Pleading our case (FL) but not what you think

As you know, we here in Florida are being punished because our legislature voted to move our primary date to January 29th.  The DNC gave plenty of warning to our legislators, and to our state party that we would be punished severely, those warnings were ignored.

Keep reading, please....

Here's what I've learned about the issue:

-There are too many egos involved on both sides of this issue, in Washington, Tallahassee, and elsewhere around the state
-Our state chair doesn't control any of these egos and neither does Howard Dean
-The most damaging result of this decision will be the depressed Dem turnout and its implications for a property tax amendment placed on the ballot by the Republicans
-The grassroots volunteers are being hit hardest by this mess

Now here are my thoughts and observations:

-The DNC had no choice but to enforce the rules
-The primary rules suck
-I don't want Florida to be an early primary state because it will mean the media will have too much influence in the candidate selection process
-I hate the whiners who are crying to the press about voter disenfranchisement because every time they use that term, they are reinforcing the idea that the votes won't count, thus depressing Democratic turnout in the primary
-My job as a district leader in the local Democratic party has been made harder by this decision (I seem to spend half my time trying to explain and justify what the f*ckin' Democrats are doing!)
-The pledge the candidates have signed not to campaign here is very damaging to our grassroots efforts (much anger and dissension in the ranks)
-For information purposes only, the FDP can't control the players here so the 30 days you gave us to move the primary means nothing
-(Disclaimer: I'm a Deaniac) Democrats with ties to DFA don't seem to have an agenda beyond wanting to build our party

And finally, my plea to the DNC:

Please allow the candidates to come here to campaign.  That's all we ask!

Susan Smith
Odessa, FL

 

•  I hope more states defy the DNC

  The prospect of 10 or even 20 states being stripped of their delegates, and the resulting train wreck that would cause, would put pressure on the DNC to change this unfair presidential primary system.

  by BlueTide on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:16:29 PM PDT

  •  sorry, but I think that's an idiotic response

    whether or not the process should change, doing by blowing it up will only damage the party for the current election cycle

    the DNC is the organization which sets the rules, and it has representatives from all 50 states.  States were allowed to apply to be added to the earlier window.  Florida did not even apply.

    The unwillingness of some states to even try the new system represents little more than a desire for money to be spent in their states, and I am not sympathetic.

    And while I rarely use harsh language here,  I stand by that in the subject line - I think blowing up the system now would be idiotic.

    by teacherken on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:21:31 PM PDT

    •  Florida didn't apply because the FDP

      didn't want to go early.  It was our legislators who voted with the Republicans and screwed us.  The party didn't want an early primary.

      by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:26:27 PM PDT

    •  As I said, I agree with the DNC decision

      to take away our delegates.  But I wish they would allow the candidates to campaign here.

      by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:27:44 PM PDT

      •  I don't.

        I couldn't disagree more.

        I think the DNC should have decreased our delegates significantly. On top of that they should stack on whatever other punishments to whomever else they decide is responsible. But to take away all the delegates takes away the vote from the people. And we didn't create this mess.

        As far as candidates not campaigning here, I'm fine with that. But don't make exceptions for some events and fund raisers. Because it sends the message that all they want is our money.

        I'm sorry that the whole mess has made your job harder. I'm hoping my non-news-watching mom doesn't find out about the whole mess. I sure as hell am not telling her after it took me years to get her to vote for the Dems (she wasn't Repub just a non-voter).

        by Step Beyond on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:26:45 PM PDT

    •  Well I think your response is idiotic

      To allow two small homogenous states to virtually always determine the nominees for president is simply idiotic and undemocratic.

      Also, the DNC is overreacting. By stripping these states all of their delegates is only going to cause a train wreck in the Democratic Party. In addition, Michigan and Florida will vote Republican in 2008.

      The RNC is smarter than the DNC as they will only strip rogue states half of their delegates. The punishment is more proportional and will not cause the Republican Party to split. The Democratic Party has a habit of self destructing.

      by BlueTide on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:41:18 PM PDT

      •  That's silly.

        First of all, Florida is probably going to be a Red state for the next few cycles.  Changing demographics there are not favorable to the Dems.  The insurance mess may blunt that to some extent depending on how it all falls out.

        But the real silly thing is that this would make people more likely to vote Republican overall.  It's purely inside baseball stuff.  Florida's primary was scheduled to be irrelevant, and it's still going to be irrelevant.  The 95% of voters who don't vote in presidential preference primaries don't care.  If they can't be bothered to vote in the stupid thing, what makes you think it's going to influence how they vote?

        by Rob Mac K on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 05:52:28 AM PDT

    •  Teacherken

      I very much respect you, and always seem to be replying to you in disagreement. I am sorry about that.

      But I think you are wrong about the entire issue.

      Let me start by setting the stakes.  At Openleft a couple of weeks ago I reviewed how Iowa and New Hampshire effect National Polling.  While this may seem a boring topic, what I showed was the two states have effectively taken over the nomination process.  The winner in New Hampshire gets a 25 point bounce in the national polls within a few days after the primary is completed.

      http://www.openleft.com/...

      In 2004 this created so much momentum that race was effectively over NH.  You can see how this is effecting candidate visits, which Chris Bowers documents on Openleft here:
      http://www.openleft.com/...

      Note that candidates have visited Iowa and New Hampshire nearly 800 times, and Florida less than 50.  Florida, like California and other big states, are merely ATM machines for candidates.

      What we are witnessing, I think, is the growing realization on the part of the rest of the country that they have little role in the nomination for President.  Those states are taking action on their own.

      You write that the DNC wrote the rules, but at no point has New Hampshire ever agreed to play by these rules. In fact, the DNC rules themselves were written in complete fear of the NH law that provides no "similar event" can occur within 7 days of the nomination.  Please note that NH has not set a date for its primary.  Only the Secretary of State for NH can do this, and he doesn't answer to the DNC. It for this reason that the DNC did not challenge the fundamentally undemocratic nature of the nominating process when it created its rules.

      Moreover, at no point will NH accept the DNC decision to place Nevada ahead of NH.  See this article at CNN, and note particularly the comments by the NH Democratic Party Chairwoman Kathleen Sullivan who noted "we will not be intimidated"
      http://www.cnn.com/...

      Susan S does not like the term voter disenfranchisement.  She is very well respected activist in Tampa, and has far more right to talk about this issue than I have.  But in fact, I beg to differ.  In fact, the current primary calendar works to disenfranchise everyone but those who live in Iowa, NH and to some extent South Carolina.

      The actions of Florida and Michigan are the start of a push to address the absurd power that has been conferred to Iowa and New Hampshire.

      As long as the National Parties so absurdly defer to Iowa and NH, they have NO moral standing to oppose the decisions of elected representatives.

      In fact, I am all for chaos, because that is what it will take to end the insanity.

      by fladem on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:10:42 PM PDT

      •  You make excellent points and thanks

        for your kind words.

        I don't like the term because I don't want the voters to be discouraged from going to the polls on January 29th.

        by Susan S on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:32:33 AM PDT

      •  so you don't believe in Democracy?

        it was the vote of the members of the DNC to keep those two states first, but to add additional states in the early window.

        OF what point is there in having a party organization if you can go your own way if you disagree with its decisions.  Does not that make you like Joe Lieberman who when he loses the primary decides to run as an independent anyhow, not accepting what has been expressed in an open vote?

        Do I think Iowa and NH should have the exclusive position they do?  Nope, never have.  But I think there are ways around that, which require the parties to act appropriately, which means through their own rules voting to change -  whether or not you think they have an absurd amount of power is separate from how you challenge that power.

        I would prefer to see rotating regional primaries, or rotating early states.  In the latter case, I would want two to four relatively small (6 or fewer EVs) scattered across the country, to offer different perspectives.  

        Of course, flying back and forth across the country is expensives, which is why idea of rotating sequences of regional primaries, with perhaps two weeks between each region, appeals to me.

        But the changes have to come through regular order of the party, not by legislatures and governors deciding that they are going to jump the queue.

        Absent an enforcement mechanism the entire process breaks down into the kind of chaos now facing both parties.  

        SORRY, but my response was to the specifics of the comment - that the author hoped that 10 or 20 states would jump the queue to force the issue.  That to me is idiotic, and would portray the democrats as so disorganized in their own party affairs how could they be trusted with control of the levers of government.

        I understand Susan's frustration.  I spent a good deal of time talking with her at Yearlykos in Chicago.  But that does not warrant the kind of reckless talk in the comment to which I responded.

        by teacherken on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 06:19:56 AM PDT

•  Make it non-binding and they will campaign

  and the DNC has even offered $$ to pay some of the costs of a later caucus to formally select delegates

  I do not think DNC had any choice - and the campaigning is necessary if the entire process is not going to break down with even more leapfrogging

  by teacherken on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:17:49 PM PDT

  •  Apparently, the caucus we could do

    with the money that's available won't meet the voting rights requirements.  Our FDP would LOVE a statewide caucus using paper ballots, but the cost is prohibitive ($8 million).  The DNC has offered us $800K which would allow for 150 polling sites.  In a state this size, that is unworkable.

    by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:22:54 PM PDT

    •  Excuses, Excuses

      That's defeatist talk.

      If you want it to happen, it will happen.

      The money will be found.

      If it doesn't happen, it only means y'all didn't care enough to make it happen.

      Nobody buys the victim rap. The moment the candidates all signed the pledge not to change the rules in the middle of the game, these appeals became useless.

      Change the delegate selection date. That's your only hope of seeing the candidates for anything other than fundraising events.

      by viralvoice on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:32:55 PM PDT

      •  Please tell me how n/t

        by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:36:35 PM PDT

        •  It's called organizing

          You get your local Democratic State Committeepersons to propose it and start a campaign for people who feel the same way to call the rest of them around the state.

          You get the people already committed to any of the presidential candidates to join in that call because they want to see their candidates.

          You get the state committee to say how much money it will really cost and then put out the call nationwide. The money will come! And Florida is not a poor state, either. Heck, I'd give some money for it, too. And there are thousands more like me that, all put together, would add up.

          When life deals you lemons, make lemonade. I think you would get a lot of support right here on DKos to aid in such a campaign. It's a much better strategy than asking candidates or the DNC to go back on the pledge. That's simply not going to happen.

          by viralvoice on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:41:48 PM PDT

          •  You don't seem to understand...

            We've got our f*cking US Senators whining to the press about how our votes aren't counting.  We've got state committeemen and women blaming Howard Dean for not counting the votes.  We've got state legislators thumbing their noses at Howard Dean.  And you expect us to "organize?"  Do you understand that I spend 3/4 of my god-damn time doing just that?

            What I'm saying is that the voters are the ones being hurt.  They have no voice in any of this.  The egos of those in power are killing us.  I don't give a shit about delegates.  All I'm asking is that the candidates get to come here without penalty.  

            Once again, the BIGGEST issue is depressed turnout in January.  If we have a non-binding primary, we will have fewer people show up to defeat the property tax amendment.  That will hurt us in unbelievable ways (cuts to schools, libraries, fire and police departments, etc.)

            by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:49:40 PM PDT

            •  Good Luck, Then

              Defeatism never won a battle. If the party leaders are immune to a grassroots movement from within the party, then it's the D-e-m-o-c-r-a-t-i-c party in name only.

              by viralvoice on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:56:31 PM PDT

              •  If the last 5 years have taught us anything...

                ...it's that people who call other people "defeatists" are usually the ones with little understanding about the problem at hand.  You, my friend, sound utterly clueless, both about Florida's dysfunctional party and about the actual costs of grassroots activism.

                by JR on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 10:29:43 PM PDT

            •  I voted for Dean

              So I don't fault Dean with the predicament we are in. This unfair primary system has been with us for decades so Dean simply inherited the system. But as I said in the comment above, the DNC is overreacting. The RNC has more sense to only punish rogue states by stripping half of their delegates. Hopefully, all the state parties, national parties and state legislatures will be able to agree with a sensible primary system for 2012 and beyond.

              by BlueTide on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:19:52 PM PDT

            •  Thank you Susan!

              I appreciate your work. And living in Florida I bet you've worked your ass off bucking against those in power.

              Don't listen to those who seem to think that we could just whip together a solution because we're Floridians so they'll listen to us. They aren't here and have no idea what you must be going up against. They live in a state where apparently a party responds to the people. And where they work together for a good cause. And that ain't Florida.

              Did you read that one of the candidates for Mayor in Key West is suggesting hiring the homeless and dressing them up like pirates to pick up trash? Did that at least get a smile from you?

              by Step Beyond on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:34:11 PM PDT

              •  Yes! n/t

                by Susan S on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:34:59 AM PDT

      •  Perhaps you can help

        resolve the disaster to come in Florida when a very reactionary property tax bill is passed on the same day as the primary - and only Repugs show up!

        This issue is far more complicated than appears on the surface.

        by fladem on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:12:47 PM PDT

    •  $8 Million is raiseable.

      The FDP should organize a fundraiser.  You'd get support from so many corners of the Internet, from the election integrity folks to the people here -- it is doable.

      by neroden on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 10:11:32 PM PDT

      •  Have you seen the lack of sympathy

        for Florida on the internet?  And as I said before, our state committee members unanimously voted NO to a caucus.  

        by Susan S on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:42:02 AM PDT

      •  Treating each Democrat

        in each state fairly.

        It's doable.

        by SingleVoter on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 03:05:25 AM PDT

      •  Not a chance

        Unless you are offering to write an $8 million check.

        by consdem on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 07:40:26 AM PDT

  •  Also, I think our DNC members

    won't allow what you suggest.  As I said, there are too many egos involved, and it's those of us in the grassroots and the people who suffer.

    by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:24:41 PM PDT

  •  How did they not have any choice?

    by Dubya Big Brother Bush on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:00:53 PM PDT

•  Or at least be consistent

  And don't allow them to fundraise in Florida either!

  You're right Susan...this is about as demoralized I have seen Dems in the trenches in quite a while. The most common response at the moment is, "why bother."

  Those of us who have been working on the plan to increase minority representation to next year's convention have just seen our months of work go down the drain. (At least I'll save $5000 in convention expenses.)

  But even little things, like our local Democratic club trying to lure a presidential candidate/representative to our annual fundraiser are now for naught.

  Once again, we have been outflanked by the Republicans in Florida!

  by kansasr on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:18:55 PM PDT

  •  Florida Crowding in on South Carolina

    ...on the January 29 date accomplished the direct opposite of "increasing minority representation."

    South Carolina was moved up this year specifically because half its primary voters are black.

    While Florida has a healthy black population, African-Americans simply do not have as large a percentage of the vote as in South Carolina. By parachuting in on South Carolina's primary date, Florida disenfranchises black voters.

    All you need to do in Florida to get the candidates back is have your state Democratic Party make a process that will choose delegates on or after February 5th. You don't need your state legislature to approve it.

    The DNC has offered $880,000 to the state party to do just that.

    But if it won't do that, then the candidates should not go to Florida. If they do campaign there, the primary will disenfranchise the first-ever early primary where black voters have a real strong voice. There is high principle involved here. And if the Democratic party doesn't stand firm on this, the loss will be much greater than Florida's self-inflicted wounds.

    I've said it before, Floridians: You have the keys to your own cell. Use them or stay locked up in it. But while you hold those keys and can walk out any time you want, please don't ask everyone else to dig you a tunnel.

    by viralvoice on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:28:23 PM PDT

    •  There are too many players and they're not

      on the same page.  (DNC, DNC members from Florida, FDP, Congressional delegation, state legislators, and the voters)

      by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:30:52 PM PDT

    •  and with all due respect

      $880K won't even do a mailer in the state, let alone pay for a caucus that would represent all the demographics.

      by Susan S on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:32:17 PM PDT

    •  This

      By parachuting in on South Carolina's primary date, Florida disenfranchises black voters.

      ia ridiculous.  On January 29th, at least twice as many blacks will vote in Florida as in South Carolina.  The only ones who are going to be disenfranchised are the Florida voters, whose votes are not going to count.

      Maybe you should get the facts before popping off woth comments like that.

      Florida Kossacks Rock

      Blog Florida Blue

      by gatordem on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 03:24:40 AM PDT

    •  There are 2 problems here

      First, there are 4.7 MILLION registered Democrats in the state of Florida, across 25 congressional districts.

      Anyone who thinks you can run a resonable caucus for $880,000 is out of their mind. The Florida Democratic Party has spent the last 2 years getting themselves out of debt. This would just sink the party again.

      Second, even if you could figure out a way to do an absentee ballot vote as part of a caucus (hell, the state can't even count votes, you expect the state party to be able to count hundreds of thousands of votes and verify the voter's qualifications), you would be looking at an abismyl voter turnout.

      As this point, I'm ready to say, let's just make the January primary non-binding and allow the chair of the Florida Democratic Party to allocate our convention votes based upon a wrestling contest between representatives of each presidential candidate.

      The bottom line is, this needs to be settled quickly and in a manner that Florida Democrats consider fair and respects the wishes of the national party.

      The name calling and back biting that is going on is accomplishing nothing and the longer this goes on, the more endangered the Democratic party in Florida becomes.

      by kansasr on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 07:08:12 AM PDT

    •  Get your facts right

      South Carolina non-white percent of voters: 28.7%
      Florida non-white percent of voters: 28.1%

      by kansasr on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 12:21:05 PM PDT

•  The real disaster

  will be if we don't get a proper campaign going against the property tax amendment. Already the Realtors and other Republicans have a big warchest and are way ahead in organizing to promote a amendment that will destroy the ability of local government to fund schools and other vital services, while preserving the "Save Our Homes" clusterf*** and providing no relief to renters and snowbirds, and minimal relief to small business.

  by Alice in Florida on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:27:40 PM PDT

  •  Yep

    I don't understand why they aren't running some sort of campaign about Crist's pledge that property taxes would drop like a rock. Since people are getting their tax bills now and can see what a lie that was it is a great way to lead into the fact they can't be trusted.

    Hell who in Florida opens their homeowners insurance bill and doesn't feel sick enough to kick a politician where they live?

    by Step Beyond on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:50:15 PM PDT

•  I want the primary date moved to March

  where it was some years ago. I thought it was dopey when it was moved to May and I think it makes less sense to move it to January 29th.

  Someone earlier today replied to me that Florida has another legislative session in 2 weeks. I hope they move the primary to February or March.

  What really gets me PO'd is that if the voter's put in for a constitutional resolution it now takes 60% of the voters before it's enacted. I'm thinking that's what it's going to take.

  by JDWolverton on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:37:10 PM PDT

  •  I don't understand that

    you are choosing to be irrelevant.

    The battle for the nomination will be largely over on Feb 5th.  In fact, I would argue, have argued, that is is about 75% over once NH counts their votes.

    by fladem on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 09:15:19 PM PDT

•  Really matter?

  Do the candidates ever come here anyway before the nomination is decided other than for fundraising? The delegates have never mattered for Florida anyway, so it looks like really there's not going to be much of a change for us. It's just too bad we couldn't have gotten on that February 5th bandwagon.

  by Progressive America on Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 08:55:26 PM PDT

•  A solution

  Mail a small booklet to each registered voter of the party nationwide in early February.

  Each candidate could pay for up to four pages in the booklet.

  The booklet would contain a selection postcard to be mailed back to the national party headquarters.

  This would save big bucks for the big battle and prevent nasty primary battles in every state.

  The DNC has already admitted that something like this can be done in Florida. There is no reason it can't be done nationwide.

  If the DNC wishes to attempt to force Floridians to sit behind two almost all-white states in the primary bus, the DNC will face the wrath of the campaign fare-paying public of Florida.

  by SingleVoter on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 03:02:57 AM PDT

  •  Your solution would easily cost north

    of $10 million.  There are $4 million Democratic voters in Florida.  The cost of printing a booklet and mailing it to each one of them could easily be $2.50 per voter.

    Do the math.

    Florida Kossacks Rock

    Blog Florida Blue

    by gatordem on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 03:29:18 AM PDT

    •  I get mailings

      every campaign season.

      Sending one piece instead of fifty would be cheaper.

      by SingleVoter on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 04:50:33 AM PDT

•  Florida dems are complicit

  In the five years I've been there it has been apparent the organization is disfunctional. (Yes, I know I'm offending a lot of people here...) The choices of candidates have been anemic, the preparation of candidates and platforms pathetic. The last gubernatorial race was ended with one debate question: "And how are you going to pay for that?..." Duh, didn't guess anyone would ask that!

  Florida Dems were complicit in the move to create this impasse. It's an obvious move to depress Dem voter turnout for the referendum.

  No, the candidates can't dilute their efforts just because Florida and Michigan want to get their act together. (In Michigan, BTW, it's a Romney scheme since he has a big name--his father's--there.)

  by MrMichaelMT on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 04:17:08 AM PDT

  •  Which Florida Dems?

    As I have said repeatedly, you are talking about many different groups with varying degrees of control:
    --the FDP (has no control but is forced to come up with solutions)
    --the two committees which actually make some of the decisions
    --the DNC members from Florida
    --the legislators who voted for the change (in a body that is controlled two to one by Republicans)

    I'm not even sure if I have all of them listed.  It's not as simple as it seems.  The bylaws of the Democratic Party (from the top down) are designed to be cumbersome and difficult.  Add in all the egos of the above groups and you've got a mess.  

    If you've been living here that long, I hope you're involved.  If you were, I dare say you would be a lot more sympathetic to what we're dealing with.

    by Susan S on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 05:14:30 AM PDT

    •  I've walked the streets...

      made contributions, and tried to contribute a voice. But I have to say: "Deal with it!" Yes, I know, it's not just Florida. It's like herding cats. But since I live in Palm Beach county--plenty blue--I see the potential for a lot of improvement and can't imagine why there can't be a really charismatic candidate.

      by MrMichaelMT on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 05:16:48 AM PDT

      •  No one has cared much about being a Democrat

        for the past few cycles.  We have no bench over here either and are having to start from scratch to build one.

        by Susan S on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 01:13:34 PM PDT

•  Excellent, well written

  The question I ask is why have the Dems allowed this to become a major Dem story. Republicans I understand have a similar position. So what is the difference?

  by LWelsch on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 04:19:01 AM PDT

  •  Unfortunately, the Republicans are smarter

    Rather than engage in a protracted war, their national party chair decided to halve their delegates and move on.  The Republican Party of Florida is "fighting" for a full delegation, but in the end, they resolved their differences behind closed doors, mainly because sanity reigns in the halls of the RNC administration.  They have no penalties for candidates who campaign in Florida

    Not us.  Our DNC wants to "make an example" out of the fourth largest state in the union and the nation's largest swing state, and the special interests and Washington DC insiders who benefit from the two-state nominating system have told the candidates they will cut them off if they come to Florida.  

    by consdem on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 07:47:16 AM PDT

    •  Thank you for the info

      by LWelsch on Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 07:59:53 AM PDT