Is Impeachment an Option?

I wasn't a big impeachment fan until the last few days....Then this nonsense started. Bush is going to veto SCHIP which has relatively large bi-partisan support. It's a good, fair, just policy that is probably the only decent legislation to come out of congress in the last 6 years. That's just ugly. But not unusual. There is still the horrific violation of civil liberties with the continued suspension of Habeaus Corpus, the eviscerated FISA program and the off the books crap that is certainly happening with extraordinary rendition which has not yet been formally repudiated and, of course, the detainees at Gitmo who live in a kind of sense deprived vacuum. That's bad and ugly and impeachable all by itself. But is it enough to pull the trigger?

For me? Yes! For you? No?

Okay, well then, maybe what's impeachable is the absolute disregard that this administration has shown toward the only 'governmental' lever left to heft the great dead and stinking rot the executive branch has created and anxiously protected over the last six year?

Congressional oversight.

First the refusal to testify honestly from the head of the Department of Justice down through nearly every single one of the political appointees there.

Then there's the Libbie trial refusal from Rove, et. al. Cheney's stonewalling on everything from his stovepiping activities to this energy commission to merely finding out who the hell is on his staff. This is all really bad and worthy of impeachment. Period.

But even so maybe you're not ready to pull the trigger because you knew what the Republicans were all set up to say: "It's all political" in their uniformly ignorant and arrogant castrati whines.

But finally there is this:  since the murder of at least 11 Iraqi civilians by Blackwater contractors  in Iraq, aides to Secretary of State Rice have notified Henry Waxman that

she herself will not testify about Blackwater or about Iraqi corruption inquiries pending before the committee. (In addition, other officials at State have refused to answer questions in the corruption inquiry unless the committee agrees not to disclose their answers.)

Despite this, Waxman has scheduled a Blackwater hearing for October 2 and requested that Blackwater founder Erik Prince testify.

Looking at this from a contemporary perspective, this strikes me as ongoing murder for private profit; paid for with our tax dollars, being protected by the Executive branch. In short, it's a Mafia operation.

So, yes, I think impeaching our Executive branch for acting like a bunch of muderous Capos is perfectly in order. Not only that, it's efficacy doesn't really matter. You go after the Capo di tutti capi because he's the freaking Capo di tutti capi. The point isn't political anymore. It's to stop the freaking operation, Capisci? Can we please get this going?

•  Tips

  by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:12:13 PM PDT

  •  It's long overdue.

    And I don't believe it will happen, because Granny Nan will stonewall it no matter what. She won't stonewall FISA loosening. She won't stonewall war funding. She won't stonewall any other capitulation.

    But this, she'll stop dead in its tracks.

    by khereva on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:22:40 PM PDT

    •  Pelosi won't "stall" impeachment

      It's just not gonna happen because impeachment hearings would be detrimental to Hillary's presidential ambitions - with daily news that includes the word "impeachment"
      and the airwaves filled with - "I did not have sex with that woman."

      by annefrank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:55:05 PM PDT

      •  Which bothers me because?

        by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:57:50 PM PDT

        •  I have no idea if it bothers you

          But the Dems could choose to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law - or protect Hillary. They chose Hillary.

          by annefrank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:03:09 PM PDT

•  NO!!!!!

  Impeachment is only an "option" if you want to waste your time and money.  We have been talking impeachment since the 2004 election.  The Democrats in Congress will NOT vote for impeachment.

  I do not know you, but my advice would be to choose a candidate and support him or her.  You want to talk about impeachment until the day Bush leaves office, fine, but is it a realistic option?  is it a think that could possibly happen?  NO, the answer is NO.

  Please move on and try to keep a Repub from winning the the presidency again.  

  by TurkeyCreek on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:24:26 PM PDT

  •  I'm so frustrated with this

    Please move on B.S.  If you can guarantee that these "folks" won't get away with what they have done, I'm fine with "no impeachment".  I wouldn't want a Democrat doing this either....and it's starting to look like Hillary is behaving like Mr. Bush when it comes to controlling the media (I'm hoping that's an overstatement) re:  putting the kibosh on an unfavorable story regarding her campaign, according to MSNBC (I think it was on Dan Abrams).

    by billlaurelMD on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:39:39 PM PDT

    •  Most likely more BushCo crimes will emerge

      after Jan. 09 - and it's highly unlikely a former first lady would initiate investigations into a former president's son and his corrupt administration - cause dynasties coverup the crimes of the previous rulers.
      Yet another reason to vote for John Edwards - who WILL INVESTIGATE!

      by annefrank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:58:13 PM PDT

    •  hey

      you want to burn youself up, go ahead.  The question was "is impeachment on the table" the answer is no.  

      by TurkeyCreek on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:12:38 PM PDT

  •  It never takes too long to do the right and just

    thing and that is defend our Constitution!  

    by the way it only took about a month to impeach Clinton.  I think a month (since ZERO is getting done anyway) to preserve our Country and it's rule of law and the Constitution is more important than ANYTHING else at this point!

    And by  starting Impeachment Hearings, we may have to start with Nancy.

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:20:17 PM PDT

•  YES Impeachment is THE Option

  Write/Call elected representatives and demand that they STOP the criminal Bush and Cheney by IMPEACHMENT

  by barbybuddy on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:24:49 PM PDT

•  Bush could always resign

  it always amazes me the word is never mentioned.

  by ohcanada on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:25:38 PM PDT

  •  Resign?

    When everything is going so well between him and the Democrats?  Perish the thought.

    by Compound F on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:27:47 PM PDT

  •  I think they both would resign

    once the first dribblings of their crimes our broadcast in impeachment hearings.

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:07:26 PM PDT

•  well, I was for impeachment eons ago.

  Now, we would be damned lucky to get Congress to do ANYTHING.  The illegal war crimes must come to an immediate end, and that's not happening.

  Thanks, Democrats, you assholes beyond belief.

  by Compound F on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:26:16 PM PDT

•  I saw Pelosi on Wolf Blitzer's show today..

  and she reiterated once again that impeachment is definitely off the table. She muttered something about the Repugs in the Senate now own the war, so Bush is off the hook for anything and everything, I guess.

  by Rumarhazzit on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:31:00 PM PDT

  •  this makes no sense at all

    unless you view Iraq as an entirely political question and leave off the fact that, you know, actual humans are dying every single day we stay there.

    And furthermore, every single day we stay there we make matters worse for the US and for Iraq.

    This doesn't even address the issue of congressional oversight.

    What fucking world do these people live in?

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:34:22 PM PDT

    •  it doesn't make sense to me either.

      Since when has the impeachable become acceptable?  Oh wait...when it wasn't consensual sex.

      by billlaurelMD on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:36:28 PM PDT

  •  disgusting playing of politics

    so they can win in 2008.  But...what would the Republicans do in their shoes?

    by billlaurelMD on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:35:25 PM PDT

  •  Pelosi needs to know it's not her "call"

    it's the Country's Call.

    Remove Pelosi first!

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:21:40 PM PDT

    •  That's right I think

      it's nuts for her to take impeachment off the table.

      And if she refuses to persue it, then, next question, what political mechanism is there to get rid of the speaker of the house from your own party...Is that also impeachment?

      by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:25:28 PM PDT

•  Is it an option?

  Yes it is.

  Should it be done?

  Yes it should.

  Why?

  Because the acts of this president are exactly what the Founders had in mind when they thought of impeachment. No one fits the pictue of it better then Bush and Cheney.

  But it distracts from the 2008 elections!

  Yes and no. It would distract in a way, that being it would force attention on the act of impeachment and away from the race leading up to the 2008 elections. Yet, at the same time, no other act would more clearly define the Democrats desire to do what is right and to show true backbone in trying to right the wrongs.

  Face it, as long as Bush is president he will continue to do what he pleases no matter what Congress does. The way to remedy the cancer is to remove the tumor and that is Bush and Cheney.

  Impeachment would become the central theme of the race if it was attempted.

  **********

  There are times when what is politically expidient is not the right thing to do. The right thing to do would be to attempt the impeachment of Bush and Cheney.

  Doing the right thing in the face of what looks like over-whelming fear takes courage and fortitude.

  If the Democrats did the right thing and went for impeachment, no matter how doomed to fail Pelosi seems to think it is, they would recover a lot of the respect they have lost.

  Doing the right thing usually rewards those who have the courage to do so.

  Unfortunatly this is a lesson that is lost on Pelosi. She has shown herself to be unworthy as Speaker.

  by Kalakzak on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:47:20 PM PDT

  •  Spot on analysis

    Kalakzak.

    Now all we have to do is convince 2/3s of the House and its leadership...:-)

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:53:11 PM PDT

    •  Thanks.

      When I think on what it is I would do if I were in Congress I can not fail to see my ability to keep my idealism.

      I can be just as greedy and self-serving as anyone but, no matter what, my moral compass on many things just will not be over-ridden.

      I'd go down in flames fighting for the right cause if I was there - and even loosing still be able to look at myself in the mirror and walk with pride.

      I just can not get past it and see how they can be so spineless.

      Nor can I understand the stupidity of Pelosi taking impeachment off the table from the get go. Even if she never intended to let it be used you do not flat out remove your biggest negotiating tool from the table. Ever.

      by Kalakzak on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:59:50 PM PDT

•  Large crowd in Miami for impeachment

  Last week we had over 200 people meet in Miami to organize for impeachment. People are mad!

  

  More info here:

  www.floridaimpeach.org

  by DavidW on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:53:10 PM PDT

  •  Yep! they're mad - many of us are

    But the Dems chose Hillary over impeachment - and that's the end of it.

    by annefrank on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:00:39 PM PDT

    •  You've already mentioned that on this thread

      as a 'dem' I'd appreciate it if you'd qualify that broad statement by saying something like the 'Hillary supporters' choose Hillary over impeachment.

      I'm voting for Edwards. The primaries haven't happened yet and despite HRC's effort at convincing God the world and everyone else of her so called invincibility I want to see her shot down in flames and I'm counting on me, you and everyone else in the progressive blogsphere to ensure her candidacy dies like the fucking zombie corpse from dlc hell it truly is.

      by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:12:00 PM PDT

      •  Well - Hillary supporters

        essentially are choosing Hillary over the Constitution - and condoning Congress and prez candidates accepting bribe money from DC lobbyists who influence legislation that favors corporations - courtesy of U.S. taxpayers. And the pay-to-play cycle continues...

        by annefrank on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 06:44:45 AM PDT

        •  Nifty new analysis.

          And not a word about Murdoch.

          by DCDemocrat on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 08:26:25 AM PDT

          •  Or Vince Foster...

            What gives? LMAO!

            by KnowVox on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 10:45:47 AM PDT

•  Whether one supports impeachment or not,

  there is simply no way that this very political process will take place in an election year. Ain't gonna happen. We are now fully entering the primary season. It's over and, yes, it's time to move on.

  by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:53:41 PM PDT

  •  My mind has begrudgingly accepted what you

    say, Bouwerie Boy. Such an empty feeling, but alas, it has happened.

    by Rumarhazzit on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:05:17 PM PDT

  •  Ramp Up the Speed!

    In 1974, The House Judiciary met from May to July to determine Articles of Impeachment. That's only two months. November and December. The Senate would be the tryer of fact, give that a month. January. By the end of February, we may have another swearing in...It can be done, even with the time constraints, and it should be done.

    I don't think there will be any meaningful legislation if there is not an impeachment.  

    by Empower Ink on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:54:40 PM PDT

    •  But it will not be done because

      it is now a Presidential election year. BTW, there were many, many months of investigations and court proceedings before we reached the point in 74 which you refer too. It is simply not going to happen now. It's time to fully  focus on removing this regime via the ballot.

      by Bouwerie Boy on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:00:58 PM PDT

      •  just pick a crime and run with it

        there are so many to choose from that we already know are impeachable.

        by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:08:47 PM PDT

•  welcome to the fold

  by Thought Crime on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:57:31 PM PDT

  •  Okay, I have some inkling of what this

    might mean, but I'd be really grateful for a bit more elaboration...

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 08:59:08 PM PDT

•  Impeachment is an imperative

  Oh, and impeach Cheney first.

  by londubh on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:02:19 PM PDT

•  here is how to impeach

  Impeach both CHEANY and bush. Vote  to impeach in the house just prior to both political conventions, have the senate trial after the conventions. This allows repub sens to look at how voting to impeach may help them in the GE and they would have no worry of being primaried out.

  by hasdrubal on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:04:40 PM PDT

•  Impeachment is like the war

  We don't have the votes to impeach so why embarrass ourselves.

  by linnie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:13:44 PM PDT

  •  Because war, unlike impeachment

    is a murderous slaughter that kills your daughters and sons. Impeachment is a political correction to the reality of an utterly corrupt system.

    War is worse, and to stop a war I'm willing to undergo a bit of embarassment.

    Why the hell aren't you?

    by DelicateMonster on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:27:55 PM PDT

  •  Impeachment Hearings are a Process

    There is no guarantee that they will have the votes, however, the hearing themselves will be broadcast LIVE for the World to see.  We already know many crimes of BushCo that are Impeachable offenses.

    Even if as Dear Nancy seems to think defending the Constitution is only worth it if it's winnable (and she should go for that statement alone) the People of this Country would cheer and approve the mere reasons for trying.

    The Bush Administration’s Corruption was key in the landslide in November.  The Country and the World would be on the side of accountability, regardless if they had the final votes.  Once the lies and evil are shown and broadcast, they will have the votes they need to Impeach.

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 09:36:39 PM PDT

  •  You Go To The War with the votes that You have

    But there will be a strange alchemy rising up during the hearings. There is such a long, long list of lies, corruption, fraud, violations of the US Constituion and The Rule of Law. And once all this vile behaviour is exposed for what it is, repugs will start getting the vapors of truth and the AMerican people will be clamoring for Impeachment.

    When Nixon's Impeachment Hearings started, there weren't the votes for impeachment or conviction, but after hearing evidence, when it was time to vote in the House, we had the votes. And enough for conviction in the Senate that Removal from Office would have been inevitable...So Nixon resigns.

    We wouldn't be embarrassing ourselves. We would be standing up for the US Constitution and the means by which Congress can halt the tyranny of a delusional president. Just because we may not "win" doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reign in these people crazed with executive privilege with which to cover their vile crimes.  

    by Empower Ink on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:14:30 PM PDT

    •  Amen!

      by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:18:36 PM PDT

•  Sorry, but

  if you can't convict, you don't prosecute.

  If the end result of the impeachment process is a vote to acquit in the Senate, and it would be, then impeachment is a complete waste of time.

  A meaningless symbolic gesture.

  A pointless exercise in "sending a message."

  Here's a hint, folks... if your only argument for or against something is that "it would send the right/wrong message" then you lose the argument. This is a universal rule of politics, to which no exceptions can be found.

  Only results matter. Everything else is bullshit. And there's as much chance of a conviction in the Senate as there is of me making a standing broad jump from here to the Moon.

  Show me any possible way in which an impeachment process results in the removal of Bush and Cheney from office, and I'll support it whole-heartedly. But if that won't happen, then I don't give a damn about impeachment.

  --Shannon

  by Leftie Gunner on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:19:25 PM PDT

  •  so let me get this straight

    you don't do the right thing unless you "know" you will win?  

    Never played sports I guess.  Never ran for anything or tried out for something as a kid?

    Wow.  

    I am glad our forefathers didn't think like you because if they did we would still be under British Rule.

    Yeah, why bother to do the right thing.  

    by MadAsHellMaddie on Tue Sep 25, 2007 at 10:36:11 PM PDT

    •  You've got it backwards

      It's not that you don't move forward unless you know you can win, but rather that you do not move forward is you know you cannot.

      Doing the math, that's how I see it right now. There are not, and will not be, 67 votes in the Senate to convict.

      I'm not interested in "doing the right thing" for its own sake. I'm only interested in actual results. In this case, the only result that I care about is the removal of Bush and Cheney from office. That's the point of an impeachment, after all.

      I leave symbols to the symbol-minded.

      --Shannon

      by Leftie Gunner on Wed Sep 26, 2007 at 10:36:40 PM PDT