Chairman Waxman Talks About Impeachment

Marcy Winograd posted a report on AfterDowningStreet.org about a meeting Chairman Waxman held with an impeachment delegation in his Los Angeles office on August 7:

Only six months ago, Congressman Waxman ruled out impeachment, this time he indicated he would go forward with an open mind, all the while praising participants for their passion and urging them to lobby the members of the House Judiciary Committee.

What do you think we've been doing for 7 months, Chairman Waxman?  We don't need to be told who to contact, we know who to contact.  We've been imploring Democrats to start Impeachment hearings, but they won't.  We've asked them by phone.  By email.  By fax.  On blogs, and face to face in Congressional offices coast to coast.  We've begged them politely, we've begged them with barely restrained fury, we've begged them to enforce the Constitution in every pleading, imploring, respectful form of communication imaginable.

We're doing everything we can to end this Bush/Cheney rampage against the Constitution, Chairman Waxman.  Can you say the same?

In response to the pleas of the 14 Impeachment activists in the meeting:  

Waxman insisted that a successful impeachment trial would necessitate strong and convincing evidence to persuade both Democrats and Republicans that high crimes had been committed. In the next breath, Waxman recited a litany of Bush and Cheney's crimes, everything from the Iraq war to the outing of a CIA agent to illegal wiretapping. "You sound like you are delivering the opening argument for an impeachment trial," said Winograd. With good humor, Waxman nodded and smiled.

With all due respect, Chairman Waxman, I'm not sure what there is to smile about. Never in more than two-centuries of American politics have so many pathological liars, abusers of power, brazen hypocrites, and brutally ignorant White House hacks created such a hellish mess of corruption, squalor, and betrayal.  Never in the history of American warfare has there been such a mind-numbing fiasco as this bloodbath in Iraq.  Never in the span of 43 presidencies has there been such a threat to American democracy as George W. Bush.

Your caution about Impeachment is not warranted, Chairman Waxman.   When he was advised by politicians to be cautious and non-confrontational as a bloody war and a lying president from Texas destroyed the faith of Americans in their government, Martin Luther King Jr replied, "If we do not act, we shall surely be dragged down the long, dark, and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight."

We have been dragged down a long, dark, and shameful corridor of time, Democrats. We've endured seven years worth of shame, thank you very much.  You were handed control of Congress last January, but you have squandered the power you were given.  Because of your unreasoning fear of Mr. 25 Percent, this shameful corridor of time we're trapped in is not getting lighter, it's getting darker and bloodier with every day that passes.  

There will be no escape without Impeachment.  An entire nation has been shamed and disgraced by a criminal president and vice-president, Chairman Waxman. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dead.  Our Constitution has been shredded, our laws have been broken, our government has been corrupted, our Treasury has been plundered, our Army has been shattered, and Democrats just send letters as George Walker Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney destroy our democracy with a smirk and a sneer.  

40 years ago, Dr. King spoke truth to power on behalf of a suffering nation, until an assassin silenced him.  But his determination and moral courage still live on in the hearts of every American who cherishes justice.  We've been speaking truth to power for years, Chairman Waxman, so we deserve more from you than a smile and a suggestion to call the House Judiciary Committee.  

Do determination and moral courage still exist in the hearts of Congressional Democrats, Chairman Waxman?  If so, I suggest you all start demonstrating some when you return to Capitol Hill in September.  If you don't summon the determination and moral courage to Impeach, these Bush White House assassins of American democracy are going to silence the Constitution forever.  

 

•  Tips for Impeachment

  by Rusty1776 on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 11:58:06 PM PDT

•  The problem with

  trying to impeach the group who holds all the cards
  makes it kinda hard to get ANY of the truth out.  Have
  you watched the hearings?  I don't recall, I can't
  remember, I can't say.... Ggggrrrrrrr!

  by lvillelass on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:09:37 AM PDT

  •  Inherent Contempt of Congress exists.

    I know they'd like us to forget it does.

    I'm betting cooling his ass in a jail cell would sharpen up ol' Abu's memory real good.

    by khereva on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:36:33 AM PDT

    •  Gonzales should be impeached...

      that would get him out of the way.

      by FreeFallin on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:57:29 AM PDT

      •  Tain't happenin, the FISA vote makes that sad...

        fact obvious.  Time to start focusing on primary challenges for 2008.

        by RFK Lives on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 06:22:15 AM PDT

        •  You need to provide your logic

          for statements like that.  There's nothing in the FISA vote that says Gonzales can't be impeached.

          Focus your time on elections, I do too, but I am multitasking I guess and give impeachment equal time...

          Take a look here:

          Impeach Gonzales

          by FreeFallin on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 09:54:33 AM PDT

          •  I think I understand

            RFK Lives' sentiment.  He was pro-impeachment I think until the latest FISA bullshit legislation.  However, I wish he'd just bow out if that's what he feels he must do without discouraging others or making efforts to step in other people's way.  

            To RFK Lives:
            There have been negative signals since before the elections from our dem leaders re impeachment.  It hasn't stopped the impeachment movement.  Different people have different thresholds for when they'll finally want impeachment, likewise for when they'll give up.  I'm not giving up.  I hope others aren't giving up.  If they fail to start impeachment proceedings it won't be because of me, it'll be on their heads for eternity.

            What if 100% of the public or Democrats demanded impeachment?  Would our reps still say "uh uh"?  I don't think so.  What about 90%? 80%? 70%?  Where do they draw the line where they'll decide they have to look alive?  We need to build public demand for impeachment, not diminish it.  And it's great there are many who want to challenge the naysayers in primaries- go for it! Put the pressure on. Throw the bums out.  Let them know they suck.  But don't get in the way.  In many ways the impeachment movement is building momentum.  If or when it doesn't happen, it will make successful primary challenges all the more likely.  Meanwhile, reps shouldn't get a free pass for their cowardice or complicity, now or then.

            by Susan Something on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 11:02:16 AM PDT

            •  Bravo! and thanks.. n/t

              by FreeFallin on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:31:41 PM PDT

              •  Hey, FreeFallin -

                :)

                We both recommended each other's posts, but it doesn't show on my end, both of our posts say (0+ / 0-) on my end.  It's only when I click on that 0 that the drop down thing shows your and my names.  This happens to me a lot - my comments list and sometimes posts don't reflect in number the actual recommends.  

                My question, (if you still manage to see this post on a now old thread), is does it look that way to you too, or is it just happening on my end?

                by Susan Something on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 11:11:28 AM PDT

                •  I'm having some probs right now too...

                  I DO like your posts!

                  I am not sure what the problem is, and I'll try to pay attention to it and see if I can get this problem answered in an open thread!

                  Thanks for letting me know!

                  by FreeFallin on Sat Aug 11, 2007 at 04:53:08 PM PDT

    •  I'll tell you something

      I don't think Gonzo would even talk if inherent contempt threw his ass in jail.  He'd hold out for a pardon.  These guys are so filthy dirty with high crimes and corruption they won't peep.  Inherent contempt would be one more swell way to write up one more article of impeachment, after he refused to comply, that's all.  They could impeach him now as sufficiently as impeach him then, and that would make him liable to criminal prosecution after '08 as well. The problem is our dems don't like to break a sweat.

      by Susan Something on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:43:05 AM PDT

  •  That's what impeachment is for

    a group or a president or a rogue civil officer or a tyrannical administration....who want to hold all the cards and won't tell the truth.  Once a president and/or his administration has crossed the line where the American people don't know what's going on and can't trust them, we have impeachment as a tool to remove them.  Our Democratic leaders are failing us, they should be explaining this to you.

    by Susan Something on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:34:54 AM PDT

  •  Under impeachment

    there is no "executive privilege" or ignoring subpoenas, if I remember correctly.

    by PBen on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:50:23 AM PDT

    •  There is much debate about this.

      No one seems to have a definitive answer, although I have encountered people on this site who speaking a great deal of authority and saying that there is as well as that there isn't.

      I think the bottom line is that there is NO executive privilege except for highly sensitive national security information in the context of a criminal investigation (US v Nixon).  It seems to me that this is the nub of dispute, with some people feeling that impeachment hearings are sufficiently like a criminal investigation to nullify privilege and others feeling that they are not.  (In Nixon, there WAS a criminal investigation and trial of the burglars that prompted the privilege claims from the WH to resist providing evidence in that criminal investigation; it was not in the context of impeachment hearings which, of course, never took place in Nixon's case.)

      As to ignoring subpoenas, there is NEVER any justification to do that.  No privilege under the sun gives anyone a right to ignore a subpoena.

      by Mother of Zeus on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:16:45 AM PDT

      •  The FBI and NSA are the burglers. n/t

        n/t

        by Habanero on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:23:03 AM PDT

        •  No one doubts that there

          are violations of law and crimes here, but it is not clear whether that counts unless they are being investigation/prosecuted separately as criminal matters.

          My thought is that since you can't prosecute an executive officer for criminal acts until you remove them from office, then investigation for "high crimes and misdemeanors" in the House MUST be sufficient to bring U.S. v. Nixon's rule into play.  But many people disagree, and the fact is that there is no legal authority one way or another on that question.  So it would be up to court interpretation.  Suppose this went to the Supremes.  Ugh.  I don't like our chances on that one.

          by Mother of Zeus on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:46:50 AM PDT

          •  I don't like our chances either. n/t

            n/t

            by Habanero on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 07:51:51 AM PDT

•  I'm not so sure

  Your caution about Impeachment is not warranted, Chairman Waxman.

  Actually, I think it is. Especially given the last week. Does anyone really think enough repubs would defect and vote to impeach? I don't. And isn't it likely that Reid or even Pelosi or the 41 who voted recently would try to undermine any efforts to impeach? I think they would.

  Going down in flames is not a plan.

  There are time when I think maybe it could. Maybe we could expose enough lies that Some Repubs would be convinced. I don't give that very good odds though.

  by brenda on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:16:51 AM PDT

•  Shall we start mailing him ALL of the books?

  Seems just about every other legal mind in American has now laid out the case(s) for impeachment and the legal premises.  We can mail him the books, the Constitution, the oaths of office, all of the petitions... let's see... and of course, the Bill Moyers Journal segment (which Bill is re-playing this week.  Don't those guys watch TV at least?)  

  We can also send him all of the Ex-Reagan administration officials' articles and pleas... suddenly they're all speaking out.  I'm waiting for Nancy to go on record, with a 'just say no to Cheney' statement.

  I wish I didn't believe this was just more 'pacify the angry netroots' talk.  Conyers made that 'when 3 more sign on' statement, and then three more Congressmen signed on to HR333 and it turned out, Conyers was just foolin!  

  Waxman, don't tease us... we've lost our sense of humor.

  By the way, found a great Lincoln quote tonight.  We can send this too... maybe he'll listen to Lincoln (since we're so obviously chopped liver.)

  Let every lover of liberty, every well-wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the revolution never to violate, in the least particular, the laws of the country and never to tolerate their violation by others. As the patriots of '76 did to the support of the declaration of independence, so to the support of the constitution and laws, let every American pledge his life, his prosperity and his sacred honor.

  Let every man remember that to violate the laws is to trample on the blood of his fathers and to tear the charter of his own and his children's liberty. Let reverence for the laws be breathed by every American mother to the lisping babe that prattles on her lap. Let it be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges. Let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in the legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. In short, let it become the political religion of the nation.

  Abraham Lincoln

  by feduphoosier on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:17:53 AM PDT

  •  NO. Waxman has all that.

    He knows all that.

    He doesn't need us to provide him information.  He needs us to provide him more political power. He does not have enough political power.  That is what he is trying to tell us.  That is what all of those who are already on our side in terms of the substance here are trying to tell us.

    We don't like to hear it because we feel like we are already working hard, but we haven't done jack shit yet.  That's the reality.  You think back to the protests of 3 decades ago.  We haven't done jack shit.  You think of what soldiers in Iraq are going through today while we sit here in our air conditioning typing away.  We haven't done jack shit.

    We can foam at the mouth all we want about how Waxman and Conyers haven't done enough, yadda yadda yadda, but that doesn't get us anywhere because ultimately the only thing we have control over is what we do.

    If we want impeachment, we should be planning a mass - and I mean MASS - demonstration in D.C.  It is cards on the table time.  I'll find a way to be there.

    If we fail to take serious, big action, we have only ourselves to blame.

    That said, I still recced the diary!  We need more impeachment diaries now because that is the only cure for the disease.  It's a partial cure, to be sure, but it is the first step.  It must be done.  It's like cutting out the cancer.  We need to follow up with chemo and radiation, but FIRST we've got to remove the tumor!!!!

    by Mother of Zeus on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:23:53 AM PDT

    •  We have a media problem

      Everyone now knows that if they bus to Washington for a march, it will miraculously never happen on the mainstream media -- that, unless there is violence, and the majority of these Americans are going because they want PEACE, not violence.  The media doesn't want any coverage of anything remotely connected with peace.  Therefore when marches, happen, they don't happen.  Anything that is done or said in favor of impeachment -- doesn't happen.  Several million of us could go to Washington and it would turn into 'several thousand.'

      If over 50% of Americans are now polling as in favor of impeaching Cheney and there is a bill already in the House Judiciary, and countless petitions honestly -- I fail to see how Congress needs anything else other than courage.  Congress could do a few things themselves, take a few risks of their own, don't you think?  People out here exhibit courage all the time... unseen, unrecorded and undefended.

      by feduphoosier on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 08:34:37 AM PDT

•  maybe

  it was a knowing smile...

  by Turkana on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:26:41 AM PDT

•  I'm *talking* about flapping my arms

  and flying to the moon.

  Call us when you actually do something, Mr. Waxman.

  by khereva on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:37:45 AM PDT

•  My earlier diary....

  has an interesting spin on impeachment...

  If you care to look:

  Gonzales, Ron Paul, Fein, Cohen, and Impeachment..

  by FreeFallin on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:54:28 AM PDT

•  Please Mr. Waxman

  at least talk about it....you could be the one who finally saves our country

  by chabuka on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:20:42 AM PDT

•  Thanks for the diary

  I've been curious about this since Michele2 brought the meeting up on Monday

  by forbodyandmind on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:24:42 AM PDT

•  Looking for comments on my action diary

  on impeachment Enough - Getting Organized.

  by forbodyandmind on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:28:08 AM PDT

  •  Terrific diary!

    What area of the country are you in, do you care to say?

    by Susan Something on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 02:23:20 AM PDT

    •  San Francisco n/t

      by forbodyandmind on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 02:37:52 AM PDT

      •  I'm in Central Ca!

        by dangangry on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:45:40 AM PDT

•  Thanks Rusty

  for not giving up.

  by Susan Something on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 01:29:47 AM PDT

•  Rusty great job

  by army193 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 02:42:17 AM PDT

•  Impeachment Proceedings Are Imperative

  It is necessary to start impeachment proceedings even though it will likely fail, in order to widely publicize the crimes of this administration.

  by drettmann on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:03:40 AM PDT

•  After the FISA vote

  I wouldn't be holding my breath, if I were you.

  by commonscribe on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:30:30 AM PDT

  •  I totally agree

    This is a party that can't even stand up to the president when the ball is in their court over FISA. How in the heck are they going to mount an impeachment investigation.

    Bush will say "Boo!" and they'll run like little children.

    by Naturegal on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 04:22:19 AM PDT

•  Heads Up on Bill Moyers 08/10

  Appears to be a continuation (not a repeat) of the impeachment discussion with Constitutional scholars Bruce Fein and John Nichols.  

  by pascal on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 03:37:09 AM PDT

•  As much as I want to see impeachment,

  Waxman has a point. The senate isn't going to convict Bush of "outing a CIA agent." That just doesn't pass the test of a credible charge. Nor are they going to convict him of illegal wiretapping, because even if there was a compelling case to make that he broke the law, rather than just interpreting it in a novel fashion (and let's face it: the collegial senate would let that play out in the courts), there are basically as many Republicans in the Senate as Democrats, with Cheney casting a tie-breaking vote, so there isn't nearly enough momentum to get Bush removed. I want to see Gonzales removed for perjury. Other than that, I'm just not sure what we can do. Yes, of course in another world, refusal to submit to congressional subpoenas would be impeachable, but in this world, we aren't going to muster 2/3's of the Senate on that.

  by steve davis on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 05:26:42 AM PDT