Daily Kos

Why Don't I Hate Hillary Clinton?

Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:43:28 PM PDT

I have been reading and hearing about Hillary Clinton now for fifteen years. Since the year leading up to Bill Clinton's first inauguration as president, she's been a constant part of my world.

At first it was Hillary's hair -- or rather her headbands. It was Hillary's infamous intelligence, her education, her role as First Lady of Arkansas. It was her new hair styles, her quips (some on the right would style them 'gaffs') and her irreverent sense of humor. Then it was her audacity to take on a role larger than First Lady had ever encompassed: health care reform. "How dare she?" they cried. "Who does she think she is?" Finally it was her seemingly endless public humiliation during the neocon witch hunts into her life and, of course, her husband's sex life.

Like a phoenix rising from the ashes of her husband's presidency, there was Hillary, running for -- and handily winning -- a seat in the Senate. And now she is running for President, managing to simultaneously be more popular -- AND more hated-- than all the other candidates. Through all of this, I have never hated Hillary Rodham Clinton. I didn't hate her when she took money from Rupert Murdoch. I didn't hate her when she voted in ways I opposed vis a vis the Iraq war and other security and privacy issues. I didn't hate her today when she was quoted as saying that some aspects of "the surge" are working -- too little, too late, but working in some areas.

Why don't I hate Hillary Clinton? She's supposedly polarizing, and I don't always agree with her. But I've never hated her. In fact, I have a lot of respect for her good qualities: brilliance, tenacity, courage, dignity, energy, and yes, that stealthy, ironic sense of humor that gets her into trouble from time to time.

Most of all, I don't hate her because I understand that our next president will either be center-left or center-right. And God help me, I would give ANYTHING for our next president to be as many steps "leftwards" -- away from the neocons -- as our general electorate will allow. After 51 years on this Earth, I don't expect political miracles. But I desperately long for our nation to step back from the neocon precipice. I don't hate Hillary Clinton because I think she just might be able to yank us back from the edge, and undo much of the damage done by the Bush years.

Give me an "Eisenhower Democrat" over a Straussian Republican...please.

Poll

Do you hate Hillary Clinton?

18%37 votes
66%133 votes
5%11 votes
9%19 votes

| 200 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, 2008, Democratic Party, Dwight Eisenhower, neocons (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 147 comments

  •  Hmmm (5+ / 0-)

    "Give me an "Eisenhower Democrat" over a Straussian Republican...please."

    Or better yet....Give me a Democrat who's not afraid of the word LIBERAL like Sen. Clinton is!

    •  I don't get it... (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      markw, Caldonia, DMiller, kck, cpresley

      ...about how come people who call themselves liberals don't like progressives...a political/economic position to the left of liberal.  Liberals are in the middle of the spectrum.

      •  I'm Not Talking About a Fucking Spectrum! (0+ / 0-)

        She's afraid of the WORD Liberal...because she's too chicken to stand up the the neo-cons & call bullshit!

        The MSM has made "Liberal" into a BAD word....and instead of fighting back...she's just rolling over.

        I'm DONE with "Democrats" who say: "Thank you sir, may I have another."

        Some of ya'll are too obtuse to see Sen. Clinton for what she really is.

        •  If that question was posed to Obama, Edwards, or (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Hairy Legs

          Richardson - the other top candidates - you can be sure they too would have avoided the term "liberal." Nevertheless, I don't expect you to buy that they would not have embraced "liberal" nor do I expect you to condemn them if they did avoid the label "liberal." That would be par for the double standard course by which Hillary gets judged.

          I live in my own little world...but it's okay. They know me here.

          by John Campanelli on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 09:56:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  WOW where did you hear THAT? (0+ / 0-)

          Or are you the originator of that ignorant line of crap?

          Hillary SCARED?? SCARED?? You MUST be a right-winger!
          Hillary has stood up against the most powerful in this country. How did she become so hated if she is the coward YOU say she is?? How did such a chicken make so many fascists hate her?

          Open mouth, insert foot.

          Dkos = democracy. The only problem is that both give voice to idiot and genius alike. Read an anti-Hillary diary lately?

          by JamesBrown4ever on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 10:05:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  What crap. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Hairy Legs

          That's on a par with me not wanting to be called a communist because I'm a socialist.  They are two different things...just like progressive and liberal are two different things.

          Does she have to please you by claiming to be something she is not, a position to the right of her actual position?

          That's fucked up.

          •  This Doesn't Have Anything to do with (0+ / 0-)

            "pleasing me". There's no need to be so harsh.

            You don't understand what I'm trying to say.

            And I'll not attempt to explain it again when you call what I'm saying "crap" instead of trying to see both sides of an issue.

            If you're going to vote for Sen. Clinton for President, fine.

            I just had hoped that after the disaster of John Kerry in 2004 that we would be given a choice in the Democratic Party.

            I was wrong.

            Sen. Clinton is just 2008's version of Sen. Kerry. They both need a weatherman to tell 'em which way the wind blows.

            •  You wrote: (0+ / 0-)

              I'm Not Talking About a Fucking Spectrum!

              You don't think politics is a spectrum?

              Do you think progressive and liberal are the same?  Do you think one is a subset of the other?  In either case, you would be wrong.  Political economics * is * a damn spectrum, like it or not.

              Socialism - progressivism - liberalism - conservatism - libertarianism.

              •  . (0+ / 0-)

                I know politics is a spectrum...I'm talking about perception.

                What the MSM & the "swing voters" think of this. THEY are the ones who decied the elections. The people like us who spend a lot of times on blogs & know the nuances between these labels are one thing but the rest of the public is another.

                Here's a quote from a CNN article:

                "There was even some political variety evident, with Democrats and liberals typically reading slightly more books than Republicans and conservatives."

                http://www.cnn.com/...

                This is how we are portrayed...Democrats = Liberals... And that's what I'm talking about. While Sen. Clinton was 100% correct in her definition. She's seen as shying away from her own party and using "progressive" as a code word.(I know it's not a code word...I'm talking perception.)

                I can't tell you how many times I've already heard people say "She's just using progressive instead of liberal so people won't think she's so liberal." (In their way of thinking...liberal being to the left of progressive.)

                And yes I know they're wrong when they say that, but it's the perception that matters. When I try to talk to people who say this about the political spectrum and the differences between them and to look at her voting record and see that she's being truthful....etc....I just get glazed over eyes and dismissive talk.

                I just wish she had given the "right" answer instead of the "correct" answer. Just go ahead & embrace the word liberal and try to show that she's one step beyond that in actual defination.

                I hope some of this rambling made sense.

  •  None of the above (7+ / 0-)

    I'm voting for her in the primary.

  •  If Her Record Is Any Indication (13+ / 0-)

    She will be no further to the right than Obama, and arguably further to the left than Edwards.

    I know.  Edwards is different now.

    I'm just going by their records.

    "two psychics pass each other on the street, one says to the other 'you're doing alright, how am i?'"

    by Edgar08 on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:49:28 PM PDT

  •  Who defines what a Liberal is? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    kck

    Go read Hillarys thesis...
    Here

    I think with a mentor like Saul Alinsky no one is in doubt.

    The big print giveth and the small print taketh away

    by spinaltap on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:51:07 PM PDT

    •  you spend a lot of time on that website? (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Alegre, cpresley, Hairy Legs

      GOPublius.com is dedicated to keeping the Republican Party on track. It is conceived as a sounding board for frustrated Republicans, and likeminded Independents and Libertarians who wish to reconnect with the limited-government roots of the GOP.

      Hillary 2008 - Flying Monkey Squadron 283

      by campskunk on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:58:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope,first time there today when I saw the link.. (1+ / 0-)

        To her thesis, lol...I was taken by Hillary's youthful photo to read any further....but I realized it when I looked at the left links of the site...

        Any way the direct..link is above next to her photo, so you don't have to read anything further down...although there is not much on that site?

        The big print giveth and the small print taketh away

        by spinaltap on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:08:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Maybe because (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    eztempo, Pager, seasalt, GrouchoKossak
    you've used up all your hate on Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Rummy, Condi, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith, Alito, Roberts, Thomas, Scalia, McConnell, Inhofe, Kyl, Romney, Giuliani, Thompson, Brownback, Marilyn Musgrave, Ted Stevens, James Dobson, Tony Perkins, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, Goldberg, Utah mine owner Bob Murray.... you could just go on and on.

    We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

    by anastasia p on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:51:48 PM PDT

  •  I just think the other guys are more electible... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MadAsHellMaddie, foresttdog

    ...so it pisses me off that there are two many opponents which split up the "anti-Hillary" vote.  In the primary I will vote for whoever is polling second to Hillary, and then, of course vote for her in the general election.

    Republican't Leadership is a dangerous combination of cut-backs and incompetence.

    by casamurphy on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:52:20 PM PDT

    •  Please - stop with this "electable" fiction (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ranting Roland, Pager, Hairy Legs

      It's not some inherent quality of a candidate.  Today the dKos FP had Hillary matchups in three states.  She does well in all but does particularly well against Romney. So is Hillary praying that Mitt gets the nomination?  Just like Dems in 2000 prayed it would be GWB and not McCain.

      The truth is that almost all candidates are electable and almost all of them can be beaten.  On both sides of the aisle.  I'm not even sure the GOP hasn't decided to let Hillary take it all and then watch her stumble as she tries to clea up the messes.  Or maybe they've made a deal and it will be Hillary/Jeb! and forget to tell the rest of us the Congress deeded the WH to the Clintons and Bushes with residency to alternate every eight years.

      What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

      by Marie on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:04:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think it's fiction (0+ / 0-)

        Talking to non-liberals amongst my friends and co-workers, the only candidates anyone has strong opinions on already are

        1. Anti-Hilary
        1. Pro-Obama

        and, of course on Dkos

        1. worship Edwards

        People who don't follow politics and/or don't like Democracts will not vote for Hilary.

    •  Her Negatives Are Lower Than Bush's Were (8+ / 0-)

      when he was re-elected in 2004.

      So much for electability problems.

      •  yeah, (0+ / 0-)

        and he cheated.

        Grandpa is mean and he smells funny.

        by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 08:09:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hi, this is Roger at Gop Hq (0+ / 0-)

        and I writing to thank you for the wonderful job you are doing in your role as right-wing echo chamber participant. Keep up the good work, and remember, if you ever lose your lines to be echoed, just tune in to Fox News. Yours, Roger Ailes
        P.S. Your role in keeping Hillary's negatives up will make all the difference in the next race. REMEMBER, it is YOU and your echo that make her appear unelectable, and it is you who must keep it so keep it so keep it so keep it so keep it so

        Dkos = democracy. The only problem is that both give voice to idiot and genius alike. Read an anti-Hillary diary lately?

        by JamesBrown4ever on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 10:16:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So voters should be like (0+ / 0-)

          little lambs and keep quiet without hankering any doubts about any candidates? We cannot bring up any lingering questions?

          I have nothing against her. I just want to see new blood at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I'm trying very hard not to bring up the "D" word without having everyone come down on me.

          "The only phone call she'll get at 3am is Bill calling for bail money and asking Hilary to bring him a pair of pants" - Bill Maher

          by Nedsdag on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 06:48:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  yeah me too (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      slatsg, Ranting Roland, foresttdog

      and I am sure I will get crap for stating my opinion on this:

      How frickin sad is that?

      How dare I want someone "NEW"!

      How dare I want someone not "BEHOLDING" to any group other that what is the collective out-cry of We The People?

      I WANT CHANGE.

      I am a simple person (insert joke) who used to part of something that was called the "middle class".  

      I do not want anything close to more of the same.  I do not want another "war" President.

      Murdoch, AIPAC, Lobbyists, and no Accountability.  Sorry, right now, I just can't do it.

      And yes folks, it's still early.

      Grandpa is mean and he smells funny.

      by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 08:08:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Biting my toungue right now (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        GrouchoKossak

        but I will allow myself to point out that you mean "BEHOLDEN".  I'm tired of people on this site picking fights.

        You know what? I wont hold my toungue after all.  Why don't I ever see diaries about how Edwards will set the seas on fire? Or about how Obama participates in human sacrifice?  Or Richardson will be found in bed with a dead girl or a live boy (underage of course, I don't care what he does in bed with grownups)?  Why is only Hillary judged to be the Antichrist by you most of us here?  And if someone says the AUMF vote again, MY head will explode.  I have made peace with that, and so has every other one of her supporters.  We know what she intended, and our consciences are clear.  Ditto health care reform.  She was NOT ALLOWED to succeed.  You are not going to convince me that she is wrong for the party by running around screaming "Hillary will eat your children!", So. Stop. Trying.

        No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...

        by jarhead5536 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 08:02:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Hello, This is Roger at GOP headquarters (0+ / 0-)

      and I writing to thank you for the wonderful job you are doing in your role as right-wing echo chamber participant. Keep up the good work, and remember, if you ever lose your lines to be echoed, just tune in to Fox News. Yours, Roger Ailes

      Dkos = democracy. The only problem is that both give voice to idiot and genius alike. Read an anti-Hillary diary lately?

      by JamesBrown4ever on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 10:11:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hate? No. Worry? Yes. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    DMiller, eztempo

    I've never hated Hillary.  I haven't even had a whole lot of dislike for her.

    I do have concerns that she may not motivate independents to vote for her.  And we need those votes.  Another concern I have had that popped up n the web in the last week was whether she may hurt local and state races by not bringing enough people to the polls.  

    I intend to support to my greatest ability whoever wins the Democratic primary... be it Hillary, Richardson or (if it came to it) Mike Gravel.

    I also worry that I worry to much about worrying.

    dissent not only welcome... but encouraged

    by newfie53523 on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:53:33 PM PDT

  •  I don't hate her either. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ranting Roland, EvilPaula

    But ....

    I don't think she is the strongest candidate we can put up against team red.

    I know she is not a liberal, let alone a progressive.

    It's not about "hate."

    It's about who represents me, who can win, and who would be best for the country.

    Gimme Obama, Gore, Edwards, or even Richardson....

    "We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."

    by 7November on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:55:32 PM PDT

    •  I thot she'd make a more trusted Prez than Bill (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      campskunk

      Back in '92, I felt that Hillary was more certain of her convictions than her husband -- and probably smarter.  I wanted to voter for her then.

      Since, I fear she's been around the "triangulators" too long and has lost that innocent frankness that endeared me to her, back then.

      Now, I find a field of candidates that say they believe things can be done that I want done, while she hems & haws and triangulates.

      But, if "the inevitable" happens, I'll remind myself that she's never done anything to make me disrespect her or doubt her abilities, much less hate her, and I'll not only vote for her, but I'll go out and work for her.

      I do wonder at Hllary's "long view" judgment -- letting Bush/Cheney give her the bum's rush to War and voting them a blank check to invade Iraq, and her apparent willingness to join Cheney in mau-mau'ing Iran, lately, and all -- however.

      •  I'm just now starting to really (0+ / 0-)

        familiarize myself with her specific positions on other issues, but I do know that I'm more comfortable with her positions on gay issues than Edwards or Obama.

      •  Hemming and Hawing (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        eztempo, seasalt

        Is kinda smart because who knows what they will find once they get to the White House

        When you pull up a Bush, all that is left is a hole in the ground  

        LIFE * I have lived enough of it (one year short of 8 decades) to know that I am still a pupil.

        by Luetta on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 09:26:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let's hope it's more than a "Hole" in the ground (0+ / 0-)

          "Hole," huh?

          I suspect that Courtney Love still 'courts' love.  And I think she's "smart" to keep her options open, lest she find hersself at the Top Of The Heap.

          Let's us committed Democrats not be easy, for an Rock Star, y'know?

    •  Actually - She's Got a More Progressive Record (7+ / 0-)

      than Edwards and her votes on Iraq are separated by Obama's by maybe one vote.

      She voted against Gates' confirmation - Obama voted for it.

      For a breakdown on her voting record see the link in my sig line.

      •  As a Kansan ... (0+ / 0-)

        ...I've been interested in Gates' career, he hailing from by birthtown, and all.

        We Kansans always applaud the success of any Son of Kansas.  We do that, not because we agree with him (or now, with the appearance and Star Quality of our Democrat Governor, Kathleen Sebelius, because we think s/he is the Best Ever Nominee for Vice President by any suck-up to American Values, this 2008 Cycle, agree with HER on all things...), but, I've taken an interest in Bob Gates since he was willing to kill a lot of Central Americans on an illegal "Arms-For-Hostages*" deal, back before most of you silly people were born.  And, I didn't think that killing people 'on contract,' in Central America, was a good idea for America.

        We Kansans trust that our neighbors have a lick of common sense.

        • On Wikipedia, there's this entry:

        Under the heading, "Persons Indicted, Pardoned, and re-instated,":
        Robert Gates:[47] under Bush, confirmed on December 6, 2006 as the new Secretary of Defense to replace the resigning Donald Rumsfeld. Served as Director of Central Intelligence from 1991–1993 under George H.W. Bush. During Iran Contra he was Deputy Director of Central Intelligence.

        I first came across him, and came to know him, in the "before years" when he was killing brown people in El Salvador and Nicaragua in the late '70s, without having to explain anything about his actions.

        It's interesting that he's called back by a former colleague at CIA's son to kill more brown people.

    •  She is absolutely a progressive. Where do you get (5+ / 0-)

      this? She always has been. Working primarily on issues concerning underprivileged women and children. She's a reliable union vote that sponsors pro-union legislation and walks picket lines. She is perfect on choice and social welfare issues. If Hillary isn't progressive, I don't know who is.

      The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

      by lorelynn on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:58:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Um, like these (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ranting Roland

        voted to authorize Bush use of force

        defends DOMA

        defends NAFTA

        welfare?  r u joking?

        Clinton's welfare reform, she advocated/s?

        really.....  perfect?

        sucks up to the DLC....

        "We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."

        by 7November on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 08:52:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You're wrong about a bunch of that stuff. (0+ / 0-)

          She's criticial of both NAFTA and DOMA and she voted against CAFTA. She spearheaded the opposition to defeat the Federal Marriage Amendment. And if you prefer Ronald Reagan's welfare reform, I don't think you're in the position to criticize anyone on being progressive. Either that, or you don't know how grim welfare was before the reform.

          The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

          by lorelynn on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 10:09:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is called setting up a "straw man" (0+ / 0-)

            And if you prefer Ronald Reagan's welfare reform, I don't think you're in the position to criticize anyone on being progressive. Either that, or you don't know how grim welfare was before the reform.

            Once you devolve to that level of argumentation, ie, putting up a false choice that was never part of the discussion, it becomes pointless to discuss this further, you are clearly sufficiently a Hill partisan that you will stoop to the quote above.

            "We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."

            by 7November on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:35:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  NO, it isn't a strawman. LOL Geez. (0+ / 0-)

              Clinton's reform, which you object to, was, in most ways, an improvement over the damage Reagan had done to the system. He wasn't able to restore it completely and there are parts that are awful. But Reagan had done so much damange that it needed to be reformed.

              there's a lot not to like in the bill. But there is awful to like as well and there are some serious improvements over what we had.

              Like I said, I worked with welfare mothers through the late eighties and nineties - I know, wereof, I speak.

              The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

              by lorelynn on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 09:44:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Do dislike her votes on key (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ranting Roland

    legislation, the way she going all the way with George on invading Iraq and almost all of the legislation either championed and/or signed by Bill.

    Silber makes some good points on this http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com...

    Would I like to see a woman as POTUS, sure.  A black man, sure.  But I would like them to have a public track record and not be legacy candidates.  I for one had had enough of the Bushes with Bush I and have had enough of the Clinton's with Bill.  Sadly the country fell for another Bush, and this time a Clinton cannot pull our butts out of the quagmires were in.  The Clinton's are incrementalists and that's not going to be enough.

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

    by Marie on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:56:14 PM PDT

    •  No (0+ / 0-)

      You are a women that I will bet has a college degree. No women will ever stand up to what you think a women should be. You are better than she is so you can not vote for her. It's the same with the mommy wars. I am better than you are because my children are important to me so I will give up my job to stay home with them and you are a job whore because you went to work and left your children alone. This is why women are still second class citizens in this country. It is not because of men. It is because females kill there own.

      •  What? (0+ / 0-)

        You need to really explain this post or I'm going to TR for pure asshattery and repub talking points.

      •  What a ridiculous and stupid comment... (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        DMiller, Luetta, GrouchoKossak

        Need I say more?  I think you owe Marie an apology.

        A heart is not judged by how much you love; but by how much you are loved by others. -Wizard of Oz

        by PixieThis on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 08:50:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not going to TR you (0+ / 0-)

        but I think you owe an explanation for this completely outrageous statement:

        I am better than you are because my children are important to me so I will give up my job to stay home with them and you are a job whore because you went to work and left your children alone. This is why women are still second class citizens in this country. It is not because of men. It is because females kill there own.

        It's utter horseshit.

  •  She was wrong about Iraq, but (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    markw, campskunk, Caldonia, DennisMorrison

    I prefer someone who had the judgment and / or the courage to be against the American invasion of Iraq in all ways at all times.

    But if Clinton is the Democratic nominee, she has got my vote.

    Better Clinton than any of the Republicans.

    By the way, the Clinton presidency is looking pretty damn good about now whit all that peace and prosperity and a sexy scandal to boot. Now the scandals involve torture, the corruption of Justice Department, abuse of the Bill of Rights, and mega tax dollars. The Clinton years, those were the days.

    We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

    by Sam Wise Gingy on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 06:59:31 PM PDT

  •  I hate her. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ranting Roland

    She voted for the war, then opposed it, she was against timetables before she supported them, she was against using nukes before supporting the use. Her policies are which ever way the wind blows. Do not vote for her in the primaries!

  •  I'm supporting her in the primaries, but (7+ / 0-)

    she's not Eisenhower(these candidates really are close on the issues), but if that makes you comfortable enough to vote for her in the GE, then so be it.  

  •  How about a battle tested veteran? (11+ / 0-)

    That would mean someone who has withstood the full force of the Republican slime machine.

    How about someone who has learned to respond swiftly and forcefully to Republican attacks?

    How about someone who has a thick enough skin to survive over 15 years of Republican slander?

    In my opinion, Hillary Clinton has proven her ability to withstand the Republican attack machine.

    Obama has not. Edwards has not.

  •  I love her (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    eztempo, DennisMorrison

    even before I had the opportunity to meet her and hear her speak and respond to questions from a very small (=/-50) group of people.  She's all I could hope for in a leader.

    Having said that, I'm praying that she's not the nominee.  

    The other side won't have a candidate that will excite their base - but that base will turn out to vote against her.

    I can't take another 4 fucking years of a Republican president, folks.  

    I scroll for pooties

    by aepm on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:07:27 PM PDT

    •  She has won over many moderate repugs in NY (6+ / 0-)

      I'm not sure how polarizing she will be. She will inspire some repugs to vote, but she is also inspiring a lot of woman too.  And her positions beat Guiliani's positions any day.  There will be some idea's thrown around in the campaign too!  

      "The woman's life is misery; for God's sake, people, at least give her a few good songs". NYT review of The Color Purple

      by arogue7 on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:11:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's silly. I'll assume you don't really (6+ / 0-)

      "love her" and she is not all you could "hope for in a nominee".  If you felt that way, you would be supporting her.

    •  Where is the Republican base, and who (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      campskunk, DMiller

      are they centering their efforts on?  Noone.  They are so bored with their candidates, they couldn't even show up at the last straw poll to vote.  Straw Polls are usually made up of the base big time.  The winner Romney, bought his votes, and they were pitiful at best.  

      I don't buy that argument in the least anymore.  The republican party is fractured, their base is small.  They will stay at home if they have to.  But the activity of whatever base they have left will inspire our base.  Nothing activates me more than to see one of those right wing religious bigots go after our candidate, and Hillary Clinton to boot.  I would work twice as hard just to see the head of one or two right wingers in my family
      explode.  You are forgetting our base.  Would we just sit still and watch them do it.

      The base idea is just such a bogus excuse.  I don't think you love hillary clinton.

    •  I think the other leading candidates give the GOP (3+ / 0-)

      "Base" plenty to get excited over. Obama's middle name will draw out the "tough guys who hate muslims" crowd, and maybe the fundy christians as well who will be convinced he is muslim no matter what he says. And let's not even get into the ugly republican white supremicist base...

      Edwards' trial lawyer history will get the whole "liberal lawyers are satanic" crowd.  Of course he grew up poor, so that makes him unqualified to be rich--plenty to riff off of there.

      Gore, if he ran, has a hate draw similar to Clinton's in my view. Republicans absolutely loath the man.

      It's not our candidates that will excite or not excite the republican base. It's THEIR CANDIDATES. All of whom currently SUCK. Any of our guys/gal could whup their asses enough to win if we support them in a remotely fair election.

    •  Who will they be voting for? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Luetta, GrouchoKossak

      Mitt Romney?  Not the fundies, no way.  Fred Thompson, not while he's wearing gucci loafers and has that trophy wife on his arm, not gonna happen.

      The repubs can't muster a candidate for their base to vote for.  The problem with a negative campaign is that you actually have to give your side an alternative.  So far, the repubs have nada.

  •  I'm focusing my hate on Bush (5+ / 0-)

    We have got to fix america.  And a democrat is the one to do it.  

    "The woman's life is misery; for God's sake, people, at least give her a few good songs". NYT review of The Color Purple

    by arogue7 on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:07:56 PM PDT

  •  Innocence by disassociation (11+ / 0-)

    I don't hate her mostly because of the people that hate her most - Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Karl Rove.  She can't be bad if these guys hate her so much.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

    by illinifan17 on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:08:20 PM PDT

  •  Oustanding Diary SeaSalt - Recommended! (6+ / 0-)

    All excellent points.

    And to answer your poll question I'd say you left our an option - I don't hate Hillary - I support her 1000%!

  •  She's not my first choice per se (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    markw, campskunk, Caldonia, Alegre, lorelynn, gailfr

    The one thing that I will say is that, unlike other Democrats, she know how to handle the VRWC.

    •  isn't she the one that named it? (6+ / 0-)

      I wish Democrats would stop looking at candidates through their electability crystal balls and simply try to determine which candidate they believe best represents their views.  Kerry was nominated because early primary voters determined that he was the most electable.  Good call.  

      Personally, I think there are alot of people out there who won't admit their going to vote for Hillary, but will vote for her anyway because despite all the white noise that surrounds her she just seems . . . competent.

      I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality. -- George Washington

      by gailfr on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:35:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  She's had a lot of practice! (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      campskunk, Caldonia

      That and her rapid response team seems unbeatable.  Like they said in the war room in 1992 - SPEED KILLS.  

      The faster the better and we saw that in how they handled turdblossom's rantings over the weekend.  Had a point by point rebuttal by Monday morning.

  •  I have never hated her either (8+ / 0-)

    and probably never will.

    That's because I AM A LIBERAL.  In my view, a liberal does not close one's mind to someone's pov just because it is different from your own.

    I believe that there is NO ONE CANDIDATE that I will agree with on all issues, but I believe that ALL of the dem candidates share the same general view as I have.

    While I think Hillary's vote was wrong on Iraq, I do not believe it was evil, or unforgiveable.  Much of the country was torn in those days.  Many were just not sure what the answer was and were still reeling emotionally from the terrorism.  
    And I know many people who did not equate giving the president the power to go to war with encouraging going to war.

    I wish I had the same crystal ball here that some seem to have.  Some people already know exactly what we should do, and regardless of the consequences, want it done when and how they want it done.  Sounds like the Bush strategy.....the decider mentality.

    I want a leader willing to look at all the options, hear from many people from the military to civilian advisers to scholars before making any decision.
    Rove/Bush made the decision based on politics...who it would make happy (big oil), who it would upset (the far left) and who would go along for awhile if they used the words terror and 9/11 nonstop.

    I don't think Hillary or Obama or John or Bill or Dennis or Chris will do that. I think they will make decisions based on a lot of information up front.

    I think the Hillary Haters will never accept her for whatever reason.
    The "unelectable" meme is the same as the republicans who say "women hate her because she did not leave Bill".  That is such bs.  The same republicans who spout that then will turn around and tell you how important the family is and all legislation should be to keep heterosexual marriages together.  The same idiots preaching that homosexual unions threaten heterosexual unions are angry because Hillary "stood by her man".  Go figure.

    I have admired Hillary for years, even when I  disagree with her.  I think women are held to a higher standard and the fact that she has large "negatives" can be attributed to a large of amount of paternalistic idiots who still think the "little woman" should be barefoot and pregnant and silent.

    No way am I going to bow to their meme.

    •  vote (0+ / 0-)

      That was not just any vote it is the most important vote any legislator will ever make,

      I will not vote for some one who does not think that vote was a mistake. The war and it's costs in lives money and prestige around the world is immeasureable.

  •  the lobby money I have a problem with. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ranting Roland, cville townie

    I want a candidate who has good judgement and sticks up for the Constitution and its' people not corporations.
    I don't think Hil has demonstrated she will do that at all.
    I am also troubled about her nuclear cluster bumb vote and taking $83,000 in 2006 from AIPAC for her campaign.
    I also don't want a candidate who is constantly being portrayed as a victim from a cheating spouse, Rove, the GOP....I don't understand why Michelle Obama says something about being able to keep a hous in order-that she was jabbing. Once again the victim card is played. Becasue of always benefitting from the "victim"-I think many women who are sympathetic to her from similiar experiences from a cheating spouse identify with her emotionally. But I wonder if they are looking close enough about her statements on Iran, using nuclear weapons-like cluster bombs, letting foreign lobbies like AIPAC influence her vote, past history of scandals......
    i certainly hope that they do.

  •  Heck, give me an Eisenhower *Republican* (0+ / 0-)

    over a Clinton Democrat.  But since there are none, shoot, I'll vote for her.  But the world will owe me one.

  •  There's no reason to hate her, that's why (3+ / 0-)

  •  Hillary on the issue (video) (7+ / 0-)

    Clinton '08 // Putting People First

    by Berkeley Vox on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:59:50 PM PDT

  •  Hillary has good news! (2+ / 4-)

    The surge is working!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    And it's a darn good thing, too!  According to Ted Koppel on NPR, she has told her advisors to plan for 8 more years in Iraq once she becomes president.

    http://www.boomantribune.com/...

    How could anybody hate such an optimist?  Where everybody else sees an immovable object, she just sees one more rubber plant!  She has high hopes!