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If you've been hanging around this website as long as I have, first off, congratulations for sticking around this long.

If you can remember a time when this website was the go-to place for insightful news and thoughtful commentary from a well-informed liberal perspective, then I'd bet you're feeling as disappointed as I am. By now, you've probably been called a race-baiter, a woman-hater, and everything else in-between. Are you fucking sick of it yet? I know I am.

This community was once a lighthouse of reason and common sense, and it can be that again. So, rather than write up some pathetic GBCW diary, I'm setting myself the ambitious goal of trying to steer the conversation in this community back toward the high ground of rational, informed discussion for which it was originally known.

First, however, we must clear up some bullshit. In order for us to do that together, you must follow me below the fold.

You're still here? Great. Now, let's get to work.


The basis for this scurrilous slander against the former President began with the following remark from Bill Clinton:

"Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

This single comment sparked literally hundreds of diaries and comments, all accusing "the first black President" of denigrating Dr. King's dream and being a closet bigot.

Here is the full quote, in context.

See? Wasn't that easy? All you had to do was look at the fucking context and you could see that Bill was referring not to Obama's campaign, his chances to win, or Dr. King's Dream, but to his position on the Iraq War. For more on this topic, please see this diary.

On Daily Kos, you are expected to think before speaking, and check your facts before writing. That's not a site rule, it's just basic fucking sense. If you published anything on Daily Kos regarding Bill Clinton's racism before checking the context of his remarks, you are personally responsible for the diminishing quality of discourse on this website.


Fresh on the heels of the Bill Clinton "fairy tale" bullshit comes this boneheaded comment from Andrew Cuomo.

"You can't shuck and jive at a press conference, you can't just put off reporters, because you have real people looking at you saying answer the question, you know, and all those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room."

Whether or not you think Andrew Cuomo is a racist, the term "shuck and jive" is certainly racially charged. We can all agree on that, right? (If you don't, then please read this diary.)

So, the question becomes, 'Does that comment reflect poorly on the Clinton campaign?' Um, hell no! Cuomo is the Attorney General for New York state, and he has no connection whatsoever with the Clinton campaign, official or unofficial. In the succinct words of Kossack TooFolkGR:

Andrew Cuomo is totally fucked if he thinks he's getting the Democratic Presidential nomination now.

Andrew Cuomo is not a spokesman for Hillary Clinton. It takes about five minutes on Google to establish this fact. It takes eight keystrokes to type "dailykos" into your browser, it only takes six to type "google." Believe it or not, if you commit yourself to doing a minimum amount of research before you react to something, you will actually save yourself (and the rest of us) a considerable amount of time and energy.

If you jumped to the conclusion that Cuomo was speaking on behalf of the Clinton campaign, listen up: before you engage in some knee-jerk shit-talking, first you need to let your fingers do the walking.


DHinMI skewers this line of theorizing here, so I don't have much to add. However, I will point out that any theory which can be so easily dispelled with a statement like this:

New Hampshire has no touchscreen voting.

... has no place on Daily Kos to begin with.

The rule around here is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As much as I respect the work of Brad Friedman, a copy and paste from his blog just doesn't cut the muster. Did you do any research of your own? Did you verify your facts with independent sources? If not, then what the fuck are you doing bringing half-finished work to Daily Kos? We don't want that shit here.


This is a tough one for me personally, because (Oh, shit!) I happen to be an Edwards supporter. I believe in my heart and soul that John Edwards would make the best president, and I came to that conclusion on the basis of his thoughtful and well-articulated positions on the issues. That does not mean that I can't respect and appreciate the reasons others have for supporting the candidate of their choice.

I agree with those who say that the media is not giving John Edwards a fair shake. However, it does not automatically follow that I want to see a diary on why John Edwards is the bestest candidate ever every fucking time I look at the Recommended List. That's not what the Rec List is for, and in case no one has noticed, all of those Recommended Diaries haven't moved him one point in the polls.

The purpose of this website is to elect good Democrats. Notice that little "s" at the end of the word "Democrat." If and when John Edwards wins the nomination, I don't expect to hear the phrase "avalanche of Recommended Diaries on Daily Kos" in his victory speech. TomP does an excellent job of holding up the flag for the John Edwards supporters on Daily Kos, and I am perfectly content to let him speak for me.

:: ::

I could go on and on and on and on with this, but I think four examples is enough for now. The basic point I am trying to make with this diary is that when you don't do your homework, you hurt the community. People are leaving this website in droves. If you are in the habit of reacting to something before you have a grasp on the complete context of the subject, then you are part of the problem.

Daily Kos is not and should not become a dumping ground for partisan hackery. Are we partisan? Yes, and unashamedly so. But when we jump to conclusions, fail to do our research, and fly off the handle, we only hurt each other and our community.

Yes, this is primary season. Yes, we are divided over who we think should be the nominee. Yes, there is going to be some friction. But for the love of Jesus and a pony, we have spent far too much damn time attacking each other this year. Edwards opponents are not elitist corporate lackeys, Obama opponents are not racist geriatrics stuck in the past, and Hillary opponents are not misogynist tools of the patriarchy. We have three of the best candidates for president in a generation, and by God, one of them is going to fucking win.

In closing, let me articulate the end-all, be-all proposition of ultimate bullshit on Daily Kos, from which all other bullshit on this website flows:


Come on, people. We can do better than this.

Originally posted to autoegocrat on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 11:54 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The left is splintering on racial lines (11+ / 0-)

    and Daily Kos unfortunately appears to be the central clearinghouse/think tank for this self-destructive folly.

    Of course I don't have to tell you that the only entity that benefits from a split left is the right.

    •  kos is central think tank for self destruction! (5+ / 0-)

      Maybe Kos should go dark for a couple of days and let everyone cool out.
      The curtain has been pulled away, we are seeing how ugly politics can be on our side of the aisle. By supposed progressives! We think our intelligence and knowledge and compassion insulate us from what lies beneath. Nuh-uh. This is about who gets to keep all the marbles. We are fiercely united in opposition, terribly divided by our passions as we attempt to move forward.

      I'll support any of the three for election, but like Edwards the best.

      "I believe we were put on earth to fart around" - Vonnegut

      by the fan man on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:27:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm an Edwards supporter... (17+ / 0-)

    ...who likes Obama and Clinton, too.  Too many people around here feel like the only way they can lift their candidate up is by tearing the others down.  To me, that suggests a weakness in their arguments.

    "Fascism should rather be called corporatism, as it is the merging of government and corporate power." --Benito Mussolini

    by revelwoodie on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:03:44 PM PST

  •  Well, I don't know... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    There's a lot riding on this election.  I think this is the most important election since 1932.  People care what happens in November, and most of us have a lot invested (literally: we've been giving money to candidates) in what happens.
    A lot of us are angry, for many reasons.  A lot of us Edwards backers are angry that he's been shut out of the coverage.  By any reckoning, he should be taken as seriously as Obama or Clinton.  He was the 2004 vice presidential candidate and he got 30% in Iowa this year, while being widely outspent.
    A lot of us are frustrated and angered by Clinton's unwillingness to bend on big things and Obama's calling out unions and his seeming belief that we can just sit down and work out all our differences.
    This is a place where people who care what happens can come to spout off and try to convince others.  Sure we're going to intemperate at times; at times we're even--somebody cover David Broder's eyes so he doesn't have to read this--vituperative!
    Things being what they are, if we aren't intemperate and vituperative, then we haven't been watching what's happened for 7 years, or we don't care.
    Well, we have and we do.  So we're going to be rude and nasty a t times.  Lord knows, I've read a bunch of stuff I thought was out of line.  But we Edwards people have been out of line, too, sometimes.
    It's all right.
    Let's have at it.

    ÞÞÞ Ðe Drummondtown Non-Sequitorial Society 300þ Anniversary: 1834-2007 ÞÞÞ

    by Mumphrey on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:05:50 PM PST

  •  love the graphic! (8+ / 0-)

    I don't agree with everything you say above, but I do agree with the overall spirit of your diary: let's try to be civil to each other and do a little research before we make serious claims or allegations about a candidate.  I've tried to write off a lot of the crap going on right now as just part of the messy process of democracy in the online world, although I'm certainly as fed up as you seem to be with the primary wars.  I look forward to the day when we can all unite against the real enemies and put a Dem in the White House and more Dems in Congress.

  •  Unfortunately (7+ / 0-)

    we still have people like slim, claiming the fairy tale thing was racially motivated, when the video CLEARLY show's what's it's about.  Stop the B.S!

  •  Whether it was racist or not (4+ / 0-)

    that performance from Bill was unseemly, whining and embarrassing. He demeaned himself by offering up cooked up quotes, distortions and talking point campaign lies.

    Truly pathetic.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:10:59 PM PST

    •  Hillary is running a negative campaign. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      So really, the fact that he's doing it too isn't shocking.  In her speeches she repeatedly hints that Obama has no plans.  She knows this isn't true-- as anyone with an internet connection can go and read exceptionally detailed descriptions of his plans.  But she knows most people won't bother, and that the talking heads certainly won't bother.

      But that doesn't stop people even here, who are obviously savy internet users who know how to find information if they want to, from repeating that claim.

    •  "cooked up quotes"? Please. He used Obama's (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cpresley, santh

      words. You don't like that, fine, but the reason Clinton can get traction with this is because of Obama's inconsistency on the war.

      •  Truncated (0+ / 0-)

        Taken out of context.

        Dumbed down.

        I doubt you're thrilled when it's done to Hillary.

        Hm... there's that strange soporific feeling again...

        Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

        by bumblebums on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 01:01:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, in fact, Obama said two distinct things: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cpresley, santh

          he said he did not know how he would have voted, had he been in the Senate; he also said that he didn't think the case for war had been made, from his vantage point.
          I dont' really think Clinton is taking undue license in focusing on the first point, because the second doesn't actually contradict it; moreover, we can see from Obama's record in the Senate that his anti-war fervor has definite limits.

  •  And there's plenty more bullshit... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    autoegocrat, moiv, KenBee

    ...where that comes from. Just off the top of my head:

    "Barack Obama is dirty because of a real estate deal."

    Which has been investigated up and down, back and forth, and no wrongdoing found.

    "Barack Obama's real estate deal with a shady character shows he has bad judgement."

    As opposed to, say, Whitewater, which was a deal with shady characters on which the Clintons actually lost money.

    "Ron Paul is a racist, because racists support him."

    Okay, this is just stupid, for the exact same reason that Bill O'Reilly's attacks on DailyKos are stupid. It's guilt by associations over which the campaign has no reasonable control.

    "Ron Paul is a racist because of his newsletter."

    This is a tougher one. Yes, he should have known what was written in that newsletter. Yes, the excuse that he didn't know what was written in that letter is incredibly lame. The way to prove them wrong is to have PDFs of the entire newsletter. But -- what we have is partial and selective scans. No listing of the author, issue number, addresses, etc.

    "(Insert front-runner here) has a health care plan that will cover all Americans."

    The fact is, unless we require insurers to pay for all treatments that are certified by a patient's physician, under penalty of law, as medically necessary, all the front runner's plans are just subsidies for insurance companies. This criticism applies equally to the Clinton plan, the Obama plan, and the Edwards plan.

    Again, this is just a sampling. There's a LOT more where this came from.

  •  Right On! What is the matter with people. When (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ricochet, DMiller, cpresley, gloryous1

    Trent Lott makes a comment that could be racist his history supports that conclusion. The opposite is true for Bill. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

    And the Diebold thing. It is hard to believe so many people got worked up about nothing.

    I wish a fraction of that energy was devoted to stories about torture, Guantanamo, the war, tax policy, the First, fifth and Fourth Amendment abuses.

    If people want to get worked up about candidates, they should focus their energies on the Republicans. One can never shine enough sunshine on that pathetic crew, one of whom could get elected if we don't direct our energies in the right direction.

  •  It's Horrible To Watch (7+ / 0-)

    I used to love this site. I can scan but barely stand to read what's written here anymore except for the people I have been reading for years. I keep telling myself it's just the political bull shit that is normal but this is just too much.

    I'm with Gloria Steinem, I think the article she wrote in the New York Times was right on. It's time to give a woman the right to run this country. Any women that do not recognize this fact are biting their own backs.

    I realize I am a sitting duck with this so be it. We need someone that will know where the dead bodies lie and can find them fast. As Gloria said it will take two terms of Hillary and two of Obama to just clean up the stinking mess that the Bush White-washedhouse has left us.

    Come on people, get with the program and GET REAL!

  •  As I have written here several times (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DMiller, Gary Norton, dannyinla, cpresley

    I have stayed out of the primary wars and certain diaries. We used to be the people that loved and had "Facts" on our side, recently it seems the majority around here have thrown that out the window. I believe once we have our nominee we will kick in to high gear to debunk all the bullshit that is put out by the right wing smear machine towards our candidate. Until then I have decided to waft. Eating our own is so unbecoming and I hope things and people settle down soon.

    John McCain has magical shoes and a lucky feather, rock and penny. nut job

    by Chamonix on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:31:32 PM PST

  •  each point well made and indisputable (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    autoegocrat, Gary Norton

    (Just for context for the nastiness that may follow:  I am an Edwards supporter, leaning to voting for Obama on 2/5)

    On the Cuomo issue, let's not start holding candidates responsible for the idiotic things their supporters may say, even those who are complete and total jackasses(this is not his father's Cuomo, if you know what I mean).

    and on the subject of Cuomo, it has been noted that

    a) he should be suspended or,

    b) he should be fired and,

    c) nobody should be allowed to listen to anything he has to say because I find his comments repellent

    woops:  I take it back.  He's not a radio talk show host.  He's an Attorney General.  Sorry.  No big deal.  I take it all back.  

    "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"

    by Barth on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:32:27 PM PST

  •  Clinton Surrogates or the Clinton Machine (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gary Norton

    hmm...seems that there are alot of hit jobs on Obama and then they either get fired or run and hide..the surrogates like Bill and Andrew give Hill..plausible is this what we can look forward to over then next however many years..??  I hope not..that is why I am not for Hillary...I don't like her machine...I am tired of machines..give us a break from these power hungry people...

  •  You must be a wonderful spouse (0+ / 0-)

    Being as loyal as you are to the Clintons. I don't see Hillary or Bill as Racist, but I would still have to hold my nose to vote for Hillary. She is (figuratively) sleeping with the enemy (not Bill, rather with Murdoch and countless other special interests). The crap on KOS reminds me more and more of sports fans arguing that THEIR favorite team is better than the other guy's. The Clinton partisans are VERY partisan, and I guess the same can be said for others. I have a preference myself but I am not willing to defend him, right or wrong. 'My candidate right or wrong' sounds a little too 'my country right or wrong' to my old ears. If the recount is going to show Hillary won fair and square, what are you afraid of? It will be a boost to her, won't it?  

  •  The level of anger and intolerance (5+ / 0-)

    for differing point of views is astounding.  I have seen comments from some of my favorites while I was a lurker and am amazed at how bitter they have become.  Democrats trashing Democrats, is this what we are reduced to?

    Not all who wander are lost. J.R.R. Tolkien

    by temptxan on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 12:48:06 PM PST

  •  I don't need bullshit reasons (0+ / 0-)

    to dislike the Clintons.  Thanks for caring, though.  

    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 01:00:50 PM PST

  •  Good for you! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cpresley, gloryous1

    This needs to be said again and again.  What's the ultimate goal.  For me, it's get the republicans out of power.  We're in a good situation with great candidates. That have positions out there that have never been discussed with lots of detail that need dissection.  To opt for personality rants is as remiss on this site as in the media.

    I feel like I also spend a lot of time defending candidates from irrational attacks.  I personally was disappointed that Biden could never be discussed without three or four things routinely surfacing: Hair, teeth, big mouth, credit card companies.  He had a wealth of information to offer the country and this community that should have had a fair hearing even if he wasn't a viable candidate.

    The front runners deserve the same...and...a little respect.

  •  Excellent insight (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    This should be a forum for informed discussion on how to move the country and the world forward.   It is not a campaign sight to promote or defend your candidate.  

    Let's discuss, think and comment!!!

  •  You're funny (0+ / 0-)

    I am quite new to dKOs. I find it is full of intelligent, passionate posters willing to concede impulsive thoughts and rethink things. Some of the "bull****" seems to be overly quick fingers to the keyboard. Trolls get tagged fast! (I've been impressed) Or called out and intelligently exposed as the fools they are. Plus, anyone can achieve TR marking rights making it very democratic.
    I came to dKOs from Huffpo because they have become loaded with the bull you are talking about, trolls and very uneven coverage of the primaries.
    If people's diaries have some freaking bizzaro theories, then here, they get criticized by comments. With facts, from what I've seen so far. Or opinions that are logically explained. Which leads to thinking...
    So, I'm really not seeing that much bull, as compared to other sites.

    -7.50/-7.90 Everyone knows I'm out in left field.

    by WiseFerret on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 02:14:51 PM PST

  •  I avoid candidate diaries as much as possible (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    except I do read and rec a lot of the ones from my fellow Kucinich people. We lonely idealists gotta stick together, ya know? However, I don't read the comments anymore because of the bullshit ratio.

    I keep thinking I should quit this place for the sake of my blood pressure, but I can't stay away entirely. I don't read nearly as much here, though, I'll tell you that much.

    Another Proud Subscriber to the Mariachi Mama Candidate Bickering Moratorium!

    by zett on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 03:17:52 PM PST

  •  Good sentiments top to bottom (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    No question.  I especially liked the opening and the closing.  Tehre's a pjrase for that ... Oh yeah.  Well-written.

    If I were to continue much further on this line I would leave myself open to accusations of kissing your ass - which I am willling (metaphorically) to do - so long as it is OK with yo if I use your No-BS graphic here on DKos. :)

    [Insert pithy phrase here]

    by Quicklund on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 08:09:53 PM PST

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