Daily Kos

Neuro lyme and Bush

Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 06:21:40 PM PDT

It was revealed today by the WH that Bush was treated for Lyme diseaselast year. His doctors described it as "early, localized Lyme disease" after developing the characteristic bullseye rash.

It is interesting that this was not revealed last year, but rather it showed up in his "past medical history" section of this years report. Lyme is a serious medical problem. I would take it that since it was in "past medical history" it is believed to be "cured".

I speak as a person with lyme and as a medical professional practicing clinical medicine as a PA for 20+ years. I had my lyme diagnosed in 2005 after a vague, undiagnosed illness of 8 years.

Lyme disease has become a hotly debated topic in the medical community. In a nutshell, one camp believes that lyme is not that widespread, that it can be diagnosed fairly simply and that a 4 week treatment of antibiotics is adequate. They don't "believe" in chronic lyme. I would wager that this is W's camp.

They other camp -- my camp -- believes lyme is much more widespread, undiagnosed, under-treated and under-reported. This topic could be easily be a series of long diaries unto itself.

The point being, I would not be suprised if George Bush still has lyme, and lyme that has gotten into his nervous system. Considering his mental deterioration, I would wager that he may have had it from years ago. Certainly his abuse of alcohol and cocaine have not helped.

Lyme is a spirochete bacteria in the same family as syphilis, only lyme has much more genetic material, i.e, lyme experts believe it is a "lot smarter" than syphilis. It is a master at evading our immune systems and at evading our treatments.

Columbia University is studying the neurological effects of lyme, also known as neuroborreliosis.

Here are some of the cognitive difficulties that those affected with long-term, chronic lyme can experience. Remind you of anyone?

Cognitive Aspects in Adults:

Attention Problems: Easy distractibility; difficulty handling multiple tasks at the same time; trouble sustaining attention on tasks and completing tasks; trouble following the course of conversations or the text of a book.  
Memory Problems: Retrieval difficulties are common in which patients may have a hard time recalling what they know; patients may forget conversations or children may forget that they've done homework assignments. At other times, patients experience a problem with the "working memory": as if the material can't be kept on board long enough. Patients may find themselves keeping multiple lists, but then they lose track of where they put their lists.  
Slower Processing Speed: Patients may find it takes them longer to respond to questions or to complete tasks. Reaction time and thinking feel sluggish.  
Verbal Fluency problems: the ability to engage in normal conversations is impaired by the inability to retrieve the right word for the moment or the ability to "name" well-known people or objects. Patients may experience word substitutions or "paraphasias". A patient trying to refer to a "microwave" might, for example, say "radiator". Or, trying to refer to "Amazon.com" the patient might say, "AOL". Or, trying to refer to "fireworks", the patient might say "skylights". Patients may also experience an impairment in speech production, such that they stutter, particularly at times of sensory overload.  

And here are the psychiatric problems that can affect chronic lymies:

Mood Lability: spontaneous swings of mood; spontaneous tearfulness. At times, patients with these symptoms may appear to have a Bipolar II disorder.  
Irritability: an inability to tolerate normal frustrations, with quick bursts of anger. Patients may seem to have undergone a personality change in that previously mild-mannered individuals may now become quite difficult.  
Panic attacks: tachycardia, flushing, chest pain, , numbness and tingling, shortness of breath, choking feeling with the sensation of loss of control and/or of fear of death. Needs to be distinguished from tachyarrhythmias. Panic attacks unrelated to Lyme disease are usually 10-20 minutes in duration. Lyme-related panic attacks may last for an hour or more.  
Less commonly: manic or psychotic episodes (during encephalitic phase), paranoia, tics, obsessive/compulsive symptoms (may trigger a milder pre- existing condition or bring on symptoms de novo)    

Certainly Bush has many of these symptoms. I actually hope that they are not caused by lyme, mostly because I suspect his medical team will not recognize them as such, and he will go untreated. Hopefully he will bungle and bluff his way thru the next year without a serious case of Lyme Rage or paranoia, or panic attacks. Unfortunately, stress significantly flares lyme in affected individuals.

Wow, the course of history could be seriously altered by something the size of the period on the end of this sentence.

Tags: george w. bush, lyme disease (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

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  •  I know more than a few people (12+ / 0-)

    inlcuding several family members who have suffered from chronic Lyme Disease. There conditions included severe joint, as well as neurological problems. Their pain was further exacerbated by then Gov Pataki's Health Commissioner's attack on the licenses of any MD's who used an aggressive antibiotic regimen to treat the LD. Of course, I'm sure that was backed by the health insurance industry.

  •  Chronic lyme (12+ / 0-)

    is all around me.  I live in NY in a semi-rural area and many middle aged men I know have been diagnosed w/chronic lyme (mostly people in construction/service professions who must work outside near wooded areas.)  We have a family of deer that live in our yard and I'm always cognizant of what they carry - though most people don't realize dogs and cats can just as easily pick up the lyme ticks as well.

    In Cape Cod, where I vacation and where my best friend lives, we've seen an adult man die of lyme and one completely change his personality (and have to give up his work as a teacher.)  They are all outdoorsy guys.  Don't know any women with lyme...though I know it's not a gender specific disease.  Just happens that it's men I know who have it.

    It appears that those who had it diagnosed and treated in the early (bullseye rash) stages did recover pretty completely, but those who didn't get it diagnosed were fucked.

    It makes me nervous because I have another chronic immune disorder (Epstein-Barr Virus) that used to be considered "in my mind," but it very real.  It's like herpes - it only rarely rears its head but when it does, it knocks me out.  The people I know w/chronic lyme are worse - they seem to deteriorate over time, whereas my Epstein Barr was only at its worst the first time I had it.

    I'm sorry you have this affliction, and I think its criminal that the nation wasn't informed of the President's diagnosis.  At the very least, it could be an opportunity for education about lyme.

    "There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." - Gandhi

    by hopesprings on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 06:22:46 PM PDT

    •  My heart goes out to you... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      roonie, cosette, 42

      I have very active Epstein-Barr Virus and also C. Pneumoniae as well as chronic Lyme, and I know how awful EBV can be. (I've had chronic tonsillitis for the past 6 years which seems to be mainly caused by the EBV.) My doctor believes that the Epstein-Barr and C. Pneumoniae are so active because of what Lyme has done to my immune system. The "Lyme treatments" I've been getting for the past year have included anti-viral IV's to help fight the EBV.

      I know a lot of women (besides myself) with Lyme... a lot of men too.

      One thing a lot of people aren't aware of is that fewer than 50% of Lyme sufferers ever develop a bulls-eye rash (I've been infected with Lyme at least twice... the first time I didn't get a bulls-eye rash, the second time--many years later-- I did, but I still wasn't diagnosed even when I had that rash, because the doctors I saw were so uninformed about Lyme).

  •  How is it detected neurologically- (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    42, Rogneid, Lujane

    once it has progressed? CT? MRI? PET?

  •  He is mentally unfit but I don't know why (7+ / 0-)

    Most of his basic problems seem to relate to an absent father and a cold-as-ice mother. However, you may be onto something about his recent decline into incoherence.

    "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 06:28:32 PM PDT

  •  I worked for an arthritis specialist (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rogneid, peaceloveandkucinich, Lujane

    who was also an internal medicine specialist in strange disease. she always tested everyone for Lyme disease when she could not figure it out. I could not understand why-at the time it was barely talked about. Now I know.
    I'm in NC where the urban sprawl and building of suburbs mean we see deer all the time wander into neighborhoods since thier being squeezed for room. wonder if it could become bigger problem.

  •  OR he could just be a dry drunk moron... (6+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    object16, cosette, 42, Leap Year, manwithnoname

    "Terror is nothing other than justice...; it is ... the general principle of democracy applied to our country's most urgent needs." M. Robespierre

    by Bartimaeus Blue on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 06:34:39 PM PDT

  •  Interesting (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cosette, churchylafemme, 42, teresab, Rogneid

    Thanks for posting this.  I have Multiple sclerosis and have cognitive problems.  i actually to my Neuro that i was scared that I sound like Bush.

    •  have you checked for lyme? (7+ / 0-)

      Lyme is often confused with other neuro disorders. Use the labs I recommended.

      Also, check out www.cpnhelp.org. Some MS seems to be caused by mycoplasma and responds to antibiotics!

      •  Thanks (3+ / 0-)

        I have read information about Lyme. I have a clear case of MS.  MRI's and all tests for ms positive, i looked into lyme when 1st dxd because i obviously did not want ms. But the neurocognitive problems similar.

        •  sorry, chlamydia pneumonia (3+ / 0-)

          is thought to be associated with some MS. See Dr. Charles Stratton's work from Vanderbilt. And that website I put up.

          •  Thank You (0+ / 0-)

            I will look at it.

          •  My goodness this is too much. (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            allie123

            Do you commonly dispense diagnostic advice like this over blogs?

            "Use the labs I recommended?"  She carries a diagnosis of MS -- presumably made by a board-certified neurologist, I hope -- and you are advising her to get Western blot testing for Lyme disease?

            What state are you licensed as a PA in, anyway?

            •  I am NOT diagnosing or treating whatsoever (4+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              DaleA, cosette, churchylafemme, pgm 01

              What is your problem that people get more information?

              •  p.s. I wish to god someone gave ME more info (6+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                DaleA, cosette, churchylafemme, 42, Rogneid, pgm 01

                during the 8 years that I wandered in the medical wilderness, thousands of dollars later, undiagnosed and getting sicker by the year! And I'm a medical professional!

                The earlier this is diagnosed and treated the better. Unfortunately, the medical community tells docs, "there is no lyme in XYZ". So of course, docs don't even look for it!

                I had a young guy whose job kept him in our local woods. He came down with migratory joint pains. Saw his local doc and a rheumatologist, big work up except for lyme. "Unknown diagosis" they said. Long story short, he was "CDC positive" via western blot for lyme. Now he is at least getting treatment that will go to the root of his problem.

                They might have thought of lyme if they weren't brainswashed that there "is no lyme" here. Awareness is key, AND knowing how to diagnose it.

                •  Wish I could give you a thousand rec's for that. (3+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  roonie, 42, pgm 01

                  I saw more than 25 doctors (in the U.S. and also in Canada)...many more doctors than that, if you include all the ER doctors...before I was diagnosed. I was under-diagnosed for years as having Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (I consider it an "underdiagnosis" rather than a misdiagnosis... since I do have FM and CFS, but in my case they have been symptoms of Lyme.) So I kept getting sicker and ended up being mostly housebound for the past 6 1/2 years.  

                  Almost every other FM & CFS patient that I've met at the center where I'm being treated has also found out (often after many years of being sick) that they have Lyme, and are also responding to Lyme treatments. Unfortunately for many of us it may be too late for us to ever completely recover.

            •  You are out of line. (4+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              roonie, DaleA, churchylafemme, pgm 01

              roonie is providing up to date info about a disease that has still not been pinned down.

              •  Respectfully, I am NOT out of line. (0+ / 0-)

                I think it is irresponsible to advocate specific tests given the limited information in hand.

                I read it as this:
                If you have a diagnosis of MS, and cognitive problems, you should get checked for Lyme, and be sure to use the labs I recommend.

                However:
                There was no mention of the frequency of cognitive dysfunction in MS, which renders the need for a second diagnosis null; no mention of the patients location, as there are regions in the country where Lyme Disease for all intents and purposes is never seen; no consideration of the clinical and laboratory diagnosis of MS.

                allie123, here's my advice: ask your neurologist if your diagnosis of MS is certain, and make sure you know by what criteria.  Then ask her or him if you might have Lyme Disease as well, or (if the diagnosis is uncertain) instead.  And if the diagnosis is uncertain, there are a host of other things that can mimic MS; ask her or him if all of these have been ruled out.

                •  Thanks (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  churchylafemme

                  I have a DEFINITE dx. Don't want it, but have it.  I do have an excellent Neurologist.  She is recommended by the national MS society.  

                  I only brought it up because the cognitive neuro problems i have make me believe that some of bush's cognitive problems could be from some neuro disease.

  •  Any studies on patients that have had lyme (3+ / 0-)

    disease more than once?
    (Odd that b*sh spokesperson would say that he gets tick bites all the time.
    Wonder if Laura gets to pick the ticks off george and barney? Great gig!)

    •  one infection does not confer immunity (5+ / 0-)

      There are many strains of lyme, and lyme often travels with co-infections like babesia, bartonella and erlichiosis.

      Don't get bit!

      •  I have the Bartonella virus. (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        object16, DaleA, cosette, churchylafemme, 42

        I was very sick to begin with, with cold symptoms that turned into fever and unbelievable bone pain, and I was in bed, virtually unaware for a week. I had no idea at the time I had anything other than "the flu." I got over that just fine, but now i have had several bouts of what, if we were talking about chicken pox, would be shingles. It turned out that I had flare-ups every time I got pregnant after that and I had three miscarriages which I believe may be due to Bartonella Henselae. I read in a technical microbiology textbook that "anecdotal evidence shows it may interfere with the first trimester of pregnancy" and it sure seemed to me like it did. Be careful out there.

  •  would the WH not report if Bush had syphilis? (7+ / 0-)

    Syphilis is the same family as lyme. The public generally knows that syphilis is bad news and can go to the brain. Lyme can too, even if "caught early".

    It is more of the secretive WH to not inform the public about potential dire matters of state -- a president with a potentially serious infection.

    Of course, Cheney is pulling the strings...and I doubt there are ticks in his vault.

  •  Thank you for this diary!! (7+ / 0-)

    My husband and I both have late-stage/chronic Lyme...it took more than 13 years for me to be diagnosed and finally start getting treatment (my husband has also had it for many years). We have both had a lot of severe cognitive symptoms.

    There's a good article about the psychological effects of Lyme here (and my Lyme page is here if anyone is interested).

  •  today, I've been suffering from symptoms... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme, pgm 01, Lujane

    that sound an awful lot like incipient lyme disease. It came on me suddenly yesterday evening: joints aching, fever, dizziness, flu-like symptoms. Off and on in bed, unable to function, heat flashes followed by shivering.

    If it continues a few more days, I'll get tested for lyme. It could just be heat prostration, which I had a few years ago with broadly similar symptoms. Since then, I'm particularly sensitive to heat. I was out in the brutal heat yesterday, for short stints, doing yard work.

    I'm hoping it is heat rather than lyme.

  •  I have lived in the same wooded area for 22 years (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    object16, DaleA, 42, pgm 01, Lujane

    and every single year I took off about one tick per animal among the collection of cats & dogs I've had over the years. I even pulled a deer tick off my husband one morning, and I'm assuming he got it from the dog. Hubby is not sick with lyme. Most ticks are not infected.
     Last year was different, many more ticks around, even though they were virtually all the big gray ones. And this year- this year I pulled off as many so far as in the whole 22 years all together.

    Not all are infected, but so many are. A few years ago, the dog nearly starved to death and died from lyme disease. She had a good long dose of antibiotic early on, when she developed a sudden UTI and fever and trembling. That seemed to work really well right away, but even though she was not acutely sick she wouldn't eat or do anything. I thought she would starve, but then we had a rerun of her getting acutely sick and getting antibiotics again and it was as if it all cleared up for good. It took the better part of a year for her to get that sick twice and recover, and a year after that she was totally healthy again. It was a terrible thing, and it appears that dogs have an ability to go a couple rounds with this spirochete and shake it, whereas lyme in people is much harder to get rid of and has even harsher effects.
       I work with the public and I have had two people I met tell me they had had lyme and couldn't think, and even feeling better they didn't feel like they had their minds back yet. Now I can think of a third person, too.

  •  A little speculative natural history (0+ / 0-)

    Mother Nature bats last.

    by pigpaste on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:09:59 PM PDT

  •  This thread demonstrates our future trouble (0+ / 0-)

    with universal health care--which I'm all for.  

    But we will run into trouble when everyone wants their syndrome, or their favorite test, or treatment, covered -- even when there is no good evidence for those costs.

    Just so we are clear: there are people who prescribe long courses of antibiotics for "Lyme Disease", even though the patients have never traveled or lived in areas where the vector is encountered; have clinical courses completely atypical for the disease; and have no definitive laboratory support for the diagnosis.  These practitioners are the reason states and insurance companies have to review practices, and sometimes crack down on people.  Under a universal health care plan, someone has to do the same thing, to be sure that taxpayer dollars are not wasted.

    Treatment decisions should not be made on ultrasensitive immunoblot methods alone.  Sensitivity alone does not determine the value of a test; specificity does too.

    •  I hear you (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      DaleA, churchylafemme

      but what do you think the costs will be individually and societally when it is NOT diagnosed and treated?  HUGE.

      Like I said before, we are in the Dark Ages with diagnosing and treating tick borne illnesses, like AIDS was in the early 80's. If you don't believe me, ask my board-certified infectious disease lyme specialist, who treated AIDS for 20+ years.

      Give us some funding and we can give you your pubmed references.

      Btw, the CDC makes clear that testing is for epidemiological reasons only. The lyme diagnosis is clinical. Try telling that to the insurance companies...

    •  part of the problem (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme

      is that Lyme disease is considered an Emerging Disease. Much more objective research is desperately needed.

      Unfortunately the only disease testing available relies on antibodies being produced which is variable and not always reliable. Until a gold standard test is developed there will be controversy.

    •  Very few people (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      roonie, 42

      have "never traveled or lived in areas where the vector is encountered." There are some particularly high-risk areas, but Lyme is prevalent across the country and throughout the world (in urban areas as well as rural and suburban ones). Lyme is the fastest growing vector-borne disease in the U.S., with 200,000+ new cases every year, according to CDC estimates, and almost everyone is at risk.  

      The Lyme-literate doctors who are prescribing lengthy courses of antibiotics (which are usually required to treat chronic Lyme) are saving people's lives. They have saved mine.

      And there is no "typical" course for this disease. It affects people in many different ways.

      Lyme is a clinical diagnosis-- that doesn't mean doctors can't be very certain that someone has Lyme. My blood tests are not considered positive by CDC standards, but my whole history and my response to treatment, as well as a bulls-eye rash that I had once (which is diagnostic of Lyme in and of itself), are all strong indicators of Lyme. There certainly needs to be much more research and better tests developed, but that doesn't mean that many of the people being diagnosed with Lyme by Lyme-literate doctors are being wrongly diagnosed.

    •  Really (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      churchylafemme, 42

      Just so we are clear: there are people who prescribe long courses of antibiotics for "Lyme Disease"...

      Most of the drugs prescribed are like tetracycline, very powerful and rarely handed out like candy. I don't know of many doctors that would give a 3 week course of powerful antibiotics because a patient thought it would be a good idea.

      I probably have Lyme.  I had many of the nastiest symptoms and walked a 1.5 mile loop daily with fields and woods on both sides of the road and sometimes I walked along paths through the woods along a river here in eastern CT. Walked being the important word, for weeks walking up stairs was a challenge.  I am still not at 100%.

      Since I am not insured I had to go to a walk in clinic and pay out of pocket, the doctor decided to check for Lyme, the test (which I paid for out of pocket) came back negative, but I still have weird symptoms. Yesterday my arms were burning, not like "hot water" burning but more like a continuous "Indian rope burn" from my wrists to my elbow that gradually progressed to pins and needles and disappeared overnight. I have to decide whether it is worth paying another $130, and then I face the possibility of having to pay for the treatment.  I want the ability to go to a Doctor when I am sick and have him treat the problem if he determines there is one, without having to worry about whether or not I can afford the treatment. We need a single payer health care system, and we needed it yesterday.

      •  I'm sorry to hear that... (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        42, pgm 01

        believe me, it's worth the $130, considering how much more it could end up costing you if you do have Lyme and it progresses. It's much easier to treat it early on.

        Most Lyme-literate doctors (of which there are very few) do prescribe long courses of antibiotics, for chronic/late-stage Lyme (much shorter courses of antibiotics for recently-acquired Lyme), but not because patients ask for them... only when they are sure that someone has Lyme, and the length of the antibiotic treatment depends partly on how long the patient has had Lyme, and how they respond to the treatment.

        I hope you have a Lyme-literate doctor, because so many doctors don't know how to diagnose or treat Lyme properly. If you need to find one, LymeNet has a message board called "seeking a doctor", and the Lyme Disease Association has a "doctor-referral database".

      •  pgm 01 (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        churchylafemme, pgm 01

        There are many reasons for a seronegative Lyme test.

        A negative test just means that you do not meet CDC disease surveillance criteria (98% probability), it does not mean you definitely do not have Lyme.

        Lyme is a clinical diagnosis. Weird symptoms that come and go (at first) is very common. Unfortunately they can progress in severity.

        Best wishes to you.

  •  This part of the cited article sounds horrible (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cosette, churchylafemme, 42, allie123

    I'm glad it's not me:

    He is recovering from an inner ear infection and sinus infection, as well as a virus that resulted in a stomach bug in June and still causes some mild dizziness or disorientation.

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:16:33 PM PDT

  •  autonomic nervous system dysfunction. (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    roonie, churchylafemme, 42

    In being part of several support groups for such disorders, there's an amazing amount of people with Lyme disease who've suffered autonomic damage.  Hallmark of such damage is unsteady blood pressure and heart rates.  Blood pressure will suddenly plummet leaving one to blackout/faint/fall.  Sound familiar?  Its also common to appear very very confused when standing, especially standing still in one place because this allows the blood pressure to fall quickly.  Would explain all the irregularities in Bush's press conferences.  In fact, we've often joked that Bush sounds like he's one of us.

  •  My Lyme story... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme

    .. makes me realize how lucky I was.  We were getting
    ready for an RV trip  and all week I felt odder
    and sicker but kept on doing what had to be done.  By the time we left (from SE Mass.) I knew I was really sick (fever, unbelievable pain, couldn't stay awake)
    but we had to be somewhere, so...  Anyway, by the time
    we got to Iowa I'd developed the bulls-eye rash (thank heavens).  We stopped at a small local hospital, I walked up to a nurse and asked her if she's ever seen
    Lyme Disease.  She hadn't, so I showed her the rash and off she went to find a Dr.  Because it hadn't been seen by anyone at the hospital they did the smart thing and got on the computer.  Because of that I got the right
    drugs (which were hell but worth it!) and 10 days later I was almost back to normal.
    Since then (2 or 3 years ago) I've talked to so many people who have had Lyme, some for years and because
    this is a hot spot, some who've had it more than once.
    I mention this because the question came up if one can
    get this more than once.. Yes, you can.

    When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift

    by lvillelass on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 10:19:59 PM PDT

  •  A tick can cause a tik? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme

    Bush getting Lyme disease just before the 06 election is not something the White House wanted to share. I'm surprised we are hearing about it at all unless it was leaked.

    Next they will be telling us Cheney had mad cow when he bagged the lawyer.

    •  You're right, they probably didn't want anyone (0+ / 0-)

      to know before the election...and/or they may just not have thought it's very important (Bush's doctors may be as ignorant about Lyme as many other doctors are), and are telling us now because they think he's cured and that it was no big deal.

      Also, I doubt this was much of a factor in their suppressing it, but Lyme is a global warming issue... increasing awareness about Lyme is not in Bush's best interest at all.

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