Daily Kos

My Political Exodus

Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 04:54:01 PM PDT

This morning, there was a diary on the recommended list by a right winger, followed by a diary condemning said right-winger's diary. There were comments in the second diary along these lines:

why do you trust the good intentions of any conservative or Republican alive today?  They will always fuck you over for their political gain.

If I had seen or heard these types of things 8 years ago, I would not be the progressive democrat I am today. If I had seen people (rightfully) making fun of the hypocricy in right-wing hate mail and then seen the same types of things said against the right wingers elsewhere on the site, I would not be the progressive democrat I am today.

I have to admit, I was a Bushie in 2000. Follow me below the fold for the story of my exodus.

I am thankful that I was not old enough to vote in 2000... I turned 18 a year later. I am proud to say, therefore, that I have no votes that I regret.

I was only minorly interested in politics when I was in high school. I am the daughter of a (religious) conservative democrat and a disenchanted, apathetic moderate. I took the evangelical religious side of my beliefs, and that was the foundation for everything I did and believed in every other area of my life. I also watched my mom go through three bad relationships.

I remember watching the impeachment hearings against Bill Clinton. I was in my grandfather's living room, watching the vote counts. I watched the arguments, but I don't remember them. I just remember getting excited every time another "yea" came through. I literally jumped up and down cheering when they said that he had been impeached. The immoral bastard, he had cheated on his wife for Christ's sake!

When the Supreme court handed the presidency to George Bush, I was cheering again. I mean, if Al Gore were president, abortions would be happening left and right, and we can't have that! George Bush is a strong, moral, Christian man... he's the perfect leader for our country!

Then 9-11 happened. I was sure that Bush would get us through that time of crisis. He was so strong, so steady.. I just knew he would get the bastards that had done this to our country. I was 100% behind the invasion of Afghanistan.

Then came 2002. With 2002 came the announcement that we were going into Iraq. I was stunned. I was confused. I thought, wait a minute. We haven't caught Bin Laden yet. And even if he was really itching to invade another country, weren't most of the hijackers Saudis? Why were we bothering with Iraq right now? That was also the beginning of my intense interest in national politics.

Along with this coincided a very tumultuous time in my personal life, in which I began to doubt a lot of things. I won't go into the events that triggered this, but I will say that for a while, I gave up Christianity. I decided that there couldn't be a God, because if there were, bad things wouldn't be happening, to me or in the rest of the world. I came out the other side of all of this a very different person.

I came back to Christianity, but as a very liberal one. I now identify myself as a Social Democrat.

But if I had seen some of the things that I have seen today from the "tolerant, rational" democratic party, I never would have become a Democrat. Or, at least, not at that time... not nearly as soon as I did.

I guess what I am trying to say is that, yes, people can change. As long as they are being rational and respectful, as our right-wing guest was today, then we should welcome them, engage them in debate, get them thinking. If all we do is ignore them and/or turn them away, we will never gain any ground. Let's be truly tolerant. Many members of the right-wing are simply mis-guided and uninformed, just as I was. Let's make efforts to inform them when they make the effort to listen. Will we change their minds? Maybe, maybe not. But we'll never know unless we try.

Tags: democrats (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 46 comments

    •  You have blossomed. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TeresaInPa, flautist, rjones2818

      You have blossomed into a very beautiful progressive.  The kindness and thought that goes into your positions is amazing.  The most fascinating thing, to me, is that your caring attitude is never an afterthought, in fact, it isn't even a thought, it just comes naturally.

      I am a very lucky lefty. =)

    •  Your observations are exactly why... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      TracieLynn, flautist

      I am just about ready to give up being a semi-regular on DailyKos.

      Oh, and belated welcome to the reality based community, from one of the more geezerly members.

      •  Let me just say that lots of ... (7+ / 0-)

        ...good organizations/movements are destroyed when the good, rationale, thoughtful people surrender to a small percentage of irrational screamers and leave. What's left behind is a higher percentage of screamers, and the cycle continues. So, as I have done scores of times in the past few years, I urge you - one of the good, rationale, thoughtful people - to stick around.

        I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

        by Meteor Blades on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:03:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Everyone has a GBCW diary in them... (0+ / 0-)

          ...and you've gotta admit, mb, it's been getting increasingly difficult to deal with some of the nonsense around here.  Not like there hasn't always been - but every successful virtual community reaches a critical mass of self destruction at some point.  It's Lee's Third Law of Modems, or something like that.

          Ester Dyson nailed it some time ago, as did one of my early online mentors, Howard Rheingold (yeah, I belonged to The Well way back in the day...)

    •  There is one thing I have learned in the (0+ / 0-)

      more than a quarter century I have been politically active.

      I cannot and will not ever trust any Republican, Conservative, or self described Libertarian.

      Not one.

      Not ever.

      I've been fucked ove too many times to ever tust one again. They are my enemies, plain and simple. I did not ask fo this war and started out much like you, bnut these abstards decalred war on me, made me their enemioes, and suggest shit like I am a taitor because I call them on their foolish bullshit. Fine, they declared war on me, they are my enemies forever. My time in political activism has taught me your sort of naive approach to politics gets you killed or worse.

      No way will I ever tust one. Never.

      Flame away.

      Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

      - Albert Einstein

      by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:23:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A quote from a naive person.... (0+ / 0-)

        "Be the change you want to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi

        •  What was the outcome there? (0+ / 0-)

          Gandhi was killed by an assassin's bullet.

          If you think these bastards are going to go quietly into the night, look to 1968.

          King - Assasinated

          Kennedy - Assasinated

          Nixon - Elected

          This nation is on a fast track to violent confrontation, and it was started by the right. If I don't miss my guess about them, 2008 will make 1968 look like child's play.

          My suggestion to all, BUY GUNS! The life you save mya be your spouse's or your child's.

          Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

          - Albert Einstein

          by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:41:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Outcomes (0+ / 0-)

            India of course is still under British rule.

            The Civil Rights Act was never passed.

            The Democratic Party never recovered from RFK's assassination and ran a pro-war candidate for president in 1972.  And we are still hopelessly regressive and under the control of the Hubert Humphreys and George Wallaces.

            Nixon, of course, served out the entirety of two terms and articles of impeachment were never introduced against him.

            People who were the change they wanted to see are sometimes killed by those vehemently opposed to that change.  Not everybody who is opposed to that change is so irrational and violent.  Peace, of course, can be achieved through diplomacy rather than violence and guns.

            •  Nice thoughts (0+ / 0-)

              but not born out through the reality.

              Nixon lead directly to Reagan who lead directly to Bush II.

              Show me the equality. Where are people truly judged only by the content of their character?

              Is India today the Inida dreamed by Gandhi?

              Who is being naive?

              Nope, my cynicism levels are far too high. I was idealistic at one point and thought political ideologies could peacefully coexist in this nation, and in fact be productive and a better nation for it!

              The past six years have taught me that such dreams are just so much bullshit. Trust the right and you'll regret it. Plain and simple.

              Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

              - Albert Einstein

              by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 06:32:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  you and I know very well (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        RunawayRose, Jared Lash

        that in real life you have republican friends and neighbors and you get along with them just fine.  What good does this kind of ranting do?

        •  Nope, not a one (0+ / 0-)

          I have not a single Republican friend. Not one.

          I've met Republicans, and I ignore them.

          I have a Republican family member by marriage. We do not speak and never show up to the same family functions.

          I cannot be friends with a Republican.

          Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

          - Albert Einstein

          by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:53:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  It is a GBSW comment. (0+ / 0-)

          "Goodbye Sane World"

          •  No, it was thrust upon me (0+ / 0-)

            Every Republican I knew determined I was their enemy in 1998.

            Guess why?

            Yeah, that's right. I dared to make light of impeaching a sitting president over a blow job.

            Since then, those Republcians I had been acquainted with (They no longer considered me a friend after Clinton) determined I was a traitor for pointing out the obvious bullcrap of the Bush administration.

            So it's more of a wake up and face the political reality thrust upon me in the latter 20th and early 21st centuries.

            Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

            - Albert Einstein

            by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 06:15:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I will say this, though (0+ / 0-)

          I had Republican friends up until I was about 36 in the later nineties. I am no longer friends with those people.

          Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

          - Albert Einstein

          by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:54:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Good diary! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, flautist

    There are good core conservative beliefs, though they're not followed much by what we now consider to be conservatives.  Fiscal discipline is one.  Dems know that this is important now, while the Repugs have apparently forgotten it.  Discussion in a decent manner encourages both sides to examine each other's ideas and, hopefully, good ideas will be adopted by both sides.

    Don't blame me, I support Dennis! http://kucinich.us

    by rjones2818 on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 04:55:40 PM PDT

  •  Recmmended (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, flautist

    I have another take on this same issue, although I've been a liberal Democrat since I knew what it meant.  Link in my sig.

  •  You're just growing up (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, flautist

    with eyes wide open. Thanks for the diary. It's hard for me and maybe others to be so personal about our life and feelings. Much of our opinions come from life experiences. That's just the way it is. You're a great contributor with this diary. I decided I was "grown up" at age 27. LOL !

    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. Jerry Garcia

    by OrdinaryGal on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 04:59:52 PM PDT

  •  I always wince when I see someone claim that (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Firefly, highfive

    we shouldn't do something because "we are better than them."   No, we're not.  We are just on the other side.  We are all human beings and liberals are not by nature, better than all others.  We just have more belief in the potential of people to do good, and to grow, and in certain freedoms, that the otherside doesn't believe in (or so we think).  I wouldn't suggest basing your political leanings on people, but on what we try to strive toward accomplishing in a idealistic sort of way.  

    I don't believe that liberals hate rightwingers any less than rightwingers hate lefties.  We all have the basic same emotions.

  •  I commend the spirit of your diary. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, flautist, jgilhousen

    You're good people. :-)

    "It does not require many words to speak the truth." -- Chief Joseph, native American leader (1840-1904)

    by highfive on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:04:52 PM PDT

  •  i kinda think (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose, flautist

    that we should replace "conservative" with the word "jews" or "mexicans" or "germans" and see if that sentence is at all offensive. It's a mighty slippery slope when we we start painting all of this or that group with identical attributes.

    Partisan debate is toxic now, and as long as Bush is in office, and as long as we're in Iraq, it will remain so. But I think you've made your point in a most excellent way.

    All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

    by SeanF on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:05:50 PM PDT

  •  A good Democrat is a flautist. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    hhex65, Jared Lash, flautist

    A good Republican is a skin flautist.

    Barbara Jordan = the anti Pelosi

    by Ghost of Frank Zappa on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 05:21:21 PM PDT

  •  You have to beleive in the values ... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RunawayRose

    But if I had seen some of the things that I have seen today from the "tolerant, rational" democratic party, I never would have become a Democrat. Or, at least, not at that time... not nearly as soon as I did.

    You have to beleive in the values, not necessarily that you will agree 100% with some others who beleive in some of the same values you beleive in.

    And in a two party system, you are always going to have some people support the party you support, that you don't agree with.

    Tolerence and rationality are not a white / black thing. It is a sliding gray scale.

  •  you have to understand (4+ / 0-)

    many of us are a lot older.  We have been liberals for a long time.  We have been called names, accused of being unpatriotic, immoral, lazy etc etc... for a long time.  Our sense of justice was assaulted by the very things you cheered.  Impeached for lying about a blow job? More people in florid voted for Gore but they STOPPED THE VOTE COUNT!!!!  How is that democracy?  
    We have had a lot more slugs to the gut than you have, and out republican visitor likely can't acknowledge any of those very clear truths.  That is why many of us do not find it useful to bother talking to republicans aboout anything.

    •  LIKELY can't acknowledge (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RunawayRose, Jared Lash

      That's just it: Have you asked him? Have you engaged him in discussion, debate, or even argument? Have you let him know how you feel about those things? How do you know what he can or can't acknowledge until you give him the chance?

      I may not have been burned as many times as you in the political realm, but trust me, in my personal life, I have been burned more times and more severely than many here who are much older. I still believe in giving people chances. Not all people are bad, and as long as there is at least one good person in the world besides yourself, there is still hope.

      Call it naiive, call it stupid, call it cute... that's what I believe.

      •  Problem is, experience has taught us (0+ / 0-)

        you CANNOT engage them in disucssion, It's not possible.

        One can only beat one's head against a wall for so long before one determines beating one's head against the wall does nothing to change the wall and only gives you a headache in the end.

        Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities.

        - Albert Einstein

        by Walt starr on Tue Jul 17, 2007 at 06:35:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  not him in particular (0+ / 0-)

        but many many others like him. He's been lurking here.  He could chime in and admit the truth about the 2000 election.  Any number of republicans who post here could talk about it.  They don't.

    •  I don't know if flautist is still watching this.. (0+ / 0-)

      But I do think that it is because Democrats, liberals, progressives, socialists like myself, etc. have withered the onslaught by the regressive Wrong that we are wiser, better educated, better organized, better motivated than we ever have been.

      I know this site is a partisan Democratic site.  Fox News is a partisan Republican cesspool.  Stephen Colbert joked that Fox gave both sides of the argument: the president's side and the vice president's side.  I don't want to see DailyKos become the butt of the same jokes.

      Any opportunity offered by so-called troll diaries to show why we deserve to be viewed positively over any other partisan media-outlet, organization, or community is an opportunity that shows that we can handle dissent without hate, name-calling, and the same crap / broad-brush that O'Reilly was painting us with.

      That so many people on the site were willing to recommend the diary to get it on the recommended list should show that we are an inclusive group.

      Yes.  People are steadfast in their political beliefs.  But if we concede that we will never change anybody's mind, then we have created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      We fight for our beliefs.  We explain our beliefs.  We listen to others.  And for that, we are better off.

  •  agree (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    flautist

    i really liked that diary and was shocked to hear it was labeled a troll diary.

  •  The more you read the left you will become (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Jared Lash

    I started out being a Dem that did not know much and always felt that the talk about Republicans being pro big business was largely unsubstantiated and circulated by Dems to slander the Republicans.  The more you read the more left you will be if you stick to history that can be factually documented.

    Read General Smedley Butler’s "War is a Racket" and also how big money tried to get him to overthrow Roosevelt because they hated his "New Deal" so much.

    Read Howard Zinn’s "Peoples History of the U. S.".

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