isolated politically for all of the time he's been in congress. he neither works with republicans or democrats from houston. i quote up thread from a story on that subject, from the houston chronicle.

        Wynton Marsalis:"Blues never lets tragedy have the last word." Fannie Lou Hamer: "What is electoral fairness?"

        by skywriter on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:17:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Personally, I love Ron Paul!!! (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      libertynow, Common Cents

      He's in the Republican debates, bringing up the Iraq War, and rubbing their lying noses it. I am seriously hoping he pisses the GOP off enough that they decide to exclude him from the debates altogether, leading him to run as an independent, and thus splitting the party.  And, yes, I agree, he's a first class nut-job on many levels, but you still gotta love him for what he's doing to the GOP.

    •  I don't think Paul's a racist (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ben masel, ztn, libertynow, TastyCurry, Quequeg

      http://www.freemarketnews.com/...

      Some things published in the past under the name of Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, especially about blacks, are getting renewed attention from bloggers on the left and right now that he's made something of a name for himself after his performances in the first two Republican presidential debates. From the right, Flopping Aces says Paul "appears to have had a few racist viewpoints." From the left, Daily Kos calls him "a vicious, contemptible racist who comforts the radical right wing like no presidential candidate since David Duke."

      Getting much attention: A 1996 Houston Chronicle story that says a newsletter Paul published in the early 1990s "highlighted portrayals of blacks as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about top political issues." That newsletter was called the Ron Paul Political Report, and according to Kos, Paul told Texas Monthly magazine in October 2001 that "I could never say this in the campaign, but those words weren't really written by me. ... It wasn't my language at all." Kos points out, though, that the newsletter was eight pages long and "whether he employed other writers or not, it beggars belief that Paul would not have had full control and approval over its contents."

      http://blogs.usatoday.com/...

      Ron Paul’s own words on racism, circa 2002, are perhaps his own best rebuttal, according to sources close to the campaign:

      "The true antidote to racism is liberty. Liberty means having a limited, constitutional government devoted to the protection of individual rights rather than group claims. Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees – while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers. More importantly, in a free society every citizen gains a sense of himself as an individual, rather than developing a group or victim mentality. This leads to a sense of individual responsibility and personal pride, making skin color irrelevant. Rather than looking to government to correct what is essentially a sin of the heart, we should understand that reducing racism requires a shift from group thinking to an emphasis on individualism."

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/...

      The facts are:

      1. Ron Paul once had a newsletter.
      1. That newsletter once published racist things, apprently written by an unnamed staffer.
      1. Ron Paul says he did not write or authorize said writings.

      I have never seen an actual quote from Paul that was racist.  The quotes above were not Paul's words, but those of the unnamed writer of his newsletter.

      Paul never shuts up.  Find an actual quote from Paul saying something racist, or drop this line of attack.  False attacks, especially on somebody who is 100% on our side on some of the most important issues of the day, are not helpful.

      Now, I am not a supporter of Paul.  He's a Libertarian, which means he's 100% right on 50% of the issues and 100% wrong on the other 50%.  But this is a false smear, IMHO, and should not be repeated.

      •  Here's more... (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ben masel, ztn, libertynow, TastyCurry

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        Racism
        In an April 2007 column on his official House of Representatives website,[61] Paul criticizes racism, saying:

        "Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike: as collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called 'diversity' actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist."[61]

        A 1996 article in the Houston Chronicle[62] alleges that Ron Paul made comments in a 1992 edition of his Ron Paul Survival Report (a newsletter that he had published from 1985) which could be construed as racist, including disparaging remarks about fellow congressperson Barbara Jordan, and that this could help his political opponents.[63] In a 2001 interview with Texas Monthly magazine, Paul acknowledged that the comments were printed in his newsletter under his name, but explained that they did not represent his views and that they were written by a ghostwriter. He further stated that he felt some moral responsibility for the words that had been attributed to him, despite the fact that they did not represent his way of thinking:

        "They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them...I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they [campaign aides] said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'"[64][65]

        He further stated:

        "I could never say this in the campaign, but those words weren't really written by me. It wasn't my language at all. Other people help me with my newsletter as I travel around. I think the one on Barbara Jordan was the saddest thing, because Barbara and I served together and actually she was a delightful lady... we wanted to do something on affirmative action, and it ended up in the newsletter and became personalized. I never personalize anything."[65]

        Texas Monthly wrote in 2001, at the time they printed the denial, "What made the statements in the publication even more puzzling was that, in four terms as a U. S. congressman and one presidential race, Paul had never uttered anything remotely like this." They state that it would have been easier for him to deny the accusations at the time, because the controversy would have destroyed most politicians.[65]

        •  Really? (11+ / 0-)

          So let me get this straight...  Ron Paul publishes a newsletter under his own name called The Ron Paul Survival Report full of racist and right wing extremist language, but he's not responsible for any of its content because he had someone else do the actual writing?  Sorry, I'm not that gullible.

          •  That's what he said (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            ztn, libertynow, TastyCurry

            And he said his advisors gave him bad advice to not distance himself from it at the time because the newsletter had his name on it and nobody would believe him (like you won't).

            The thing is-outside of writings in the newsletter, he has NEVER said anything racist.  Not once.

            Find a racist quote from him not published in the newsletter in question.  But if you can't, then his claims ring true, IMHO.  One does not show racism in only one forum-it simply doesn't happen.  And, like I said, Paul never shuts up-there's plenty of quotes from him on every topic imaginable.

            He fucked up.  He admitted it.  But those were not his words.

            •  I don't get it (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              shanikka, ademption, malharden

              So, publishing something with your name on it means you don't mean something?  

              This seems to be the George Bush killing puppies onstage thing.  The 28% might not vote for him if they saw him killing puppies with his bare hands, live, onstage.  

              "A problem facing any American is a problem facing all Americans." Obama

              by otto on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:24:04 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  No no no (5+ / 0-)

              You're talking about excuses he's made AFTER the fact.  He was the publisher of the newsletter.  He was listed as the author of the newsletter.  If he didn't support the views expressed in the newsletter, then why did he publish it in the first place?

              •  Outsourcing (3+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                ben masel, libertynow, TastyCurry

                That is, he had somebody else who he thought thought like he did take care of the newsletter, and he didn't properly vet it before it was published.  His handling of the newsletter was moronic.

                But let me repeat: Ron Paul is a man who has been in public life for decades.  He is also a man who never shuts up.  Outside of the newsletter, he has never said anything racist.

                If you have a quote that contradicts this, please share it.

                He are some websites to look at:

                http://www.ronpaul.org/
                http://www.house.gov/...
                http://www.lewrockwell.com/...
                http://www.ronpaulforcongress.com/
                http://www.reason.com/...

                (I could go on-Like I said, he's a man who never shuts up.)

                There's plenty of legitimate attacks against Paul.  He's pro-life, for instance.  Also, he's against all government social programs, such as social security (as is his Libertarian nature).  But he's not a racist.

                •  Um, no... (7+ / 0-)

                  I don't believe him, and I surely don't believe you.

                  In our community if it walks and talks like a duck, then it is.  And don't think we don't give folks the benefit of the doubt.  We do.  We want to believe the best of people.

                  But at the end of the day, when the evidence piles up, you've got to call it as it truly is, because it may mean the difference between living and dying.

                  The urbane, well-coiffed, intellectual, good-looking populist is a lot more dangerous than the loud, overweight, sweating, spewing racist.

                  An untypical Negro...since 1954.

                  by blksista on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:59:43 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What evidence? (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    libertynow, TastyCurry

                    Give me a racist quote from Paul outside of the newsletter!

                    That's all I am asking for.  I am asking for evidence.

                    •  The other foot (2+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      silence, malharden

                      Why don't you provide some evidence that Ron Paul didn't know what was being written in the newsletter that Ron Paul published under his own name for years?

                      •  I gave a quote from Paul himself (2+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        libertynow, TastyCurry

                        Sure, he could be lying.  But he's never made similiar statements elsewhere, so, logic dictates he's probably telling the truth.  If he's made similiar statements elsewhere, logic dictates that he's lying.  So, unless somebody finds similiar statements elsewhere, he's probably telling the truth.

                        •  Flawed (2+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          shanikka

                          Your logic is flawed.  I think Sara over at Ornicus put it best:

                          So Paul's facile assertion that somewhere, somehow, a nasty, scheming ghostwriter slipped all those hateful words in under his name is just ridiculous. To swallow this line, you'd have to be as daft as the White Queen, perfectly willing to believe half a dozen impossible things before breakfast:

                             1. That the ghostwriter who wrote The Ron Paul Survival Report was never really under Ron Paul's control

                             2. That somebody other than Ron Paul put their money on the line to pay the writer (these things don't come cheap -- I charged a minimum of $1K per page for my copy, and his was eight pages per issue).

                             3. And, by extension: that somebody other than Ron Paul owns the resulting intellectual property. (It'd be interesting to see what would happen if some other right wingnut started plagarizing those articles.)

                             4. That Ron Paul never read, commented on, or approved what was written for the newsletter that bore his name -- and was so critical to building his early political base

                             5. That The Ron Paul Survival Report was written, laid out, published, and shipped during the night by elves, with no input from Paul at all

                             6. That Ron Paul actually had nothing whatsoever to do with the Survival Report Apparently, his name ended up in the title as some kind of perverse coincidence. He was out of town that day. All those days.

                          As I said below: Either the man is a straight talker who means what he says, and says what he means -- in which case, he stands by all his words, and is willing to defend them as his own. He started the newsletter, he hired the writer, he approved the copy, he paid for the words to be printed and mailed under his name. Through those actions, he took full legal and moral ownership of those words. They are, then and now, his intellectual property.

                          Or else he's just another weasely politician, using "straight talk" to wow the crowds when it suits his purposes, but equally quick to tell lies to disassociate himself from decades of unsavory "straight talk" that now threatens to keep him off the national stage.

                          It's one or the other, Ron. You cannot have this one both ways -- at least, not without talking out of both sides of your mouth.

                        •  Not Could be Lying - IS Lying (2+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          blksista, ademption

                          Contrary to your assertion, the fact that there are no recent gutter statements from Ron Paul about Black people since he became a recognizable public figure logically dictates not that he's not a racist and didn't really mean to have his name ascribed to racist feelings he personally possessed.  Logic dictates that he's smart enough to realize out that there are highly gullible voters in America (like you) who are willing to believe anything other than the truth if the truth means they have to reject their favored candidate solely because he's a racist pig.

                          It's amazing to me how little value his anti-Black filth is ascribed by you when it comes to making choices, such that you would rather believe an obvious lie (i.e. yes it was my newspaper and yes my name was on it but someone else wrote it and I never stopped them or fired them or publicly disavowed any of those feelings - UNTIL my name got big) than the truth.

                          This one is not even a close call.  And it's rather sad watching you try to make these arguments.  More than sad, quite telling.  

                        •  Publish the Reports (1+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          blksista

                          Look, if what you're saying is true, that this was just one or a couple of issues of his newsletter that slipped past him unawares, then he could clear all this up by simply releasing all of the issues of The Ron Paul Survival Report to the public.  He could publish them all on his website, uncensored or release them to the media.  Instead, there's no mention from any of his public websites that the newsletter even existed.

                    •  Give me time (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      shanikka

                      even with code words, it will be made plain.

                      No wonder Repubs want to get rid of him. He'll embarrass them all if the MSM exposes him at the Stormfront rally or the neo-confederate festival. Paul embraces them while the other candidates would rather secretly get a little skin from them.

                      Worse than George Allen...

                      An untypical Negro...since 1954.

                      by blksista on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:24:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  At first, he didn't use the ghostwriter excuse (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        Firefly

                        It is worth mentioning that when first presented with copies of his newsletter as a campaign issue in 1996, he chose to claim that they were being taken out of context, rather than making the claim that a ghostwriter did it.

                        From a May 23, 1996 article in the Austin-American Statesman:

                        ''I do not condone racism,'' he said, blaming Democrats for using statements he made years ago and taking them out of context.

                        Paul's spokesman, Michael Sullivan, said Paul's comments about black men in Washington was based on a 1992 study by the National Center on Incarceration and Alternatives, a think tank in the Washington area. A search for the center, however, proved fruitless. No organization with that name is registered in Washington or its suburbs.

                        Kind of makes you wonder about why he is now claiming that a ghostwriter did it.

                •  Blind (4+ / 0-)

                  You're right, besides the racist newsletter he published FOR YEARS, his association with groups like the Dixie Daily News and The Patriot Network, and his endorsement by David Duke, I don't, at the moment, have any other evidence to indicate that he's a racist.  As he gets more national exposure, I'm sure more will come out to add to the list.  Stay tuned.

                  •  He's not associated with the Dixie Daily News (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    libertynow

                    The Dixie Daily News is a fan of his, not the other way around.  Same goes for David Duke.

                    Again, using your logic, John Kerry is a communist because the Communist Party supported him for president in 2004.

                  •  "For years" (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Geotpf, libertynow

                    but only 2 dubious quotes

                    Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
                    Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

                    by ben masel on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:23:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Two? (2+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      blksista, shanikka

                      blksista's diary may only have included two quotes, but there are already more out there.  See Meteor Blades' post farther down.  And you have to take into consideration that the newsletter issues are hard to find these days as they seem to be getting scrubbed from right wing extremist sites.  It'll all come out though.

                      •  All the quotes from the original diary... (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        libertynow

                        ...from BlackMyStory were from one article in his newsletter.

                        •  ??? (0+ / 0-)

                          Are you purposely ignoring my points?

                          •  I couldn't find the post you were referring to (0+ / 0-)

                            Searching the page does not work on Daily Kos while using Internet Explorer.

                            Meteor Blades is wrong.

                            He quotes two blog posts from a woman who alleges in one of them that Paul writes for The Dixie Daily News, which is false.  The Dixie Daily News links to articles by and about Paul hosted elsewhere.  That's like saying Kos writes for Fark.com when Fark links to an article here.  The second post says she once wrote for a newsletter as a ghost writer and got paid a lot and the owner of the newsletter owned the copyright-all true.  The argument I'm making (and what Paul says happened) is that Paul did not proofread his newsletter properly-that is, he did not read/edit an article before publishing it.  Also, the allegations of racism from that newsletter were not systemic-the racist statements were only in one article in one issue of the newsletter.

            •  A Lot of Racists (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              blksista, ademption, malharden

              Have never said anything racist.

              In earshot, anyhow.

              (And some even deny it after you hear them, on the old theory that "It's your word against mine.")  

              After all, today, you're only racist if you get caught on tape.

              I cannot believe that you are contending with a straight face that a normal human being would allow the racist filth that was quoted in this diary to be published with any affiliation of any kind to his person for ANY reason and (a) not actually believe it personally; (b) not immediately shitcan the people who suggested that he do so.  If I do set aside my incredulity for a moment, here is what I am left with:  a racist pig who has figured out that there are gullible folks out there who would rather believe ANY stupid story rather than the truth where racism and someone they like is concerned.

              The quoted materials are not stuff about which reasonable minds can disagree.  Surely we can agree on that?

              My God.

      •  Speaking for a neoconfedate group? (3+ / 0-)

        If the writings he put his name on don't really represent Ron Paul, why is he getting endorsements from white supremacist groups?

        If the writings Ron Paul put his name on don't really tell us about his thinking, why is he planning to speak at the apparently neoconfederate "FreedomFest" next month?

        •  FreedomFest is not neoconfederate (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          jxg, libertynow

          The Southern Caucus/Dixie Daily News is neoconfederate, and they support FreedomFest and Paul, but I see no indication the opposite is true.  FreedomFest is a Libertarian confrence with lots of vendors selling gold and off shore banks and crap like that, very much within Paul's sphere of interest.

          Let me give you a similiar example, The Communist Party of America supported Kerry in the 2004 presidential race, but Kerry is not a Communist.

          Paul is supports by Neoconfederates, but Paul is not a Neoconfederate.  It's that simple.

          Paul's a Libertarian.  Period.

          •  I distrust Libertarians (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            jxg, TiaRachel, debedb, malharden

            I think they fail to see the practical outcome of their inaction.  

            THat said,

            Paul voted to support the ban on D and E.  He voted to disallow gays from fostering children in DC.  

            Those are not libertarian positions.  Those are Republican positions.  

            On the other hand, if he's not a Republican, why should Republicans in the primaries react with anything other than annoyance to him?  We're being told by people here that he is somehow changing the thinking, or causing chaos in the Republican primaries.  I find that to be untrue.

            "A problem facing any American is a problem facing all Americans." Obama

            by otto on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:40:11 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Paul on abortion (2+ / 0-)

              There are two, seperate, anti-abortion positions.

              One thinks any women who wants an abortion is a slut who should suffer the "punishment" of having a baby.

              The other truly thinks that life begins at conception, and thinks abortion is murdering a human being.

              I believe Paul is the second.  He is anti-abortion.

              Now, the vote on gay foster parents is more interesting.  Not knowing the particular vote you are refering to, I can only guess some small amount of government spending was involved-Paul votes against pretty much all non-defense federal spending on instinct, as per his Libertarian nature.  He voted against the Katrina recovery funds, for instance (there's an attack against him that is legitimate).

          •  Looks like you're largely right about FreedomFest (3+ / 0-)

            It looks like you're largely correct about FreedomFest.  The sad fact that Ron Paul has a  history of speaking in front of racist groups:

            Through the 90s, Paul was also a regular on the far-right talk circuit. He spoke to Texas secessionists in 1995 on the "once and future Republic of Texas"; has appeared on a radio program affiliated with the Council of Conservative Citizens; and is a frequent speaker at John Birch Society functions -- the group has given him a perfect 100 in its legislative rankings. These days, those who monitor CCC, David Duke, and Stormfront say they can't get enough of him. They know he's one of their own.

            •  The problem here is... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              TastyCurry

              ...there are two far right wing groups of loonies-the racist KKK type of crazies, and the Libertarian put your money in gold black helicopters from the UN are coming to take you away type of crazies.  Paul is clearly in the second group, but since there is a fair amount of overlap between the two, he frequently gets put in the first group.

              •  Why he gets lumped with the racists (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                ormondotvos, malharden

                He's lumped in with the first group too because his particular version of libertarianism seems to extend to allowing racial discrimination and intimidation by private individuals, even if he isn't visibly engaging in such discrimination and intimidation himself.

                •  EXACTLY. Ron Paul is despicable. (3+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  blksista, silence, shanikka

                  In the quote that Geotpf gives above to grant Ron Paul some sort of absolution, even what are described as his own words make me cringe.

                  At BEST Ron Paul is a Libertarian to the point of depraved indifference at the plight of minorities in this country. He may as well have been Nancy Reagan saying "Just Say No" or Ronald Reagan mumbling incoherently about blacks "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps."

                  I think most blacks who were socially conscious through that area recognize those words/views as being code for saying "we don't give a good god damn about black people. We won't take the time to piss on them, but we could care less whether they live or die." That depraved indifference is physically equal to stepping over a homeless person on the way to your limo.

                  Ron Paul makes me sick.

                  John McCain: Like Hope, But Different.

                  by malharden on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 06:28:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Give me a fucking break! (5+ / 0-)

        Liberty means free-market capitalism, which rewards individual achievement and competence, not skin color, gender, or ethnicity. In a free market, businesses that discriminate lose customers, goodwill, and valuable employees – while rational businesses flourish by choosing the most qualified employees and selling to all willing buyers.

        Yeah, because we all know that there would be no racism or discrimination at all if everyone was just left to their own devices.

        I'll give you a clue--this is code for "Go ahead and discriminate all you want and the government won't stop you."  That free market stuff is just so much bullshit.

      •  There is no room for racists (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blksista, shanikka

        N O N E

        It is not a false smear. Blaming an inconvenient truth on a minion is cowardly. This was his newsletter, his congressional newsletter. If he did not write it or read it or edit it, that tells me something about him too. But I don't believe he did not approve it. He is an MD. I do not believe he sent racist remarks out under his own signature unapproved by himself.

        A question arises from the 'blame it on the minion' defense: why does he surround himself with racists and more importantly, put them in key positions to represent his ideas.

        Tell me this:  open racists like the Klan and other genuine filth love Ron Paul, saying he represents them.

        If Ron Paul is such an anti-racist, why hasn't he, in all these years, denounced support from hard core racists?

        What is he waiting for?

        Methinks not doing so helps his image among those who are his base.

        If it walks like a duck...

        Wynton Marsalis:"Blues never lets tragedy have the last word." Fannie Lou Hamer: "What is electoral fairness?"

        by skywriter on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 09:25:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  More with Ron Paul? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TastyCurry

      This paranoid obsession with Paul makes no sense.  It doesn’t take a genius to realize that Paul is no threat WHAT-SO EVER to Democrats!  But he is a major thorn in the side of the republicans - especially NOW when a MAJORITY of their voters are beginning to awaken from their comas, desperately hoping to find someone – ANYONE, other than a Democrat to save them.  

      It seems HIGHLY likely that these daily  Paul diaries are being perpetuated by neo-cons trying to frighten computer savvy republicans into believing that Paul is associated with the dangerous wacko leftists at Daily Kos.   Anyone searching for information on Paul is certain to find an overwhelming number of hits leading here.  It really doesn’t even matter what the diaries say, because Rove & Co know that most of their rabidly deranged voters won’t read them - most will automatically assume that Paul is supported by Kos.  They have not been able to keep him out of the debates, although they make sure he gets very little answer time.   They know that all of their voters are being exposed to concepts that they almost never hear, or that they only hear from the "lying"Democrats.  They know that many of their voters are getting shocked into reality by some of this and they are desperate to counteract it.

      "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it." Robert F. Kennedy

      by enough already on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:00:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Christ (35+ / 0-)

    That's fucking outrageous. Maybe this will help put a stop to the Ron-Paul-is-our-friend meme around here.

    And what the hell is semi-criminal? Is a semi-criminal someone genetically disposed to commit a crime sometime in the future?