Daily Kos

Al Gore is NOT the Messiah.

Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:30:49 PM PDT

Don’t get me wrong.

I’m a huge Gore supporter.

He spoke forcefully against the war amidst the hysteria and fear mongering dominating the lead up; he recognized the necessity of single-payer healthcare; he endorsed Dean; he called for Rumsfeld and Rice’s heads in 2004; he gave a speech that stands as a modern treatise on constitutional governance; and he single-handedly put the climate crisis on the national agenda.

Al has, unquestionably, been our party’s most relevant leader during the chimp’s seven year reign.

But, however extraordinary, Gore’s just one man.

No one is more qualified or deserving of the Democratic nomination, but we can’t give him all the credit. Dean’s leadership, for instance, was pivotal in the 2006 midterm victory, and even then, the work of countless activists made it possible.  

Without our backing, Gore’d be powerless to confront the enormous tasks ahead; the forces of obstruction and reaction are too powerful. We need to impress on him that he wouldn’t be alone, and that, should he run, the netroots’ tireless work would extend past his attainment of the presidency to support for his initiatives, for they are our own. Anyone having read "The Assault On Reason" knows such a bidirectional democratic process will tear at his inner "recovering politician"—possibly causing a relapse.

Far more than a single election is at stake. 2008 presents a unique, fleeting opportunity not only to veer sharply from BushCo’s path of folly, and begin undoing its damage, but for realignment, for progress. This website embodies aspirations for a fundamentally equitable and freer country—and world—for ourselves, for our children, for our fellow citizens.

Only a vibrant popular movement—represented both in the halls of power and in civil society—can achieve these ends.

True leadership is not coercive, but persuasive and, above all, responsive – all of which is anathema to the present occupant of the Whitehouse. We are ready for a leader who envisions himself as an instrument of the people. Someone who trusts us, exhorts the noblest facets of our nature, knows how to marshal our support, demands all that we can give, and remembers that, in America, we are sovereign not he.
-- From my Open Letter to Al Gore

Al Gore is that leader, and he knows it.

The netroots has enough clout that if we’re serious about a Gore candidacy—not resigned to the possibility that he won't run—we could arrange some sort of meeting, possibly even here on DK, where we can directly assuage his concerns. That, I think, would be far more effective than ten petition drives.

More than half of this site consistently claims to support Gore for President. Let's make it happen.

UPDATE:

If you have suggestions for how to get him to actually post here, please discuss them below.

UPDATE 2:

Before and if you read too much into the title's religious language, look at my blogroll.

Tags: Al Gore, 2008 Elections (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 176 comments

  •  Tip Jar (41+ / 0-)

    I've you've not watched "Restoring the Rule of Law" in its entirety, take an hour to do so. It's an education:

    "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

    by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:31:00 PM PDT

  •  Gore / Clark '08 (8+ / 0-)

    I could complain plenty about Gore...but I don't know anyone better for the job.

    •  Why would you want to saddle Gore (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ferrofluid

      with another left foot?

      There is no shortage of very viable V/P candidates to run with Gore.  Candidates with real constituencies instead of cyber-space ones. The best one would simply be the man or woman that appears to be the most natural completion of the team.  That's one thing that Clinton and GWB got right (perhaps the only thing in GWB's case).  Gore/Lieberman and Kerry/Edwards were ackward.  Kerry should have gone with Gephardt which could have helped him in IO, MO and OH.

      What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

      by Marie on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:46:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Clark is not 'another left foot' (5+ / 0-)

        I have no idea what you are even talking about.

        Clark brings more international/national security credentials than any other potential running mate.  

        Gore/Clark would be unbeatable.  And Clark would be a great president in 8 years.

        •  That is exactly my Dream Ticket for '08 (8+ / 0-)

          We have 2 major problems that need immediate attention [and thousands of others that need to be addressed fast]: Global Warming and the Bush/Iraq Oil Theft War.  Gore and Clark are the 2 best qualified people to address these critical issues.

          "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

          by trashablanca on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:12:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            JekyllnHyde

            We can argue that Clark can have Sec. of State or whatever, but as Cheney has demonstrated, the VP is now a considerable seat of power.  It needs to be filled with someone with even more geo-political savy than Gore.  That person would be Clark. None of the other current Dem candidates come close.

          •  Global Warming & Peak Oil. (0+ / 0-)

            Iraq isnt a problem in Jan ;09, you just start pulling troops out. Problem gone.

            FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:47:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't think its NEARLY that simple or tidy. (0+ / 0-)

              But that's another diary.

              "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

              by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:48:54 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  LOL, yup. (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Autarkh

                I've done a few, some on IEC Fusion,

                But that's another diary.

                .... or 2 or 3....

                FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

                by Roger Fox on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:59:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Cool. (0+ / 0-)

                  Has Brussard managed to secure funding?

                  I'm personally following ITER more closely. In fact, Gore's position on fusion would be a great thing to clarify should he decide to liveblog here.

                  "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

                  by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 06:06:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  funding... ahhhhh (0+ / 0-)

                    Funny.. I had posted up at the oil drum.....  I then got an email from DJ White, exec Dir of earth trust....

                    http://www.earthtrust.org/

                    ....it appears they are talking.

                    I am part of a group that has developed an open source engineering project. We have assembled an engineering proposal for a next gen device based on Bussards last device, WB6. Its a bit of a Caddilac.

                    Same size as WB6, but more robust, stronger everything. Including LN2 cooling. Theoretically capable of operating with D~D fuel up to 30 minutes at drive levels of 65KeV. Also capable of burning Boron fuel, which theory says, there is a resonance spike between 50KeV & 65KeV where Boron fusion should occur.

                    Unfortunately the cost would be much higher than Bussards next 2 devices combined, WB7 & WB8 would cost about 5~6 million, our open source device would cost something on the order of 10 million, but its engineered to show

                    ~Steady state D~D fusion for 10's of thousands of seconds, not a few micro seconds.
                    ~P~B11 fusion on a scale of 100's of seconds.

                    Which for all intensive purposes would be dropping a kinetic strike from orbit on the ITER, and the entire Tokamak idea. I don't believe  Tokamaks will yield anything useful in the way of generating electricity.

                    5 or 10 million would prove or disprove the viability of Polywell fusion, if proved, production of 100MW to 500MW  reactors could be in mass production in a few years after proof of concept. The cores, at 9 to 12 feet, can be shipped by truck or rail to job sites.

                    I think its worth 5 or 10 million to find out.

                    IEC fusion for Dummies

                    http://www.youtube.com/...

                    IEC vs Tokamak fusion

                    http://www.youtube.com/...

                    http://www.talk-polywell.org/...

                    FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

                    by Roger Fox on Fri Aug 17, 2007 at 05:45:05 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  That's because you're a "Clarkie" (0+ / 0-)

          Gore is perfectly capable of functioning all on his own in the international arena.  Has been doing so for a long time.  He and this country don't need another former general out there representing us.  

          The last thing a second Gore run needs is to alienate the left again.  In 2000 the objection was to the Clinton policies such as NAFTA.  But US militarism and empire building was part of the equation.  Clark, for legitimate if possibly overstated reasons, is viewed as a war criminal by the far left.  

          Finally, why would we want to continue the Bu$hCo model of having the VP running foreign policy?  Let's put more of this back with State(and not in the hands of a liberal hawk like Albright or Clark).  Gore would need help on the domestic front, not because he lacks capacity in that arena, but because the messes Bush/Cheney are leaving behind are so many and so large.  Far better VP picks would be (in no particular order) Dean, Bradley, Edwards, Schweitzer, Kucinich, maybe Sibelius.  Or even Feingold although I would prefer to see him as AG.

          What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

          by Marie on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:39:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're joking, right? (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            JekyllnHyde, aitchdee, bythesea

            Clark will not "alienate the left" in any way that is "the last thing" that Gore needs to do.  None of your choices would be "far better", although Dean would be pretty good.  

            Gore would need help on the international stage.  Gore and Clark and any next-best person at State will need help.  Lots of it.  Things are really messed up.  We must have as much international credibility as possible in order to even hope to get through this.  Let your choices handle domestic stuff via congress.  

            I'm not against reinvigorating the State department, but we can have a strong Vice Presidency too.  I'm not talking about the VP coopting the White House like Cheney has done, but Gore was almost a co-president to Clinton compared to what the VP position had traditionally been.

            •  Should have said, "far left" (0+ / 0-)

              they'll be with us if we don't nominate a NAFTA, global free trader or war hawk for POTUS or VP.  They will not be with us if we nominate a man that they consider to be a war criminal for VP.  

              But it's a waste of my time to debate anyone that's concluded first that Gore is weak on foreign policy and second that only Clark has the necessary credentials to bolster him.  A little research might enlighten you to the fact that Kosovo wasn't the rousing success that Clinton and Clark have portrayed it as.  Clearly not the disaster that GWB has created.

              Disclosure - I don't trust any person that cannot or will not admit that Vietnam was another unnecessary and illegal war.  Jim Webb may be better than Allen, but his baggage will always lead him to side with authoritarians when it is a close call for him, hence his FISA vote.  Formative experiences in which a person has a vested interest in whitewashing is integral to a person's worldview.  Thus, someone like Colin Powell, who at some level knew that invading Iraq was not a good idea, went out and lied to the world to get that war on.  One word from him and support among the populace for an invasion would have plummetted.

              Finally, Clark is Clinton's boy.  A more likely VP for Hillary than Gore which would be a good reason for you to back her candidacy.  In politics today, a POTUS nominee would be wise to select a sympatico VP - mutual respect and fondness is more important than a laundry list of "pratical" reasons.  That was what was wrong with Kerry's choice.  The days of a VP to help carry a crucial state or satisfy insider party honchos are over.  Quayle was the last of that sort of calculation.  It's why Gore/Dean resonated with you.  

              What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

              by Marie on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:37:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well (0+ / 0-)

                But it's a waste of my time to debate anyone that's concluded first that Gore is weak on foreign policy and second that only Clark has the necessary credentials to bolster him.

                It's certainly a waste of my time to "debate" anyone that is so assumptive.  I certainly haven't concluded that Gore is weak on foreign policy.  Far from it.  So since you aren't even talking to me, I'm done.

                •  Both were reasonable conclusions from (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  BalanceSeeker

                  what you'd written.  It's a danger and constraint in making quick hit blog comments.  Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying.

                  What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

                  by Marie on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 07:21:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Marie

                    It's a hard medium in which to communicate clearly.  Sorry to be snappy, I had to leave my computer to be a dad.

                    I'll just say that my conclusions are based upon quite different perspectives than you seemed to think. No real time to expound on it now...maybe the conversation will continue elsewhere in the months to come.

                    Peace.

            •  ....really.... ? (0+ / 0-)

              Gore would need help on the international stage.

              FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:44:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I like Clark, but (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          JekyllnHyde, blueyedace2, Autarkh

          he'll be nearly 72 in 2016 for one thing, and Gore doesn't need a parental VP anyway.  Obama's a better bet for the [hypothetical] ticket; his charisma & optimism complement Gore's excellent judgment, and he needs the executive experience.  

          Generally I dislike the it's-time-for-new-blood arguments, but the flip side of that is that Dems could do a whole lot better at grooming & cultivating younger generations of talent, and considering the longer-term political implications.  The GOP, for example, has made a point of choosing younger batshit crazy justices, to maximize their long-term influences, while I fully expect that any SCOTUS picks we get will have no more than a decade of reliably good health ahead of them.

          "Conservative principles" are marketing props used by the Conservative Movement to achieve political power, not actual beliefs. -Glenn Greenwald

          by latts on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:08:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Just because somebody used to wear a uniform (0+ / 0-)

          doesnt make them supermen.
          Ex soldiers have spent their lives doing warfare, not politics, theres a big difference in ideas and means.
          Better to have somebody with years of Senate experience and has comparable mental abilities and a driving social concious.

          Morality is the single most important issue.

          by Ferrofluid on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:34:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Hey! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blueyedace2

        What's wrong with left feet? This is a progressive blog, no?

        "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

        by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:04:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The GOP is down but not out (0+ / 0-)

          why unnecessarily handicap ourselves?

          What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

          by Marie on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:48:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So... (0+ / 0-)

            are you saying that Clark is too left wing for the ticket, or that he will alienate the "far left" because  "they" think he is a war criminal?  You seem to be saying both, but perhaps I misunderstand.  As to the "war criminal" issue I can say that none of the leftist activists I have known have ever said or written that, though perhaps some do (news to me).  Also I think most people so far left as to consider him a war criminal are probably not going to vote for any Democrat.

            Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.67

            by bythesea on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:22:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The left-right formulation is okay (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              buhdydharma, Autarkh, bythesea

              to describe general tendencies or orientation of specific population groups.  It's somewhat weak when comparing and contrasting two people that inhabit the same side of the aisle.  For that you have to dig a bit deeper and understand something of their life experiences to get a clearer sense of drivers to their worldview.  Not sure that's clear, but maybe an example with help.  What's the difference between Justices Scalia and Kennedy?  Both conservative and Catholic.  They will agree most of the time, but knowing that Scalia is either a member of or flirts with Opus Dei makes it easier to predict how he'll rule in 99 out of a 100 cases.  Kennedy tries to straddle between Vatican II catholicism and a more "conservative" variant.  Thus he's less predictable on some cases and tries (not very successfully) to soft peddle his rulings on abortion and equal rights.

              Both Clark and Gore are southerners but not from the deep south.  Gore's "liberalism" has its roots in his parents' populism and that was rooted in the New Deal.  However, for many years, Gore struggled to balance that with being from TN as the majority in that state in the late sixties began turning away from populism and the Democratic party mostly for three reasons.  First, was psychological investment in the US military.  Second, the equal rights movement.  Third, tobacco.  The pulpits also began to become more politicized, particularly after Roe v. Wade.  At a personal level, he saw the price his father paid for his somewhat early opposition to the Vietnam War.  Thus, for many years Gore was more in step with the voters of TN than with his father.  The places that he found to safely articulate a more liberal orientation was on the environment and technology.  Thus, he wasn't a fully integrated person.  The outer shell of conservatism warred with a deeper or more archaic level or impulse towards liberalism.  What's interesting about Gore is that that outer shell has sloughed off layer by layer.  Al Gore circa 1992 would not have opposed the IWR.  We can postulate that how he lost in 2000 peeled off several layers by 2002 and more have been peeled off since then.  His son's accident may have taken off a layer or two.  I also suspect that a few came off during his tenure as VP, as Clinton added more layers of conservatism.  There was personal angst and pain for Gore with each step.

              OTOH Clark remains fully vested in the Vietnam War being a noble cause.  In a C-Span interview he was practically beside himself with delight in recollecting how the media supported the Kosovo intervention instead of how shabbily he thought the Army had been treated in Vietnam.  The institutional liberalism in the military from 1948 to the late 1990s was about equal treatment.  But the hierarchy and authoritarianism are strictly enforced.  It's why most career military officers are Republicans.  

              So how was it that Clark and Jim Webb switched to being Democrats?  What were the transformative, painful experiences?  Absent that, both of them have merely put on a new cloak -- wandered over to a greener pasture.  As late as 2001 Clark was still flirting with the GOP. Thus, their liberalism is likely fairly shallow.  Doesn't mean that it couldn't get thicker and both could have some deeper roots that they haven't gotten to yet.  However, both of them are getting pretty old for much more to happen along these lines.

              Now compare Gore to any of the Dixiecrats.  As they aged, they began shedding their New Deal, populism layers and became Republicans.

              This may be a total muddle.  It's like Lakoff's attempts to explain framing.  I understand exactly what he's saying but spent a couple of years enmeshed in learning theory and psychobiology in a psych grad program.  Whereas, to others it appears that he's simply recommending that the left change the language.  

                         

               

              What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

              by Marie on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 07:17:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Sounds like a plan (7+ / 0-)

    So who's going to make the call? When is Gore day on Dkos?

    •  If I had his number, I'd do it myself. (3+ / 0-)

      Maybe an organized letter writing campaign?

      I'm open to suggestions, in fact, that's the whole point of this diary.

      "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

      by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:36:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Here's the Gore Info (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blueyedace2, buhdydharma, Autarkh

        If I had his number, I'd do it myself.

        The Office of the Honorable Al Gore
        2100 West End Avenue
        Suite 620
        Nashville, TN 37203
        (615) 327-2227

        Kalee Kreider is Gore's staff person in his Nashville Office.

        Give her a call, Autoarkh, and convey our desire to have Al Gore consider doing what you've suggested in this excellent diary.  :)

        A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

        by JekyllnHyde on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:06:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thank God Gore's not the Messiah (12+ / 0-)

    He can run as a Democrat for the earthly job of President of the United States.

    If anyone could get him to post here, this place would go nuts.

    "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:34:19 PM PDT

  •  not (10+ / 0-)

    so? he is a smart, educated, thinking man and in this poltical climate that is about as close to a god as we are gonna get.

    now if you excuse me I gotta get my gore prayer rug out...

    Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses.. Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of deaths construction..........

    by pissedpatriot on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:38:44 PM PDT

  •  THANK YOU! (5+ / 1-)

    I, too, am a huge Gore fan, definitely my second choice after Obama, but the obsession with him here borders on cult-like status, at least with some people.

    Most Gore supporters here are rational and passionate, but some seriously over the top in their obsession, elevating him to some deity-like status.

    Barack Obama '08: Because a Generation's Faith in Government Depends On It. http://gudemocrats.blogspot.com/ Georgetown University Democrats Blog

    by klugerEsel5 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:39:11 PM PDT

    •  Blapshemer! (7+ / 0-)

      God gave his only son, Al Gore to us. He's our Lord and Savior! /snark

    •  I am sorry (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      JekyllnHyde, Dianna, kyril

      I just think that insult is over the top.  I don't think that is anymore true of his supporters than any other person people want to be president.  I don't think the supporters of any candidate deserve to be called cult like.

      •  Exactly. (6+ / 0-)

        I don't think that is anymore true of his supporters than any other person people want to be president.

        People love to draw distinctions about certain candidates and their supporters as if they don't do the same thing for their candidate.

        "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

        by 0wn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:05:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

        I can think of dozens of passionate Clinton, Edwards and Obama supporters on this site (well, maybe only half a dozen Clinton), who are very enthused and passionate in their support of their candidates, but there are some Gore supporters out there that treat the issue as if anything but Gore is simply 'four more years'.

        As to your TR, thats a load of bullshit, it was not a TR-worthy offense and if you really think I'm a troll, check out the UID. Stop playing Gestapo and get over yourself.

        I love Gore, if he gets in the race, I'll be torn between him and Obama, but the man is hardly perfect and the suggestion that he isn't perfect shouldn't be considered TR-worthy.

        Barack Obama '08: Because a Generation's Faith in Government Depends On It. http://gudemocrats.blogspot.com/ Georgetown University Democrats Blog

        by klugerEsel5 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:05:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  and... (0+ / 0-)

          but there are some Gore supporters out there that treat the issue as if anything but Gore is simply 'four more years'.

          There are some Clinton, Obama, Edwards supporters that feel the same way.  You're trying to draw a distinction between the supporters of a certain candidate that simply doesn't exist.

          I love Gore, if he gets in the race, I'll be torn between him and Obama, but the man is hardly perfect and the suggestion that he isn't perfect shouldn't be considered TR-worthy.

          Again, who is saying he is perfect?  Why would you feel the need to state something that obvious?  You could have also stated that Gore isn't perfect, without the religious nonsense.  I think that's what the original commenter was objecting too.

          "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

          by 0wn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:16:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I usually look for trolls in the comments (0+ / 0-)

          but I couldn't find it, so I had to look for the number & minus sign, that was truly a weird TR. I would never TR a comment like that.

          As a basic premise I hate mentioning ones UID, but in this situation I understand.

          That was a lame donut.

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:37:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i agree, typically pulling the UID is a cheapshot (0+ / 0-)

            happening upon a website first doesn't justify you in most circumstances. In this one I was simply using it to prove I'm not a troll (unless I've been lying in wait for this one moment for four years).

            Barack Obama '08: Because a Generation's Faith in Government Depends On It. http://gudemocrats.blogspot.com/ Georgetown University Democrats Blog

            by klugerEsel5 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:52:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Umm.. (7+ / 0-)

      Most Gore supporters here are rational and passionate, but some seriously over the top in their obsession, elevating him to some deity-like status.

      Get real.  It's no different than what some Obama, Edwards, or Clinton supporters do for their favorite candidate.

      "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

      by 0wn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:04:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think you misunderstood my diary. (7+ / 0-)

      I am saying, simply, that no leader, by himself, is going to get us out of our mess.

      If we think Gore is the best leader available, it's up to us to get him to run, and support him when he wins.

      One person cannot do it alone.

      "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

      by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:07:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But.. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        JekyllnHyde, la urracca

        The word "Messiah" conjures up religious framing and other right-wing frames about Gore.  That's the whole problem I have with the notion that somehow Gore supporters see Gore as the "Messiah".  We don't.  And buying into the frame that right-wingers use to belittle Gore is not helpful, IMO.

        "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

        by 0wn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:20:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not buying into the frame, I'm challenging it (7+ / 0-)

          ...as you just did.

          It's also a nice hook. Sue me. =)

          "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

          by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:23:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't see it that way... (0+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            la urracca

            You admitted below:

            ...but there's certainly a counterproductive messianic attitude which, I think, needs to go.

            Are you backing away from that statement or are you going to provide evidence that proves that statement?

            You can't go from saying you believe there is a "messianic attitude" towards Gore and then say you are challenging the right-wing frame because the only time I hear about the "messianic attitude" is from right-wing propaganda sites.  So, if you are challenging the frame, challenge it at those sites.  Why challenge it here where no one actually believes Gore is a "messiah"?

            "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

            by 0wn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:32:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm challenging that he IS the messiah... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              kyril

              ...and the very idea that of political leaders as saviors, not that he IS the best, electable potential nominee.

              The "messianic attitude" is my own subjective, anecdotal perception formed by reading blogs, articles, and talking to other Gore supporters. I stand by it.

              You may not have observed the same thing, but I've never claimed it that it was anything other than my own opinion. I'm an anarcho-fucking-socialist--about as far from a wingnut as it's possible to imagine--and I find the suggestion that I'm parroting rightist frames preposterously amusing.

              "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

              by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:41:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I'm Tempted to Trollrate You (0+ / 0-)

      but the obsession with him here borders on cult-like status, at least with some people.

      ... but I won't even though your assault on reason is astounding!

      During the past year, I've written as many Gore Diaries as anyone on this web site.  I hope you read this diary of mine in which I wrote about George Orwell's remarkable essay following Gandhi's assasination

      Saints should always be judged guilty until they are proved innocent... but regarded simply as a politician, and compared with the other leading political figures of our time, how clean a smell he has managed to leave behind!

      In denouncing Michael Savage's outrageous claims re: Al Gore, I wrote this in my concluding paragraph

      Just as Orwell was suspicious of Gandhi being elevated to sainthood, we Democrats don't think of Al Gore either as being a saint or a perfect human being.  But, compared to the rotten, lying, and incompetent demagogues and hypocrites that pass themselves off as members of a legitimate political party that you belong to -- and one that has done immeasurable harm to this country's fiscal, emotional, legal, and political health, not to mention eviscerate its hard-earned international standing during the Bush Years -- Al Gore is a remarkable human being.  And not unlike Orwell's characterization of another revered political figure, the "clean smell" of Gore's achievements and contributions to our political culture soars high above the putrid smell, dishonesty, and illegalities of your political friends who have degraded all things American.

      Does that address your concerns?  If it doesn't, I'm afraid nothing will.

      A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

      by JekyllnHyde on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:50:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  christ, i even said he was my second candidate, (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Autarkh

        but simply the suggestion that he isn't perfect or that his supporters are over the top gets you to threaten me with a TR?

        What is wrong with you? check the UID, I've been here since the beginning, I'm no troll, thats a load of shit.

        I love Al Gore, but people need to stop treating him as if he is and always has been perfect.

        In 1997 he championed the privatization of California's National Oil Reserve, and the subsequent drilling by Occidental that resulted in serious environmental damage and destruction to a sacred Indian burial ground. He was a member of the administration that instituted Don't Ask, NAFTA, and DOMA.

        The man was the first highly public official to come against Iraq and his work on the environment deserves him a Nobel Peace Prize, but there are some people on this site that treat the issue as if anything but Gore is just 'four more years' and thats is bullshit.

        Get over yourself, TRing me for that is a load of shit.

        Barack Obama '08: Because a Generation's Faith in Government Depends On It. http://gudemocrats.blogspot.com/ Georgetown University Democrats Blog

        by klugerEsel5 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:03:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Nothing you said in your post justifies the TR. (0+ / 0-)

          Uprated. I'm only sorry I didn't notice and do it earlier.

          Disagreement and debate sharpens our own opinions--especially when its civil; if we can't handle it, don't come to a political blog.

          "The opposite of a triviality is plainly false; the opposite of a great truth is another great truth." - Niels Bohr

          by Autarkh on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:24:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You Only Moderate Your Rhetoric (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Autarkh, 0wn

          elevating him to some deity-like status.
          but the obsession with him here borders on cult-like status, at least with some people.

          ... when people take you to task for it.  

          I explained to you patiently that in the numerous diaries I've written about Gore, neither I nor anyone else has, to the best of my knowledge, ever elevated Gore to "deity-like status."  Rather, in the example I cited above, he's better than most politicians in our party.  The top three declared Democratic candidates combined have a total of less than 16 years of experience as elected politicians -- which is 2/3rd of Gore's 24 years in the House, Senate, and VP's office.  That's not even counting the very important work he's done pertaining to the issue of Global Warming in the past seven years.

          If you make gross generalizations about Gore supporters, well, his supporters will challenge you.

          As a suggestion, make the best case for your candidate and then I'll respect your opinions more.

          A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

          by JekyllnHyde on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:31:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  great! challenge me! stick your tongue at me! (0+ / 0-)

            wag your finger at me! show me you ass!

            But TR-ing someone who has been around since 2003 because they insulted your bff is a load of crap.

            i stand by my words, i honestly believe a small, but noticeable, contingent of Gore supporters on this site act as if he is super-human and above any and all reproach.

            Barack Obama '08: Because a Generation's Faith in Government Depends On It. http://gudemocrats.blogspot.com/ Georgetown University Democrats Blog

            by klugerEsel5 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:51:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  It wasn't TR worthy, but (3+ / 0-)

          but simply the suggestion that he isn't perfect or that his supporters are over the top gets you to threaten me with a TR?

          Which supporters believe that he is perfect?  People are objecting to your use of religious language.  Such as:

          here borders on cult-like status

          some seriously over the top in their obsession, elevating him to some deity-like status.

          I have no problem with someone stating the obvious, such as:

          Gore isn't perfect.

          However, when you bring in talk of "cults" and "deities" you are going to get some objections.

          "My chief political consultant will be my conscience." - Theodore C. Sorensen

          by 0wn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:36:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  When the shoe is on on the other foot, (