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Senator Obama, the Kos community, Kos himself, myself, have rightly been upset over Geraldine Ferraro's racially insensitive comments.  Now it's Reverend Wright's turn:

Follow Me:

The things he says speak for themselves, plain ugly. In my opinion, more divisive than anything Ferraro said.  

Now here is the question, I've heard a few people claim it doesn't matter because Obama's camp has said:

"Senator Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they’re offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church," said Bill Burton, a campaign spokesman.

Or, Because, he has no official role in campaign...

BUT, he is no mere Reverand speaking from the pulpit, this from the Obama campaign's own press release:

CHARLESTON, S.C. –U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign today unveiled its African American Religious Leadership Committee at both the national and statewide levels.

Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.*
Senior Pastor
Trinity United Church of Christ
Chicago, IL
Senator Barack Obama's Pastor

*Endorsements from religious leaders are extended in their personal capacity, and not on behalf of any house of worship, organization or denomination.

Dated Dec, 2007

Now... where can you spot the problems?

A. He should resign from such committee, or if it is not active, the Campaign should imediately rebuke his position according to this press release.

B. His sermon was given in the house of worship, potentially breaking the law, and repealing Trinity United Church of Christ's tax exempt status.

Now some on here may question my motives to posting this story, as I am an HRC supporter.  But I post this to say that we should not stand for hypocrisy from either campaign, and that both campaigns can be held accountable for what they do with those officialy in in the campaign.

I'm not here trying to smear Obama's religion, or his Church. I'm here trying to apply one standard, and to put pressure on Obama to repudiate Wright's statements forcefully, as well as his position on campaign.  

This isn't only in the interest of the primary, the General Election is equally important to me, no matter who the candidate is.

to quote our great leader:

It's inexcusable, and whatever Ferraro Wright says from here on out will be on Clinton's Obama's head.

Strikes Mine ;)

This is an aside from the racial standards of the campaign, but further controversial statements from Wright that feed into an already existing Obama meme, more reason why Obama should strongly repudiate Rev. Wright, IMHO:

Originally posted to rigso on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:41 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I hope my intentions (18+ / 0-)

    are clear, it's not a smear. It's an attempt at clarifying situations/pushing Obama to distance himself from Wright's and his often controversial statements, and also at applying the same standard when it comes to isses of race in this campaign...

    •  I think Wright could be Obama's sister soulja (12+ / 0-)

      moment. Obama should repudiate Wright, remove him from his committee, talk about how he will NOT stand for intolerant comments, and ask McCain to do the same as well with Hagee's offensive comments about Catholics, Jews, and women.

      What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

      by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:45:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What was offensive about the video? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ogre, LoLoLaLa

        Clue me in.

      •  really??? (0+ / 0-)

        he should do that to the man who brought him to Christianity, the man who married him, baptized his children and whose word he named his book after?
        That would show a profound lack of character and loyalty.  Of course I think he has a profound lack of character ever since he started a year ago bringing up the old Ken Starr/Larry Klayman/house managers shit against Clinton.  
        He disgusts me and dumping his closest spiritual adviser just makes it worse.

    •  Also, I wish Hillary had the opportunity (9+ / 0-)

      to use Ferraro to denounce racism, and to support Obama, but she didn't do that.

      What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

      by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:45:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, you're lying. Don't fucking use my university (9+ / 0-)

      to attack my candidate unless you're accurately citing their materials.

      Reverend Wright's name is under the following:

      A list of national and South Carolina ministers supporting Obama can be viewed by clicking the following links: South Carolina and national.

      *Endorsements from religious leaders are extended in their personal capacity, and not on behalf of any house of worship, organization or denomination.


      Contact:          Kevin Griffis   Amaya Smith

      Rev. Dr. Claude R. Alexander, Jr.
      Senior Pastor
      University Park Baptist Church
      Charlotte, NC

      Rev. Dr. Willie Barrow
      Co-founder, Rainbow PUSH Coalition

      Dr. Michael Battle
      President, Interdenominational Theological Center
      Atlanta, GA

      Bishop Dr. Arthur M. Brazier
      Senior Pastor
      Apostolic Church of God
      Chicago, IL

      The Rt. Rev. E. Lynn Brown
      Presiding Bishop, 2nd Episcopal District
      Christian Methodist Episcopal Church

      The Rev. Dr. Grainger Browning, Jr.
      Senior Pastor
      Ebenezer African Methodist Episcopal Church
      Ft. Washington, MD

      Dr. Iva E. Carruthers
      General Secretary
      Samuel DeWitt Proctor Conference

      Dean Lawrence Edward Carter
      Dean, Martin Luther King, Jr. International Chapel
      Morehouse College

      Dr. E.T. Caviness
      Greater Abyssinian Baptist Church
      Cleveland, Ohio

      Rev. Dr. Delman L. Coates
      Senior Pastor
      Mt. Ennon Baptist Church
      Clinton, MD

      Rev. Dr. Marcus D. Cosby
      Senior Pastor
      Wheeler Avenue Baptist Church
      Houston, TX

      The Rt. Rev. Philip Robert Cousin, Sr.
      Senior Bishop of the A.M.E. Church
      Presiding Bishop, Fourth Episcopal District
      African Methodist Episcopal Church

      Rev. Dr. Gerald Durley
      Senior Pastor
      Providence Missionary Baptist Church
      Atlanta, GA

      Pastor Michael Eaddy
      Senior Pastor
      People's Church of the Harvest Church of God in Christ
      Atlanta, Georgia

      Rev. Dr. Cynthia Hale
      Senior Pastor
      Ray of Hope Christian Church
      Atlanta, GA

      Rev. Dr. Freddie D. Haynes, III
      Senior Pastor
      Friendship-West Baptist Church
      Dallas, TX

      Dr. Obery M. Hendricks
      New York Theological Seminary

      Rev. Dr. Arthur L. Hilson
      Senior Pastor
      New Hope Baptist Church
      Portsmouth, NH

      Rev. Dr. John Hunter, Sr.
      Senior Pastor
      First African Methodist Episcopal Church
      Los Angeles, CA

      Rev. Dr. M.L. Jemison
      Former President, Progressive National Baptist
      Senior Pastor, St. John Missionary Baptist Church
      Oklahoma City, OK

      Rev. Dr. Charles Jenkins
      Senior Pastor
      Fellowship Missionary Baptist Church
      Chicago, IL

      Rev. Dr. Matthew Vaughn Johnson
      Senior Pastor
      Christian Fellowship Baptist Church
      Atlanta, GA

      The Rt. Rev. T. Larry Kirkland
      Presiding Bishop, 9th Episcopal District
      African Methodist Episcopal Church

      The Rev. Alvin Love
      National Baptist General State Convention of Illinois

      Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery
      Civil Rights Icon
      Founder, Former President, and Chair, Southern Christian Leadership

      Bishop Cody V. Marshall
      Presiding Bishop, Illinois Northern District
      Church of God in Christ, Inc.

      The Rt. Rev. E.  Earl McCloud
      Office of Ecumenical & Urban Affairs
      African Methodist Episcopal Church

      The Rt. Rev. Vashti Murphy McKenzie
      Presiding Bishop, 13th Episcopal District
      African Methodist Episcopal Church

      Rev. Dr. Otis Moss, Jr.
      Senior Pastor
      Olivet Institutional Baptist Church

      Rev. Otis Moss, III
      Trinity United Church of Christ
      Chicago, IL

      Rev. Dr. Craig Oliver
      Senior Pastor
      Elizabeth Baptist Church
      Atlanta, GA

      Rev. Joel R. Peebles
      Jericho City of Praise
      Landover, MD

      Rev. Bertha Perkins
      Senior Pastor, New Fellowship Baptist Church
      Manchester, NH

      Rev. Dr. Paul H. Sadler
      Senior Pastor
      Mt. Zion Congregational Church
      Cleveland, OH

      Dr. Kenneth L. Samuel
      Senior Pastor
      Victory for the World Church
      Stone Mountain, GA

      Rev. Dr. Barbara Williams Skinner
      Co-founder and President
      Skinner Leadership Institute

      Rev. Dr. T. DeWitt Smith, Jr.
      Progressive National Baptist Convention

      Rev. Dr. J. Alfred Smith
      Senior Pastor
      Allen Temple Baptist Church
      Oakland, CA

      Rev. Dr. E. Dewey Smith, Jr.
      Senior Pastor
      Greater Travelers Rest Baptist Church
      Atlanta, GA

      Rev. Dr. Susan K. Smith
      Senior Pastor
      Advent United Church of Christ
      Columbus, OH
      Rev. Edward L. Taylor
      Senior Pastor
      Emmanuel Baptist Church
      San Jose, CA

      Bishop Walter Scott Thomas
      Senior Pastor
      New Psalmist Baptist Church
      Baltimore, MD

      Rev. Dr. Frank A. Thomas
      Senior Pastor
      Mississippi Boulevard Christian Church
      Memphis, TN

      Rev. Dr. Robert Thompson
      Exeter Academy
      Exeter, NH

      Rev. Dr. Stephen John Thurston
      National Baptist Convention of America

      Bishop Larry D. Trotter
      Senior Pastor
      Sweet Holy Spirit Church
      Chicago, IL

      Rev. Albert D. Tyson, III
      Senior Pastor
      St. Stephen A.M.E. Church
      Chicago, IL

      Rev. Dr. C.T. Vivian
      Civil Rights Icon

      Pastor Lance Watson
      Senior Pastor
      The St. Paul's Baptist Church
      Richmond, VA

      Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.*
      Senior Pastor
      Trinity United Church of Christ
      Chicago, IL
      Senator Barack Obama's Pastor

      By your standards, Ann Coulter is on the Clinton campaign.

      •  Boy, the Clinton/McCain camps have lots to read! (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ogre, mayan, LoLoLaLa
      •  hmmm (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        calvinshobbes, Cyn NY, katz5, JoanH, grlpatriot

        U.S. Sen. Barack Obama’s campaign today unveiled its African American Religious Leadership Committee at both the national and statewide levels


        He is part of the national African American Religous leadership cmmittee, how am I lying?

      •  Rev. Wright was Obama's pastor for 20 years (6+ / 0-)

        The term "audacity of hope" is from a Wright sermon.  Obama originally planned on having Rev. Wright speak at the campaign kickoff in Springfield in 1/07.

        I always expected that there would be an attempt to make Rev. Wright into the Willie Horton of 2008.  While Wright, obviously, didn't rape or kill anyone, the "scary black man" meme will work now just as well as it worked 20 years ago.  When there's an AA candidate involved, and when the country has spent the past 7 years repeatedly having the pants scrared off of it, it may work even better.

        It's guilt by association, it's unfair, and it misrepresents who Obama is and what he stands for.  It's also, sadly, an issue that can prove to be seriously damaging to Obama's campaign.  I hope like hell that Axelrod prepared a contingency plan for this situation that he's dusting off right now.

        Some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not?

        by RFK Lives on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:58:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know about that. (0+ / 0-)

          It's been 20 years since the Scary Black Man meme was used, and we have made progress in racial relations since then. The best thing I know to do is to wean people off of the media as much as possible. They've shot their credibility since Judith Miller, that's for sure.

        •  Did you listen (4+ / 0-)

          to the one on the abc news website?
          He called the USA the U S of KKK A.


          I don't know about anyone else, but I damn sure ain't no klansman!!!

          A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The USA for an amount of "up to and including my life." - unknown

          by AJsMom on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:22:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, there is a lot of institutional racism. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            For instance, what about the disparate sentencing that is taking place all over the country? What about Blacks being many times more likely to get the death penalty than Whites are? What about felons not getting the right to vote after they have done their time, which disproportionately affects Blacks? Doesn't that bother you that all this is happening?

            •  This wasn't about (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              institutional raciscm.

              My post was about what he said about the USA.

              Your entire post is excusing what his pastor said.
              Racism is racism.

              Doesn't matter what the reason or excuses are for it.
              And MOST people recognize it when they see it.
              This is getting a lot of airplay and contrary to the defenders on this blog, this will NOT go over well in flyover country.

              Obama is for putting this kind of crap behind us or so I thought.
              I am offended by what he said and I view it as racism.

              A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The USA for an amount of "up to and including my life." - unknown

              by AJsMom on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:40:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, it is not. (0+ / 0-)

                It's OK to be angry at racism and the radical right-wing power structure that we are all fighting against. We are destroying ourselves thanks to our institutional racism. There is nothing wrong with saying that we are destroying ourselves or explaining how we are (military industrial complex, blowback, racism, driving while Black, etc). If we are not angry, then something is seriously wrong with us.

                •  Eternal (0+ / 0-)

                  You can keep thinking it is just the right that is racist, but I am telling you, when this gets airplay, Mr. and Mrs. Middle America are damn sure not gonna like it!
                  I live in the midwest and those that say "God Damn America" are not going to be ignored.
                  This is Obama's spiritual advisor, he is a part of his campaign and he has been his pastor for 20 years.
                  Outside of this site, this will be looked at as racist, hate speech.
                  Middle of the road people, who are not racist, will not look kindly at their country being called the "U S KKKA".
                  And because of their long association, some will feel that this is how Obama looks at things.
                  Look at how it was treated when Michelle said that for the first time she was proud of America.

                  A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to The USA for an amount of "up to and including my life." - unknown

                  by AJsMom on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 04:42:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  In light of her preacher's rhetoric is it any (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    wonder that she had never been proud of America in her adult life?  There are also several relatively disturbing quotes I've read from Senator Obama's first book, Dreams from My Father

                    "...certain whites could be excluded from the general category of our distrust"

                      "There were enough of us on campus to constitute a tribe, and when it came to hanging out many of us chose to function like a tribe, staying close together, traveling in packs," he wrote. "It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."

                      He added: "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists."

                      "I had grown accustomed, everywhere, to suspicions between the races."

                      "There was something about him that made me wary," [he wrote regarding a potential employer] "A little too sure of himself, maybe. And white."

                    DKos - Where seldom is heard, a discouraging word, or else someone will call you a troll ...

                    by kbman on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 10:16:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  The USA doesn't have to be (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eternal Hope, wader, Wizznilliam

            it has long replaced lynching with incarceration which has made America the world's leading jailer by far.

            I'm mad as Gravel, and I'm not going to take it anymore!

            by ceti on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:58:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Tipped from an Obama supporter (7+ / 0-)

      ... for the rarity of a reasonable and well-argued comment coming from an HRC supporter.

      I realize that sounds like a backhanded compliment; it isn't intended as one. I have nothing against HRC supporters; I do object to illogical arguments, baseless smears, race-baiting (on both sides!), and flat denial of reality. I wish it weren't so hard to find comments and diaries from HRC supporters that avoided these things!

    •  Nonsense. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wader, vivadissent, psilocynic

      People claiming impartiality like this when it's bullshit is getting old.

      Honestly, I don't care if it's a smear, but don't pretend it's anything but that.  People here aren't morons and, "to quote our great leader" gives you away. So quit insulting everyone's intelligence.

    •  No freakin' clue? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope

      His sermon was given in the house of worship, potentially breaking the law, and repealing Trinity United Church of Christ's tax exempt status.

      Do you have any basis for that?

      Did Wright come out and express support for or endorse a CANDIDATE?


      Then as suspected, you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

      The law prohibits partisan politics--supporting CANDIDATES--and permits churches to take stances on issues.  It's why a minister can fulminate all he wants against abortion, or decry any proposed legislation.

      Did Wright support a candidate from the pulpit or on church letterhead?  That's basically the test.

      If not, then all's well, and you're an idiot.

      "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

      by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:06:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Does Obama's plumber have a video too? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wader, Wizznilliam, VA Breeze

      How about his landscaper?  Or his dry cleaner?

      Take your shit back to Hillary is 44.  Bunch of fucking racists over there, you're even scaring away the Black Hillary supporters who can't believe how racist that place is.

      #  rigso Says:

      March 13th, 2008 at 12:46 pm

      I’ve emailed some media about Wright:

      here is the response from someone at an Atlanta newspaper:

      " Sure, be glad to. Just tell me what official campaign position this guy holds.

      You claim he has one. But every thing I find claims he does not.

      So I’d be interested in seeing you back up that claim. "

      in the original email I included the link to Obama’s press release naming Wright as part of comitee ( But I included again, hopefully his "be glad to" is honest. I know Georgia is gone, but the more media the better.

    •  I hope the Clintons disntance themselves (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope, LoLoLaLa, rigso

      from this Supreme asshat.

      Yes we can change. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can seize our future. - Barack Obama 01/26/08

      by MadAsHellMaddie on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:13:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here's another one, peddling this story to Fox (6+ / 0-)

      You and everyone over there have no shame, peddling stories to Fox and Rush Limbaugh.  

      Why does Rigso still get recommended around here?  

      #  rigso Says:

      March 13th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

      I’ve been talking to john Moddy about this story, he is the Exec VP of News at Fox.

      "Just so you know, I’m the Exec VP of News here. So if things work out, you’d have a friend in a so-called high place on your side."

      He likes me for some reason, we were talking about being Journalism students! This is a GREAT contact for us guys, I can push stories on him, as he has asked me to be his eyes and ears!!!! "Would you be interested in being our eyes and ears on campus?"

      He says on Campus, but I’m sure he wont mind me pushing some campaign stories on him.

  •  He will (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    probably make a much stronger statement about this than Hillary did about Ferraro.

    •  It's entirely clear to me... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope, wader, revgerry, Robinswing

      that this is the Clinton response to the charges of race baiting. Following eight mind exploding years of Bush refusing to acknowledge mistakes, apologizing or disciplining his cronies, HRC picks up the slack.  Rather than issue a strong repudiation of Ferraro, she gives a wink wink nudge nudge and then pulls the old carny trick of misdirection.  

      Same shit, different politician.  "Don't look at us.  Don't criticize the explicit racism.  Nope.  Hey!  Look over there!!!"

      I call BULLSHIT!  You may tell me that it's apple pie but it's still the same vile race baiting shit that they've been pulling since Bill in So. Carolina.  I'm just so sorry that good people fall for it.

      "We're all working for the Pharaoh" - Richard Thompson

      by mayan on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:59:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Let's blame Hillary (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        miriam, calvinshobbes

        because we do it every time. Don't blame Wright for his sermons and words. Don't blame Obama for having a 20 year relationship with Wright. Don't blame Obama for making Wright his pastor and spiritual advisor. Don't blame Obama for attending Wright's church. Don't blame Obama for including Wright in his campaign. Don't blame ABC News for reporting it. Don't blame yourself for putting your head in the sand. Just blame Hillary. Yep, just blame Hillary. It's all Hillary's fault.

    •  When? Shall I hold my breath (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam, grlpatriot

      waiting for Obama to strongly denouce God Damn America and the mouth it came from?

  •  This Obama supporter agrees with you (7+ / 0-)
  •  Cut it out-already posted smear tactics (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope

    Stay out of people's religion-or lack of..

  •  I think tomorrow (17+ / 0-)

    I'll write 500 diaries on the same topic.

    The ruling class has been dividing whites and blacks for 400 years--it is nothing new.

    by Kab ibn al Ashraf on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:45:56 AM PDT

  •  He can come out strong (6+ / 0-)

    obama can come out strong and repudiate these comments, but why did he go every week to this church for the past 20 years and clap when this nut preacher spewed this crap?

  •  Did you really need to write yet another diary... (4+ / 0-)

    ...on this? Couldn't you have posted it in one of the 500 existing diaries on this subject? Some of those diaries are even just below this current diary...

  •  How many more diaries on this by 6:00 pm EST? (4+ / 0-)

    I just need to set my watch.

    Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

    by Dartagnan on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:51:54 AM PDT

  •  I am an Obama supporter (7+ / 0-)

    I would like to see Sen. Obama to further distance himself from Rev. Wright's comments -- specifically stating that Hillary has overcome many obstacles to be in the position she is in.  

    He should also remove Rev. Wright from the committee position he holds in the campaign, even if it is a non-substantive position.

    A good response can do three things:

    (1) Show that he is consistent in his positions regarding surrogates.  And, hopefully, silence future surrogates from both camps.

    (2) Show that he understands the struggle of women generally and gives Hillary credit for her tremendous career; and

    (3) Highlight the fact that he is in fact a CHRISTIAN -- since 13 percent of the public still thinks he's Muslim.

  •  religious test has entered the campaigns (13+ / 0-)


    Obama religious adviser Shaun Casey appeared on Good Morning America to defend Obama saying he had already repudiated Wright's controversial remarks. Casey said other candidates were not getting the same scrutiny.

    "I mean, it's interesting to me you haven't vetted Hillary Clinton's pastor's sermons, you haven't vetted President Bush's pastor's sermons," he said. "You haven't vetted John McCain's pastor's sermons. So, you're not holding them to that standard, which I think is very interesting."

    i don't like the fact that religion is being used in the campaigns.  

    Article VI of the Constitution

    "...The Senators and Representatives before mentioned,... be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

    •  She's Methodist. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam, vcmvo2

      The sermon would be about laying off the booze and cigarettes.  That's about it.  Non controvercial.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:54:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ogre, Eternal Hope, wader, esquimaux, VA Breeze

        This has nothing to do with Wright's being in the United Church of Christ. He gives sermons like these, in part, because he is being honest about how being black in America is experienced by the people of a specific congregation (in a specific neighborhood of a specific city, etc.). You could go to most UCC churches and never hear sermons like Wright's.

        In short, it's not that they're not investigating Clinton's pastor because Clinton is a Methodist... they're curious to look (I think, at least in part) at a predominantly black church that takes the issue of race in American very seriously.

        That said, I've met Pastor Wright several times... he's a nice guy who does, yes, say hard stuff.

        •  The congregations would normally snooze. (0+ / 0-)


          "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

          by Salo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:11:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  How many racists (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          do you consider "nice guys?"  Look, Obama supporters can try spinning this every way to Sunday, but calling white Americans KKKers is not going to go over well with the average middle-class voter.  Not when BO has called this man his spiritual advisor and has been listening to these racist diatribes for 20 years.  

          If I ever heard a minister spewing this kind of stuff about blacks I would not walk, but run out of that minister's church.  I expect most everyone else here would, too.  So why are you defending Obama's close relationship with this man?

          Most scientists believe human brains aren't fully formed until the early 20s. -AMA

          by miriam on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:51:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Y'see, this is the thing... (0+ / 0-)

            Referring to America as Amerikkka was around well before Jeremiah Wright. Talking about the USKKKA (or whatever the specifics were) is a riff on this. It's not an unknown phenomenon.

            The point is that this isn't about specific white Americans, nor is it about white people as individuals in general. It is about the black experience in an America that has spent centuries oppressing African Americans through various institutions, including, but not limited to, slavery, Jim Crow, school funding plans that disfavor black areas, and a prison-industrial system that routinely imprisons more black Americans that white (and, indeed, sentencing standards that treat crimes more likely to be committed by the poor more harshly than those committed by the rich).

            The larger point is that this is all part of a rhetoric  or Black Theology that is not so much concerned with the color of a person's skin as it is with the social status of a person, ie: the poor and discriminated against are counted as Black and the well-off and powerful are counted as white. The language of racism is used largely to portray injustice to a community whose experience of injustice is largely composed of the experience of racism.

            I am not African-American and yes, I often find this use of rhetoric infuriating as I think it obscures important issues. I am also not Barack Obama and am not in a position to defend his relationship with anyone. My only point is that this is a black pastor in a black church using the rhetorical dialect of black experience from a certain strand of black theology, and, dammit, context is important.

            That said, there are white members of Trinity United Church of Christ. I have sat in classes taught by Pastor Wright and he has never even implied that I (or any other white student) is racist. He has attended predominantly white events and not cast dispersions.

            Is he pissed off about the injustices perpetrated against black people? Yes. Does he have the right to be? Hell, yes. Does he treat most white people, as individuals, as personal enemies of either himself or the black community? Not that I'm aware of.

            Of course, one might not glean that from a few minutes of sermons taken from (let's see, we can assume sermons of at least an hour, most weeks of the year, twenty years) over a thousand hours of sermons. Oh, plus all of the other ministries that occur in that church.

      •  She's in the same religious (0+ / 0-)

        group as Brownback and that Santorum used to be in. Are you sure you want to go with that answer? It's called the Fellowship and it's very secretive for precisely this reason.

        And I agree that it's none of our damn business.

        -6.00, -7.03
        "I want my people to be the most intolerant people in the world." - Jerry Falwell

        by johnsonwax on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:07:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Most Methodists haven't preached that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        stuff for many years.

  •  Recommend (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roseeriter, rigso, grlpatriot

    Why has this story not been on recommended list?

  •  lol. (6+ / 0-)

    That sinking feeling.
    What a comical man that fellow wright is.

    Hillary Clinton probably had to be better x2 than the men in the room. She's rich now, but she worked for what she now owns.

    This election is going to become insane before too long. Well, that already happened actually...

    "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

    by Salo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:53:01 AM PDT

  •  Fox News (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope

    Has anyone seen this on Faux News? When, and in what context, did it play?

  •  Yup this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    roseeriter, grlpatriot

    is a perfectly, fair, well researched, charge.

  •  I still don't get it. (10+ / 0-)

    But if you all need to get hot and bothered about this non-issue, rock on.

    The major difference between Ferraro and Wright, of course:

    Wright was telling harsh truths about the United States, and speaking out more roughly and perhaps thoughtlessly than we would have liked.  

    Ferraro was speaking about one specific person who has the gall to run against her anointed candidate, and therefore can be attacked because he's black.

    I do see a difference there.  HUGE difference.

    "2009" The end of an error

    by sheddhead on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:53:33 AM PDT

  •  Ok...I don't see what is wrong with what he said (9+ / 0-)

    I bet Hillary never had a cab pass her by because of the color of her skin or get called the 'N' word or even get pulled over for being in the 'wrong' neighborhood.

    And I do recall anyone calling her not white enough.

    Maybe it was the Jesus was a black man thing that struck the wrong cord?  I don't think he ment it literally, I think he ment it in a way that Jesus was oppressed.

  •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, paintitblue

    I posted a diary about this. It got lost in the shuffle  (sniff) but I said that they are already responding. They have Shaun Casey who is his religious advisor explaining that Obama has repudiated the comments, and he wonders why Mccains religious advisor doesn't get the same scrutiny. And I said that Obama needs to respond forcefully in a speech, and hopefully to do so today.

    I saw a post earlier that I thought was really sensible on this:

    "I'd like for him to make a major address about his relationship with Rev. Wright and contextualize Wrights' comments.  Remove him from the advisory committee - and also say what Rev. Wright has said that is inspiring.  That he can renounce & reject some of his comments but that he could never renounce or reject the man.

    And then say how ironic it is that the same people who demand that the black community fix itself then have no problem demonizing those who are trying to do exactly that, in 99% positive ways."

    And I said that he should say:
    "Rev. Wright is now retired but he was my pastor for a number of years. I think the best way to explain my relationship to him is sort of like, as anyone can relate, having an older family member who says things that I don't agree with sometimes. Who has a different world view and perspective than mine. And you know...sometimes you kind of stay quiet to keep the peace, but sometimes you'll try to convert them over to your side, and usually you just end up having the same argument over and over again. Rev Wright is someone who has created a church community that is really beloved. Trinity has members of all races, is one of the most progressive and activist churches in Chicago, and I am very proud to be a member of the congregation. Rev. Wright is not our pastor anymore and he very clearly doesn't represent the tone or views of my campaign. For me, he has always been a religious figure and our views of the world are very different."

    Pennsylvania=Iowa. It won't even be close!

    by jenontheshore on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:54:10 AM PDT

  •  dont you understand the meaning of (2+ / 4-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, Lying eyes
    Hidden by:
    ogre, TLS66, jeff in nyc, Phil N DeBlanc

    double standard?

    obamabots and kosklowns wrap themselves in double standards the way congresscritters wrap themselves in the flag right after signing the patriot act.

  •  If you take the views from people across that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope

    committee, I don't think you'll lack for quotes to feed the right-leaning TradMed.

    Of course, this is all coming out on the heels of Clinton's climax with Ferraro, yesterday.

    Interesting coincidence.

    Obama has specifically said in the past that Wright, his ex-pastor, does not represent his views and (per a TPM quote) has categorized him "like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with."

    One year ago, he took Wright off the agenda to speak at an Obama event.

    I think he's created a consistent pattern of behavior that will be natural to build upon, if necessary.  Coming out proactively would just make this smear story grew faster than it needs to, and potentially defuse the furor over Clinton's campaign.

    "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

    by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:54:44 AM PDT

    •  Keep spinning (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam, rigso

      Obama may have taken Wright off the agenda to speak but then he put his "old uncle" on his campaign. Nice try.

      •  Er, he's not on his campaign (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eternal Hope

        and you're reaching.  Mightily.

        Should I say, "desperately?"  Yes, yes I should.

        I only see spin coming from some extremists at DKos who happen to support Clinton, and who apparently desire to fan even more racially-charged flames on the day after their candidate was pounded across the media for her handling of the Ferraro fiasco.

        Really, some folks have no shame at all.

        "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

        by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:16:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yep, Wright on campaign (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          miriam, NewHampster

          No shame at all when pointing out blatant hypocrisy. Politico reports that Wright "has a formal role on the campaign." Read the press release that lists Wright's name on Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee. The diarist also included the press snip, but I guess you didn't read the diary either.

          •  So, what? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wader, VA Breeze

            It's too bad that the media doesn't go and see what Clinton's preacher or John McCain's preacher say. And it's too bad that the media does not go and scrutinize what John Hagee said, since he is one of John McCain's supporters. It's just Obama. It seems that the media is following a double standard here.

          •  Please explain the role of that Leadership (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eternal Hope

            committee to the Obama campaign, please?

            I knew of this before reading the diary - but, please, lets' hear your spin of how this long list of black clergy are official campaign representatives for Obama.

            Oh, and beyond the concern . . . what do you hope this inferenced reporting is meant to do, please?

            Obama has already stated he doesn't subscribe to all the personal views expressed by his "uncle"-like Wright, and is thus not represented by them.  He learned spirituality from the man, and these fiery speeches about black people feeling beset upon over so many years in the USA is so much noise.

            And, has never been a tone in the Obama campaign.  It's entirely inconsistent with Obama's history as a politician.

            Love the recent quoting of Politico by the more extremist Clinton supporters, BTW!

            "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

            by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:41:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  BTW, I should note my context (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Eternal Hope

              the "so much noise" mention above was meant in terms of noise being reported here to inflame.

              Not that I feel Wright's points are only noise.  While harsh, he actually seems to offer understandable issues from which to express anger with his congregations, in the context of where and when he presented them.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:44:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  i don't see what was inexcusable in the clip (7+ / 0-)

    you posted.

    is there something the reverend said with which you disagree? i mean, jesus wasn't a black man, but the rev is entitled to his incorrect opinion on that.

    I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

    by UntimelyRippd on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:54:52 AM PDT

    •  sounded like a metaphor. (3+ / 0-)

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:55:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Jesus was in an underprivileged class (5+ / 0-)

        in a society dominated by whites.

        Jesus loved people who were prejudiced against him.

        What is the problem here?

        We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

        by Sam Wise Gingy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:59:34 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Was he? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eternal Hope, Lying eyes

          Judea was Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Syrians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Crusaders, Turks and for a Bit the British. At various times the areas has been colonized from Empires originating from Africa, Asia and Europe (we even have the record of the Jewish conquest of the area from the Canaanites).Sometimes you're UP and sometimes Youre DOWN.

          It's hard to classify that as a black and white issue.

          "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

          by Salo on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 01:07:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  might have been a metaphor, but there is a (0+ / 0-)

        school of "thought" that asserts african race for various historical figures (like cleopatra) based on nothing but wishful thinking. and the rev sounds like he's well-steeped in that school of thought.

        not a big deal for me, one way or the other. if you believe jesus christ was the fricking son of god, it's intellectually infantile to speculate as to his race, which would have been whatever his father wanted it to be. if you believe jesus christ was NOT the son of god, it hardly matters what race he was.

        I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

        by UntimelyRippd on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:11:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Jesus not a black man? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Is that from your personal relationship, or just those pictures hanging in the church hall?

      •  it's from my understanding of the historical (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ethnographic patterns of the region in which jesus lived.

        unless the good reverend can offer any actual evidence to the contrary -- which he can't -- it's reasonable to assume that jesus was of the same race as the other people who inhabit that particular part of the world. he was no more likely to be a "black" man, than he was to be an "asian" man.

        I am further of the opinion that the President must be impeached and removed from office!

        by UntimelyRippd on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:06:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  it was the "god damn america" that I disagreed (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jeff in nyc, Doodad, AJsMom

      with. THat's why it's incendiary.

      What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

      by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:03:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cue up quoting the Bible to make the point. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eternal Hope

        Wikipedia entries...


        Amos was called from his rural home to remind the rich and powerful of God's requirement for justice (e.g. 2:6-16). He claimed that religion that is not accompanied by right action is anathema to God (5:21ff.), and prophesied that the kingdom of Israel would be destroyed (e.g. 5:1-2; 8:2).


        In the first 39 chapters, Isaiah prophesies doom for a sinful Judah and for all the nations of the world that oppose God. The last 27 chapters, called "The Book of Comfort," prophesy the restoration of the nation under a divine king.

        Jeremiah (oh, as in Wright!):

        Jeremiah repeatedly issued prophecies predicting God's forthcoming judgment; advocating the Jews put down their idols and repent in hopes of turning away God's judgment and fulfilling their destiny as his chosen people. Jeremiah's fellow Jews refused to heed his warnings, did not repent and due the failure of his efforts, he witnessed the destruction of everything he knew, the exile of the Jewish elite to Babylonia, and the fleeing of the remainder to Egypt.


        ... twin themes of Israel's sin and the coming retribution. Although God loves Israel, Israel has not returned His love. This has been shown by the continued idolatry and acts of violence, oppression, and sexual sin among the people. Because Israel has not returned God's love, He will put them away from Him, just as Hosea did his wife, and send them into exile.

        Etc., etc., etc.

        "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

        by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:24:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Distance (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, grlpatriot

    They didn't distance themselves much from Donnie McClurkin.  I don't really know what this is about, but that wasn't a brilliant way to start the campaign.

    •  Having now watched the video, I don't see (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theran, Tanya, converse

      anything wrong with what he said.  But I'm not a huge believer in "distancing" or "rejecting" unless there's actual hate involved.  

      •  it was the remark about america (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        skiddie, Doodad, grlpatriot

        that I found most offensive.

        What's madness but nobility of the soul at odds with circumstance?

        by slinkerwink on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:04:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ok. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VA Breeze

          And having someone say "god damn America" is hyperventilation material?  Fainting, we have people fainting.

          Quick poll: Flag burning is protected or not?

          "I desire what is good. Therefore, everyone who does not agree with me is a traitor." King George III

          by ogre on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:28:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  So, what was wrong with that? (0+ / 0-)

          You reap what you sew. The fact is that when we built permanent bases in Saudi Arabia after Saddam's invasion on Kuwait, we pissed a ton of people off, including many who would not do the kinds of things that Bin Laden did. People like Bin Laden considered it to be an act of war. What we have to do in the future is to bring Bin Laden to justice for his deeds and then always take into account the cultural memes of the people we are dealing with before we build bases in their territories.

          And that is on top of the many other militaristic adventures that we have had over the years that Wright describes. There was nothing wrong with what he was saying there.

          •  Saudi Arabia ASKED us to be there (0+ / 0-)

            to protect the royal family and THEIR oil interests.  That bin laden didn't like it shouldn't be our problem.

            If you think independents in swing states are going to embrace the idea that we had 9/11 coming, you're dreaming.

            •  Their government did. (0+ / 0-)

              Your "concern" is noted, but sometimes, it is important to tell the truth, no matter how comfortable it is. And the truth is that 50 years of reliance on the military industrial complex has so sucked the blood out of this country that we are tottering on the brink. The same thing happened to the Romans -- they were so sustained by imperial conquests that when they had reached their natural limits, they were no longer sustainable and collapsed and fell within a few centuries. When we rely on the military industrial complex, it is hardly surprising that some people will want to strike back at us. I know it's not right, but that is just a fact of human nature.

            •  Sorry... What? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              skiddie, Eternal Hope

              ...because we did what the government of a totalitarian state asked us to do other people should not be pissed about it?

              Now, I agree that saying we had it coming is probably not really accurate, but that is also not what I heard Wright saying. I heard him saying that there are consequences to the actions of the US in the world, and that 9/11 was one of those consequences. I did not hear him saying that is okay, just that it is reality.

              •  Somehow in Rev Wright's view (0+ / 0-)

                Bombing Japan in WWII brought on 9/11 along with other thoroughly unrelated actions.  And other people can get pissed all they want - they still don't get to kill thousands of Americans without pissing off waaaay more Americans.

                Do you really think the average independent voter in a swing state is going to sit there and say "well, maybe they have a point and have a right to kill more of us".

  •  Sorry you don't get it, (3+ / 0-)

    but Rev. Wright is a well-respected prophet, speaking truth to power, one of the few people in this country who has the guts to do it.

  •  Jesus taught me how to love my enemies (13+ / 0-)

    What is the problem here?

    People are hating on Obama because of his race.

    Hilary doesn't know what it is to be black.

    Obama knows what it is to be black.

    Black people live in a country controlled by by rich white people.

    Jesus lived in a country controlled by rich white people.

    Obama doesn't fit the mold of rich white and is being attacked for it.

    Blacks should love their enemies.

    Obama has not spoken out on racial issues, but his pastor has. Obama's pastor Wright is not running for president. Obama is.

    Wrights comments were made to a local audience, not a national one.

    We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

    by Sam Wise Gingy on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:57:03 AM PDT

  •  That's a funny video. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, Eternal Hope, Tanya

    Jesus was a poor black man. Well not so much black as he was kind of brownish. Like an Arab. But defiantly a man of color. I didn't find any of that offensive. But I also think religion is for crackpots and the easily deceived. To me it's just funny. Jesus looked like me and I look like my Mediterranean ancestors. I have lived in Seattle now for 2 years so I look like a paler version of my Mediterranean ancestors.

    Hey, you sass that hoopy psilocynic? There's a frood who really knows where his towel is.

    by psilocynic on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:57:34 AM PDT

    •  A note on Black Theology... (9+ / 0-)

      A distinction is made in Black Theology between skin color and social location. Jesus is not usually considered black because he had black skin (although some would argue that he did), but because his experience in the ancient Roman empire was similar to the modern experience of African Americans in the United States today. It's a social comparison.

      •  Interesting (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ogre, Eternal Hope

        I did not know this

        •  If you'd like to know more... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Eternal Hope

          ...I'd recommend James Cone's God of the Oppressed (although, if you're white like me, it'll probably piss you off, and his later stuff is a bit less harsh). There's also James Perkinson's (I think I spelled that right) White Theology, which addresses how white theology might respond positively to Black Theology.

          The more you know :)

      •  No it wasn't. (0+ / 0-)

        A Jew in the Roman Empire was treated very well. Yashua's gripe was with the Jews, not the Romans. The Romans accepted all of their Providences equally and respected all religions. That's what makes it so funny. The Romans loved the Jews. They paid their taxes and kept to themselves. The Greeks on the other treated the Jews like slaves.

        Hey, you sass that hoopy psilocynic? There's a frood who really knows where his towel is.

        by psilocynic on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:10:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

          ...some Jews in the Roman Empire were treated well. There were also numerous Jewish revolts against what was seen (well, what was) and occupational government that occasionally over-interfered.

          That said, one can disagree with the ideas of Black Theology. The point is simply that Wright was probably not as much saying that Jesus was of African descent as he was saying that there are shared dimensions of social experience.

          •  Very true, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eternal Hope, ecclesioleft

            The Jewish revolts were led by the Sacari who would shout things like "no lord but god". They were kind of like terrorists and the Romans had a problem with them. Yeshua never associated with them and there are red letter sections of the bible that are addressed to and condemning the Sacari. All that aside, what made Rev Wrights comments funny (to me) is that it made everything so Black and White. Not all Jews were brown people just as not all Romans were pink people (nobody is really black nor white). And the pink people in the Roman world didn't hate you if you were brown. There were white slaves in Rome and free black men in Israel (and Rome). It's all rather silly.

            Hey, you sass that hoopy psilocynic? There's a frood who really knows where his towel is.

            by psilocynic on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:40:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  White people have left Black under a rock (7+ / 0-)

    ...for a long ass time. This campaign has rolled that rock back and now everyone is amazed at all the shit that's been going on under there

    What Rev Wright is saying is 1. rigt and 2. not too different from what you'd hear in any church on ANY given Sunday

    ps, you are trying to smear his religion and his church. I am a member of UCC and we are not racist

    Hillary is a Skrull

    by LoLoLaLa on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:57:46 AM PDT

    •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope, LoLoLaLa

      but it's likely because I'm black. Like it or not, white people and black people experience America in two VERY different ways. That's just how it is. Black pastors are going to cater their message to the problems/needs/etc of their individual communities. I see nothing wrong with that.

      •  Fire in the belly (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eternal Hope

        My chief concern about Obama is that he may not have the fire in the belly to take on the snakepit of Washington. I also find it troubling he has had to renounce perfectly reasonable views, for more moderate if not down right conservative talking points.

        Wright makes up for that in spades!

        I'm mad as Gravel, and I'm not going to take it anymore!

        by ceti on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 02:03:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  My rabid Republican sister passed this along (5+ / 0-)

    in an email over a month ago.  Sean Hannity talked about it on Fox.  Elizabeth Hasselhoff expressed her concern on the View yesterday.

    Get a grip!  Are you taking your talking your points from these people?

  •  Nice try-- (13+ / 0-)

    Thanks for sharing.

    But I've decided when I read this crap I'm going to push back with this, from Senator Obama:

    From MSNBC First Read today:

    You know, as I’ve said before, race and gender issues are very powerful in our society. They’ve been an organizing principle of our politics since the earliest days of our country. And so it would be naïve for me to think that we could just brush them aside. And I know that sometimes Sen. Clinton and others accuse me of being naïve, but I’m not naïve enough to think that we’re going to solve the country’s racial problems, and some of these other divisions in the span of six months or a year. What I do think is that our campaign has pointed towards the future, an era where these distinctions are less prominent in our politics.

    Nebraska: Who knew it was a hotbed of activist trust-funded latte-drinking Prius-driving brainwashed caucusers? It's not just about the corn.

    by cultural worker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 11:58:17 AM PDT

    •  Obama - First Read (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope, revgerry, paintitblue

      Why wasn't this graceful statement given more prominence by the Obama campaign? This should have led the campaign response to the Ferraro remarks.

      •  I think it will be highlighted-- (5+ / 0-)

        by Obama's campaign.

        Meanwhile, tHhis diary, A post-racial president sank into oblivion but there's another great quote from Obama there:

        Obama said some voters might favor or disfavor him because he is black, just as some might favor or disfavor Clinton because she is female.
        However, he said, "the overwhelming majority of Americans are going to make these decisions based on who they think will be the best president. I have absolute confidence that if I'm doing my job, if I'm delivering my message, then there are very few voters out there that I can't win."
        "If I'm not winning them over," he said, "then it's my fault."

        This statement also cuts through the crap and gets us back to where, IMHO, civic discourse should be, and that is looking at the real difference between the candidates and not the characteristics of the candidate's supporters.

        This is what I believe (this is what I must believe):

        "the overwhelming majority of Americans are going to make these decisions based on who they think will be the best president."

        Nebraska: Who knew it was a hotbed of activist trust-funded latte-drinking Prius-driving brainwashed caucusers? It's not just about the corn.

        by cultural worker on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:23:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What was offensive there? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I mean, what was in that sermon that you hadn't heard before?

    Ortiz/Ramírez '08

    by theran on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:06:31 PM PDT

    •  I really have no idea (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      A poster above said it was his comments about America.

    •  There really is a disconnect (0+ / 0-)

      between dKos and the rest of the world.

      •  Hang on. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theran, Eternal Hope

        Do you think there's a difference between a white woman denigrating a black man and black man saying that black people are oppressed by rich white people?  Why didn't Ferraro complain about men?  Why try to completely discredit a presidential candidate because he's black?    You honestly don't see a difference there?

        I'm not trying to start a pissing match.  I want to understand your point of view.

      •  No, there's a disconnect (0+ / 0-)

        between white people who've never given race any serious thought and everybody else.

        What specifically is wrong with what's said in those video clips?  That there's white privilege?  That the criminal justice system systematically disempowers the black community?  That America is belligerent abroad?

        I was expecting something really bad, or ``kill whitey'' or whatever, but all there is are some pretty uncontroversial statements.

        Ortiz/Ramírez '08

        by theran on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 03:25:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I guess I'm a little dense, but (7+ / 0-)

    what exactly did the Reverend say in this sermon that's not true? Is it his mannerisms that people find controversial? Or that he says Jesus was black? Or that rich white people run this country?

    I can understand that people are scared of his "type." But what he actually all seems true. Impolitic, maybe. But true.

    I'd just like to know the specific thing that is pissing people off about this video. "Politics is the entertainment arm of Industry." - Zappa

    by CheeseMoose on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:07:16 PM PDT

  •  but but but (4+ / 0-)

    isn't Obama a muslim???


    Hillary "Lucky to be a" Clinton - 2008

    by soros on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:10:31 PM PDT

  •  I actually enjoyed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ogre, Eternal Hope

    watching the video on a personal level. The guy is entertaining and states some hard truths. But, saying Jesus is black.. boy that's a minefield among the blue color whites. And the whole thing will be used by Clinton and McCain to stereotype Obama.

    I'm sure that Wright was just trying to defend Obama, but I wish he'd think before he does stuff like this. It's more important for Obama to make it to the WH than for Wright to spout off in public. sigh...  

    I don't see how Obama can sever ties with a pastor of 20 years. It puts Obama in a terrible spot where he'd have to betray someone whom he probably loves and respects. Wright is a problem for Obama -- no doubt about that. I really don't have any idea of how to deal with it. I don't think the whole atmosphere of the church is going to go over great in white America. The way that McCain's supporter Hagee carries on turns me off cold. I'm sure Wright will to many, many  white voters.

  •  I watched the sermon (6+ / 0-)

    and I'm a white man.  It was directed at me and I was saying "Amen!".

    Women definitely have to face things men don't and there's is much work to be done for equality.  But are vast numbers of women being thrown in jail for non-violent drug offenses?  Or trumped-up charges?

    Of course it's insensitive but it's in a totally different class of speech than what Ferraro said.

  •  White Liberals Discomfort with Race (5+ / 0-)

    I've watched the video over and over and I can only conclude that people that are outraged about Rev. Wright's sermon have never had a conversation about race before.  

    I really don't get it.

  •  Rigso, Please tell us what Rev. Wright said (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, esquimaux

    that is not true.

    Obama should denounce whatever Rev. Wright said that is not true.

    But he should not denounce the truth, no matter how uncomfortable the truth of American history or present is.

    To compare what Rev. Wright said to Ferraro's comments is pure B.S.


    Hillary and Bill ought to exit stage right from American politics

    by pwr2thepeople on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:14:58 PM PDT

  •  Too bad Mitt's not the nominee. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, esquimaux

    Since what goes on behind the pulpit appears to be fair game.

    Don't Legitimize Fox News.
    "Democrats have the heart to care."

    by jeepdad on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:16:30 PM PDT

  •  If I ask the Obama campaign to do as you say... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, esquimaux

    Will you sit there and clap your hands and say, "oh well done, I got you to reject and denounce" your own pastor.  Would that bring back pride to the Clinton campaign?  Senator Clinton really needs to put her own house back in order before she goes around telling other people how to run their successful campaigns.

    When the clock strikes midnight, the Clinton campaign will turn back into a turnip (so I don't insult the pumpkins of the world) and we'll finally be ready to take on McBush.

    ... false hope. But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope. Obama 2008

    by BasharH on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:16:40 PM PDT

  •  BO consults with Reb. Wright (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Doodad, grlpatriot

    BO himself says he consults with Rev. Wright before he makes any big decisions.  Scary thought for the future of our country . . .

  •  Bogotry is bad (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, grlpatriot

    no matter who is practicing it.  Obama should speak out strongly against this kind of hatred, but I doubt that he will.

    by Izarradar on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:25:18 PM PDT

  •  Well, good for him. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cultural worker

    You have to take into account the fact that some Blacks like Wright do things differently than we do. So, for instance, Wright and others like him consider Black as a way of life. So, for instance, he would say that Jesus was Black and he would say that the prophets were Black. But there is nothing wrong with what he says about the rich White power structure or the blowback on America from its militaristic adventurism from the last 50 years whatsoever. In the same way, during the 1990's, a lot of Blacks considered Bill Clinton to be the first Black president.

    •  sure, that is not what is essentially (0+ / 0-)

      wrong with it. But comparing him to jesus and Clinton to the white rich romans? Obama shouldnt stand by these comments if he's smart.

      •  I'm sure that he won't. (0+ / 0-)

        He has made it clear that he doesn't always agree with what Wright is saying. But what is clear is that Hillary and Bill have done a lot of things that are compatible with the "rich white power structure" that Wright rants about. She saw Iraq, for instance, as a logical extension of her husband's policy on Kosovo, for instance. She supported permanent bases as late as 2005. Bill passed the Welfare Reform Act passed, which was a disaster to many in the Black community.

  •  RIGSO (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Email me please for important information.


    by Izarradar on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 12:38:47 PM PDT

  •  RE church tax exemption (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, rigso

    You would be surprised what can legally be said from the pulpit - short of directing people specifically to vote for a particular candidate.

  •  Wow! That's hate speech. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rigso, grlpatriot

    How can he DARE complain about Ferraro?  What a hypocrit!

  •  Thank You for Posting (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rigso, grlpatriot

    No one has a monopoly on racism although Obama had 20 years to walk away from this shit and he didn't. Shame on him. What a great Republican ad this will make!!!!

  •  Please Recommend This Diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rigso, grlpatriot, JoeySky18

    This has to make it to the MSM so people see what Obama's spiritual guru is really like.
    Kiss all the reds and some of the blues good-bye with this gutter shit.

    •  Please do not recommend this diary. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theran, Wizznilliam

      This diarist undermines the purposes of this site by posting this shit to FOX, enabling the right-wing noise machine. I'm a lot more concerned about how this diarist is undermining the purposes of this site than I am about anything Rev. Wright said.

      •  again, a media list is comprehensive. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        it includes fox, and other networks/ right wing/ left wing publications. I have contacts at Fox now, through my schools journalism program, and one at CNN, whats the problem?

        •  It is a huge problem. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          You undermine the purposes of this site by feeding information to FOX that they can use to smear Obama. But you already chose Clinton over this site anyway. So, maybe you should go back over to Hillaryis44 or start Daily Hillary and let those of us who are dedicated to electing Democrats have our own community.

          •  Hillary is a democrat, HELLO! (0+ / 0-)

            and last I checked we were still ina primary. The hypocrisy is too much. So its OKAY for this site that is supposed to elect democrats so nobly to smear Hillary right on the Front PAGE?! more than once, with Bullshit "darkened Ad" conspiracy theories.

            But it's not okay for me to demand balanced coverage on race issue from all media networks. Nice logic.

            •  I'm not talking about Hillary. (0+ / 0-)

              I'm talking about you and your undermining of the purposes of this site by enabling the FOX noise machine. I don't care about the e-mail list or even demanding what you call "balanced coverage," but you are doing more than that -- you have friends within FOX that you are feeding information that they can use for their own right-wing purposes.

              •  wow, you are wildly exxagerating (0+ / 0-)

                it. I'm seeing Fox as a news vehicle and thats it. The truth is they get the highest ratings and drive often what other media cover. They are 95% bad, but they do still cover regular stories, and I've interned at my local fox for school, to get credits and thus made some contacts. If I'd like a story covered, or have an idea for a story, id send it fox as well as CNN/MSNBC/TIME/USATODAY.... I don't see anything wrong with that, as again, they often drive media.  Why don't you go yell at Barack Obama or HRC for appearing on Fox, i'm sure their campaigns understand its a reality of news today, so do I

                •  We are discussing you -- not them. (0+ / 0-)

                  This diary reflects more on you than it does on Reverend Wright. This diary shows your basic ignorance of FOX, what kind of an organization they stand for, and what kind of crap they pull. Go buy Al Franken's book on FOX and see for yourself how FOX routinely distorts news for right-wing propaganda purposes. And while you're at it, go and read Media Matters and FAIR as well. When you've done that, then we can talk.

                  •  wow, too bad my diary doesnt (0+ / 0-)

                    mention Fox. too bad the same story, EXACT same story i pused to fox, I also pushed to CNN/MSNBC/Kansas City Start and over 100 media organizations, too bad huh? you have no point...

                    •  Again: (0+ / 0-)

                      I could care less if you had an email list of 100 news organizations that include FOX. The problem is that you are doing a lot more than that. You are milking your contacts within FOX, enabling them to spew out their hate speech every day.

                      •  I don't have power over Fox (0+ / 0-)

                        eternal, I tell them the same story I tell other media. your fantasy world where I can get fox to print whatever I'd like (would be nice) isn't real. I pitch them a story, like any P.R person does, the journalist either likes it or doesnt. If you have a contact it's easier, so I have contacts at Fox and CNN. If I have a story idea i think they should publish, i pass it on to them. its not hard to understand...

            •  Really? n/t (0+ / 0-)

              Ortiz/Ramírez '08

              by theran on Thu Mar 13, 2008 at 04:11:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Do you know what fascism is? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            It's you and people like you, who want to shut up anyone who disagrees with you.  How dare you call yourself "Eternal Hope"!  You are not the solution; you are the problem.  If a Democrat is not elected in November, you will be to blame, for trying to shut up anyone who really wanted to take an honest look at the candidates.  Now that you have a fatally flawed candidate who cannot win, trying to silence everyone who tells the truth about him won't help you one bit.

      •  Yeah, and that's what's wrong with you (0+ / 0-)

        You are more worried about your flawed candidate winning than about stopping hate, more worried about covering up the truth than seeing the truth.

        What a phony you are.

        •  This is a Democratic blog. (0+ / 0-)

          The purpose of this site is to get Democrats elected, and this diarist is undermining the purposes of this site by supplying crap to FOX News. There is nothing hateful about what Reverend Wright is saying. There is plenty of hate on FOX, and rigso is enabling that hate machine.

          •  enabling? haha, give me a break. you are obsessed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            with the fact that my media list of over 2000 emails includes Fox on it, and I know a couple of people at Fox and push the same stories to them that i push to all other networks when i think the story deserves coverage, its a P.R trade, not a blog trade. Get over it, go back to writinga bout Hillary and how her campaign is commiting credit card fraud.

          •  Don't you get it? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rigso, grlpatriot

            YOU are the hate machine.  YOU are the problem for the Democratic party.  Don't lecture me on getting Democrats elected.  I've been a Democrat for 40 years and if a Democrat does not get elected in 2008 it will be your fault, not mine.

          •  Nothing Hateful? - God Damn America (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            You are completely full of shit.
            Kids with 10x your guts are at war and this
            Fuck Head says God damn America?
            America deserved 9/11?

            Well Fuck Obama's Anti American Chucrh of Hate
            Congrats He just lost the election!!

            •  Well, good for him. (0+ / 0-)

              I'm sick and tired of all the racist crap that is going on in this country like disproportionate numbers of Blacks going to jail, Blacks being disenfranchised at the polls, people being arrested for driving while Black, people like Bill Clinton stabbing his base in the back to get his wife elected. Where the hell is your outrage at that?

              •  Are you nuts? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                calvinshobbes, grlpatriot

                Seriously, are you nuts?  Bill Clinton's presidency left ordinary Americans a whole lot better off when it ended than when it started.  I can't say it was perfect.  After all, in politics there have to be compromises.  Now, I know you folks here at DKOS don't realize that, but it's true.

                And what's the obsession about blacks?  They were indeed disenfranchised in large numbers, but so were Hispanics, the elderly, and lots of other Americans.  Is it only bad when it happens to blacks?

                You have some growing up to do, if you can hear someone say he's glad about 9/11 and then praise him.  That is, unless you're nuts.

                •  I agree that Clinton did some good things. (0+ / 0-)

                  I realize that we were a lot better off than when Clinton first took power; I will support Hillary if she were to win the nomination. But maybe you should go through and read what I write before you go making accusations, because I have consistently called out anti-immigration creeps. Racism and discrimination are wrong no matter who it happens to.

      •  purposes of this site (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Are you serious?

  •  Chicken Shit Kos Put This on Front Page (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
  •  Fuck Obama's Church of Hate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rigso, NewHampster

    And a special Satan Fuck for Reverend Wright!

  •  Rev Wright... (0+ / 0-)

    Thank you. The MSM has had a hayday with Ms. Ferraro who was talking academically and historically...and then got skewered...excuse me, but this Rev Wright stuff is beyond the pale. BO needs to repudiate it, distance himself from it and denounce it before he can even considered to be a serious candidate. And by the way, where are Matthews, Russert and Olbermann? And all the other BO fawners? This is, by the way, serious stuff.

  •  this is one church that should (0+ / 0-)

    have it's tax exempt status removed.

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