Daily Kos

Homeopathy in UK Health Service Under Siege from Big Pharma

Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:03:16 PM PDT

Contrary to the simplistic view, the UK National Health Service is not a true single payer. Spending decisions and budgets are devolved to a local "Primary Care Trust" (PCT). These are based on geographical areas and can be thought of as a bit like an HMO for everyone in, say a county or borough of a city.

For this reason what range of treatments you can get on the NHS depend on where you live and the priorities of your local PCT. While most treatments recommended by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence are automatically available, new and expensive drugs and alternative treatments are decided by the PCT. Patients have had access to homeopathic treatments since a commitment given at the very foundation of the NHS. Now a concerted campaign by doctors wedded to conventional medicine together with an organization funded by big pharma are pressurizing PCTs to withdraw funding for homeopathy and a specialist hospital unit is under threat of closure. That organization is also highly involved in promoting GM foods which are dependent on chemicals produced by the very same companies making pharmaceutical drugs.

This week the West Kent PCT decided to cease funding homeopathic treatment. This puts at risk the Tunbridge Wells Homeopathic Hospital which has been treating patients for over 100 years. The unit shares the building with community paediatrics and a child and adolescent mental health service. The homeopathic services are run by consultants Dr David Ratsey and Dr Helmut Roniger, supported by five other doctors. All are skilled in not just complementary techniques but also in conventional medical practice. The hospital is run by the Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells NHS Trust, which will have to consider the future of the hospital after the loss of funding. The Hospital performs an important teaching function in addition to providing treatments and has a support group fighting to save it.

For the last two years letters have appeared from a group of mostly retired doctors and medical scientists calling for such funding to be withdrawn. These come out in May when the process of consultation on spending for the following (April-March) financial year are being proposed. The 2006 letter (.pdf) came out in the name of Professor Michael Baum, Emeritus Professor of Surgery at University College, London "and others". A very similar letter was sent to PCT Directors of Commissioning in May this year, this time under the name of Professor Gustav Born FRS Emeritus Professor of Pharmacology, Kings College London "and others" including Professor Baum.
The Times online reproduces this letter. Born was a signatory to the 2006 letter. The letters have similar arguments that the express their concern

about the continued provision to patients of ‘alternative’ medicine including homeopathy, in the absence of evidence of efficacy, across the NHS. This reflected our broader concern with the need to promote evidence-based medicine in the provision of all medical services, which we are sure that you share.

"Evidence based medicine" are of course convention drugs. The problem for homeopathy (and acupuncture) is that the explanations of the way they work is counter-intuitive. The principle in homeopathy for example is that the greater the dilution, the more effective the treatment. Both are often dismissed as only effective because of the placebo effect - a patient believes it will work so feels better. Unfortunately that does not explain how both can be used to treat animals effectively unless we are to believe that the subjects have faith that the pills being given to them will work.  However to promote their cause they provide some background briefing:

If you have not already reviewed your own trust’s provision, you might find it useful to consider, in conjunction with your Director of Public Health, the paper that we have enclosed which, while not a full review of the scientific position, has been used by other trusts to promote evidence based commissioning.

That paper was a document (.pdf) produced by an organization called Sense About Science. Who describe themselves on their web site:

Sense About Science is an independent charitable trust promoting good science and evidence in public debates. We do this by promoting respect for evidence and by urging scientists to engage actively with a wide range of groups, particularly when debates are controversial or difficult.

Your suspicions may start to be raised when you lood at the list of donors to Sense About Science These include the rather coyly abbreviated Association of British Pharmaceutical Industries (ABPI), GE Healthcare, and pharma companies GlaxoSmithKline, Oxford GlycoSciences plc, Pfizer plc, and Unilever plc.

In January this year Sense About Science started a campaign to attack various celebrities and their views on genetically modified foodstuffs and their preference for organic food. A response was published in the Daily Mail written by the environmentalist Zac Goldsmith. Goldsmith has advised the Conservative Party in the UK on the "green" policies and is on their list of prospective candidates they would like to stand at the next election, the so-called "A List". This is part of what he wrote.

The pamphlet is full of what it regards to be false, but nevertheless anodyne assertions by celebrities about the benefits of homeopathy and so on, and ends with an offer by the organisation to act as a fact-checking service. However it is the pamphlet's repeated objection to any hint that chemicals might not be good for our health that suggests an altogether less helpful agenda.

and

SAS is often described as an aggressively pro-GM lobby group. But it's much, much more than that. It is born of a bizarre political network that began life as the ultra-left Revolutionary Communist Party and switched over to extreme corporate libertarianism when it launched Living Marxism magazine in the late eighties. LM advocated lifting restrictions on child pornography, it opposed banning tobacco advertising, supported human cloning and so on. In as much as it has a central philosophy, it is a fierce opposition to the state attempting to protect citizens from the excesses of big business. But its real goal, and the reason for its political zigzagging, may stem from a long-held hatred of any kind of positive reform that might risk prolonging the system they hate. They call it "revolutionary defeatism". By helping to accelerate the contradictions of capitalism they believe they are hastening the move to the 'next stage' of human development.

During the nineties, Living Marxism was successful at influencing the British media coverage of science and environment issues, particularly relating to GM food. But in 2000, it was sued for claiming that ITN had falsified evidence of Serb atrocities against Bosnian Muslims, and was forced to close. It soon reinvented itself as the Institute of ideas, and the on-line magazine Spiked.

At each step in its evolution, it has been largely the same people who have given life to this strange movement and painstaking research by Jonathan Matthews of www.gmwatch.org shows it is many of the same people who now put themselves forward as the faces of respectable, and trustworthy science.

Article by Zac Goldsmith about SAS

The activities of SAS in promoting GM foods and details of the personalities involved in it can be found here on the GMWatch site

[UPDATE:]

  1. Several posters seem to suggest that I am proposing homeopathy become available. That is not the case. Homeopathic treatment was available from 1948 under the Health Service. The diary is therefore not about introducing it to the NHS, it is concerned with whether patients already being treated should continue to do so as well as whether future patients should have access. I should also reiterate this is a complementary therapy, not a replacement for all medication.
  1. The original description of how both homeopathy and acupuncture work are not in accord with current scientific thinking however there is no question that patients report improvements or there would be no demand for it.
  1. Because facilities are limited, NHS homeopathy treatments tend to be available after conventional medicines have found to be wanting either because they are ineffective or have side effects unacceptable to the patient. The usual "scientific" explanation is that supposed cures are a placebo effect and I did not wish to enter into a debate over the matter other than to point out that there is cost saving if conventional drugs are not used or less used. Many patients wish this type of treatment because of the side effects from conventional drugs and another route for the improvement may be the withdrawal of them!
  1. Homeopathic treatments are accepted as legitimate by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons who list vets trained in and providing it as a separate index so that they can be found easily.

Under the terms of the (UK) Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966, it is illegal for anyone other than a RCVS-registered Veterinary Surgeon to prescribe homeopathy for animals or to diagnose or give advice based upon a diagnosis. This includes but is not limited to homeopathy, acupuncture, herbal medicine and aromatherapy.

see: http://www.bahvs.com

Animal owners would not pay good money if they did not see a benefit from using homeopathy.

All of that suggests that homeopathic treatment is recognized as effective in animals. Critics may well wish to explain how animals develop a belief in their treatment so that a placebo effect is generated.

Tags: homeopathy, health care (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 47 comments

  •  Tip jar (11+ / 0-)

    Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

    by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 12:57:53 PM PDT

    •  I use acupuncture, not homeopathy, but (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      emmasnacker, Lib Dem FoP, jlms qkw

      my view (as a trained bio-scientist, practicing bio-engineer) is that there needs to be institutional and legal space in which alternative medical practices can operate.

      I don't want to get into to pros and cons over different types of alternatives, and I certainly don't want to be seen as endorsing what I will loosely call New Age Charlatanism, but acupuncture is thousands of years old, and is accepted all over the Far East.  Homeopathy has not perhaps the ancient pedigree, but is widely practiced and accepted in Continental Europe.

      As such, I have a real problem if either is attacked by Big Pharma, which I know somewhat from the inside, and which is not (as Dkos readers know) the altruistic and rationalistic juggernaut it pretends to be,

      The hungry judges soon the sentence sign, And wretches hang, that jurymen may dine.

      by magnetics on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:25:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  tip because it's good to air these things (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jxg, Justanothernyer

      NOT because any of your arguments or statements in the diary are valid or substantiated by sound science.

    •  No tax money for faith-based medicine (0+ / 0-)

      Support for alternative medicine should not be a progressive principle.  We're supposed to be the reality-based community, after all.

      Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment, you must also be right. - Robert Park

      by Soberish on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 11:47:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  have (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    emmasnacker, el dorado gal, jlms qkw

    used homeopathy alone or with other medicines for over thirty years; it always get me through tough spots; every home should have homeopathic first aid remedies and understand the basics; on that note I'll google for a url; thanks for the diary;

    If McCain is president we will be moving towards the WW IV that he has been favoring and predicting. - Zbigniew Brzezinski

    by pollwatch on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:02:48 PM PDT

  •  URLs some basics (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    emmasnacker, jlms qkw

    If McCain is president we will be moving towards the WW IV that he has been favoring and predicting. - Zbigniew Brzezinski

    by pollwatch on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 01:05:39 PM PDT

  •  I have my doubts about Homeopathy (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jxg, Tyrannocaster, jlms qkw

    I know that there were studies funded by the NIH in the 1990s to try and nail down the issue of whether or not Homeopathy was simply a placebo effect and I don't believe any of the studies were able to conclude otherwise.

    OTOH Big Pharma is evil and some of the very drugs they push aren't that efficacious either!

    •  "big pharma is evil" (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jxg, swissffun, lemming22, Justanothernyer

      I take it you refuse to use any prescription medicines then?

      •  exactly, and vaccines! (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer
      •  this is like saying Agriculture is evil (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer

        because it cuts mother earth and requires chemical inputs. well, if people holding the diarist's point of view - faithfully adhered to their principles well disease and hunger would takes their tool mighty quick.

        •  Presumption (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          emmasnacker

          You presume I am in favor of the sole use of homeopathy, I am not. However for those who have tried it, found it effective and who wish to continue to use it rather than relying on drugs which give them distressing side effects or are ineffective.

          The actual cost is tiny compared to the overall NHS budget and even if say, half those treated by homeopathy found relief, the savings in drugs costs would outweigh the cost of providing it.

          Growing food requires "chemicals". Whether those should come from organic methods of production or be scattered from bags of artificially manufactured powders is one question. The other question is whether those foods should be produced from GM plants which have not been shown to be safe. Strangely enough that is one factor that the FDA supposedly requires new drugs to be.

          As for those who rely on it. Well Queen Elizabeth seems to be doing rather well on it and her mother lived to over 100 and also relied on it. In addition, the Queen's horses are treated homeopathically. Perhaps you would like to explain how they generate a placbo effect.

          Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

          by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:37:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I have my doubts about (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Lib Dem FoP

      whatever you want to call the "cure the symptom with surgery or drug" system that is in place here in the US, but I will defend your right to use it if you wish.
      In return, it would be really nice if those who use that system would also defend the rights of those who believe in alternative systems to use them.

      Right many of the people who don't believe in any system of "health care" except those that include specialists for each hair and drugs to cure everything are really quite nasty to folks who want to use alternatives, and claim good health with those systems.

      Hands off my Social Security, John McCain.

      by emmasnacker on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 06:35:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  homeopathy is garbage. No reason is should be (9+ / 0-)

    funded. You might as well fund astrologers.

    •  roughly said, but (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      jxg, akeitz, Justanothernyer

      scientifically there is just not the evidence to back up most, if not all, of the alternative medicines promoted. and basic medical coverage should focus FIRST on providing reliable, or at least reliably tested, therapies, for ALL.

      the rest is icing on the cake, and should be available with supplemental insurance that people and their insurers can negotiate.

      it's not a 'right'.

      •  Acupuncture is reliable therapy, (0+ / 0-)

        validated by thousands of years of practice.

        BTW, I hold an advanced degree in Biochemistry, just sign me

        Elmer Ph(u)d

        The hungry judges soon the sentence sign, And wretches hang, that jurymen may dine.

        by magnetics on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 08:20:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And experimentally validated (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          magnetics

          There is a recent study (.pdf) intended to prove the design of a needed much larger study which nevertheless showed a significant increase in patient satisfaction over a group which received only GP care and over a control group which had fake acupuncture (to show any placebo effect)

          Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

          by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 08:45:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Acupuncture (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          magnetics

          Btw, I have not had homeopathic treatment but I have had acupuncture from my GP who is a GP Consultant (a higher training grade within the NHS) who also happens to be Muslim. He is also fairly high up in an association for Muslim doctors. As a religious group, they are more open to alternative treatments as there is a tradition of treating the whole patient within Muslim medicine. The treatment was for a long period Bell's palsey not caused by a stroke and it did aid recovery compared to a previous time I had it.

          He also has an osteopath who has a clinic within the health centre and again that was useful to treat a neck/shoulder injury I had.

          Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

          by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 08:52:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Cost benefit (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      emmasnacker

      The simple fact is that, placebo effect or not, it provides greater relief from symptoms for some people than conventional medicines and with no side effects.

      Homeopathy, because of the comparative rarity of practitioners, is usually only available after a range of convention drugs have been tried. Conventional medicine would have you try more drugs and more powerful drugs to alleviate symptoms.

      If, however, such things as chronic pain and anxiety are relieved by homeopathic treatments, then that treatment works out far cheaper than going the conventional route.

      In the case of the NHS, the orginal commitment was given to bring all hospitals into the scheme and many were set up by charities as homeopathic hospitals.

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:09:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Muddled think your brain emits (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer

        If the scientific evidence of its effectiveness does not exist, you have no basis for claiming that it brings relief from symptoms. Wishful thinking is not an argument.

        "If chronic pain is relieved by homeopathy.."

        and "If George Bush is actually our greatest President" are equally valid hypotheses.

        •  Yet for patients it does. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          el dorado gal

          The simple fact is that for a number of conditions, patients get relief from their symptoms. While this is anecdotal evidence, the cost savings are real. If it did not work for those individuals, they would discontinue it.

          This is the real point. If it is a treatment that works for the individual, has no harmful side effect and costs less than a spectrum of conventional drugs which have been tried and found not to be effective, then the cost savings are enough to justify its continued availability.

          Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

          by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:48:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Don't bother trying to discuss (0+ / 0-)

            anything with this type. There could be 10thousand people supplying anecdotal evidence, and if the AMA don't say it's so, they ain't going to believe anything.
            Big Pharma runs the "scientific" tests, and so they are bound to be found wanting.
            I am anecdotal evidence, but am usually called crazy in the middle of answering the asked question of why I am rarely "sick", despite being surrounded by people who cough, hack, bleed, bruise, puke, exude pus or are tired all the time.
            Go figger.

            Hands off my Social Security, John McCain.

            by emmasnacker on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 06:48:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "this type"? You mean people who think (0+ / 0-)

              rationally? I was having the same thought about my interlocutors---don't bother arguing with people who don't understand the nature of evidence, or that anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything.

    •  One persons trash being another (0+ / 0-)

      person's treasure, that's a pretty rude statement.

      Dont' want to use any method for health except pills and knives? Fine.

      Don't expect everybody to buy into your deal either. I won't fund big Pharma or the AMA. Profit grubbing Charlatans.

      Hands off my Social Security, John McCain.

      by emmasnacker on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 06:41:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good (5+ / 0-)

    I'm no fan of big pharma, but I know that if there was a universal system here, there is no way I would want my tax dollars going to something as dubious as homeopathy, a medical "treatment" based on the rejection of the germ theory of disease!

    Skeptic's Dictionary: Homeopathy

    •  Not the point (0+ / 0-)

      The fact is that this is a therapy that has been available from the inception of the NHS and which is only now under attack.

      The question therefore is not whether it should be provided but whether it should be withdrawn from those patients already receiving it who presumably find it preferable to conventional drugs.

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:08:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  don't think it's just big pharma (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    ebohlman, Justanothernyer

    the manditory coverage of alternative medicine is also being phased out in switzerland. if people want it they need to buy a supplemental, the same as if people want single hospital rooms, fitness club coverage etc.

    sorry, but i'm all for phasing it out. there's just not sufficient rigourous scientific evidence indicating that homeopathy or many 'alternative' medical practices are effective.

    i think framing this as some evil plot by big pharma is just naive. big pharma has MANY critical positives and i'm just opposed to simplifying the arguments as them against us. big pharma is NOT the US tobacco industry.

    •  What would you give children? (0+ / 0-)

      No drugs have been tested on children to determine if they work in the same way as in adults, whether they cause long term harm in a growing body and what dose is appropriate. For the last, usually a scaling down based on body weight is used.

      Similarly, clinical trials (apart from the obvious treatments) have frequently only been done on young adult males to test toxicity.

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:15:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  wrong, many drugs ARE tested on kids (0+ / 0-)

        MOST that are prescribed for kids, at least in Switzerland. I won't venture to say what can be prescribed for kids in the US.

      •  and likewise have ANY homeopathic remedies been (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer

        tested on kids? most haven't even been tested on lab rats!

        and don't tell me they are by nature safe. many of the natural chemicals in homeopathy are serious compounds. And sadly, many people that advocate homeopathy are utterly dismissive of this fact. Even more sad is the lack of information sought or desired regarding serious complications with combinatorial homeopathy.

        •  Dualistic argument (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          jxg

          You cannot at the same time claim that homeopathic medicines are unsafe because of they are "serious compounds" and ineffective because the degree of dilution means that there is unlikely to be a single molecule of the active ingredient in the dilute that is used on the pills.

          Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

          by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:16:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Because to do so ... (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Lib Dem FoP

        would be seen as unethical, since children by definition cannot consent to clinical trials.

    •  homeopathy and Switzerland (0+ / 0-)

      and while it is being phased out, or well still under discussion to be phased out, from basic coverage which is available by law to ALL people in Switzerland,

      i do want to add that General Practioners and Apothcary typically FIRST suggest non-pharmaceutical remedies to problems not accute. Stretching/exercise/improved diet for overweight problems - never straight to drugs or surgery, meditation/rest/herbal teas etc. for stress and depression rather than straight to the drugs.

      i think a real problem to be addressed regarding 'big pharma' in the US is the availability of advertising and sales-rep pressure on doctors, AND lack of time available for US doctors to take refresher courses and study what new medicines are really appropriate.

  •  what's with the tie in to GM foods? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jxg, ebohlman, Justanothernyer

    now you have REALLY lost credibility in my book. Show me one rigorous scientific study indicating a health threat of ANY GM food? Just ONE!

    this is a knee-jerk, simplification that bundles homeopathy, anti-Pharma, anti-conventional Ag, pro-Organic that is just plain loony.

    •  What GM foods (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      emmasnacker

      Are allowed in Switzerland?

      The point of this diary is that the group behind the campaign against homeopathy is both strongly advocating  in favor of the unfettered use of GM crops and is funded by the large pharmaceuticals and chemical industries. This is despite the very strange characters behind SAS.

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:07:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here. (0+ / 0-)

      It's quite too soon to know health risks. GM is new. It has just the past few years that it has been put into cans and jars and dried grains with no notification to the general public that they are eating things that have never been eaten before, and have not been tested. But they are pushing it on us anyway, because Agri-business profits so handsomely.

      #  Publications on GM food toxicity are scarce. An article in  Science magazine said it all: "Health Risks of Genetically Modified Foods: Many Opinions but Few Data".1 In fact, no peer-reviewed publications of clinical studies on the human health effects of GM food exist. Even animal studies are few and far between. # The preferred approach of the industry has been to use compositional comparisons between GM and non-GM crops. When they are not significantly different the two are regarded as "substantially equivalent", and therefore the GM food crop is regarded as safe as its conventional counterpart. This ensures that GM crops can be patented without animal testing. However, substantial equivalence is an unscientific concept that has never been properly defined and there are no legally binding rules on how to establish it.2

      Hands off my Social Security, John McCain.

      by emmasnacker on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 07:02:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The most obvious problems with GM grains (0+ / 0-)

      are the cross-pollination with grasses that are creating herbicide resistant super-weeds.  It's happening now, in spite of denials by the Monsantos of the world.

      Again, how many commenters on this thread are professionally trained bioscientists/engineers?  I am.

      Again, sign me

      Elmer Ph(u)d

      The hungry judges soon the sentence sign, And wretches hang, that jurymen may dine.

      by magnetics on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 08:26:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    N in Seattle, jxg, Justanothernyer

    Homeopathy deserves no funding. Its quack science.

    Why not waste tax money on astrology and aura feeling next?

    Iä! Iä! Cthulhu Fhtagn!

    by Nerull on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 02:52:29 PM PDT

    •  WELL (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      emmasnacker

      The NIH list the following effects greater than that  from placebos in randomized double blind trials published from 1998 to 2002.

      Trial compared an oral homeopathic treatment to placebo in asthmatic people allergic to house dust. Authors found the homeopathic treatment "no better than placebo." They noted "some differences between the homeopathic immunotherapy and placebo for which we have no explanation."

      Traumeel S, a homeopathic skin cream, may significantly reduce the severity and length of pain and inflammation of the tissues lining the inside of the mouth from chemotherapy in children being treated with bone marrow transplantation.

      Team tested the hypothesis that homeopathy is a placebo by examining effects of an oral homeopathic preparation in patients with perennial allergic rhinitis. They found a "significant objective improvement in nasal airflow" compared with the placebo group. However, both groups reported subjective improvement in "nasal symptoms" (with no statistically significant difference between groups). Authors concluded that the objective evidence supports that "homeopathic dilutions differ from placebo."

      Individualized homeopathic treatments improved digestive problems in children with acute childhood diarrhea. Results are consistent with findings of a previous study.

      For the treatment of hay fever, a homeopathic nasal spray is as efficient and well tolerated as a conventional therapy, cromolyn sodium.

      A subgroup of patients with HIV in the symptomatic phase, receiving treatment, had increased levels of CD4 cells at the end of the trial; the placebo subgroup did not.

      Homeopathic remedies, including arnica, are not effective for muscle soreness following long-distance running.

      The homeopathic treatment vertigoheel, and the standard treatment of betahistine, are equally effective in reducing the frequency, duration, and intensity of vertigo attacks.

      Results from double blind trials only.

      While the theory is contrary to current scientific thinking, these studies appear to show that at least some remedies are more effective than a placebo in double blind trials.

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:47:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The only justification I can see (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    akeitz

    for funding homeopathy at any level at all is that it might serve to placate many of the "worried well" who would otherwise be consuming much more expensive services in order to find out what's "wrong" with them. Even then, however, it shouldn't be funded as the sole treatment for serious disease or as a preventive measure.

    I do like conducting hearings in an actual hearing room -- John Conyers

    by ebohlman on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:08:06 PM PDT

    •  I suggest you look at the pages (0+ / 0-)

      of the Royal London Homeopathic Hospitalwhich offers a range of other complementary medicines as well. They are very clear which conditions do and do not respond to their services however from the Skin Services page:

      Surveys demonstrate that the hospital’s treatment of skin conditions is effective. In a 500-patient survey done in 1997, 68% of patients with skin conditions reported an improvement, and about two thirds had been able to reduce or stop conventional medication since attending the Royal London Homoeopathic Hospital.

      http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/...

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 03:32:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sorry (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    N in Seattle, jxg, akeitz

    homopathy has no scientifc basis; indeed, for homeopathy to work (other than as a placebo) a number of scientific laws would have to be false.

    There is no way a single tax dollar should be wasted on this.  

    •  Question (0+ / 0-)

      When expensive racehorses like the Queen's are treated with homeopathic remedies and recover, how do they generate a placebo effect?

      Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

      by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:12:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  you mean "tax pound", don't you? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      akeitz, Justanothernyer

      But yeah, homeopathy is absolutely contrary to rationality.

      Odds are that there's not a single molecule of whateveritis in a dilute homeopathic elixer (which is supposedly the most efficacious).

      The way to win is not to move to the right wing; the way to win is to move to the right policy. -- Nameless Soldier

      by N in Seattle on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 04:32:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Homeopathy (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      akeitz, denise b, Justanothernyer

      is utter garbage, and it is distressing that a number of Kossacks seem to believe it.  The "remedies" are often diluted to the point where there are no atoms left of the original substance.  Do those who support it really want to throw out the theory of atoms, the germ theory of disease, and virtually every prinicple of modern science?

      Lib Dem FoP:  Racehorses often get sick and recover on their own.  So do people.  

      Did you hear about the homeopath who drank a glass of pure water and died of an overdose?

      •  Well (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        emmasnacker

        I note your statement

        Racehorses often get sick and recover on their own.  So do people.

        Well homeopathic vets treat the same range of animals as vets who only use pharmaceutical medicine. No doubt they, like people recover on their own too. Which argues against the worth of conventional medicines as presumably the animal would have recovered on its own too.

        Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

        by Lib Dem FoP on Sun Sep 30, 2007 at 05:10:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hold on, there is a logical fallacy here (0+ / 0-)

          Apologies for the late entry into this thread.
           
          I have heard this argument many times:  that it can't be a placebo effect if it works on (non-human) animals, who are unaware of the medicine.
           
          But wait a minute, who judges if the animal is better?  Humans do.  You give your cat a homeopathic remedy and the next week you're sure he's better.  That's the placebo effect, because you are the one judging the cat's health.  It doesn't matter if the cat is unaware.
           
          As for "homeopathic vets," that's even more dubious, because they totally believe in the remedies they are applying.  So yeah, I'm sure that "homeopathic vets" really see the stuff working.  
           

          Which argues against the worth of conventional medicines as presumably the animal would have recovered on its own too.

          This is a silly argument.  Conventional medicines can cure things you wouldn't recover from.  Like a severe ear infection.  They can also measurably reduce symptoms of temporary illness.  Measurably meaning that you can actually observe the improvement in a double-blind experiment that removes the placebo effect.
             
          The crucial difference is that with homeopathy, the only diseases you recover from are the ones you were recovering from anyway.  It's a bit like the Monty Python sketch with the man who made a career out of hypnotizing bricks.  You throw the brick, he hypnotizes it, it lands on the ground and stops moving.  That hypnotist is homeopathy:  he's sure he helped it happen.

          In any case, the solution to the UK Health Service problem is perfectly simple.  The people who manufacture and sell homeopathic remedies can simply demonstrate that the medicine actually works in a double-blind controlled experiment.  That is all they have to do.  No doubt neutraceutical companies have sufficient financial interest in their product to actually have it tested, so I don't see what is holding them back---aside from the very strong suspicion that this stuff never actually worked, and is a scam perpetrated on the public and taxpayer.

    •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

      You can pay for magic water on your own dime.  

      Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be persecuted by an unkind establishment, you must also be right. - Robert Park

      by Soberish on Tue Oct 02, 2007 at 11:44:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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