Whats Right and Wrong with Rather's suit

I can't believe it--after 3 years Dan Rather wakes up one morning and figures out he got screwed royally by CBS. What took you so long, Dan?
I have been writing about this case, and Bush's military History for 3 years here on Kos and other places, pointing out the many falsification and inconsistencies in Bush's records and the incredible non-ending of the CBS papers isssue.
As someone who has tried to keep this issue alive, I'm ecstatic about this, just because its back in the headlines.
Now I'd like to talk about how Rather still doesn't get it

See below.

Where Rather, and the rest of the world, go wrong is to beleieve that the CBS papers can't be proven or disproven.
This is wrong, way way wrong: the papers can be proven or disproven easily---by the federal authorities, whose papers they purport to be. The federal government maintains extensive agencies and departments solely to authenticate federal documents and prosecute any wrongdoing surrounding them--else we'd all be out photoshopping our own T-bills! Why were these resources never used? (answer: they call them "Killian's private papers." instead of the truth: theyre official documents)

This was the central lost and/or completely ignored fact: forged or not, the CBS memos represent federal documents--and that means its up to the federal government, not Rather or CBS to prove or disprove them--and to prosecute any wrong doing that may have resulted from them. The federal government ran away from this duty, abdicating it to bloggers.

Look at the documents themselves: not at the fonts or spacing, but at the words and signatures on the papers and understand what they mean. http://www.usatoday.com/...  look at the order to take the physical, page 3. This purports to be a TXANG order, official business concerning a TXANG officer, with the full signature of a TXANG commander.

So why did CBS "investigate" these to try and determine their authenticity--when the TXANG never did? Thats right the TXANG, whose letterhead is on this paper, nor any other federal agency, has NEVER tried to determine whether this document is real or not. Signed by their own commander! Thats amazing because if this is forged, it libels their commander in chief

Neither the TXANG, nor Bush himself, nor any other federal or state law enforcement agency has EVER tried to prove or disprove the CBS memos--why not?

Rather should add the federal government to the suit because they denied him due process. It is the federal governments DUITY to maintain the integrity of its documents and its an extremely important duty they take very seriously--else we'd all be photoshopping our own T-bills.

So why did  they run away from their duty to resolve this? If forged, the CBS memos LIBEL BUsh and his former superiors by impugning his service and implicating his superiors in a plot to "sugarcoat" (i.e. falsify) Bush's documents. (see page 7 reference above)

Rather should subpoena Bush as a witness, because it is beyond a doubt that Bush knows absolutely, for dropdead sure whether theyre real or not, there's no way he can't: theyre about HIM, about events in his career that DID take place, like his suspension (see my diary on this: http://www.dailykos.com/... )
Bush knows for dropdead sure if that order is real simply because he knows if he was ordered to take the physical or not. If he wasn't its false, but if he was, its almost certainly real. And BUsh has never answered whether he was ordered to take the physical or not. and he, nor his aides, EVER  denied the CBS memos were real, something nobody but me noticed. They only played dumb about something they HAVE to know.
All Rather has to do is put Bush and his former superiors under oath and dmeand they ID the papers. Or just explain how Bush's suspension was handled--its what the CBS memos are about.
I thought for a while that Rather had taken the biggest payoff in history not to do this most obvious thing.

Rather is right about this: the CBS "Independent investigation" was a Dog and Pony Show designed to emulate an official investigation but with no official powers at all, n subpoena power or compulsion uncer oath. They didn't even interview Burkett (he refused to come) How can a serious investigation of these papers not interview Burkett? Why hasn't ANY agent of the federal government ever interviewed Burkett to see where he REALLY got these from??

There's so much more to say about this, Ive written literally dozens of diaries on this topic.
I discuss the crimes in B ush's records here: http://www.dailykos.com/...
and here: http://www.dailykos.com/...
I show some of the falsifications i Bush's records here: http://www.dailykos.com/...
I give a timeline of Bush's papers showing where the CBS memos fit here:
Intro: http://www.dailykos.com/...
Timeline: http://www.dailykos.com/...
I deconstructed Bush's excuses here: http://www.dailykos.com/...
I investigated the alegation of falsity of the CBS memos, all the non-fonts/spacing/format questions here: http://www.dailykos.com/...
EVERY allegation that I could check against the record was false, misleading, irrelevant or all the above. Ive since kicked out a few more.

Rather's case has opened this story up once again, Thank God! There's a HUGE scam at play here, Bushco's biggest lie. America was had when the federal government ran away from their duty of proving or disproving these papers, abdicating it to bloggers and CBS. These represent YOUR papers, America, not Bush's not Rather's, YOURS!! Make the federal athourities do there duty! Demand a federal investigation of the CBS memos!
America has a right, and desperately needs to know if these papers are real or not.

I'll be back tommorrow with more of this topic. I need to explain the whole story--and its lengthy. You can click on my name and see a lot more on this topic.

•  Tip Jar

  I'll be in and out to check up on this.
  Is the door opening a crack here?
  This is Bush'co's greatest vulnerability-- and its still there.
  There are enough crimes in Bush's records to convict him and his former superiors right now. Some of these crimes have no statute of limitations.
  And whats best abot this is that  this scandal walks right into Bsh's offfice and sits down in his lap--there's no way he can say he doesn't know about this stuff.
  There's still hope

  by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:28:14 AM PDT

•  Nothing New

  Anyone with half a brain knows bush ran away from America when he had an opportunity to show some courage and patriotism. It is just not in him to do something for his country or anyone else, if it requires any thought or work on his part. What I do like about Rather bringing suit, is that it will expose all the right wingnut media for how they cowered at the time of the incident. We will be able to go back and see how the media went crazy spinning against Dan Rather, when just about all of us knew, bush got preferential treatment because he really is a pussy and not very patriotic.

  by DickCheneyBeforeHeDicksYou on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:39:59 AM PDT

  •  I hope Rather doesn't settle first

    hate to say it but I think rather just did this because Imus  got $20million from CBS. if he settles out of court, as is probable, nothing will be resolved
    but if he doesn and he doesn't subpoena Bush, Hodges and Martin to ID the papers, you know he's the biggest dumbass in history, without a clue.

    by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:44:19 AM PDT

•  what Dan needs to do is so simple

  just reproduce the documents using a 1970s era typewriter. Then all the steam goes right out of the forgery argumnts.

  by buzzsaw on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:44:33 AM PDT

  •  Youre right, but its simpler than that!!

    All Rather has to do is demand the federal government do its duty and investigate the memos as what theyre claimed to be: forged federal orders.

    All Rather has to do is stand up and wave the physical and suspension orders in his hand and keep asking: "Were you ordered to take your physical, yes or no? And is this your suspension order that Killian DID read to you on August 1st, 1972?"
    Thats it--just two Yes or No answers. America NEEDS to know those answers and needed to knoww in '00 and '04
    Also: "where is the order Killian DID write and Marian Knox said she DID type and is required by regulations to be there? There's two confirmations for this order in Bush's records but not the order theyre confirming!
    Bush knows what his suspension document looked like but only pretended he didn't!
    for more on this see: http://www.dailykos.com/...

    by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:00:30 AM PDT

    •  first things first

      until he can establish that they 'might' be real documents, he won't get very far.

      If he can't do that much, then he has no leg to stand on.

      by buzzsaw on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:40:41 AM PDT

      •  But as exlrrp was saying, ...

        These are supposedly Federal documents.  It is a crime to forge Federal documents.

        IANAL but, if the Federal government does not step up and do or say something about these documents then the court could decide that the documents can be taken as real.  Rather does not have to do anything to prove the documents are real.

        by linnen on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:52:29 AM PDT

        •  An intersting twist

          Seeing as how one of them purports to be an official order to George Bush, all he has to do is put Bush under oath and say whether he got it or not.
          If he swears under oath  he didn't ( which he won't) then I think there HAS to be a federal criminal investigation because these represent federal military orders......
          Geez, even the signature of the commander of a federal military unit.
          If, back in the day when I was peeling spuds in defense of my country, I'd known the military was so lax aboutr forging orders and signatures of  my commander, I'd have had a 3 day pass every weekend, signed by gen Westmoreland--in crayon!

          by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 09:09:30 AM PDT

          •  Bush 'I don't remember this document'

            '27 year is a long time ago...'

            Again what would be the point of the investigation?

            by buzzsaw on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 11:14:14 AM PDT

        •  why should they investigate?

          We have no forger. Who you going to charge with the crime?

          If the case ever gets to court, then there might be a point to the Feds evaluating them. And then declare them forgeries. And then what?

          by buzzsaw on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 11:12:08 AM PDT

          •  It is not like investigators would have no leads.

            At the start the Feds would talk with Burkett, the one who provided the documents.

            by linnen on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 11:50:04 AM PDT

•  Watch Bush's Sgt. Schultz imitation.

  Rather should subpoena Bush as a witness, because it is beyond a doubt that Bush knows absolutely, for dropdead sure whether theyre real or not, there's no way he can't: theyre about HIM, about events in his career that DID take place, like his suspension
  Bush knows for dropdead sure if that order is real simply because he knows if he was ordered to take the physical or not. If he wasn't its false, but if he was, its almost certainly real. And BUsh has never answered whether he was ordered to take the physical or not. and he, nor his aides, EVER  denied the CBS memos were real, something nobody but me noticed. They only played dumb about something they HAVE to know.

  They have to know, but they probably don't remember. Bush will probably make Alberto Gonzales's testmony look like that of a boy genius.

  by Judge Moonbox on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:56:27 AM PDT

  •  No, Bush' HAS to know

    Thats whats sweet about this--there's no deniability at ALL for Bush, no wiggle room at all.
    this one walks right in and sits on his lap like a painted whore.
    Same for ex Col Bobby Hodges and ex Maj Rufus Martin, the ones who did the falsifications in Buhs's records---they have their names signed to some provably falsified documents.
    Bush's whole discharge is false! See: http://www.dailykos.com/...

    by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:05:29 AM PDT

    •  for events that occurred 27 years ago

      there's all kinds of deniabilty. Memory is an imperfect thing.

      "I can't recall"

      Next Witness

      by buzzsaw on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:45:30 AM PDT

      •  Ironclad evidence

        just because you say you can't remember a crime doesn't mean you can't be proven guilty of it and jailed.
        And so it would be if Bush's military record was ever investigated--there's provable crimes like embezzlement.
        george Bush was paid pilot's pay with flight payfor 52 days after he was required to be  taken off flight status because his superiors falsely kept him listed--and PAID--as a pilot. I amplify this at: http://www.dailykos.com/...

        The regulation mandating that is AFM35-13 2-11 : http://www.glcq.com/...
        george Bsh was clearly supposed to be taken off flight status when he was susupended for failing (refusing) to take his physical. yet his superiors falsely kept him on as a pilot even when they knew he wasn't doig the duty he was getting paid for..
        this is fraud and embezzlement and its why the CBS memos are serious as a heart attack for Bush. If its ever discovered theyre real, his goose is cooked forever, more disgrace than Nixon---he watched all those people in CBS get their carers tanked when he knw all the time whether or not the papers were real.
        he and Rove and Bartlett had their liars attack Kerry's record to take focus off of his record. Nobody ever asked why bush had NO medals at allliseted on his discharge, a big fat "NONE" in capital lettters ijn his qualfications box and a statement in in saying he had only finished 5 years 4 months and 5 days of a 6 year ccommitment. Here's the fact, America--if you only finish 5 years, 4 months and 45 days of a 6 year commitment, you didn't finish the commitment, America, welll duh!!.
        No wonder he didn't even show up to sign it, somethig else he never was questioned about. Its hard to say you showed up on the important days if you didn't even show up to sign your discharge!!!

        Bush got a bye on his questionable service while Kerrys was gone through with a shitrake and a shovell---think tthat was accidental??

        by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:24:27 AM PDT

•  Why haven't they investigated? Simple.

  george w. bush finds that the TXANG forgeries conveniently distract his critics from the real case against him.

  Oh, and you shouldn't use the "George Bush" tag.  There are two prominent men with that name.

  by Sura 109 on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:01:14 AM PDT

  •  But theyre federal TXANG documents!!

    Thats the suspicious part.
    Normaly, the military investigative agencies would have been alll over this tryying to solve thiss, the republicaon Congress too.
    Forged federal orders that LIBEL their president (and other former TXANG officers) if forged!!

    The world still doesn't get it--the TXANG is REQUIRED to investigate its documents that are alleged to be forged--so is every other federal agency. The TXANG has an IG and thhat IG is diiiiiiialed into every federal invetigative resource. We have the wwhole FBI crime lab on top of that!! they knw all abot fonts and spacings and typewriters but not one official person has ever even commented on these papers in an official capacity in anythig approoaching an official investigation!!
    Whats up with that?

    One thing for sure, George Bush doesn't want to know where Burkett got them or even if there are any more---don't you think the feds should at least find that out?

    by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:14:37 AM PDT

    •  Since when does gwb give a damn about the law?

      One thing for sure, [g]eorge [b]ush doesn't want to know where Burkett got them or even if there are any more---don't you think the feds should at least find that out?

      Well, yes, I do.  But george w. bush has never been accused of letting the law get between him and his agenda.

      by Sura 109 on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:26:38 AM PDT

      •  True but there's other people in the government

        Thats one of the things so amazing about this story--no federal agency of our whole federal government ever looked at those memos and said "Gee, they sure look like military orders--maybe we oughtts send them down the the Criminal Investigations Division.

        Look at how much time the rrepubiicon Congress spent on Terry Schiaavo--yet they were entirely content to let this all be decided by bloggers and CBS. The whole federal government ran away from its duty to resolve this, cravenly abdicating it to bloggers and the CBS Dog and Pony Show.

        take a quickie civics quiz:

        Who is rersponsible to verify milittary documents? wwho maintains extensive agencies and labs just for this purpose. Most important, whose word is final?

        A) Dan Rather
        B) bloggers
        C) CBS
        D)The federal government whose extremely important duty it is to maintain the integrity of its documents

        The right answer is--SURPRISE!!--"D!" Don't worry, the rest of the country missed it too.

        What Bushco alleges--that theyre forged--is afederal crime and its an OBVIOUS federal crime.
        How this has beeen handled is by them refferring to them ONLY as "Col Killian's private papers" like he was drunkenly locked up in a room writing memos to himself, theyve even made him out to be a "rogue" commander for suspending Bush.

        No one (but me) ever pointed out that there are two confirmations for Bush's suspension order--but not the document theyre confirming. Al Rather has to do is wake up to THAT--the rest will follow

        by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:38:28 AM PDT

      •  If CBS couldn't be bothered to figure out

        where they came from, I'm not surprised the government isn't bothering either.

        by buzzsaw on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:48:35 AM PDT

•  In my more tinfoil-hatted moments

  I imagine it went like this.

  Karl Rove typed up some obvious forgeries and sent them anonymously to CBS.  CBS knew they were forgeries but saw the perfect opportunity to stir up some noise for george w. bush, all the while pretending to be the Liberal Media® that the wingnuts love to hate.  Dan Rather ran the story, the Freepers and the Late German Fascists pounced on the forgeries, and the rest is history.

  And Dan Rather was hung out to dry.

  by Sura 109 on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:06:09 AM PDT

  •  Too many questions

    You forget Burketts role. You also probably don't know that Burkett, in a sworn deposition said he was in a room with a wastebasket full of TXANG docuuments
    from: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/...

    "...Ten days later, Burkett's friend and fellow guardsman, George Conn, led him to the base museum, which was run by General Scribner. Once there, Burkett saw a trashcan sitting on a table, and when he looked in he saw 20 to 40 pages of documents with George Bush's name on them...."
    So here we have B urkett, according to his sworn staement, standing in a room with a wastebasket full of documents that have Bush's name on them.
    he knows there derogatory to Bush because he just heard a conversation where they talked abot cleaning up Bush's records and he knows what they mean because he's a TXANG officer and knows what the papers signify.

    Later Burkettt is revealed as the sourcee of docjuments derogatory to Bush.

    Now really--where do you think Burkett got them?

    That would mean theyre real, by the way. Burkett either gave CBE forged federal documents--or stolen oness)

    by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:21:09 AM PDT

    •  Perhaps he was

      I can readily believe that george w. bush pulled strings and had his TXANG files purged.  But that's a thin reed on which to base the authenticity of the memos.  You're throwing out a red herring here.

      The fonts alone are enough to raise serious questions about the authenticity of these documents, at least until someone can produce a typewriter that can produce a document of similar appearance and was readily available in 1972.  Furthermore, the burden of proof is on those who wave these documents around to show that they are real, not on the other side to show that they are fake.  Until the question of provenance is resolved, until that magic typewriter turns up, we cannot add the CBS documents to the case against george w. bush.

      Using the CBS documents to make the case against george w. bush is like using Piltdown Man to argue the theory of evolution.  It does not make the case it purports to make, and it opens one up to well-organized enemies of truth and reason.  But the case can still be made, using other, more reliable evidence.

      In more than one of your own diaries, you have mentioned the confirmation of the order that grounded george w. bush.  I have read this document; it has the usual appearance of a typewritten document, and it's up on a DoD web site, and hence its provenance is solid gold.  That's good enough for me:  george w. bush was indeed grounded for not getting his physical.  A fact that even the wingnuts try to spin instead of denying directly.

      Where do we get this idea that impugning the CBS documents is somehow a defense of george w. bush?  Isn't that what the wingnuts would like us to believe?

      by Sura 109 on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 07:59:05 AM PDT

      •  Thin reed? there's a LOT more!!

        "Furthermore, the burden of proof is on those who wave these documents around to show that they are real, not on the other side to show that they are fake."

        Youre wrong on this and this is what Bushco wants you to believe. If these were "private documents" as they describe it, you'd be right. But its the  federal status thhaat blows this whole thing right oopen.
        These aren't crib notes from yale, they purport to be official federal military documents--orders and memos about George W Bush. His name is on every one of them. An official order, signed full signature by his commanding officer--forged or not, this represents an official military order--and its the military's duty to say whether its forged or not. Something, I think you'll agree, they have noticeably evaded doing.
        Since when did it become all right (i.e. not an important federal crime) to forge an official order, put letterhead of an offical, federal military unit on it and forge the signature of the unit's commanding officer on it??
        Thats a serious federal crime!! And the federal authorities are responsible to solve it--to investiigate these papers and prosecute any wrong doing!!
        Since when did it become CBS's duty to authenticate the signature of a federal commander on a federal order?
        And so far theyve done NOTHING about it at all, playing it like its an internal thing for CBS to take care of.
        george Bush knows right now, whether theyre real or not, always has--can we agree on that? These papers libel him if forged yet he's never made one direct comment on them nor shown more enthusiasm for finding out the truth than OJ has in looking for Nicole'ss killers. He and his aides have NEVER denied theyre real, always played dumb, like they didn't controll ALL federal investigative agencies. And like thhey didn't concern george W Bush. Yet his name is on every one of them and if theyre real, its bad, BAD news for Bush and hs former superiors.

        whats up with that?

        They'd sure do it if it was a Democrat's military papers being looked at, agreed?

        The Wastebasket theory is just that--a theory but its based on sworn statement, something all the "Karl Rove did it at midnight in a cloak and hat" theories aren't
        Oh, there's a whole lot more to it than that--for instance, the  sugarcoating of Bush's OETR thats mentioned in the "CYA" document DID occur.
        Killian DID "backdate but not rate" on Bush's OETR, no question about it.
        If real, the CYA document is a note Killian wrote to himself implicating his superiors--they were pressuring him to commit crimees--falsificattion of official documents. This DID occur, whether the papers are real or not. Whats the reasoning behind that?
        If real these document incriminate Bush's superiors in a plot to alter Bush's records--thats why this has never been investigated

        by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:45:20 AM PDT

•  Ex, you should send Dan Rather your posts

  Or better, find out the legal firm and send them there. Dan may be getting lots of spam about now.

  Snail mail might work better than email for the same reason.

  by pucklady on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:39:27 AM PDT

  •  done it, pucklady

    Howdy again.
    I gave up emailing Rather about this long ago. I sent him maybe a dozen, never a response. (I was more lucky with others in this story, though!)

    If his lawyers don't tell him to sue the govt to authenticate the papers, theyre nt worth a nickel.

    Good to "see" you again, pl, hope your summer went well.

    by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:50:44 AM PDT

    •  That's why I suggested snail mail

      Email is so easy to miss. I do it all the time. But a packet of paper is at least touched before it's trashed.

      My summer wasn't so great. Didn't get laid off but had to take an 80% pay cut to keep my job. Yep, I'm floating just above minimum wage, but with benes. Sigh. Such is the respect science gets in this country.

      I'll be looking forward to your post tomorrow.

      by pucklady on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:54:48 AM PDT

      •  Tried it once

        I emaile and snailmailed a bunch of this stuff way back when, to CBS--it was never aonswered. I don't think CBS is at aall interested in resolving this issue, looks like theyre going to rest on the findings of their Dog and Pony show which resolved nothing.
        They never asked the man whose name is on all thhe documents--George W Bush--if theyre real or what he knows about it.
        All CBS had to do was just keep asking: "Were you ordered to take the physical? Yes or NO? And: isthis the order Col Killian wrote and read to you on Aug 1st, 1972? if its not the real one, where's the real one? What did IT say?" Bush knows this, of course and, if things were on the up and up, be out there in front on this right now.
        he's sure nmt very intersted in it, is he? .
        And they never asked the guy who they got it from--Burkett-- where he got the papers from either.
        Put these people under oath and it all comes out--but we know how Bushco runs from being put under oath. Wil RRather do it? Ive been disappointed too often in this story to have much hope. I think he'll get bought offf.

        I've had fun being a "Trail Angel" for my niece who's walking the Pacificv Crest Trail, bringing her supplies. Its been great, got to see a lot of OR and WA

        Be good

        by exlrrp on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 09:03:09 AM PDT

    •  PS: I fixed your tags

      by pucklady on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 08:58:52 AM PDT