DLC spin on Markos v Ford. Short, misleading.

I guess when there is not much you can say, and you know you did not come across with strength, honor, and integrity...then you bring out the spin.  

You take words and twist them into a whole new meaning.  Because if you are Harold Ford and the DLC that is all you can do after his showing this morning.  

Ford spoke tentatively and lacked conviction.  Markos spoke clearly and passionately.  What a clear difference.

If you have not visited the DLC's new Ideas Primary, you really should.  

Here's the write-up from that site by Marc Dunkelman. There is really not that much substance to the column, but look what he had to work with.

Recap of Ford v Markos on Meet the Press

The DLC’s Chairman, Harold Ford, Jr., did a terrific job on Meet the Press this morning, articulating exactly our message: that Democrats have an opportunity to build a sustainable, governing majority this year, if we reach out to the vital center of the electorate.

He also struck what I thought was the right tone, complimenting Markos, who represented the Netroots community which has brought so much energy to the Democratic party, but re-emphasizing how important it is that we focus on winning the support of swing voters.

An important correction for the record. Markos accused that the DLC of supporting the Bush tax cuts - we didn’t. See the New Democrat Dispatch from May 12, 2001, titled "The Senate Tax Bill: Better, But Still Too Big & Too Bad".

Keep that in mind when evaluating Markos’ suggestion that the DLC was somehow responsible for the Bush administration’s bungled reaction to Hurricane Katrina, or to the lack of investment in the nation’s infrastructure that led to the Minnesota bridge collapse.

Come on, Marc, I watched the interview.  You, sir, are rewriting reality.  But then that is nothing new for your group.

•  that actually made me chuckle

  geez could it be any more defensive.

  by Tanya on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:47:53 PM PDT

  •  It shows severe attitude problems.

    Like, ooh, someone isn't respecting us enough.

    You are right, it was almost laughable.

    by floridagal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:50:03 PM PDT

  •  I thought it was pretty conciliatory

    "Stop beating us up and we'll agree to disagree."

    by The Termite on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:11:16 PM PDT

•  That DLC crowd...

  Such cut ups!

  by inclusiveheart on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:48:27 PM PDT

  •  All six of them

    by greendem on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:28:09 PM PDT

    •  They recruited a noob?

      Good for them.

      by The Termite on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:10:41 PM PDT

•  Markos made me proud that I belonged

  to this passionate progressive Democratic community.

  by Gram E on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:49:06 PM PDT

•  Ok...so now the DLC is about the "center"....

  what happened to their being the "new kind of democrat"?  Not crazy about that, either, but it beat the hell out of saying "we're going for the so-so's".

  And on some issues, there just isn't a "center"....its either a spin for one side or the other.  And that showed through quite clearly today on MTP.

  by tjb22 on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:52:18 PM PDT

•  Here's A Link

  To the Article in Question.

  http://www.dlc.org/...

  by Edgar08 on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:52:48 PM PDT

  •  I followed through to a Blueprint

    from 2001, linked in your link. Gawd, that was a LONG time ago.

    What I see while surfing through that 2001 Blueprint is a DLC failure to recognize that the GOP never had any intention of compromise. Rove would have never honored any "deal" or "agreement" that the New Democrats may have reached with those Democratic leaders.

    The GOP plan was for permanent Republican rule. With some Vichy Democrats kept around for window dressing.

    You cannot compromise withe a shark.

    What we need to do is ERADICATE the radical Republican agenda, beginning with Alito-signing statements, and other things.

    by Bill White on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:07:06 PM PDT

  •  I just realized the link didn't show.

    Thanks for posting it.

    by floridagal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:19:35 PM PDT

  •  I know it's just a fragment

    of the debate from back then, But the way I read the linked article the DLC opposed Bush's tax cuts. Resigned to them in the face of Repuglican government, but opposed nonetheless.

    I'd like to see some support for Markos' point today, that policies supported by the DLC contributed to the W35 collapse. I understand how "starving the beast" Pug politics was a factor in the collapse - crucial infrastructure shouldn't be falling into the Mississippi River at rush hour or any other time, not should entire American cities be allowed to drown to save some rich fucks a few dozen grand. But according to the linked article the DLC agrees with me.

    All in all, this looks like a pretty strong counter to one of Kos' points. Call me a concern troll all you want, but I'd like to see a link to where the DLC placed "starve the beast" or "it's your money" memes above the common good.

    Seriously, I gag when I hear someone refer to "the vital center," but I'd rather apologize to Harold than have a gross misattribution of Pug memes shoved down my throat. How specifically has the DLC contributed to the 35W collapse and/or the Katrina calamity?

    by i m bobo on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:53:37 PM PDT

    •  An Apology

      The guy is probably still trying to convince people who don't know any better that Sen. Clinton voted for the Bankruptcy Bill.

      by Edgar08 on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 11:17:56 PM PDT

•  A new center?

  Looks like the country has become more liberal. Seems like the DLC is now right of center of the electorate.

  by BlueTide on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:55:05 PM PDT

  •  The Dlc is exactly where it has always been

    and the electorate hasn't changed much either. Wha thas changed is that unlike the 90's there is now a venue for the true center to be heard.

    by Tanya on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:57:23 PM PDT

    •  Good Point

      I once read a political science study which concluded that both Democrats and Republicans usually nominate candidates that are right of center of their political parties. This is true for all political offices. Conclusion: the government is more conservative than the electorate as a whole.

      by BlueTide on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:05:21 PM PDT

      •  which means there is no real opposition party in

        this country.

        by Tanya on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 12:47:01 PM PDT

•  Please

  use first and last names in your tags. Check on other tags using this nifty search tool and select from those used at least 30 times. They're the searchable, sticky ones.

  I added first names and swapped out Ideas Primary for Meet the Press.

  by CalifSherry on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 07:56:20 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for fixing the tags.

    I seldom post here anymore and just plain forgot.

    The Ideas Primary is their place to watch, though.

    by floridagal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:21:01 PM PDT

•  Reach out to the center? Sure

  But compromise our principles? No way, since I see zero evidence that "they' will compromise in return.

  When one side (only) compromises, its called capitulation.

  And for the record, I favor negotiated solutions but only if the other side will honor the deal.

  by Bill White on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:09:43 PM PDT

•  I watched it, and Markos outshined

  Ford, but, I also saw alot of respect for Markos, from Ford. Just like someone else commented after watching Markos, I too am very proud to be a member of this community. Thanks Markos.

  by bonesy on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:21:52 PM PDT

•  I watched it. Another DLC "lay-down"

  Markos seemed taken aback, surprised by the way that Ford started kissing his ass (seemed Ford was afraid to have a REAL debate).

  I was a little disappointed, being all worked up to watch some blood being spilled... but seeing as Ford wanted to just lay down, it ended up a gentlemanly exchange.

  And THAT's the PROBLEM with DLC Types like Ford--- they are JUST as willing to "JUST LAY DOWN" while the GOP Rightwingers RAPE them... and THAT's why we've been LOSING with the DLC candidates.

  They hate to fight, they'd rather "make nice".

  by John Poet on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:24:40 PM PDT

  •  You got it

    They hate conflict, refuse to engage the enemy no matter what's at stake, and put a premium on "getting along."  They are the reason the country thinks Democrats are weak.  Too many DLC Democrats on TV!

    by Mooncat on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:45:42 PM PDT

•  Short, misleading runs away from this exchange

  REP. FORD: And I'm one, too. There's no need to question my allegiance...We do nothing but help Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, John McCain and Rudy Giuliani when we argue essentially over semantics.

  MR. MOULITSAS: So will you go on--will you stop going on Fox News and attacking Harry Reid for abandoning...

  REP. FORD: No, but, but...

  MR. MOULITSAS: ...the troops...

  REP. FORD: I'm, I'm not...

  MR. MOULITSAS: ...betraying the troops?

  REP. FORD: I...

  MR. MOULITSAS: You just said that a couple days ago.

  REP. FORD: But, but, Markos, in all fairness, your site has posted awful things about Jewish-Americans. Your site...You--now you have a site up about...something about Cindy Sheehan, she uses it as a--she has a heavy presence there in talking about her run against...

  Fox News does not desire an honest compromise or to establish a moderate middle. A sensible goal in normal times. But not now, when the Radical Right wishes to exterminate the progressives, in a political sense.

  Harold Ford still has much explaining to do . . .

  by Bill White on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:30:44 PM PDT

•  I beg to differ, I think the more articulate was.

  Ford, and It is never polite to interrupt when some one else is speaking, I don't care who it is and Marcos did it a couple of times.

  How ever, I think it will be very self defeating if we start to turn the DLC into an enemy, and the hostility is already starting to show in Kos.

  by spinaltap on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:31:31 PM PDT

  •  When cornered on helping FOX attack Harry Reid

    Ford attacked Daily Kos with this:

       REP. FORD: And I'm one, too. There's no need to question my allegiance...We do nothing but help Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, John McCain and Rudy Giuliani when we argue essentially over semantics.

       MR. MOULITSAS: So will you go on--will you stop going on Fox News and attacking Harry Reid for abandoning...

       REP. FORD: No, but, but...

       MR. MOULITSAS: ...the troops...

       REP. FORD: I'm, I'm not...

       MR. MOULITSAS: ...betraying the troops?

       REP. FORD: I...

       MR. MOULITSAS: You just said that a couple days ago.

       REP. FORD: But, but, Markos, in all fairness, your site has posted awful things about Jewish-Americans. Your site...You--now you have a site up about...something about Cindy Sheehan, she uses it as a--she has a heavy presence there in talking about her run against...

    Do you condone what Harold Ford says, here?

    Define a reasonable middle ground relative to the above.

    by Bill White on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:41:38 PM PDT

    •  My definition here is very simple.....

      This is essentially a fight for relevancy between Kos and the DLC.

      Every thing else between the two matters not, the danger here is the perception by the wider Democratic base and flip flop voters.

      Marcus should take note of the historical record with these kind of "struggles", it is not on his side.

      by spinaltap on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:12:29 PM PDT

      •  if so we've already won

        but who's this "Marcus" guy?

        by esquimaux on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:45:37 PM PDT

        •  Lol, I can never say Markos.......

          But it should be bigger than one person, and it is not at the moment.

          by spinaltap on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:05:38 PM PDT

          •  well, we just disagree

            it is bigger than one person I think. This site isn't about Kos, it's about thousands of people with valuable experience to share.

            I haven't watched the video yet, but if the transcripts are right, Kos handed Ford his ass this morning. One of these guys is selling the same message that has been losing elections for years; the other has a new message that also happens to make good sense.

            by esquimaux on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:28:13 PM PDT

      •  They shook hands at the end

        and agreed to work together, didn't they?

        The Democratic Presidential candidates came to YrlyKos and didn't attend DLC.  relevancy was already decided, wasn't it?

        PaintyKat

        by PaintyKat on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 01:54:36 AM PDT

  •  The DLC is not the enemy and will never be

    The enemy are Republicans.

    Unfortunately, the DLC's strategy for defeating the enemy is to disguise ourselves as the enemy.  Which is profoundly silly, and must be opposed.

    by The Termite on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:13:10 PM PDT

    •  Termite, I agree with you. DLC is not the enemy

      But it is kinda like playing basketball with 4 good players and the coach's son.

      Sure, he wants to win, but if you want to win, you don't pass him the ball with 10 seconds left in a tie game.

      by Bill White on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:43:48 PM PDT

    •  Update, my snark meter was defective

      I think we agree . . .

      by Bill White on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:44:51 PM PDT

  •  Sure, he very articulately called us anti-semites

    Fuck polite. You wanna go on Fox News and put shit on our side, then expect pleasantries?

    Ford can take a running jump. In fact, it may be the only chance he has to run for anything competently.

    by HollywoodOz on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:11:14 PM PDT

•  Pravda reported on an international horserace

  An old joke:

  An world champion international horse race was organized with much hoopla, but in the end, there were only two entrants - one from the Soviet Union and one from the U.S.  The Kentucky-bred U.S. horse won easily.

  Pravda reported the results this way:

  "The glorious people's horse of the Soviet Union finished a close second, while the poor capitalist nag from the United States tragically finished next to last."

  by sxwarren on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 08:50:52 PM PDT

•  This is huge

  Notice that they are already positioning themselves as something other than the only philosophical alternative, which is a change.  The key word here is "complimentary."  It's as if Dunkelman is offering an olive branch and suggesting there's room in this town for the both of us, so to speak.

  Clear victory for Markos and the netroots.  Time to press our advantage.

  by The Termite on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:10:09 PM PDT

  •  Well, the tone is still there...

    the condescending way.  That has always been my problem with the group.  They have some great ideas, but they would rather do things their way.  And that puts the people of the party in the position of being a nuisance.

    If they lay off that for a while, keep Harold from going on Fox to agree with Hannity about how bad Democrats are...then there is room for being friends.

    by floridagal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:24:30 PM PDT

  •  You nailed it

    Time to press and now.

    by randallt on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 12:00:47 AM PDT

•  Dunkelman?!

  Didn't like him as co-host of American Idol either.

  by reef the dog on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:16:41 PM PDT