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CNBC is doing a special all day about world Oil & gas supplies.

The last commentator/ analyst is predicting 7 dollar gas based on the facts:
Most of the new supply in oil products is in Liquid natural gas products, ie propane

90% of gas is used for car transportation
Propane accounts for 2% of transport fuels

"If the Unites States cannot get cars off the internal combustion engine, in the next 5 years, we'll have $7 gas."

Have to run to doc today.  Thought it would be interesting to those  that can watch.

Oh and the housing numbers are HORRIBLE down another 8%

11 Months supply.

Time to buy!

Originally posted to bldr on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:08 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Time to turn & cough (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sclminc, koNko

    A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem.- Albert Einstein

    by bldr on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:08:18 AM PDT

  •  Hillary has no idea (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wader, koNko, bldr, voila

    Check out this funny Captcha from MoveOn.org's site. You have to submit your email to vote on the Obama in 30 seconds and type out the words in the captcha to validate. I'm sure it's completely random (30 page reloads didn't show it again) occurance, but it speaks truth.

    The words Hilary and Ideas are crossed out:

    Hillary has no ideas.

  •  In 2006, Pelosi PROMISED She'd Lower Gas Prices (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko

    "

    Democrats have a plan to lower gas prices.join Democrats who are working to lower gas prices now."

    - Then-Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi
    (D-CA), Press Release, April 19, 2006

    I fear the over-the-top 2006 rhetoric is going to bite us in the ass this year...

  •  I hope we get $7 gas around (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko

    October 25th 2008...to ensure a Democratic blowout...

    Obama/Richardson '08 Winning Change for America and the Democratic Party

    by dvogel001 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:35:36 AM PDT

  •  They've been paying $7 in Europe for the past (7+ / 0-)

    few years.  Now its up to around $10.  None of the rest of the world has any sympathy for Americans whining about $4.00 gas.

  •  Hydrogen fuel cells, Algae biodiesel... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tinfoil Hat, koNko

    Solar charged batteries... something, anything...

    COMMON!!!

    "There is no trickle down, because greed expands to absorb any excess." - Devilstower

    by Rich Santoro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 07:44:15 AM PDT

    •  None are short-term solutions. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bldr, Rich Santoro

      And none is a complete solution in itself.

      A few questions/comments:

      How much must be invested just to maintain (not improve) America"s crumbling highway infrastructure to keep those electric cars (which aren't here yet) running?

      How much mass-transit could it buy instead, which is flexible for evolving power options since it includes an electrical grid?

      What is the energy efficiency of mass-transit verses personal cars? And the total cost of ownership?

      Americans always say mas-transit can't work in the US, but that's only because people don't want to give up the luxary of cars, which is rather illusitory when sitting in traffic.

      Well planned and integrated mass-transit ncluding local feeders is an efcient and available solution today, would lower energy consumption and provide a route for future changes since it uses electricity which can come from any available source.

      Depending on very high density batteries and fuel cells is a bad gamble, they will be developed but there are significant problems to overcome and wil never be a total solution.

      BTW, one of my company's products is smart battery regulators to optimize charge/discharge so we have a stake in promoting battery technology. It is part of the solution (particularly as an enabler for wind/solar) but high charge density technology has some difficult problems attached and the size/weight burden is not simple to solve just by having higher density media. The technology has scaleability problems and a solution for small, ultra-thin/light batterirs for mobile phones or Notebook PsC does not scale up to automobile requirements as simply as one might suppose. Hope it does soon so I can cash in my options, notvholding my breath just yet.

      I ride a high-speed light rail to work and that is an available solution today and for the future.

      When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

      by koNko on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:35:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  YES... I forgot to mention Mass Transit (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        koNko

        Which I actually favor as the top priority.  I live in Chicago-land and commute 55 miles 1 way to work.

        The transit system sucks, in that it is all spokes running into the city, but with no lines interconnecting them so you can travel among 'burbs.  I am totally in favor of mass transit (creates jobs, decreases travel times, is more affordable, reduces emmissions).

        I do still want to see initiatives to develop solar, wind, geothermal, wave and hydrogen fuel cells.  Not just for autos, but for homes as well.  Let's get off of coal and nuclear.

        "There is no trickle down, because greed expands to absorb any excess." - Devilstower

        by Rich Santoro on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:48:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  New "El"? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rich Santoro

          Chicago is a good example of a city tht could benifit from mass transit and make it work because it has engough population density to support several municipal lines and light rails to the suburbs.

          I used to travel to Chicago occasionally, visiting Schamberg (MOT) and Evansville. Really love the downtown area, the food & the music. Chicago is a very livable sity like San Francisco without hills.

          You make an importiant observation about a critical point, feeder lines.

          In many cities of Asia (including Tokyo, Beijing, Shanghai) they use a combination of "Ring" lines the circle the urban area and "X" spokes that cross the middle. That enables intra station connections.

          The second point is a well coordenated mix of local surface transport, This is relatively easy since thee is less infrastrucure involved but still needs good planning.

          The third is so called "TOD" or transit oriented development that clusters business close to or above stations to minimize the abount of outward surface travel. In some cities (tokyo, Hong Kong) the rail lines have development rights to the realestate above stations and derrive income for tennants that effectively subsidize the operations. It's a win-win-win. This can be very importiant in lower density suburban areas where the revenue to maintain infrastructure may not be sufficient from fares alone, linking business to the stations avoids excessive government subsidies.

          When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

          by koNko on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:40:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Plenty of electric cars available (0+ / 0-)

      Granted, many are NEVs (neighborhood electric vehicles) which have limited speed and range, but are fine for many people.  Even the general-purpose GM EV-1 was a success among the people driving them, but GM cancelled the program when California wimped out on its promise to require a certain number of vehicles be zero tailpipe emissions.  They're still wimping out.  Makes me very sad.

      My 81-year-old mother remembers that in the 1930's an elegant old lady used to drive around Berkeley in an electric car.  It looked like a small carriage and she steered it with a tiller.  The car was probably from the mid 1900's.  If they could do it then, what's the problem now other than a lack of will and a desire to make as much money as possible with #$@%#! Hummers?

      I read of a very nice prototype of a pure-electric vehicle to which you could attach a small trailer with a gasoline engine for recharging batteries if you wanted to take a long trip.  Sounds like a great way to go... particularly if you could simply rent the trailer for the occasional trips that exceed normal driving.

      Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
      Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

      by Caelian on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:55:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Current trend suggests $12 per gallon by 2013 (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    koNko, phonegery

    It was $1.40 in 2003. Today it is $4.00 in CT. A 300% increase in five years. Why should the trend stop? The Fossil Fuel Collective with its agents in the White Hosue for the last 7 years made sure a cartel has gained control of the Persian Gulf flow of oil. An American taxpayer investment of $1 trillion for the cartel to make $150 billion in profit this year. Not a bad deal, if you are a member of the Collective. If not, then screw you.

  •  $150/barrel is likely this year (0+ / 0-)

    The good news is it could help to elect a Democratic President.

    The bad news is the basket case that individual would inherit.

    Peak Oil is history, now comes the downside.

    Quick, imperfect solutions now become more possible because it's survival.

    When harmonious relationships dissolve, respect and devotion arise; when a nation falls to chaos, loyalty and patriotism are born - Daodejing (paraphrased)

    by koNko on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:01:52 AM PDT

  •  This is what drives .... (0+ / 0-)

    People to the Left . This energy field is driven by greed and they know well that they can do what they want . This is what drives people to the Left as in Venezuela where they have nationalized their oil . What has happened with that and exports from Venezuela has probably had an impact on our current prices .

    •  the energy fied isn't just driven by greed... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      koNko

      ...it is driven by blindspots as well.  The US has, too long lived in a blindered transportation bubble.

      The problem is that the bubble burst before the culture learned to take off the blinders, so now we are left fumbling on a path we can't see our way out of.

      Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

      by a gilas girl on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:20:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dude, living in Venezuela drives one to the right (0+ / 0-)

      Chavez is demonstrating why price controls are a bad idea right now:

      Food Shortages in Venezuela

      In the mean time, PDVSA, the company he nationalized, has seen production drop off a cliff to the point where they're actually buying oil to meet their delivery obligations.

  •  Huge opportunity (0+ / 0-)

    Having been brought up in a culture of public transportation, bicycling, and (gasp) walking, I've been waiting a long time for 'Merca's car culture to end.  The health benefits from people walking to public transportation will be enormous.

    Gasoline-based cars are horribly efficient and toxic to the planet.  There's plenty of energy out there if we didn't waste so much of it.  Pretty sad that a self-styled technically-advanced country wastes so much.  I'm glad that it will be no longer possible to do so.

    As Al Gore says, waste is expensive.  You have to pay for the raw materials and energy to produce waste.  As just one example, it's absurd how much energy my PC is now wasting when all I'm doing is typing.  If it were based on an ARM instead of an X86 I'd be using a tiny fraction of the power.

    Big Joe Helton: "I pay Plenty."
    Chico Marx: "Well, then we're Plenty Tough."

    by Caelian on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 08:36:31 AM PDT

  •  Thou shalt not speakth of ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pHunbalanced, bldr

    Trains and bicycles.

    The scary thing is that cars really are a radical monopoly in true sense of Ivan Illich's definition.  

    We have built our living, commerce, and industrial infrastructure in a manner that is based on single zones and transportation with cars.  And because we have been wasteful in our land use, we need motorized transportation to move between home, work and commerce.  Furthermore, we chose private trucks moving on public highways for our freight transportation. Talk about corporate welfare.

    Yes, we can put back the rails through the heartland, to move more of our freight by rail, rebuild the Lehigh Valley Railroad or CNW's Cowboy line through Northern Nebraska.... at great expense.  And note, much of the money for railway construction came from municiple, state and federal bonds and from foreign investors.  Will the indebted states be able to invest again in rail lines?  Will the foreign investors chose to invest in a low profit potential american rail line if the economy is in the toilet?  

    Our country spent the last 40 years flushing a huge amount of "surplus" rail lines down the crapper and now the freight carriers are close to their limits.

    Yes, we can start expanding Amtrak back to the height of the private rail in the 1940's ... at great expense.

    Most of the trains in this country are limited to less than 79 mph because of track conditions and it would take a huge investment in roadbed and equipment.

    And we need to make these investments.  

    The only good news is that our streets make good bicycle ways.  And in the era of expensive gasoline, more people will and need to start bicycling.

    That said, who wants to commute 45 miles one way by bicycle.

    There are no easy or cheap fixes.  

    Charles

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