Daily Kos

This Road to Hell was Paved by MBAs

Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:25:26 PM PDT

Over roughly the last quarter century, a once-obscure graduate degree has come to have a wide-reaching, if widely overlooked, influence on our society. The Masters of Business Administration degree, commonly known as an MBA, was once a rare and exclusive shortcut to upper management positions in major corporations. Now the degree is common throughout our economy and is a fixture of mid-level careers. What affect has this had on our nation? As you can guess from the title of this diary, my conclusion is that the rise of MBA culture has contributed greatly to our ongoing series of national fiascos.

We begin our story with a famous pulp writer who salted his works with criticism of American corporations and the culture they fostered...

John D. MacDonald received his MBA from Harvard in 1939, a year before he accepted a commission in the Army. MacDonald was impressed with the education he received, but he obtained the degree to please his father and did not put it to any conventional use. After service in the Far East during World War II, he moved to Florida, began writing pulp fiction, and established a career as a novelist. Most famous for his Travis Magee series, the characters in MacDonald's lesser-known work includes several junior executives, young men of promise, who feel trapped by their corporate careers and the lifestyle they are expected to maintain. These protagonists start down a path of self destruction and find redemption only when they buck the system and quit the jobs that are killing them.

Clearly MacDonald felt that American corporate culture was unhealthy and unsustainable, that it crushed our best and our brightest. To many readers, the finest moments in MacDonald's Travis Magee books come when the protagonist steps out of his role as hero and offers scathing indictments of conformity and the rush toward homogeneity in American culture, or attacks the rapaciousness of real estate developers in his beloved Florida. Magee's deep-thinking sidekick Meyer, MacDonald's tribute to the education he received at Harvard, is a retired economist who brutally dissects the narrow and misguided thinking that plagues business and politics alike and man in general. Meyer's perspective ranges from the biggest of big pictures to the intricate workings of market and societal niches. He is widely considered a stand-in for the author.

Economic orthodoxy in MacDonald's time was largely Keynesian, seeing vital roles for both the public and private sectors. Accordingly, MacDonald's analysis of our economy and related social problems, as voiced by Meyer and other characters, is critical of both business and government alike. He castigates businessmen for their short-sighted avarice and eagerness to corrupt the economic process, and he attacks politicians for their failure to understand economic issues and their willingness to be corrupted. He sees our economic and political systems as far too rewarding of greed, at the detriment of our long term social and economic health.

***

Fast forward to the 1980s. Economic orthodoxy has undergone a revolution. Keynes is out and Friedman is in. What is old is new again and laissez-faire capitalism is all the intellectual rage. If unfettered, the "magic of the marketplace" will solve all our ills. Business good, government bad. Where's the hotbed of this sea change in economic thinking? In our premier graduate schools, of course. And as fate would have it, an exotic degree offered by those fine institutions, a graduate educational track seeped in and fostered by the "new" economic thinking, is on the rise and will soon be exotic no more. The MBA has arrived and is taking over American business.

This is where your humble diarist enters the story. In the mid-1980s, I graduated from NYU with a bachelor's degree in economics and was hired into the Corporate Finance Training Program at Morgan Guaranty Trust Company, then the world's premier commercial bank. Morgan Guaranty came into being when J.P.Morgan & Company was split apart by the Glass-Steagall Act, a prime example of the government regulation all the Friedmanistas clamored against.

My training class contained about fifty people, about half of whom had graduate degrees, predominantly MBAs. I quickly noticed a difference between the MBAs and everyone else, an impression I corroborated with other non-MBAs. There were exceptions, of course, but by-and-large the MBAs were more competitive than the other trainees, quicker to anger, apparently under more stress, more rigid and doctrinaire, less open minded and less imaginative, and far less likely to joke around. They also tended to come from less affluent backgrounds, a modest start in these circles being upper middle class and expensively educated. (At the other end of the spectrum, our training class also included a Rockefeller, the son of the chairman of American Express, and some Europeans who had truly old money. I was the interloper, a scholarship kid who got in because he was good with computers.)

The MBAs were also predominantly Friedmanites, having been taught the new orthodoxy in business school. They would espouse laissez-faire, and I would argue that those policies had in the past led to the concentration of wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands, which divided our society, oppressed the poor, hindered the spread of information and ideas, impeded advancement based on merit, and was all around bad for democracy. The MBAs would get mad and say I didn't know what I was talking about, that "the economy had changed". Often the MBA would quote Adam Smith--which seemed odd, going all the way back to the Scottish Enlightenment, given that "the economy had changed"--and I would point out that Smith said the government's role was to maintain a level playing field. Then we would argue about what constituted a level playing field.

***

The MBAs began their take over of American business in consulting and finance, and as those fields were conquered, spread out into other industries. At first they were hired away from the consulting and financial firms they started with, going to work for the same corporations that had recently been their customers. As more MBAs entered top management across the economy, these new managers decreed that more MBAs must be hired, and the process reinforced itself. Hiring of MBAs spread out from finance and consulting across the economy as a whole. And how convenient it was for big business to have a new management class steeped in an ideology that made rapaciousness into an uncontestable virtue. Downsizing wasn't much of a moral problem when you looked at every problem though laissez-faire-colored glasses.

As the MBAs came in and took over, their common values gained prominence in our society, particularly veneration for "the magic of the marketplace" and cold disdain for all organizations and individuals who do not share that veneration. Little effort was made to learn from the old ways of doing business, few pains taken to adjust firms slowly to the new methods. It is a cornerstone MBA belief that all businesses are essentially alike and can be improved by the application of rigorous principles. And the quicker you apply the harsh medicine, the better. They saw American business as terminally ill and themselves as the cure.

MBAs are a subculture, and within that subculture the strongest strains emanate from the academic seats of power, the exclusive premier private institutions that educate our ruling class. They are much like any self-selected group, sharing an indoctrination experience (business school = boot camp), not quite as gung ho as the United States Marines, but there is a certain amount of similar pride and zeal and belief in their own infallibility. MBAs are by-and-large conformists, eager to replicate what is familiar and to eliminate what is new. And many of them feel superior to common mortals who don't have their great wisdom about the mysterious and all-important ways of Business. In short, many of them are self-important and lack the ability to think creatively. Which makes them dangerous. And their influence is everywhere.

Let's double-back, not quite to John D. MacDonald himself, but to his industry of employment: the business of publishing fiction. The arrival of the MBAs at the big publishing houses coincided with the rise of the MFAs among fiction writers published by those houses. To the MBA mind, people with credentials are better than people without. Why else would the typical MBA have added those three letters after his name? How to judge who is capable of writing good fiction? Obviously someone with an MFA has to be better than someone without one. Editors at the big publishing houses don't typically have MBAs, but they work for MBAs, and the marketing departments are run by MBAs. And in the publishing business today, marketing has at least as much clout as editorial.

It would be bad enough if the influence of MBA culture was limited to business, but it has extended beyond, into the public sector and our society at large. Long after I left Wall Street, I met people who worked in the library system at a major public university. One day MBA thinking arrived in the form of a new boss, and suddenly the library was supposed to become a profit center. Everything I heard about the new methods and modes at the library were straight out of the MBA handbook. The transformation failed miserably, because public institutions like universities and libraries (and governments--more on that later) cannot and should not be run like businesses. They exist to provide resources to enrich our civilization, not to make a profit on those resources. But although the new boss shortly left, the integrity of the library's holding were already physically compromised. Rare manuscripts were damaged because the budget for preservation was slashed.

***

MBA culture is the iceberg beneath the Libertarian ice cube. If Libertarians are the nerdy bookish oddball younger sister that no one wants to date, then MBAs are the brash bossy cheerleader older sister who gets elected homecoming queen, marries the captain of the football team, and has five kids that terrorize their small town. Out in public, the two sisters may pretend not to know each other, but they share the same bloodlines, and they both firebreath about "the magic of the marketplace". And as we all know, it's the cheerleaders who have all the influence. They may be happy to tisk-tisk and shake their heads when little sis gets caught saying something wacko again, but their thinking and behavior comes from the same dark place. And it's their world we're living in.

Which brings us to a former cheerleader who just happens to have a Harvard MBA. But unlike good old John D. MacDonald, this degree was minted in 1975, a year before Friedman received the Nobel, and after his economic sea change had transformed academe. I am of course talking about our president, George W. Bush, the man who once threatened to run the country like a CEO. Given how well those MBA-toting-and-hiring CEOs have been able to destroy major corporations, it looks like George made good on his intentions. From a management perspective, does the Iraq disaster differ greatly from the other grotesque examples of mismanagement that have rocked our nation? Hubris, incompetence, closed ranks against outsiders and nonbelievers, and a dogmatic belief in "the magic of the marketplace"--these qualities unite the great failure in leadership that has betrayed our nation. And our president is part of the picture, not as much an anomaly as he otherwise seems. This is, after all, the president who called for transforming America into an "ownership society," the kind of bland Orwellian phrasing with a subtle negative kick that could have been drafted by a committee of MBAs. The phrase tells us that we have now is less than full ownership, that we've got stuff coming to us--it's marketing that plays implicitly but directly to greed, the most insidious kind. Among the worst of the MBAs I met all those years ago, Bush would have fit right in. From cheerleader, to frat brat, to MBA, to running the country into the ground--it's all of a piece.

So what's my big final concluding point? Dogma is bad. Yeah, that's it, it's that simple. Any subculture or system of belief, be it as fundamentalist religion or MBA enculturation, that encourages adherence to a strict code of thought, that believes significant complex aspects of life can be tamed by simple rules, that discourages imagination, is toxic. Dogma kills. And the dogma swallowed by all those MBA students and pumped down into the veins of corporate America and out into the rest of our society is killing us all.

Fight the dogma!

Tags: George W. Bush, community, politics, economy, MBA (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 67 comments

  •  You know some of us have MBA's and don't (9+ / 0-)

    particularly care for such a hyperbolic title.  

    •  Where/when did you get your MBA? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      masslib
    •  That's right. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      masslib, brown man, rock the ground

      DePaul University MBA btw...

    •  Hyperbole... (6+ / 0-)

      ...gets people's attention.

      •  As I've Said Nine Hundred and Eleven Times nt (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        cometman, mcfly, hypersphere01

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:45:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  So our country is being strangled by (0+ / 0-)

        an Invisible Hand?

      •  wow we must be mind-reading... (0+ / 0-)

        Nice diary.  I have been raving to friends about the effects of MBAs on business leadership for the last year or two, and a couple of days ago sat down and started to write something.  And now your diary... essentially says the same thing as me.

        My beef isn't the degree itself, but rather the effect on business management by naive application of certain business practices by people who think they know what is best for their company based on their degree instead of actual experience.

        Specifically, I think short term capital management and investment schemes are over emphasized in the MBA curricula.  Partly this is due to the recent popularity of U-C economic theory, but also partly due to a bias towards viewing success in investment banking on Wall Street as generally applicable to other economic sectors.

        Hence, we see an attempt to force businesses into cutting to profitability as the main restructuring scheme employed by new management, regardless of the business sector which this is occurring in.  The underpinning theory is that only firms with the highest profit margin will be able to out-compete rivals for marketshare.

        While this may be sound business strategy in short-term investment capital markets it is still unclear whether it is a wise investment strategy in other sectors of the economy where long-term stability is an important factor in judging success.

        As an example I'll posit that right now cutting to profitability has been a disaster for the airline industry.  Consumer satisfaction is at an all time low and the sector is practically at the edge of collapse due to a lack of reliability.  Similarly, the original model of regulated monopolies for energy grids also appears to have been much more efficient for stable, and reliable delivery of energy for the nation than our current de-regulated model. Lack of planning has lead to inefficient development of a nationwide cellular network, and increasingly lack of central planning is having detrimental effects on our nation's freeways...

        Rather than blame the MBA itself, I'd blame the dogma that is taught as "best" management strategies to cadres of inexperienced future managers that ultimately will decide how to run our nation's companies.  

        •  I hope my diary... (0+ / 0-)

          ...won't disuade you from posting your own. What you have to say is easily different enough--being more concrete and specific to business and less broad-brushed and focused on cultural changes--to justify another visit to this subject. I for one would very much like to read more of your analysis. Now that I've thrown a bomb at the subject, let cooler heads prevail.

    •  Yes indeed. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      canyonrat, sbdenmon, rock the ground

      We've been through this before - lots of solid Kossaks are MBAs and directly involved in business.

      And these folks know that while there are clearly plenty of craven jerks like Bush (and the notorious headline CEOs) in business, most people in business -- even CEOs -- quietly do their jobs and are generally positive forces in their communities.

      Me? Yale MBA, Harvard Ph.D in a sub-field of business, former HBS faculty member, now teaching at another top-tier B-school. None of my 3000 former students has yet been brought up on charges, nor to my knowledge has led a charge to screw consumers, foul the environment, or employ slave labor overseas. They're good people, most of whom are just looking to have a positive impact on the world, through their interests in finance, operations, marketing, strategy or management.

      And not only am I an all-blue voter and an active board member on various civic & arts boards, but I was once a director of a well-known organization of environmental trouble-makers.

      Yes, CEOs and companies that break the rules or do social or environmental harm should be roundly condemned. Tarred & feathered, even. But we shouldn't slap the tar so widely that we condemn everyone else.

      John McCain: Getting Terrorists off America's Lawn since 1880

      by pat208 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:08:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And we shouldn't... (4+ / 0-)

        ...spare the tar when some of it needs to be spread around. The rise of MBAs in business and the return-to-laissez-faire orthodoxy they brought with them coincides with the rise of neocons in political thought, and both made odd bedfellows with the religious right, giving us the whole sorry episode of American history that we still suffer through. I see some blame there, for the MBA culture, some complicity. And sometimes you need to paint broad strokes to make people take notice. If I had written a balanced, reasonable essay, I doubt many readers would have given what I said much thought.

  •  It ain't that big a deal. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mcfly, pat208, sbdenmon, jessical

    Relax.  It's a degree.  So's a law degree, etc., etc., etc.  Hell, I imagine that if you take Masters of Library Science degrees all together, you'ld find some sort of collective-think.

    Dogma is bad?  Broad-brushing an entire category of degree holders is - dogma.

    •  Really? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      hypersphere01

      From Wikipedia:

      Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed or doubted. While in the context of religion the term is largely descriptive, outside of religion its current usage tends to carry a pejorative connotation — referring to concepts as being "established" only according to a particular point of view, and thus one of doubtful foundation.

      So my thinking on MBAs is already "established"? Wow, that was quick!

      •  That's Wiki's definition (1+ / 0-)

        Mine - which I just made up, since I did not have a need for one before this - is a rigid, doctrinaire adherance to a belief, not based on fact, but because it supports some grand cosmology in the holder's mind.

        It's a degree.  All this hyper language (they "took over" one field, "conquered" another) is silly.  A helluva lot of MBAs become the treasurers, accountants, CFOs, HR professionals, OA/OD pros, sales representatives, that our economy depends on and badly needs.  They work hard, they contribute, but somehow you decide that the best use of your time today is to take the broadest possible brush and call the whole blessed lot of 'em a bunch of moonies.

        Maybe that's dogma, maybe that's something else.

        •  Making up your own definitions... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          hypersphere01

          ...is a lousy way to communicate. I'll debate a point and you'll change the definitions of the words you used. How does that get us anywhere?

          But here goes. The MBA programs at the top universities injected a sea change of economic orthodoxy directly into fast track career positions at major corporations. From there, that new orthodoxy helped wrought the wreckage we have now, including Iraq. The "magic of the marketplace" was supposed to make the invasion pay for itself, remember? Whether they like or not, all those hard working folks you mentioned have participated in an educational change that has had negative effects on our nation. That doesn't mean they went out and screwed things up personally. But the thinking coming out of the MBA programs accelerated many of the problems the people on this web site want to solve.

          •  a "sea change of orthodoxy" (0+ / 0-)

            is an oxymoron, and an especially ironic one at that.

            The faux-pseodo argument that anyone with a particular degree, therefore "participating in an educational change", is somethow tied to the wreckage in Iraq puts me in mind of Churchill's "little Eichmans" comment.

            Lincoln learned law reading books and practicing in Illinois; now every practicing lawyer gets a JD degree, which I suppose in combination with rigid bar exams is certainly a "sea change of orthodoxy" in law, and now that effectively every senator and congressperson is a lawyer, and every bad decision the government makes therefore comes from lawyers, I can say that everyone who has ever studied law is complicit in everything from World War II to Watergate.  In fact, its vastly MORE rigid, since you can't even practice law without passing the bar.

            •  But you do not... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              hypersphere01

              ...necessarily have to attend a law school to pass the bar. Maybe the law varies from state to state, but I employed an excellent attorney in Virginia who read for the bar on her own. No expensive degree needed. And the change you described, from self instruction to a structured academic program, does not imply that the understanding of the law changed. So I don't see that any orthodoxy was transformed, just how it was acquired.

              A sea change is a transformation and orthdoxy is established belief. How is a transformation in established belief oxymoronic? If it wasn't possible, established belief would never change and we'd still be jailing people who say the earth goes around the sun. Which we might get back to soon.

              By "faux-pseodo" I assume you mean "faux-pseudo" which isn't oxymoronic but sure is redundant. I don't know Churchill's "little Eichmans" comment and I'm not going to do your leg work for you. If you want to reference it, link it.

              •  I type too fast (0+ / 0-)

                and not very well.  

                I see your point now on the "sea change in orthodoxy", but I do not think the MBA has brought one about.

                I'm not technologically able to link (it's probably easy), but it does not matter.  I think, or hope, that you at least see my point, which is basically that these broad generalizations are not just useless, they are in fact hurtful, directly hurtful to the people unfairly included and hurtful, ultimately, to the person who relies on them.

                It bothers me when people use hurtful generalizations, whether it's Jews, blacks, southerners, lawyers, Muslims . . . the list is very long.

  •  This was funny... (14+ / 0-)

    ...even if MBAs are (understandably) offended by such a broad brush. All I could think was that the road to hell was most assuredly not paved by MBAs; it was paved by engineers, who were fired by MBAs, and there is now a toll.

  •  I've Heard a Fairly High Level Author Saying (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cometman

    some of these same things a year or few ago--was it Kevin Phillips?

    I think it had to do more with a change in the way business was taught, not that business education per se was inherently bad.

    I recall the conclusion that America has a declining skill base that knows how to run business ethically and sustainably and wants to.

    Wish I could remember the author.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:43:45 PM PDT

  •  The CEO administration (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    The Raven

    Remember how they used to be called that? They would usher in an era of fiscal discipline because they were going to run the government like a business and not like it had been in the past... what a load of horse shit.

    Their business backgrounds motivated the Iraq war, in part. Saddam may have been a tyrant, but he had a good health care system and universities and he was starting to produce a prosperous social welfare society right in the middle of that hellhole otherwise known as the Middle East.

    Of course, the Iraq invasion more than took care of that. From Greg Palast:

    The neo-cons’ 101-page confidential document, which came to me in a brown envelope in February 2003, just before the tanks rolled, goes boldly where no U.S. invasion plan had gone before: the complete rewrite of the conquered state’s "policies, law and regulations." A cap on the income taxes of Iraq’s wealthiest was included as a matter of course. And this was undoubtedly history’s first military assault plan appended to a program for toughening the target nation’s copyright laws. Once the 82nd Airborne liberated Iraq, never again would the Ba’athist dictatorship threaten America with bootleg dubs of Britney Spears’ "...Baby One More Time."

    It was more like a corporate takeover, except with Abrams tanks instead of junk bonds.

  •  already knew this (0+ / 0-)

    masters of profit...  and totally lacking morals.

    Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating. --Brazil (1985)

    by hypersphere01 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:57:11 PM PDT

  •  MBAs are an easy target, but... (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    highacidity, mcfly, sbdenmon, jessical

    ... as other posters have already indicated, it's a broad brush argument.

    Our current Pretzeldent is indeed a Harvard MBA, but arguably he neither earned his admission nor learned much about business, leadership or management while at HBS.

    His own community of HBS alums had some outstanding and quite harsh things to say in the alumni magazine last year after alum Grover Norquist was featured in one issue. Check out my diary from that time; the alums took the opportunity to turn some very eloquent and forceful rhetorical guns on Bush & Cheney. To the letter writers, all Harvard MBAs, these Bushco guys represent the opposite of good public leadership.

    John McCain: Getting Terrorists off America's Lawn since 1880

    by pat208 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:57:51 PM PDT

  •  Hope you don't need medical care from (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jessical

    Dr. Oz, who certainly must be evil because he has an MBA degree.

    My Karma just ran over your Dogma

    by FoundingFatherDAR on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:58:06 PM PDT

    •  Many MDs... (0+ / 0-)

      ...get MBAs thinking that will help them understand the business challenge they face--getting paid by the insurers. Doctors are students by nature or they never would have made it through medical school and they think more school is the answer. I've heard those MBAs don't prove to be much help, given the unique nature of the medical business and its payment problems, unless the doctor actually attends a program focused on business for medical practices. My understanding is that doctors are generally better off sticking to medicine and hiring a manager or consultant to straighten out the payment mess.

  •  I'm with you, Tusconian. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    mem, hypersphere01

    In my experience MBA is more than a college degree; it is a lifestyle and a mind-set. Of course, it is broad-brush criticism, but the main point of the programs of which I am aware (Wharton, U of Texas) is exactly the kind of short-term, bottom-line thinking that underlies many of our current problems.

    I was in the Business Admin. program at UT for two semesters in 1963.  The end of the line for me was an "Industrial Management" class, in which I received a D.  I saw situations rather differently from the other students and the prof.  

    One example from a case-studies "Lab": some materials disappear from a room in a factory; there are only a few people who have reasons to be in that room during the workday; how do you determine the culprit.  During discussion, a consensus (minus me) emerges that we fire one particular employee.  The idea is that he may be guilty, but in any case it serves as an example to all employees.  My argument is that there is virtually no evidence to support the punishment, and, lacking that, we have no right to act in that manner.  I was a minority of exactly one out of about 35 students.

    •  I went into the heart of darkness... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      hypersphere01

      ...during the training program at Morgan Guaranty. We had to do a negotation exercise. I talked my team into putting their jackets back on, carrying their briefcases, and saying "No" to every request the other side made. We creamed the opposing team, winning this "negotiation" by a much wider margin than any of the other "winning" teams. It was stupid and ugly and I may have helped corrupt a few decent people just a little bit.

    •  The "M" (0+ / 0-)

      is for "Masters".  It is not a college degree.

  •  Hmm I have an MBA (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    canyonrat, mcfly, Tarindel, jessical

    As recent as 2004 and I think Friedman is an ass hack.  I wouldn't trust a free market any more than I would point a loaded gun to my head.  The biggest thing I got out of my MBA program was how to deal with people when managing them. I tried management and found it wasn't my cup of tea.  As with any group of people you will always have exceptions to the stereotypes.

    (-6.50,-6.00)Republican economics is not the solution to our problem; Republican economics is the problem - Harold Meyerson

    by clew74 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:17:00 PM PDT

    •  Thank you... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      canyonrat, hypersphere01

      ...for proving my stereotype wrong. My experience with the shared thinking among MBAs dates back to the 1980s and early 90s. Given how recent your MBA is, is it possible the economic orthodoxy has swung back the other direction some? I hope that's the case.

      •  I can't speak for how it was in the 80s (0+ / 0-)

        but there are plenty of MBA programs today that do not teach Milton Freidmanomics.  The emphasis today is on corporate social responsibility, the interests of all stakeholders as opposed to just profit for the shareholders, a surprisingly enlightened and moderate approach to labor-management relations, and several business cases dealing with non-traditional businesses such as non-profits and businesses founded on social responsibility.  Sarbanes-Oxley compliance and bookkeeping and accounting honesty are big emphases right now; so is environmental responsibility.

        The one area where MBA programs have gotten, if anything, worse, is the obnoxious emphasis today on treating globalization as an inevitable fait accompli.  MBAs get a constant stream of "global global global" right now.  Hopefully when the globalization fad is over they will drop this.  That aside, there is very little libertarian free-market dogma being taught anymore, although I suspect this may depend on the individual professors.

  •  I agree - MBAs are bobble-headed robot people (4+ / 0-)

    And yes, I've taken heat for expressing this view here. Every time, a few kossacks with MBAs show up and yell 'foul!' but we're talking about a stereotype here.

    I'm sure there are some great used car salesman and pharma reps in the business, too, and if there are, then they're likely kossacks in spirit if not the flesh.

    The way I watched it all go down, we used to place a much higher premium on a background in literature, the arts, the humanities, philosophy, and so forth. Accountants and bean counters were the drudges toiling in the office buildings after hours. The visionaries were creating music, writing books, discussing the direction of our culture. The humanities people were the majority of the civil service and government leadership, so we had value for the rule of law because these people had read Shakespeare, Locke, Virgil, Plato, and the rest of the western canon and understood Enlightenment principles and shared those values.

    An MBA is required to take 3 credit hours of business ethics.

    They are trained for one reason - management to generate profit. As profit for one company comes generally at another's expense, there's no "we're all in this together" spirit behind the degree. Rather, as the diarist points out here, the ethos is more, "nice guys finish last," and "I'm a winner!"

    When they finally took over government, industry, and everything else, we wound up with this: Wal-Mart culture. Plastic, strip malls, outsourcing to China, and HMOs. Ultimately, I ask myself, "What would a world without MBAs look like?" and the prospect doesn't fill me with dread.

    Every day's another chance to stick it to The Man. - dls.

    by The Raven on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:23:13 PM PDT

    •  Wrong target (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      brown man

      That is exactly the point of masters-level training for business leaders.  College-level majoring means devoting your college years to accounting or administration or something of the like.  Masters-level training allows you to focus on liberal arts or science or whatever in college, then pick up the professional piece after.  Of course, some do both, and they end up narrow, but that is a vice that is wide-spread and certainly not confined to this area.

  •  The typical shareholder (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    hypersphere01

    holds a vast number of stocks in a mutual fund.

    When people at company A get laid off, the other companies lose those people as customers and others frightened by fear.

    The increased profits at company A added to the portfolio are decimated by declines in sales and profits at other companies in the portfolio.

    The mutual fund portfolio doesn't grown anywhere near as fast if the people at company A were put to better use rather than merely hacked off the payroll.

    MBAs need to be trained to produce returns fully compatible with the interests of mutual fund shareholders.

  •  My ugly MBA story (3+ / 0-)

    I worked for a computer consulting company in the 1990s.  The company was originally founded to offer consulting services to Fortune 500 companies.  The owner was a great guy, but then he threw in with a MBA from the Wharton School.  Fast forward a year or two and I'm project lead on a major HR project.  The customer (one of our best clients) is starting to complain because the programmers we are getting for the contract are inept or if they aren't, they are constantly being pulled off to start other jobs for other companies.  At a meeting I complained to the CFO (MBA) who basically patted me on the head and said in a oh you are so innocent and stupid tone -- "We don't care about the clients.  We only want to keep this thing afloat until we can go public and rake in the millions.  You were employee number 27, you stand to make quite a bit of money.  I suggest you get on board.

    A month later I quit.  I took the client with me and I dared them to enforce my non-compete clause.  They didn't, they knew they'd already lost the client anyway.  

    Thankfully the company went public on the cusp of the dot-com bust.  I didn't loose a thing.  They lost their integrity.  This about sums up MBAs to me -- Mean Business Assholes.  Sadly, I have a ton of these stories.  

  •  Actually "Business" school is a waste of time (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Pam from Calif, hypersphere01

    It teaches people to be narrow-minded and bottom line focused.  It doesn't take into the humanistic aspects of business.  It teaches people to be cut throat and vicious and extremely undemocratic.  Look at the way companies have changed since the 1980s.  Treat your people like crap, cut benefits, ship jobs overseas, and for what?

  •  Bet it was a MBA at Matell who sent jobs to China (0+ / 0-)

    How's that working for them?  Recall on millions of toys, tons of bad press, store shelves stripped, parent = customers totally pissed off.

  •  Wow, haven't seen such envy since high school (0+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rock the ground

    Every MBA may have an asshole, but its a far, far, beyond-comprehension stretch to allege and generalize that every MBA IS an asshole by virtue of earning and receiving such a graduate, professional degree.  A MBA is good solid business training, and depending on the program, is also solid management training.  So, the rise of MBAs in the marketplace is arguably correlated with the unprecendented wealth creation, economic growth, lower prices and all sorts of operational efficiencies which we all enjoy today.

    But the education and experience has nothing to do with either the character or behavior of the individual.  I've met PhDs who are bigger assholes than any Harvard MBA I've known.

    Not every MD is a quack, nor is every JD an ambulance-chasing shyster. But every envious, spiteful churl is obvious, evident, and common.

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain.

    by dcrolg on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:22:55 PM PDT

    •  A number of the MBAs... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Alexander G Rubio

      ...I went through the training program at Morgan Guaranty with--the ones who preferred to hang around with us plebes since we were more fun--confirmed the bank's assertion that the program was equivalent training to an MBA. We covered the same material as the top-tier MBA programs. And it was a rehash for me too, since it wasn't anything I hadn't learned getting my undergraduate econ degree from NYU's business school. And I found both educational experiences rather lame. Management training? Call me old school, but I think good managers are born, not made.

      Oh, and as to:

      unprecendented wealth creation, economic growth, lower prices and all sorts of operational efficiencies

      We've been borrowing cheap money hand over fist from China and throwing it after stocks and real estate and blowing it on trucks and SUVs and jacuzzis and large screen TVs. There's your wealth creation and economic stimulus. Lower prices? Cheap goods from China. Operational efficiencies? Gee, I don't know--maybe that's the effect of all those computers we have running everything now? Speaking of which, a number of those MBAs I worked with never quite got the hang of computing. I'd go by their desk and it was hunt and peck, squint at the screen, hunt and peck, throw hands into air...

      •  You're overgeneralizing all over again. (0+ / 0-)

        Globalization, markets, rationalization of production, trade agreements, capital flows -- those are all moreso the tenants of economic and fiscal policy than of business adminstration.  

        I've seen MBAs drive good changes in businesses, create jobs and wealth. I've seen others where they are simply over-rated, destory jobs but create shareholder wealth -- am I sad for my neighbor but happy for my 401k or my kid's 529?. Economics, more than business adminstration, would provide an insight to such behavioral and moral conumdrums.  

        But again, in the end, I believe it all depends on the individual rather than the degree.

        Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain.

        by dcrolg on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:34:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  When the orthodoxy... (0+ / 0-)

          ...you were taught in graduate study at an expensive elite private institution tells you that government should stay out of economics and let businesses do whatever they want, that all regulation is bad and market forces, left to their own devices, will correct all ills, that monopoly is actually a good thing--that message influences people dramatically and shapes events. An individual who is greedy and amoral can rationalize pushing their agenda even further and persuade others to go along with it. An individual who has reservations about these ideas but is impressionable can be persuaded, or can persuade themselves, to do things they would not have done otherwise. And a person who disagrees with that orthodoxy will be inclined to get out of business altogether so they can keep their souls intact.

    •  Oh, I forgot... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      FLDemJax

      ...that you were really snide. I meant to address that.

      How did anything I wrote make you think I was jealous of -- I assume MBAs? Is that what you were implying? [Imagine loud cackling laugh here.] I've been in the belly of the beast, four years in corporate finance on The Street--and I hated it. There's no job on the planet that I want that an MBA would help me get. And if that wasn't true, the only obstacle to getting the degree would be enduring the boredom of all those business classes--again (see my other response to your comment.)

      But every envious, spiteful churl is obvious, evident, and common.

      Wow, italic and bold, I guess you really meant that last word. Funny, "common" kind of went out as an insult with the defeat of the monarchy. Do you realize how royalist you sound?

      Backing up, let's get to "envious"--dealt with that above.

      Then there's "spiteful." Believe it or not, I was trying to get at a truth, not malaciously attack someone. If I was feeling spiteful, wouldn't it be more effective to actually go after someone by name? Instead of just their degree? Very ineffective strategy it seems.

      Had to go look up "churl". You like those olde tyme insults, don't you? For anyone reading this who was born in a recent century like myself, a churl is a "rude, boorish person." Methinks you have an MBA, perhaps, and are personally offended? Awww... I'm so sorry!

      Then there's "obvious" and "evident". To my mind, when it comes to writing, those are good things. So I will accept your compliment and if I could think of anything nice to say I would return it. But I'm a churl, so nope, I have nothing nice to say to you.

      And that brings us back to bold and italicized "common." Wow, that still sound elitist.

      •  Common as your overgeneralization of MBAs (0+ / 0-)

        and as spiteful to a collective of individuals by virtue of a professional degree as a bigot is to an community by virtue of their ethnicity.

        As to the envious part, all I can say is it is counterintuitive for you to have obviously spent an enormous amount of time and energy on something which you now purport as lame and judging from your tone, neither does it sound dispassionate.  So, you write disparagingly, passionately and at length about something you admittedly don't have...?  Arguably, one may be inclined to believe that its evident and obvious it may be construed as envy.

        Not elitist -- observant.

        Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain.

        by dcrolg on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:11:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You have pretty much... (0+ / 0-)

          ...lost me here too. What have I "now purport[ed] as lame"? My diary? When did I do that? And if I "wrote disparagingly, passionately and at length about" having tatoos--something else I don't have--apparently you would assume that meant I wanted one. Observant? Your "observations" are baseless distortions. More like delusional.

  •  Accrediting agencies for MBA programs (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    hypersphere01

    should require comprehensive and effective training in growing a business without laying off employees.

  •  That's an excellent analysis and I'd add (3+ / 0-)

    The MBA culture is the extreme, or backlash, against 60s welfare culture. MBA culture is creating an artificial American aristocracy, and it's a deliberate backlash against all public institutions or anything supposed to be about ' by the people' and 'for the people', which was the agit-prop of the 60s.  As you correctly point out, it's making public resources PAY.  

  •  Couldn't agree more. (0+ / 0-)

    As an M.B.A. holder myself, I couldn't agree more.  The good news is that there are finally a growing number of M.B.A. programs based in sustainable economics.

    Presidio and Bainbridge come to mind off the top of my head.  I wish I had gone to one of those.

    For another ray of sunshine in the midst MBA-land (the heart of capitalist darkness), check out  Net Impact.  All is not lost.

    "There is no business to be done on a dead planet." - David Brower

    by Break On Through on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:49:51 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Break On Through

      ...seeing through my hyperbole to the message behind it. I appreciate it.

      •  Nice Discussion (0+ / 0-)

        I deal with MBAs every day as a technical consultant. They do get their heartless attitude from somewhere, and I'm not inclined to believe they were all born with it. What needs to happen is to recognize that real leadership comes from people with other initials (or no initials at all) after their name.  

        Pfft, I got everything I needed to know about that particular degree came from The Ten Day MBA. This got my mind in the right place to understand the creatures in their native habitat. The rest was easy, and I have a good, creative relationship with my friendly neighborhood MBA, my boss. Why she's head of IT is still beyond me, but hey, we can't all have everything we want.

        Stop rewarding bad behavior.

        by FLDemJax on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:46:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If you think me a bigot (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    brown man, Dewey Kneadleeders

    I'm taking some grief for being "bigoted" and my attidute toward MBAs is being likened to racial prejudice. To those readers I would like to point out that MBAs choose to become MBAs. It doesn't happen at birth. Equating my disrespect for the MBA degree with racial prejudice trivializes the experiences of those who have suffered real bigotry. An MBA is an adult who made a decision that I have attacked. How is that akin to a person being discriminated against because of the color of their skin? The two are worlds apart.

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