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Not many, I would say.  Many great past members have left the scene.

It's not that there are fewer Hillary Supporters in the general population.  Polls don't bear that out, although the vicious and biased media onslaughts from the MSM don't help.  But the truth is that nearly half (and perhaps more) Americans still stand behind Hillary.

It's really amazing to me that a woman who was vilified from the day she arrived as the wife of the newly elected Governor of Arkansas - 17 years ago.  The right hated her then, just as they do now.

Bill and her went on, regardless, to win the best 8 years of Democratic rule in a long time.  They brought us prosperity, lower unemployment, higher wages, fewer wars, and international respect.  They pulled us out of a deep deficit that Reagan had promised to never create (but he did), into a surplus.

The Clinton years were GOOD years.  Our wages rose, unemployment went down, way down, and, even in the midst of the most vile attacks and endless searches for Clinton wrong-doings, amounting to over $100 million dollars spent on investigations to find corruption, financial wrong-doings, etc. - all they had was a blue dress stain.

Oh the glory of it.  Finally, something that will bring him (them) down.

JFK, of course, had the courtesy of the press back then to refrain from publicizing his affairs, and my bet is that every president, with the exception of perhaps Jimmy Carter, has had affairs.

Now we have a new short-attention-span audience to just either forget about this, re-punishing Hillary for not divorcing her husband at the time, even her vows ring far more true to true marriage than the Republicans with one, two, or three past marriages, or even gay stuff (you know), preaching to us that marriage is sacred etc.

If you really look at it objectively, it's the Clintons who kept their vows.  I see true love between them - and forgiveness.  In my humble opinion, that is what makes marriages work.  I have no doubt in my mind that Bill loves Hillary, and Hillary loves Bill.  They experienced a lot of what all marriages experience.  Theirs was in public.  And they chose to stick together, because family is more important than a sexual encounter.

That just reminds me of the narrowness of our thinking.  On one hand we're supposed to fight for families togetherness - and on the other hand we're supposed to abandon them when they forgive each other for mistakes.

Which is it?

This is a late-night diary, and I need to go to bed.  Take care all of you.  It's not hit and run.  It's just something I needed to say before I go to bed.  Thanks.

Oh, the hypocrisy.

Originally posted to Gabriele Droz on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:41 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  See Alegre's below. n/t (6+ / 0-)

    I love the smell of impeachment in the morning!

    by gabbardd on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:42:37 PM PST

  •  The truth is her path to victory is gone (19+ / 0-)

    and drawing this race out is getting a little silly.

    Gandhi replied, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."

    by turnnoblindeye on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:42:41 PM PST

  •  This one does. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, ChiGirl88, invisiblewoman

    The pen is mightier than the sword, if it has been sharpened to a fine point, dipped in a deadly poison and is thrown from ten feet away.

    by psilocynic on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:42:56 PM PST

    •  Well (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mcfly, lenzy1000, Shhs

      I personally didn't have a very good decade - but I recognize that just because I'm not jumping turnstyles to afford to get to work anymore --- as I sometimes had to do in the 90s, doesn't mean the macro numbers weren't good.

      I guess everyone's got their own blog now.

      by zonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:48:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  And they weren't Hillary's years (5+ / 0-)
      unless she also wants to assume responsibility for things like NAFTA. Id you want us to consider Hillary on her merit and not revive arguments about whether she's riding on Bill's coattails, you can't assign the "Clinto years" to her.

      Indeed, it would be possible to post a diary here about Hillary but the tone of many of them was triumphalist, gloating and condescending. Needless to say, the tone became more belligerent as the road got rougher for Hillary. This diary is a sort of pity party. No, "half" of voters and certain not "more than half" don't support Hillary right now. she's run hard but she's not winning.

      This persecuted tone isn't helpful. It's possible to not be high-handed or to act like you deserve the nomination. Some of Hillary's followers can do that (the committed Hillary supporter and activist who made a beeline for the Obama campaign staffer at our meeting tonight to make sure the campaign could send a representative to the candidates night she was organizing in her county) and some can't.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14:

      by anastasia p on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:51:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hillary wasn't president then (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheJohnny, jdigs84, psilocynic, Shhs

      And Bill isn't running now.

      So she can't exactly take credit for those years, nor on the strength of his years, promise more of the same.

      Not unless she's going to give Bill a prominent role in her administration, which would figuratively put an asterisk on the administration of the first female president.

  •  article for you (4+ / 0-)

    You might find this from Slate of interest.  I happen to be for Obama, mainly because Edwards dropped out, but it's good that you say your piece, even if you may well get smoked for it.

    "It's only in books that the officers of the detective force are superior to the weakness of making a mistake." (Wilkie Collins, The Moonstone)

    by chingchongchinaman on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:45:01 PM PST

  •  Here's one (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Oh I'll be glad when the primary season is over ...

    by kbman on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:47:12 PM PST

  •  NAFTA, TANF, Ricky Ray Rector, Lani, (6+ / 0-)

    Tax cuts for the wealthy, the IMF sacking of East Asian economies, the embargo and bombing of Iraq,,,, hardly good years.  They only look good in comparison to Bush and Reagan.

    "Capital consists of living labor serving dead labor for the maintenance and expansion of the latter." --Karl Marx

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:47:31 PM PST

  •  No one likes a cheater. (10+ / 0-)

    No one.  Don't expect her to get any sympathy after blatantly threatening to cheat.  She even threatened to sue to reseat Florida and Michigan delegates.  After our party has had two elections stolen from us in a row, many of us are appalled.

    Don't blame us, blame the dirty politics and cheating threats.

  •  I thought she wasn't running on her husband's (9+ / 0-)

    record. She wants to be considered on her own merits. OK, she can't run a successful campaign... what makes you think she can run a country?

    Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom. -- Barack Obama

    by Jimdotz on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:47:45 PM PST

    •  Without her husband's name... (0+ / 3-)
      Recommended by:
      Hidden by:
      redlief, Plutonium Page, bobswern

      ...Hillary would be nowhere. She would never have had the 'experience' of living in the White House, she certainly would never have been elected a senator from New York State as Hillary Rodham and she absolutely would not be running for president. She is who she is because of who she married and she used her husband's name and fame to get elected to a Senate seat from a state than had a convenient opening. Sorry, but she does not deserve to be president.

      It would not surprise me in the least if the Clintons divorce over the next few years. She hung on in a humiliating marriage for the sake of her political possibilities. Those appear to be dwindling. She can continue to be a senator and I doubt very much if being divorced would affect her re-electability there. In fact, people might admire her more.  

  •  Your version: spin. Reality: HRC = Mike Huckabee (4+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    revbludge, andydoubtless, Shhs, Hope08
    Hidden by:

    Time to go home.

    Go back to the Senate. Where you can be primaried.

    It's a perfectly cromulent word.

    by jkennerl on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:47:56 PM PST

    •  if HRC = Mike Huckabee, then (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jiml, tecampbell, Shahryar, Shhs

      does BHO = John McCain?  I think HRC > Mike Huckabee.  I think

      HRC > Mike Huckabee + John McCain + Ron Paul + Mitt Romney + ...

      (-8.00,-7.85) "Jesus Christ was the first nonviolent revolutionary." --S. Stills

      by bubbanomics on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:50:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, she is better. But it's time to be done. nt (0+ / 0-)

        It's a perfectly cromulent word.

        by jkennerl on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:53:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  unfortunately... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          litigatormom, murrayewv

          I'm afraid you're right. Damn she would have been a wonderful president.

          •  She'll make a great Senator from New York (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            musicalhair, andydoubtless

            Until we find a primary challenger.

            It's a perfectly cromulent word.

            by jkennerl on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:07:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good luck with that (0+ / 0-)

              Wars not make one great. - Yoda

              by Volvo Liberal on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:21:21 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  You won't get one (0+ / 0-)

              And what are you going to primary her for, in 2012?  A vote in 2002?  Or just for the sheer audacity of having gotten in Barack Obama's way?

              The voters of NY like her. Unless she takes a seriously different tack in the next four years, they still will when she's up for re-election to the Senate, assuming that's what she's doing in 2012.

              It's the Constitution, stupid.

              by litigatormom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:31:22 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Maybe you're right (0+ / 0-)

                I do get carried away when I think about her the candidate as opposed to her the senator.

                However, if she does find a way to win the nomination via a calculated, anti-democratic superdelegate strategy, I will open my wallet to all Democratic comers in her Senate primary.

                That's a promise I'll keep.

                It's a perfectly cromulent word.

                by jkennerl on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:45:21 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  The superdelegates are free agents (0+ / 0-)

                  and they were put there to be free agents. You can call it undemocratic, but its undemocratic in the same way that the Electoral College is undemocratic. Those are the rules, however regrettable one may find them.

                  As a practical matter, however, unless the candidates are very very close in the delegate count, the superdelegates won't matter one way or another.  If the totals are close, then I think they are fair game. Especially since even the leader in elected delegates might need superdelegates to get him/her to the "magic number"  because there are no delegates from Michigan or Florida.

                  I'm not advocating here that those delegates should be seated based on the votes that have already occurred. I'm just pointing out that the number of delegates needed to win is based on a total delegate count that includes those two states. Not entirely logical, and it makes the superdelegates more important than they would otherwise be.

                  It's the Constitution, stupid.

                  by litigatormom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:03:07 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Bullshit (4+ / 0-)

      Hillary is like Huckabee? Just what have you been smoking tonight?

      •  Struggling against political reality (0+ / 0-)

        I mean it in the way that she will hang around, and around, when it's time to go home.

        It's a perfectly cromulent word.

        by jkennerl on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:11:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh come on (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          McCain actually has the delegates to get the nomination.  Huck has very very few. And he has never been anything but a fringe candidate.

          Clinton is behind, but not that far behind. She still has a lot of support throughout the country, if not on DKos.  

          BTW, the reason why neither candidate may reach the magic number after all the primaries is that the magic number assumes delegations from Michigan and Florida.  Whatever you do about those states, not counting them, and keeping the magic number the same, doesn't quite make sense.

          It's the Constitution, stupid.

          by litigatormom on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:35:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  wtf? HRC = huckabee (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gabriele Droz

      have we come to this now, where anyone with a quick, albeit inane, HRC slam can post it here and not get hydrated -- but rather get up-rated?

      come on

      plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize the senator from new york, but to equate her to an anti-evolutionist fundamentalist is beyond the pale.

      hydrated for the invective.


      "Is leor nod don eolach."

      -9.75 (economic), -7.18 (social)

      by dadanation on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:29:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I wasn't a fan of the Clinton years (5+ / 0-)

    but I was willing to give Hillary a chance - assuming she'd be different from Bill.  I'll be sorry not to have that chance to see her in action.  

    I'm an Edwards Democrat!

    by invisiblewoman on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:48:31 PM PST

  •  Not all Obama supporters are the same. (22+ / 0-)

    My husband feels the same way - he is hating the Hillary pile-on. I don't like it either.

    DKos is not the real world.

    I have volunteered for Obama & have met wonderful people who have no ill will for HRC or Bill.  

    And there are some, if not many, Obama supporters who don't do the pile-on.  We just work hard for our candidate & hope for the best.


    Will you help me raise $1000 for Jay Nixon who is running for Governor of Missouri.

    by aimeeinkc on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:48:41 PM PST

  •  its not about affairs anymore (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jkennerl, mijita, tecampbell, madgranny

    I honestly don't think the affair is an issue with anyone voting in the primaries right now. At least, I've never heard or seen it brought up in any of the places I frequent IRL or online.

    I applaud your bravery and loyalty. I go for Obama, but I'll be happy when we can unite behind a single person and be one big happy family again.

    In the doppler effect red means running away while blue means coming closer. Which would you rather live in, a red or blue state?

    by 808 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:48:50 PM PST

  •  Who cares about their marriage? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jkennerl, TLS66, revbludge, andydoubtless

    Does anyone care about their marriage one way or the other? I've always defended them and their privacy - but I have to admit, I'm totally bored and indifferent to whatever their emotional relationship is.

    The real thing is that she has run a destructive and petty campaign and alienated a lot of people who used to be supporters (like myself - I did vote for her twice.)

  •  past versus future (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    all of the things you say are true. But that doesn't mean she is the one to lead the country right now. This isn't her time.

    All extremists are irrational and should be exposed

    by SeanF on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:49:19 PM PST

  •  DaleA does, doesn't he? (5+ / 0-)

    As for some of the other well-knowns...

    It's not our fault that Universal, LC Johnson and Susan Hu are authoritarian--meaning mean-spirited, blatantly so to anyone who's not already on their side, whether oppposed, on the fence or indifferent--and shallow thinkers, making the moss ass backwards arguments.

    It sucked being an Obama supporter on here, I thought.  When I was making the same electability arguments, the same war arguments, the same health care arguments that are now finally tolerable about a year ago. They were well received.

    This throng of Obama support on here was earned.  For every mistake, Obama supporters had to make two better impressions on the crowd here.  

    We are not unified and that is largely our own faults.  But it is unfortunate that there are so few Hillary supporters to reasonably make her case here

    That said, the "visible" majority of her supporters have made it clear that seething hatred for anyone in her way is acceptable.

    And that's why MyDD looks the way it does.

    Politicians should fear the voters, how's it any different when they're superdelegates?

    by Nulwee on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:50:04 PM PST

  •  I am not going to say anything (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    andydoubtless, Shhs

    positive or negative about Hillary.  I sincerely believe Obama represents the future I would like to be a part of.  I have been saddened by the attack posts in dKos for and against everyone, but I suspece that Obama will win the nomination.  If that does not happen, I will cast my vote for Hillary.  I once thought I could vote for McCain, but his most recent statements have made that impossible.  

  •  It's time to stop thinking support for Obama (15+ / 0-)

    is an insult to Clinton, a memory dump of anything good that came from the Clinton years, or even a moment of popular delirium.  

    It's just not the case.  Many great politicians and  statesmen have lost nominations and general elections.

    A vote for Obama simply means support for Obama on the part of a majority of the people who vote for him.  Few of them, I think, vote for Obama because they hate Clinton.

    I respect Clinton and just don't think the time is right for her.

    NetrootNews coming soon!

    by ksh01 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:51:48 PM PST

    •  Adlai Stevenson (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mijita, madgranny

      was not by no means as hawkish as Clinton. Al Smith? Eugene McCarthy? Gary Hart? Jesse Jackson? Al Gore? Howard Dean? John Edwards?

      Politicians should fear the voters, how's it any different when they're superdelegates?

      by Nulwee on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:57:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If only that were the case (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mijita, Gabriele Droz

      Again, another good comment from an Obama supporter. And another person with a low ID#...Have you read comments from your fellow Obama supporters in the 140,000 - 150,000 range? Everything is a Clinton insult to them...

      Wars not make one great. - Yoda

      by Volvo Liberal on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:28:38 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  that's unfortunate. That kind of stuff (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mijita, Over the Edge

        is really screwing up the site.  And I know it comes from both sides, but a little grace would be nice.

        My vote was a hard decision for me and one that I made on the basis of who I thought could win the general. There are things both candidates have done that I disagree with, but I think some folks have gone overboard with Hillary hatred.

        NetrootNews coming soon!

        by ksh01 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:34:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I know... it sucks (0+ / 0-)

        A lot of people (myself included) try and counter it.  But it's harder to write substance than cheap nasty crap.  

        The flip side is, people naturally see the crap and are hurt by it way more easily than they feel good about positive comments (human nature).  

        I'm just not sure what the answer is.  In my own case, I'm way more offended by people who are also supporting Obama posting mean and rude stuff than I am by it coming from Clinton supporters, mostly because I feel tarred by the same brush.  

        the third eye does not weep. it knows. Political compass: -9.75 / -8.72

        by mijita on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:42:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  You should go over to myDD (4+ / 0-)

    and ask them why there are no pro-Obama diaries.

    Hillary has been busy making sure that the Dems lose the general election this fall, the plagerism crap was the last straw for me with her, I used to at least respect her.

    •  You like Al Gore? (0+ / 0-)

      Who do you think first attacked Dukakus for letting Willie Horton out of jail.  Yeah, it was Gore during the primary of 1988.

      That what happens with primaries, folks.

      •  Does that excuse Hillary? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jkennerl, Shhs

        Desperate doesn't even begin to describe her campaign recently...

        •  It's not a matter of excusing... (0+ / 0-)

          Primaries are always hard fought.  Bush Sr. called Reagan's Economic plan, Voodoo.

          He was right, but it was harsh.  This is seen as part of political life.

          Hillary is toast here, so whatever she does, says or doesn't do, is castigated.

          That's life, so we may as well accept it.

          If you have a statistical bent, you might want to look at some results from a diaryyesterday that illustrates this.

          •  It's killing the party (0+ / 0-)

   a year when the Republicans have no business being anywhere near the White House.

            I'm not trying to be a trouble maker, I've always liked the Clinton's and I think Bill was a great President but I never actually believed that they would put their own interests ahead of the parties like this.

            I guess I should have listened to the people who said that they would.

      •  Gore never mentioned Horton by name (0+ / 0-)

        nor did he mention his race.  And it's Dukakis.

      •  You're wrong (0+ / 0-)

        You are repeating a Sean Hannity/Laura Ingraham fiction. Stop it. Those aren't people we respect here.

        We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14:

        by anastasia p on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:18:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  no it was not (0+ / 0-)

        In fact, as Media Matters for America has documented, although Gore did ask Dukakis about "weekend passes for convicted criminals" during a 1988 Democratic primary debate, "Gore never mentioned that Horton was black; indeed, he never mentioned Horton by name," as "Chatterbox" columnist Timothy Noah noted on November 1, 1999. Further, as Daily Howler editor Bob Somerby has documented, Gore never mentioned Horton's crime but specifically mentioned two other criminals who committed murder after escaping from their prison furlough.

        It was the Bush-Quayle '88 campaign that first used the Horton case against Dukakis.

        from the media matters site

        i added the emphasis for emphasis


        "Is leor nod don eolach."

        -9.75 (economic), -7.18 (social)

        by dadanation on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:35:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I never expected any more than I'm receiving (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mystic, madgranny, jay w

    from all of you.  I just had to tell you how I feel about this whole thing.

    Go at it.  Free speech is our common right.

  •  Such a diary would be a waste of effort... (0+ / 0-)

    Call it group dynamics or Mob Mentality, but nothing critical of Obama or praising HRC will be accepted here.

    His some analysisof a poll that shows this.

    Much criticism, but no cogent arguments against my thesis.

  •  One thought to you Obama followers (5+ / 0-)

    By all means - keep it up - be as nasty as you can - get it out of your system

    because each time you launch your attacks - you just lost a future an Obama supporter.

    For someone that wants so desperately for Obama to win - you are costing him a lot of good will.

    Proud to be a Bleeding Heart Liberal

    by sara seattle on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:52:48 PM PST

  •  Well, jesus h. christ. You don't get it. (5+ / 0-)

    It's really amazing to me that a woman who was vilified from the day she arrived as the wife of the newly elected Governor of Arkansas - 17 years ago.  The right hated her then, just as they do now.

    You know, that's the real problem with Rovian figure out who you hate, and then vote for the candidate that will drive them crazy.  It's the way the republicans have gotten middle america to vote against democrats for years.  We're sick of the culture wars.  

    Bill and her went on, regardless, to win the best 8 years of Democratic rule in a long time.

    "Bill and her"? Well, only one person can be president, and guess what? It's not going to be Bill.  And even Bill isn't Bill any more.  You know who is the heir to his hope, his themes, his skills? Obama.  

    If she's so hardworking and wonky, why didn't she read the NIE before voting for the war?

    by Inland on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:53:22 PM PST

  •  Clinton definitely does have a strong . . . (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mystic, Mike Taylor

    base of support within the Democratic party.

    But to suggest that there is a poll anywhere saying that more than half of the population is behind her is to perpetuate a fantasy based on no evidence.  

    Her national numbers have never been more than 46-47% of the population and she has never been able to expand her base in any real way beyond core support groups within the Democratic party.

  •  I'll welcome you. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jkennerl, mijita, LarsThorwald

    I love Bill Clinton of Arkansas, the man from Hope, the Comeback Kid. I adore the guy.

    And I have respect for their marriage -- though honestly, I do think it isn't for the best to have that marriage at the center of the White House.

    And Hillary is a fantastic Senator and when I see her, I have a smile on my face.

    From an abomination to an Obama Nation

    by copithorne on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:53:41 PM PST

  •  I like Hillary, I just like Obama better... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jkennerl, dadanation, mijita, getinthek

    ... and I really wanted John Edwards anyhow.

    I hope the ticket winds up Obama-Edwards, but I'll vote for Obama-Clinton as well.

    Uh, oh. It's a class war and I'm unarmed!

    by Sharkmeister on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:53:46 PM PST

    •  best we can be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Barack Obama seems genuine and sincere and I have been supporting him for several months now because I believe he will inspire us all to be the best Americans that we can terms of taking steps to protect our environment, help provide tax breaks to the lower and middle classes, and improving our schools.

      not just on day one, but throughout the future.

  •  I can't tonight, but I have an idea for her. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LarsThorwald, spookthesunset

    Hillary Clinton is light years smarter than her rhetoric.  It's not that her rhetoric is terrible, so much as she's a brainiac.  She's forgotten more about dozens of issues than any of us will ever know.

    So, at she stares into the presidential abyss, she needs to demonstrate her unique intellectual capacity to lead this complicated country.  She'll never do this on the stump, or in our asinine debates, or via her hamhanded political operation, or through MSM mouthpieces.

    What she needs to do is buy MASSIVE TIME on all network primetime to talk for 15 minutes minimum, 30 minutes maximum about her signature issue, health care.  I'm talking PEROT-STYLE.  We need to see PIE CHARTS, trend lines, number crunching.  AMERICAN ADULTS WANT TO LEARN about the issues that affect their lives.  Hell, we don't even need to be able to understand half of what she's talking about.  Hillary needs to teach, not speechify and vie for camera angles.

    It'll cost a ton.  But the promotion will be free, and if she wants to be president, she's got nothing else to spend her dough on.

    If Hillary buys half an hour to teach me about health care, as an Obama supporter, I'll watch every minute.

    •  Intelligence doesn't always translate into... (0+ / 0-)

      leadership. There are different types of intelligence. Mastery of a wealth of facts does not equal the ability to see the big picture or to inspire others to follow a greater vision.

      If I were putting together a Jeopardy team, Clinton would be my first pick. But if I were putting together a leadership team, I'd want Obama as the CEO.

      Iraq AUMF: the ultimate right-wing talking point...

      by Azdak on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:54:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure. But my point is, she's not selling her (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dadanation, spookthesunset

        strong suit.  Her strong suit isn't retail politics.  Her strong suit is policy mastery.

        Her campaign team has disserved her terribly.  It's her fault, ultimately.  But Mark Penn shouldn't be able to find a game of jacks between Boston and DC.

        •  I am not sure her "strong suit" improves her... (0+ / 0-)

          electablity. Maybe it would--a lot of people are susceptible. I hear her talk policy, and I think: this is way too micro for an executive.

          I find that the more she talks, the more diminished she becomes as a possible president in my eyes. I was listening tonight on the radio to her speech and all I could think of was "this is AWFUL". I had to switch stations.

          I know that sounds negative, but I really don't mean it as criticism. My "intelligence type" is similar to hers. There is a place for that type of person and they are extremely valuable. I just don't think being President is the best fit.

          Iraq AUMF: the ultimate right-wing talking point...

          by Azdak on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:16:08 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, she's staring into the abyss now. (0+ / 0-)

            Retail politicking has failed her.  It's Hail Mary time.  Perot proved that with 15-30 minutes and charts full of X's and O's, he could sway 20 percent of the electorate to his campaign, most of them independents.  Because of this success, I think HRC can confidently copy it, and present it as novel and compelling.

            Even if all she manages to do is create buyer's remorse for Obama, she will have galvanized the country around her signature issue and made it easier for him to campaign on it in the general, and then get legislation passed with her in the Senate when he's president.

  •  i look at all the things that i know now (0+ / 0-)

    about the clintons and their past legislatively and inspirationally and say - that is so yesterday. the baby boom generation only cares about themselves and i am so tired of the finger wagging and bull crap that i just want to be rid of the clintons.

    they are so arrogant and classless (or should i say snooty and high minded) that i would like to take a chance with the outsider.

  •  the Clinton years were not good years (7+ / 0-)

    for the Democratic Party.

    and the economic bubble burst, although it was good while it lasted.

    in all seriousness, I think the proHRC people have gone to MyDD.

    I don't wish Hillary Clinton ill.  I don't hate her.  I just don't think she is the right candidate for this time in history.

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
    give NOW to Populista's OBAMATHON!

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:55:39 PM PST

  •  here is why many of us opposed her (3+ / 0-)

    it is a long list but I think that it is important to see because to many of us (who aren't evil people for not supporting her) these are some pretty convincing reasons:
    (and I've posted this list a couple of other places tonight (but not on DK)

    -Terry McAwful
    -supporting Joe Lieberman
    -playing the gender wars card (from the early nineties) and dividing progressives to fulfill her sense of entitlement
    -playing the race baiting card in South Carolina showing that her courting of the African American community was all politics and they could be thrown under the bus if they wouldn't support what seems like a big sense of entitlement
    -trying to game the rules and get delegates seated that she agreed would not be seated.
    --the way that Hillary and Bill fought against Gov Dean becoming head of the DNC (that alone tipped me against her)
    -the negative attacks in Wisconsin
    -the chance that she has always been lying about things like the cattle futures trading (a political friend of her husband turned her $1000 investment into $100,000 in a few months and this was never investigated and the Republicans will bring it up, guaranteed).
    -the suspicion that she is crooked.
    -our perception that she will do anything or say anything to get power.
    -the fact that Obama is CONSISTENTLY rated by voters as better able to beat McCain in the general election
    -her unwillingness to congratulate Senator Obama when he wins primaries like VA, Maryland, DC, Wisconsin
    -her negative numbers across the board among voters which she cannot turn and would be handicapped by in the general election

    AND YOU WONDER why we are flocking to a candidate promising change and hope???

    It is time to turn a new page in America. It is a shame that the first significant female candidate was so tied to the politics of yesterday. But the race is too important to ignore all of the above just because is a female. Barack Obama will be a better president for all of us, female and male, black white etc, straight and gay.

    It is time for change and she was the candidate of the past.

    by denniswine on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:56:37 PM PST

  •  Not a Clinton supporter... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mijita, tecampbell, mystic

    But..its not because I didn't appreciate the years when Bill Clinton was president or her role as a First Lady. I actually think she was one of the great First Ladies. She was smart and accomplished and not afraid to show us all..unlike many other First Ladies who are just pretty faces.

    I also don't blame Hillary for Bill's indiscretions. And I would never presume to believe she should divorce her husband. If she can forgive him and the two can work it out, the more power to them. I have many friends who chose to work things out after their husband's had affairs and I in most cases, it worked out well. No one is perfect. I think Hillary showed great courage and poise through the entire situation. I was very proud of her at the time.

    I am not voting for her because I think at this moment in time, Obama would be the better candidate. He will bring this country back together again. I have heard the arguments against him from the Hillary campaign but I don't agree. And I have heard very little reasons to vote for her other than to relive the Bill Clinton years.

    And while there were many good things, especially in his first term, there were a lot of nasty things too..not his fault or hers really. But I don't want to go back there again.

  •  Hillary is a tough candidate to beat, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mijita, Shahryar, Liberal Pride

    and she deserves respect.

    She is not my fav, but of course her voice is welcome.

    Soon we'll all have to work together.  I hope we don't forget that.

    "It is time to turn the page." Indeed.

    by tecampbell on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:56:40 PM PST

  •  Well, the McCain presidency will certainly change (5+ / 2-)

    the tenor of DK. I suspect the Obama love will decline ever so slightly at that point.. but not by much.

  •  More strawmen... (0+ / 0-)

    Look, I have a big problem with Hillary's weaseliness on the Iraq war, on the Bush mafia's general lawlessness, and specifically on wiretapping, use of torture, and Guantanamo Bay.  I think she ought to have been in the forefront, leading the opposition on all of these.  But instead, she chose to step back.

    But she's still a fine democrat, and a great American.  I'd be happy to vote for her, and if she wins the nomination, I'll send her money and might even volunteer for her campaign.

    But I just prefer Obama, for the reasons I gave above.  He's not much different from her, so it's not a very strong preference.  But on the above issues, he was sufficiently different that I voted for him instead.

    Let's not put up strawmen about how people just hate Hillary.  Lots and lots of people here have clearly stated how they like Hillary, but hate her campaign's tactics.  Many are quick to blame Bill and Hillary for such campaign sleaze, with scant evidence.  But many others clearly blame her advisers.  And those advisers are certainly problematic.

    But no, I don't hate Hillary.  Or Bill.  Far from it!

  •  Sometimes I wish there could have been (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mijita, murrayewv, tecampbell

    a Hillary without the Bill.  When she made the baking cookies comment, I can remember applauding in agreement, but she was attacked so much for that comment that I think it stifled who she was.  I have a nothing but respect for the people who support what she stands for.

    "Hope is that thing inside us that insists...that something better awaits us if we have the courage to fight for it." --Barack Obama

    by loree920 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:57:17 PM PST

  •  Oh, the horror. The Horror! And horrible writing (2+ / 0-)

    Fragmented sentences. Sentences that are incomplete ideas.

    That's without even touching on the substance of the piece, which I reject entirely. Hillary isn't being "re-punished" or even punished for not divorcing her husband. outside of the diarist, no one is suggesting that "we're supposed to abandon them when they forgive each other for mistakes."

    This is the most simplistic piece of crap I've read in a while. It's written by a child, with an early bedtime, who sees the world in such infantile ways.

    People are voting for Obama beacuse they prefer him. I didn't give Clinton's marriage a single thought when I decided to push the square next to Obama's name, and I doubt anyone else did -- at least, not in the way the diarist suggests. I suppose some folks are simply tired of the family's public conduct. But, it's got nothing to do with their private business. That's just playground foolishness. Try writing grown-up thoughts next time out.

    Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

    by FischFry on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:57:53 PM PST

    •  Nasty. Unnecessarily so. n/t (0+ / 0-)
      •  And so was the diary. (0+ / 0-)

        Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

        by FischFry on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:40:32 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  No, it wasn't. You don't have to agree with (0+ / 0-)

          the diarist's point of view. But your response was pure fucking nastiness. YOU are one of the reasons people are writing "what the fuck is going on here" diaries that implore people to be civil.

          •  I don't agree with the tone of FF's comments... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            but there is nothing civil about the tone of this diary.

            Iraq AUMF: the ultimate right-wing talking point...

            by Azdak on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:03:21 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Perhaps you didn't read the diary (0+ / 0-)

            Apparently, the only reason they vote for Obama instead of Clinton is because they disapporove of the the Clintons' relationship.

            Either the diarist has belittled the perspective of everyone who voted for Obama, or Obama's supporters are some awfully small-minded people.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

            by FischFry on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:07:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, perhaps you didn't read the diary (0+ / 0-)

              Most of it was about the fact that people were better off economically then than they are now. And by the way, my step-father said one of the reasons he doesn't like HRC is because she should have divorced her husband. He is a professor of Philosophy at the Univ. of PA and is certainly not small-minded.  

              •  Most of it? (0+ / 0-)

                There were two sentences about the economic situation. In truth, though, there was really only one, since the two sentences said the exact same thing -- wages went up (This is actually wrong, except for the top 10%, but let's not quibble), and unemployment went down (though many of the "new hires" were people working second and third jobs, or new jobs that paid less and with fewer benefits than previous ones, but let's not quibble).

                The diarist said the same thing in two different sentences, but even if you give her credit for saying the same two things twice, it hardly represents "most" of the diary.

                Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

                by FischFry on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:27:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  The problem here isn't a lack of civility (0+ / 0-)

            It's a lack of reasonableness and honesty. Except for just a few thin-skinned folks, I haven't read any complaints about incivility. On the other hand, I"ve read a bevy of diaries that are profoundly critical of the way supporters of the two remaining candidates have tried to scandalize everything that has happened in the campaign, manufacturing outrage at every turn -- practicing scandal-mongering, while hypocritically attacking the other campaign, or its supporters for similar conduct. I've read a bevy of diaries that bemoan the demonization of one candidate or the other, and conjuring up apocalyptic visions of the future should that candidate win.

            It's the complete and utter falseness of all these candidate diaries and comments that is the problem, not whether they reflect good manners. Take this from an Edwards' supporter. If there is some substance, fairness and honesty to a criticsm, I'll applaud it. If I see hypocrisy and complete dishonesty, or total blindness and uncritical bias, I'll call you on it. And I won't be civil. I don't believe it's all fair in politics, love and war. Quite the opposite. The only thing that's fair is being fair, honest and objective. These are passionate subjects, though. Manners and civility don't count for much, and, frankly, seem false. Give me passion, not civility. But, don't substitute passion for truth.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

            by FischFry on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:20:54 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I might add, tro be clear (0+ / 0-)

            I don't "disagree" with the diary. Well, I do, because I think it's ridiculous and couldn't be more wrong. But, my bigger bone to pick is that I think it's thoughtless and offensive in its criticism of folks voting for candidates other than Clinton. At least, the diarist could have accused them of something positive, such as liking Obama just because he's a charming, articulate black man.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

            by FischFry on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 10:42:24 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  It can't be Hillary's fault, can it? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    musicalhair, DaveV, Inland

    People can't have legitimate reasons for not supporting Hillary. It's just all those pesky Hillary haters, who would still hate Hillary, even is she gave us all ponies(and stopped insulting people's intelligence).

  •  Thanks for the usual crap responses. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dave1021, zephron, unionsally

    I expected nothing less.  No acknowledgements of accomplishments during a rise of Republicanism.  Only critizism of what didn't get done.  Obama was not in their position at that time - and Obama, with all his talk of unification - does not give me one cent of confidence that he could have, or would, do better than the Clintons.

    Watch my words - in the future.

    •  Uh, you got some good responses, including mine. (4+ / 0-)

      But if it makes you feel better to pretend like you're being victimized, go ahead.  

      If she's so hardworking and wonky, why didn't she read the NIE before voting for the war?

      by Inland on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:11:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Gimme a break (0+ / 0-)

      You know darn well that the middle of a close campaign isn't the time for lauding your opponent. Are the Clinton supporters constantly raving about Obama's accomplishments? Did Clinton supporters mention her opponents' accomplishments in her 2 runs for the senate?

      Quite frankly, phrases like "I like Hillary, I just like Obama better" and "we are blessed to have 2 wonderful candidates" have been repeated over and over on this site - it has been far from all Clinton-bashing. And there has been plenty of Obama bashing by the Clinton side.

      Personally, I would much prefer a site with all pro-Obama and pro-Clinton diaries, and I can honestly say I have recommended every pro-Clinton diary I have read.

      "I live by Syllogisms. For instance: God is love. Love is blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God!" ~Steven Colbert

      by watch out for snakes on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:20:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If you're so eager to read... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      musicalhair, Inland, Crisitunity

      a positve HRC diary, WRITE ONE.

      Instead you write a diary complaining about Obama supporters and then you get upset when they respond.

      Why is this so hard?

  •  It's not that nobody posts pro-Hill diaries (0+ / 0-)

    anymore. It's the strange audience they attract. You know, the kind of audience that's attracted to train wrecks and other disasters. </runs>

    Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

    by brainwave on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:00:14 PM PST

  •  Shorter HRC: Great candidate, crappy voters n/t (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    John McCain's Straight Talk Express runs on fossil fuels.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:00:44 PM PST

  •  I neather support Obama or Clinton (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I support the Democratic nominee but the more she acts like Bush/Rove the more I hope Obama wins.Like this plagerisum (how ever you spell it)crap so lets pass a Law whenever anyone talks they must have "*"and foot notes to every word an phrase you use giving credit to who spoke it first so lets start "a' credit goes to Cronk in 100,000 B.C.,"b" to Cronk's wife in 100,000 B.C. and so on and so forth.

  •  Does anyone dare post a pro-Gravel diary anymore? (6+ / 0-)

    It's because of all those pesky Gravel-haters. Yea, that's the ticket.

  •  some 'isms' are ok (0+ / 0-)

    and I know there will never be a woman president in my lifetime (I'm 30 something) because of it. I don't know why everyone's so afraid to say it.

  •  I expected nothing from all of you. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    heineken1717, jay w

    I had to state my point of view, for my own heart's sake.  And I believe in my own thoughts.  I also believe that you have the same right.  So, in the end, let's examine what is best for our Country, shall we?

    Democrats versus Republicans?  Anyone have an issue with that?

    •  As an Obama supporter, I say... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gabriele Droz, younglady

      Senator Hillary Clinton has accomplished extraordinary things.  She is the type of determined leader that will place her not only near the front of the line of a group of very strong political women--Eleanor Roosevelt, Bella Abzug, Pat Schroeder, Barbara Jordan--but well ahead of many politicians, regardless of age.

      She is a fighter, and rightly deserving of Bobby Kennedy's Senate Seat.  I have said so from her candidacy for office and I will say so until I am proven otherwise.

      That said, I also believe that she represents a style of politics that we have been all-too comfortable with.  I sincerely believe that this is a generational moment of change, and I sincerely believe that Obama not only best voices that change, but can stand for that change as President.  He is inspirational, yes, but he is also smart, determined, disciplined, and tough.  I suspect his will not be a reed that bends easily.  Time will tell.

      That said, I urge you not to become disheartened by the gloating and crooning of supporters who are ill-equipped to express their feelings any other way.

      They do not represent the message behind the man, a message that says we have to get away from the zero-sum game of politics today.

      Ignore them.  But don't hold the man responsible for fools.  I certainly don't hold Hillary Clinton responsible for or the rantings of Taylor Marsh.

      We are blessed to have two strong candidates, and their primary battle with strengthen the eventual nominee, whoever that is.  I can't remember the last time Democrats have had such an embarrassment of riches.

      Look past the silly season upon us now and think of the summer and fall.  We--and by that I mean Democrats--will need every vote, every voice.  

      Hold fast the line and be proud you back a truly exemplary candidate.

      "We have been told that we cannot do this by a chorus of cynics who will only grow louder and more dissonant..."

      by LarsThorwald on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:35:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  so stop whining and post one! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jkennerl, watch out for snakes

    Or is it more fun to whine about how we'll oppress you?

    But he's BLACK! And a MUSLIM!

    by Leggy Starlitz on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:16:01 PM PST

  •  They were good years (0+ / 0-)

    if you didn't live in Rwanda.

    or if you were a gay person who thought you should be allowed to be married.

    I mean, how bad could Senator John McPalpatine possibly be?

    by terra on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:16:20 PM PST

  •  Thank you for this diary (3+ / 0-)

    Although my choice was Edwards, I think either HRC or BHO would make a fine president. I don't think the Clinton years were that great -- although millions of jobs were created, many of them were low-wage service sector jobs w/ no benefits. Getting rid of "welfare as we know it" resulted in a million more children living in poverty and Workfare (sp?), a program that undercut workers' wages. Sorry, I don't have links. If anyone is interested in the information, I am sure it is pretty easy to look up.

    All that being said, I don't think that Hillary deserves the hatred she receives here.

    I used to live in MA, and friends there had lots of hope and excitement about Deval Patrick, the Gov. After at least 3 terms of a Republican Governor people were dying to get a Democratic Gov. Deval Patrick talked about hope and change much in the same way BHO does. From what I understand, people are pretty disappointed with their new Governor. And he has a state legislature that is overwhelmingly Democrat. Very few Repulicans. Very few people to reach over the aisle to. And people are disappointed that he has not been able to achieve what he talked about in his campaign. With Democrats.  

    It will be interesting to see what happens if BHO wins the nomination and election.

    My prediction, for which I am sure to be slammed? Disappointment. Sorry.

  •  Great diary rec'd. (0+ / 0-)

    Good comment thread.

  •  Just what I expected from Y'all, (0+ / 0-)

    no more, no less.

    Good night.

  •  Glad to see you posting (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gabriele Droz

    The Clinton / Obama hate isn't something I can get my head around.  I don't support HRC -- and I don't think of the Clinton years fondly, except in comparison with where we are now.    But I don't find Hillary hateful.  The people who say they'll vote for McCain over her seem utterly insane to me (as do any democrats who would claim that).

    There is something about the affair that gets to some people.  It's like they're trying to punish BC via Hillary.  I don't get that.  

    It's easy to say ignore the bad and focus on the good people online, but a lot harder to do.  And I know it's hard to watch a candidate you believe in go down.  :(

    the third eye does not weep. it knows. Political compass: -9.75 / -8.72

    by mijita on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 09:50:06 PM PST

  •  The War? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    musicalhair, Independant Man

    There's a real cognitive disconnect between Hillary's supporters and opponents when it comes to the war, and this diary illustrates it. It's fascinating to me the attention the diarist gives the Clinton marriage as a potential reason for our dislike of the candidate, when literally I could care less about it and would find it retrograde to vote against a woman for the personal misdeeds of her husband. Frankly, I think this is the consensus of Obama voters.

    It's uncanny to me that Hillary supporters don't identify the war and Hillary's vote for the authorization of the use of force against Iraq as one of the reasons Democrats rally against her. It's obvious to me that if the March 2003 invasion of Iraq was as successful as the January 1991 invasion, Obama would probably now still be a state senator, and Hillary Clinton would probably already have won the nomination.

    It's not even just this diary. Some Clinton supporters I dined with over the weekend were adamant that Clinton was only performing her duty as an elected official by bowing to popular demand that we invade Iraq in late 2002. Others dodge the issue more completely by emphasizing subsequent votes on funding of the occupation on which Clinton and Obama both supported the continued presence. Many Clinton supporters on this site simply change the subject.

    But if you want to know what lies in the emotional heart of the hostility to Hillary on the left, you have to take seriously the determination of anti-war progressives to electorally punish as completely as possible, as long as possible, every supporter of the 2003 invasion.

    I will never have the chance to cast another vote against George W. Bush. I will never have the chance to do so with Dick Cheney, either. But I do have that option against Hillary Clinton, who voted to send 4,000 Americans to their deaths.

    This is as honest as I can be about this: when I hear talk that Hillary may not be so bad, images flash before my mind of soldiers missing limbs, families missing mothers and fathers, a destroyed and despoiled country.

    For me, that's enough.

  •  Hopefully people continue to post pro Hillary (0+ / 0-)

    diaries and that others will respect their decision to do so along with their decision to support Hillary. I prefer Obama to Hillary, but I have no doubt that Hillary would make a good President and I will vote for her if she is the nominee. There are things I do not like about Hillary and much of that may just be due to my perceptions. I think the whole "inevitability" issue has hurt her campaign in subtle (and not so subtle) ways. This label is largely due to early polling, Hillary's confidence, and the use of the term "inevitable" by the media to describe Hillary's chances of success. I believe that the term has negative connotations in this context and may have been deliberately chosen for that reason. Americans not only love to root for the underdog, but they don't like to be told that their votes are a mere formality. Campaign gaffes about the importance of some states over others have not helped either and have contributed to charges of elistism on the part of her campaign. This may not be fair, but it is how the game of politics is played and Hillary is certainly experienced enough in that game to know better. I do not doubt Hillary's sincerity and her passion for public service, although she has a hard time conveying that to the public. Aside from the emotional interview following the Iowa caucuses, Hillary has delivered a fairly monotone message that stresses her experience (and now solutions) while avoiding fanciful flights of rhetoric designed to appeal to the right brain. I disagree with Hillary's vote to authorize the use of military force in Iraq and her continued defense of that decision. I think that often her jusgement is clouded by political expediency and her belief that this is the only way to get things done in Washington. But I long to rise above the mundane politics of the momemnt and to strive for the sublime, which is why Obama appeals to me. The things Obama talks about may not be realistic, but without the dream there is no hope to achieve more than we thought we could. And isn't that how all of this came to be in the first place?

    By all means, keep writing Hillary diaries. We need the frank and open exchange of ideas and opinions to keep us honest. And we need to be reminded that no single candidate has all of the answers. I hope that when all of this plays out that the candidates will support one another in the work that needs to be done to get us back on track and to restore poeple's faith in our country and the future.  

  •  Great diary. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gabriele Droz, heineken1717

    I know you're tired...February has been a tough month for Hillary supporters and the strategy of creating Hillary-hate is tough to watch.

    But, March is just around the corner, and Hillary is not a quitter. Her strength is incredible. When I feel tired and  beat up by all the witchy bitchy Hillary comments I just look at how graceful and steadfast and determined Hillary looks and acts. I figure if she can keep going because she is committed to universal health care, building the middle class, improving our education and the like...well I can keep going too.

    Get a good nights sleep -- we'll start working on Ohio and Texas tomorrow.

  •  What a nice surprise. It is truly amazing how (3+ / 0-)

    much hatred the candidate of hope and change has created on this blog for his  adversary.

    I can't say it bodes well for the future.

  •  Very nice diary Gabriele, thanks for writing. nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gabriele Droz

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