Daily Kos

Toronto Star: Record Americans leave for Canada

by tomkertes

Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:32:29 AM PDT

The story of record Americans leaving for Canada has been getting some coverage in Canada.  Yesterday I talked about my reasons for moving on an all news station in Vancouver and today the daily Toronto Star covered the study that points to record numbers of Americans moving to Canada.  While the numbers are small, last year a 30-year high was reached in the number of the Americans who moved.

Those of us who moved to Canada for political reasons are an indication that the United States is off track in a major way.  Bush's open acts of torture, major illegal invasions and occupations of aggression and the use of fear and serious propaganda to maintain power are all indicators that these times are not ordinary.  Bush is a threat to democracy.  He is a threat to America and it is time for extraordinary action.  That is why I moved and why I am glad that I've been lucky enough to publicly assign meaning to my move.

From the Toronto Star:

For 34-year-old labour organizer Tom Kertes, the move last April from Seattle, Wash., to Toronto was based on human rights.

"The words `human rights' are foreign words in the U.S.,'' Kertes said.

"They only apply to other countries.''

He moved to Toronto with his partner Ron Braun and the two plan to marry, something they could not do in Washington state.

He also cited the war in Iraq and the torture of Iraqi prisoners by Americans – and the failure of the Bush administration to clearly disavow such practice – as contributing factors to what is a major decision.

"Moving countries is not done lightly," he says.

He said he found the tolerance of Toronto welcoming and he thought Canadians were proud of their reputation for tolerance.

I am glad that I have been able to publicly assign meaning to my move.  It was because of a diary that I posted on Kos that the first reporter from ABCNews.com reached me - pointing him (I assume) to my essay at TomKertes.com on why I moved to Canada.

Ever since Bush was appointed President by the Supreme Court in 2000 we have been on an historic path of decline of rule of democratic law in the United States.  Bush used the barbaric act of terror as a way to further his unrelated and short sighted agenda in the Middle East.  The nation has endured the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq sold on lies, the open torture of human beings, secret jails and courts, the denial of basic rights and the failure to save New Orleans.

This are not ordinary times for the United States.  It is time that we all acted as such.  It is time to respond with urgency because the very Republic is at risk.  Our democracy can not endure continued assaults on human rights and the rule of law.  

Tags: canada, human rights, immigration, bush administration, torture, gay marriage (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 69 comments

  •  I stand and fight (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    AceDeuceLady, terabytes, willb48

    "Lash those traitors and conservatives with the pen of gall and wormwood. Let them feel -- no temporising!" - Andrew Jackson to Francis Preston Blair, 1835

    by Ivan on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:26:06 AM PDT

  •  Moving to Canada... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ian H, Temmoku

    ...it's the American way!

    aka "you can have struggle without suffering"

    The people who have the means to move to another country are very likely the ones the government wouldn't come after anyway.

    by NYCO on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:29:55 AM PDT

    •  American Way (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Lupin, KiaRioGrl79, Cory Bantic, Ian H

      A friend said this very thing to me when I told him I was becoming a Canadian citizen:  "Aren't you losing the American way by doing this?"

      My reply was simple:  "Isn't it the American way to want and attain full rights where you have chosen to live, where you raise your family and pay taxes?"

      Yes, the freedom afforded Americans to travel and pursue happiness allows for moving, and the drive for equal rights and freedoms also motivates such decisions.

      "I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..." - Elvis

      by Gearhead on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:36:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think you know me very well (8+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Gearhead, lunacat, KiaRioGrl79, paxpdx, Ian H, AceDeuceLady, MarketTrustee, Temmoku

      I am an active human rights activist in the United States and I am willing to fight for human rights everywhere. Leaving the US was not easy, I am uprooted and away from family.  I am here because my values and principles were under assault and I believe that these times require extraordinary measures.  You don't need to move to take such a measure, but your life should be totally disrupted if you are responding as the time require.

      Tom Kertes - End poverty by securing human rights for all.

      by tomkertes on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:47:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  if (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ian H

        Moving to Canada is more conducive to your work as a citizen of the world, then more power to you.

        However, in my view, moving away one can also sacrifice the close-up view of the very people that some expatriates are purporting to "help."  

        by NYCO on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:52:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Be careful Tom... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ian H

        they have no shame.  They can come and remove you from Canada in the middle of the night.  Remember the Canadian citizen they had tortured in Syria?  Shame on this Bush family.  How can 41 sit by and watch his son destroy America?  I wish some reporter would grab him and ask him what he thinks about his son's crimes. He would probably start crying.

        by victoria2dc on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:53:13 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Welcome (8+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Lupin, Gearhead, object16, Shadan7, roses, KiaRioGrl79, Ian H, FrankFrink

    Canada needs people who value human rights.

    This above all: to thine own self be true...-WS

    by Agathena on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:31:17 AM PDT

    •  Excuse Me? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ian H

      Why do we "need" people who value human right?  Are you implying we don't?

      Or that a poor phrasing?

      Human Rights are not negotiable

      by TheManWithNoPoint on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:35:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't worry (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Ian H

      They'll hie away from Canada too if things get too hot.

      I don't have a problem with Americans who feel really personally scared for their own liberties who want to leave. But look... if someone is going to go to Canada, they should embrace Canada and be a Canadian, raise their children as Canadians, and commit to their new country.  Not an expatriate American, thinking they're going to preserve themselves and their sacred honor and then someday come back when everything is all right in America again -- smoothed out by other people.  Give me a break.  You'll be like the rich Iraqi elites who fled the country and now think they're going to have a say in its future because Saddam is gone and it's safe to come back.

      And the idea that voting from abroad is somehow going to help anything when voting inside America hasn't helped anything? I don't get that part, sorry.

      by NYCO on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:42:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the world does (6+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Gearhead, Agathena, roses, KiaRioGrl79, Ian H, victoria2dc

      human rights are based on the values of respect, dignity and sanctity of human life. These values require that we extend rights to all. This struggle belongs not to any one country and is yet to be won on all fronts. It's a worthwhile fight and one I am dedicated towards winning and fighting for.

      Tom Kertes - End poverty by securing human rights for all.

      by tomkertes on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:49:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A modest plug... (8+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    roses, arkdem, ybruti, KiaRioGrl79, Ian H, FrankFrink, victoria2dc, MarketTrustee

    ...for my wife's book, blog, etc. because it's on topic.

    Read about the "ones who got away" in Mrs. Lupin's book, OVER HERE: AN AMERICAN EXPAT IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE, available on Amazon and which can also be ordered direct from the publisher, Black Coat Press.    

    (Otherwise a publisher of fine classic mysteries, fantasy novels and thrillers translated from the French.)

    Briefly, OVER HERE tells of our decision to leave Los Angeles after the "reelection" of you-know-who and diaries our relocation to the South of France during the ensuing 12 months. It's illustrated with 100 b&w photos. It's sort of a cross between A YEAR IN PROVENCE and DAILY KOS.

    There are color photos of our region and installation on my wife's website and more current tidbits on her blog and forum for expats.

    In a world where the security alert is being upgraded from "Cheddar" to "Roquefort", the Lupins are prepared!

    Enjoy!

    OVER HERE: AN AMERICAN EXPAT IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE, is now available on Amazon US

    by Lupin on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:39:16 AM PDT

    •  unfortunately (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MarketTrustee

      The vast majority of Americans have neither the means to move to the South of France, and many probably don't have the means to buy your wife's book.

      Like I said - the people who seem most paranoid about Bush's persecution are usually the same ones who have the financial means to flee.

      by NYCO on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:44:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't be so rash as to make... (6+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        lunacat, arkdem, KiaRioGrl79, Ian H, FrankFrink, MarketTrustee

        ...bold pronouncements.

        Let me make one thing perfectly clear, as Tricky Dick once said: we're rather poor, $$-wise.

        We did have a house in LA that we bought in the mid-80s, on a fixed-rate mortgage, and we never borrowed against the equity, so when we sold it, we got a decent amount of cash. That, indeed, was the key to our move.

        It enabled to buy a new house here and to renovate it without any loans for about a third of what we got from selling our LA house.

        Our income (freelance & legal) dropped by about 50%, since in my case, I had to switch from active partner to being of counsel, if you wish, but our living expenses dropped by 2/3rd, so while the aggregate sums are smallish (low five figures) we actually live better than we did before.

        We have no kids, which obviously makes a huge difference, and we both had had dual citizenships for a long time & spoke the language, etc., also a major factor. But we could have made the same move to the mountains of Vermont (which we also considered) and achieve the same objectives.

        So all in all, I think you're quite mistaken in your assumptions.

        OVER HERE: AN AMERICAN EXPAT IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE, is now available on Amazon US

        by Lupin on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 06:01:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  sorry (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Ian H

          I had to switch from active partner to being of counsel

          that's the giveaway.

          by NYCO on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 06:05:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hope you don't think... (0+ / 0-)

            ...I ever worked for one those Engulf & Devour law firms? Perish the thought! Even when in LA, I only represented poor artists and you don't make a lot of $$ representing poor people.

            I'm not complaining, mind you, freedom and the ability to sleep well at night comes at a price, but we were never able to afford real luxuries (we were the only couple in LA that I knew with only one car -- a Toyota Echo).

            As I said, our current income is pretty low by US standards, but then our expenses are much lower, and so is our ecological footprint.

            One the factors that drove our desire to move away from the US in general and from Los Angeles in particular (besides Bush, Iraq, healthcare, the economy, creeping fascism, etc, etc, etc) was to downsize our lifestyle.

            Obviously, if you have very little and no means of earning at least a modest living on your own, you're stuck. But I know plenty of people who could do what we did -- even staying in the US, moving to Montana or Vermont -- and don't.

            It's not entirely a matter of money.

            OVER HERE: AN AMERICAN EXPAT IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE, is now available on Amazon US

            by Lupin on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 07:34:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I know that to you there were financial losses (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          MarketTrustee

          to accept, but if you were to ask a janitor at your former firm if she could afford to move to the south of France, the answer would be different.

          Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?

          by Wee Mama on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 07:25:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't fixate on... (0+ / 0-)

            the South of France. It was a cheap option for us, as well as a pleasant one. We bought our new home for 75,000 euros, but we just as well considered Quebec and Vermont as alternatives.

            What we benefited from was: (a) the appreciation in real estate prices between 1985 and 2005, and (b) the ability to work via the internet.

            OVER HERE: AN AMERICAN EXPAT IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE, is now available on Amazon US

            by Lupin on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 07:41:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  After seeing sicko (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Ian H, FrankFrink, victoria2dc

    Saturday night, I am seriously contemplating not so much moving to Canada, but moving to any other country that isn't anti-citizen.. The comment above says stay and fight. . well, this is a good point, however sometimes you have to know when to fold em'. I have been doing everything humanly possible for the past six years to curb the fascism in this country, but to no avail. I believed after last November that I could breathe a sigh of relief but low and behold having a majority in congress apparently doesn't mean squat. Look at the FISA bill over the weekend.

    Just about every system, agency, institution, politician and corporation in this country is CORRUPT.  The good guys are definitely still in the minority. I see no way to repair the damage the Bush Admistration in the near future, not even with all three branches on the blue side. The GOP still has the influence, the money, the power to make the blue team cave. No one has a godmamed backbone.

    The only hope we have in this country to gain back the concept the founding fathers envisioned is to have taxpayer funded campaigns. We have to get the corps. out of it altogether.Level the playing field. But it will never happen because the very folks who have the power to make this a law are the ones who benefit from the corporations money: ALL OF THEM.

    Unless the people of this country demand a referendum on the issue where WE decide, nothing will change.

    NOT THIS TIME!

    by donailin on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:43:15 AM PDT

  •  A rather silly headline (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Yellow Canary

    considering that twice as many Canadians are still moving to the USA as vice versa.

    And, given the relative number of people in each country, a Canadian is still about 25 times more likely to switch countries compared to an American.

    So, if things are so much worse in the USA, why is that?  And more importantly, how can we get Celine Dion back where she belongs?

    by Roadbed Guy on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:45:14 AM PDT

  •  I was deeply impressed with Canada when I lived (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    KiaRioGrl79, Ian H, FrankFrink, fiddlingnero, MarketTrustee

    there one year in the late 1980s.  I was in Vancouver.  Beautiful, clean, modern.  (Vancouver in 1987 was the first time I ever saw anyone with a cell phone.)  Their attitudes about government and society were much different than ours--they believed in good government  and trusted it to provide good social services.  

    I was there in the second Reagan term during the televangelist scandals.  Nothing has changed in the US in the last 20 years, it's only gotten worse.  Too bad I didn't have the presence of mind to try to find permanent employment up there (I was on a postdoc).  But then again, I'm here, and I want to fight the bastards who are taking our country down, particularly the religious right.  Never has the American people been defrauded so completely when Bush was marketed as a likeable moderate, but instead was on the dominionist right.

    by Dimetrodon on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:46:22 AM PDT

    •  Make no mistake (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      KiaRioGrl79, Ian H, FrankFrink, MarketTrustee, Dimetrodon

      we're fighting them up here, too.  It's a growing problem.

      I married into the country, btw.  

      aka Prole at A Creative Revolution

      by fiddlingnero on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 06:57:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's distressing. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        FrankFrink

        I hope the Canadian public will see through this.  In the US, these groups are funded by wealthy dominionists such as Howard Ahmanson; they're well-organized and they cooperate with the Republicans every election cycle.  If this group is connected to the various groups in the US, e.g., if this group is funded by the same wealthy individuals that fund these things in the US, I suspect that would not set well with Canadians.  I hope people are doing research on this group (and any other groups) in Canada.

        By the way, Christian-right groups for some reason often try to obscure their connections. I ran across a modest example where I live (Louisville, KY).  Some local group called ROCK (Reclaim Our Culture Kentuckiana) has been putting up billboards around town against pornography.  I was curious who these people are.  It took a lot of hunting to determine that the group was started by members of Southeast Christian Church, the largest church in the area (17,000 members), a church that has worked closely with other religious right organizations (such as the anti-gay marriage campaigns in 2004).

        by Dimetrodon on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 09:43:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  See You (0+ / 0-)

    I'm staying put.  I suspect that it will be an interesting ride going forward, however.  I'm pretty optimistic about what a good Democratic government can do with the potential of this country -- especially led by my candidate, Sen. Clinton.  I am under no delusions, though, about the road we have before us.

    "Truck Stop Women," a New Film By Phil Gramm and John McCain.

    by bink on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:46:30 AM PDT

  •  In 2004, 6470 Americans emigrated (0+ / 0-)

    ..to Canada. About the same as Romania or Iran.

    http://www.migrationinformation.org/...

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 05:55:36 AM PDT

    •  and about 5,000 more moved in 2006 (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      KiaRioGrl79

      a small number in absolute terms, but a big relative jump.  Does this mean that there are many in the US who believe that the times are extraordinary, or is it just a blip?  I don't know.  But I do know that I moved because human rights are being violated in the US on a scale I find alarming.  That is why I moved to Canada, and I suspect why many others are as well.

      Tom Kertes - End poverty by securing human rights for all.

      by tomkertes on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 06:04:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can claim citizenship (0+ / 0-)

    easily, as my father is canadian, as are most of my extended relatives. But I haven't done so.  I spent a year in grad school up in Victoria, and my fellow students were incredibly anti-american (this was during the clinton admin). I had one student, who I tutored in writing, actually refuse to use me as a tutor after she found out I was American. No political conversations at all, she was just shocked I was american and wanted nothing to do with me. In recent visits, one of my relatives won't even talk to me, even though we've never had an argument--his wife tells me he just doesn't like Americans.  It's all made me realize that no matter how long I lived up there, I'd never be fully accepted.  I'll stay down here. It's the best I've got.

    Drop by Mackerel Street: Lit & Photo Blog

    by decembersue on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 06:48:57 AM PDT

    •  When I read a comment like this I often wonder (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      KiaRioGrl79, FrankFrink, fiddlingnero

      if the American who thinks Canadians are anti-American ever really examines why there may be that sentiment. Perhaps it doesn't occur to them that we may have some legitimate reasons, which don't fit neatly inside the  comcepts of American patriotism, or that there is a perception that the US goes around bullying the world because they can, and because they really believe that the American way is the best way. What Americans need to understand is that other countries think they have the best way, and it isn't necessarily the American one.

      Canadians have to live with that attitude on a daily basis, as we watch the American government flaunt treaties and do whatever they like whenever they want because it is in America's best interests and screw everyone else. Perhaps that student had family who worked in the soft lumber industry for example.  I have dozens of neighbours who will not go to the US, and N Dakota in particular, because of the Devil's Lake diversion. It's our way of expressing our disdain for the government of the USA. That doesn't translate necessarily to being anti-American the way you seem to understand it.

      Think of it this way -- it's not Americans that we don't like, but sometimes there is an attitude that we don't like. And sometimes it is just easier to make a blanket assessment and deal with it that way.

      In the long run though, it is my impression that we Canadians are not so much anti-American  as we are pro-Canadian and I think it's difficult for Americans -- who are indeed in my experience usually very pro-American in the same sense  -- to grasp that.  

      by Aunt Arctic on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 07:21:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, so I guess I deserve (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Aunt Arctic

        to be treated rudely without provocation because of politicians I didn't even vote for. Jesus.

        My fucking COUSIN will not SPEAK TO ME.  He and I had never had a political discussion. He knows nothing of my politics. We've never had an unkind word.

        There's plenty of ugliness north of the border as well, Canadians are just human like everyone else.

        And don't get me started on my canadian uncle's deeply racist views about first nations...

        Drop by Mackerel Street: Lit & Photo Blog

        by decembersue on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 08:26:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your family is certainly not (0+ / 0-)

          representative of most of the hundreds of Canadians I know, and I can't apologize for them and their rudeness. I suspect that your cousin has reasons, which may or may not be legitimate, but you shouldn't assume all Canadians are like that. The same way I don't assume all Americans are arrogant and ignorant, but I have met some who were.

          But I will say this -- whether you voted for them or not, they are still your government and they do things in your name, just like ours does. That goes with the territory wherever you are.  All I say is that we as Canadians have a right to assume that the American government acts in the name of the American people, and as a consequence we have opinions based on that assumption.

          I hope that one day you may visit again and get a better impression, but I suspect that may mean not visiting relatives.

          by Aunt Arctic on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 09:04:11 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Hmmm, it appears that that distinctly (0+ / 0-)

          nasty Canadian habit of smearing all with a broad brush has rubbed off on you (and this comes from someone who couldn't hate all Canadians more due their dumping Celine Dion on us . . .).

          In any event, I suspect that the only Americans who do not deserve to be smeared with the warmongerer stereotype are those who have bravely refused to pay taxes to support the war machine.  I think there are a few hundred such people . . . somehow I doubt that you are among them.  

          by Roadbed Guy on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 09:04:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  My experience was much different, (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      FrankFrink

      but that was 20 years ago (I was a postdoc in Vancouver).  Some comments by Canadian acquaintences did raise my eyebrows, as when one Canadian told me that America needed Canadian water, so Reagan would bully it out of Canada by mounting a media campaign about Canada being sympathetic to communism. (At the time, that sounded a bit outlandish to me.  Not now.)  But by and large, people there were respectful if not friendly to me.

      by Dimetrodon on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 09:52:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Canada's nice enough (0+ / 0-)

    but it's not home.

    Offshore Oil/NatGas is our Strategic Reserve. Save it for when the rest of the world runs out.

    by Inland on Mon Aug 06, 2007 at 06:59:50 AM PDT

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