Calling dKos out: Black Kos Week in Review

Each week for a couple of months dopper0189 has written a roundup with links to blogs and and other sources on issues pertinent to black Americans.

This is going to be short: On his best week, Black Kos Week in Review has garnered 47 comments.  The talking heads on cable news shows (Bill O'Reilly) totally energize this community, garnering hundreds (if not thousands of comments over a period of days), but Black Kos can't draw a crowd?  

Something's rotten in Denmark, methinks.  What say you?

•  Tips or flames?

  Or an actual discussion on the reasons for the lack of interest here?

  by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:21:59 AM PDT

  •  Good question.

    I've often wondered myself why we can generate 90 diaries a day about one loser commentator, or a 3rd party candidate/Iraq war mom, or 70 diaries about Ann Coulter or 30 diaries a day about impeachment...

    by Pager on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:28:02 AM PDT

  •  I think it may be the format of the diaries.

    I understand the value of "week in review" publications -- but it's hard to get a conversation going when 10-20 different news items get presented.  

    If active commentary is what dopper0189 is after, then I think a more successful strategy would be to pick one or two key controversial news items.  Add some commentary/insight -- make it thought provoking.  Different kind of diary altogether, but I'm not sure that's what dopper0189 is after.

    Oh well, my 2 cents.

    by DaveV on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:35:42 AM PDT

    •  I think you're on to something...

      I've read the diaries before and they present good information but there is a lot of it.  And it's a whole week's worth.  People here tend to respond to the news as it comes out and comment on one item at a time.

      I would suggest writing more than one per week on a specific subject. There are lot's of stories of interest to the black community and all of the rest of us that don't get much play here.  The Jena Six story is one example.  I'm sure that would generate lots of attention if more people knew about it.

      by cometman on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:54 AM PDT

      •  I'm pretty sure

        that dopper has said in his diary that other people should also do their own diaries, and no one (including myself) has taken him up on the offer.  Doing a diary every day would be difficult.  Perhaps you should do one.

        by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:56:41 AM PDT

        •  Well if you want to generate....

          more than 47 comments, you're barking up the wrong tree asking me to write one.  I think my record is somewhere around 17 comments, and usually half of those are my own ;)

          by cometman on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:13:05 AM PDT

  •  I can only answer for myself

    I read it most weeks, but usually don't offer comments because I wouldn't know where to start.  Also (pathetic but true, and I've mentioned this elsewhere): in a link-heavy diary, I often tend to follow links and then go on to other links and forget to get back to where I started.

    All of this is to say:  I appreciate the series, and I'm glad dopper0189 takes the time to prepare it each week.  Having just started down that road myself, I know how much work it can be.

    So not lack of interest, just lack of something to add to the discussion.

    by lineatus on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:20:47 AM PDT

  •  I have been eating popcorn and reading this...

    I have been enjoying both (yum)

    1. I just enjoy doing the diaries, so I do them even if they don't get rec's. I do enjoy getting rec's though :-) I just like the fact that people are reading them.

    2. I don't make jotters weekly list, but I have been on every daily (Friday) jotter list except once since I have been doing the diary.

    3. I have two targets with my dairy.  

    a) Some reasons for the lower levels of Black participation on dKos compared to the theoretical numbers of Black/Democrats/Progressives is that many Black people have commented on the lack of issues dealing with the Black community on dKos. So rather then talk about it, I decided to do something about it.

    b) I think that rather then complain about the how White people don't know/understand what Black people think, I should just give a quick easy "snapshot" into what Black people are talking about.

    4. I decided to call it Black Kos, because any other name seemed silly. I could have come up with a name like Ebony Kos, or African Round Table, ect. But I just decided to call a spade a spade, and call it Black Kos. It is about Black issues.

    5. I have a busy schedule, I work 50-60 hrs in R&D, volunteer in campaigns (I'm a Block captain), and I have a side business, so I can only do 1-2 diaries a week.

    6. I really hope people don't take the title "Black Kos" as being exclusionary. I never really thought about it, but I can see why. One nice thing about dKos is anyone can read, comment, or lurk on anything, so I hope people do it on this.

    My goals are two fold.

    1. I hope that the if a Black person stumbles on dKOS, goes to the search function, types in Black to see if the site deals with anything they are interested in, they will see interesting info. I hope to be part5 of increasing the Black traffic on dKOS.

    2. I hope if your not Black, that you can learn something. Isn't it nice that after reading a Black Kos diary, you can strike up a conversation with a Black person, on one of the stories you read? I was taught that part of being an educated person, is being a well rounded person. Consider yourself more rounded.

    Back to eating popcorn!!!!!

    by dopper0189 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 03:02:38 PM PDT

•  I'm Not Interested In

  Color Centric Idealism.

  We're not black or white.  We're people.

  .

  by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:24:41 AM PDT

  •  I assume Black Kos

    isn't meant as "Color Centric Idealism" any more than the Labor Series is meant as "Class Centric Idealism" or "Feminisms" is meant as "Gender-centric Idealisms".

    The diarist has a question.  Rejecting the question is one option.  Maybe not the most constructive for a conversation, though.

    by LithiumCola on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:29:26 AM PDT

    •  Just Me...

      Not trying to start a movement.

      If we're ever going to end the racial divide we're going to have to stop digging the canyon deeper.

      .

      by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:32:17 AM PDT

      •  And "Black Kos" is adding to the racial

        divide?

        Forgive me, that reminds me of how Republicans used to say that the feminist movement made it "harder" for women and men to talk to each other.  In fact, it was already hard, in that women weren't getting heard.

        I would much rather the current diarist had blockquoted something, or several somethings, as examples of what people are ignoring, myself, so we could have some basis for discussion.  Without such a basis I guess it might look like a general and therefore hard-to-respond-to complaint.

        by LithiumCola on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:36:10 AM PDT

        •  This Is The Point At Which

          People begin to hear what they're used to hearing in a discussion, and nothing else ... and where I cease to participate because of the futility.

          Have a good day.

          by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:37:57 AM PDT

          •  As you wish.

            by LithiumCola on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:43:35 AM PDT

          •  You didn't even read my comment, did you.

            I said the same thing you said, though with a different aim.  

            Without such a basis I guess it might look like a general and therefore hard-to-respond-to complaint.

            Well that's annoying.

            by LithiumCola on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:50 AM PDT

        •  I was hoping to point to Black Kos today

          rather than clip items for discussion here.

          But I'd give you a hundred recs for your comment that Forgive me, that reminds me of how Republicans used to say that the feminist movement made it "harder" for women and men to talk to each other.  

          by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:42:23 AM PDT

          •  I Can't Comment On

            How difficult it is to have to live with a republican woman.  I've never done it.

            by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:14 AM PDT

  •  Have you ever read one

    of these diaries? If you have, I wonder at your calling it "idealism."

    by palachia on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:31:30 AM PDT

•  Teacher's Lounge,

  What have you got to learn (or teach)

  Eco-Rescue

  You have to do the comparison to other "review" diaries.

  by LithiumCola on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:26:04 AM PDT

  •  jakbeau

    What are some of the AA political blogs you would recommend?

    by pamelabrown on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:29:11 AM PDT

    •  Until reading your comment below,

      I thought you were referring to Alcoholics Anonymous and wondering WTF???  Where did that come from?

      The comment below suggests you mean African-American.

      by lineatus on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:28:37 AM PDT

  •  I'm not sure what you mean by this?

    Could you elaborate?

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:33:22 AM PDT

    •  I mean LithiumCola's response

      What have you got to learn (or teach)

      Eco-Rescue

      You have to do the comparison to other "review" diaries.

      by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:34:48 AM PDT

      •  What he means is

        that comparing Black Kos Week in Review to anything meta is a false comparison.  He's suggesting that you look at other "review" diary series, like Robyn's Teacher's Lounge series, to determine whether this particular series is really overlooked, or if it's typical of a special-interest diary series.

        by Mehitabel9 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:37:40 AM PDT

        •  Why would Black Kos

          be a speical interest diary?

          by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:14:47 AM PDT

      •  I meant only that the problem of low

        response, if it is low response, might have more to do with the word "review" in the title, than with the word "black".

        In general, diaries that advertise as "reviews" don't always do so well.

        But, having said that, I'm not sure it's an adequate response to your concern.  You tell me.

        by LithiumCola on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:38:55 AM PDT

    •  Are there blogs run by and mainly

      frequented by AAs that you read?  What are they and why do you like them?

      by pamelabrown on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:36:26 AM PDT

•  dopper0189 does

  a really good job with these diaries and it has seemed quite odd to me that they don't get more attention.

  by palachia on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:29:25 AM PDT

•  Ya know, if you check out the diaries list,

  47 comments is actually more than prolly 75% of the diaries get.

  I'll give you this much: I'm sick to death of Bill O'Reilly and the amount of attention he's getting here, but all that attention?  It's not about him.  It's about DailyKos.  Navel-gazing is the number-one favorite thing to do on this blog.

  But nothing's rotten in Denmark.  Diary series -- even the best of them -- often take a while to achieve critical mass.  

  by Mehitabel9 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:29:46 AM PDT

  •  yep

    Here's a prime example.

    by decon on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:52:32 AM PDT

•  Black Week in Review does a fine job

  Of recommending AA blogs.

  FYI, I'm caucasion and teach in a federal prison where I see the huge disparity in incarceration of AA men.

  I'm not interest in "color-centric" politics either, but one would have to be either a fool or willfully naive not to recognize that racism is still the cancer at America's soul and that dopper0189 provides a point of view - once a week! - that can educate and strengthen all of us.

  by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:32:40 AM PDT

  •  I agree

    And one of the most important ways to close the wound between us is to learn to stop constantly reminding each other how different we are.

    Like my mother always said ... stop picking at it or it'll never heal.

    by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:35:12 AM PDT

    •  That's just ignorant.

      one of the most important ways to close the wound between us is to learn to stop constantly reminding each other how different we are.

      I'm sure many black people would like to do that but they aren't allowed to by our society.  It's easy for us white people to say "let's stop talking about our differences" because we don't ever really have to face those differences; we can go on living in our very white communities in our white-oriented society without ever having to face something like being a minority in a hostile landscape.  

      What we really need to start closing that wound is for white people to listen to what black people have to say rather than dismissing their concerns because we don't experience the same things.

      by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:41:37 AM PDT

      •  Ummm...Wrong

        I live in Detroit.  I know very much what it feels like to be a minority in a hostile landscape.

        I didn't say there should be dialogue.  And of course we need to listen to each other.

        We need to hear what everyone has to say.  Not just "black people."

        I recently had a one on one conversation with George Haley, brother of author Alex Haley.  He was giving me his opinion of what was wrong with young men in the city of Detroit.  He was saying that disrespect for elders was inherent in the Detroit black culture.  I actually took an opposite view ... because I LIVE HERE.  I've worked with young black men in domestic violence groups.  I know what many of Detroit's young black men say to each other in their most intimate and private moments.  And I disputed that the disrespect Haley cited was as rampant as he imagined.

        His response was, "Of course you can begin to speak for the black community."

        Shut me down like logging mill on a holiday weekend.  The discussion ... was over.

        That's not dialogue.  That's being blinded by color.

        .

        by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:30:09 AM PDT

        •  Obviously a Type

          The above should have read "I didn't say there SHOULDN'T be dialogue."

          by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:33:02 AM PDT

        •  Just because you live in a city

          that has a lot of black people does not mean that you know what it is like to be black yourself.

          And the rest of your argument seems to be "oh well, well they do it too!"  Not a very effective argument, if you ask me.

          by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 10:55:15 AM PDT

        •  I ask you again ...

          ... have you read this series?

          Because what you're talking about bears virtually no resemblance to it.

          by Nightprowlkitty on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 11:18:14 AM PDT

          •  Maybe if you ask me two or three more times

            I might notice you stamping your feet and demanding my attention.

            Not sure.  Worth a try I suppose.

            by Detroit Mark on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 11:36:31 AM PDT

            •  Heh.

              I was away this weekend and just now saw your comment.

              Guess you don't want to answer the question, tho I don't know why.  Wasn't a hostile question.

              And I think it was a question worth asking more than once -- you're criticizing a well-respected series here that has so little to do with the criticisms you're putting forth.

              Thanks for your attention.  Wish you would have answered a relevant question.

              by Nightprowlkitty on Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 06:52:35 PM PDT

    •  Have you read ...

      ... any of dopper1089's diaries?

      by Nightprowlkitty on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:43:52 AM PDT

    •  In a society still stratified by color

      Color needs to be addressed.  If we simply act try to adopt this "we're just people" idea that you mentioned earlier, it does nothing to solve the problem of people being marginalized.  Look at France.  Racism is a huge issue there, too, but very little progress is ever made because the nation seems to refuse to look at the problem.

      We need to talk about it, and need to have open and honest dialogue about what is going on with race in this country, and how best to address these issues.

      This isn't a scab that needs to not be picked...racism is an infection that runs so deep in this society, and permeates so many corners of it, and so many people are afraid to discuss it honestly.  More discussion is needed, not less.

      by pragmatic social dem on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:56:16 AM PDT

    •  The Issue With This Question is Who Gets To

      decide the difference between petitioning over present grievances and picking at the past.

      In any situation where there's been advantage taken, it's my experience that the aggressor side has to demonstrate its reformation for some considerable interval and let the aggrieved side decide when horse is dead enough to stop beating.

      In business that would constitute lousy customer service to say the least. When I deliver something to a client that doesn't work as they expected, I take it as a given that I'm going to lose more setting it right than is "fair" to me judged by the immediate dollar cost to the customer. There will be diagnostic time, apology time, and some shipping or travel inconvenience that are all above the point loss to the customer and I just have to suck it up and smile, and spend that money with visible enthusiasm, or that customer is going to trash my word of mouth sales for years to come.

      If we applied a fairly ordinary business customer service standard to our race relation situation --even setting aside issues like reparations-- we'd be looking at an order of magnitude greater obligation by mainstream society.

      by Gooserock on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:14:49 AM PDT

      •  Absolutely.

        I just read a book that talked about domestic abuse and one of the chapters talked about how the abuser had to make up for the abuse.  Basically, it would take years and years of apologies, years and years of demonstrating how they had changed, beyond the point that the abuser himself would see as "enough".  I think the same applies to black/white relations, except replace the "years" with "centuries" since it is centuries of mistreatment that we whites must account for.

        by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 10:58:49 AM PDT

•  To be frankly honest

  I'm not black, so I don't know if I should comment or not, and I don't check it out.  But, I didn't really participate in any of the Bill O'Reilly crap either.  If there was a Buddhist Daily Kos in review, I'd probably check it out.

  It's probably not racism, but it is a reflection of the (sad) fact that African-Americans are under-represented on the internet.

  by zenbowl on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:34:21 AM PDT

  •  But, should black Americans be under-represented

    HERE?  

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:35:50 AM PDT

    •  No!

      Black Americans should be here (and everywhere in the lefty blogosphere).

      Why do you think they're not here?  I'm really interested in your thoughts.

      by DaveV on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:38:39 AM PDT

    •  No, of course not

      If you think that more contributions to the black Kos diaries would be helpful, then I'll chime in.

      by zenbowl on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:40:09 AM PDT

      •  I do think more attention to Black Kos

        would be helpful.  As far as the comments that "Review" diaries don't prompt discussion, I don't think that's true.  I've often seen commentators choose one section of a review diary and run with it.

        by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:02 AM PDT

        •  noted, then

          I'll visit it more often.

          by zenbowl on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:03:46 AM PDT

    •  so are Hispanic-Americans, which are

      an even bigger demographic than AA --- I haven't noticed a diary series targeting that demographic, has anyone?? and does that make this site anti-Hispanic!!??

      by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:45:51 AM PDT

      •  I don't know

        What do you think?

        BTW, I haven't called dKos "anti-black." I'm more interested in the reasons for the lack of interest.

        by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:50:06 AM PDT

        •  that is your 'racism' tag, is it not??

          And I have no idea why folks choose to comment in any diary ---- I'm just the resident crazy cat lady here -- but just b/c we post more about cats, than dogs, doesn't mean we're anti-dog! that much I do know :)

          by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:55:11 AM PDT

          •  My 'racism' tag

            Informs my questions, that's true enough. But, I'm willing to be proved wrong and some commentators have given me a good deal of thought.

            Is it now verboten to ask the question?

            by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:16:57 AM PDT

            •  you were proved 'mis-informed' as you

              acknoweldge below --- you leapt before you looked -- I'll leave it at that.

              by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:28:09 AM PDT

        •  Don't assume it's lack of interest

          When I see these diaries, I read (or at least scan) them and recommend them. They tend to be posted at a time when I am running off to work (or at work), and unable to take time to comment.

          I read and recommend many, many more diaries than I comment in--usually because of time constraints or because I really don't know what I can add.

          by casperr on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:10:26 AM PDT

  •  really? blackplanet.com has 16 million,

    that's million! members ... I post there occasionally hoping to draw some folks here, but who knows?

    by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:38:09 AM PDT

  •  Don't let that hold you back...

    not being 'target audience' shouldn't keep you from at least reading diaries (& blogs in general). After all, as a culture we pretty much expect members of minority-group-of-your-choice to keep up on majority-group news/culture, don't we? It's been well hidden, but non-white cultures are some of the fundamental construction materials of our nation, historically and right now -- and denying yourself knowledge of them because they 'belong' to someone else is denying yourself an important part of our common heritage. And it plays into the cultural meme that the only news it's important to keep up on is that affecting 'serious' 'ordinary' people (i.e. well-off white folks).

    Just remember that you aren't the target audience, you're listening in on the middle of an ongoing conversation -- and so while it might be perfectly fine for you to jump in and start commenting, it also may be that the burning question that seems unanswered or  the point that no one else is seeing is a 101-level issue that everyone else is bored with. Most people will be patient with well-meaning newbies who are aware of their newbie-ness (and sometimes there's a FAQ or 'issue-101' somewhere that addresses your questions). It's less of a problem in threaded discussions like we have here than elsewhere, but someone who jumps in and tries to make the discussion all about them won't be welcomed (best case, they'll be ignored).

    The important thing is to listen -- and when talking, be aware that someone else is the expert.

    by TiaRachel on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:09:09 AM PDT

    •  Duly noted

      I've since visited the diary and commented, and I'll keep my eye out for future entries.  I found it good reading.

      by zenbowl on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:13:51 AM PDT

•  Ah! playing the white liberal guilt card, eh? ;)

  by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:35:28 AM PDT

  •  Not really

    But do truly wonder why a progressive blog like dKos gives such short shrift to a damn fine diarist.  Or are you saying that dKos is overwhelmingly white and just has no true interest in a black American point of view?

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:37:11 AM PDT

    •  there you go again! hehe .... and the

      demographics of this site are public info

      by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:39:13 AM PDT

    •  A damn fine diarist: Steve Gilliard

      From the DKos blogroll (Kos Alumni): Steve Gilliard

      The burden of evidence is on the other side. DKos shows every indication of giving fine diarists their due.

      by Positronicus on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:51:04 AM PDT

    •  I have an interest in the point of view

      But as a white person, I'll admit that I don't feel like I can add to the conversation a lot of the time.  (maybe that's a misperception on my part.)  In some ways, it's like reading bonddad or Jerome a Paris (when he's talking energy policy) - I learn a lot from the diaries and the comments, but don't feel that I can comment.

      by lineatus on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:37:54 AM PDT

•  Considering a lot of other diaries I've seen

  on issues that effect anyone who isn't white, that's actually quite a few.  Considering also that the only times I've seen more comments than that in a diary on non-white issues, it was because people who weren't aware of all sides of the issues were acting like they knew everything until the comments devolved into a long flame war.  I certainly wish there were more posts and more quality posts, but the truth is that so many Kossacks are white and oblivious to non-white issues, it's kind of amazing that he even gets that many in the first place.

  Also, I think it's silly to judge the attention a diary gets by how many comments it gets; they aren't the same thing.  There are a lot more lurkers than posters here, and I would guess that there are probably just as many people who haven't even registered but still read the site for information like that.  Hell, there was a diary on the recommended list the other day that had 19 comments.

  by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:36:23 AM PDT

  •  O.k, now this is food for thought

    Also, I think it's silly to judge the attention a diary gets by how many comments it gets; they aren't the same thing.  There are a lot more lurkers than posters here, and I would guess that there are probably just as many people who haven't even registered but still read the site for information like that.  Hell, there was a diary on the recommended list the other day that had 19 comments.

    Still, Black Kos has been weekly for a few months and there's just something in my gut that tells me that if we, as a regular posting community, can't generate more interest for it that we have, we're not so progressive as we indicate.  Call me old-school, but I'm still challenged by the racial divide.

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:40:15 AM PDT

    •  Oh, I thought

      that it was common knowledge that we aren't as progressive as we like to say we are! :)

      by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:52:18 AM PDT

      •  It's the Owner's Policy That We're Not as

        progressive as many of us individually are!

        by Gooserock on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:18:30 AM PDT

•  This week's edition of BKWR is

  here. Go. Read.

  What is the average number of comments that a diary gets? That a series gets? I agree that it takes time to build a readership -- but I also seem to remember that BKWR made the rec list a few weeks ago.

  I'm not a statistician, but I'd go look at the series' standings in jotter's diaries before yelling "rotten."

  by monkeybiz on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:39:55 AM PDT

  •  Can you give me the link to the statistics?

    That would be of interest and I admit up front and immediately that I wrote from my gut.  If I'm wrong, this community will tell me in no uncertain terms.  

    So, o.k., I'll look at the statistics.

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:45:30 AM PDT

    •  our jotter's the man

      jotter's diaries

      by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:43 AM PDT

    •  PhillyGal has it

      One of the nice things about jotter's high impact diaries is that it separates the number of readers, recommenders, and commenters.

      I also agree with the point about comparing apples to apples; there's a list of series here, though I can't speak to how current it is.

      P.S. Please add today's BKWR to your diary so folks can  go read it.

      by monkeybiz on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:56:37 AM PDT

      •  harumph! my Pootie Diaries? ignored :( sigh

        by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:01:19 AM PDT

      •  I don't know how to link to other diaries

        But don't you think people could just do a search, since Black Kos Week in Review is scrolling off today's list with 3, count 'em, 3 comments?

        by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:10:19 AM PDT

        •  Here's how to do it:

          Auto Format.

          by monkeybiz on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:28:18 AM PDT

        •  serch & human interface design

          doing a search takes several actions and some extra input. That's enough extra that a sizable percentage of people will skip doing that or think "I'll get back to it after I finish here" and never do.  Links in the text are much more likely to be followed.

          Just the way humans work.

          by wondering if on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:42:47 AM PDT

•  I hope dopper sees this ... diary;

  I'd be interested in his take

  by PhillyGal on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:42:29 AM PDT

  •  I've invited him over

    I'd be interested as well.

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:10:45 AM PDT

  •  I'm eating popcorn and reading the

    comments (yum)

    by dopper0189 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 02:31:45 PM PDT

•  Funny.

  This diary has gotten far more comments than most of dopper's excellent diaries.

  I read all of his stuff, it's just a great series.  And I don't read it because of the race aspect -- although that's initially why I checked out the series -- it's just excellent writing, picking out really interesting and thought provoking stories that I would otherwise miss.

  I agree with those posters here who suggest you make the comparison of this series with other series, not with meta diaries or the popular topic of the day.

  I won't get further into the "why" of this argument over lack of readership, but I will highly recommend that everyone read this series -- it's fantastic, original, and so well put together, not to mention entertaining.

  by Nightprowlkitty on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:09 AM PDT

  •  It has an undertone of meta. n/t

    by TheBlaz on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:52:17 AM PDT

  •  Great comment,

    Nightprowlkitty.  I'm getting my "flamettes" for not doing statistical research and am trotting off to do so, but you've described Black Kos in the positive light I should have used, along with my question.

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:52:25 AM PDT

    •  Jakbeau

      To clarify -- I'm not flaming you, just trying to provide useful, concrete suggestions for you to think about.

      FWIW, I'm part of a series here, and can empathize with  dopper's efforts to build a readership. It takes time.

      by monkeybiz on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:36:25 AM PDT

•  47 comments

  is a lot, considering that most people only post in the front page and recommended diaries. I'll bet most diaries written on this site get fewer than 20 comments.

  Plus, comparing a realtively newer series to meta is like comparing a freshman high school basketball player to a mutli-year NBA pro.

  Meta will nearly ALWAYS get more comments than anything else, using meta's popularity as some sort of "proof" or argument that this site is not interested in being progressive as it relates to black people is disengenuous. Not saying you're being that way on purpose, but trust me.

  by TheBlaz on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 07:49:25 AM PDT

•  Hmmm .... looking at Jotter's diaries

  by the week I can see that Black Kos hasn't made the list - at all.  But, I also don't see other "Review" diaries making the list either, so maybe the comments about "Review" diaries drawing so much less interest are correct.  If so, that makes me feel better about the lack of attention to Black Kos.

  I am also properly chastened about comparing meta diaries to Review diaries.  Point well taken.

  Still .... maybe I'm odd, but I just think a diary titled "Black Kos" should engender more interest, if only to ask for what dkossacks want from such a diarist (more analysis?).

  by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:05:35 AM PDT

  •  I've never written a diary

    but I agree with those posters who've suggested narrowing the number of topics per diary.

    Maybe title it "Black Kossacks:(highlighted story)"

    That way you can grab the attention of those of us with particular interest and you can focus the discussion to one story/trend/issue.

    The diaries that get the most views seem to be those with a singular focus-except for C&J which is great but not exactly a focused discussion.

    by dclawyer06 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:20:34 AM PDT

  •  Though I really like the review format

    that dopper uses, maybe everyone does have a point about narrowing it down to one.  In Feminisms, we have different diarists writing about different topics but it's only one topic at a time.  Most other weekly series seem to do the same thing...  Even What Are You Working On?, which is an incredibly broad topic, focuses on one aspect at a time.  This also has the advantage of giving everyone a chance to be a diarist on the particular subject and throw in their own personal take on it, and getting those who come on a regular basis to dialogue on different issues in detail.

    If dopper was interested in changing the format, or someone else (hint hint) was interested in doing a weekly one-topic race series, I think it could really build a following.

    by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 11:18:19 AM PDT

•  The Black Kos diaries are self-defeating

  in that they call themselves "reviews".  If dopper wants conversation, comments, and recs, he'd do better not calling his work a "review," because inherent in the word "review" is the idea that the author is going to do all the talking.  It makes it sound as though he plans simply to lay out some food for thought for us, without wanting much in return from us.

  Also, "week in review" diaries present too much information in one gulp.  I think they'd invite much more commentary if they weren't "week in review" diaries at all, but individual diaries that dealt with the individual issues as they arose.  

  Similarly, when something calls itself a "review," it is admitting up front that it is not really dealing with current issues.  And current issues really are the dish of the day at Daily Kos; getting a handle on today's ongoing issues is a major draw for people to Daily Kos, rather than reading a review of past events.

  Finally, I think the series somewhat marginalizes itself by corralling "black issues" into a weekly round-up.  By its own hand, the series becomes a sideshow, a corollary to the "real" action here on Daily Kos.  It's almost volunteering to sit on the sidelines.

  Bottom line:  I think the "Black Kos" diaries would do much better if they simply dealt with current, individual issues as they arise, rather than gathering them all up into a digest, which either invites people to skim them, or permits people to skip over them.

  by Loquatrix on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:24:00 AM PDT

  •  Ut oh

    Similarly, when something calls itself a "review," it is admitting up front that it is not really dealing with current issues.  And current issues really are the dish of the day at Daily Kos; getting a handle on today's ongoing issues is a major draw for people to Daily Kos, rather than reading a review of past events.

    I think you should look at Black Kos before you determine that dopper isn't dealing with "current issues."

    Finally, I think the series somewhat marginalizes itself by corralling "black issues" into a weekly round-up.  By its own hand, the series becomes a sideshow, a corollary to the "real" action here on Daily Kos.  It's almost volunteering to sit on the sidelines.

    I truly disagree with you on this one.  Why on earth would you call black American issues 'marginal'?

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:00:49 AM PDT

    •  Way to completely miss two out of my four points!

      Why on earth would you call black American issues 'marginal'?

      As I said in the quotation you reference, dopper is marginalizing them, by corralling them into a "week in review" diary, rather than addressing the issues individually.

      I think you should look at Black Kos before you determine that dopper isn't dealing with "current issues."

      I read Black Kos regularly.  And I am pointing out that dopper calling his work a "review" implies that these are not up-to-the-minute issues, which is a bad way to sell a diary to a community that values up-to-the-minute immediacy.

      Why would you ask for people's input as to why the "Black Kos" series of diaries isn't successful, and then patronize a good-faith respondent with this "Uh oh" baby talk like she's a silly child who just said something untoward?  Why would you solicit opinions, only to skim over a respondent's comments and consequently completely misread half of what she said?  Why would you go off half-cocked like that?

      It sounds to me as though you just want to lecture from the front of the classroom, rather than actually hear what anybody has to say.

      by Loquatrix on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:38:27 AM PDT

•  Maybe you should dedicate your next Bkos

  diary to an explicit invitation to dialogue about race issues.

  Part of the problem is that white people simply don't feel comfortable talking about race in a frank and interesting manner--besides MLK-era platitudes there isn't a lot that white folks feel comfortable saying for fear--sometimes legit--that they'll sound like an ignorant ass.

  by Geekesque on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 08:44:49 AM PDT

  •  It is MY Black Kos

    Read this diary first, k?  But I do agree with your analysis of "part of the problem."

    by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:01:43 AM PDT

    •  Ooops. It ISN'T "may" Black Kos

      by jakbeau on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:02:08 AM PDT

•  Well, here goes:

  I don't read it read for the same reason I don't read the "Kossacks Under 35" series.  I'm 46.

  And I'm white.  The fact that it's titled "Black Kos" sets it "over there" for me.  It's not that I don't care about issues that affect the AA community, either here or outside of here.  But the title feels exclusionary.  Not in a way that offended me.  Just in a "I hope their having fun in there" sort of way.  Like maybe the AA kossacks were giggling about white folks and their love of green bean casserole.  (Fabooj says that's on her list of "Foods White People Eat")

  Whatever, I'll stop by sometime.

  by CJB on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:26:39 AM PDT

  •  Just so you know,

    I have yet to see any series that is actively exclusionary of people who don't fit into it's specified grouping.

    Actually, that's not true, but the one series that I saw do that is now defunct in part because of that exclusionary attitude, and has been replaced by one that doesn't (or tries not to). :)

    by tryptamine on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 11:10:23 AM PDT

•  The sweet spot

  With 40ish comments, you've fallen right in the dKos sweet spot. Too many comments to be rescued with Diary Rescue, too little to make the rec list. That's where most established diarists find themselves (including me) and there really isn't much you can do. Keep writing. Pimp yourself in the open threads, try and get some subscribers, and keep writing. If you've lost interest, fine, but 40-odd comments is pretty good interest if you ask me.

  by fatbyjhnsn on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:31:06 AM PDT

  •  Don't know if dopper0189 is concerned about

    number of comments, but if so... One way to get people to comment is to respond to comments made.  I'm going from memory here, but it seems like he (?) doesn't respond much in the comment threads.  People are probably more likely to return and comment if they feel like they are able to engage with the author.  The response to this diary is a nice demonstration of the phenomenon.

    by lineatus on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 09:53:29 AM PDT

    •  I haven't been comment as much lately

      due to my work schedule. But I do get more comments, when I respond, but even when I can't respond, I still try and do the diaries.

      By the way I am eating, popcorn and reading the comments (yum)

      by dopper0189 on Fri Jul 27, 2007 at 02:36:52 PM PDT