CSI: Due Process is for Losers

I just watched my last episode of CSI.  I sort of went off it about a year ago when I realised each episode was stoking fear.  Fear that if you have sex you'll be killed.  Fear that if you live in the suburbs you'll be killed.  Fear that if you enjoy swimming you'll be killed.  Fear.

Tonight I was afraid.  At the end when the suspect is confronted with having killed a former gang member he is told, "Under the Patriot Act this is your last hour of freedom.  What do you want to do?"  Cut to a scene of a little girl being reassured that she won't have to testify in court, that there is no need for a trial because the suspect will be sent away "for life for sedition".

Ah!  Happy ending!  They got the bad guys, right?  Wrong.  The bad guys got us.

If Americans really believe the bad guys are Al Qaeda and not the assholes in Congress and the White House who are erasing the Constitution then we all should be afraid.  

One thing I know tonight is that I'm not watching CSI anymore and I'm not travelling to America unless it is absolutely essential.  Your country scares the shit out of me.

Strategia della Tensione

•  Which CSI?

  CSI: Miami is the one where the Fourth and Fifth Amendments usually count for jack.

  by DH from MD on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:50:43 PM PDT

  •  CSI: Miami indeed.

    Lovely scenery.  Beautiful beaches.  Horrible, torturing, lawless, extrajudicial, shoot-first-ask-questions-later authoritarianism at its finest.

    by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:52:06 PM PDT

    •  sadly

      The Hollywood conservative bias of these shows encourages real life rogue vigilantes to act out accordingly.

      by davefromqueens on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:39:44 PM PDT

    •  Ah yes, the multitasking show.

      the one where the head of the crime lab is also the guy they send to the roadblock with a 50 caliber rifle to blow up a truck full o' terrorists.
      er, what?
      All in all, a worthy successor to the Miami police show where one of the cops was turned into a zombie by voodoo sorcerors/drug dealers.

      by HiBob on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:12:09 PM PDT

  •  The original (Vegas) CSI isn't much better

    I really like the characters and the stories are usually fun (in a dark kind of way), but the overall anti-civil liberties slant is pretty awful.  The investigators are heroes for tricking suspects into providing evidence, and when a suspect "lawyers up" you'd think they were subverting the justice system.

    by Bill W on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:56:33 PM PDT

•  Happily, this American

  has absolutely no idea what CSI is. BTW, are you really sure you won't die if you go swimming?

  by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:53:25 PM PDT

  •  The worst I get here is ringworm and lice.

    They are endemic. Oh, also planters warts.  The British aren't much on public hygiene, but they are absolute anarchists for opposing authoritarianism when compared to Americans these days.

    by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 01:55:32 PM PDT

    •  Ick. Ick. Ick. /nt

      by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:08:56 PM PDT

•  Now LY, calm down

  Big Brother is on your side - you're one of the good guys, right?

  by semiot on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:01:38 PM PDT

  •  I'll only know when I'm wearing the uniform

    of either a jailor or a prisoner, won't I?

    by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:03:07 PM PDT

    •  speaking of big brother,

      aren't you guys super into that whole cctv thing??

      by inertiac on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:04:13 PM PDT

      •  Being on camera 400 times a day

        doesn't worry me as much as long as I have the European Court of Human Rights as a check on the dictatorial aspirations of any particular prime minister who tries to emulate Bush.

        It's worth remembering that the camera footage helped to debunk the lies around the shooting of the innocent Brazilian following the 7/7 bombings and also raised questions about the veracity of other cooked intelligence in other cases.  Cameras tell the truth.  That cuts both ways.

        by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:08:22 PM PDT

        •  I Used To Think The Same Thing Here

          Once upon a time we had Earl Warren as Chief Justice of SCOTUS. Courts change. The European Court of Human Rights is elected by the European Parliament. One day the parliament will change and you'll get court full of Antonin Scalias.

          by Skjellifetti on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:25:34 PM PDT

          •  yup

            no guarantees.

            by Euroliberal on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:36:07 PM PDT

    •  I bet you

      look great in stripes or is it orange now? :-)

      by Euroliberal on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:34:45 PM PDT

      •  I thought they used

        arrow heads in the UK.

        by linnen on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:58:27 PM PDT

•  what offends me about csi:miami

  has little to do with its portrayal of the american justice system.

  the writing and acting are atrocities.

  by inertiac on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:05:12 PM PDT

•  Law and Order

  L&O is no better.  I stopped watching when it became clear that even when the government could not prove the suspect did what they thought, they assumed they were entitled to a conviction on something--anything--else.

  L&O and CSI both push the idea that anyone who wants a lawyer has something bad--really bad--to hide and it's as meaningful as a confession.  

  by hilltopper on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:07:18 PM PDT

  •  Law and Order has better theme music, though.

    Not to mention that cool metallic "kschwang" sound that signifies a scene change.

    by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:15:45 PM PDT

    •  CSI has The Who...

      by kredwyn on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:56:29 PM PDT

      •  who?

        by Euroliberal on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:37:01 PM PDT

      •  Yeah, but

        L&O's theme music is original, not purchased from some copyright holding corporation.  And I just can't get it out of my head, that Dah-dum-dada da-dum dum . . . .

        by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:13:06 PM PDT

  •  That Is The One Thing

    I've learned from watching cop shows on TV. Even when you know that you are innocent, never let the police question you except through your lawyer.

    by Skjellifetti on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:16:03 PM PDT

    •  Lawyers

      Anyone who wants a lawyer must be guilty of something.

      Your point is actually right. The TV shows show how easy it is for an innocent person to be tricked into admitting to something they never did.  

      Add the TV show "The Closer" to the list, although I will admit I enjoy it.  

      by hilltopper on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:20:48 PM PDT

      •  coincidence

        saw thw first episode last night. Not very impressed but had one smart and funny line, which I guess is the most we could ask from any show these days.

        by Euroliberal on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:38:59 PM PDT

    •  True this.

      Repeat after me:  You. Do. Not. Have. To. Talk. To. The. Police.

      And I kinda like cops.  Kinda.

      by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:50:34 PM PDT

  •  At least L & O follows law

    and uses Miranda. In years of watching CSI (because I'm a medical junkie) I've seen the CSIs give a Miranda warning exactly once. In addition, I have never heard of forensics people doing interrogations or making arrests, have you? I could be wrong...

    More glaring incidents were a school nurse advising a pregnant girl that abortion would leave her sterile and/or cause cancer; and just a week or so ago an actor referred to marijuana as a gateway drug.

    Further, CSI becomes only more and more gruesome, rather than clever. Other than teaching a bit of biology, it has no redeeming value, IMO. The copycat factor is worrisome. I'm done with CSI too.

    by marina on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:33:45 PM PDT

    •  L&O: crime procedural. CSI: science fiction. nt

      by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:52:31 PM PDT

•  Not to worry,

  Due Process has never been present in the Guns 'n' Ammo genres of American pop culture except as an obstacle to "justice."  (On cop shows, Constitutional rights are referred to as "technicalities.") Heck, being "sent away" forever is a fortunate outcome for the perp.  Usually the bad guys get blown up in a fiery explosion, or shot, or dropped off a cliff, or all of the above, and then the credits roll.  Better to look to real life than to ridiculous TV shows.  As for real life... hmmm.

  by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:12:18 PM PDT

•  csi

  csi have screwed up jury pools, because what they show concerning evidence collection and test etc are BULLSHIT. No town, no city has that amount of time, money, resources.  So in real life trial juries act as if what the saw on CSI should be the norm, when in fact its not even close.

  Here is a real life example.  A family member of mine was brutually attacked a few years back. Well our town isnt poor at all, but we had to pull strings JUST to get a DNA test done because a DNA test have to be done in Texas and cost 10,ooo bucks a pop or there about.  Now when the test came back for trial, the offenders dna could not be indentified, what is even more shocking is that the VICTIMS dna could not even by indentified even know a whole hospital dna sample was done correctly.

  That is the cluster fuck, that real life is.   CSI is a fucking pipe dream.

  by pissedpatriot on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:13:38 PM PDT

  •  Everyone's an expert now..... nt

    A great deal has been published on the "CSI Effect" (creating ureasonable evidentiary expectations and increasing prosecutor burden) in the last couple of years. Mostly inconclusive it seems.  But me? I'm a believer.  If I was a defense attorney I'd play to it.......

    by duckhunter on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:41:09 PM PDT

•  It's a tv show fer chrissakes!

  We don't have to worry about it until a poltico starts using -- oh, I don't know -- the show 24 as justification for torture.

  by Indexer on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:15:02 PM PDT

  •  its not just a tvshow

    Now any criminal trial lawyers, ask them if CSI is a problem for them, they'll let you know its a BIG problem.

    by pissedpatriot on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:16:04 PM PDT

    •  Yes...

      but there are some interesting rebuttals to the Maricopa Study.

      I've used the study and its rebuttals in classes before. And while my students generally agreed with the study, they also felt that the rebuttals had some good point re: the prosecutors' complaints. And that the inoculation idea wasn't a bad one.

      Course I also had them watch 12 Angry Men, which is a precursor to CSI as a courtroom/jury room movie.

      by kredwyn on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:00:00 PM PDT

  •  Agree

    Just a TV show.

    So the Diarist stop watching the show. It will continue on because many others will continue to watch it, like myself.

    by redcardphreek on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:17:30 PM PDT

  •  paging the hon. scalia. hon. scalia ...

    anyone ... anyone who has read his remarks and opinions ... BUELLER! dammit ....

    by MarketTrustee on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:25:40 PM PDT

    •  Heh. n/t

      by Indexer on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:26:57 PM PDT

•  Good God

  "I just watched my last episode of CSI.  I sort of went off it about a year ago when I realised each episode was stoking fear.  Fear that if you have sex you'll be killed.  Fear that if you live in the suburbs you'll be killed.  Fear that if you enjoy swimming you'll be killed.  Fear."

  ...

  It's a TV show.  The producers' job is to make it as exciting as possible.  They can't exactly show the characters ticketing jaywalkers.

  Twenty years ago, Magnum P.I. did a very good job of making it seem like if you set foot in Hawaii, you were likely to get murdered, robbed, kidnapped, or framed for a crime you didn't commit.  Somehow, tourism there--and indeed, civilization itself--survived this blatant fear mongering.

  Once again: It's a TV show.  Repeat until it sinks in.

  by Scotus on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:15:53 PM PDT

  •  bullshit

    Once again: It's a TV show.  Repeat until it sinks in.

    BULLSHIT , its been a number one show for almost a decade , watched by fucking tens of MILLIONS of people a week.  You dont think that changes and creates public perception?

    by pissedpatriot on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:17:54 PM PDT

    •  Define "public"

      If by that you mean the people in this country too stupid to differentiate between fact and fiction, then yes, you make a great point.

      On a totally unrelated note, I'd like to thank Jack Bauer for saving the country from a nuclear explosion every year.  Thank God we have him around.  Bush should totally pardon him for that DUI he just got.

      by Scotus on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:24:46 PM PDT

      •  yeah well

        yeah well just remember that if at some point you need a jury to convict someone of wrongdoing against you or your family, thats the point. OUR 'Justice" system is made up by THE PUBLIC.

        As for Jack Bauer , at least congress isn't bring this fictional character into torture debates, ohh wait... there are, and have,  and most likely will again.

        After money, TV is the second God of this nation. Dismiss that at your own peril

        by pissedpatriot on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:38:12 PM PDT

      •  a lot of voters in that group

        If by that you mean the people in this country too stupid to differentiate between fact and fiction

        by Euroliberal on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:42:48 PM PDT

        •  Humans as a group don't totally distinguish

          fiction from fact.  That's why fiction has had such powerful effects on people, from medieval plays that demonized the Christ-killing Jews, to Uncle Tom's Cabin or The Grapes of Wrath, etc.  (Lincoln greeted Harriet Beecher Stowe by saying, "So here's the little lady who started the big war.")

          I read a while back that people in the military, including the Dean of West Point, have asked the producers of "24" to stop showing torture as a successful way to gather intelligence, because it isn't, and because young soldiers are coming into the armed forces believing that the right thing to do, the patriotic thing, is to torture prisoners even if it's against the law. And they are citing Jack Bauer as evidence.

          An interview on Democracy now points out that before 9/11 there was an average of four torture scenes A YEAR on US prime time television. Now it's more than 100. Before 9/11, bad guys used torture and it generally didn't work.  Now, often it's the good guys who use it, and it works. And yeah, the line between fact and fiction is thin. Osmosis flows both ways.

          by Fiona West on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 05:28:49 PM PDT

•  The only reason I watch CSI: Miami

  Is to play the drinking game:
  Whenever Horatio delivers his cheesy horribly written and executed "dramatic" lines, messes with his sunglasses, turns sideways to the person he is speaking to, does the "hands on hip slouch" affectation, or is on top of a tall building, hill, etc and panoramic shot ensues.  

  Heh, basically the whole episode is a drinkfest galore!

  by ninkasi23 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:17:03 PM PDT

  •  congratulations!

    your contribution to US productivity is duly noted

    by MarketTrustee on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:23:04 PM PDT

  •  those. dramatic. pauses, Eric, tag question?

    messes with his sunglasses

    The Sunglasses of Justice, we call them, at my house. That drives me nuts.

    The other three things that long ago grew old:

    1. Horatio savors a 'special moment' with some tot or moppet from the victim's family, because he's SO good with kids; and

    2. some squalid tie-in to the personal life of one of the enemble gets mixed up with the case.  5.4 million people live in Greater Miami, yet nine-tenths of all violent crimes there involve the families, not just of the CSI squad, but of the day shift of the CSI squad.

    3. The medical examiner croons to the corpse of the victim and calls it 'baby boy' (or 'baby girl' as the case may be).

    by Christopher Walker on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:57:14 PM PDT

  •  damn

    my eponymous user name couldn't compete with that, even when Newhart had two or three shows on in reruns at the same time!

    by HiBob on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:28:47 PM PDT

•  damn skippy. nt/t

  by MarketTrustee on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:20:44 PM PDT

•  What is the principle?

  I'm confused, is the point of your post that if the government can't make the primary case, then they shouldn't pursue other charges? What about Al Capone? What about Scooter Libby? They got Scooter on an event committed after they found that the primary charge was bogus, not just unprovable.

  If it's good for Scooter, it's good for everyone. That's the justice I fear. When those pressing for conviction first determine who will be caught, then go looking for a reason to do it.

  by brahma on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:22:18 PM PDT

  •  Capone and Libby had trials

    with witnesses, evidence and the whole works!  Imagine the waste of public resources.  So much more efficient to throw them away in a dark hole for life because they're scary - no need for evidence or trials.

    by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:24:20 PM PDT

    •  CSI has its moments in the courtroom

      and they've got some pretty interesting moments in the courtroom when it comes to using evidence as support for an argument.

      I think you're missing the fact that the odds are pretty good that most of those "bad guys" go through the process after they get arrested.

      Yes, there are places where the show stretches it when it comes to some of the civil liberty issues. And Miami does it far more than the Vegas show, which has its own interesting twists.

      But you have an hour with which to find the crime, investigate the crime, and come up with the evidence that will put the bad guy away.

      As I've pointed out to my students, the court process can take weeks...months...years. It's pretty rough to put that into an hour, which L&O used to do well.

      by kredwyn on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:05:02 PM PDT

      •  compressing the action is fine

        but it would be interesting to see one episode of one cop show where all of the sketchier tactics regularly used by the shows heroes are combined with some of the most damaging common evidence mistakes (misidentification by the witness/victim, etc) to convict someone that the audience knows from the beginning is innocent.

        by HiBob on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:45:49 PM PDT

  •  Er, no ...

    the primary charge, as you call it, against Scooter Libby was not bogus.  Special Council Fitzgerald was investigating the outing of Valerie Plame.  THAT was the main object of his investigation.

    Libby got caught lying.  Therefore, Fitzgerald was able to convict him with 4 counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice in this matter.
    Special Council Fitzgerald was not able to go any further because of Libby's lying.

    by linnen on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:08:16 PM PDT

    •  He knew the answer

      and the source before he ever questioned Libby. Libby got caught lying the same way you could get caught with a concealed weapon if the tire iron is loose in your trunk while you're driving down the road. If they throw enough resources at it, every body is guilty. Just not meaningfully so.

      Libby was lying about the what he knew and when he knew it, but he still wasn't the source, Armitage was. And Fitz knew it before he questioned Libby. That strikes me as punitive application of the special prosecutor power. And it's wrong.

      by brahma on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 12:43:18 PM PDT

•  Jesus! You watch ...

  .. TeeVee?  I used to joke to my spouse that the entire collection of evening crime shows should just be called "The Daily Rape".  The joke got old fast -- almost every show featured a gruesome sex assault.  A half hour with one of the British detective shows is all it takes to see that they are eagerly galoomphing after the American lead.

  It is a measure of America.  I think it's a measure of guilt -- but it may also be a measure of the NeoConmania for id-like omnipotence.  Or just another dish is the steady diet of fear that enables war criminals to remain in power.  Either way it is sad.

  by Yellow Canary on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 02:36:35 PM PDT

•  Hi LondonYank... can we talk?

  Well since I'm a dinosaur who has renounced TV altogether (films, documentaries etc another matter) I don't have the flimsiest grasp of CSI... but I know very well what you mean about the adrenal impulse that joins kneejerk USA, that now-glandular addiction to fear and singular impulse to scapegoat.

  We left.  Even from here I still worry that they snoop.  We see the shaved-headed, over-adrenalized, tattooed, mirrored-sunglasses lone guys who might really work for [censored] and have seen all the brand-new Mercedes Benz trucks driven by all who work for the company often fronting [censored] in foreign nations...  the 30 something supposedly retired police guy out walking his trained Rottweiler terrifying every Mexican he passes... and we worry.  Sure, just a retired guy enjoying the beach here in his nice Hawaiian shirts... say, where's the suntan?

  I have a sort of GBCW attitude developing too about diarying anymore on finance.  The bankers of course would not want much made of the emporer's nakedness, and no one almost ever mentions "international reserve currency" or that "tinfoil" economic approach called 'dollar hegemony.'  No, I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about if I don't introduce graphs.  Sure, finance is all just natural impulses like waves of grain, never mind that the same families who run the banks backing the FED also run this country and dictate to WSJ what they should print.  No, it can all be reduced to graphs, patterns, one-dimensional textbook ripples.  No funny business here.

  I don't usually drink beer, let alone this early.  It's been a tough day on the internet.

  It sure is good to see you still here.  Once in awhile.  Wonder about Kulczyski and a few others that rarely come around anymore...  and you...

  This is a tormented fan letter.  Thank you for the read.  I think hedge funds are the ultimate scam, but I guess we'll have to bear it out.  I'm after all just an art school cassandra, what do I know.  Silly me, the world is best measured in one-dimensional thought.  If I try to approach it with geometry, people's minds explode.

  Sorry for the rant.  Please keep posting.

  by stonemason on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:10:16 PM PDT

•  Of course that portrayal of the Patriot Act

  by CSI is utter nonsense, but, hey, why quit relying on fictional shows for legal information so long as such reliance is conducive to a rant?!

  by Drgrishka1 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:38:11 PM PDT

  •  don't be so cavalier.

    if there was no television, the supreme court and congress never would have learned about torture.

    furthermore, the kids today wouldn't be so fucked up if video games hadn't invented violence.

    by inertiac on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:51:36 PM PDT

    •  They learned about it from

      CSI?  Or from a real news program?!  

      by Drgrishka1 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 03:55:26 PM PDT

      •  Define "real news program." /nt

        by beagledad on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:16:12 PM PDT

        •  Well, let's say CBS.

          You may quibble with my definitions, but I am 100% certain that they did not learn about it from CSI or Law & Order or ER or Seinfeld.

          by Drgrishka1 on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:37:29 PM PDT

      •  no!!

        they learned about if from twenty-four, before which they had never even conceived of the idea let alone, implemented, justified, or enabled it.

        by inertiac on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:50:44 PM PDT

  •  Absolute nonsense! Wrong law.

    If they want to lock someone up without a trial, they need to use the Military Commissions Act, and it has to be big, because only the President can declare him an enemy combatant.  Funny... originally, I was so naive that I thought an enemy combatant was someone who actually, you know, combatted against the US.  Like, fired a gun at US troops or something.  But no, according to the current administration, that's entirely for the President to decide.  For reasons which need not be shared with anyone, because of national security. Which is also whatever the President says it is.

    In all fairness, we should note that this has been done to lots of non-US folks but only to a US citizen once.  So far.  And eventually the courts said no, they had to give him a lawyer and a trial. By then he was such a mess from years of solitary confinement and "enhanced interrogation techniques" that he was found incompetent to stand trial.  But now the shrinks say he's better, so we may actually find out if the Bushies locked up and brutalized a really Big Bad Guy, or if it was just another of their multitudinous mistakes.  

    Ooops.  Sorry about those four years of your life. And those little lapses in mental function. (Shrug)

    CSI:Miami may be off the mark, but they aren't all that far off the mark.  Not nearly as far off as they should be, if civil liberties were still taken seriously in this country.

    And of course shows like that, where the good guys don't want to be bothered with little things like trials because they're so dedicated to protecting little children, help sell the idea that civil liberties don't NEED to be taken seriously. Hey, if you haven't done anything wrong, what's your beef?

    by Fiona West on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 04:33:16 PM PDT

    •  Once.

      In all fairness, we should note that this has been done to lots of non-US folks but only to a US citizen once.  So far.

      Once. So far. That we know about.

      How many others are there that we don't yet know about, or may never know about?

      by Mnemosyne on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:41:17 PM PDT

      •  You're right. Absolutely right. We don't know.

        But even if it's only only been done once -- to a US citizen -- non-US citizens are human beings as well and the treatment of detainees at Gitmo is a human rights outrage and a disgrace to our nation.

        And even if it has only been done once to a US citizen, that once is a profound wrong and a sign of how fragile our civil liberties tradition has become.

        by Fiona West on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 06:58:13 AM PDT

•  I stopped watching TV

  decades ago when they started this using the glamor of cop shows to convince us that we didn't need our civil rights because the concept was "outdated". Yeah -- that's it -- "due process is for losers". It was no longer cool. What was more important to any red-blooded American was to "get rid of the riff-raff", although they never really told us clearly who the riff-raff were. That was the message. It began with Kojak. The idea was that it was OK and desirable to rough-up criminal suspects, and that the world was neatly divided into "good guys" and "bad guys" (students of psychology will recognize this as a borderline trait). Over the years the programs have slowly taught the public that it is OK and desirable to violate someone's constitutional rights if they are unpopular enough, or if you think you have a "really good reason". They have taught us that the police are infinitely powerful, always right, and moral heroes. They have taught us that unlimited power is bestowed on people because they are righteous and desirable. They have taught us that people never change. Criminals are criminals forever, and the good guys are good guys forever -- in all aspects and from all viewpoints. They have taught us to focus anger on stereotypes. They have taught us that the constitutional protections our ancestors fought and died for were really just silly mistakes, and that all you needed for justice was plain old common sense and a big gun. Yes, they have taught us many things that seemed so popular and so right that we elected the image of that worldview somehow thinking that the episode would end like the show. It didn't.

  by phaktor on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 05:00:16 PM PDT

•  Join the club, London Yank. I swore I wouldn't

  visit the US again until Bush was gone after the 2004 elections, and almost all of my family, including children and grandchildren, live south of the border (I'm Canadian). I've kept that vow, and look forward to visiting the US again once the country comes to it's senses.

  by skrymir on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 05:53:58 PM PDT

•  I know a guy who is a homicide detective

  He hates the CSI shows.  He absolutely hates them.
  I've never watched the shows myself.  I imagine them to be much like war/army fiction--only vaguely like reality.

  I've been busy reintegrating--we're bidding on a new contract at work, and lots of other things going on.  I've been sicker than hell the last few weeks, and we've only now gotten a hand on it.
  I'm not going to Iraq with the rest of my brigade.  I'm on a medical hold for a year from deployment, not that I'm complaining any.

  by soonergrunt on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:12:20 PM PDT

  •  Soonergrunt

    Nice to see you back . . . stateside? Now I can move you off the immediate prayer list onto the one for outcomes to be desired: an end to the madness within the next year, so you won't have to go back there.

    Take care of yourself.

    by Mnemosyne on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:45:41 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, I'm home. Glad to be here too.

      Thanks!

      by soonergrunt on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 07:57:02 PM PDT

  •  I've been wondering where you were

    I figured it was going to be an adjustment for you to be back and decided to let you get in touch in your own time, but boy, am I glad to hear from you!

    Sorry to hear about your being sick.  Was it something you picked up over there or something you picked up here when you got back?  Anyway, I'm glad they've figured it out and hope you're well soon.

    And I'm delighted you're not going to Iraq, even though I know your brigade will miss you.  You've only just got home and shouldn't be redeployed so soon - any of you.  This war has gotten ridiculous about churning troops - and Guardsmen (there used to be a distinction, I believe) - back to the warzones with inadequate leave.

    Same old, same old here.  I'm not writing as much these days.  I kind of don't know whether to despair or hope.  Plenty of cause for both, depending on where you look in both the markets and geopolitics.

    by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:23:58 PM PDT

    •  Just went back to read you comments

      I've been checking off and on to see if you were posting.  Glad to have you back - and to see you bringing your humour and insight back to the threads.

      by LondonYank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:31:19 PM PDT

    •  I've been having weight control issues

      for some time.  Also tired a lot.  This has been going on for years.  Well, starting about the time I returned, I started gaining back all of the weight I lost in country, and then some.  54 pounds in seven weeks.  So in to the Doctor's office I go...
      I have hypothyroidism.  My thyroid doesn't work at all.  According to my doctor, this is something that should've been caught six or seven years ago, from what he's seen of my medical records.  Well, the thyroid regulates metabolism and weight among other things, and I started having these issues about seven years ago.
      So now I'm on synthetic thyroid hormone for the rest of my life, but it could be worse.  The weight is coming off again, and I feel a little better every day.  This has not only put me on hold for deployments, but also for Warrant Officer school.
      Also, I've been refinishing my daughter's bedroom furniture and planting around the house, which we didn't get to do before I left.  Some other stuff going on has kept my free time short, but life is good, over all.  There are others in this world, and in this country who have it much worse than I, and I feel that I am blessed to live such a life as I have.

      by soonergrunt on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 04:14:04 AM PDT

      •  It's all manageable

        I had a nanny with hypothyroidism.  She improved hugely after it was finally diagnosed and treated, and lives happily ever after.  The tricky part is diagnosing it.  From now on it's manageable.

        Maybe that's the right way to think about the problems in geopolitics and in life generally.  The tricky part is figuring out what the reality is trying to tell you so you can treat the causes and not the symptoms.

        by LondonYank on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 01:11:58 PM PDT