Are we "whiney liberals"?(with poll)

WinSmith's Diary/rant on Friday, asks

To quote the great Bluto Blutarski, what the fuck happened to the Daily Kos I used to know?  Where's the guts, you pansies?  Where's the spirit?...(snip)...But the amount of whiny diaries because the apparently superhuman Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi can't transform a broken Washington media establishment that lies and covers for a systemic broken republican party is like complaining that your doctor can't cure your cancer inside of three weeks...(snip)...But to quit the democratic party because they don't move fast enough? To see all the posts about how people aren't giving any more money to democrats? Or going to not vote in 2008?

Is WinSmith right? Are we just a bunch of whiney liberals? Are we now a part of the problem? I wanted a poll to find out, but I needed more content, so...

..I started browsing about for "Dems let me/us down diaries". I found numerous examples of Kossians either taking congressional Dems to task, or complaining that nothing was getting done. (Note: This is in no way a criticism of any of the diaries mentioned. This is what I found in the following hours of reading WinSmith's diary.)

For example, commonscribe looking for LBJ

Aren't you guys a little tired of the whingeing about not having enough
Democrats in the Senate? About waiting for 60 votes before we can do anything meaningful about... well, anything?

And dov12348's calling out Carl Levin

We know the truth, Carl.   The truth is that we were fooled in November 2006.  I'm not even sure if this is a new Congress or that Dennis Hastert had a growth spurt and became just too big to remove.  

We know the truth, Carl.

And we will remember.

Granny doc's explanation that Democrats we elected are just stupid.

We gave them a numerical majority in both the House and the Senate.

Well, so much for THAT!

The New Majority has been out-maneuvered, out-played and out-smarted on every hearing, investigation, and legislative effort they have timidly brought forward.

We have begged, screamed, implored, and threatened - all to no avail.

Well, finally, I think I have figured out the problem.

THEY ARE NOT AS SMART AS THE REPUBLICANS!

Mike Stark is going into action with a plan, not to send any money to Dems, but to target our $$, and make sure people know why.

f I can raise the money, we will build a site that allows people to donate $10 to any non-elected progressive candidate or progressive organization that has an account at ActBlue.  I am confident that we will be able to recruit 10,000 $10 donors (some will contribute more).  repeating:  each donor will promise to give NotOneRedCent to elected Democrats or organizations that give money to elected democrats.  Instead, they will promise to use their money to contribute to progressive organizations and candidates that, as proved by their record, support the furtherance of progressive ideals.

This means Darcy Burner and Donna Edwards get paid.  Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi do not.

I didn't search all that hard, and this is what I found in just a day and a half, not even doing a tag search. As I say, this wasn't a scientific study, just a browse about to see what was out there.

So the question I have, is who are we as a group? Are you/we mostly just frustrated because we worked hard and are disappointed? Are we too impatient? Or are some of us just using these electrons to vent, and we're  really ready, as Churchill said, "...whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

•  Too impatient

  Change never happens as fast as any of us would like. Sadly enough.

  by Brad007 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 05:54:38 PM PDT

•  I've lost faith in Capitol Hill Democrats

  They've gone 0-for-this administration in opposing George W. Bush, his war, and his attacks on the Constitution. The Democratic "leaders" in Congress are hopelessly overmatched in parliamentary and debating skills, and they're still afraid to do anything that would lead to accusations that they're "weak on national security."

  Until they shape up, I won't give a dime to the Democratic Party.

  by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 05:57:13 PM PDT

  •  Well

    They saved Social Security didn't they?

    by Pav on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:18:09 PM PDT

    •  There were plenty of Rethugs

      who lacked the stomach to scrap Social Security.

      by corvo on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:18:52 PM PDT

      •  I'm sure there are decent Repubs here and there

        Their party has just been hijacked to the point where they don't have much of a say.

        by Pav on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:55:49 PM PDT

        •  The Republican Party...

          ...has no room for reasonable, thinking, people, like Lincoln Chafee and Chuck Hagel and John McCain.  

          No room at all.  You have to be an extremist to be a Republican nowadays.

          by LiberalVirginian on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 08:22:15 PM PDT

          •  It's a pendulum

            It'll swing back eventually. But it's a bit dangerous to associate Repubs with scumbaggery an the Democrats with everything that is righteous and good.
            It's exactly that kind of moral certitude that led the Repubs to where they are now.

            Politicians have power and the American way is to regard everyone who has power with some measure of suspicion. It's the only way to keep them on the straight an narrow.

            Governments should be afraid of their people and all that.

            by Pav on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 08:37:54 PM PDT

•  Q: Whiney liberals R us?

  A: No.

  by jhutson on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:06:47 PM PDT

•  A Broad Brush Doesn't Work

  There are whiney liberal; there is a certain segment of the American culture that has been programmed to insist on immediate gratification. But, I think that a lot of diaries here are rants born of frustration.

  Kos has certainly, repeatedly, reminded us that this is a long-term struggle, and has used the Republican experience from the Goldwater loss in 1964 as an illustration of long-term efforts.

  I suspect many posters here feel like I do; I'm Fifty-bloody-four years old; I marched in the '60's and the seventies. I've been agitating against the Bush Follies since 2002. I'm tired, I want it over with. I'm trying to raise my family and make ends meet. But: I drag myself out to another rally. I write another letter to the paper. I send another email to Hillary (unresponsive as she is); I argue with another idjit in the office. After paying the bills I try to squeeze out some spare change for the ACLU, or NORML, or the Progressive Democrats. I really don't want to be doing this when I'm 72.

  Bu if I gotta, I will. And, I suspect, So Say We All.

  by Uthaclena on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:07:24 PM PDT

  •  The price of freedom is eternal vigilance

    I understand one might wish to just retire from the political sphere and go home to your wife and kids.

    But honestly, that can never happen. You have to have your ears open all the time, every time looking out for the next injustice. There are always going to be ambitious men like Bush out there looking to dismantle everything that makes us safe and free so they can make a few extra bucks.

    The reason we got to this place in the first place is because we got too complacent. From the 80's onwards Americans largely just closed themselves down and shut themselves out from politics. Voter turnout was down, newspaper subscriptions were down, people just didn't care enough to pay attention. We can't let that happen again. We enjoyed the 90's with all the money and the conspicuous consumption of that decade. But despite all that material wealth, we as a society had stagnated. We made all these advances from the New Deal to the Great Society and then we just stopped trying to make a "more perfect union." We just decided our stocks were going up and that was all that mattered.

    And this is where it got us. Don't let it happen again.

    by Pav on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:24:47 PM PDT

•  Many of us are losing our sense of reality...

  ...The reality being that we have a minority in the Senate when it comes to the Iraq vote...  Lieberman and Nelson are out.. We gain Hagel... and now Johnson, but for a long time Reid was operating with a 49 seat minority that had majority privileges...

  Not much you can do with that, really... especially when the other side is hard committed to making sure you fail to pass anything of substance.

  People seemed to understand that six months ago...  Now, they seem to believe that Reid has a magical 2/3 majority and has somehow squandered it...

  Which is, of course, ridiculous...

  Thanks,

  Mike

  by LordMike on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:12:07 PM PDT

  •  It took only one Senator

    to keep the Cornyn resolution condemning MoveOn from coming to the floor.

    by corvo on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:17:06 PM PDT

    •  "Democrats" wouldn't even support

      a Levin proposal, countering Cornyn's, that would have condemned defamatory (or "defamatory") comments from both sides.

      by corvo on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:18:11 PM PDT

•  No. That diary contained a little bullshit.

  Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi can't transform

  Not "can't" -- that's the big lie they'd like everybody to believe.

  "Won't" is the proper term.

  In any case, calling for justice is only "whining" to those who are afraid to call for justice -- and would like some company.

  by dov12348 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:21:55 PM PDT

•  No.

  by environmentalist on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:27:04 PM PDT

•  Why can't I see the results of my own poll?

  Can anyone see a poll here? Or the results therof? Heck, the only reason I posted the diary was to try to get a reasonably fair sample. (Are Sat. Nights usually good, by the way?

  by Jacques on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:35:06 PM PDT

  •  Oh yeah, it's there. My vote is the one vote

    for "screw you...haven't yet begun to fight."  Which, by the way, is a lie as I have been a "fighting Dem" for many years now.

    Our... constitutional heritage rebels at the thought of giving government the power to control men's minds. Thurgood Marshall

    by bronte17 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:41:30 PM PDT

    •  Thanks. It magically appeared just now.

      And thanks for fighting on.

      by Jacques on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:42:37 PM PDT

•  A mixture of both

  Here are my views:

  1. Many people here had unrealistic expectations following the 2006 elections. They assumed that electing a Democratic majority was going to magically end the war.

  I told people not to expect significant change. I said that because, no matter what, the votes were not there to end the war immediately. The Republicans were not going to abandon Bush on Iraq. Pelosi and Reid can't magically eliminate the procedural obstacles.

  2. Daily Kos, like other left-wing political boards, has a higher propensity of what I call "martyrdom liberals".

  The Martyrdom Liberal is type of liberal who demands 100% purity and then throws a hissy fit whenever any Democrat falls short of what are unrealistic and impossible litmus tests and expectations. This type of liberal demands perfection; and, whenever a Democrat deviates one bit from those demands, he/she then threatens to vote third party or leave. This type of liberal takes pride in "fighting the establishment" all the time, political marginalization, and engaging in pointless protests that no one cares about, listens to, or hears.

  This board tends to have a lot of posters who are like that. It is impossible to please them. And so, whenever one thing doesn't go their way, they throw a temper tantrum here.

  3. The "netroots" aren't the only part of the Democratic Party. And Daily Kos doesn't necessarily  represent the entire political spectrum of the Democratic Party either.

  A lot of posters here also think that, because this site has very "progressive Democrats" posting, the entire party should think that way. It doesn't work that way. There are Democrats across the country who don't agree on every issue and don't agree on how the war should be ended.

  These posters fail to realize that there are other parts of the base as well. They aren't the only constituency in the Democratic Party. Some people here act like "the netroots" are the only base within the party. There are many other parts of the base. Somehow the "netroots" have an ego problem and think they are more important than they really are.

  4. Establishment DC Democrats still have yet to find a message, stick to it, manage PR, and use the media. They still have yet to sell themselves and their message to the American people.

  The Democratic leadership in DC has shown that it is again inept, unwilling, and/or unable to handle the media effectively. I'm convinced that a great deal of the party's inability to "stand up to Bush" stems from the fact that they simply (still) don't know how to use the media effectively. They don't how to respond to the right-wing noise machine and how to handle the mainstream media networks. They don't stand up and call the media networks out for their hypocrisy.

  While the "netroots", Air America, other liberal talk radio hosts, the Center for American Progress, and other liberal groups that have emerged over the last few years have helped improve the Democrats tailor their message, they are still at a disadvantage. The Democrats have proven themselves unable to deal with the media.

  A major problem is that, in many cases, the Democrats are trying to change the dynamics at hand. However, the media either doesn't cover them or takes what they say out of context. Out of a desire to "show fairness" the mainstream media networks go out of their way to be more aggressive to Democrats.

  5. People here are focusing 100% of their efforts at the national level. They are ignoring the local level.

  The right didn't get to where they are today overnight. I've suggested thousands of times to people unhappy with Congressional and Senatorial Democrats to start working at the local level. I've told people that, if they aren't happy, they should get involved in neighborhood associations, civic associations, planning boards, and other similar groups. They should also run for offices like School Board, County Board of Education, Sheriff, Magistrate, County Clerk, Register of Wills, County Council, City Council, Mayors offices, Alderman, Local Board of Elections, dog catcher, and various other minor positions. Those offices are often the minor leagues for higher offices. The right took over the GOP by running their hardcore supporters for those offices, who, in time, moved up to higher elected positions like Congress.

  Overall I think that many people here had unrealistic expectations. I do think that there has been a lot of whining with little action. Again, if people want better Democrats, they need to start at the local level. They need to show that "progressive Democrats" can govern effectively. And the focus has to be on the long-term.

  by oceanstar17 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 06:51:05 PM PDT

  •  I wish I could give this ...

    A bagful of reccs.

    Establishment DC Democrats still have yet to find a message, stick to it, manage PR, and use the media. They still have yet to sell themselves and their message to the American people.

    Yes, yes, yes. What I see lacking isn't courage but savvy. They are admittedly in a tough spot - they thought they could hold the Republicans' feet to the fire with repeated Iraq votes, only to find that the media spins it (understandably) as "Dems lose repeated votes."

    What needed, frankly, is more cynicism in dealing with the media. They are basically local TV Action News hacks writ big, and ought to be treated that way, instead of being treated like Ed Murrow.

    by al Fubar on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:40:35 PM PDT

    •  Yes their inability to handle the media

      and make their own news has hampered them significantly.

      by oceanstar17 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 11:42:54 PM PDT

  •  Good diary

    :)  

    Seriously, a bagful of 4's, if I could

    by LiberalVirginian on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:50:39 PM PDT

    •  Thanks

      I appreciate it.

      by oceanstar17 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 11:43:06 PM PDT

  •  oceanstar, you have a diary here.

    by Jacques on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 07:50:58 PM PDT

    •  Thanks

      I appreciate it.

      by oceanstar17 on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 11:43:17 PM PDT

•  What! WTF! ?%$#^ I got 14 new Republicans?

  In my own *&*^%^& poll*! Who are you? Come out, you quitters!! What the^&&^ do you think you're doing? Aaaaarrrrrggghhh! Come out and defend your lily-livered selves!

  by Jacques on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 09:05:59 PM PDT

  •  Greetings, lizardoids.

    You may end up with more Publicans in that poll, now that the Late German Fascists have linked your diary (wingnut site warning).

    (Oh, and Chuckles, how dare you compare yourself to Winston Churchill!)

    by Sura 109 on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:48:12 PM PDT

    •  Interesting Poll results

      especially since I don't think those Dastardly Deed Doers at Littlegreenfootballs are able to alter or subtract votes from the results.I am thinking that this poll strongly resembles  straw poll taken in a dark corner of discontent.
      ....Tis a puzzlement.
      "War will not end until all of the violent people are killed."

      by Czarmangis on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 02:25:27 PM PDT