Daily Kos

FL Dems Blow Off The Party

Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:03:50 AM PDT

At 2:45 today the Florida Democratic Party will officially announce that they have no intention of following party rules governing delegate selection to the 2008 national convention. (You can read the announcement here and also see the website they've set up to try and legitimatize their decision, MakeItCountFlorida.com.)

Their logic? We can't disenfranchise 4 million Florida Democratic voters.

Somehow their logic escapes me, so follow me below the fold.

The logic of the FDP is that Florida should have a say in who our nominee is for president. So they have chosen a route that insures we will have absolute NO SAY in the nomination process, because we will have no delegates at the national convention. Now we haven't really had a convention fight in decades, so it probably doesn't mean much, but imagine if we approach Denver and no candidate has a majority of the delegates sown up, and Florida is sitting there ready to cast ZERO votes. Yeah, we'll look like rocket scientists then.

But won't having Florida vote a week before the SUPER primaries on Feb 5 give us a big voice in determining who the ultimate nominee is? Perhaps - but I think the buzz about our primary will be that it is nothing but a beauty contest since there will be absolutely no campaigning by the candidates. No personal appearances (except for fundraising - which really sticks in our craw down here), no media. Nothing. How else would you describe the results of this election.

The FDP is hiding behind the constitutional amendment that will also be on the ballot on Jan 29, which could significantly alter the way property taxes are assessed in this state. Their logic is that this vote is so important that they must insure that there is full participation in the primary.

Well you know what? They could still have pushed the primary election AND lifted the candidate sanctions on Florida AND insured Florida's participation in the national convention by merely approving another method for allocating our convention delegates, other than the results of the Jan 29 primary.

The delegate selection plan already calls for caucuses in each congressional district later in 2008 to select the actual delegates...this would be the ideal opportunity to also allocate the delegates and magically be in compliance with the DNC's rules. But no, the FDP is afraid that Florida voters will think that the delegate selection process is being manipulated by party insiders and they will feel disenfranchised. I can assure you that 95% of Florida Democratic voters have absolute no concept on how delegates are allocated or selected, nor really have much of a vested interest in the process.

Sure there's a possibility that a candidate could win 50% of the primary vote and only get 25% of the actual delegates, but I have to have faith in  the people who attend these caucuses that they would attempt to reflect the will of the voters in their district. And the bottom line is that with the FDP plan, each candidate will end up with exactly ZERO delegates - tell me how this reflects the will of the voters.

And who really suffers? The Florida voter and the Democrats in the trenches. For example, our local Democratic club is holding our annual fund raiser on October 6, one week after the sanctions go into effect. As a result, we have no chance of securing any of the presidential candidates and our ticket sales have suffered accordingly. Since these funds are used for our voter outreach program for 2008, we are going to have to drastically scale back our efforts to once again open a get out the vote center and build on the progress we made in 2006 in voting Republicans out of office in Broward County.

The minority delegate selection plan we've worked months on is now up in smoke. There will be absolute no minority delegates from Florida in Denver. Tell me how that is a win for the party?

The state party convention in Orlando at the end of October has suddenly become a totally meaningless exercise. I'm not even sure why we're even going to bother convening, other than it's required by our by-laws.

The winners here? The Florida Republican Party is laughing all the way to the November voting booth! Their sanctions are less onerous - Florida will only lose half of it's delegates and there are no sanctions on candidates campaigning in the state. Having the Democratic candidates and the eventual Democratic nominee boycott Florida for several months will do nothing to reverse the Republican trend in the last two presidential elections.

There is plenty of blame to go around. The primary system as it currently exists sucks. Unfortunately the national parties are at the mercy of many of the states when it comes to holding actual primary elections. That is certainly the case in Florida where the party has to either use the state run primary or absorb huge costs to run their own caucuses or write in elections.

But I am totally disappointed with the Florida Democratic Party and their unwillingness to try and come up with a solution that would mitigate the serious negative consequences these actions will have upon the party in the state. Unfortunately the state party is little more than a mouthpiece for Senator Bill Nelson, who did nothing to try and bridge the gap between the FDP and the DNC and, in fact, flamed the fires of discontent between Florida and the rest of the party with his recent rhetoric. I'm afraid we will now reap the results of these blockhead decisions.

As for me, I think I'm going to take a vacation for a while. The only thing keeping me registered as a Democrat in Florida at the moment is so that I can vote in next year's August primary for a good friend who is running for the Florida legislature. I feel betrayed by my state party who in their attempts to "make my vote count" have actually disenfranchised me from the presidential selection process. But it has helped me understand better why the Florida Democratic Party is such an ineffective political entity these days and why we are probably going to remain a very minority party through this decade and the next.

Tags: Florida, Democrats, Presidential Primary (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 61 comments

  •  Your comments, thoughts and ideas.... (7+ / 0-)

    Are always appreciated

    Nill illigitimi carborundum

    by kansasr on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 10:59:43 AM PDT

    •  here's a fun possibility (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright, LWelsch, jimmyboyo

      Say HRC wins the Florida (non)primary, but after the rest of the primaries are finished Edwards or Obama has a slim lead. Slim enough so that HRC would win if Florida's delegates were seated. Best case scenario: no trouble getting lots of TV coverage of the National Convention. Worst case scenario: the convention would make the Brooks Brothers riot look like romper room.

    •  At a recent party meeting, (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright

      the suggestion was made that not all the candidates are that concerned about fixing the problem right now. Some would like it fixed, others not so much. As it was put: "You can't take the politics out of politics."

      "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

      by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:59:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well the problem for the candidates is this: (0+ / 0-)

        If they campaign in Florida, it pisses off little Iowa and New Hampshire, not to mention Nevada and South Carolina.  This will likely be discussed further, but not until AFTER the nomination has taken place.  

        •  The consolation expressed at the meeting (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Clem Yeobright

          was that this will never happen again. The DNC and state parties will work out a more coherent, consensus primary schedule. Just not this time.

          "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

          by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:03:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It would be about time. (0+ / 0-)

            Howard Dean and Donna Brazille should have blown up the two/four state nominating system.  

            Florida and Michigan deserve a lot of credit for finally forcing a chance to a failed system.

  •  I hope the DNC will reconsider (3+ / 0-)

    This is a lose lose situation. No one comes out ahead. The solution in my opinion is for the DNC to adopt the same position as the RNC.

    Florida is an important and potentially hotly contested state. I believe that the Democrats best interests are served by making certain that they show they value the opinion of Floridians. The DNC cannot force the state to change its chosen election day.

    Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.

    by LWelsch on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:09:03 AM PDT

    •  The DNC should definitely not reconsider (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      IhateBush, psnyder, John DE, jimmyboyo

      The DNC cannot force the state to change its chosen election day.

      While it is true that the DNC cannot control what a state legislature does, the DNC has the absolute right to decide whether or not to seat a state's delegates.  It is a right that was upheld by two Supreme Court decisions.

      Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

      by mini mum on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:19:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Right to seat delegates (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Clem Yeobright, randomperson26

        Of course the DNC has the right not to seat delegates from Florida. But, that is not in the DNCs best interest. The issue of first to vote is going to be fought over again. Reducing the chances of democrats winning FL elections is not worth it.

        Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.

        by LWelsch on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:25:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Is it a right or a privilege? (0+ / 0-)

          The DNC has only the priviliges that the Democrats give them. Leadership is best when it "serves" not when it "dictates."  When someone can show me that the DNC has polled the various states' grassroots Democrats and determined that the majority of registered Democrats beleive Iowa and NH deserve the special privileges they have, then I will support the DNC decision not to seat a delegation that puts itself above the grasroots. But that is not what the DNC has done. The DNC is floundering and tries to hide it by dictating that Iowa and NH should be allowed to keep their special status among all the other states.

          "The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill

          by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:32:20 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is a right, not a privilege (0+ / 0-)

            Such purple prose. And all of it totally unconvincing.

            Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

            by mini mum on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:22:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Leadership best when serves, not when it dictates (0+ / 0-)

            When went through all this over a month ago when this all started, and I don't want to have to dig up all the links all over again. The DNC is the controlling body when it comes to elections, and it's body is made up of voting members from all fifty states. They ALL voted against Florida, except the Florida delegate. This not about "sticking it to, Iowa, N.H., of that wacko crazy Howard Dean", they're thumbing their nose at the whole rest of the country's Democrats by refusing to abide by the rules.

        •  Absolutely in the DNC's best interest (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          John DE

          The DNC (like the RNC) enforces the rules its members agreed upon:  

          In Democratic Party of United States of America et al. v. Wisconsin ex rel. Bronson C. La Follette et al., 450 U.S. 107 (1981), the Democratic National Committee (DNC)challenged the Wisconsin state law that mandated the Wisconsin delegation must be bound by the results of the April open primary. The DNC was concerned that persons voting the Democratic ballot were not required to publicly declare their party affiliation, as required by national party rules. As a result, members of other political parties (or voters with no political affiliation) could, and did, "cross over" to affect the Democratic outcome. The party claimed that its right to freedom of association, as protected by the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution, would be violated if it had to accept delegates forced on it by "outsid­ers". The Court ruled that it was permissible for the Democratic Party of the United States to refuse to seat delegates from the State of Wisconsin because they were elected in an open pri­mary, a procedure that violated national party rules. The Court stated:

          . . . a State, or a court, may not constitutionally substitute its own judgment for that of the Party. A political party’s choice among the various ways of determining the makeup of a State’s delegation to the party’s national convention is protected by the Constitu­tion. (123­124)

          The State has a substantial interest in the manner in which its elections are conducted, and the National Party has a substantial interest in the manner in which the delegates to its National Convention are selected. But these interests are not incompatible and to the limited extent they clash in this case, both interests can be preserved. The National Party rules do not forbid Wisconsin to conduct an open primary. But if Wisconsin does open its primary, it cannot require that Wisconsin delegates to the National Party Con­vention vote there in accordance with the primary results, if to do so would violate Party rules. (126)

          Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

          by mini mum on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:14:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It would require an alternate slate to apply (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Susan S

        for the certification. Who would that be?

        The DNC is 100% right, and the FDP 100% right.

        What great theater!

        You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

        by Clem Yeobright on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:26:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  FDP is not 100% right (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          William Domingo, Clem Yeobright

          They effed up royally starting with not applying for one of the two preprimary slots.  They had a legitimate shot to be the first in the south and sat by while about dozen other states plus DC made their pitches.

          FDP voted along with the rest of the DNC membership to accept the delegate selection guidelines.

          The Democrats in the state leg voted along with the GOP to move the primary date.  Obviously, they didn't care either.

          Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

          by mini mum on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:05:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Amen to that mini mum (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        William Domingo

        Florida dem party agreed before hand to the DNC date set up, but now want to change the rules.

        Sorry, no go!

        •  Fl Dem party (0+ / 0-)

          is going along with what the state decided to do. Republicans are very clever about setting dates for elections that are in their best interest. The state, dominated by republics (and yes I know the dems also voted for it) decided to set the date on Jan. 29. A bunch of issues are being voted on, not just the presidential party nominees. If dems don't show up, then they lose on the other issues. If dems change the nominating election then they will get low turn out. Hence the lose lose nature of what is happening.

          Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.

          by LWelsch on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:49:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The DEM legilsatures voted en masse for this (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            John DE

            The Fl Dem legislatures voted en mass for this.   This was not all repub

          •  Republicans are very clever? (0+ / 0-)

            Um, the Democrats knew exactly what they were doing and didn't seem to have a problem sticking it to the DNC.  Nobody held a gun to the Democrats and forced them to go along with the change.  They were more than willing to participate.

            Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

            by mini mum on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:07:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not sure about that. Wasn't it the Republican (0+ / 0-)

              governor and Republican dominated legislature that created the law. Now if the Democrats say your Democratic vote is worth nothing, but the Republicans can say your vote is worth 1/2, then the Repulicans get credited as treating Florida more fairly in the minds of lots of Floridians.

              Taking away half the delegates seems to be the best way of not alienating Florida voters before the General election.

              •  Apparently, many here oppose paper ballots (0+ / 0-)

                Because for the Fla Dems to vote against the primary date, they would have had to vote against mandating paper ballots at every precinct.  

                Of course they voted for the bill.  Do those of you who support punishing Florida really think they should have cast a no vote to requiring paper ballots?

    •  The DNC should left FL have delegates. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      LWelsch, immigradvocate

      Believe me, if you live in Florida its on the news and in the papers EVERY day about how the Democrats are disenfranchising the voters.  Several of my loyal Democrat friends are saying the are boycotting the Presidential race because of this and voting 3rd party.  Believe me, if the DNC follows through with this, Florida will vote Republican again in 2008. I guarantee it.

      •  It is going to anyway (0+ / 0-)

        Diebold controls the votes in FL, not the people.

        John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

        by IhateBush on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:33:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We are getting a paper trail (0+ / 0-)

          I think its a step in the right direction.  I think Charlie Crist is actually doing a half way decent job as governor.

          •  Paper trial can be faked (0+ / 0-)

            or a whole bunch of ghost votes can be added.  Jebby (and his machine) will make sure of it.  The paper trail may prevent accidental mistakes, but it doesn't end outright cheating and fraud.  

            Iraq has fairer elections than Florida.

            John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

            by IhateBush on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:43:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  A paper trail, yes, (0+ / 0-)

            but the optical readers are buggy and come out of the same sweatshop in the Philippines and are provided by the same company that our ivotronic systems came from. Check out the Dan Rather report on HDNET. Also, the procedures in place, at least in Broward, do not include any audit of the election results until after the election has already been certified, i.e., it's a done deal. Further, the post-certification audits are strictly procedural and will not even verify the tallies of the optical readers by comparing them with a manual tally of the paper ballots. I'm not impressed.

            "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

            by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:47:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Fine, all Florida voters may as well stay home (0+ / 0-)

              That seems to be what you are calling for at least.

              •  Not at all. We have to vote. (0+ / 0-)

                The state party is right about the importance of the property tax amendment that the Republicans put on the ballot when they punted on their own promises to fix the property tax problem. I'm only saying that we can't rest just because we have a paper trail. Vigilance is still required. We're not at the end of the road in terms of repairing the mechanics of free and fair elections.

                "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

                by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:57:45 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  The DNC had that option. (0+ / 0-)

      They could have penalized the Florida Democratic Party by denying them anywhere from 50-100% of their delegates. They chose the most onerous penalty in order to deter other states from moving their primaries up as well. Then about a week later, Michigan moved theirs up anyway.

      You're right, the DNC cannot force the state to change its election day, especially since we have a majority Republican House and Senate, and our Republican governor has already said that he would veto any bill to move the date back.

      Kansasr is right: the Florida party could have chosen to select the delegates by other means. There just could be no linkage whatsoever between the January primary and the selection of delegates. The intransigence of the state party is inexplicable and one more bit of evidence that Democrats are still suckers for the Republican strategem of creating a row amongst Democrats that will have us fighting amongst ourselves instead of with Republicans. The Republicans get us to do their work for them, and we fall for it every time. Petraeus ad row anyone?

      "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

      by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:38:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I support the DNC on this (5+ / 0-)

    The Florida Democrats are cheaters, plain and simple, and are trying to change the rules in the middle of the game.

    I would eliminate their delegates for 2008, but 2012 as well.

    Florida is not a swing state, it is a state safer for the Rethugs than even Utah.  Diebold will guarantee a win under any circumstances.

    John McCain's Something for Everyone Plan: Military draft for youth, SS benefit cuts for elderly, Middle Class destruction, stock market plunge for wealthy.

    by IhateBush on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:09:25 AM PDT

    •  This hurts candidates farther down the ticket too (0+ / 0-)

    •  Come on, who are they "cheating" (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Clem Yeobright, randomperson26

      Words must mean something, and the word "cheating" just doesn't apply. They are openly choosing a date to have their primary. Nothing is secret or hidden. Nothing is being misrepresented. So where is the so-called "cheating"? Not accepting the DNC's dictated rules is not "cheating" is is "rebelling."

      "The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill

      by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:36:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the Democrats didn't pick the date for the (0+ / 0-)

        election. The could have chosen too make the date a meaningless primary, I suppose. And then had a follow up caucus. I guess that's what I would have preferred.
        But how would that play with the Florida voters? That might play into the Republican's hands.

    •  Fl Dems didn't change the rules (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Susan S, psnyder, consdem, randomperson26

      The government of FL changed the rules as to when an election would be held. To pick a different date than the government's date would be dumb.

      Practice tolerance, kindness and charity.

      by LWelsch on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:37:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fl dems in state legislature sure DID!!!! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        IhateBush

        The dem reps in the florida legislature surely did change the rules

        •  Voters in the state want this (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          consdem

          So I think its a good thing our politicians finally listened to the people.  The DNC is very anti-democracy with this move.

        •  Unfortunately you're right. (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          tmo, jimmyboyo

          I know that my Democratic State senator, Jeremy Ring, vigorously supported moving the date forward, and he was not the only Democrat to do so.

          "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

          by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:50:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Dem reps are different from the FDP (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          boofdah

          I've said this so many times that I'm sick of it, but:  

          We were screwed by our Dems in the legislature when they voted along with the Republicans to change the date.  Karen Thurman and Howard Dean have been pinned into a corner by the elected officials and the DNC members who insist they follow DNC primary rules that were set last year.  The problem is that we WILL disenfranchise voters if we select delegates with a limited caucus, our only other option.  

          Don't be angry at the FDP.  They have been working non-stop on this for months (while our own Democrats have repeatedly killed us by running their self-centered mouths to the press).  

          Let's have the primary, forget the delegates, and move on.  There's too much work to be done to spend another minute on this mess.

          Carrie French, age 19, died in Iraq on June 5, 2005. Why?

          by Susan S on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 03:25:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why should my vote count less? (0+ / 0-)

            Than someone in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina or Nevada?  

            Is it because of their track record in picking winners like Dukakis, Tsongas, Buchannan, Kerry (Iowa and New Hampshire)?  

            Is it because of their record in seceding quickly from the union (South Carolina)?

            Is it because of the political insight that comes from lots of gambling and legalized prostitution? (Nevada)

            I am from Florida and am quite happy that my legislators voted to give me a louder voice, even if that means that we have no delegates to a meaningless national convention.

            It is time to blow up the failed two/four state nominating system.

            •  The time to fight that battle was last year. (0+ / 0-)

              Stop whining about it and start concentrating on the 2012 primary cycle.  

              Carrie French, age 19, died in Iraq on June 5, 2005. Why?

              by Susan S on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 05:41:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am not the one whining here... (0+ / 0-)

                I am very happy about the outcome of the FDP's decision.  

                What I don't understand is all these blindly loyal Dean fans who are willing to stand with him in this decision, even though there plenty of evidence to show that the current two/four state nominating system is broken.  

                As Dean taught us himself, sometimes you have to force change in a system that is broken and defended by special interest and DC Insiders.  In the case of the primaries, Florida and Michigan are forcing long-needed reform.

                Quite honestly, I really don't care if my state goes first or last.  What I care about is that we change this system.  Heck, go with a random selection of primary dates, regional primaries, anything; just not this.  

                •  I couldn't agree more, but (0+ / 0-)

                  why blame Dean?  This was a DNC decision that was made last year.  We shouldn't allow anybody to break the rules without consequence.  What we need to do now is focus on rule changes for 2012.  (But only while working to win in 2008!)

                  Carrie French, age 19, died in Iraq on June 5, 2005. Why?

                  by Susan S on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 06:13:57 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Because Dean had a choice (0+ / 0-)

                    He could have led the charge to blow up a broken system, or he could defend it.  He chose the latter.  My state chose the former.

                    Furthermore, he is now leading the charge to punish Florida Democrats in a far worse manner than the RNC is punishing Florida Republicans EVEN THOUGH Florida Republicans control the legislature and mansion.

                    To your final point, I agree that we should all work to change the calendar in 2012.  I do hope that the Chair of the DNC will appoint a committee that is truly representative of Democrats nationally when we get to that point, not one that is predesposed to protect a failed system on behalf of their special interest and Washington DC insider buddies.

  •  I'd do the same thing (3+ / 0-)

    I think the FL 'beauty contest' will be important, because it proceeds from zero campaigning by the candidates.

    I think the FDP has taken the best route to making FL part of the candidate selection process. They were dared, and they double-dared right back!

    Interesting. Very interesting!

    You kids behave or I'm turning this universe around RIGHT NOW! - god

    by Clem Yeobright on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:09:51 AM PDT

  •  I know someone else (4+ / 0-)

    who also blew off his own political party

  •  I support Florida Dems on this. (5+ / 0-)

    What logic is needed besides "We want an early primary"?

    Who says Iowa and NH should be first?

    The Democratic Party leadership need to get a smack in the face and this is a good way to do it. If the leadership can't figure out a way to do regional primaries on a rotating basis so the different regions take turns going first, then the states need to assert themselves to force the Party's hand.

    This is real democracy in action. The party leadership just doesn't believe in real democracy as they want to dictate to the states' grassroots.

    "The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:23:29 AM PDT

    •  God and James Madison (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      tmo, consdem, randomperson26

      made Iowa and New Hampshire first. It's in the bible and in the Constitution, isn't it? They have a long tradition dating back to the Magna Carta and a sacred trust to the flying spaghetti monster too.

      A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

      by dougymi on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:54:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Florida has a say (2+ / 0-)

    even if we don't get the delegates.  Our primary will generate a ton of news coverage and news coverage is actually what its all about.  Look at John Kerry in 2004...without that coverage of his win in Iowa, I seriously doubt he would have been our nominee.

    •  Good point, PR is everything (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      randomperson26

      in politics.

      "The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill

      by Gregory Wonderwheel on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:37:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It'll generate coverage (0+ / 0-)

      for what a blown election it was. The candidates have already agreed not to campaign here for the primary. This only gives Republicans a head start. It's a blown opportunity, and I expect the press coverage to be more about the screwed up situation than about the issues or the candidates.

      "A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government....President Bush has repeatedly violated the law for six years." Al Gore

      by psnyder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 11:52:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The DNC is right or else... (0+ / 0-)

    If the national party cannot control its own organizational structure, it does not by definition have "freedom of association".  The FDP can set its own primary date violating the national rules, but by doing so it is acknowledging that it is not playing by those rules.

    Perhaps it's time that the states get out of the early primary/caucus game altogether.  In Colorado, we have our caucuses now on Feb. 5th - within DNC regulations and done on our own party dime.  If we need one, we have a primary in early August (candidates can petition on to the ballot, or multiple candidates can make the ballot through the caucuses...).  Perhaps a national primary day and a party-organized caucus system is the way to go nationwide...

    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

    by Phoenix Rising on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:45:41 PM PDT

  •  Write off Florida -- ban Florida (0+ / 0-)

    Ban Florida from having ANY voice in the choosing of the democratic nominee -- PERIOD.

     Florida has shown that it is not ready for grown up politics.

     Let them do whatever they what to on a state wide basis -- but stay the fuck out of National politics.

     There are lots of really nice people in Florida -- but at this point in time after screwing up at least TWO National elections (2000& 2004) -- need to be BANNED for at least two National election cycles.

     Florida stole my vote in 2000 -- and I will never ever forgive Florida. Florida is partially responsible for the bush/cheney rape of America and the world.

     Ban Florida!

     Too harsh -- I could care less -- Florida nullified my vote and the MAJORITY vote in 2000.

    BROKAW: You know what I think we're going to have to go back and do? Wait for the voters to make their judgment.

    by Carib and Ting on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 12:59:11 PM PDT

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