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Last week when John W. McCain accepted an endorsement from John "End Times" Hagee, McCain said:

All I can tell you is I'm very proud to have pastor Hagee's support.

But with questions being raised about anti-Catholic statements made by him, Hagee has been forced to issue a statement expressing shock and sadness that his words have been "mischaracterized":

I have always had great love for Catholic people and great respect for the Catholic Church. My wife comes from a Catholic family and millions of my viewers are Catholics. I am shocked and saddened to learn of the mischaracterization of my views on Catholics that has spread while I spent the weekend celebrating the 50th anniversary of my entry into the ministry with family and friends.  [...]

To call me 'anti-Catholic' makes about as much sense as calling me 'anti-Protestant.' I am, most assuredly, neither.

Well there you have it; he is, most assuredly, not anti-Catholic.  We can forget that he called the Catholic Church "the great whore," and "a false cult system."  That was said with love and respect. And when he said that there is a "clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews," he didn't really mean that the Church conspired with Hitler to exterminate Jewish people.  Of course he didn't.  In fact, we should call him the Straight Talking Pastor.  

John Hagee is a lover, not a hater.  And now that he's cleared up all of those misconceptions, perhaps our intrepid press corps could get a clarification from Senator Straight Talk, because after questions were raised about Hagee, McCain said:

...that does not mean that I endorse everything that he stands for and believes in.

So please, let's find out exactly which beliefs McCain doesn't endorse.  Is it Hagee's past statements about Catholics?   Because if that's the case, doesn't that mean that McCain is denouncing and rejecting the statement from Hagee saying he has great respect for the Catholic Church?  And wouldn't that be calling the man whose endorsement McCain "proudly" accepted a liar?  Or does McCain believe that saying the Catholic Church is the great whore who conspired with Hitler can be explained away?  

And when the press clears that up, maybe they could ask McCain if he agrees that the victims of Hurricane Katrina were the "recipients of the judgement of God" for their sins.  Hagee was pretty adamant about that one.  

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:03 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  McCain is such a sell-out, in so many ways... (9+ / 0-)

    and his pandering to the Religious Reich after admonishing them in 2000 and earlier is (just one more) testament to that fact.

    •  Wasn't it McCain (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      who made the controversial visit to Bob Jones University in 2000?

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:12:20 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a Republican definition of 'not anti-' (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah

      He means that if you're Catholic, he doesn't think you should be executed or deported or imprisoned, rather he thinks it's ok for you to convert and join his side. The follow-up questions should have been "Are you against the Catholic church? Are you against Catholicism? Why did you call the Catholic church 'the great whore'?"

      There are plenty of reasons to criticize the catholic church, but Hagee's remarks amount to discrimination/bigotry, and McCain should not be able to stand by him, especially when fundamentalist 'Chistians' like Hagee opely espouse so many Satanic, anti-Jesus beliefs and attitudes.

  •  How does reality-based candidate respond to this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, JeffW

    Obama knows he has an insurmountable delegate lead and the superdelegates will not overturn the will of the primary voters so time to distinguish himself from McCain.

    Here is part of an email Obama I received from the Obama campaign which was likely sent to all his supporters.

    We knew that the closer we got to the change we seek, the more we'd see of the politics we're trying to end -- the attacks and distortions that try to distract us from the issues that matter to people's lives, the stunts and the tactics that ask us to fear instead of hope.

    In the coming weeks, we will begin a great debate about the future of this country with a man who has served it bravely and loves it dearly. And we will offer two very different visions of the America we see in the twenty-first century.

    •  Obama campaign (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JeffW

      isn't going to make this election about the nutters who support John McCain, or what kind of pretzel McCain twists himself into to accept their support without alienating the other Republican voters these nutters insulted.

      Obama is going to run his campaign on issues. Novel idea, eh?

      •  Ah Yes! The Issues! (0+ / 0-)
        There were so many of them mentioned in his Iowa victory speech, I lost count at zero.
        •  You missed a few then (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JeffW

          http://www.newsday.com/...

          lobbying reform

          You said the time has come to tell the lobbyists who think their money and their influence speak louder than our voices that they don't own this government -- we do.

          Health Care

          ll be a president who finally makes health care affordable and available to every single American, the same way I expanded health care in Illinois,

          Tax reform

          I'll be a president who ends the tax breaks for companies that ship our jobs overseas and put a middle-class tax cut into the pockets of working Americans who deserve it.

          Energy and Science policy

          'll be a president who harnesses the ingenuity of farmers and scientists and entrepreneurs to free this nation from the tyranny of oil once and for all.

          Iraq

          And I'll be a president who ends this war in Iraq and finally brings our troops home...

          foreign and domestic issues

          ... who restores our moral standing, who understands that 9/11 is not a way to scare up votes but a challenge that should unite America and the world against the common threats of the 21st century. Common threats of terrorism and nuclear weapons, climate change and poverty, genocide and disease.

          Sorry you missed them.

          There are no unimportant states, only uninspiring candidates.

          by nightsweat on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:29:12 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I DID Miss Them (0+ / 0-)

            That's what happens when you lead with a rah-rah cheer.

            You seem to forget that most folks don't read speeches.  They watch them, at best, more likely only hear a very brief soundbyte.

            And when I listened to Obama's speech--at a blogger/Drinking Liberally event in Santa Monica--the only speech that came across as predominantly substantive was Edwards.

            Look, I'm not anti-Obama.  I am pro holding these bastards accountable for everything they've done to our country.  And you don't have to call them dirty names to do it.  All you have to do is tell the truth.

            LOUDLY.

            •  You might try watching Obama's speeches (0+ / 0-)

              with closed captioning. It might help you to follow what he's saying.

              Look, I don't mean to be rude or snarky. You asserted that Obama doesn't talk about issues in his speeches. Another commenter took the time to document that this is factually incorrect.

              Your next complaint essentially boils down to the fact that you don't understand what Obama is saying, either because you're drinking and talking at the time, or only listening to a soundbyte.

              I don't think anyone can help you with that problem but yourself.

          •  nightsweat: (0+ / 0-)

            Thanks.

            If you look at McCain's Texas speech today, you could make what has a similar 'look-and-feel' to the uninitiated.

            We have our work cut out for us.

            Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

            by LNK on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:13:55 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  What is the most important issue? (0+ / 0-)

          A great list of things to do to improve the world doesn't matter when everyone is at each others throats. We face Armageddon because of hate mongers like Hagee. The most "concrete" thing that can be done now for any "real" change to occur in the world is to let go of each others throats first.

        •  apparently (0+ / 0-)

          your ability to count is as, shall we say, challenged as Hillary Clinton's.

          There is still hope, though. You can learn.

    •  It is only fair (0+ / 0-)

      Hannity and others continue to beat up on Obama for his church affiliation trying to link him to Farrakhan's past statements and also pushing statements made by his minister, such as after 9/11, Rev. Williams said that 9/11 was the result of "violent American policies" so Obama gets excoriated for the statement.

  •  IOKIYAR (5+ / 0-)

    Besides Hagee's white, not some "scary" black like Farakkahn.

    If Hillary Clinton wins, the Democratic Party loses.

    by Paleo on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:04:59 AM PST

    •  Or one of those lowlife bloggers (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mkfarkus

      There was another campaign that took a lot of heat awhile back, over what a pair of bloggers working for the campaign said.

      "If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." - General George Patton

      by Hannibal on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:17:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Paging Tim Russert! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah

    If Hillary Clinton wins, the Democratic Party loses.

    by Paleo on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:05:15 AM PST

  •  Taste the Straight Talk. (5+ / 0-)

    Mmmmmmmmmm.  

    An agnostic not because I don't know if there's a God, but because I don't care.

    by filmgeek83 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:07:09 AM PST

  •  I am sick (16+ / 0-)

    of these supposed religious people attacking Catholics, I am a catholic AND a proud Democrat, and am part of the CatholicDemocrat.org movement.  

    Catholics do NOT automatically vote for the GOP, as a matter of fact I believe a majority vote Democratic, and with help from Hagee we may well win even more CAtholics this election.

    Hopefully this Thursday our group will be chartered by the local party, our NEW Catholic Democrats of Silicon Valley club!  Wooo hooo!

    It just makes me sick the way the media ignores the hate from the far right, and then somehow claims the left is godless....sigh.

    Have left overs? Visit my new blog http://leftovermagic.blogspot.com/ for ideas on how to create new recipes from left overs.

    by SanJoseLady on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:08:19 AM PST

    •  Well, they wouldn't attack you if . . . (9+ / 0-)

      . . . if you didn't worship idols and set-up the Pope as Anti-Christ.

      I mean, the Pro-Bombing Women's Clinics wing of the RCC is o.k., I suppose, but the Peace Wing is just plain crazy and, even worse, liberal.

      BenTestifyin'Goshi
      __________________________________________________

      I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do.

      by BenGoshi on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:14:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  silly me (8+ / 0-)

        somehow I keep forgetting to find out who Jesus would torture ; )

        I am a Democrat mainly because of my religion, ie, love thy neighbor, help others, and for the life of me can't understand how ANY catholic can be a Goper, and how ANYONE can trust the likes of a Hagee who has more hate in him then love...sigh.

        Have left overs? Visit my new blog http://leftovermagic.blogspot.com/ for ideas on how to create new recipes from left overs.

        by SanJoseLady on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:22:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Love thy neighbor"?! "Help others"?! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SanJoseLady, LNK

          Sounds like a load of bleeding-heart, lib, claptrap.

          You'd never catch Jesus advocating such anti-Christian hooey!

          BenGoshi
          _____________________________________________________

          P.S. -


          Matthew 25:31-46

          "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory.  All the nations will be assembled before him and he will separate men one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats.  He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.  Then the King will say to those on his right hand, 'Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take for your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.  For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was thirsty and you gave me drink; I was a stranger and you made me welcome; naked and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me.'  Then the virtuous will say to him in reply, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink?  When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome; naked and clothe you; sick or in prison and go to see you.'  And the King will answer, 'I tell you solemnly, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me.'  Next he will say to those on his left hand, 'Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me.'  Then it will be their turn to ask, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or naked, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?' Then he will answer, 'I tell you solemnly, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me.'  And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life."

          bg

          I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do.

          by BenGoshi on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:30:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  And they do sell their children...... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BenGoshi, SecondComing

        ....for whiskey money. Don't forget that.

    •  The people McCain is worried about (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Belvedere Come Here Boy

      are the conservative Catholics who used to vote Democratic but became "Reagan Democrats" in the 80's and eventually Republican.

      (- 4.63, - 5.18) Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is. --Winston Churchill

      by mkfarkus on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:21:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hagee is equal opportunity hater (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drmah, Belvedere Come Here Boy

      so don't feel bad; while he claims to love the Jews, any Jew who disagrees with his view of Greater Israel or with the political consequences of his religious views can't go to Heaven.
      While he believes in a Dual Covenant (which is blasphemy from a Christian point of view), Jews who disagree with him still burn in Hell.

      Now as far as the Arabs, they are impediments, the sooner removed the better (not genocide? No, urban renewal). Hagee is an egocentric opportunist.  

  •  Ask Louis Farakkan (5+ / 0-)

    I bet we could get a similar message from Louis Farakkan, stating that he is shocked--SHOCKED--that he could be mischaracterized.

    Funny thing.  The press will believe and publicize Hagee, but not Farakken.

    Why not, I wonder?

    Flag lapel pins? Since when did we become a nation of bling warriors?

    by NCJan on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:09:04 AM PST

  •  asdf (3+ / 0-)

    The press never asks McCain or Clinton questions like that. Only Obama.

    * 3972 * http://icasualties.org/oif/

    by BDA in VA on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:09:05 AM PST

  •  Lie down with mongrels... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    khughes1963

    Project Rescue types in the church have supported so many wacked out "allies" over the years that you really shouldn't surprised by this.

    Somehow the Just War Doctrine and the Bulls on caring for the sick and needy aren't quite as infallible as the pro-life position to alot of these people.

    Whatever beliefs Donohue and co hold, they're not in line with most of the modern church.

    So there you go folks, welcome to your new friends, they still despise you. Which, speaking as a fellow catholic, I can kind of understand.

    Here's hoping they happily refight the thirty years war all the way till November.

    Grunge is still in... right?

    by Windowdog on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:09:28 AM PST

  •  I notice (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JML9999, Belvedere Come Here Boy

    Hagee said his wife 'comes from a Catholic family' not that she is Catholic.  Presumably then she's converted over to some other flavour of Xtianity than Catholic, possibly whatever version Hagee claims?

    Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

    by drbloodaxe on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:09:49 AM PST

  •  He Meant :"Whore" In A GOOD Way--Ala Julia Roberts (10+ / 0-)
    I mean, he did call the Catholic Church "the great whore," right?

    Not "the cheap whore," or "the two-bit whore" or "the crack whore."

    That's the great thing about America.  People can excel at anything. Whatever they do best.

    Churches, too.

  •  Guess What? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gorette, JML9999, JeffW

    This "man of God" doesn't like homosexuals, either. I caught part of his shtick while channel surfing a couple of years back, and I had to fight the urge to upchuck.

    •  He is one of the all-time great ickky tv (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SecondComing

      preachers. Gives me the creeps. Have you ever seen him preaching in front of the mile-wide maps of the mideast talking about the coming wars? He and Bush reside in their own universe. And they are welcome to it, just keep it out of our politics, please. I don't think McCain buys it but uses it, disgracefully. What else is new?

      Thank God the Democrats won control of the Senate... otherwise, think of how different everything would be. -G.Greenwald

      by Gorette on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:28:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  He also blamed Jewish people for their own (0+ / 0-)

      persecution (holocaust) because they denied christ. And he wants to bomb Iran to speed up Armageddon. The guy is crazy.

      You know, I rather like this God fellow. He's very theatrical. A little pestilence here, a plague there... Omnipotence...got to get me some of that.

      by ryan81 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:51:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I bet Hagee even has a black friend. (7+ / 0-)

    This guy's some kind of open-minded.  I bet he taught Karl Rove how to rap, and, one time, even shot off a Roman candle on the Fourth of July.

    Oh, and by the way, the Jews are all going to roast in hell if they don't convert.  Fyi.

    DobsonGoshi
    _____________________________________________________

    I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do.

    by BenGoshi on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:10:53 AM PST

  •  I Am Reminded of "The Onion" Headline (7+ / 0-)

    "Pope Calls for Greater Unity Between Catholics; Hellbound"

    Religious people never have to hate anybody or be anti-anybody.  They just point out that the all-knowing, all-seeing, all powerful mouse in their pocket simultaneously hates everything they hate and loves everything they love.  Oh and also loves everything even the stuff he hates.  And also controls everything except the stuff he loves even though he hates it.  Oh and also has infinite mercy and supports capital punishment.

    Also He opposes flag burning.

    Hillary's aggressive campaign has her supporters wearing Boxers. McCain Supporters? Depends. As for me, I'll take a Barack Strap.

    by TooFolkGR on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:11:26 AM PST

  •  Of course he hates Catholics (12+ / 0-)

    I always thought Catholics were Christians until I moved to the Bible Belt and found out from a bunch of Hagee followers that Catholics were a hell bound cult that worshipped idols.

    Christian music stores won't carry a CD of religious music if it has the Ave Maria on it.

    When the Pope died remember the church that posted a sign that said "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope."

    Catholics and Jews who get in bed with these folks are fooling themselves.  

    If you want something other than the obvious to happen - you've got to do something other than the obvious...Douglas Adams

    by trillian on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:13:07 AM PST

    •  Just like Croats and Serbs are still fighting (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mkfarkus, Hannibal

      a 600-year-old war, the descendants of Border Protestants are still carrying out the Reformation.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk." --Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:15:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are reminding me that when I was a kid (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Belvedere Come Here Boy

      that's how it was in Cleveland, Ohio. Yep, we protestants thought the Catholics were wierd with their sinful "idols." We had to walk past the Catholic church on the way to school each day and would always prefer the other side of the street!

      I'm ashamed of the way I bought that but I was a child and there was lots of ignorance. I learned. When I traveled in Europe many years later I learned to really appreciate the Catholic faith in visiting cathedrals, falling in love with them, and even participating in services such as at Notre Dame in Paris.

      Thank God the Democrats won control of the Senate... otherwise, think of how different everything would be. -G.Greenwald

      by Gorette on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:34:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  someone should probably let you know (0+ / 0-)

        The priest snuck some of the body of christ in to the eucharist tablets.  Technically only catholics are allowed to partake, but we secretly encourage others.  It's our way of performing stealth conversions.

        Either all of your sins are now forgiven or your destined to eternal hellfire depending on whether you listen to Bigot Benedict or Bigot Hagee.

        BTW did you cross yourself with water from the baptismal font?

  •  Evangelicals are anti-Catholic, anti-Jew (8+ / 0-)

    That's the whole point of being fundamentalist - since you're the only one that is right, everybody else is wrong and wrong in a big way.

    Catholics are damned to hell for all sorts of reasons.

    Jews are dead meat - they're all going to perish in fire in the end times unless they convert to Christianity.

    If McCain is bending over to sell out to the fundies, then he's supporting a hate movement.

    We're pro-choice on everything! - Libertarian slogan

    by CA Libertarian on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:14:03 AM PST

    •  a few reasons they can't stand Catholics (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CA Libertarian

      Catholics don't take the Bible literally; we say it's inspired. However, there's nowhere in the Bible that says you just need the Bible alone, LOL.

      We say evolution's okay as long as we believe God created from the start and that man is a special creation (how he got there??? but we say God wanted it to happen however it did happen).

      Plus Protestants have their own problems regarding Hitler, see my post on Einstein and Gilbert below.

      •  Revelation 22:18 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Belvedere Come Here Boy

        This is what is commonly used to strike down Catholic, Mormon, Christian Science, and other "additions" to the Bible.

        I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

        But more to the point of what I wanted to say, which is that your username totally rocks.  A great cartoon.

        We're pro-choice on everything! - Libertarian slogan

        by CA Libertarian on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:34:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Sola fide, Sola Scriptura, Sola gratia (0+ / 0-)

        By faith alone, by Scripture alone, by grace alone.  Closely held tenets of 16th century (and later) Protestantism.

        (- 4.63, - 5.18) Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is. --Winston Churchill

        by mkfarkus on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:45:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  isn't the Rapture from the 1850s though? (0+ / 0-)

          IIRC, it came out of some English Bible thumper's head. I could wiki it but I'm bored.

          Some fundie preachers are very anti-Dispensationalist because of this and see this as an innovation.

          So in a sense, some think the Rapture folks are innovators, which doesn't go over well in hard-core literalists.

          •  I thought it was round about 1870 (0+ / 0-)

            in Austria by a spiritualist who discovered the secret biblical codes. I could misremember but the whole Tribulationalist thing is not that old and is rooted in the spiritualism of the Gilded Age.

            I confess I am too tired to Google it as well; these days that start at 3AM have a tendency to seem long.

          •  The Rapture is not one of the five Fundamentals (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Belvedere Come Here Boy

            The fundamentals are

            (1) Literal inerrancy of the Bible (the originals of each scriptural book);

            (2) the virgin birth and deity of Christ;

            (3) the substitutionary view of the atonement; (i.e. by substituting for us on the Cross, Christ atoned for the sins of humankind)

            (4) the bodily resurrection of Christ;

            (5) The imminent return of Christ.

            The rapture was part of the Millenarian movement of the 19th century.

            (- 4.63, - 5.18) Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is. --Winston Churchill

            by mkfarkus on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:16:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Having known quite a few fundies, I can tell you (0+ / 0-)

      that they think Catholics are the devil incarnate for the large part. Jews however they think are God's "Chosen People" and cut them a little more slack for it.

      •  You really need to read the fine print (3+ / 0-)

        Jews are God's chosen people but still condemned to hell unless they accept Jesus Christ in the end.

        Here's how Christian Zionist thinking really works.

        In order for the End Times to play out, Israel has to be "restored".  That means unconditional unannexation of the West Bank and Gaza.  Remember when fundies got all bent out of shape when Sharon "gave away" Gaza?  He was spoiling their party.

        So anyway, for Israel to be restored, we have to support its security.  That means fighting wars to shore up its right flank (Syria) - which means taking out Saddam Hussein.  You never wonder why there are so many former Likud lobbyists (e.g. Perle, Feith, Wurmser) in the Bush Pentagon establishment?

        And - hey - if we destabilize the region and contribute to the development of WMD programs in other countries, that's just fine, since it's essential to the grand Armageddon plan.  This is all about self-fulfilling prophesy.

        At any rate, the rest is anti-climactic.

        Rapture.

        Big war.  Everybody dies.

        Jews perish in fire, except for 100,000 or so who accept Jesus Christ.

        Jesus returns.  Roll credits.

        It's really quite insane.

        That's why fundies like Jews.  There is no other reason other than the pursuit of their own morally bankrupt theology.

        We're pro-choice on everything! - Libertarian slogan

        by CA Libertarian on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:47:35 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  even the KKK accepts Catholics now (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        drmah

        due to declining enrollments but have resisted efforts by Jews to join.

    •  And... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Belvedere Come Here Boy

      And they're anti-People's-Front-of-Judea.

      Splitters!

    •  Apparently he likes Jews (2+ / 0-)

      Read this:

        BORN WITH A YARMULKE OR BORN AGAIN?

         If just the above were all that could be reported on John Hagee, some might say there should not be major concern and there probably would not be. So what that he is divorced, a promoter of word-faith teaching and its proponents, and a slick marketeer for religious goods and products? So what that he showed insensitivity to African-Americans? It can all be overlooked since he helps so many and sends so much money to Israel, not to mention his contesting the service and fees of the U.S. Postal Service.

         Yet, of additional and more serious concern is that Hagee reported to the Houston Chronicle that he believes that Jews already have a covenant with God and a relationship to God and do not need to come to the cross. Hearing this is startling. Hagee told the newspaper:

            "I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption."9

         This certainly is a shocking statement in the light of Jesus’ words that "no man comes to the Father but through me" (John 14:6). John further writes, in his first Epistle: "He who does not have the Son of God does not have life" (1 John 5:12).

         The Apostle Paul, as well, would say the opposite of Hagee: "I do not set aside the grace of God: for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain" (Galatians 2:21). Paul is affirming that nothing that the Old Testament offered could avail apart from the death of Jesus.

         The Houston Chronicle article further reported:

            "John Hagee, fundamentalist pastor from San Antonio and friend of Israel, is truly a strange fish. ... The man has a mission. He’s out to attack anti-Semitism. He also believes that Jews can come to God without going through Jesus Christ."10

         The Houston newspaper then quoted Hagee’s own shocking words: "I’m not trying to convert the Jewish people to the Christian faith."

         And further revealed:

            "In fact, trying to convert Jews is a ‘waste of time,’ he said. ‘The Jewish person who has his roots in Judaism is not going to convert to Christianity. There is no form of Christian evangelism that has failed so miserably as evangelizing the Jewish people. They (already) have a faith structure.’ Everyone else, whether Buddhist or Baha’i, needs to believe in Jesus, he says. But not Jews. Jews already have a covenant with God that has never been replaced by Christianity, he says."11

         Hagee went on to tell the Houston reporter that Paul abandoned the idea of Jews knowing Christ when he went to the Gentiles. Jewish evangelism, both presently and in antiquity, is not a failure as Hagee stated but a huge success as many missions and missionaries can report.

         Christian Research Institute has also reported on this highly unorthodox view held by Hagee:

            "Information about Hagee from other sources reveals he seriously differs with the vast majority of dispensational teachers because he believes that Jewish people do not need to be saved, since they are under a different covenant."12

         THE MYSTERY DEEPENS AND THE PLOT THICKENS

         In response to a direct inquiry by PFO director M. Kurt Goedelman to Hagee, Goedelman received a puzzling response. Hagee claimed in a carefully nuanced letter dated June 18, 1998, that the Houston Chronicle had distorted what he said and went on further to assert, "I have not or never have been dual covenant in my preaching."

         In this, Hagee is being less than honest and playing word games. As this article will demonstrate, Hagee’s true view is a muddled form of the "Two Covenant" or "Dual Covenant" theory, even though he would deny the label.

         It should be noted that Hagee said in his reply only that he has not been dual covenant "in my preaching." His statement did not address whether he believed or taught it, but only that it was not in his preaching. Perhaps in saying he never preached dual covenant he is right, and adds to the subterfuge by not labeling the belief with that exact title. In fact, though, his is a nuanced "Two Covenant" view as his own words will confirm. His response to Goedelman, therefore, closely resembles that of a seasoned politician.

         But Hagee has, in his own words, affirmed and elucidated his view of some Jews having salvation without Christ and, in fact, the Houston Chronicle presented a nearly correct version of his position...

      His support of Zionism could be tied to the praying for massive apocalypse in the Middle East. (Read about following the coded messages.) He was on Daystar's pledge drive yesterday talking about giving a dollar for Israel and how it will be rewarded by God. I have seen him on his Sunday show wearing Jewish attire when sermonizing the prophesy of the Middle East and Israel.

      In recent years, he hosted a show with his doctor promoting the "Creator's Diet." This guy is a Judaizer that the Apostle Paul warned Christians to avoid in his Epistles.

      Declare independence from Great Britain. Use SI instead. U.S. Metric Association www.metric.org

      by movingforward on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:46:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, that settles the matter. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenGoshi, Hannibal

    The media will no longer ask any quetsions about this. Because, well, he's a white, Chcistian wingnut and McCain supporter.

  •  I don't expect much from the press (4+ / 0-)

    I remember the Edwards flap, when those two bloggers who worked for him were given all kinds of shit over a few statements they'd made. The press were all over him and the bloggers. But when a well known and influential pastor hatemonger endorses McVain? Oh, then it's time to be civil, and treat the involved parties with kid gloves.

    Mustn't speak ill of St. McCain, or evangelical bigots. That might make Republicans upset, and we can't have that.

    "If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking." - General George Patton

    by Hannibal on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:15:14 AM PST

  •  We have always been at war with Eastasia. (8+ / 0-)

    If Hagee isn't anti-Catholic, then Farrakhan isn't anti-Semitic.

    He thinks he can just "un-say" things and make it the truth. Well, I'm calling No Backsies!

    If McShame doesn't repudiate this disgusting man immediately, he can count on a massive Catholic outpouring of Obama support come November.

    On the other hand, if he does, he's going to further alienate evangelical Republicans and make the deep south competitive for Obama.

    And, you know, I can live with that.

    "...And I woulda got away with it, if it hadn't been for that meddling Kos!" ---attributed to Tom DeLay

    by AdmiralNaismith on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:16:06 AM PST

    •  Big JohnMcbush..Between iraq and a hard place... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AdmiralNaismith, drmah

      It's OK John, you can kiss the Pope's,ah, ah ring when he comes into thre Big Apple in his Pope Mobile..And then Big John Reverend Hageees and Moon will need to to 10 Hale Maries and 5 Our Fathers..Thus, All is forgiven and Go forth and sin no more...Kiss my ....!

      "Better a little late, than a little never"..Doctor Julian Winston

      by Johnny Rapture on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:32:55 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Einstein & Sir Martin Gilbert refutes Hagee (9+ / 0-)

    Let's see what a knighted historian who's an expert says:

    Asked if this meant he agreed with the Vatican's 1998 declaration on the Holocaust ("We Remember") that "hundreds of thousands" of Jews were rescued under Pins XII, Gilbert replied that if that estimate was meant to include the entire wartime Catholic Church, including the Vatican, the clergy, religious and the laity, the answer was, "Yes, that is certainly correct. Hundreds of thousands of Jews saved by the entire Catholic Church, under the leadership, and with the support of, Pope Plus XII--would, to my mind, be absolutely correct."

    And of course there's Einstein who said in Time magazine:

    Being a lover of freedom, when the Nazi revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced.  Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom: but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks.  Only the Catholic Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing the truth.  I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom.  I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly.  

  •  as a Catholic, I'll make it very clear (10+ / 0-)

    to my Catholic relatives, friends and neighbors that John McCain embraced, thanked and welcomed Hagee support.  A man who has called me and my religion a whore and much, much worse.

    "You may be on the right track, but if you sit still, you'll get run over" Will Rogers

    by gaspare on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:17:55 AM PST

  •  this is a dead end issue because... (6+ / 0-)

    Fundamentalists and evangelicals have known for 20 years or so, which covers most of their "recorded" history, that they have to be very very careful with their anti-catholicism as well as their praying for massive apocalypse in the Middle East.

    Fundamentalist and Evangelical Protestants indisputably have a deep history of those things, it really is part of their "heritage" theology and eschatology.  But none of the top guys recently are stupid enough to leave too much of a smoking gun laying around.

    They speak in code they can then deny and re-interpret  as benign to us heathen.

    ttg

    •  That's OK - All religion believe that all the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wader, Hannibal

      followers of all other religions are going to hell.

      -6.5, -7.59. Is there a hyphen in anal retentive?

      by DrWolfy on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:22:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "Great whore" and "false cult" = (3+ / 0-)

      smoking gun. Am I missing something here?

      Re-elect Bush. Vote for McCain.

      by Red Bean on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:26:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Red Bean

        Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight.

        by JeffW on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:33:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  not the atom bomb, but keep bringing it up until (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        khughes1963, Red Bean

        he does. And the more press coverage, the more McCain hems and haws, the more it filters down to the average Catholic who, never having heard of Hagee, might be a middle of the roader or even conservative disposed to McCain.

        THEN he hears this stuff and it's drilled into his brain.  And McCain should not be allowed to give the half-ass apologies he's used to and the lame excuses for flip-flopping.

        He should get a finger waved in his face until he answers. Then he'll crumble, then he'll be the story for awhile as he tries to make amends. Thus Mr Straight Talk has another flip flop on his record.

        It's time to blow the moderate Catholics/Reagan Democrats & the GOP apart.

    •  Actually only about 20% of history (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Belvedere Come Here Boy

      Fundamentalism from which the conservative evangelicals derive most of their beliefs grew out of the Evangelical revival of the late 19th century and from Lyman Stewart's book, The Fundamentals published in 1909.

      However you're right in terms of their political lifr.  Most fundamentalist abstained from politics until the 80's because they wanted to keep themselves "unspotted from the world."  Thus 100% of their political history.  I wish they'd go back to being unspotted.

      (- 4.63, - 5.18) Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is. --Winston Churchill

      by mkfarkus on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:50:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  this is silly, imo. (0+ / 0-)

    McCain is not anti-Catholic. the election will eventually be fought and won over the votes of independents.  this type of argument will hurt Clinton or Obama in that setting.  Just like the right will be damaged when they try to say Obama supports Farakhan, or is a Muslim, or whatever foolish example you want to give.

    •  No. You are wrong. It is different. McCain (0+ / 0-)

      embraces Hagee.

      Obama does not embrace Farakhan. ect...

      Thank God the Democrats won control of the Senate... otherwise, think of how different everything would be. -G.Greenwald

      by Gorette on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:39:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Endorsement (0+ / 0-)

        I have read that Farakhan praised Obama, but did not "endorse"...I don't remember where I read that....I read in an Juan Cole article(dated 2/27/08) concerning names......."Barack" comes from "bawrak" a semitic word used many times in the Bible...Meaning is "to bless..blessing"..."Hussein" is also semitic(very common) which comes from "hasa"...meaning "good, or handsome"...Also, John Mccain adopted a daughter from Bangledesh(sic)...Do you think she has Muslim relatives????So John Mc. is related by way of adoption to her relatives....Informed Comment is Cole's website...I am not familiar in how to put link....Just a little sidebar......

      •  It's just not effective, (0+ / 0-)

        I'll stick with my position that this approach to the upcoming political race will backfire--and I mean for both sides.  I don't think they'll be effective in tarring Obama, nor will we be effective in tarring McCain.  The race will be run based on clear distinctions in issues--and obviously there are very clear distinctions; and a judgement on who can most effectively put together coalitions and achieve goals.  

        So please, let's find out exactly which beliefs McCain doesn't endorse.  Is it Hagee's past statements about Catholics?

        Why pick up the Hannity play book?

    •  As a Jew I know that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hester, Belvedere Come Here Boy

      Farrakhan's endorsement will make some (not all) Jews uneasy. I don't see why Hagee's endorsement wouldn't have the same effect on some Catholics (and there are a lot more Catholics in this country than Jews).

      Re-elect Bush. Vote for McCain.

      by Red Bean on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:41:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  See if McCain and his surrogates push Farrakhan (0+ / 0-)

      at Obama; that is all Hannity can talk about now.

  •  I will never, ever (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hannibal

    understand the Anti-Catholic sentiment.  Sure, I don't agree with a lot of their teachings, but that's why I'm not Catholic.  I think I can disagree with their dogma without calling the entire belief system a "great whore."

    Also, love the continued McCain-style "straight talk."

    Easy is right. ~Chuang Tzu

    by Anjana on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:22:26 AM PST

  •  Please forgive OT -- excellent FISA diary (0+ / 0-)

    Not ready to give up on FISA?

    Packerland progressive explains how Rep. Louise Slaughter can stop or enable telecom immunity.

    Fox News--We distort; you watch, self-satisfied. We misreport; you witness liberticide. We sport with truth; liberals apply vermicide.

    by Cowalker on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:23:45 AM PST

  •  I'm sure Hagee thinks he's not prejudiced. (6+ / 0-)

    He reminds me of a prof at Regent University, the Pat Robertson School of World Conquest, who bragged in a news article a decade ago that the school had "Christians and Catholics, too."  I'm sure he thought he was showing his own lack of bias.

  •  I thought front pagers only attack fellow dems !! (0+ / 0-)

    You know, evil racist corrupt DLC Lieberdem bastards that have dedicated their entire adult lives to serving the Democratic party (especially that redneck racist whore monger guy who's the only democrat elected to the presidency since 1980!).
    I love this new "attack Republicans" rule!!!  Keep it up !

    Oprah? Nah, I'm voting however Jerry Springer tells me to.

    by Barry in MIA on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:24:40 AM PST

  •  Right-wing extremist hypocrites? (0+ / 0-)

    I'm shocked.

    SHOCKED.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:34:12 AM PST

  •  More relevant, which of Hagee's views DOES McCain (0+ / 0-)

    endorse?  Anything aside from abortion and gay marriage (i.e., the obvious pandering points)?

  •  I realize (0+ / 0-)

    that Republicans and conservatives in particular are committed to the proposition that everything they do and think is somebody else's fault, but Democrats don't believe that.  So, the suggestion that McCain is somehow tarnished by the attitudes of his supporters is really beneath us.

    At best, McCain proves once again that he's not particular about his friends and associates.  But we already know that.
    What could be less principled than making nice with a fellow who's slandered you through your adopted daughter?

    How do you tell a predator from a protector? The predator will eat you sooner rather than later.

    by hannah on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:42:30 AM PST

  •  McLiar, McLiar, McPants on fire. :P (nt) (0+ / 0-)

    This time it's personal.

    by apostrophe on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:43:33 AM PST

  •  Is Mean Old John.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..the Republicans' "throwaway candidate?"

    Do the bigwigs and insiders and corporate backers even give him a shot in hell at winning the White House?

    Oops. Almost forgot. He might get to run against Hillary Clinton.

    Nevermind.

    For the first time in 40 years, we have a potential Democratic candidate that one would hope would transform "politics as usual" into something better. Something uniquely American in the best sense of the word.

    John Edwards

    /snark

    Exiting the Constitutional Convention - when asked "What government do we have?" Benjamin Franklin replied: A Republic, if you can keep it.

    by SecondComing on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:43:38 AM PST

  •  I feel a Donohue v. Hagee debate coming on! (2+ / 0-)

    The only thing better would be if BOTH endorsed McCain before unleashing the crazy.

    •  the Dems WANT a Donohue v. Hagee debate (0+ / 0-)

      And whatever you think he says on other matters, Donahue will destroy Hagee, as I posted about Sir Martin Gilbert and Einstein on the Church's role during WWII.

      Hagee wouldn't be arguing against Donahue as much as a knighted historian and Albert Einstein.

      Now THAT would be fun.

  •  My dog (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrostyKotex, paintitblue

    ..is a member of the Church of the Fish Shaped Formally Cat Food Bowl. I'm not absolutely sure, but I think she worships me once in a while too.

    The apostate bitch!

    Religion and politics mix alnost as well as do wine and beer.

    Exiting the Constitutional Convention - when asked "What government do we have?" Benjamin Franklin replied: A Republic, if you can keep it.

    by SecondComing on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 09:54:19 AM PST

  •  I don't see how this is fair. (0+ / 0-)

    You lambast McCain for getting endorsed by a bigot, and yet defend Obama when he's associated with a bigot?

  •  For a Good Time, Call... (3+ / 0-)

    Hagee has a very vociferous history of Anti-Catholicism; he refers to the Church as "The Anti-Christ" and "The Whore of Rome". He denounces the Church for 800 years of tyranny and depravity. (Why not 1300 years of abominations? Hagee apparently does not recognize the Church-sponsored Gregorian Calendar, so he refuses to recognize any year after 1582.)

    Of course, the Mainstream Media have demonstrated their usual diligence, demanding to know which side Barak Obama would have preferred in the Crusades. This diversion leaves the McCain campaign the chance to come up with a pleasant explanation for Rev. Hagee’s colorful opinions. I imagine it will be this...

    "The Whore of Rome" is really a compliment. Whom would you find more appealing? The Whore of Rome, the Tart of Canterbury, the Trollop of Geneva, or the Real Friendly Waitress of Salt Lake City? Would you want to go to a Methodist orgy? Trust me, you’d only attend a Jewish orgy for the food. If you think that religions are synonymous with brothels, wouldn’t you prefer a bordello decorated by Michelangelo and Raphael? (The Protestant idea of art is Tiffany lamps!) Yes, 800 years may be a little old for a whore, but Italians age well. Who would be your septagenarian fantasy: Sophia Loren or Judy Dench?

    So, Rev. Hagee could have been praising the Catholic Church for its extrovert charm. And, if he wasn’t, the Right Reverend is just jealous.

  •  Definition...and Action suggestion.... (0+ / 0-)

    and please do, if you have talent and time, make flyers to send to prospective voters.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    And, about that 'whore' reference which actually dates back to the edition of the Bible brought to America by the Pilgrims:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:11:57 AM PST

  •  For a good time, Jesus' General (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    khughes1963

    http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/

    He does the best snark about hypocritical Christians.

    Keep an eye on his blog.....

    Best Diary of the Year? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/23/03912/3990

    by LNK on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:23:18 AM PST

  •  Make Sean Hannity answer this too (0+ / 0-)

    Sean's made a fool of himself, trying to defend Giuliani, so what does Suckass think of his boy McCain on this?

    •  keep working, take mod RCs and Jews away from GOP (0+ / 0-)

      Hammer this, and then hammer McCain's soon to come waffling.

      Whenever these wingnuts would spring up, they'd have to backtrack. Hagee's lame excuse should be made harshly explicit so he doesn't get off the hook.

      E.g., make him answer my post above with quotes from Martin Gilbert and Einstein.

      If he does, he's shamed for pushing lies and has to recant.

      If he doesn't, he looks like a fool being put up against them.

      There's a lot people slough off because they basically agree with a candidate, but having your Church called a whore and Jewish folks having to die in the Rapture etc seems like a winner to pry these guys out.....how much before these groups say, "I basically agree politically on some stuff there, but this is just way too crazy for me finally."

    •  Hannity's church (0+ / 0-)

      Hannity has made a big deal out of Obama's church so does anyone know where he is a member?
      Could be interesting.

      •  he's RC but has been attacked by RCs for (0+ / 0-)

        his bloviating on Giuliani and abortion and birth control.

        Apparently wanted Giuliani to win it so badly that he said, basically, that his Church was wrong to criticize Giuliani. But it's okay to go after Dems. He was called out on that.

        I think I heard a story that a few orthodox Catholics starting blogging and attacking him on his site, and he has since banned all such posts and won't talk about it.

  •  Hagee is anti Christ (0+ / 0-)
    He hates Christ, what He taught, and what He stands for.

    Illegitimus non carborundum

    by azureblue on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:53:16 AM PST

  •  Back in 2000 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Belvedere Come Here Boy

    I have a signed copy of John McCain’s "Faith of My Fathers" at home.  He signed it "To a great Democrat for McCain." in 2000 after the GOP debate at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, MI, while yucking it up with Tim Russert at a post debate party.  Right around that time I had become Catholic myself.  So now this Hagee thing comes up.  I’m trying to think what to do with the book now that McCain has aligned himself with a man who considers my Catholic wife, daughter, and sons whores.  Suggestions?

  •  Hagee (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Belvedere Come Here Boy

    Joe Conason just published a column about McCain's acceptance of Hagee's endorsement compared to Obama's rejection of Farrakhan's endorsement.  The link is Here

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