Bridge collapse notes: Engineers are baffled!

Bridge collapse notes: Engineers are baffled! An inspection OK'd the I-35W Bridge until 2020... 'From what I heard, engineers were working on the surface of that bridge - nothing to do with the infrastructure.' Homeland Security, rescue teams were at the scene within minutes. Quoting an MSNBC eyewitness: "It certainly looks like a bomb has gone off." Incidentally, there is a major thoroughfare in and out of Minneapolis and St. Paul -- cities now prone to a Bush bin Laden attack.

These tragedies typically arrive on the heels of a big day of Bush regime embarrassments. Wednesday's Bush woes: 50 people killed in a fuel tanker explosion in western Baghdad (142 lives lost nationwide)  followed by the largest Sunni Arab bloc quitting the government; six more US soldiers killed in Iraq; the CBO analysis that the Iraq war could cost over $1 trillion; hearings on the Tillman execution and cover-up; Rumsfeld rearing his ugly, lying head; Gonzales forced to explain the rearing of his, ugly lying head; a bill calling for a Gonzales impeachment inquiry; Bush seeking authorization to conduct warrantless spying authority from Congress; doctors condemning the forced-feedings at Guantanamo Bay in the Journal of the American Medical Association; controversy over Bush's $63B arms deal. And, all media coverage of these 'embarrassments' - each an impeachable offense unto itself - is now 'water under the bridge!' --Lori Price 02 Aug 2007

More news here.

•  That's an impressive list of bad news.

  But, it seems like just another day in Bushland.  Your list is no uglier than yesterday's, nor uglier than tomorrow's.

  As far as Bush's involvement is concerned, I know for a fact that he's not smart enough to do this deed.

  This story is worthy of the attention it's getting.  I don't think THIS is irresponsible of the MSM at all.  It's not Paris.  Or Brangelina.  It's something.  And Bush has nothing to do with it directly.  Indirectly, his policies certainly contributed to the failing infrastructure of our nation.

  by Patty O Furniture on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:01:11 AM PDT

  •  I never claimed 'Bush involvement' in the event.

    'As far as Bush's involvement is concerned, I know for a fact that he's not smart enough to do this deed.' <--I was making the point that whenever the Bush regime has an especially 'bad day' - with revelations that even the 5PM Friday afternoon news dump can't hide - political news is somehow, someway swept from the media landscape. <br>Lori Price

    by Lori Price CLG on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:54:09 AM PDT

    •  You try to have it both ways

      "These tragedies typically arrive on the heels of a big day of Bush regime embarrassments" . . . but don't say I'm claiming that the two are associated!

      by rock the ground on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 05:14:07 AM PDT

•  hmmmmm

  They're putting jackhammer in place of bomb in all the articles I'm reading in the UK media and this from the NYT.

  The eight-lane bridge on Interstate 35W, the main north-south route through Minneapolis, was being repaired at the time, and a witness told MSNBC that he had heard a jackhammer being used on the roadway just before the collapse about 6 p.m.

  Interesting. I had read about a plan to do in the Golden Gate on some tinfoil hat sites, but I took it for tinfoil static. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it's spun.

  by northsylvania on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:06:54 AM PDT

  •  Jackhammers

    I'm in construction and you could see the compressor equipment on the collapsed part of the bridge used for jackhammers, some areas that had the surface removed and other construction trucks.

    by nomoredead on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 05:07:29 AM PDT

•  HUH?

  You post an anonymous MSNBC eyewitness as saying it certainly looked like a bomb has gone off?  I mean really.  I live near the area and started watching the coverage almost immediately and nothing, and I mean NOTHING! suggested to me or any eyewitness accounts I was hearing that this resembled a bomb going off.  

  It has been less than 12 hours since the bridge collapsed.  Lets at least have an investigation.  Minnesota is not known for tin foily hatted thingies happening.  It is known for common sense.  Of course Homeland security and the FBI were there right away, it is what they do.  Oh, By the way the NTSB is showing up in the morning as well....better start looking for an air plane crashing into the bridge.

  I don't know who you are or what your expertise is but please....give this a few days before you throw crap around like this.  Good FSM!

  by pilotweed on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:14:05 AM PDT

  •  The quote was exact (MSNBC live coverage),

    ...but I did not catch the name of the person who said it; that's the problem.
    I felt that the quote was worth noting.
    Too bad there's no transcript of MSNBC's coverage of the event.
    Lori Price

    by Lori Price CLG on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:23:19 AM PDT

    •  Oh really

      If the quote was worth noting, I would think it would be worth noting who said it.  I watched 8 hours of coverage.  Most of it local.  I didn't see anything unattributable.  You are irresponsible.  I agree with you.  Too bad there is no transcript.  Are you located in Minneapolis?  If not then where?  

      by pilotweed on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:31:38 AM PDT

      •  Apparently, the Mothman said it n/t

        by PanzerMensch on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 03:15:51 AM PDT

        •  had to look that one up

          it fits.

          by norahc on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:36:05 AM PDT

        •  Who is the 'Mothman?'

          n/t

          by Lori Price CLG on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 08:55:19 AM PDT

  •  My mum used to say

    your bedroom "looks like a bomb has gone off" in it, but as far as I know, one never did. Of course that was before Al Qaeda terrorists killed the Boogeyman and moved in under my bed...

    by limaike on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 02:53:12 AM PDT

  •  Boy, do I agree with you

    Fox News has been trying their damndest to push terrorism on this all night. They are asking everyone, "Doesn't this look like terrorism"? It is the most irresponsible reporting ever. So far no one seems to be taking their disgusting bait. It is a shameful thing that Murdoch, who could do so much good in the world, choses instead to unleash evil on the world. There will be a really special place in hell for this man.

    by Overseas on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:00:38 AM PDT

    •  I can imagine the freepers are despondent...

      Once it was pretty much confirmed that this wasn't an act of terrorism.  No doubt they were praying that it was.

      by catnap1972 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:14:13 AM PDT

      •  Fox is right in there keeping

        their viewer base terrified. "It's too early to rule out terrorism." "Doesn't it look like 9/11?" What scum they are!

        by Overseas on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:19:29 AM PDT

•  I'm no engineer....

  But I figure that one of the first things that real engineers will consider will be whether or not the train traffic created vibrations that weakened the structure. It seems to me that the passing train, the traffic, and the work being done probably all contributed in some way to this specific disaster.

  BushCo, not so much.

  by Big Nit Attack on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:15:01 AM PDT

  •  The train tracks

    run underneath the bridge at this point.  The bedrock there is a solid limestone base so probably not due to train traffic, also very close to downtown so there is likely a very low speed limit there.

    by norahc on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:29:09 AM PDT

  •  I am...

    ...a civil engineer...but we can't do diagnosis via video tape, unlike some doctors.

    Sad to say, but today's news sounds very much like yesterday's news.

    by FWIW on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:37:50 AM PDT

    •  Me, too...

      ...and I concur with FWIW.

      by JeffW on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 06:12:49 AM PDT

  •  And the butterfly's

    beating wings.

    by SocioSam on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:42:05 AM PDT

•  the American Society for Civil Engineers

  said that it would take $1.6 trillion to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.

  Politicians don't notice things that don't give immediate gratification to the voters, special interests (e.g. developers), or themselves until something like this happens.

  This problem has been building for at least a generation.

  by alizard on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 01:25:56 AM PDT

  •  And they're whistling in the dark...

    ..."Why, that bridge has stood for years!" or "Those
    sewer lines were solidly built in the earlt 1900's".

    The numbers look good. But its how you look a the numbers. Several small problems may have added onto
    one another to create this disaster. You don't spend the bucks, enjoy the ride over the bridge, Mr./Ms.
    Politician.

    by JeffW on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 06:15:55 AM PDT

  •  The trillion$ go to Halliburton, KBR, and...

    Blackwater USA for Bush's Iraq war.
    Actual infrastructure repair will get no funding.
    Lori Price

    by Lori Price CLG on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 08:59:58 AM PDT

•  Hey, the Pajamabloggers at Freep are with you...

  To: RDTF
  absolutely islamic terrorist. They blew the span supports!! Stay off all bridges . Stay off bridges!!!!

  15 posted on 08/01/2007 4:39:11 PM PDT by Dutch Tulip
  [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

  ... kinda-sorta.

  They probably have some extra caps, too, in case you run out.

  by MyOwnClone on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 03:46:11 AM PDT

•  I'm and engineer

  Engineers are baffled! An inspection OK'd the I-35W Bridge until 2020... 'From what I heard, engineers were working on the surface of that bridge - nothing to do with the infrastructure.'

  To an engineer, this sort of uninformed stuff is amusing or offensive depending on the context.  For starters, engineers aren't baffled.  It's simply too early in the investigative process to draw any conclusions.  Lots of things can bring down a bridge, from a scoured pier support to a sheared bolt.  Nobody is baffled; engineers know what to look for and where to look.  Don't insult us.

  Second, engineers were not working on the surface of the bridge, AFAIK.  It was a construction crew doing seasonal redecking.  Redecking is typically a non-structural repair.  If I were to guess, I'd bet that was not a factor, but we'll see.

  Lastly, even without reading it, I'll state with confidence that the last inspection report did not okay the bridge until 2020.  That's not what bridge inspections are for, nor is it likely any engineer would make such an unqualified prognostication.  That may have been the next scheduled date for an inspection, but that does not imply a blanket certification until that date.  Also, it was reported in the TV coverage that the last inspection noted fatigue cracks in some members and recommended monitoring of those cracks.  So no, engineers did not say the bridge was okay until 2020.

  by rb608 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 03:56:37 AM PDT

  •  They are looking at flooding that occured

    within the last two weeks at that site. Also extremetemp. changes that have occured with in that time frame.

    by Owllwoman on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:09:34 AM PDT

    •  And a front with high winds

      went through at about the same time.

      by Overseas on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:23:36 AM PDT

    •  On bridges across rivers

      the smart money is always on scour.  I hadn't heard about the flooding.  I have no idea if an underwater inspection of the foundations was a part of the last inspection.  May have been superstructure only.  Pity, if so.

      Extreme temps are a maybe, though the bridge was certainly designed for that.  In conjunction with another problem, though (pre-existing cracks, jammed expansion joints, etc.), it could cause a problem.

      Without knowing what the bridge even looked like or where the collapse began, I have nothing but broad generalities at this point.

      by rb608 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:23:52 AM PDT

      •  Here are some "before" pitcures

        just so you can get an idea of the type of bridge.

        Before

        After

        by jigsaw68 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:35:06 AM PDT

        •  Oh, cantilever deck...

          ...any number of seemingly-unconnected failures in
          the truss might have combined to bring it down.

          No piers in the river, just like I thought.

          Those investigators got a lotta work ahead...

          by JeffW on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 06:20:53 AM PDT

          •  They had a concrete "expert"

            on the news last night and he was saying that there seemed to be a bigger gap at one end of the collapse hinting that there may have been a failure at the other end causing it to pull away at that point....he was quick to point out that no one could be sure until they got in there and actually crawled around in that mess.

            I think it will be some time before any official report is in.

            by jigsaw68 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 07:38:19 AM PDT

            •  Bogus, but I agree, sorta

              Don't see how he could visually compare the gaps at the ends inasmuch as one end dropped 30 feet or more.  But yeah, the end that hadn't dropped was showing a large gap, indicating movement toward the other end.

              That's also consistent with eyewitness accounts that the spans collapsed sequentially, not simultaneously.

              by rb608 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 08:39:54 AM PDT

          •  Not quite in the river

            From the photos provided elsewhere in this thread, it looks as though one pier is right at the shoreline, if not directly in the river.   I believe where it's located, it would still be subject to scour at flood levels.   Can't see the end by the lock, but it appears to be on land.

            by rb608 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 08:36:24 AM PDT

    •  Being right below the dam

      the flooding would be controlled by the spillway on Saint Anthony.  In 1997 they had to open the spillway and let the river run free there - the corps should have the CFpM rate available online somewhere for that dam.

      by norahc on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:30:21 AM PDT

    •  not aware of any flooding

      we've been unduring a drought here, so I don't know when/if there has been any flooding on the river.

      by PaintBoy on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 05:11:23 AM PDT

    •  Yes, but...

      ...this bridge was a long span with no piers in the
      river.

      by JeffW on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 06:18:10 AM PDT

  •  Oh, there you go again...

    trying to inject facts into the discussion.  Reality has a well-known liberal bias, after all.

    by lineatus on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 06:25:06 AM PDT

•  Lori Price

  as long as you are here, perhaps you can let me know how on earth I can get off the Citizens for Legitimate Government list.  I've been on it for years, and cannot seem to unsub no matter what I do.

  by KibbutzAmiad on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:06:43 AM PDT

  •  ?

    You can unsub (via automation)on the CLG website (www.legitgov.org), or send me an email: lori at legitgov dot org, and I will manually remove your email address from the roster.

    by Lori Price CLG on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 08:47:50 AM PDT

•  Just let me say in response -

  YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME!

  Delete this troll diary.

  by nightsweat on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 04:30:27 AM PDT

  •  Its a rant...

    ...not a troll. Give the kid a break!

    by JeffW on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 06:21:41 AM PDT

    •  Yes, I was in full rant mode!

      One has to admit, every time the Bush regime is in trouble, a mega-distraction sweeps the damaging news off of the media landscape.
      That was my point.
      You're not hearing the word 'Gonzales' today, are you?
      Thanks, Jeff W., for understanding the spirit and tone of this diary entry. Our group, Citizens for Legitimate Government, has been fighting the Bush dictatorship since December 2000 - we are not 'trolls.'
      Cheers,
      Lori Price
      CLG
      Citizens for Legitimate Government

      by Lori Price CLG on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 08:54:18 AM PDT

•  If

  If it was terrorism it will be covered up,
  only made for media foiled plots are televised.

  by neosleaze on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 05:44:16 AM PDT

•  Unfalsifiable statement

  These tragedies typically arrive on the heels of a big day of Bush regime embarrassments.

  george w. bush has a big day of embarrassments almost every week.  No matter when this happened, you could point to something that george w. bush wants to distract this from.

  I detest bush and all he stands for as much as anyone else, but I'm going with structural failure until we know otherwise.

  by Sura 109 on Thu Aug 02, 2007 at 10:02:42 AM PDT