Daily Kos

Marine Testifies: All Iraqi Men are the Enemy

Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 12:21:38 PM PDT

Absolutely chilling testimony in the general court-martial of Marine corporal Trent D. Thomas.

Thomas was one of five Marines charged in the killing of an Iraqi civilian in April 2006.  Tasked with finding and killing a suspected insurgent leader, they were unable to locate their target.  Instead, they found another man, 52-year-old Hashim Ibrahim Awad, dragged him from his home, killed him, and then planted a weapon near the body to make it look as though he had engaged them in a firefight.  Five other servicemen have already entered guilty pleas on various charges resulting from the killing.

One of Thomas's Marine comrades testified yesterday that he saw nothing wrong with the killing.

According to Marine corporal Saul H. Lopezromo, the orders came down from Marine Corps officers:  "We were told to crank up the violence levels ... We beat people, sir." According to Cpl. Lopezromo, all Iraqi men are considered by Marines to be part of the insurgency.  The killing, he said, wasn't an execution; it was merely "killing the enemy."  Lopezromo's thinking may reflect Thomas' own.  The two men not only served together, but Lopezromo was one of the co-defendants in a prior assault incident arising from a patrol in which three Iraqi men were allegedly beaten, although charges in that case were later dropped.  

The thinking leads to horrific results: according to Lopezromo, the Marines in his unit routinely engaged in a practice he called "dead-checking."  Rather than take a wounded enemy prisoner and provide medical care, the Marines would fire rounds into the man to make sure he died.  "If somebody is worth shooting once, they're worth shooting twice,"  Lopezromo said.

This reasoning, of course, ensures two things: one, that the putative "enemy" will never have a chance to establish his status as an innocent noncombatant, and two, that the actual enemy knows that, even when badly wounded, he might as well fight to the death.  

Humane treatment of prisoners isn't something we do to tie our own hands, or just to make ourselves look good; it encourages the enemy to give up even before they've expended their last round of ammunition, and it encourges the civilian population, whose intelligence regarding the actual insurgents is often better than our own, to cooperate with our soldiers.  

That cooperation will be hard to come by when they know it condemns their countrymen to a second round when wounded.  It's even harder when, as the corporal testified, our soldiers regard everyone as "the enemy."

Tags: Iraq, war crimes, Rescued (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 16 comments

  •  Tips, flames, and comments (31+ / 0-)

    This is a chilling story, but a sad one, too.  We trained these kids to think of themselves as the good guys.  

    As Lopezromo showed, no matter how depraved their conduct, some still think of themselves that way.

    •  And they wonder why Iraqis support killing us. (0+ / 0-)

      If someone came to my country and did that shit I would gladly give my life if only I could take one of them with me.

      "Somewhere. Someone's god is laughing." - Three Days Grace

      by Intercaust on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 09:39:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Killing does not an ally make (10+ / 0-)

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    How do you know a Republican is lying? Ask one: If the Republicans can lower gas prices for 60 days before an election, why won't they do it all the time?

    by ca democrat on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 12:19:20 PM PDT

  •  War is tragedy (11+ / 0-)

    It's awful what it does to people. These Marines were once normal, healthy human beings. Now they kill without conscience. Maybe it's partly a defense mechanism for their psyche, to see everyone as the enemy, but it will do them more harm than good in the long run.

    Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.

    by Hannibal on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 12:35:50 PM PDT

    •  Sorry, this is NOT the result of "war" (4+ / 0-)

      This is the result of the new "Rules of Engagement" that the Pentagon developed after the fall of Baghdad. They were never made public and have been a closely guarded secret, but we've been able to get glimpses of what they must be like.

      For instance, if anything runs in front of your vehicle, step on the gas and run over it as quickly as possible. Kids hawking water, mothers with children, old people who can't get out of the way - hit them. They could be suicide bombers so don't give them a chance. How many of our soldiers now home wake up every night with the vision of the eyes of the pedestrians they killed staring at them in the terror of their last moments?

      Someday the actual ROE will be printed, and they will turn out to be evidence of a war crime: they will be the printed proof that our military classified innocent civilians as the Enemy and told our men and women to shoot them.

      These ROE were the way Fallujah was subjugated: all the adult men were shot. Wasn't this behavior the sort of thing that was supposed to differentiate us from the Nazis? Aren't we supposed to be the Good Guys, the ones that follow the Geneva Conventions?

      This isn't "war." This is pure sadism, ordered by Cheney and Rumsfeld.

      Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. -The Histories of Herodotus, Book 7, Ch. 49

      by Louise on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 04:20:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't think it is? (0+ / 0-)

        our old rules of engagement aren't followed in most wars that happen in the world. What happened in Rwanda was a war, what goes in in DRC is war, what's going on in Darfur is war, same with Colombia, what went on in Serbia/Bosnia/Kosovo was war.

        There's no real rules to war, except that people are killed, maimed, tortured, raped, beaten, and generally brutalized. It's how it's always been. Civillians are targets, just like the people who are armed. In fact, most of the time the non-combatants are preferred targets, they don't fight back.

        It's a mistake to think that war is a noble exercise. It never has been, and it never will be. It's the worst in humanity, let loose in full. The notion that we're better than that is a fallacy, but one that lets us sleep at night.

        Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.

        by Hannibal on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 06:27:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nobody is saying war is a noble exercise (0+ / 0-)

          But when the official Rules are rewritten so as to actually be in opposition to the Geneva Conventions, and soldiers are ordered to follow them, then the worst impulses are not only unleashed but encouraged.

          There is a categorical difference when the commanders are encouraging the troops to go out and commit war crimes as those crimes are legally defined, and when violent impulses simply rule the day.

          Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. -The Histories of Herodotus, Book 7, Ch. 49

          by Louise on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 08:08:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Louise, I'm sure you're sincere.... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            Hannibal

            but your ROE story is fiction.  I don't want to argue here...but there is no basis in truth for this story.  ROE's are violated, ROE's can lead to abuse, ROE's can provide an excuse or justification, but we are not using or promulgating ROE's like the nonsense you've mentioned.

            To avoid starting dumb wars, punish the dumb people who vote for them.

            by joesig on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 08:22:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Joe, what ROEs are we using? (0+ / 0-)

              You have more evidence than I can find; could you please give me a reference? I've been very interested in the topic since reading some testimony from troops entering Baghdad at the beginning of the war. Several of them were remarkably similar although they came from different units; for example, the "Floor it when faced with a jaywalking pedestrian" rule.

              Since the Pentagon would not make copies of the ROE available, it was easy for me to believe that they might be interpreted in a way unfavorable to the troops who must employ them.

              I am willing to accept that my suspicions are fiction, but would really appreciate some documentation to support my change of mind.

              Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. -The Histories of Herodotus, Book 7, Ch. 49

              by Louise on Fri Jul 20, 2007 at 10:34:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Prayer meetings every morning (6+ / 0-)

    Rush Limbaugh every night..this was Bush and his crusade and I think they drank a lot of koolaid. The message came right from the top.

    Think Tank. "A place where people are paid to think by the makers of tanks" Naomi Klein.

    by ohcanada on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 01:54:32 PM PDT

  •  Given the lies, (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rapala, Hannibal, dancewater, Ian H

    false premises, breaches of international law, treasonous behaviour, there is an argument to be made that all Iraqi males, females, and children are the enemy of this military adventure.

    And it doesnt end with Iraqis.

  •  Recommended (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ian H
  •  This is probably politically incorrect, but (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Logical One

    What happens to us Stateside when all these good guys come home?
    Timothy McVeigh was a good guy who came home, and then did not like how things were going, so he took action.
    I would not normally worry about this except for this story.  These rules of engagement can be applied domestically as well.

    No guillotines were used in the production of this comment. Come see us at Left in Alabama

    by herding old cats on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 09:06:54 PM PDT

  •  The fact that all men are viewed as (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Cecrops Tangaroa

    enemies is nothing new in this region or sadly in any war since WWII. Even before WWI and WWII the British (whom we seem to be emulating) found during their long occupation of this region that they had to treat all men in the region as enemies. This included the Afghani's, Iraqi's, Syrians, Palestinians, the "soon to be" Pakistani's, Kurds and more. This led the British to such innovations as the aerial bombing of Kurdish, Afghani, Pakistani, Iraqi and Iranian villages. Incidentally this also led directly to the development of civilian bombing strategies that were used by all sides in WWII. It is reported that many villagers in the region still hate the British for this. I wonder what strategies we have to look forward to after our attempt at imperial conquest?

    "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

    by shigeru on Sun Jul 15, 2007 at 09:10:42 PM PDT

  •  Howard Zinn and others who learned (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blueness

    from experience of war...they grew.

    Those who have been immersed in the tragedy of massive death during wartime, and who have faced it squarely, never allowing their senses and feelings to become numbed and indifferent, have emerged from their experiences with growth and humanness greater than that achieved through almost any other means.
    Elisabeth Kübler-Ross (b. 1926), Swiss-born U.S. psychiatrist. Death: The Final Stage of Growth, ch. 5 (1975).

    The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations is licensed from Columbia University Press. Copyright © 1993, 1995 by Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.

    Thanks for highlighting the important quotation about all Iraqi Men are the Enemy.....It reminds me of Vietnam War...Demonize, Brutalize.

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Mon Jul 16, 2007 at 12:55:42 AM PDT

  •  Yeesh. (0+ / 0-)

    I really hope this kind of stuff is extremely rare....

    Marines in his unit routinely engaged in a practice he called "dead-checking."  Rather than take a wounded enemy prisoner and provide medical care, the Marines would fire rounds into the man to make sure he died.  "If somebody is worth shooting once, they're worth shooting twice,"  Lopezromo said.

Permalink | 16 comments