Daily Kos

pottery barn hawks and chaos hawks

Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:35:01 AM PDT

Check out this article by Kevin Drum of Washington Monthly. After neatly describing the war hawks' morphing first into "Pottery Barn hawks" and then into their current incarnation as "chaos hawks," he proceeds to challenge the "chaos hawk" prediction of catastrophic regional war if we leave Iraq. Read the whole thing. It's not very long.

THE CHAOS HAWKS....In the beginning were the War Hawks, and much did they counsel the powerful to do battle against the evildoer Saddam. Then came the war, and the looting, and the Heritage Foundation hordes, and the hawks lamented exceeding loud and many soon repented of their ways. Yea, verily, they presently transformed themselves into Pottery Barn Hawks, eager to fix the disaster they had helped create and thus redeem themselves in the eyes of the faithful. In the fullness of time, though, the disaster ripened and flowered and became impossible of resolution, and the hawks despaired. Success had become unachievable, yea unto their own generation and the generation to come after them. In short, life sucked.

So what's a Pottery Barn hawk to do? The answer, lately, is: become a Chaos Hawk. First, admit that Iraq is hopeless, thus demonstrating that you're not completely out to lunch.

<snip>

Having admitted, however, that the odds of a military success in Iraq are almost impossibly long, Chaos Hawks nonetheless insist that the U.S. military needs to stay in Iraq for the foreseeable future. Why? Because if we leave the entire Middle East will become a bloodbath. Sunni and Shiite will engage in mutual genocide, oil fields will go up in flames, fundamentalist parties will take over, and al-Qaeda will have a safe haven bigger than the entire continent of Europe.

Needless to say, this is nonsense. Israel has fought war after war in the Middle East. Result: no regional conflagration. Iran and Iraq fought one of the bloodiest wars of the second half the 20th century. Result: no regional conflagration. The Soviets fought in Afghanistan and then withdrew. No regional conflagration. The U.S. fought the Gulf War and then left. No regional conflagration. Algeria fought an internal civil war for a decade. No regional conflagration.

It shouldn't need to be pointed out that these chaos hawks are for the most part the same clowns who have been wrong about everything up until this point. They have no credibility.

Drum lays out a more realistic outcome that, while tragic, is unlikely to be less tragic if we stay:

But Iraq is already fighting a civil war, and that civil war will continue whether we stay or go. If we go it will likely become more intense, but also shorter lived. The eventual result, however, will almost certainly be the same: a de facto independent Kurdistan in the north and a Shiite theocracy in the south. The rest of the Middle East will, as usual, watch events unfold without doing much of anything about them, and will accept the inevitable results. The U.S., for its part, will remain in the north to protect Kurdistan, in the east in Afghanistan, in the west in the Mediterranean, and in the south in its bases in the Gulf. We'll hardly be absent from the region.

Drum fails to mention, however, the real reason for staying in Iraq, which is simply to stay in Iraq. We went in there in the first place to control the oil, and the people who took us in can't bring themselves to give that up. All the rest is bullshit, in my opinion. It's grossly immoral to use violence to control another country's resources, and it's similarly immoral to use violence to continue an occupation for the same reason. Throughout history, whenever a country commits such aggression, they come up with rationalizations to avoid looking soberly at the evil in the mirror. (This is of course standard human psychology.) Such imperial rationalizations are often variants of the classic "white man's burden" schtick, of which I would include the "Pottery Barn hawks," the "chaos hawks," and the part of the original invasion marketing regarding bringing freedom and democracy.

As for George Bush, I consider him a puppet in all of this. He is a delusional and insecure ignoramus, easily manipulated through flattery, a mere tool in the service of Cheney and the neo-con cabal. Their agenda predates the Bush presidency and was clearly spelled out in their various PNAC publications: invade Iraq and install a permanent military presence to control the oil thereby thwarting any challenges to our hegemony from China or Europe. That's why we went in. That's why we'll stay until either the oil runs out or real democracy actually functions and our government responds to the will of the American people.

cross-posted at miasmo.com

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Which post-withdrawal scenario is more likely?

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Tags: Iraq, Kevin Drum, withdrawal (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 15 comments

  •  I still worry about ethnic cleansing... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ivorybill
    and other negative consequences of a "run to the border" type of withdrawal by US forces with nothing else in its place.

    The answer doesn't lie with either "staying" or "going". The answer is tied up with a fundamental change in the mission of US forces, away from "fighting insurgents" -- whatever the hell that means -- to peacekeeping.

    An orderly transition from US-led forces to UN-led peacekeeping forces (with or without US military participation), accompanied by economic aid and a strict hands-off policy with regard to their political structure is the best possible solution.

    Too bad the debate continues to be presented as a two-sided coin where you can only choose "staying" or "leaving". The ultimate solution is most likely going to be something in the middle for quite some time to come.

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

    by kmiddle on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:38:32 AM PDT

    •  Great comment (0+ / 0-)

      I also read the Chaos Hawks article, and had the following thoughts:

      •  The civil war will likely become more violent when the US pulls out, but it may not necessarily be shorter... and the degree of violence could be really extreme.  The US needs to start a phased pull-out right now, but if some militia surrounds a Baghdad neighborhood and kills, say, 5000 civilians, then the US will be forced to shift focus to genocide prevention.
      •  Drum assumes that the US will protect the Kurds rather than hang them out to dry.  I hope this is the case, but the US abandoned the Kurds to slaughter in 1975, did nothing when Saddam gassed them in 1988, and was in the process of abandoning them in 1991 until public opinion forced 41 to act. The history is not good.  The US needs to negotiate something for the Kurds that keeps Turkey out and keeps their autonomy intact.  

      The issue that Drum ignores, and the debate on Iraq ignores, is that there needs to be work on the political front both within Iraq and regionally.  

      God, who gave man scabies, also gave him hands to scratch them.

      by ivorybill on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:44:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Kurds don't have the oil... (0+ / 0-)

        and therefore are likely to fungible.  

        The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

        by kmiddle on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:53:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Who is ignoring? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ivorybill, Evil Betty

        "The issue that Drum ignores, and the debate on Iraq ignores, is that there needs to be work on the political front both within Iraq and regionally."

        It seems to me that the only ones ignoring this are the Bushies. I'm fairly certain that Drum as well as 99% of the people who want to get out are in agreement with you on this point. This was a fairly brief article. I don't fault him for leaving out something which can be taken for granted to be obvious to any thoughtful person.

        You make a good point with regard to the Kurdish region. That doesn't mean we should maintain a military occupation of the rest of the country that doesn't want us there.

        •  Right about negotiation (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          miasmo

          Drum probably favors it.  I reacted against his article, however, because it seems a bit easy to say that the civil war is inevitable, and better we get out of the way and let it happen.  We do have to leave, no doubt about it, and we have to start now.  But I have spent years in Iraq (continuously from 1991-1994, with frequent trips 2003-now), and the amount of anger and capacity for violence is greater than Drum understands.  There must be a genocide prevention strategy.  I don't care if it's the UN, or the US, or whoever... but just because Petreus and Bush are willing to use fear of chaos as a political weapon, doesn't mean that chaos won't occur - possibly on an epic scale.  We need a strategy for that.

          God, who gave man scabies, also gave him hands to scratch them.

          by ivorybill on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:14:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The difference is, though... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        miasmo

        ....now, the Kurds tend to be more united (which was always a huge problem for them) and better armed. Sunni and Shi'ite Iraqis are tied up with each other now, so the Kurds will probably be able to go their own way. The Turks won't be too happy about that, but that was going to happen in any case.

    •  straw man (0+ / 0-)

      "An orderly transition from US-led forces to UN-led peacekeeping forces (with or without US military participation), accompanied by economic aid and a strict hands-off policy with regard to their political structure is the best possible solution."

      Make that "without US military participation" and we are in agreement. You seem to be buying into the hawks straw man over-simplification of the "leaving" side of the debate.

      •  Without US participation? (0+ / 0-)

        The UN is not going to unilaterally enter Iraq to protect civilian populations without US support, including military support.  No country is going to contribute troops.  The wisest tactic would be to shift strategies, begin a pull-out and beg for the UN to increase its presence as the US decreases its troop levels. But to expect the UN to take over without US miliary participation, or for the US to pull out, the fighting to flare, and then ask the UN to enter - that's simply unrealistic.  In fact, the UN is unlikely to take a significant role in Iraq anyway, because nobody is going to put their soldiers in the middle of what is going to turn into a very hot civil war.

        God, who gave man scabies, also gave him hands to scratch them.

        by ivorybill on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:58:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Announce a firm deadline (0+ / 0-)

          The best way to make more likely any U.N. participation is to announce a firm date for complete withdrawall. Iraq is a mess already. Civil war and "ethnic cleansing" (genocide) are already happening. As long as we're there, our presence will be correctly interpreted by the region and the world as that we are there to control the oil and have power and leverage over the rest of the world. They will have no motivation to help out, because we are threatening imperialist dicks and it's our problem so ha ha. Once we make it clear we're leaving, the whole situation will be seen in a different light. That is the best chance for the UN and Iraq's neighbors to have a greater stake in a positive outcome.

          And logistical realities necessitate a long enough withdrawall timeframe for the rest of the world to come to grips with the situation and take whatever action they are willing to take.

      •  No. Just acknowledging... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        miasmo
        that there is a rock, there is a hard place, and there is the space in between where we find ourselves.

        I agree it would be ideal to have a UN-based peacekeeping mission that did not rely on American forces. But where do those troops come from? It seems that the available alternatives are unacceptable to one or more of the parties involved.

        Arab League forces would probably only exacerbate the religious tensions, same with secular Islamic forces. Turkey's out for the obvious reasons. European forces (France, Germany) may be a partial solution, but you're not seeing anyone raise their hands to volunteer, and I can't imagine under what scenario that would be viable politically in those countries. China and Russia are clearly unacceptable to the US because of the strategic implications. India would be worse because of the historical enmity with Pakistan, and Pakistan can't even handle its own internal affairs. Australia is "US-lite", and besides, they're already "drawing down".

        Which leaves us what? Japan? South Korea? African Union (HAH!)? Iceland? Argentina? Brazil? Thailand? Vietnam (again, HAH!)?

        US forces assigned to non-US commanders under the UN flag with a vastly different mission (180-degree opposite, in fact) is probably what's going to end up occurring.

        Of course, all of this is just me flapping my gums, since I have the ear of neither the Misadministration nor of the Democratic Party leadership. What I think should happen will have no resemblance whatsoever to what will happen.

        The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it -- GB Shaw

        by kmiddle on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:19:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, it's all fucked up. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Evil Betty

          There are no good solutions. Only educated guesses about a least tragic one. The current situation is already horribly tragic and shows no signs of abating. I don't think Drum's prediction is an unrealistic pie-in-the-sky one. The civil war "will likely become more intense, but also shorter lived." It's horribly tragic, but it's not at all clear that it's not the least tragic outcome possible at this point. But the key issue is that the US has no moral authority or moral credibility to make any unilateral decisions in Iraq. We need to recuse ourselves. Any influence we have in the region should be as a single vote in the Security Council and a single vote in the General Assembly. After our aggressive invasion and occupation for oil, it is a tragic joke to pretend to have some special moral leadership to make any such decisions. We're drunk with power and we need to hand over the car keys to someone else.

  •  Chaos was the first, last and only goal (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    miasmo, metal prophet, Evil Betty

    except it was called "destabilization."

    The neocon view was that the Middle East was too stable to accommodate needful change and democratic reform. The only way to remold the Middle East in the image of, say, Western Europe was to crack open one of those states like a piñata and let the withheld goodies of freedom shower down on the people. Whose neighbors would then demand more democracy from their governments. Which state would be easiest to crack? The one without WMDs.

    We all know chaos queens. I like "chaos hawks." Well put--good diary.

    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

    by ticket punch on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:39:09 AM PDT

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