Update 2. Mexican Flood

As many of you know, my village suffered a horrific disaster on Monday morning.  I have posted diaries here.  Many of the families have lost all their belongings and there have been deaths.  There are photos that show the devastation in the diaries. I have tried to link the diaries but just cannot do it tonight.  There are photos in the diary written on the sixth.  If someone can link to my other diaries for me, I would appreciate it.  I have shut down mentally today.

I went into town this morning and I realized that I just need to stay away today.  It is just so sad.  They are still bailing muddy water from their houses and trucks are picking up their belongings.

I think the thing that bothers me the most is that so many of the gringo's just don't seem to care or want to help out.  It is very discouraging that they have that attitude.

As many of you have asked, I have set up a paypal account.  I went around today asking questions.  I need to know who needs help  immediately.  The government has provided cots for those who have no beds, and they are passing out food.  If we get some contributions, I will coordinate with Ernesto the local Doctor since he knows where the need is the greatest.  We talked a bit yesterday and he said he knew of many folks who had lost everything they owned.  I didn't mention that we were trying to raise some funds.  I was asking about circumstances today and Julia, who has a small shrimp restarant said she had water in her house but she could sleep there.  Then she asked if I had a place to stay.  What generosity in the face of such trouble. She offered up her place to me.

The paypal account is [e-mail].  When we help someone, my friend will take photos and we will get them posted for you.

Thanks to all of you for your caring.  You are the best people on earth.  Love you all!

•  Thanks for setting this up.

  Any place besides paypal?  An address?

  by murrayewv on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:22:17 PM PDT

  •  I do have an adress

    Jeannie Young {my friend}  Apartado postal 40
    Barra de Navidad
    Z.C. 48987
    Jalisco, Mexico.

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:26:49 PM PDT

    •  Probably people shouldn't send

      money or checks through the Mexican mail, though, plus US checks take a long time to clear. Possibly wire money via Western Union?

      by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:34:52 PM PDT

      •  We

        were just saying that.  It would never get here.

        by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:43:34 PM PDT

        •  glad you did that

          Give a name for western union here, Mango.

          It probably is 100% unrelated, but my credit card number was stolen the day the virus broke out on DKos.  Someone charged airline flights to me, and yet the bank won't help me find out who.  I don't know what info they got on me - merely that card number, or????

          Anyway I strongly urge Western Union.  We have experience sending to Africa that way, with no disappearance ever.

          by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:40:55 PM PDT

          •  Its the

            western union in San Patricio Melaque, Jalisco.  Mariachi Mama has provided a link here in the diary.

            by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:43:27 PM PDT

    •  Can items of clothing, bedding, etc. be

      sent to that address?  Or would that create too much of a problem?

      by FoundingFatherDAR on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:03:12 PM PDT

      •  I would

        think so.  It needs to be marked on the outside that it is a gift.

        by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:09:05 PM PDT

        •  You might be charged

          a whopping duty.  Over here in Chapala they pretty much have license for extortion on imported goods.  

          On the other hand, clothes are plentiful in the area, some quite reasonable in Chapala.  Do you think cash is preferable to shipping, Mango?  

          by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:42:50 PM PDT

          •  You know what

            I really don't know.  I know they do charge duty.  I think its something new.

            by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:14:11 PM PDT

      •  Don't send supplies

        Money spent locally helps the locals out.  Sending supplies is wasteful - and slow.

        by willb48 on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:19:13 PM PDT

        •  But if the locals are buried under water,

          wouldn't their goods (to sell) be ruined as well?

          by FoundingFatherDAR on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:36:52 PM PDT

          •  Actually it

            affected only the center of town and part of the west end.  I am staying about 6 blocks from my house and am dry.

            by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:39:05 PM PDT

    •  My mother lives down

      in Todos Santos, Baja Sur and they got slammed too. Thankfully they live on a hill top so they were all right.

      by Mike S on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:09:51 PM PDT

•  Que Dios Te Bendiga, Mango!!!

  Un abrazo y oraciones todos los dias....

  by serrano on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:22:20 PM PDT

•  Previous update diary

  Update on a horrible flood in Mexico

  Some of Mango's photos

  by RainyDay on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:25:41 PM PDT

  •  First flood diary

    I had a taste of Katrina today

    by RainyDay on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:27:38 PM PDT

    •  Thanks so much

      Rainy day.  I am not too good with the technical stuff.

      by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:28:37 PM PDT

  •  WHOA

    ((((((((Mango))))))))))

    Having seen this photo series for the first time (I caught one diary) this blows my mind (we stayed in Melaque many times last winter).  Particularly as to how extreme the flood must have been at first, before these shots were taken, given that the featured streets are a few blocks from the bay.  It is such a catastrophic drainage failure which is hard to understand given the engineering potential for prompt drainage.

    How did they even do this!  The zocalo!  I think in most locales this would cost the highway engineers their licenses whose bridge design compromised the river.  Hope so.

    by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:56:15 PM PDT

    •  Yes,

      I would imagine their are some rolling heads going on.  I live right behind the jardin.

      by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:15:51 PM PDT

    •  The river

      jumped the bank on the road to PV.  They diverted the river flow.  The water rose 4 feet within 15 minutes.  And it will happen again if the river rises.  That is what is so scary.  My friends all think that I should move to a safer area.  I loved my house!
      Somewhere in the back of my mind, I can imagine men in the river with buckets next time the river rises.   Sort of snark.

      by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:43:17 PM PDT

      •  drat and blast, Mango

        we drove all the coast from Melaque (down the libramente from Chapala), south to Manzanillo and halfway down the coast of Michoacan.

        After a lengthy exchange with PatriciaVA about Mexican economics, we agreed that the intense road/infrastructure development/boom seems to be happening in a swath peripheral to the NAFTA corridor (Lazaro Cardenas/Manzanillo north to Texas).  

        Conversely we drove out to Yucatan, which unlike your region involved mostly old, frayed highways once we were east of Pueblo - wide-eyed white-knuckled two-man lookouts for potholes for hundreds of miles.  Not much fresh construction that we saw and we would never drive it again.  

        In our several trips it blew our minds, all the highway construction in your vicinity and southwards... I don't know if you've gotten down to Manzanillo in the past year but there are highly engineered pedestrian walkways over the new highway - it seems no expense is spared.  Overengineered roads lead down to Michoacan beaches to nothing warranting such a megolith of a roadway (perhaps 80 feet wide!) to tiny fishing villages with no tourist traffic.  It made no sense.  All the way down the northern coast of Michoacan it seemed we were dodging sand/gravel trucks every few minutes on their way to build yet another highway to nowhere.  Unreal, the amount of infrastructure and road construction.

        What this has me wondering, given PatriciaVA's inability to reconcile the expense of all this development (including the blasted bridge that caused this is... drumroll... where's the money coming from?  Could it be China, who stand to benefit the most from the NAFTA corridor?  Was your new local bridge engineered at a discount in Beijing?  

        Because this is just too idiotic for words.  US people would drool over the quality of construction we saw along that part of the coast.  They are sparing no expense... except drainage engineering.  It leaves me wondering if a qualified engineer was even on site.  One-size-fits-all bridges?

        by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 05:09:34 PM PDT

        •  I'm very interested in this, SM

          I didn't see any construction like this in Oaxaca and I'm not seeing it here in Baja, either.

          by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 06:28:17 PM PDT

          •  Did you see

            the stretch in They'reReal's Mexican trucking diary where PatriciaVA and I had an extremely lengthy exchange about this?  Because she posted all kinds of official poverty statistics, yet in our travels of said areas and others northward we have seen what is nothing less than a construction boom (btw that neither means I deny there exists gross poverty, nor that I am pro-NAFTA!!! as some misunderstood).  Hubby and I have wondered ourselves silly about the intense construction in select areas.  People in the area are of course familiar with what we see.  Go figure.  

            But it occurred to us that China is getting sick of recycling its US IOUs into funny money securities such as hedge funds...  maybe they're "investing in Mexico?"  The money is coming from somewhere.  Could be China, rich in iron and cement, are supplying a lot of those construction materials (steel/iron, as you may be aware, is extremely expensive in Mexico, and with the amount of those materials employed in highway construction, this is extremely costly development)?  We don't know, it's just a guess.  

            Mexico as far as we know has not begun taxing its wealthy to any great extent, nor is there anything to get from the poor.  We have heard 85% of Mexico's economy is related to US consumption/US whatever (does that sound correct?) so possibly Mexico likewise trades US T-Notes to China...  we can't figure it out.  The only big clue is the emergence of the NAFTA corridor and its periphery, which would explain the extreme development of the northern coast of Michoacan (between the two key ports of Lazaro Cardenas and Manzanillo).

            Sure would appreciate your thoughts.  Who knows, Mexico doesn't like to explain itself too much.

            by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 06:58:38 PM PDT

            •  Well

              there is something interesting, but, CEMEX is the largest cement company in the world. Are the states with the construction PAN states? What party holds Jalisco, Guanjuato, etc?

              Don't underestimate political paybacks, some politicians cousin with a construction company in a PAN state is getting kick backs? No es possible!

              by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 07:36:33 PM PDT

              •  now I'm scratching my head...

                If you follow the approximate swath of the NAFTA corridor, that's exactly where we've seen the extremely intensive construction.

                I'm finally getting to where I can read the newspaper rather effectively, but not swift enough to parse all the politics yet.  Are you able to get a handle on those biases and clue me in?

                Mainly it's all the iron that makes me wonder about the price thing.  Not cheap here, at least not for consumers on our level.

                by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 08:18:56 PM PDT

                •  I'm going to lose

                  my computer for a few days, but don't lose that thought.

                  Just a Mexican political thought, but why was Teacher's Union jefa, EE Gordillo walking on the right hand of Calderon at the so called informe?  Trying to understand politics in Mexico is like going down the rabbit hole.

                  by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 08:49:01 PM PDT

                  •  I lament

                    my ignorance of this turn... can you give me a link, por favor?  I haven't really preened through those politics so far... been up to my nostrils in the US national debt issue, but I want to learn.  Please fill me in.

                    How come you lose your puter?  

                    by stonemason on Sun Sep 09, 2007 at 03:11:22 AM PDT

            •  Why China buys IOUs

              Hi stonemason's wife....

              (i) China buys our IOUS, in part, due to political expediency.  In order to maintain an artificially low F/X rate, China must vacuum all the dollars that come in.  Otherwise, the Chinese currency would appreciate against the dollar, and its exporters would see a decrease in sales to the US.  If that were to occur, fewer jobs would be created, and the Chinese govt. does not want millions of its citizens clamoring for jobs.

              Now, what to do with those dollars?  Recently, they bought a US$ 3B stake in Blackstone (Private Equity Group), but a significant amount of the dollars end up invested in our Treasuries.  They realize that this helps keep our LT interest rates low, which in turn enables us to buy more of their goods.

              Eventually, once they have achieved a critical mass of Middle-Class consumers, they will no longer need us, as much.  When will this occur?  I'd say, within two years.

              (ii) About 85% of Mexican exports go the US.  South American countries have done a much better job of diversifying its export base.  Mexico has not.  

              (iii) Mexico, and all of Latin America, must do a MUCH better job of exporting value-added products.  For this, they need to invest in education.  

              Also, Asian countries, especially China, have always insisted on technology transfer as a condition for US/European multinationals to set up shop/sell in their countries.  Mexico has not.  Brazil and Argentina have, but not enough.

              by PatriciaVa on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 07:51:12 PM PDT

              •  thanks PatriciaVA

                Great information, thank you.

                Quite aware of Blackstone and much more... particularly that our kleptocracy are selling US souls, bricks, mortar and shadows all to our creditors to inflate the bubbles...  but where's the money coming from to do all the NAFTA corridor construction?  Is it the Mexican government?  

                I understand that you haven't personally seen the area between the twin NAFTA ports... but someone's spending a fantastic amount on construction.  It is so overdone that I have doubts it is solely Mexican-financed unless Carlos Slim has become an understudy to FDR!

                by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 08:13:09 PM PDT

•  First diary.

  Taste of Katrina--Monday

  Hang in there, mango.  

  by Crashing Vor on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:27:01 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Crashing Vor

    Boy, you guys are quick.  I spent a couple of hours trying to link.

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:29:39 PM PDT

•  Bless you Mango,

  Peace.

  by bonesy on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:31:36 PM PDT

•  Thanks

  I think its just looking at a sea of mud since Monday.    Its just so hard to imagine thing back to normal again.

  by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:33:53 PM PDT

•  Earthquake?

  There was an earthquake, did you feel it?

  The quake, with a preliminary magnitude of 4.9, happened at 10:42 p.m. local time and was centered offshore 50 miles west of Manzanillo, a city on the coast of the state of Colima, the U.S. Geological Survey reported. It struck about 6 miles beneath the ocean floor.

  Mexican officials measured the preliminary magnitude at 5.2. It was felt as far north as the Pacific resort city of Puerto Vallarta, about 170 miles north of Manzanillo.

  "It was felt strongly, but fortunately there is no damage, just a bit of alarm in the community," said Nicolas Mendoza, an official with the civil protection department for the state of Jalisco, where Puerto Vallarta is located.

  by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:37:10 PM PDT

  •  I didn't feel

    it but I guess I was the only one.

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:38:32 PM PDT

    •  I must have

      been asleep.

      by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:39:25 PM PDT

  •  I am so

    happy to hear that you are up and running again.  I was really worried.  How is the left handed typing going?

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:48:49 PM PDT

    •  Slow

      but the worst thing is I have a lot of work here in the house that isn't getting done. I think I will have to hire someone to come in and clean my floors. It'spretty hard to mop with one hand.  

      by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:58:55 PM PDT

      •  And Cabo's okay?

        I been a little worried about everyone who got drenched.

        by Pacific John on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:43:17 PM PDT

        •  We are fine here

          Still some people from the very poor areas in shelters, but really very little damage.  

          by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:53:13 PM PDT

          •  here in Chapala

            we are talking about renaming our street to "Rio San Jose."  Evidently they paved over a seasonal stream which now emerges in front of our place.  The children, of course, sustain unabated delight with their new water park.

            by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:03:24 PM PDT

            •  You guys need to start MexiKos

              It even rhymes correctly!

              by Pacific John on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:05:43 PM PDT

              •  someone did

                have a "mexikos" handle or something close to that.

                by stonemason on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:12:05 PM PDT

•  I'm in! Hey Mango, nice to hear

  from you, once again.  So damn sorry it is under these circumstances, but I was glad to find a link to a paypal account, and I am sending a few bucks your way, not enough, but I do know every dime helps.

  Stay strong, keep us updated, and know we care, not just about you, but about the people of your community.  

  Love to you, big hugs, and may the end result be a stronger and a healthier bond of family and of friendship.

  panicbean

  by panicbean on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:56:38 PM PDT

  •  Panicbean

    thanks so much.  It will be appreciated.
    Yesterday, I had an errand and Jean waited in the car.  She said an old man came to her and said that he was hungry.  She gave him about ten dollars.  He kissed the money, made the sign of the cross and kissed her hand.

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 03:00:23 PM PDT

•  Thanks for the update Mango

  Your own generosity and willingness to provide aid may serve to shame some of the other "gringos" into doing the same; you are setting a valuable example.

  I will check into wiring money.  If anyone knows how to do this, please give me a few pointers.  I've actually never done it.

  I hope you are well and strong and that your own house is now habitable.  Somehow, that doesn't seem likely, but hopefully progress is being made.  Take care of yourself.

  by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 12:57:21 PM PDT

  •  No, I am homeless

    things are not going well in that department.  I am better off than most.  I will be staying with my friend, Jean for about a month.  My place is bad and I may have to move.  That is not what is important.  I am dry and clean!

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:01:14 PM PDT

    •  Oh, I am sorry to hear about your home.

      For some reason I thought you were going to be able to clean your home up and move back in.  Is this going to be possible in the future?

      by panicbean on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:02:40 PM PDT

      •  I really

        don't know.  The pump has been ruined so I haven't had any water for two days.  The smell is bad, and right now its hard to imagine it ever being like it was.  It is hard to find help because we are all in the same boat so to speak.  There is nothing that I can do until I get water again.  I am giving the chickens bottled water.  

        by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:06:20 PM PDT

        •  Just take it a day at a time

          you've got a whole crew here to give you all the mental support you'll need.

          I'm thinking of you, and all your neighbors.

          by xyz on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:09:29 PM PDT

          •  That has

            been what I've been doing.  Today, it just all fell apart for me.  No tears yet just sadness.

            by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:11:14 PM PDT

            •  {{big hug}}

              by xyz on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:41:20 PM PDT

            •  {{{HUGS}}}

              We're thinking of you hon.

              by PatsBard on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:20:41 PM PDT

            •  And another big {{{{{HUG}}}}}

              by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:23:37 PM PDT

              •  Thanks

                my computer just started working!  It got damp and I couldn't use it, so Jean and I have been sharing hers.  Now I am really excited.  I guess it needed a couple of days to dry out!  Yippee!

                by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:27:08 PM PDT

            •  Time

              It will take years to get over this, as people from NOLA can tell you.  If any of us experienced flood people can be of assistance, please let us know.  I have located a new green mold product called Mold Control that encapsulate the mold to prevent growth.  

              by chigh on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 08:16:09 PM PDT

        •  "Find Help"

          NOLA still has many hispanic workers in the area helping out.  This is so strange that you guys need help, while we continue to receive the hard work of the of the workers.  Many have decided to stay and seem to be fitting in with our family, food, music culture.

          by chigh on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 08:13:53 PM PDT

  •  Very easy

    http://www.westernunion.com/...

    You can even do it completely on line. Just email mango with the number they give you and be sure that it is sent with her name spelled correctly.

    Looks like the closest place to send it to is Manzanillo, I'm surprised that there isn't somewhere in Barra de Navidad.

    http://locator.westernunion.com/...

    by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:11:04 PM PDT

    •  We have one

      here in Melaque.  We pay our phone bills there and it was open yesterday.  It is San Patricio, Melaque.

      by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:12:49 PM PDT

      •  Mango, I just got a message from Paypal

        letting me know that the recipient has not initiated receipt, so there may be one more step you guys need to make regarding that.  

        I have no idea how it works on the recieving end, this is just an FYI for you, in case there was a step left out in your setup of the account.

        panicbean

        by panicbean on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:20:23 PM PDT

        •  Thanks

          I did receive a message that I had funds.  Let me check.  Thanks so much.

          by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:21:55 PM PDT

        •  Ok

          I accepted it.  Thanks again.

          by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:24:58 PM PDT

          •  There's one from me too, mango

            Accept it already.  {{{{mango}}}}  

            by escapee on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:46:51 PM PDT

            •  Me, three

              Hugs to you!!!

              by lulu57 on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:57:55 PM PDT

              •  Thanks Lulu nt

                by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:18:50 PM PDT

            •  Yes

              thanks so much.  Things are moving pretty fast now.  

              by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:18:17 PM PDT

            •  Done,

              thanks so much escapee.

              by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:19:27 PM PDT

              •  You're welcome, honey

                I wish I was a civil engineer or something useful.  I'd be down there so fast!

                by escapee on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:43:18 PM PDT

                •  I wish you were

                  too.  We are all terrified that it will happen again.  September is the heavy rain month.

                  by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:44:40 PM PDT

      •  Mango

        I will need to obtain the exact spelling of your real name.  Can I reach you through the e-mail you have listed on your page?  Or do you have a different one right now?

        by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:23:49 PM PDT

        •  Ok

          it is Sheila Mae Oxford

          by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:25:52 PM PDT

          •  Thanks

            I will send something out today.  Hang in there.  I'm sorry to hear about your homeless state, but glad that you have a friend genorous enough to take you in for a month.  Looks like it's going to be a long haul.  

            by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:27:51 PM PDT

            •  I found

              out that I am pretty darn tough.  I don't appear that way.

              by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:29:28 PM PDT

              •  Are you sure?

                I've always seen that side of you in your voice here.  Not mean tough, but "when the going gets rough" tough.

                by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:59:48 PM PDT

                •  Yes

                  everyone thought that I would last down here for about six months.  I showed them.

                  by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:29:04 PM PDT

        •  You can email

          me at [e-mail].  I hardly look at the other one.

          by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:27:17 PM PDT

          •  Great

            I'll do that.

            by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:28:55 PM PDT

    •  Thanks, that couldn't be easier

      I will take care of it today.  

      by vigilant meerkat on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:20:04 PM PDT

  •  Thanks a lot

    Jean and I are not telling them.  They are selfish folks who would figure I was scamming or something nefarious.  This is between us and the Mexicans.

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:54:19 PM PDT

•  I will be back

  in a bit.  We do have some more photos to load.

  by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 01:47:04 PM PDT

•  Excellent diary

  by langerdang on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:29:55 PM PDT

  •  Thanks

    It comes right off the top of my head.  I wish I could share some of the images that I have seen but it is too hard.
    We heard that 2 small children drowned, and 2 soldiers lost their lives while in bed unable to escape.  There will be more to come.
    The military is going door to door to check on people.  I think of a beggar that I know who is in a wheelchair.  There is no way he could have made it out if he was in the area.

    by mango on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 02:49:12 PM PDT

•  Something that people can do

  to help and have fun is to consider vacationing in the area. Not now of course, but this winter when it's cold up there and warm down here. I am quite sure that Melaque/Barra de Navidad will be ready to recieve guests by December, and they need your money.
  I haven't been to that particular part of the coast, but it sounds lovely.

  by mariachi mama on Sat Sep 08, 2007 at 06:37:26 PM PDT