Daily Kos

Dodd, Edwards, Obama, and the presentation of false choices

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:15:24 PM PDT

Barack Obama earlier this week promised us a new, comprehensive Iraq policy, foreshadowed his statement with his questioning of Petraeus and Crocker at yesterday's Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, and today released excerpts of his prepared remarks in advance of his speech. When he delivered the promised update of his Iraq policy position earlier today (h/t Adam B for full text) -- in revision of his plans laid out in January -- John Edwards and Christopher Dodd had received ample opportunity to prepare responses, clarifying anti-war credentials. They obliged.

However, before we discuss responses and approaches, and Iraq policy I'd like to highlight one of the most meaningful aspects of Obama's speech Wednesday.

President Bush likes to warn of the dire consequences of ending the war. He warns of rising Iranian influence, but that has already taken place. He warns of growing terrorism, but that has already taken place. And he warns of huge movements of refugees and mass sectarian killing, but that has already taken place. These are not the consequences of a future withdrawal. They are the reality of Iraq’s present. They are a direct consequence of waging this war. Two million Iraqis are displaced in their own country. Another two million Iraqis have fled as refugees to neighboring countries. This mass movement of people is a threat to the security of the Middle East and to our common humanity. We have a strategic interest – and a moral obligation – to act.

The President would have us believe there are two choices: keep all of our troops in Iraq or abandon these Iraqis. I reject that choice. We cannot continue to put this burden on our troops alone. I’m tired of this notion that we either fight foolish wars or retreat from the world. We are better than that as a nation.

...and earlier in the speech:

George Bush suggests that there are two choices with regard to Iran. Stay the course in Iraq or cede the region to the Iran. I reject this choice. Keeping our troops tied down in Iraq is not the way to weaken Iran – it’s precisely what has strengthened it. President Ahmadinejad may talk about filling a vacuum in the region after an American drawdown, but he’s badly mistaken. It’s time for a new and robust American leadership. And that should begin with a new cooperative security framework with all of our friends and allies in the Persian Gulf.  

Administration policy to stay the course in Iraq is now wholly based on the false choice:
Stay the course or surrender.
Support the surge or immediate, disorderly withdrawal.
Hawk or Dove.
With us or against us.

These artificial dichotomies may and have been discredited on their merits. Staying the course is unlikely to produce a new, effectual result. The surge is an impotent measure against the problem at hand of diplomatic reconciliation. However, arguing those merits isn't completely necessary when the original formulation of the question is fallacious. Practical policy is not constructed out of unrealistic ideological extremes. We're accustomed to rejecting this from the Bush administration, so we should be equally attentive to its use by our own candidates.

Ending aside, what did Dodd and Edwards have to say?

Dodd:

I was disappointed that Senator Obama's thoughts on Iraq today didn't include a firm, enforceable deadline for redeployment, and dismayed that neither he nor Senator Clinton will give an unequivocal answer on whether they would support a measure if it didn't have such an enforceable deadline.

...

I urge Senators Obama and Clinton not to backtrack on the need for a firm, enforceable deadline and state clearly and directly whether they will support an Iraq measure if it does not include one.

or... Either you echo my call, or you do not oppose non-restricted supplemental funding.

I reject this choice. Senator Obama has already opposed continued supplemental funding of the Iraq war without restrictions. There is no cause for him to explicitly address Dodd's call in order to state his position on Iraq policy. The speech was meant to update the position statement resting in place since January, and to react to the testimony of Petraeus and Crocker in the preceding days.

There are several potential approaches to opposing the funding bill. One is direct: no timing then no money. The other is indirect: tear down the administration's case for continuation. Dodd received what he asked for- an unequivocal answer that the war must end now and the troops must be extricated from combat situations by the end of the coming year, as fast as Obama considers feasible from consulting with military advisors, and he based this upon the recognition that the surge was not effective, political progress is not forthcoming and there is no military solution to the problem. These arguments will emerge in the debate that has not yet taken place.

Edwards:

Senator Obama would withdraw only 1-2 combat brigades a month between now and the end of next year, which for the next several months could essentially mimic the president's own plans to withdraw 30,000 troops by next summer.

...

Enough is enough. We don't need to 'begin' to end the war now. What we need to do now is actually end the war.

...

Congress must stand firm and say: No timetable, no funding. No excuses.

My plan, or you are not "ending" the war.

I reject this choice as well. Obama provided a specific "timetable" for troop withdrawal, John, one that cannot remotely be confused with Bush's approach to the Iraq war, given that it calls for all combat troops to have been withdrawn by the time that either Edwards or Obama takes office. There is no literal difference between "beginning to end" and "ending" this war, and Edwards' semantic accusation distracts from any difference that might be made of it. Obama argues that the withdrawal cannot be conducted responsibly at a greater rate. Does Edwards disagree, and on what basis does he do so? If Edwards believes withdrawal can happen more quickly, then that is a valid criticism. Instead, he chose to manufacture an artificial distinction.

Edwards and Dodd offered false choices meant to identify themselves as the preferred anti-war candidate. These distract from any meaningful construction of Iraq War policy, as we head into another key debate on the subject in congress. Candidates need to call upon those Senators who do not already oppose supplemental funding. Candidates need to add to a reasonable alternative plan. Candidates need to cease their game of pacifist oneupmanship in order to avoid margianalizing their position, and consequently strengthening the position of those who will continue to support the war.

Additional threads for discussion:

Dodd, Edwards, Obama and Iraq h/t TomP for setting the campaign statements together.

Stop it!!!, the imperative to those discussing the Iraq debate from kredwyn.

The Anti-War Primary Now Has a Name from viralvoice.

Tags: Barack Obama, John Edwards, Chris Dodd, 2008 primaries, Iraq War (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 25 comments

  •  It's not a false choice (5+ / 0-)

    if there are really only two options.

    To fund or not to fund, and until when? that is the relevant question.

    Daily Kos used to be worthwhile.

    by andgarden on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:24:44 PM PDT

    •  not to fund... (3+ / 0-)

      ...is the correct answer... but Christopher Dodd and John Edwards do not have exclusive claim to that answer and they do not have any claim to how the question is best asked.

      We noticed in the lobbyist contributions debate Edwards' call for Obama to echo his demand for other candidates to refuse such funding, resulting in the famous statement that Obama acknowledges that he is swimming in dirty water and that the system itself is broken. He agreed with Edwards in the identification of the problem, but emphasized his own approach on the subject.

      These instances demonstrate that Obama is, for better or worse, not going to operate on other candidates' scripts. He will agree funding requires restriction, and he will agree the war must end, but he will call for it in his own way.

      An honest motion for a consensus Democratic position to end the war is not going to take place in an exchange of press releases- Chris, John, Barack: pick up the phone, talk about what can be done, then do it.

      Then shout about it to each other.

    •  defunding is not an option (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      emilymv

      Defunding the war is not an option. Bush will leave them in Iraq starving without pay and no ammunition. As much as I loathe this war I'm not willing to leave the troops to the vagrancies of Bush's ego. Obamas is right to call for a planned withdrawl. Anyone who doesn't understand that a withdrawl of combat troops includes the support troops for those combat troops is to dumb to be president.

      •  bullshit (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pkbarbiedoll, RIP Russ

        Daily Kos used to be worthwhile.

        by andgarden on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:54:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  there is defunding, and then there is (0+ / 0-)

        defunding. As Kos argued in the morning and as Obama and others have suggested previously, obstinance from Bush could be addressed with shorter-term appropriations targeted at maintaining political pressure on republicans to the point that they abandon pro-war positions (or, in the unfortunate worst-case scenario, until they pay the price in popular support). Defunding is not the "only" approach to changing course in Iraq through legislative means, and unfortunately the calls of Dodd, Edwards and Kucinich are making that seem to be the case. Keep the pressure on in every way possible- sticks, stones and slogans alike.

      •  "to dumb to be president" (sic) (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        123Mary123

        The Pentagon has an operating budget that should be used for redeployment support.  

        The war is over.  Stop funding it NOW.

        The sun is setting on Saxby Chambliss. It's Knight-time!! - Rand Knight, Georgia's U.S. Senate candidate

        by pkbarbiedoll on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 03:51:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  THIS is exactly why Obama needs to say the words (0+ / 0-)

        NO FUNDING without a timetable. He is building consensus for the republican frame that not funding hurts the troops. He is not helping democrats stand strong against republican opposition in congress by doing this.

        •  this is simply false... (0+ / 0-)

          He is building consensus for the republican frame that not funding hurts the troops.

          As noted before, Obama voted against the recent supplemental that lacked timetables. There is no content within his speech that supports your contention here and significant evidence against...

          "When he vetoes that bill, we are going to have to go back and say what are the other ways we can ratchet up the pressure on the president," he said. "There are a whole range of options. We could say, OK, we're going to fund the war in three-month increments and keep you on a shorter leash, or we're going to try to constrain you and let you veto the bill again."

          Obama in April '07

          He is building the case against a non-restricted appropriations bill. You do not have exclusive claim to how that must be done.

  •  There is the matter of winning and loosing... (2+ / 1-)

    Recommended by:
    dolphin777, xysea
    Hidden by:
    bronte17

    Can someone tell me what the actual objective of this war really is?  I am not in favor of loosing another war, weakening America, or being attacked on American soil by fascist Islam.  On the other hand, I am not in favor of loosing more American lives to safeguard oil supplies in the Middle East.

    If Congress defunds the war, then we have to pull out.  That does leave a power vacuum in the area, and without question Iran will attempt to fill it.  On the other hand, continued funding when the Iraqi government is as cowardly as our so-called "leaders" in the House and Senate (a couple of gutless wonders indeed) assures that our men and women in Iraq will continue to die.

    No one seriously thinks that the US military cannot achieve any military objective it is given - it is the most formidable fighting force the world has ever seen.  At the same time, no one seriously thinks that Iraqi leadership has any other agenda than to line their own pockets with US dollars and then spend the rest of their lives on the beaches of the French Riviera sipping martinis.  So we have met our military objective - stability in the region is at an all time high.  The local government, on the other hand, continues to do nothing.  So we win - but we are stuck.

    Are we over there really because Bush wants to protect oil with American lives?  What kind of leadership is that?  I am starting to think that Pelosi and Reid are in cahoots with Bush trying to protect big oil.  They talk big, but they do nothing.  Hillary - hah!  Like she did something about it last time, when this whole stinkhole was developing.  All we need is a menopausal wimp woman without enough guts to kick out her cheating husband in charge to screw with things.  We need to find a leader.  

    What do you all think of establishing a new military tactic - establish a clear military objective that includes the death of as many fascist Islamic leaders as possible (including Bin Laden), tell the Iraqi people that they need to establish their own government without our help, win as quickly as possible with absolutely no limitations placed on our troops - rules of engagement are kill the enemy - to get the job done, and then get out of there.  Then, if the new Iraqi government turns out to be another terrorist fascist Islamic cesspool, do it all over again.  We can do it with smart bombs, missiles, air raids, and such, and put the risk to American life at a minimum.  And keep our shores free from terrorist vermin.

    Are there any liberals out there with enough sand to fight a *&^% war?  Where is Franklin Roosevelt when you need him?  We are led by wimps.  Wimps!  

    I am tired of loosing American lives to keep Iraqi casualties to a minimum.  If they don't have enough sand to build a government that opposes terrorism, then it won't matter much if they die from our bombs or their parents strapping bombs on them and sending them out to meet their 70 virgins.

    If they need something to keep the peace over there, let us move the United Nations to Iraq.  Saddam Hussein built a big palace in his rebuilt Babylon, and Babylon would be a perfect place to put the U.N.  Then the rest of the world can carry their share of the load to keep the peace.  That would save us the cost of the UN, get the idiotic world governments off our shores, save us a ton of money, and let us mind our own business.

    Come on!  If you are really a liberal, start thinking outside the box!  Quit all the shouting, and lets get moving!    

    •  I am a liberal and I want peace (0+ / 0-)

      We're spending billions of dollars per day in Iraq for what?  Killing and maiming people?  Being killed and maimed ourselves?  

      My lord, I'm a little skeptical of any Democrat calling for continued war operations in Iraq.  We fucked up going there.  It's a bad situation and probably won't get much better anytime soon.

      As another Kossack said,

      Withdraw today, start war reparation discussions tomorrow.  

      The sun is setting on Saxby Chambliss. It's Knight-time!! - Rand Knight, Georgia's U.S. Senate candidate

      by pkbarbiedoll on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 03:56:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  My gawd, you're a real piece of work (0+ / 0-)

      Just horrible that you wrote that and even worse that someone recommended it.

      Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshall

      by bronte17 on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 06:46:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would think... (0+ / 0-)

      I am tired of loosing American lives to keep Iraqi casualties to a minimum.  If they don't have enough sand to build a government that opposes terrorism, then it won't matter much if they die from our bombs or their parents strapping bombs on them and sending them out to meet their 70 virgins.

      I would think that compassion is our most important virtue, particular being "liberals."

  •  Wait a second? (0+ / 0-)

    Didn't Dodd speak out against the previous supplemental before voting for it? Doesn't that make him slightly hypocrital?

  •  I disagree with this... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    xysea

    Either you echo my call, or you do not oppose non-restricted supplemental funding

    Either you make that point in your speech and LEAD congress to deny funding without timetables if neccessary or you are just sneaking in to vote in a politically correct way with no 'consensus building' whatsoever. He has already compared congress' power of the purse to "playing chicken with the troops". He needs to rebutt HIMSELF and make clear that he will do what it takes to end this war otherwise, we have no reason to believe that he has changed his mind and his speech is empty. BEGIN withdrawing troops? Isn't that what Bush's speech is supposed to be about anyway? Wait until Bush says that he will BEGIN to withdraw troops and then say the same yourself? Is that the consensus building we need?

    •  except... (0+ / 0-)

      otherwise, we have no reason to believe that he has changed his mind

      We have his last vote on the subject, which is truly the most relevant measure. We have the fact that he has torn down the arguments Bush will be using to push his course on the war, just as John Edwards will be doing later today.

      BEGIN withdrawing troops? Isn't that what Bush's speech is supposed to be about anyway? Wait until Bush says that he will BEGIN to withdraw troops and then say the same yourself? Is that the consensus building we need?

      Bush having not yet given his speech yet, I can't say for certain, but I will predict with extreme confidence that it will not involve the removal of all combat troops by the end of '08.

      If you feel a responsible withdrawal may be conducted more rapidly, please argue that point. Pretending that Obama is not advocating an end to the war ignores that relevant argument, and blatantly ignores the consensus that already exists between my candidate and yours.  

  •  Here's the issue (0+ / 0-)

    We have 8 candidates for the Dem nomination. All 8 of them want to bring our troops home. We can quibble about the small differences in their plans, but they all want them home. But none of that accomplishes anything until January 2008.

    So, the question is, what can we do before then? We can have these candidates give all the speeches and proposals they want. We can pass bills (maybe). But none of it will accomplish anything. Bush will veto any On that question, Hillary and Obama have chosen to say nothing. Last spring, they waited until the funding had passed before emerging from their offices to vote no. They hadn't advanced an opinion until then. They are doing the same now.

    So, whine because someone dares to criticize Saint Obama. But the fact is, on the defining issue of the day and the one tactic available to do something about it, he has chosen not to lead. At all.

    RIP #21 Sean Taylor

    by RIP Russ on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 05:40:57 AM PDT

    •  how... cogent... (0+ / 0-)

      But the fact is, on the defining issue of the day and the one tactic available to do something about it

      Defunding is not the only tactic available and it is shortsighted of you, or anyone, to consider it as such.

      So, whine because someone dares to criticize Saint Obama.

      No one is calling him a saint. It is you contention that he must satisfy YOUR language in order to vocally oppose a bill he already, obviously, opposes. In effect, you question his wording, rather than his meaning and consequently your rant here more precisely fits the definition of a "whine."

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