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My fellow Obama supporters.  Tonight is a night of celebration.  We have won a decisive victory in North Carolina, and although we are just shy, Indiana went about as good as we could have possibly hoped. Tonight, the message is clear.  Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee for President of the United States.

Even the mainstream media and the pundits are finally acknowledging this fact.  There will be pressure in the coming days from both the media and those inside Senator Clinton's inner circle for her to suspend her campaign in the coming days.  It may be tomorrow, it may be a week from now, or it may be after June 3rd.  But one thing is clear.  This campaign is winding down, and we have won.

So I have a simple request for my fellow Obama supporters, below the fold.

Lets make a promise to end the Clinton bashing tonight.  Yes, Hillary Clinton will probably not drop out of the race right away, and she will probably continue to do things that will upset a large portion of this community. I understand that you will be frustrated, but I am asking for my fellow Kossacks to look at the big picture, and understand that this is not in the best interest of the Democratic party, and not in the best interest of Barack Obama's candidacy for the presidency.  

I'll be honest.  This place has gotten pretty toxic towards Hillary Clinton lately.  I know that she has done a lot to upset the members of this community. Hell, she's done a lot to upset me.  And I've been fairly vocal about that on this site. But more and more lately, it has gone past normal criticisms, and has become pure hostility.  The comments and diaries have been increasingly filled with name calling and labeling.  The discourse has spiraled into a level of discourse that no longer helps Barack Obama unify the party, and only hurts him in that goal.

The truth is, DailyKos used to be an incredibly powerful Democratic blog.  In the last 4 months (about when I started posting, but I lurked for years beforehand), the site went from being a Democratic blog (at least in respect to the presidency), to an Obama blog.  In the process of doing that, we have managed to be hostile enough to run the large majority of Clinton supporters off this site.  Now that Obama has secured all but secured the nomination, it is our time to start welcoming these people back to this site. They can help us build this blog to what it once was (don't get me wrong this blog is still incredibly powerful and influential, it has just lost some of it's punch by driving away a fair number of it's members), which is the most powerful grassroots organization in the Democratic party?

To start to bring these people back into the fold, we need to drop the negativity, and start being more positive.  Despite what some may think, calling Hillary Clinton a Republican, or a sexist name, or making a sexual joke about Bill is not the way to make any new friends.  All that will do is continue to polarize the party, and make continue to turn people away from this community.  So drop the negativity.  Resist taking shots at Hillary Clinton, even if you feel you are justified. It will help make us mend the rifts that have been caused by this prolonged primary.

If any of you listened to Barack Obama's victory speech tonight, he talked about the need to unify the party around the eventual nominee.  Let's take to Senator Obama's message and start to behave in the way he would want us to be.  That means continuing to enthusiastically support Senator Obama, but to create an environment where all Democrats feel welcome.

In 2009, President Obama will thank us for this.

UPDATE:  I wanted to respond to a couple of the comments in the thread.  I don't think we need to give Hillary Clinton a completely free pass on everything.  We can, however, frame our arguments in a much more positive manner than we have in the past.  Just stating what you think Clinton did wrong and why you think it was wrong is a lot more effective and lot more positive if it's done without the name calling and the mocking that normally accompanies most posts about Clinton (I'm guilty of doing it to).  The way we phrase our arguments makes a big difference.

I also don't think I'm suggesting that Clinton supporters were somehow purged or run off this site.  People choose to come and go of their own free will, and no one is physically preventing them from coming back.  However, you do have to admit that this is a pretty shitty atmosphere for a Clinton supporter to come in to.

SECOND UPDATE: Thanks for putting this on the Rec list.  I know that a good number of you disagreed with my premise, but I am glad that it is starting an honest discussion on how we should focus in the future.  I wanted to include a comment from Sab39 that I thought summed up what I was trying to say very nicely:

I feel the same way as you do about her campaign and about her. It doesn't matter, though. At this point on we should play nice PERIOD. If something said by a Clinton supporter upsets us to the point that we can't say anything that isn't a furious rebuttal or a negative comment about her, we should say NOTHING.

Sure, keep a watchful eye; if anything is happening that might actually change the outcome of the race, act to prevent it. But don't do that by putting her down or her supporters, no matter how tempting it might be. We need them - or even if you don't believe that we NEED them, Obama's whole message is about getting over division and that every state and every voter counts. Obama has tried to be the bigger person in this campaign and we need to live up to the example he sets.

We need to remember that this is the principle that Barack Obama has built his campaign on.  This is why his campaign is holding a 50 state voter registration drive.  This is why Obama volunteers have affectionately coined the term "Obamacans".  Barack Obama's campaign is about bringing together all people, regardless of race, gender, ideology, political leaning, or candidate they supported in the primary.  He has asked us to transcend the politics of negativity and division.  Even if others are not keeping up their end of the bargain, let's try to keep up ours.  I have failed to do that many times in the past, but this diary is my pledge to do so in the future.  It looks like some of you are ready to join me.

On that note, I am heading to sleep.  I'm going to wake up in about 5 hours to get ready for work, so I will check back in then, and respond further if the discussion is still ongoing.

THIRD UPDATE:
 A lot of people in the comments seem to be very intent on assigning blame over who started the negativity in this campaign, and which side is more responsible for it.  I have no interest in doing that.  I don't feel it is a productive way to move forward.  If we focus on that, it's an argument that we'll be having through November with Clinton supporters, and will stand in the way of unifying the party.  Some conflicts never end because the sides are more concerned about assigning blame than reaching reconciliation.

I also strongly disagree that it is the responsibility of Hillary Clinton and her supporters to make the push towards unity.  We are the ones who have won, so we are responsible for building the coalition that will put our candidate into the White House.  This is the burden we bear as winners.  Just like it was the responsibility of Kerry supporters to reach out to Dean and Edwards supporters once he won the nomination, it is the responsibility of Obama supporters to reach out to Clinton supporters.  We can hope that Hillary Clinton and her supporters will actively join us in our attempt to unify the party (and I think if we start to act more positively, we make it easier for them to do so).  However, our actions do not have to be dependent on their actions.  We alone are responsible for our own behavior.

Originally posted to smash artist on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Celebrate. Feel good. (112+ / 0-)

    And come back tomorrow ready for unity. Amen.

  •  No (32+ / 0-)

    Ben Smith says Clinton aides say that now that she has "won" Indiana, they still have a rationale to stay in the race.

    I will end loathing her the day she withdraws. As long as she ever so slightly HINTS at making this last any longer it needed to, I will fight her tooth and nails.

  •  Ok, but she needs to concede ASAP (5+ / 0-)

    I did not have sexual relations with that sniper.

    by Headd on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:03 PM PDT

  •  As long as she's out by this time next week (4+ / 0-)

    I can hold off for a bit.  

  •  I will not (14+ / 0-)

    bash her.

    Virtue does not come from wealth, but. . . wealth, and every other good thing which men have. . . comes from virtue --Socrates

    by BlackBox on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:12 PM PDT

  •  A-Fucking-Men (13+ / 0-)

    The time for petty knocks are long past.

    And God bless Hillary Rodham Clinton!

  •  Depends (42+ / 0-)

    First of all, nobody was "run off" the site.  Frankly, I'm not sure many left, because traffic has gone through the roof, and increased after the drama of a handful of malcontents.

    As for Hillary Bashing, we'll see.  If she does the right thing, I'm sure many people will put aside personal feelings for the good of the party.  But it's up to her right now.

    The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

    by Dana Houle on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:56:46 PM PDT

    •  hurt the party= take the heat (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mayan, dazed in pa, la urracca, golconda2

      or get out of the kitchen, or the race... once she's out we'll remember what it was we liked about her

    •  Keep it up (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, pacotrey

      Watching her campaign, meet and greet with all the party elites pushing her to get out boosted Hillary's popularity - it showed voters she works even without her inherited advantage.

      She's won over a lot of skeptics this season.

      •  She Destroyed Her Reputation With Many... (14+ / 0-)

        ...for running a campaign that at times was scurrilous.

        The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

        by Dana Houle on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:19:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  She's running a great campaign (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          brn2bwild, Sychotic1, pacotrey

          And it creates cognitive dissonance in a lot of people who had bought into the talking points that she was evil.

          Also, because she happens to be a strong person, and also happens to be a straight female who cares about families and children, but also happens to be a smart, complete, candidate who can hold her own on foreign policy, it seems to drive a lot of people crazy.

          In her book, she says the WaPo ran an interview in 1992 before the 1992 inauguration, talking to her about the gown she was going to wear. It ran in the style section. She said it caused an uproar.

          Cognitive dissonance is hard on some people.

          •  oh god! ALREADY history is being rewritten. (12+ / 0-)

            creates cognitive dissonance in a lot of people who had bought into the talking points that she was evil.

            what a pathetic statement, trying to mythologize the idea that people here or elsewhere criticized her harshly because "they though she was evil".

            can hold her own on foreign policy, it seems to drive a lot of people crazy.

            How long are we going to have to put up with this "smear job". All you people who want to categorize those who opposed Hillary Clinton as sexist or fearful of women (YOUR CODED LANGUAGE SAID THAT), you are missing entire components of your brain.

            Had she stuck to the issues and ran against a fellow Democrat, you would not have seen this vitriol. The vitriol was a response.

            Please take your Monday Morning Quarterbacking elsewhere.

            Cognitive dissonance is hard on some people.

            Riiiight. The "unevolved" ones. Please save a place at the dais of actualization for the rest of us po' trash.

            _ it's now a fight to the finish>> Dean progressives v. Clinton centrists.

            by rhfactor on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  She is strong on foreign policy. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              brn2bwild

              So saying that is to run a "smear job" on Obama? I said nothing about Obama.

              Why everyone talking like they're so threatened? Your guy had a good night.

              •  Her comments on Iran and her Iraq vote (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                rhfactor, mcfly

                Her comment on obliterating Iran and her decision to give Bush the authority to invade Iraq are so terrbily indicative of her foreign policy acumen.

                Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain

                by Michi on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:23:23 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Obama will lurch to the right (0+ / 0-)

                  to prove he's not weak.

                  •  He hasn't yet. I don't expect him to now. (0+ / 0-)
                    •  You have no proof (0+ / 0-)

                      because he has no record. Except funding the Iraq war once he had skin in the game.

                      •  He has a substantial record. (0+ / 0-)

                        He has lead in the state senate on issues of civil rights, police interrogations and health care.  He has worked on nuclear disarmament, government transparency and ethics in the U.S. Senate.  There is plenty of a record and there is no evidence in it that he will be anything other than a progressive.  I suggest that you go to thomas.loc.gov or check out www.nationaljournal.com.  Both will show you that Obama has strong record as a progressive.  He wouldn't potentially be the nominee of the Democratic Party, if he was a Republican clone.  He wouldn't have stood up against the pressure.

                        •  No, he didn't lead. (0+ / 0-)

                          Somebody else did all the work, and a Chicaco kingmaker tacked Obama's name onto those bills. All in one year.

                          Barack Obama and Me:

                          It's a lengthy record filled with core liberal issues. But what's interesting, and almost never discussed, is that he built his entire legislative record in Illinois in a single year.

                          Republicans controlled the Illinois General Assembly for six years of Obama's seven-year tenure. Each session, Obama backed legislation that went nowhere; bill after bill died in committee. During those six years, Obama, too, would have had difficulty naming any legislative ­achievements.

                          Then, in 2002, dissatisfaction with President Bush and Republicans on the national and local levels led to a Democratic sweep of nearly every lever of Illinois state government. For the first time in 26 years, Illinois Democrats controlled the governor's office as well as both legislative chambers.

                          The white, race-baiting, hard-right Republican Illinois Senate Majority Leader James "Pate" Philip was replaced by Emil Jones Jr., a gravel-voiced, dark-skinned African-American known for chain-smoking cigarettes on the Senate floor.

                          Jones had served in the Illinois Legislature for three decades. He represented a district on the Chicago South Side not far from Obama's. He became Obama's ­kingmaker.

                          Several months before Obama announced his U.S. Senate bid, Jones called his old friend Cliff Kelley, a former Chicago alderman who now hosts the city's most popular black call-in radio ­program.

                          I called Kelley last week and he recollected the private conversation as follows:

                          "He said, 'Cliff, I'm gonna make me a U.S. Senator.'"

                          "Oh, you are? Who might that be?"

                          "Barack Obama."

                          Jones appointed Obama sponsor of virtually every high-profile piece of legislation, angering many rank-and-file state legislators who had more seniority than Obama and had spent years championing the bills.

                          "I took all the beatings and insults and endured all the racist comments over the years from nasty Republican committee chairmen," State Senator Rickey Hendon, the original sponsor of landmark racial profiling and videotaped confession legislation yanked away by Jones and given to Obama, complained to me at the time. "Barack didn't have to endure any of it, yet, in the end, he got all the credit.

                          "I don't consider it bill jacking," Hendon told me. "But no one wants to carry the ball 99 yards all the way to the one-yard line, and then give it to the halfback who gets all the credit and the stats in the record book."

                          During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law — including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked as inexperienced.

                          •  I've seen this article now three times. (0+ / 0-)

                            What is the source?  The Houston press?  Really?  Not a Chicago paper?  Not from a contemporary time, but a Houston paper and not even the Chronicle.  Please forgive if I don't believe it.  Read the Chicago papers.  Read other papers.  There's a substantial record there.  He was not handed his bills.  And his votes obviously weren't handed to him.  That you would bring up this article makes me wonder if you are just looking for a reason not to support him.  He has an excellent record and I hope you recognize that he is a million times better than McCain before November.

                          •  The paper belongs to a giant chain (0+ / 0-)

                            including the Village Voice. Nope, no Chicago papers have disproven that story.

                          •  The story is b.s. (0+ / 0-)

                            He passed bills in 1997, 1998 and 2000 in a Republican Senate with a Republican Governor.  He wasn't handed his bills.  I trust the Houston Press.  They have no credibillity with me whoever they are connected.  This a spin.  I know that Emil Jones helped someone who he thought was promising politician.  This does not mean that his bills were the result of Jones' largese.  That is evident by the fact that he got bills through a Republican Senate while Jones was in the minority.  He has a substantial record.  You don't just start to work across the aisle on the national level.  He's been doing it for years and getting things passed.

          •  No more for you. (6+ / 0-)

            I'm looking for a true word in your post, and I'm coming up empty, apart from her being 'a straight female' which is more than I know, and more than I want to.

            So long as men die, Liberty will never perish. -- Charlie Chaplin, "The Great Dictator"

            by khereva on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:19:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You're Crazy (7+ / 0-)

            Delusion is ugly to watch.

            Unless, that is, you're simply dishonest.

            The revolution will not be televised, but we'll analyze it to death at The Next Hurrah.

            by Dana Houle on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:30:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Great campaign? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Caesura, reid, drbloodaxe, miss SPED

            Proposing to enrich the oil companies for her short term political gain?  What does that remind me of, again?

            Running the elitist/gay/effete/rich/liberal playbook against the nominee?  Driving up her own negatives over 50%?

            That's great campaigning?

            Look, Obama isn't 100% pure here.  The McClurkin thing was pandering to bigots, too.  But I would never have pointed to that as great campaigning that should cause the rest of the party to respect him.  He earned my respect in spite of it.

          •  QUOTE without Comment, for evolved people (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mightymouse, Tom Enever


             title=

            _ it's now a fight to the finish>> Dean progressives v. Clinton centrists.

            by rhfactor on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:24:26 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The revisionist history (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rhfactor, TrueBlueMajority, reid

              is flying thick already.  Great campaign my butt.  Great campaign for a white male Republican running in a primarily white southern state, sure.  (Great in the sense that it would get him elected, not that it was appropriate or praiseworthy.)

              Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

              by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:44:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I have to wonder (7+ / 0-)

              how many of these HRC supporters are actually Republicans writing these sorts of posts.  This isn't a commentary on HRC herself, but rather on the Republican talking points that are so clear in that example above.

              I don't know any Democrats who trot out the "Ted Kennedy killed someone" line, but I've heard it from many, many Republicans.

              So "Operation Chaos" may extend beyond the polling place and into message boards/blogs.

              •  I wouldn't normally say it out loud (0+ / 0-)

                but plenty of us mentioned privately it when Teddy endorsed Obama.  It caused us to feel that the endorsement was even more anti-female because of his (Kennedy's) personal history.  How could it be ignored?  

          •  yuck (0+ / 0-)

            "hold her own on foreign policy" ????

            hold her own with whom - McCain? Kristol?

            no thanks

        •  It's a shame there's so much bad blood between (4+ / 0-)

          her and Obama. I just can't see him choosing her as VP.

          Because she'd be great in the traditional role of a campaigning VP: as the attack dog.

          (N.B. I am not saying this because I think Hillary's a dog, but because "attack dog" really is the VP's role in many presidential campaigns)

          "Problems can't be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" Einstein

          by Brecht on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:51:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I just can't help thinking (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Brecht, sarashina nikki, jemjo

            that unifying the party would be so easily accomplished by putting her on the ticket, that its got to be a consideration, bad blood or not.

            If Gilbert and Sullivan could put up with each other for 18 years, Obama and Clinton could put up with each other for 8. I would love to see Bill working the crowd for Obama. It might go a long way toward taking some of the tarnish off.

            "It's time for us to get serious and protect the companies that protect us," -- Mitch McConnell on the Protect AT&T act

            by PBCliberal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:49:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  i was watching the results (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TrueBlueMajority, PBCliberal

              tonight with one of my best friends, who also happens to be an ardent clinton supporter (i am a rabid obama fanatic).  It was difficult for us to do as neither are wavering...but we also agreed that people who wouldn't vote for the dem in the end were crazy.  she brought up the vp idea....i paused.  in the past i would have said "NO WAY!!!" but it made me stop and think.  In many places support is split almost evenly.  I don't think it would work in the end...but i had a moment of daydreaming..

            •  You'd lose those of us (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TrueBlueMajority

              who believe Obama to be a true change in politics, and not just a facade over 'same old same old'.  Taking her as VP, or anyone strongly of the DLC ilk, would destroy our belief in that.  I don't think those who that describes would vote for McCain, but maybe jut stay home or not vote in the presidential race.

              Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

              by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:47:09 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  HRC on the ticket brings (4+ / 0-)

            very little positives.  No states, and may bring out the Wingers to vote against the ticket.

            It's not a dream ticket, it's a nightmare.

            -6.5, -7.59. John McSame - running for Bush's third term. We can't afford it.

            by DrWolfy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:20:49 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  she would be a good attack dog (0+ / 0-)

            but Obama needs to pick someone with military credentials.

            Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
            Give to Populista's Obamathon 2.0!

            by TrueBlueMajority on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:29:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  You're playing to the meme. (7+ / 0-)

      90% of us don't 'Hillary Bash' or 'Hillary Hate' we call her on unacceptable non-Democrat behaviour.  We point out when she lies, and then use the shorthand 'liar' for 'person who tells lies'.  We point out when she panders by offering bandaid incentives that she herself has been opposed to in the past.  When she starts throwing mud and slime attacks we use the shorthand 'Republican', because that's how most of them campaign.

      It's not hate, although it might be disgust.  And it's not 'bashing', just like it's not 'bashing' Bush to call him out over torture, domestic unsupervised wiretapping, 'extraordinary renditions', lying 935 times to link Saddam to 9/11 and start an oil war, BS 'I'm above the law' signing statements, and on, and on.

      If that's 'bashing' then Satan himself has spent 2k years being 'bashed' by the combined Christian churches.

      Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

      by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:40:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes (15+ / 0-)

    Indeed.

    Take some cues from our guy.

    He's not demanding that she drop out.

    Peace.

    Will you help me raise $1000 for Jay Nixon who is running for Governor of Missouri.

    by aimeeinkc on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:57:09 PM PDT

  •  Rule #1 (45+ / 0-)

    speaking truth in the face of outright lies is not bashing.
    We don't need to bury the past in happy furry puppies. She did what she did and much of it was absolutely despicable. She can mend fences and go on. It's called accountability.
    Otherwise, I agree.

    The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same." Carlos Castaneda

    by FireCrow on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:04 PM PDT

  •  I don't know that Hillary had much of a presence (17+ / 0-)

    on the series of tubes here to begin with.  In fact, she struck me as looking down her nose at sites like this and decrying the "activist base" and so forth.  Respect is a two-way street.

    "You can't fight city hall. But you can crap on the steps and run away." - Alexei Sayle

    by Magnus Greel on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:58:34 PM PDT

  •  agreed -- (5+ / 0-)

    after tonight, let us never speak of her again!

  •  Got so toxic!?!? How did that happen???? (32+ / 0-)

    Sheez. You'd think someone had threatened to a splode Iran or gone after another candidate's religion or implied he might break into your house at 3am or something.

    "The jobs are never coming back, the illegals are never going home, but we're gonna have a lot more wars."

    by slaney black on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:00:17 PM PDT

  •  Premature... (19+ / 0-)

    Depends on what she does from here.  Does she continue to make the ridiculous argument that Fl. and MI should count as is?  Does she continue to throw the "kitchen sink" at Obama, running attack ads, race baiting, etc?"  Or does she bow out, or run a respectful campaign like Huckabee did.  That is the key.  And we don't know enough know to say, no more Clinton bashing.  

    •  Agreed. (6+ / 0-)

      If she chooses to run a low key "conciliatory" campaign the rest of the way, more for forms sake than anything else - I'll give her the graciousness she deserves.

      If she continues to throw the Kitchen Sink, well, she will not get a free pass.

      This is a struggle for the soul of the Democratic Party - the Liberal Roots vs the Corporatist DLC.  It goes beyond Obama vs Hillary - the future of Our Democracy is at stake - I for one will not hold anyhtingback to oppose thos who are trying to turn America into a Corporate Fiefdom...no matter what their party.

    •  True. If she continues "Scorched Earth"... (0+ / 0-)

      and runs like a Republican, the Clinton bashing will be FULL SPEED AHEAD!

  •  But look at Hillaryis44! (7+ / 0-)

    They went berserk! Take a look at some of their comments. It's hilarious!

    Hillaryis404 is a better site, in my opinion.

    Seriously, though, I agree with your sentiment.

  •  Not necessairly. (9+ / 0-)

    If Hillary decides to go with the nuclear option, if she continues to sling shit at Obama (and if it is taken seriously by the media)... people need to throw it back at her.

    Otherwise, yes, it is time for peace.

    Adopt a Shelter Dog!
    "No one worked harder to re-elect George Bush in 2004 than John McCain"

    by psycho liberal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:00 PM PDT

  •  This primary season has made me realize (13+ / 0-)

    that maybe this blog isn't really for me... I need to find a policy blog, not a politics blog.

    Dandelions are a NeoCon flower.

    by bhagamu on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:32 PM PDT

  •  It's not bad for her to stay in til May 20th (13+ / 0-)

    She'll win WV, it might look really embarassing if he gets trounced there while he's the only candidate left.

    She'll then win KY, he'll win Oregon, and then bow out gracefully.

    In the meantime both candidates will load their guns on McCain.

    They'll both win on the last day, it might do wonders for healing.  What's another 2 weeks, if she doesn't go scorched earth?

    (This coming from an ARDENT Obama supporter who worked his ass off for her in Minnesota, WI, and phone calling around the country)

    "We are the ones we've been waiting for"

    by badger195 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:01:52 PM PDT

  •  it's her turn (3+ / 0-)

    If she concedes, there is no Hillary-bashing.  If she doesn't, well, there is no deal.  Why would there be?

    Don't drink and blog. Think of the children.

    by RickD on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:02:20 PM PDT

  •  If she stops attacking (5+ / 0-)

    then yes.

    Otherwise? No.

  •  Well... (11+ / 0-)

    I never bashed her, I criticized her.  And I'll continue to do so until she does her duty.  This discussion tonight of "seating FL and MI", and "this is the tie breaker", I'm not ready to stop my active criticisms of her.  She gets out, I will not blame her for our loss if it happens, but she lost my respect and admiration (which I did have for her) as soon as she did her kabuki "shame on you Obama" speech.

    And actions like that have consequences.

    TexasDemocrat
    Giggity giggity giggity...Iraq's a Quagmire

    by TexasDemocrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:08 PM PDT

  •  I think her campaign will help Obama in the fall (9+ / 0-)

    So many of the attacks the Repubs would have been throwing his way have already been sent out by Clinton; they will be old news if the Repubs try trotting them out again in September.

    But yes, this place has been toxic towards Clinton for too long. It's resulted in a lot of good people who were NOT Clinton supporters leaving (as well as a lot of good people who were Clinton supporters).

    I understand some of the hostility towards her tactics, but she has, for the most part, been a top-notch senator who has done fantastic things in particular for children.

    She is a hero-- yes, a hero-- and when she concedes and returns to the Senate, she will be our ally almost all the time, just as she has been for so many years.

    "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

    by dedmonds on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:03:52 PM PDT

  •  Save face, Hillary, by dropping out NOW.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc, golconda2

    If she drops out in the next few days, then we'll stop bashing her.  If she continues on with this ridiculous charade, then no, the criticism go on.  

  •  I'm putting my brick down but (5+ / 0-)

    I'm keeping the bat until she concedes---just in case/

    "I'm not against all wars. I'm against dumb wars." Barack Obama

    by DWKING on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:05:47 PM PDT

  •  Truth comes first. Being agreeable comes second. (6+ / 0-)

    The day I think well of Hillary Clinton is the
    day she EARNS my respect by respecting the
    TRUTH in word and deed.

  •  Agreed (8+ / 0-)

    I can understand diaries about legitimate policy disagreements & even frustrations about campaign activities, but shit like this where names like "Vince Foster" are thrown around in the comments just go way over the line into that toxic territory.

  •  So let me get this straight (6+ / 0-)

    someone from a blog hurt someone's feelings, so they'd rather see John McCain as President of the United States of America?

    WTF!?!?!

    That'll show em! And then we'll hold our breath until we turn blue!

  •  I'm sorry, I live in NY. (15+ / 0-)

    I'm stuck with her as a Senator for several more years.  If she continues to behave like a Republican, I will continue to sharply criticize her.

    Her supporters are welcome, obviously -- I used to be one of them.

    -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

    by neroden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:11:34 PM PDT

  •  "Lets make a promise to end the Clinton bashing (0+ / 0-)

    tonight".  I'd say it's too late for that.

  •  I think your magnamity in victory is (10+ / 0-)

    commendable. However, I don't think Clinton supporters were run off this site as a purge or some deliberate action by Obama supporters. I won't rehash the whole history, but as nasty as it has gotten, it has more to do with the candidate and her campaign than in some character flaw in Obama supporters.

    So yes, let by-gones be by-gones, once HRC has conceded. I remember making a conciliatory comment here much like yours after Feb 6. Then the real toxic sludge starting flowing from the Clinton campaign. So no making nice until she graciously concedes.

  •  It ends when she leaves. (7+ / 0-)

    Just like when she'll stop bashing Barack along with her supporters.

    Look at Hillaryis44.org right now and see how racist they're being.

    No thanks. Not going to appear weak.

  •  there were never many Clinton supporters here (14+ / 0-)

    Look at the monthly polls going back to early last summer.  

    This has always been an anti-DLC blog, at least as long as I've been lurking.  Hillary Clinton epitomizes everything that's been wrong with the Democratic Party over the past twenty years.  

    There is no reason for a liberal democrat to not be representing New York in the senate.  If she was any other DLC  or blue dog Democrat from a blue state, there would be no question of the need to help finance a primary challenger.  She's no different than Steny Hoyer or Rahm Emanuael in that regard.

    Beating Hillary in the presidential primary is a good thing, but in the big picture, it's a small victory.  The goal is to reclaim the democratic party as a whole form the militarists and corporatists.  She needs to be defeated in the Senate as well.

    There is no hate for Hillary Clinton and there there never has been.  There's a strong nothing for what she represents and that's not going to go away.

    ---
    Guns don't kill people. Giant mutant insects kill people.

    by VelvetElvis on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:12:40 PM PDT

  •  I, for one, have never bashed her. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, mftalbot, stevej

    I'll be happy to work with her and her supporters.

    AFTER she concedes.  Not a second before.

    President JOHN McCAIN = George W. Bush's third term.

    by chumley on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:15:21 PM PDT

  •  I'm almost there - just need to hear "ding dong" (0+ / 0-)

    Progressives - stay UNDECIDED on 2008 -4.63 -7.54

    by AustinSF on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:16:35 PM PDT

  •  methinks... (15+ / 0-)

    Note:

    1. I support your diary 100% and, as an Obama supporter since before he announced, I will do my best to follow those principle.
    1. I have a substantial list of candidates who I've felt just as strongly about who haven't won (Gore, Dean, Edwards...)
    1. What I'm about to say is something I would follow if the shoe were on the other foot, as it was something I practiced following the defeat of aforementioned candidates.

    With that said, here is my advice:

    Take some time off of the internet/blogs until your feelings have cooled.  I'm astounded by how many pro-Clinton bloggers have been wailing about the negative effects of "Obamots" or whatever the word d'jour is.  In reality, you're masochistically exposing yourself to the most feverish of the devout... feelings are invariably going to collide in some pretty nasty arguments.

    So take a breather.  Read a book.  Find a local politician to channel your energy to.  Perhaps a month or two will re-energize you to pound some pavement for our nominee.  If a few batshit crazy bloggers was too much for you-- sorry, we'll hope that as a member of the reality-based community you will at least bring yourself to the polls in November to vote against McCain if nobody else.

    Most of all-- and this is something I had to do with John Kerry four years ago-- is to re-examine a candidate objectively once you've removed the lens of your own candidate.  

    Yeah, there will always be parts you don't like or agree with...there's a reason you didn't select them in the first place.  But don't close your mind to being pleasantly surprised.  Perhaps it's just going to take some time to be allow personal prejudices and objections to recede a bit-- I suggest doing this offline where scabs won't be so easily reopened.  

  •  No. (8+ / 0-)

    If she concedes, I'll suspend it until 2012, at which point I will most certainly support her primary opponent, whomever that happens to be.

  •  Conduct your triumph as a funeral.--Lao Tzu (14+ / 0-)

    There really is nothing more I can add to that.

  •  Agree and disagree (8+ / 0-)

    Yes, we need to be nicer to Hillary for pragmatic reasons.

    Yes, she deserves every bit of what she has received here. Her behavior has been completely unacceptable in this primary and it will forever cloud my view of her.

    Conservatism = greed, hate, fear and ignorance

    by Joe B on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:24:08 PM PDT

  •  Regardless of what she says or does... (6+ / 0-)

    we cannot expect to remain a party divided and beat McCain in the fall.  It is always easier for the "winner" to reach out a hand in friendship, allowing the other party to maintain their dignity.  It is difficult for someone who sees themselves as a "loser" to swallow their pride and admit they were on the wrong side of the fight.  If we really expect to change the world, we need to be able to start here at home, understanding that different people see the world through different eyes.  It's not right or wrong, just different.  

  •  Great idea (14+ / 0-)

    I just replaced my hrc bashing sig.

    Also, tonight I was thinking how I could make my own life a better reflection of the dream. I am working for Obama but I do have an (American) dream that I had begun to surrender.

    Focusing on the positive is much more empowering than knocking someone down.

    I want Obama for a president because I want to be happy about my country. It's a simple thing really.

    'Come back!' the Caterpillar called after her. `I've something important to say!'

    by lascaux on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:31:09 PM PDT

  •  I can't appreciate Hillary (7+ / 0-)

    for "her fine campaign" or for "making Obama a stronger candidate" (I think he's a pretty quick learner without the lessons she's provided).

    Obama will do a good job pulling together Democratic support, but you can bet your buttered bisquit the MSM and the Repubs will continue to talk about how divided the camps are.  They will try to divide us.  Don't fall for it!  

    All Democratic votes count for the same in Novemeber. Whether you came early, or came late, it makes no difference.    

  •  I don't bash I hold accountable (9+ / 0-)

    If you want to list specific examples of what you mean I will be more than happy to review. But the level of my distaste is most certainly warranted. The Clinton campaign and their surrogates have engaged in more than words, there has been some serious subversive activity. I take offense to any candidate's supporters who actively tries to suppress my right to vote - see Women's Voices, Women Vote. This is a serious charge I am making and I stand by it. Jack and Jill blog has a wikipedia charting every Clinton attack with evidence to back it up. Clinton destroyed their African-American support with no hesitation and assumed we'd come crawling back when we had no place to go. I will not forget and I will NOT FORGIVE! You don't try to suppress an entire group of people from voting not when my relatives were beaten and killed for the right to vote, not when people died just to have basic rights of courtesy. Other people on this site may have policy differences or want to play Oppression Olympics like it's a game but I am speaking from REAL events. We're talking from my mother's childhood, my grandparents' youth. I do not ignore history and I don't give someone who KNOWS BETTER a pass for that. She crossed us off her list at will so she is off mine and now that it is finally dawning on her campaign she can eat it! It was hers to lose and she it away. No democratic nominee will win with 39% of the base opposed to you.

  •  I agree - but the Clinton bashing was justified (6+ / 0-)

    By this point, her campaign tactics have become 100% Republican, and her issues started to drift that way. There was no excuse for this. I know the reason for it. She believes a win at all costs is justified because only she can win in November, and govern afterwards. That she and Obama were close enough on the issues that she couldn't campaign on those.  Well, it is our judgement that matters, not hers. And the fact is that the style of campaigning matters. If she had won with her tactics, a Democrat following the Rove playbook, which is exactly what it was, then she would have cemented in gotcha politics forever. Issues wouldn't matter anymore. Only stupid distractions of the level of Wright, "Plagiarism", "bitterness", distribution of pictures of candidates wearing turbans, etc., etc.

    Have the critical issues been discussed up until now at all? No, the media have spent all their time savaging the red meat that the Clinton camp has been throwing them.

    Now we have a chance to show this method won't work anymore, and start dealing with real issues. Voters have shown they can't be duped with dumb stuff like gas taxes. This is the only chance to pull our country out of the slide Bush has put it into.

    That is why we have been so passionate. There is little personal animosity against Clinton here - only against her campaign choices. And I agree that those who have such personal feelings need to let them go.

    "The only thing we have to fear - is fear itself." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    by orrg1 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:45:29 PM PDT

  •  And when the nomination comes in (3+ / 3-)
    Recommended by:
    RabidNation, nobody at all, Fozzie Bear
    Hidden by:
    Decih, DrWolfy, Osaka

    I will be singing the song from Wizard of Oz 'The Wicked Witch is Dead'.

    •  Miss the point much? (10+ / 0-)

      -8.75, -8.21 Another White Dude for Obama (4/25)

      by pacotrey on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:53:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope cuz you don't go into a gun battle (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        drbloodaxe, baltogeek

        with a knife. You don't tell you most loyal base - Black voters - that they should be grateful for all that was done for them by you and that they will come around once the primary is over when you set attacks dogs against them. You don't let wealthy white feminists tell the world they've been oppressed more than you and it's a woman's turn. Of course there is another woman running besides Hillary - who happens to be Black - Cynthia McKinney - but she doesn't count at all. When you are referring to 'woman' you mean Hillary and Hillary alone. You also don't have a not-so-very-secret plan to have the super delegates crown you as the nominee like the presidency is a family heirloom to hand down to the next generation.  You may start to get my point here but the bottom line is this is a battle and when it's won I have the right to celebrate with the victory song of my choice. I've earned it!

    •  Not helpful... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Decih, Scioto, Osaka

      -6.5, -7.59. John McSame - running for Bush's third term. We can't afford it.

      by DrWolfy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:30:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The McCain Bashing Begins TONIGHT! (9+ / 0-)

    Ok. It just gets more intense.

  •  No, no, no. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfern, khereva

    Nothing changes for me until Clinton bows out and endorses Obama.

    Vote for Evita Clinton, dump Howard Dean, bring back McAuliffe, end people-powered politics and restore triangulation.

    by expatjourno on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:53:39 PM PDT

    •  Nothing changes for Obama either (8+ / 0-)

      As Smash so aptly stated:

      We need to remember that this is the principle that Barack Obama has built his campaign on.  This is why his campaign is holding a 50 state voter registration drive.  This is why Obama volunteers have affectionately coined the term "Obamacans".  Barack Obama's campaign is about bringing together all people, regardless of race, gender, ideology, political leaning, or candidate they supported in the primary.  He has asked us to transcend the politics of negativity and division.  Even if others are not keeping up their end of the bargain, let's try to keep up ours.  

      Its time for O's supporters to actually behave like O.

      •  Uh, no. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DelRPCV, wu ming, alizard, drbloodaxe

        Its time for O's supporters to actually behave like O.

        It's not. I'm voting for him, not trying to be like him. That would be cultish.

        Vote for Evita Clinton, dump Howard Dean, bring back McAuliffe, end people-powered politics and restore triangulation.

        by expatjourno on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:27:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I have to agree with expatjourno (0+ / 0-)

        I'm voting for a 'better person' than me, not a me.

        If I wanted to vote for me, I'd be running.

        And I'll be as critical of his actions and policies when he's in office.

        I come not to bash, but to keep a close eye on the behaviour of the candidates and elected officials and to call BS when I see bad behaviour.

        Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

        by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:10:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so the answer to making a better world (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pinecone

          which I take to be a core Democratic value, is to stubbornly refuse to be a better person?  

          With all due respect, this is irrational.

          disclaimer: i support obama, i fight racism and sexism and other -isms, i was for edwards, hillary needs to sit down now

          by fernan47 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:53:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  A 'better person' (0+ / 0-)

            is critical of his representatives.  I'm not out there calling names, but I am calling BS when I see it.  Sweeping it under the rug doesn't make me a 'better person', it makes a hypocrite.

            Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

            by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:54:19 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  no one is calling for anyone to sweep (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pinecone

              anything under the rug.  Neither are people on this thread calling for forgiveness though that would not be  anathema.  There is a big difference between critique and vitriol, a big, big difference.  And vitriol will never, ever make for a better world.  This is coming from a person who is probably as angry as you have ever been but knows how damaging that can be, especially when not wielded strategically.  Any anger aimed at a Democrat with as much support as Hillary has is a strategic mistake, at best.  Anger can have its positive uses, but they are limited.  This is not the place or time.  

              This is all too serious to mess with.  Come on: everything is at stake.

              disclaimer: i support obama, i fight racism and sexism and other -isms, i was for edwards, hillary needs to sit down now

              by fernan47 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:11:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  It's Always Remained a Democratic Blog (3+ / 0-)

    But in the interest of reconciliation, I will let the thing speak for itself, as the lawyers say.

    We have a face-saving out for ourselves, in a way, by conceding that she could have had this wrapped up months ago except for an inept campaign. The blame for that can be compassionately directed to plausible targets other than the candidate.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:53:54 PM PDT

  •  She must not attack BO...and I agree (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ObamaManiac2008
  •  We need to fight for our Democracy (4+ / 0-)

    and it will need all of us Democrats to renew the promise of our first dreams as a nation, and to restore our nations principles.

    Senator Clinton has many loyal and hard working supporters.  She has been a worthy opponent, and I felt genuine liking and sympathy for Senator Clinton and her  family, and could see Chelsea's tenderness for her mother.

    I know this is not easy for Senator Clinton, her family or her supporters, and I pray that we can find renewed purpose in all that we must work for to restore our nation and our world.

    God bless you all!

  •  I cannot celebrate looking at the KY poll numbers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, judybrennan

    They are horrific.

    Hillary leads by 25-30%!
    If she wins by that much the media narrative will change again.

  •  Since Obama won, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rcald, DrWolfy

    can we please get back to the business of Democratic politics and community in general on the site?

    Will there be any need for the recent and recced diary list to be filled to the brim with diaries about Obama, to the point where you it's difficult to even pick something to read that is not about Obama?

    Or will it continue to be necessary, at all hours of the day, for every infinitesimal detail of life to be about Obama?

    The opposite of war is not peace, it's creation - Jonathan Larson (-6.62, -6.26)

    by AndyS In Colorado on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:01:34 AM PDT

  •  Respect is earned, and the Clintons have a lot to (6+ / 0-)

    answer for. I'm not piping down when I see trash.

    "Change doesn't happen from the top down,
    it happens from the bottom up." Barack Obama

    by shpilk on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:05:34 AM PDT

  •  Oh Ye of little faith! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nklein, fernan47

    A number of us came to this conclusion 6 weeks ago! welcome aboard!

    Support democracy at home and abroad, join the ACLU & Amnesty International http://www.aclu.org and http://takeaction.amnestyusa.org Your voice is needed!

    by tnichlsn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:19 AM PDT

  •  well, hmmm (4+ / 0-)

    "bashing" - I don't think I've done that about Hillary herself.  trading insults is another matter, but I'm happy to stop going that, given the dishonesty which fosters it stops as well, which I fully expect it to.

    but as far as picking petty fights with Clinton supporters, yes I hope we can all on this side of the aisle, and those who were fighting for Senator Clinton on her side as well, I hope we can stop.  that doesn't mean stifling disagreement, Obama has pledged to listen to people.  if he has policy proposals anyone doesn't like, I encourage them to contact the campaign and tell them just that.  but the choice at hand is going to be Barack Obama vs. John McCain.  Hillary Clinton fought hard, strengthened Obama by bringing out contentious issues - and despite her questionable tactics, still has an opportunity to redeem her cause overall.

    this is like nothing else that has ever occurred in my lifetime.  can you imagine the night of the election?  can you imagine the night of the inauguration?  I don't mean to get ahead of myself, but I think that it helps to imagine these things and try to dream them into reality.  the night Barack Obama is sworn in as President of the United States will be, in a certain special way, the greatest day any of us was around to witness.

    Do we have any figures on how scared they are? ~ MPFC's 'Mr. Neutron' episode

    by itsbenj on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:24 AM PDT

  •  All Dems need to be together to win in Nov n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, nklein, smash artist
  •  C'mon people.. (7+ / 0-)

    Shine on your brother (sister?)
    Everybody get together
    Gonna beat McCain in November,
    Right now.

  •  Obama is the nominee. United we move forward. (8+ / 0-)

    Obama Supporters, Clinton Supporters and Edwards Supporters.

     title=

    "Beware the terrible simplifiers" Jacob Burckhardt, Historian

    by notquitedelilah on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:25:50 AM PDT

  •  speak for yourself (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alizard, mediaprof

    as hunter s. thompson once wrote of nixon, i kicked her when she was up, and am not going to stop kicking her just because she's down.

    the  again, i speak as a citizen and a democrat first, not an amateur spokesperson for the obama campaign. no quarter for corporatists and warmongers, not even if they have a D next to their name.

    surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

    by wu ming on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:35:06 AM PDT

  •  HOORAY OBAMA! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judybrennan, BenMac84

    and a call to end being held hostage to political abuse and the political hostage crisis threatened by Clinton supporters. Tonight is a great glorious night for Obama supporters. We need to, more than deserve to relish the sweetness of our hard work, our sucesses, the beauty in our resilience and resolve in spite of ALL the kitchen sink garbage that has been thrwon our way. This diary is reflective of an abusive spouse that dares their abused partner to come back to the relationship or risk the threat of being hunted down and killed if they ever get their hands on you. This is Obama's glorious win. How dare a HRC supporter jumping in and dousing our parade with more kitchen sink tactics with a thinly veiled threat to boycott the Democratic party nominee-OBAMA. No we do not need kitchen sink residue. YES this victory is all about us and where we stand. We stand in the light of Obama. Hillary deliberatly hurt a fellow democrat, maliciously, with clear intent to morally wound and hurt one of her own, and NOW we must not enjoy that good prevailed? Nor are we supposed to call Hillary on any of her Karl Rove playbook tactics less we are "Hillary bashing".  Trust is earned not an entitlement. My last response to this type of Hillary supporters "you need us" lack of accountability/hostage vote diary. Silence is golden.

    Yes We Can!
    Obama/Weiss '08
    Weiss:(NC 82 yrold granny) "You gotta be President!"

  •  I resent your presumption (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judybrennan

    We are not the bad guys.

    "They blamed it on the Islamic fanatics, at the time. [...] That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary."-Handmaid's Tale

    by JLFinch on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:44:48 AM PDT

  •  half full view (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rcald

    I agree with some that Clinton, in some aspects, she had a better program, and it was rewarded.  She also deployed a bevy of cheap tricks, and at least some of them got discredited in the process, including the gas tax rebate, and it was really nice to see that you can get only so far with them.

    Half-empty glass view is that she was competitive because of cheap tricks, which will be used by McCain to the hilt, and dragged down by progressive parts of her program, which McCain does eschew, of course.  But I really hope not.

  •  The diarist is correct to admit bad behavior (10+ / 0-)

    I went to MyDD tonihght and read some former writers from this site. What struck me was the "bitter" content and tone of their postings,especially aimed at various pundits or media personalities that were supporting or at least not bashing as abviously Obama! Supporting Buchanan obver rachel madow! Wow!

    the strange thing was,their comments were in tone and style not too different from those on here lately. They were in the minority here and got made to feel unwelcome.

    Right at the time the big flame wars/purge/sanctions were laid on, I lost my "housekeeping privileges", HR and uprating. About two weeks ago they came back. The strange part for me is I was not a special fan of anyone except Edwards right at the end of his campaign. I would defend HRC as a democrat, with facts or a bit of history and get exactly zero responses for it most of the time. That was a harbinger of what was to come.

    Now Hillary Rodham Clinton,who was considered the toughest candidate the Democrats had and a juggernaut rolling into the Presidency has been upstaged and outcampaigned by a younger landmark candidate. That is sort of what happened in 1992,two able politicians teamed up and got the presidential nod for WJ Clinton. We need to heal our own site, as well as reach out the long time loyal supporters of HRC and many good Democrats both activist and once in two year voters and get their confidence up and enthusiasm to join with ours.

    I believe when I see Barry Welsh double and more the vote of Mike Pence in Indiana we are in for a fighting chance to shine in Indiana in the GE. We can do great things this year. It isn't solely a Presidential fight,  although that is the headline match,we need to bring in the majorities in all 3 areas. To do the big things,we need the clout to get it done. And we have to repair and reclaim our party as united engine for change, not a bunch of tribes fighting for turf and influence, be it on blogs or in various offices.

    McCain: Unlike most Repub licans, he HAS dropped bombs on a people and country that did not attack America. It fits: Warmonger

    by Pete Rock on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:57:21 AM PDT

  •  I'm not ending anything. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, soms

    That said, I used to love her, and her husband.  And if she would just play nice, maybe I could kind of, sort of, in some way, not really get back there, but stop hating her.  Her speech tonight, or parts of it, were good.  I hate Lanny Davis and James Carville, because they appear to lie for a living, and that won't change, but if HIllary wants to do the decent thing, then, well, that would be cool.

  •  I am from NYC, and was a Clinton fan, four months (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JBL55, soms, From a distance

    ... but everything changed, this past season ....

    This is NOT "Clinton Bashing", this is me speaking my heart.

    I must confess, I do not appreciate certain actions of the "lady" Clinton,
    and I say this as one who prior to four months ago was a Clinton fan myself,
    and I say this as a life long New Yorker, and she is hardly this.

    I will now never vote for her if she chooses to run again for the New York Senate,
    .... nor will I vote for her for any public office.

    She has lost my respect and trust, and I am being nice here.

    I am being polite.

    I have seen too much in this last season.

    I have learned too much.

    I have discovered too much.

    I have heard too much.

    So let it be known, that I do embrace all those who honor our country
    and who honor what we need in order to heal, mend, and rebuild our nation.

    I honor all those who are honest,
    and who are forthright,
    and who demonstrate true integrity
    and true respect for our country,
    for our people,
    and for our planet.

    ~

    But to the "lady" Clinton, I say this ...

    She has much to answer for,
    much to explain,
    and much to set right,
    before I will give her even the time of day.

    Sorry, but, I excuse nothing.

    >>> Business as usual politic? >>> One might say?

    I say unto thee, NEY!

    This is hardly acceptable behavior for a leader of honor, nobility, and true grace.

    We need to set an example for a new age.
    We need to set an example for the next generation.
    We need to set an example for the world to follow.

    In the time of our nation's greatest need, I saw something very dark
    and ill, the worst of our country's fear driven politic, much less did
    I see the kind of leadership character that I myself strive for in
    my own life path, study, and training in martial disciplines, wherein
    one's heart and spirit shines as a beacon with every move, gesture,
    breath and word.

    Purity of heart is all that matters to me.

    Purity of path.

    Purity of intent.

    And yes, it matters. It matters dearly.

    It matters in the most dire of ways.

    This and these are sacred and must never be forsaken for a mere political gain.

    This is the very heart of the illness that has infected our nation's leadership
    for far far too long, and this is what must be overcome. This is the real battle.
    This is the real war ... a war of spirit and heart.

    Thrice I say this.

    Everything matters.

    Everything matters.

    Everything matters.

    The actions I have seen are inexcusable and this is why she lost. And she needs to know this.

    She has much to learn about what it means to be a true leader of people.

    Her loss was not due to race nor gender nor anything of the kind. It was nothing
    more than her simple plain lack of honor, integrity and respect, that drove her
    supporters to Obama ... and everyone knows this ...

    For those with eyes to see, let them see.

    No one who follows their own heart, with honor and integrity, is a Judas.

    To thine, own, self, be true,
    and it must follow,
    as the night, the day,
    thou canst not then be false to any man.

    Mark my words, my friends, my compatriots .........

    Barack Obama will win this primary, and then he will win the general election,
    and this will be the single most seminal thing of our age, but what will make
    it seminal, is not the fact that he is a man of color.

    I say to thee, Ney!

    What will make it seminal is that he will have won the Presidency, due to his
    honor, integrity, and respect IN SPITE OF BEING A MAN OF COLOR ...

    ... because we have not had a leader of our country whose spirit
    is forged by a path of honor, integrity and respect, in an age!

    .... and THAT is what will make his Presidency seminal.

    I bid you all, peace,

    Namaste,
    Satnam,
    Ubuntu,

    Arthur,

    ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

    Namaste = I Salute the Magnificence in you.
    Satnam = True Name.
    Ubuntu = The interconnectedness of all life.

    ~ if you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention ~

    ~ move sooner, not faster ~

    ~we study the old to understand the new~from one thing know ten thousand~to see things truly one must see what is in the light and what lies hidden in shadow~

    by ArthurPoet on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:12:43 AM PDT

  •  In the GE we can do the most important (5+ / 0-)

    thing: win on the grounds that are ideas are superior.  We have not had a Dem nominee who really ran on the ideas of our party since Mondale and he got clocked.  Now we can run on ending the war in Iraq, fighting global warming, moving towards universal health care and making the tax system fairer to middle and lower class workers and not be so fucking ashamed about it.  And if we do that - and I think Obama will - the change we want will start to be achieved.

    We don't have to engage in personal bashing of McCain.  We can beat him on the merits of our positions and use his flip-flopping on those issues of proof of their delinquency.

  •  On the other hand, as my Dad used to say (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nobody at all, JBL55

    the best time to kick someone is when they are down.   Then, you are sure they will stay down.   Smart guy, my Dad.

    Having credibility when making an argument is the straightest path to persuasion.

    by SpamNunn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:35:55 AM PDT

    •  Rec for making me laugh ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TrueBlueMajority

      You remind me of the advice to never criticize someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes.  That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their shoes.

      But seriously, I really like "Kumbaya."

      "War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate." - Marvin Gaye (-5.25, -4.97)

      by JBL55 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:12:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with the message of this diary (3+ / 0-)

    Although I often fall into the same trap of lashing out in a personal way towards Hillary supporters. And I used to think alot of Hillary. But now almost everything they say is so infuriating that I am at a loss of coherent and reasoned argument.

    The reason I moved towards Obama is I was very impressed by the way he could attack positions without attacking people. He cares how people feel; he realizes that it is a detriment to him and to America if he makes other people, even people he disagrees with, feel victimized, bitter or insulted. He realizes that hurt feelings often stand in the way of progress, because people who agree on certain issues will not coalesce around a cause because they are so angry with each other over some fight that took place around a completely different issue and turned ugly.

    I think when Obama was giving his speech tonight, he was speaking to his own base as much as he was appealing to those who opposed him, when he championed a message of unity. I noticed how people booed and jeered when he made reference to Hillary's (apparent) victory in Indiana. (I myself was hissing at the teevee screen.) I also noticed that when he said she was a formidable candidate, there was such a sudden silence in the room, people chuckled and sneered.

    The hostility toward Hillary was tangible. It was almost embarrassing, because that hostility clashed so awkwardly with the words that were coming out of Obama's mouth. Those of us who are with Obama, and who have our eyes open, will see that hostility and say, RIGHT ON. But anyone else looking in... I can see how they would be turned off.

    I'm not saying it isn't justified.
    I'm saying it isn't smart.

    Now is the time for us to be generous and gracious. We can afford to be. After all... we've won :)

    </speech that was way too long and probably not coherent... going to bed smiling about out victory.... peace....>

  •  Ditto (0+ / 0-)

    Feingold is my hero.

    by Marc in CA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:46:17 AM PDT

  •  go to http://www.jasmynecannick.com (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DelRPCV, Dumbo, davidkc

    listen to the audio she got of one of the 'Super' delegates talking how it's going to be a back-door deal and brokered convention to give Hillary the nomination. I just listened to this and I am PISSED OFF! There is no reconciling with an enemy while you are in active mortal combat and they are trying to take you out. IT IS NOT OVER PEOPLE. Any sense of fairness and propriety on our side will be met with a sword to our heads.

  •  A Politic Response Does Not Preculde Discipline (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird

    Senator Clinton has violated several key political rules with her "commander-in-chief test" endorsement of McCain, to name just one of her recent pro-McCain arguments.  There are, and should be, consequences for such transgressions, starting with a vastly diminished role through the rest of the campaign.  I hope that Democratic leadership extracts an apology and an agreement to stay out of venues like Fox, where she will be asked to explain again and again what she meant and why it doesn't count in November, as its price for her continued relevance.  We will see enough of her in McCain's attack ads.  

  •  why should I? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judybrennan

    She tried her best to destroy Obama. Not this time. Until she appologize, she get no respect from me.

    For every action there's consequence. She must bear responsibility to deeply wounding the democratic party.

    Go back to NY Hillary. Just go away.

    •  Because You'd Like To Win In November? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      brn2bwild, Scioto, fernan47

      Assuming that's more important to you than holding onto your anger, of course.

      •  Winning isn't everything (3+ / 0-)

        if you have to become your foe to win, you lose even in winning.

        I only want to win with a candidate who will actually uphold the ideals of the Democratic party.  And sweeping bad behaviour under the rug isn't one of those ideals.  Bad behaviour rates criticism.  Not 'bashing', but honest criticism of lies, pandering, and smear tactics.  Throwing on a 'happy face' and pretending otherwise just enables more of same, and draws the Dem party ever closer to the Republican side.  

        Dems HAVE to be different, otherwise the Naders of the world can show people that both parties are essentially the same, and wind up handing the election to Republicans.

        Got a problem with my posts? Email me, and let's resolve it.

        by drbloodaxe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:20:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  It ain't over yet. (6+ / 0-)

    Don't we wish.

    The issue is if/when will Hillary concede?  And, honestly, I do not think this thing is over yet.

    I agree with Rachel Maddow.  The Clintons have staked out a "Scorched Earth" strategy that will allow them to play this thing out to the convention, unless the media just finally lose interest in them and quit egging them on.  They could have WON both primaries tonight, and it would not have made any difference.  Their campaign has not been about winning for a while now.

    So, I extend my hand graciously to all Clinton supporters, but at the same time I have to warn everybody, it ain't over yet.  Not until the Clintons say uncle.

    You know, we had diaries like this before, like after Wisconsin, and just before TX/OH, saying we have to get ready to be gracious to the losing candidate and her supporters, only to find out the fight wasn't over.

    Unless I hear the Clintons say they are withdrawing, I'm not buying it.

  •  I will be watching and listening (6+ / 0-)

    very carefully to see which road she decides to take in WVA.  

    The ball is in her court - and she has the ability to rein in her most vocal supporters/surrogates and put them in check.  

    If they continue to push the "Obama only won NC because the early voters didn't get a chance to switch becaise they voted before Rev Wright meme" which I heard loud and clear last night, and if she falls prey to the temptation to use WVA as a clarion call (dog whistle soapbox) to incite the lowest instincts in the electorate, I don't see any need to sit idly by with my mouth shut.  

    I am not talking about the crew at Hillary44 which I don't read anyway, or even the most vocal people at MyDD.  Let's see what her staff and TV surrogates do.  

    Obama takes the high road with her anyway.  

    Good diary - and noble thoughts.  
    My thoughts to Hillary - "Show me".

    Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing McCain perversity

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:55:17 AM PDT

  •  DK has not served Barack well (10+ / 0-)

    the site went from being a Democratic blog (at least in respect to the presidency) to an Obama blog.  In the process of doing that, we have managed to be hostile enough to run the large majority of Clinton supporters off this site.

    This site's overboard nastiness towards HRC made this Obama voter leave the site for the primary season. What kind of "progressives" are we if we're so hateful? We couldn't make any mild constructive criticisms of BHO without being called concern trolls. Sheesh! Daily Kos as a devoted Obama blog is not a safe place for fair-minded progressives. And not only did DKos become an Obama blog, it became a single-minded, hyper-protective Obama blog that has actually weakened him by withholding our best, honest, bark-off strategy advice which is for his benefit but not always adulatory.

    •  sorry, but i think any objective oberserver (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      drbloodaxe

      would know the bullshit the clinton campaign has pulled the first half of this year. and it's not being hyper-protective of calling ppl on their bs, esp. when there is SO MUCH crap coming from all sides.

      look, ppl always want to emasculate him bc he doesn't fight back. and if he fights back, then he's not "the politics of hope."

      the least we, supporters, can do is fight for him when there is a scorched earth campaign run against him. (see abc debate)

      we all get overzealous at times, but if clinton supporters think that we're gonna give them a pass esp. if she tries to pull that 2209 delegate count with florida and michigan, all bets are off.

    •  I disagree, DKos is a progressive blog and (0+ / 0-)

      chose to back the only Progressive left in the race. That Progressive happened to be Barack Obama.

  •  Time to unite the party... (4+ / 0-)

    And it must START with us.

    I hope Hillary will begin to heal the rift as well.  But, we must be gracious.

    -6.5, -7.59. John McSame - running for Bush's third term. We can't afford it.

    by DrWolfy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:09:11 AM PDT

  •  It's time and PAST time to end the bashing (5+ / 0-)

    it's time to start hitting McCain, and hitting him and hitting him.

    Polls show a close race in November, folks.  

    Hillary has fallen, and she can't get up.  

  •  Let Obama run, Hillary please get out! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Subversive
  •  Thank you Clintonites (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    judybrennan, JBL55

    ..for helping to vet Obama with that silly Wright nonsense and so on, and making him a stronger candidate in the end.  Clinton was a strong competitor, you are respectable Democrats, and tonight we accept your concession for the good of the Party and towards a landslide Democratic victory in the fall.

    Vote John Edwards and break the corporate media stranglehold on American politics.

    by Subversive on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:43:03 AM PDT

  •  I agree with a lot of the commenters. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, davidkc, BDsTrinity

    I have no interest in "bashing" Hillary, but I also don't give her a free pass. If she wants to talk about her campaign, then I don't see, and in fact have never seen, a need to respond negatively. However, if she persists in bashing the presumptive nominee, then I reserve the right to show her arguments for what they are, as always.

    That said, I think there's little gained by attacking Clinton supporters dealing with a tough situation this week, and I'll be less likely to respond to minor slights with a flamethrower.

    What it is time for is for all of us, Obama supporters, Clinton supporters, and Sen. Clinton herself, to recognize that Barack Obama is going to be our nominee, and to focus our attention on beating John McCain, instead of beating up each other. Finally.

  •  Help me deal with my sense of betrayal by HRC (7+ / 0-)

    When the Democratic Primary got down to Barack and Hillary, I had some concerns about both candidates.  But I would always say that the Democrats had two amazing and "historic" candidates.  What a problem to have?  I would be happy if either one got the nomination.

    When Hillary Clinton started the kitchen sink and scorched earth strategy, I couldn't believe it. I was shocked and disappointed.  I felt a sense of betrayal that made me said and angry. For example...

    1. It was reported that someone on HRC's team sent out the picture of Barack in native Kenyan garb in an attempt to smear him.  
    1. It has been reported that Sidney Blumenthal was sending out emails to Clinton supports and some right wing contacts in an attempt to smear Barack.
    1. It was reported that HRC was actively pushing the Pastor Wright controversy and using it as leverage with the super delegates.  
    1. There was an attempt to use the Ayers (Weatherman) issue against Barack.
    1. Hillary pushed the Rezko connection against Barack.
    1. Hillary actually said that she and John McSame had passed the Commander In Chief test and that Barack, a fellow Democrat had not.

    I understand that politics ain't bean bag as they say.  And I understand that both sides have to do opposition research.  And I am not saying that Barack's supporters and surrogates have not gotten out of line with the Clinton bashing.  

    I think both sides have to take a look at their behavior.  But on balance, I think Barack ran a cleaner campaign.  Barack always got into trouble when he tried to go negative against Clinton in response to her attacks.  Barack has admitted that he told his staff that they had slipped into the negative mode too many times.  

    He never wanted the campaigning to get negative.  It was against what his campaign was all about. He was walking a tightrope.  If he didn't respond to the attacks he would look weak.  If he responded too aggressively, he would be accused of going negative.

    Bottom line, I totally agree with the premise of this diary.  Democrats need to unite and go after John McSame and not each  other.  

    I just want the HRC supporters to understand the sense of betrayal I felt about the way Hillary attacked Barack.  It really hurt.  The pain I felt is just as legitimate as the pain the HRC supporters are feeling now.

    I don't hate HRC. I am disappointed that things got so ugly.  Let the healing begin.  

    •  Don't forget all the racially divisive tactics (4+ / 0-)

      Hillary slamming Martin Luther King; Hillary dismissing her loss in Louisiana and other states because they have large black populations; Hillary saying Obama's not a Muslim "as far as I know"; Bill Clinton comparing Obama's SC win with Jesse Jackson's win; Geraldine Ferraro and George McGovern saying that the only reason Obama was winning was because he was black and/or because it was easier for a black man than a white woman.  And on and on and on.  Hillary's use of race-baiting, racially divisive tactics are what I find more unforgivable and the biggest betrayal of Democratic values.  She's created rifts in the party that we may never be able to heal.

    •  Paging Desmond Tutu (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TrueBlueMajority

      I just want the HRC supporters to understand the sense of betrayal I felt about the way Hillary attacked Barack.  It really hurt.  The pain I felt is just as legitimate as the pain the HRC supporters are feeling now.

      Perhaps we Dems need a Truth & Reconciliation Commission.

      "War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate." - Marvin Gaye (-5.25, -4.97)

      by JBL55 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:17:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I Don't Think So (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc

    The sentiment is all warm and fuzzy but I suspect that many won't be able to refrain when the Clintons are unable to face reality and leave Hillaryland - the only place where Fla. and Mich. count as legitimate victories.

    I am with Tom Hayden on this:

    It must be understood that the Clintons are beyond persuasion or capable of thinking beyond their own interests, at least not on their own. Left to their own repetitive patterns, they will step up the attempt to damage Barack Obama so that he is rendered unelectable in the minds of the superdelegates. At the very least, beginning this week, this may mean an assault on Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground, and a twisted depiction of Obama's history of statements on the Palestinians. ....

    The Obama forces cannot [and will not] coast to victory. In terms of issues, they should intensify the focus on the Clinton proposal for "massive retaliation" and "obliteration" against Iran on behalf of Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. That was front-page news in Toronto yesterday while receiving zero attention in the New York Times and CNN. Barack should take up Robert Kennedy's 1968 anti-poverty mission in West Virginia. Finally, his campaign needs to build firewalls in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota to maintain his lead.

    A good tactic is one your people enjoy. Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals

    by tryin to make it real on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:06:41 AM PDT

  •  Thanks, but no (4+ / 0-)

    I don't ever "bash" Hillary, but I call her out on her BS and her negative, divisive, nasty comments tactics whenever it is warranted, and I will continue to do so.  Hillary has not dropped out, and she may still decide to fight this all the way to the convention, and I for one and not about to drop my guard until this thing is over.  Hillary keeps saying she's "tough" and a "fighter," so she can handle it.

  •  Well said! Remember ... (6+ / 0-)

    We support a candidate who wants to rise above the politics of division.  That promise will ring hollow, and the premise of the administration collapse, if we cannot rise above divisiveness in our own party.

    We've heard Barack say that we need to be the change we want to see in the world.  Reaching out to Clinton supporters is an important first step -- and frankly, will probably be a lot easier for many of us than accommodating Republican voters that we will need to win and to govern.  

    Let's show that this is not just a campaign of rhetoric, but of action.

  •  You're right, but it won't work (4+ / 0-)

    If Hillary continues to run she will continue bashing Barack. It's the only way she knows how to run, and Mark Penn is sitting behind her feeding her toxic ideas. She will use every wormy trick in the book to get the Supers to commit to her and try to get the elected delegates to switch. How is this going to play on Daily Kos? Couple this with the massive fraud that she and Bill have played on Blue Collar working Democrats, that is, sending their jobs to Mexico and China while raking in 10's of millions personally. She has actually gotten away pretty clean, considering.

    On the other hand, she could concede. The Hillary bashing will stop at that point.

  •  Great idea, I only hope... (3+ / 0-)

    ...she doesn't feel like she has to push the envelope. Because while I feel the party -- and Obama -- need to see this thing simmer down, I don't think for one minute that she herself deserves a free pass for what she's pulled and what she still may pull out of her bag of tricks.

    In the afterglow of a good night last night, we can speak in terms of Kumbaya, but it will be interesting to see how well we can all stick to it when she starts pushing the envelope and expecting us to turn the other cheek. I know it will be hard for me, not because she disappointed me, but because she didn't, and I see her behavior as not a temporary fit of fighting spirit but simply who she is.

    So I'll try, but this near atheist asks, "Pray for me." I am, after all, only human. And I'm fiercely loyal.

    Will the last one out of democracy please turn out the lights?

    by Apphouse50 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:10:13 AM PDT

    •  i will pray for you (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bubbalie 517, Apphouse50

      i love to pray for near atheists!

      if you with your beliefs can make a good faith effort to turn the other cheek, then I am challenged as a Christian to live up to the same standard.

      I have been embarrassed frankly about how badly I have held to that standard over the last few months.  I look at the humiliating personal attacks that previous social justice activists endured without fighting back, yet I cannot hold my tongue in the face of a few words of dangling bait on a political blog?  What does that say about me?

      So I am inspired by you, Apphouse50.  In the afterglow of last night's victories, I pledge to stop and reconsider and bite my tongue and turn the other cheek and see how long I can manage to hold out the olive branch in spite of getting my hand slapped.  I will do this in the spirit of Obama's call for unity, in response to this and other diaries on the same subject, and in honor of the people who came before me who managed to put up with so much more.

      Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
      Give to Populista's Obamathon 2.0!

      by TrueBlueMajority on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:09:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama asked us last night to let it go. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TrueBlueMajority, Scioto, Apphouse50

        He's right and I was so relieved to hear him say that. We need to remember his request any time Senator Clinton or her supporters say or do something that is less than kind. THEY are responsible for their behavior...we are responsible for ours.

      •  Wow, thanks! I rarely inspire Christians... (0+ / 0-)

        ...not that I don't mean to!

        If it's any comfort to you, I notice that a lot of blog sites that leaned heavily Obama are being very restrained with the fiery rhetoric today.

        Of course, as the days go by and she and her campaign people test our patience, I think something divine will be needed to mind our tongues.

        Keepin' my fingers crossed, pagan that I am.

        Will the last one out of democracy please turn out the lights?

        by Apphouse50 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:40:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is premature -- I'm waiting to see (5+ / 0-)
    how HRC handles this.  I recieved the following message from a Hillary supporter late last night:

    "You guys will have to rip the nomination from her cold dead fingers and she will destroy the party if you do. Crazy, but dead on"

    Don't break out the group hugs just yet...

    •  agreed, this is premature (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TrueBlueMajority, sumo

      My prediction is that Hillary will continue her scorched earth strategy, unless the superdelegates come out in droves to support Obama in the next few days.

    •  Dead woman destroys party is literally crazy... (0+ / 0-)

      ...think about it. So I agree. No group hugs yet, although I know for a fact that BO sees himself as unifying the party, the existence of crazied Clintonian s notwithstanding.

      Since he has the experience with the sharp-elbowed Chicago basketball games and I am a latte-lapping liberal from the save haven of the BlueBayState, I have to believe he knows something I don't know.

  •  The diarist is right. We've got a great (5+ / 0-)

    victory here. Let's follow Obama's lead. I think it is time to begin the healing process. I don't believe the Clinton campaign is going to engage in any more destructive campaign tactics.

    They are disappointed, just like we would have been this morning if Barack had lost. So, perhaps, we can watch and see how they handle the slow walk to concession.

    I don't think pounding on Hillary serves any of us well.

    I think Obama took the high road to bringing the party together last night. As mad as some of us are are at the Clintons, myself included, I think we should cool our heels and work to bring everyone together. Not an easy task, but it's worth it.

  •  The campaign is OVER (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, FishBiscuit

    Hillary must gracefully bow out ASAP so we can heal and unite as a party and go after John McCain. There is no longer any reason for her to remain in the race. Yes, she can win WV, KY, and PR, but so what! If she stays in, then she is telling the party that this is all about her and not the best interest of the Democratic party. She fought hard, and she did help Barack get stronger by staying in as long as she did. But now her duty and obligation is to do everything she can to help Barack Obama becomes President Obama. Anything less than that will not endear me to her or her husband.

    The writing is on the wall, and it says OBAMA!

    YES WE CAN!

  •  So, it's Obama supporters who must stop (5+ / 0-)

    what they're doing now? Haha. That's almost like Obama  and Clinton are standing on a stage. Clinton is attacking him, while he stands perfectly still and not saying a word. But when she is finish attacking him, she waits for him to shake her hand and smile.

    She can call for unity, but I do not want them campaigning for him. It will seem really fake. After all that has been said, it just won't seem legit.

  •  Okay, then, I'll let the picture speak for itself (0+ / 0-)

    'Hillary Clinton gets it'-David Duke

    by Bob Sackamento on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:21:51 AM PDT

  •  On Bashing and Reconciliation (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, FishBiscuit

    I don't recall the Dean folks all thinking -- its time to stop bashing Kerry and "forgive" him for the crap he pulled on Dean circa 2004.

    I do recall the Kerry folks getting nicer and more conciliatory.

    Winning doesn't obligate you to come hat in hands and to make amends.  Being the dick does.

    I appreciate 100% the sentiment of this diary.  Color me childish and less of a person for not being quite ready to be the INITIATOR of the olive branch extension ceremony.

    Let the HRC supporters take a deep breath.  A step back.  A realization that HRC was a ^&%C* (fill in your own expletive here) in this campaign.

    Then, when they've come to their senses, lets kiss and make up.

    I fncking hated John Kerry in the Spring of 2004.  By June, I was his biggest supporter / mouthpiece / apologist, etc.

    In due time, folks. In due time.  The "I'll never vote for Obama" poll numbers are nonsense.

    Cheers,

    MRL

    "Screw 'em" - Hillary Rodham Clinton, commenting on Southern Whites in 1995.

    by MRL on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:29:53 AM PDT

  •  Jerome Armstrong (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc, judybrennan

    Can we still bash her petty supporters?

    Take this from Jerome Armstrong at MyDD:

    The "official" Obama nomination tour will have to do a detour into the land of unelectability (for him).

    Obama supporters should be better, but bullshit like that statement makes it incredibly difficult.

  •  Jonathan Martin's blog on Politico (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, jazzyndn, redtex

    rarely has any significant Democratic presence. It's a right wing echo chamber. Here's a thought - move to the right wing blogs and start pushing and linking to negative McCain stories. Let's pressure the MSM to cover McCain's controversies as vigorously as we've sought to spread negative information about HRC. Channel that Hillary-inspired anger and direct it to its proper place - the real partisan battle that lies ahead.

  •  To a great extent, it's up to her. (0+ / 0-)

    If she and Bill want the Clinton legacy to be a McCain victory in November, there's not a lot we can do to stop them from working in that direction--and even less she can do to stop the vitriol from these quarters. They need to understand that such a result would be the end of her national career, other than maybe a few Naderesque forays in the future. If she thinks sabotaging Obama in '08 will improve her chances in '12, she is a stupid, stupid woman. I really don't believe that is the case.

    Yes, Obama needs to offer olive branches, starting immediately. It would be better if she initiated things rather than he (including being better for her own future), but somebody needs to be presidential (hint hint), and if she won't, he needs to. Bottom line, there won't be healing without her willing (or seemingly willing) participation.

    And I agree with those who encourage reaching out to her supporters. I was one, and could be again in another year. They have reasons, good reasons, for supporting her. Early on, I felt she would make a good president. I still think so. For now, though, Obama will make a better one. Especially with her supporting him in the Senate.

    I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell. -- Harry Truman

    by jazzyndn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:47:02 AM PDT

  •  Yes! (0+ / 0-)

    I celebrated with multiple barley pops.  It is over, however, I bet you she drags that dead carcass of a campaign down the road for a little while longer.

    March 16 2008: The day that signaled foreclosure on the traditional 4th estate

    by jessran72 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:47:57 AM PDT

  •  Act like a Bush (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishBiscuit

    get one finger saluted like like a Bush.

    Hillary Clinton: A monstrous liar whose hubris destroyed her reputation.

    by The Dead Man on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:50:46 AM PDT

  •  Did HRC concede while I was asleep? (5+ / 0-)

    Did her campaign stop dividing democrat?  Did she take back her endorsement of McCain?  Did she give up the idiotic gas holiday, me too proposal?  Did she denounce the Nuclear Option?  

    No?  

    Then why would I stop bringing up what she's still doing?

    Why not a cigarette tax holiday? HRC's health care "mandate" is taking an extended vacation. When was the last time she mentioned the Mandate? New Jersey?

    by Inland on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:53:09 AM PDT

    •  EXACTLY -- take a look at this (4+ / 0-)

      ""Clinton is preparing to push the contest beyond the voting phase of the process and into the realm of committee meetings and credentialing rules, where her campaign believes she may have a chance to overtake Obama before the party’s nominating convention in late August.""

      as will smith would say, "OHHH HELLLLLLL NAWWWWWW"

      she will do anything and everything to destroy obama.

  •  You are absolutely right! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, rcald, Scioto

    Without the Clinton supporters, we CANNOT win in November.  Hillary Clinton helped Obama more than we can analyze by staying in the race and enabling Obama to put himself forward visibly in a way that would not have been possible if she had dropped out a month ago. It is time to be the big tent party and embrace her and all that she brings to us.

  •  Remember the movie 'French Kiss'? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, nobody at all

    Remember the scene where the Kate (Meg Ryan) has gone to the Canadian consulate to replace her loss Canadian passport?

    Remember where the consulate official listens patiently and politely to her explanation of the arrest for smoking pot?

    Remember how he then leans forward and politely says "This is the part where I refuse your request"?

    Remember that part?

    Request denied. Hillary Clinton is dead to me for the evil she has said and done for the last six months. As far as I am concerned, she is almost as repugnant in her repudiation of Democratic principles as Lieberman.

    Request denied.

    "We must become the change we want to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HeartlandLiberal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 04:55:01 AM PDT

  •  No, it continues, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrostyKotex, agnostic, nobody at all

    Has the tone of her campaign improved? Has she apologized for the shit she has pulled these last few months, not to mention apologizing for the bankruptcy bill, the AUMF, Kyl-Lieberman.

    No, I'll stop when she concedes. Then, I'll celebrate her concession.

    "The mind of this country, taught to aim at low objects, eats upon itself." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    by FishBiscuit on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:04:15 AM PDT

  •  Do as you like (0+ / 0-)

    I'm going to keep calling Hillieberman out every moment of every day until she concedes.  No quarter until she drops out.

    "This is a very difficult vote... but I cast it with conviction." --Hillieberman, 10/10/2002, voting AYE for the Bush-McCain-Lieberman-Exxon war.

    by simca on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:07:02 AM PDT

  •  We'll see what *she* does. If she comports hersel (0+ / 0-)

    f appropriately, there will be no criticism of her. If she undermines Obama or does ANYTHING to help McCain, I will bring it on.

    The corporate media are destroying progressive Democrats. The Clintons are destroying the Democratic Party.

    by lecsmith on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:07:47 AM PDT

  •  It's Time To Reach Out To Clinton Supporters (4+ / 0-)

    Stop the abuse and nasty name calling, please!
    Obama supporters, be magnanimous in victory, show a little class and grace!
    I agree, it's a shame Kos has turned into an Obama blog, we really need Clinton, Edwards supporters here too. All Democrats need to unite behind Obama, it's the only way we'll beat McCain.

  •  Yesterday, when I linked to an (4+ / 0-)

    Indy news source which discussed operation chaos garbage, I read some of the comments that were posted.

    All I can say is after a few minutes of reading what people were saying, I felt as if I was punched in the stomach. Repubs were gleeful about the division in our party. They participated in the disgrace of switching to Dem in hopes that this nastiness continues on between the Clinton and Obama supporters. They are loving every second of it, so if you can't get past some of the tactics that Clinton used to keep herself in this race, maybe the mere fact that the repubs are making lots of popcorn in anticipation of another few weeks of this crap, will convince some Obama supporters to stop attacking her. She lost...let it go.

  •  I would love to get on board, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority

    ...the Clinton campaign and the Clintonites have made it clear they're not interested. I am in the group that is waiting for a clearer signal from them that they deserve this kind of treatment. We didn't go negative first.

    Propaganda is magic perpetrated by those who no longer believe in it on those who do.--W.H. Auden

    by AlexanderChee on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:13:17 AM PDT

  •  Just watch an hour of Fox News... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, Scioto

    If that's not enough to make you remember the REAL enemy, nothing is.

    Last night watching Fox's election coverage was nauseating, but it reached a low point when one of the panel said something to the effect of "McCain can't go to negative".

    Brit Hume turned to that person and says "What, we're going to run our campaign to please the liberals?".

    We need every vote to put Brit and his ilk DOWN.

  •  Um, no (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, agnostic

    I understand what you're trying to say here making a plea for party unity.  I would also like to note that there is a BIG difference between "bashing" and "fairly criticizing", the latter category is the one I am typically in with respect to Hillary Clinton.

    And I will not stop criticizing Hillary, fairly, accurately and civilly as I have, where she gives me something to criticize.  And this applies to all politicians irrespective of party.  I will pull no punches.

    Party unity is now up to Hillary, not Kossacks.  It is up to how Hillary handles her exist from the race - and if she handles her exit from the race.  If she does something stupid, like trying to continue to the convention, or trying to change the rules to seat Michigan and Florida, I will continue to give her some very well-deserved criticism about it, civilly, or course.

    If she does the right thing and bows out gracefully in the very near future and makes a strong case for her supporters to support Obama, and continues to make that case through and after the convention, she will earn my praise.

    It's just that simple, it is up to her.

  •  tis NOT that this place became an obama blog, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, nobody at all

    but rather, that hillary moved away from democratic values and ideas.

    that is a HUGE difference.

    I cannot agree with your diary, not in its entirety.  Two things must happen. Hillary needs a heart felt apology to be issued, a believable one, not her standard spin and smarm.

    Also, we need to put a huge wooden stake into the entire  DLC organization, then draw and quarter it, pick up the pieces, dip them in boiling oil and tar, then feather them, gather them again, send them through a tree cutter strong enough to deal with teak and ebony, gather every last bit and drop, add it to a local electric arc furnace, along with 300 tons of iron ore pellets, mix the melt  carefully,  pour it into one huge ingot, and after it cools, cover it in cement, rebar, and indestructible plastic sheathing, then drop the whole package into the deepest abyssal in the nether regions of the Pacific.

    MAYBE, just MAYBE, our party will be safe from that moment on. Until then, no deal.

    To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

    by agnostic on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:15:18 AM PDT

    •  with chains, lead weights, (0+ / 0-)

      and a tactical nuclear device that will be set to go off, if the slightest sign of life from DLC remnants is ever detected.

      To fully understand Christianity's duplicity, first recognize that the Vatican's St. Peter's Square is actually an oval.

      by agnostic on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:34:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, nobody at all

    Until that bitch drops out, the I'm not stopping.  If we stop bashing her she'll spin it and say that we are starting to rally behind her.  You have to kill a mosquito with an axe.

  •  As a Clinton supporter once stated here: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, ye ye ye

    "Politics ain't beanbag".

    I don't consider the race over yet, but that is exactly what I intend to throw up into the face of any Clinton supporter who comes back here after it is over, and tries to pull some sort of emotional blackmail.

    Look, I'm sorry, but I ain't got a lot of sympathy stored up right now.

    She's been an execrable candidate to date - though Clinton supporters are likely to say that Obama has been the execrable one, and Her and They are the victims who are owed their due apologies in order to win their "support" for Obama going forward.

    That kinda runs counter to the general theme that:

    As stated:

    "Politics ain't beanbag."

    Same old Hillary shit - Attack with impunity, then cry victim when the feces you flung get rubbed back in your face.

    TR me. I really don't give a fuck. Clinton supporters have been going on about "toughness" -- Someeone has to lose -- No Shit Sherlock, someone is losing -- just not who you thought it was gonna be in the end.

    Ain't my goddamn fault that you let yourselves get so wrapped up around a losing bet, and it ain't my goddamn job to console you in your moment of humiliation, loss and pain. You led your own danm self down this dead end road.

    And Hey, someone has got to lose.

    Because, Remember:

    "Politics ain't beanbag".

    Now, swallow your own goddamn bitter pill.

    And don't fucking whine about it.

    Because:

    "Politics ain't beanbag".

    (-6.88, -6.36) [New Amazing Signature!]

    by Tiny Wurlitzer on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:18:37 AM PDT

  •  I never bashed HRC ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, bubbalie 517

    ... I only addressed the facts about what she (or one of her surrogates) was saying and doing.

    However, I agree with your sentiments 100%.

    "War is not the answer, for only love can conquer hate." - Marvin Gaye (-5.25, -4.97)

    by JBL55 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:19:10 AM PDT

  •  eh depends on her (0+ / 0-)

    act more reasonable, respond reasonable.

    continue to act a fool like she has been, no promises from me.

  •  Bleh. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sumo

    "The Clinton Bashing Ends TONIGHT."

    Or what?

    I agree with the sentiment --- I mean, the Obama campaign seemed to take the high road whenever possible, and bashing the opposing candidate doesn't accomplish that much.

    But who the heck are you to tell people how to behave?

    I feel like hurling an insult at Clinton just out of spite to this post. :)

    I am talking to the server. You don't have to wait for me to finish.

    by RogueJim on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:20:18 AM PDT

  •  The mis-use of Bill Clinton (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, BDsTrinity

    I thought that they would start playing nice but he showed none of it.. The DNA of the Clinton campaign is to take retribution on people that disagree with them.

    When they started to lose the African American vote during S.C. primary they cut them off completely.

    It's funny to hear Bill Clinton say "they played the race card on me", then the campaign sends him to exclusively white communities. That tact was so obvious that no words had to be said. "She's the white candidate, He's the Black candidate".. It's a shame they chose to use him that way..

    After S.C. if Bill would have owned up to his activities, and apologized, and courted the African American vote, if they could have gotten 10-15% of it they would have won.

    If McCain wins, the Supreme Court will be changed for 20 years. Something to Ponder.

    by Blue Texas on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:21:05 AM PDT

  •  If she spends the next 2 weeks telling KY & WV (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    revbludge, snazzzybird

    that she's on their side and taht she feels their pain and that they can't trust Republicans, you won't see me bash her.  But if she spends that time telling them that McCain is better than Obama on national security, or that Rev. Wrigt matters I will bas, bash, bash.

    "Unrestricted immigration is a dangerous thing -- look at what happened to the Iroquois." Garrison Keillor

    by SpiderStumbled22 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:22:16 AM PDT

  •  I'm am awfully tired of vincent foster (5+ / 0-)

    bullshit coming up in thread after thread--that sort of filth has no place here. I'm amazed at how many people have drunk the 90's right-wing kool-aid and are suddenly advocates for everyone richard mellon scaife ever wrote a check to.

    I think there is a new disorder in the psychological pantheon:1990's-specific memory loss. But I haven't forgotten that the same person that told me hillary clinton was an "evil witch" back in the 90's was the same person who said "Timothy McVeigh had it right". Those people were one and the same back then.  It was hate, pure and simple.

    I have, like a lot of people here, lost respect for her as this campaign drags on. But losing respect, feeling disappointment, questioning her sanity even--these are a far cry from buying into very specific 1990's lines of attack--all thoroughly discredited--and rampaging from thread to thread promoting them.

    •  Erm (0+ / 0-)

      Scaife is HRC's new "Pal" in case you hadn't noticed, and I'd be interested in seeing some links to these Vince Foster accusations you cite as recent attacks upon Clinton by Kossacks.

      Personally I'd HR such garbage on sight, and I'm sure I'm far from the only one who would do so.

      (-6.88, -6.36) [New Amazing Signature!]

      by Tiny Wurlitzer on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:58:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  After JRE dropped out, I took my time (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority

    and finally settled on supporting BHO.

    I love being a part of the DKos community, and have thought several times lately that I'm lucky to have made the choice that I did, or I probably would have been a lot less involved here at DKos of late than I have been.

    It's got to be difficult around here for the HRC supporters - they are smart people, too. I agree that we need each other going into November, and that we need to be sensitive to our recent history in our postings in order to insure our unity at this critical time.

    My relationship with God is defined not by religion and ritual, but by attitude and action.

    by World Citizen on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:26:06 AM PDT

  •  My fellow Obama supporter (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority

    Supporters no problem but I want to see see the likes of Wolfson, Penn, Carghill, et al twist in the wind for at least a month. They will need time to reflect on their bad choices and worse ethics and morality.

    May 6th 2008: IN Insignificance Day

    by stevej on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:27:51 AM PDT

  •  I wonder... (0+ / 0-)

    How are things over at MyDD and Talkleft this morning?

    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Ghandi

    by Triscula on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:28:08 AM PDT

  •  When does the Clinton bashing of Richardson end? (0+ / 0-)

    Are you now urging Bill Richardson to be
    agreeable towards the Clintons? And Carville?
    And Penn?

  •  Hillary doesn't deserve a free pass, (5+ / 0-)

    but it serves no purpose to keep beating your drums against her.  She has lost and if we keep attacking or belittling her it just makes it more difficult to bring her supporters to Obama.  It does not matter if she stays in she has lost, so let her die a quiet death and get after John McCain.  He's given us so much to work with lately, but no one is paying attention.  

    Boycott all dishonorable journalistic standards (Corporate Media). It is Obama vs McCain 2008.

    by psdunc on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:29:58 AM PDT

  •  There weren't that many Clinton supporters... (3+ / 0-)

    ....here in the first place. The real divide was between Edwards supporters and Obama supporters and once Edwards dropped out, Obama got the lion's share of those Edwards supporters.

  •  This diary is sorely needed. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, rcald

    The division is way out of hand.

  •  I was going to write a similary diary today (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, rcald, deha, Scioto, fernan47

    but you did a great job.

    Reading some of these comments is a bit depressing, though.  Nobody's saying that we can't still disagree with Clinton or her supporters.  But good lord - do we not owe it to the party now to change our TONE just a bit?  Nothing's worse than a sore winner.  The media spin on the nomination changed overnight, and not in Clinton's favor.  It's not going to help Obama to continue with the name-calling.  It's not going to help the party to continue it, either.  Disagreements, yes.  Name-calling, no!

    I hear America singing, the varied carols I hear: Oui nous pouvons. Ja konnen wir. Si se puede. Yes we can!

    by writerswrite on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:33:06 AM PDT

  •  Clinton needs to show she will do (3+ / 0-)

    the right thing. No one should give her the benefit of the doubt at this point, after she endorsed McCain as C-in-C. There's no reason to trust her integrity or her judgment so after the conduct of her campaign and her Bush-enabling career in the Senate. I'll be happy not to  have to criticize her [them] once they cease the fear and smear campaign and concede. But not until then. The Clintons have forfeited my respect and trust, permanently.

    Restore constitutional government in America. Impeach Bush and Cheney.

    by revbludge on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:33:24 AM PDT

    •  Amen! She needs to exit gracefully. (0+ / 0-)

      Until then, crush her.

      •  "Crush her" until she "exits (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        fernan47

        gracefully?" Huh? I was talking about criticism.

        There is no need to "crush" anyone at this point. Clinton's campaign is crushed. It just seems to take her longer to smell the coffee than the average pol. She is more determined than most, for sure, but she also has a pretty defective sense of smell. Must have, or she wouldn't have kept paying out millions of dollars to the likes of Mark Penn.

        Restore constitutional government in America. Impeach Bush and Cheney.

        by revbludge on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:07:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hillary feeds on negative energy... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          revbludge

          If she does not exit gracefully she will continue to bash Obama with negatives.  She must be crushed by Super D's to force her out if she won't go on her own.

          •  Yes, she might, but it would buy her (0+ / 0-)

            nothing, and he's shown he can withstand it very well. Clinton has reached the pivot point, at which it has been demonstrated that negative campaigning will not buy her the nomination.

            Now I think she is staying in to rack up enough mojo to force herself onto the ticket as the VP nom. Even Clinton must realize that bashing Obama now will be counterproductive in getting her the VP slot. So she will have to tone it down, altho' probably she is still hoping her or the GOP's oppo research will turn up some new dirt or that he will make a fatal blunder so she can roar into the convention and demand the nomination on the basis that Obama has been discredited. Not going to happen, but one must assume she still hopes for that.

            Restore constitutional government in America. Impeach Bush and Cheney.

            by revbludge on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:13 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  and you, mine (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      brn2bwild, bigred39, fernan47

      Senator Clinton did not endorse Senator McCain, and your claim that she did is exactly the kind of comment that drives we Clinton supporters off the reservation.  The Clinton supporters have, by and large, been gracious - didn't see a lot of in your face basing after either NH or Nevada, didn't hear screams of "He is LIAR" with his ads misrepresenting her position on health care.  If Obama supporters like yourself recognized that "unity" should include the millions of people who support Hillary Clinton, things would be better in November. While he is ahead in votes and delegates, it is not as if he has had a landslide victory nationally. In order to win in November, you need the enthusiastic support of the people who have voted for Hillary. If you don't get that, well, I hope you don't advise anyone on political strategy, because you will advise them right into defeat.  

      •  LOL (4+ / 0-)

        " The Clinton supporters have, by and large, been gracious "

        On what planet have you been living?

        I've been called a delusional cultist and an "Obamabot" more times than I can recall, my intelligence, judgment and patriotism have been tarred, and my candidate has been subjected to a ruthless, vengeful, nasty stream of overtly racist and an patriotism-bashing character assassination by you "gracious" HRC supporters for months.

        And for a Clinton supporter to warn Obama supporters that we might be "advising our candidate into defeat" is rich.   Pot.  Kettle.  Black.

        When she concedes and ratchets back the tone, and when her supporters get the message that it's over, and start showing loyalty to the democratic nominee, then I'll be "gracious" back.   Until then, it's status quo, auntie.  

      •  She did endorse his fitness to be (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        madcow krane, sumo

        Commander in Chief. She said he was qualified, and Obama was not. This IS an endorsement, and it is no use your trying to downplay what a betrayal of the entire Democratic Party and its values her public accolade for this corrupt old Bush surrogate was.

        I don't work for the Obama campaign. Sorry I've forfeited your respect; I must say I think I have given you far less provocation than the Clintons have given me since, say, 2002.

        Clinton's supporters will have to decide for themselves whether they want to be Democrats or try to kamikaze their country by giving Bush a third term. I'd have held my nose and voted for ANY Dem nominee against the GOP pick; if these people aren't capable of exerting enough judgment and will to do the same, they will demonstrate that they are simply not people that can be counted on, like the "Reagan Democrats" or the Dixiecrats who walked out in 1948.

        That would be too bad, but a strong Democratic candidate who pulls in Independents and disaffected moderate Republicans, fires up new voters, turns states like Colorado and Missouri blue, and out-raises Clinton and McCain put together (and then some) might have a chance without Hillary's implacables.

        Restore constitutional government in America. Impeach Bush and Cheney.

        by revbludge on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:00:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Difference (0+ / 0-)

          There is a big difference between enthusiastic support and voting for someone. I have always said I will vote for out nominee, but I don't have a lot of excitement about canvassing for Obama with someone who tells me how much they hate Hillary. That is what I am talking about - enthusiastic support.  

  •  Let's just shift our focus to the real issue (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, rcald

    M C C A I N....

    Barack Obama Can...John McCain't...Forget about Hillary.

    by Kyman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:33:39 AM PDT

  •  It would help if she would drop out. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, rcald

    A rational politician does NOT continue to campaign facing the money and delegate issues she has.

    Seriously, I can't recall another candidate in my lifetime continuing to run in the face of such bleak math...

  •  It'll be hard (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, rcald, Scioto, IndieinVa

    to give up the "not mattering" jokes. ;)

    Seriously, though, good points. I don't plan to stop critiquing Clinton on policy or on campaign tactics if I think it's necessary (I think all of us have the right, and maybe the responsibility, to do that to all pols) but I'll try to keep it as cool-headed as I can.

    And I will try to breathe and not engage the trolls. Because I think most of the worst flamers we've seen aren't even HRC supporters. They're freepers trying to mess with us and having a good laugh. Neither candidate is as bad as the worst of his/her trolls.

    I may write a diary later about the Hillary supporter who lives in my house. :)

    Lousy Bowlers for Obama

    by paintitblue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:38:26 AM PDT

  •  We are the dictators of our own actions. (0+ / 0-)

    I hate Hillary and I'm glad it seems as though her campaign is finally in the last throes.

    I understand that she pisses people off.  I understand that her staff is scum.  I understand all that she represents and is why I chose to support Obama in the first place.  

    But now that she matters less and less, there is no need for her to continue to control the actions of the Obama campaign or his supporters.  

    We came into this with an idea to change politics, so let's start changing politics!  Let's be the humble victors and embrace all HRC supporters as they will need our encouragement and kindness to heal this party!

    •  No, thanks (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bigred39

      Change politics? You started off by saying you hate someone. Pretty old politics to me. Have you seen a lot of comments on Democratic leaning websites from people saying they "hate" Obama? No. this vitriol from some of the Obama people is what divides the party.

      •  what? (0+ / 0-)

        See what you're doing there?  not reading the whole post and trying to throw gasoline on it after the first line?  That is old politics. Clinton supporter, I'm presuming?

        First, to hate is normal.  I didn't say i wouldn't vote for her if she were the nom, did I?  I hated with every ounce of my being the lies and BS that came from the Clinton Campaign over the past 5 months.  I hate that crap. I hate all those that push it.  I hate it so much, and btw so did a huge amount of others, that we decided to find a better candidate and we did in Obama.  The first line was called being honest, empathetic, and a little blunt.

        Secondly, if you took any time to read beyond the first line, you might realize that i want to embrace and heal this party regardless of my personal feelings.

        Lastly, I have been to MANY MANY sites where Clinton supporters have lashed out in hate at Obama and yes, i've even see a time or two where the word "hate" was technically used.  so you can drop the "holier that thou" crap.

        I for one am passionate and dedicated. So, if using words that reflect truthfully the emotions i feel when HRC and her crew embark on destroying this party is a little to much for you, then go buy a band-aid and gather some pillows to soften the blow of the reality that, yes, people are hurt and upset at Clinton and her campaign but there is a much larger task at hand to bring this party together to defeat McCain.

  •  Barack (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, rcald

    set the right tone in his speech last night. Clinton may continue on, she may try to do crazy things on the rules committee, but its over for her and her supporters (and she does have enthusiastic supporters, though I don't quite understand it) are going to be crushed. We need to bring the party together. We need Clinton's votes.

    I know its crazy to for any Democrat to vote for McCain-ideologically it makes no sense whatsoever. But people are not all ideologues. Let the healing begin

  •  here is why Hillary bashing should never end... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jack Dublin

    On the morning after a big win in NC and a closer-than-expected finish in IN, millions of Americans are still convinced Hillary will win the nomination. One of the secerataries in my office (an Obama supporter) is convinced she will steal this thing. She ain't the only one.

    •  So, you shouldn't stop bashing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chiniqua

      Hillary in order to win those supporters over to your side as it becomes clearer and clearer that she cannot win?  Because that's exactly what we need to do if we want a Dem to win the general.

      Dialogue is not possible, however, in the absence of a profound love for the world and for people -- Paulo Freire

      by rcald on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:38:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, rcald, Tchrldy, fernan47

    I was an Edwards supporter.  When he dropped out I was disappointed and annoyed at the Clinton and Obama supporters.  But I am a Democrat.  I pouted for a few days and then looked harder at Clinton and Obama and chose Obama to support.  That is what the Clinton supporters need to do now.  Take a second look at Obama and come to the decision that he is a good man and will be a good candidate.

    * 4071 * http://icasualties.org/oif/

    by BDA in VA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:45:47 AM PDT

    •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

      I do not expect HRC supporters to embrace Obama today or tomorrow.  Let them take some time to get over their disappointment and then review the qualities Obama brings to the nation. If they truly care about rescuing the country from the mess we are in, they will see that he is the only choice for President.  I hope that HRC will be gracious in leading her supporters to reconcile.  I hope that by the end of May we will see reasonable people come together to support Obama's vision for change.  A lot depends on her statesmanship.  I hope that she will prove that she can lead people toward a positive vision that unifies rather than divides the party.  

  •  Not until she concedes (0+ / 0-)

    and maybe not until she apologizes for her Iraq war vote.

  •  McSame (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, brn2bwild, rcald, Scioto

    We have one target, one enemy, one object of scorn.
    McSame.
    This has been a very long, sometimes very nasty and brutal fight, and HRC did indeed throw the kitchen sink at Obama and he still won. There is little left the Republicans can do but try the same tired old tricks that failed for HRC.
    The time has come to focus our energies and verbage at the real target, the real enemy of the American people and that is John McCain and the corrupt fascist party he represents.
    It's time to move on and there is much work to do.

  •  Will you still feel this way if she goes nuclear? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc

    It's up to her, really.  I actually want her to stay in the race through the next few primaries, as an Obama losing streak against someone who isn't in the race helps no one.  He'll win Oregon, she can bow out gracefully, and start working to elect a Democrat for President as hard as she worked to get herself nominated.

    Or she can continue to toss the Michigan/Florida grenades around, talk about poaching pledged delegates, add in Wrightayersfarrakhan to every sentence, compliment McCain on his resume of experience, and drag the party kicking and screaming at each other to the convention.

    And ya know what?  None of that will be due to anything I do, or say.

    It's up to Hillary.

    •  If she becomes hurtful (0+ / 0-)

      to the party's chances in November, then we can forcefully respond.

      Otherwise I agree. Time to run against McVain.

    •  It's not about her (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chiniqua, fernan47

      It's about her supporters.  And now it's about November.

      Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

      by NCJan on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:54:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Why would she go nuclear? (0+ / 0-)

      Don't you think the Clintons still want a place in Democratic politics after this election?  Seriously, think about it.

      Dialogue is not possible, however, in the absence of a profound love for the world and for people -- Paulo Freire

      by rcald on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:36:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, their Dem future needs an Obama loss. (0+ / 0-)

        She would choose to go nuclear because she might value her chances at running again in 2012 more than she values the Democratic Party's chances in 2008.

        Seriously, think about it.

        •  I don't think it would even benefit her (0+ / 0-)

          If she wants 2012, how will she achieve it if she's alienated the Democratic establishment by flaming out at the end of this campaign?  If she goes destructive, I don't believe the party will support her, and her political career will effectively be over.  (Let's not forget that she does have a senatorial position).

          Hillary Clinton is cynical and opportunistic, and I don't think she'll jeopardize her political future on destroying Obama's campaign just so she can have a shot at McCain in 2012; it doesn't realistically serve her self-interest because she would become a party pariah.

          Dialogue is not possible, however, in the absence of a profound love for the world and for people -- Paulo Freire

          by rcald on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:51:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  We know what Obama really thinks (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bigred39

    Obama's mouth piece Donna B on CNN gave away the game plan. Here it is:

    Paul, you’re looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics.

    shows a deep rooted hatred for voters that are older, rural, blue collar and Hispanic.

    Obviously his bitter comments came from his heart and he thinks he does not need us.

    Don't suppress the vote! seat the FL & MI delegates

    by indydem99 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:49:30 AM PDT

    •  There is no "deep hatred" (0+ / 0-)

      C'mon now.

      Exit polls from yesterday show that lower income people voted for Obama in large numbers.

      The hispanic vote will be problematic if McCain snows them into thinking that REPS want them here!

      •  He only got 37% of white vote Hillary got 61% (1+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        bigred39
        Hidden by:
        baltogeek

        How the heck is he going to win in the GE?? he only won because 93% of African Americans voted for him! and thy were 35% of electorate! Don't deceive yourself.

        Don't suppress the vote! seat the FL & MI delegates

        by indydem99 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:59:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  He will struggle to get white votes (0+ / 0-)

          in some places, that is true.  However, you are definitely (deliberately?) misreading the Brazile quote.  "A deep rooted hatred" . . . Where are you even getting that?  

          Dialogue is not possible, however, in the absence of a profound love for the world and for people -- Paulo Freire

          by rcald on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:35:13 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Here is my quote: (0+ / 0-)

            Paul, you’re looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics.

            if you read it carefully you woud have noticed "A deep rooted hatred" is my inference.Ok if it satisfies you he thinks he does not need older, rural, blue-collar and Hispanic voters because he got African americans, Youth vote. We do not need him if he does not need us.

            Don't suppress the vote! seat the FL & MI delegates

            by indydem99 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:15:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Let me ask again (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Inland, fernan47

              WHY are you inferring hatred from Brazile statement?  She's not saying or in any way implying that the Obama campaign doesn't need white blue-collar and Hispanic voters.  She is making the argument that Obama reaches beyond those traditionally strong Dem voters and is getting support from non-traditional places as well.  (Note her use of the word "just").  

              The fact that you can then go on to infer hatred from that is, frankly, nonsensical.

              She's not saying what you claim she is, at all.  

              Dialogue is not possible, however, in the absence of a profound love for the world and for people -- Paulo Freire

              by rcald on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:21:45 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  How do we know (0+ / 0-)

          what the split would be between McCain and Obama? We don't know that.

        •  How does that mean Obama hates? (0+ / 0-)

          Not seeing the connection.

          How the heck is he going to win in the GE?? he only won because 93% of African Americans voted for him!

          Well, I think we assume that democratic primary voters will vote for the nominee.  But maybe you're telling us something we don't know.

          Why not a cigarette tax holiday? HRC's health care "mandate" is taking an extended vacation. When was the last time she mentioned the Mandate? New Jersey?

          by Inland on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:51:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  It is this twisted logic... (0+ / 0-)

      that got us to where we are now....using someone else's words to condemn Barack.

    •  Wow, such seething HATRED..... (0+ / 0-)

      we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics.

      The statement that we don't have to JUST RELY on blue collar voters is so hateful.  She should have said that we ONLY rely on blue collar voters.  And hispanic, who she also hates.  And rural, who she didn't mention at all.

      After all, only some voters count.

      Why not a cigarette tax holiday? HRC's health care "mandate" is taking an extended vacation. When was the last time she mentioned the Mandate? New Jersey?

      by Inland on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:49:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ok Hillary and supporters (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority

    While I have had nothing good to say about this election season and the handeling of the campaigning I will stop bieng as nasty as I was in my comments. I still have some sore spots but will endevor to rise above myself to be more like Obamas vision... But please you all rise up and shake my hand too...

  •  A house divided (5+ / 0-)

    Our house is literally divided--my husband and I for Obama, our 21 year old son (just home for college) for Hillary.  We all voted in NC yesterday.  We all watched the results last night together.

    We were kind to each other, although I must admit my husband and I did some gloating.

    But because we respected my son, made sure he voted, let him put the Hillary sign in his bedroom window without too much groaning, last night he said he not only knew that Hillary lost but was perfectly willing to vote for Obama in November.

    Let's remember here that Cumbaya was a song sung by civil rights workers--black and white--working together.  It became a joke only because right wing Republicans like Rush made it one.

    There's nothing wrong with playing cumbaya.

    Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

    by NCJan on Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:53:42 AM PDT

  •  Hear, hear! I'm with you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority

    Her SUPPORTERS - our fellow Democrats - are whom we embrace...if she wants our hug, that's cool, too.

  •  Good thoughts, but wasted on deaf ears (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rcald, deha, fernan47

    It's nice to see somebody take a stab at civility on this site, but the comments underline the futility of your effort. I've watched with dismay as this site devolved from one of my favorite daily reads to a place I absolutely couldn't stand to visit. As an Edwards supporter, I could take a detached view of the political shenanigans by both side in this campaign, and both were as guilty as the other of playing hardball politics.

    To read the laughable comments here and on MyDD from the rabid supporters of both sides, it's clear that the juvenile dialect is simply symptomatic of the lack of critical thinking skills revealed by the true believers of each candidate. Obama and Clinton supporters both need to heed the advice Jesus gave about seeing the speck in another person's eye while ignoring the log in your own.

  •  I'm sure this was said a dozen times before... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc

    In this thread even, but;

    I'll sing kumbaya when she drops out.  Not before.  I've tried to be at least civil this whole time, but I'm not suddenly going to sing the praises of the candidate I don't support because it looks like her supporters have finally realized they lost.

    McCain '08: Same shit, different name.

    by Capt America on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:05:53 AM PDT

  •  Give peace a chance (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, snazzzybird, rcald, Tchrldy, Renie

    And, McCain is a big target.

    We cannot let him win.

    How many years will we run our cars on the blood of our youth?

    by redtex on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:06:22 AM PDT

  •  Not ending . . see other diaries (6+ / 0-)

    I'm so disgusted by some hillary bashing diaries i could just scream.  I supported Hillary for many personal reasons, but switched to Obama months ago because he was running the better campaign and would run in all 50 states.   I still like Hillary, but it is hard to support Obama with the nasty, hateful, false comments made about Hillary on this site.  

    The fact is Hillary will continue campaigning for a while, but tone down the rhetoric.  Raise some money to pay down past debts.  She will campaign and work hard for Obama's election.  She will graciously work for party unity and continue to work for dem candidate accross the country.  She has for the past 20 years, she will not stop now.  The clintons have won elections and lost them.  They will be help bring the party together.

    "The woman's life is misery; for God's sake, people, at least give her a few good songs". NYT review of The Color Purple

    by arogue7 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:10:06 AM PDT

  •  I'm with you (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snazzzybird, Tchrldy

    I'm done with the bashing....time to move on to the real target in McCain.

    -8.38, -7.38 "Only the day after tomorrow belongs to me. Some are born posthumously." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    by mcthatch on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:10:13 AM PDT

  •  Keep Dreaming! (0+ / 0-)

    It will take a stake through the heart to bring down the HILLARYBEAST!
    Her flying monkeys are out on the Corp. Media screaming we are fighting on.
    She must be put down hard for the good of the party, Supers.......... END THIS OR THE FAULT WILL BE YOURS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  •  I'll stop when Obama gets the nod... (4+ / 0-)

    ...and not one second before.

  •  This Diary is so Premature.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc, IndieinVa

    She has conceded nothing, and she has a lot to answer for too.

    "Never was so little asked of so many by so few"--Stephen Colbert

    by EMorgan on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:13:20 AM PDT

  •  Clinton supporters are needed for the General (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, bigred39, rcald, Curufinwe

    Being gracious winners is important - not just because magnanimity is noble, but because it is a political necessity.

    Obama has won - but let us be perfectly clear. His victory is NOT a blowout. Large contingents of people never broke for Obama, not even at the end.

    Heartland Democrats and older women, who have long been some of the most important foot soldiers in the DP, began with Hillary and stayed with her. For the latter, the lost prospect of seeing a woman President in their lifetimes will bring VERY REAL grief. That grief has to be acknowledged as real, and spoken to.

    The former is more complicated - the salt of the Earth vote stayed with Hillary throughout the campaign, because she was able to get into specifics about their problems, and speak to it in ways that did not sound patronizing. Obama MUST learn how to court this vote - Hillary knew how to do it, and to a lesser extent McCain knows how do it, even though their issues are Democratic ones.

    Obama has to learn how to do this, and if he does not alienate Clinton supporters, can probably count on her and her team to help.

    •  It is not just Obama who needs to be gracious (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Inland

      leaders lead.  Obama is taking the high road as he showed in his speech last night.  There were indications in her speech that she is willing to take the high road as well.  Hillary needs to lead her supporters to reconciliation.  Obama and his supporters can hold out their hands but it will only be effective if Hillary leads her supporters to take those hands.  I am hoping that she will.  

  •  she can engage in coprophagy and expire (0+ / 0-)

    vile despicable lizard brain closet-Republican slime-ball lying cheating race-baiting sack of miserable dung!

    Don't get me started.

    Nice???????? no, she and most of her supporters can go to hell.

    krnewman.blogspot.com

    by krnewman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:17:18 AM PDT

    •  Then prepare for a twelth year of Republican rule (5+ / 0-)

      ....because if you tell nearly half a party to go to hell, that is objectively the inevitable result.

      •  properly, the reptilian brain (0+ / 0-)

        focus on fight-or flight, but also includes rage and xenophobia as natural reactions to perceived threat. Properly speaking it's the brainstem, one third of the triumvirate brain we have, along with the neo-cortex and the limbic system. It's the old, primitive part.

        Clinton's campaign has operated on the lizard brain, and appeals to lizard brain voters, in stark contrast to the highly evolved and sophisticated and cultured higher instincts (specifically love and rational self-interest) shown by Obama's campaign. In part it's why she was doomed to fail. She had one plan, he had 50.

        krnewman.blogspot.com

        by krnewman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:25:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I don't know you (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      brn2bwild

      and you don't know me.  You might be really cool.  I don't know.  
      But, and I don't say this lightly, fuck you.  
      Not just fuck you because I support Sen. Clinton (for a variety of reasons, from slightly-more-progressive on some issues to belief that if this comes down to a battle for the independent vote McCain may have it sewn up, any of which you can disagree with or dislike if you so choose).  But when you tell me, and the millions upon millions of democrats who voted for her, to go to hell because what?  You don't like her personally?  Or because you can't honestly tell the difference between her and a republican?  You're just rude and stupid.  
      Stupid because it's attitudes like yours that will cost us November.  
      Go ahead and blame Hillary for dividing the party.  I'd say we are the party and you're doing a mighty fine job of dividing it yourself right here.

      •  thanks (0+ / 0-)

        > But when you tell me, and the millions upon millions of democrats who voted for her, to go to hell because what?  You don't like her personally?

        No, it would mostly be for the race-baiting and pandering to the imputed racism of working class and rural whites. And the campaigning on behalf of McCain and doing the Republican's attack dogging for them. I thought the cynical appeal to what she calculated to be racist sentiment among Latinos was particularly vile. The lying, the lying about the lying.... Buy, hard to list them all I could go on all day.

        But maybe most of all it was when she lied repeatedly about Tuzla and Sinbad said "wait a second, I was there, that's not how it happened" and told the truth about it. And she dissed him. She dissed a brother who was telling the truth when she was lying. Why? Because she thought she would get away with it. She thought "they will take my word against his because I am a rich old white lady and he's just a....comedian." She's a vile evil twisted little turd, and so are many of her supporters. And yes, hell would be the destination of choice.

        I suggest you join the Republican Party. If you're a Clinton supporter you're already at least half-way there.

        krnewman.blogspot.com

        by krnewman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:04:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh, before I forget (0+ / 0-)

          She set back the cause of universal health care in this country by at least 16 years back in the nineties by deliberately botching the job that she got not due to qualifications but only because of who she at least theoretically slept with, thus setting back both the causes of socialized medicine AND feminism. And then has the gall to campaign based on her experience (i.e. a colossal failure!) and her "feminist" credentials, when she only ever got anything through nepotism and carpet-bagging, and did poorly.

          Oh, and she was on the board at Wal-mart, worker-hating Wal-Mart, and hired that worker-hating pig Mark Penn.

          Sheesh, I could just go on and on and on and on. She's a very very very bad person, and not someone I want any party I'm a member of to have anything to do with.

          krnewman.blogspot.com

          by krnewman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:17:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            brn2bwild

            you want to jettison 14million democratic voters, tell them to go to hell, because you don't like the fact that Hillary Clinton said something untrue about a trip to Bosnia?  Seriously?
            Why don't you join the McCain fan Club, because if that's a good enough reason for you to tell Clinton supporters (not the candidate herself) to go to hell, well I'd say you're already a member.
            I don't want to get dragged down in a flame war with you, because it ain't worth it.  But if you think that the failure of the health care plan was Hillary's fault, and hers alone, and had nothing to do with THE REPUBLICANS, then maybe you're lying yourself?
            And I don't know what you know about feminism (guess: not a hell of a lot) but to attack a woman's achievements as "not her own" because of who she is married to is profoundly anti-feminist.

            •  yes, I want to jettison them (0+ / 0-)

              people who would support a woman who would lie and then diss the brother who told the truth, who would turn a blind eye to her abuse of racism in America, yes, people like that I do not wish to be in the same party with.

              What achievement????? Failure at bringing in health care when that was her job? That was an achievement? Being appointed to a job she was unqualified for, that she failed at, because of her husband, that was an achievement? Do you think when she was appointed to the board of directors at Wal-Mart it was for anything she had done and not because she was married to the governor of AK? Really? I refuse to believe you are that naive or stupid. There must just be some misunderstanding on your part.

              And yes, I do blame her for the failure of the health care initiative under Bill Clinton, it was her job, she failed, just as I am absolutely certain that had she become president she would again have failed at implementing universal health care, since her current plan wouldn't have a chance in hell of ever happening.

              krnewman.blogspot.com

              by krnewman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:56:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  I couldn't agree more; I only hope people will... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rcald, smash artist

    ... follow your advice  .... our "better angels" that I like to refer to.

    Good Diary smash artist.  

  •  Which editor labeled this a "rant"? (0+ / 0-)

    Because that's pretty ridiculous.  

    I'm guessing DHinMI, given his seething hatred of Clinton, but there could be others.  

    Anyway, I agree with the sentiments of this diary.  

    Frankly, she's pushed some stupid themes, and she's pushed some populist themes, and all in all, this prolonged process has, up to this point, been very good for the democrats.  

    The energy, the names, the contact lists, the new voters - more good than bad has resulted from this Battle Royale.  

    I totally agree with Rahm Emmanual.  It's fine to keep going until the primaries end.  When the primaries end, the primary has to end, and Clinton, if she hasn't already, will need to bow out gracefully.  

    Emmanual's other winning quote:  How the loser loses will determine if the winner wins.  

    He's a smart dude, and gets beat on too much around these parts.

  •  Nope. Clinton pandered, lied hurt ALL Democrats (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc, IndieinVa

    Sorry but Clinton ran a campaign that was bad for ALL Democrats.

    Her campaign was based on attacking Obama vs. why Clinton was a good candidate.

    She took up Republican anti-Obama themes such as McCain being better qualified than Obama, and Obama being a) not black enough then b)just a black candidate, she jumped on the Wright jeremiad, they Ayers attack.

    She lied ("sniper fire"), NAFTA, "I have more votes", she failed to keep agreement on MI and FL, sowing division in those states in November.

    She pandered on gas tax holiday, bringing us full circle where she supported Republican proposal which was exactly what was wrong with US energy policy and why we are in Iraq fighting for oil supplies.

    As far as her staying in the race, that's fine because it gives it a horse race atmosphere that brings out the voters and allows Obama to campaign across US, building organization, introducing himself to voters and helping Democrats even in red states build for a win in November. And that is what Clinton didn't do, ruining her reputation, Bill's reputation and putting her desire for power over US national interest in Democrats winning in November.

  •  I only became a Clinton basher (4+ / 0-)

    when HRC became an Obama basher.
    I can certainly agree to a truce. Not unilateral disarmament, but a truce. I don't care how long she decides to stay in the race, I don't care what she needs in order to save face, but if she goes after Obama with stupid stuff again she has to expect massive retaliation.

    When civilizations clash, barbarism wins.

    by Allogenes on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:26:05 AM PDT

  •  HELL NO - when she gets out (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jack Dublin

    ok, but not a minute before.

  •  Unfortunately, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, pmcmscot, deha

    the front pagers did not step in when the site starting jumping the shark, and I am not sure if the kind of community now exists that will be able to respond appropriately to this kind of request.  Non-critical thinking and downright group-think has been dominating this previously reality-based site for months.  It's a damn shame, but I'm not at all surprised to be seeing some of the hostile responses you are getting here.  

    Hopefully, the people who are greatly respected around here and have huge pull (the FPers, Kos, some of the frequently recced diarists) will start calling for and maintaining similar standards.  There used to be a time on this site when viciously attacking another Democrat  earned a person the label of "Purity Troll."  But, now, over-the-top demonization of Clinton is de rigueur.  (Don't get me wrong, she deserves some of the criticism -- and so does Obama).  Before the primaries started, I was so excited about visiting this site to witness intelligent and stimulating (and heated) debate and discussion about the primary contests.  Boy, has that been a disappointment.  And I'm an Obama supporter; I can't imagine how Clinton supporters or undecideds feel.

    Dialogue is not possible, however, in the absence of a profound love for the world and for people -- Paulo Freire

    by rcald on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:28:18 AM PDT

  •  Tipped, Rec'd (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Decih, smash artist, NickB

    Time to move forward.

    Perspective: available by the pint at your nearest pub.

    by IDrankWhat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:28:31 AM PDT

  •  I think it would be great... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild

    if Obama could find a way to use his vast resources, volunteers, ground game, and phonebanking to do some outreaching to Clinton voters in the next month or so to start repairing the wounds. I know we have to gear up for a general election, but wouldn't it be great for a candidate to push a unification message in the party not only by speeches, but by actually having his supporters do the work in the same ways they turned out the vote.  As he said last night in his victory speech, this election is about us and not the candidates. As a result, we should do the majority of the work to bridge the divide.

    "Somewhere in Texas a village is missing its idiot."

    by Gramarye on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:30:04 AM PDT

  •  I could care less who started the negativity (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    C Mac, FishBiscuit

    But until Clinton concedes you do not give up.  It would be stupid to be on the verge of Barack winning and then let Clinton back in again by letting up on her.

    •  Hmm... (0+ / 0-)

      So, just to clarify... Do you believe that Obama supporters making every effort to be less negative, even that is simply holding our tongues when we percieve that Clinton supporters are acting like sore losers, will actually help Clinton?

      Take back mass media!
      I'm a Michiganian, not a Michigander.

      by Decih on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:14:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Highlighting what Clinton is doing (0+ / 0-)

        Even if it is negative should not stop until the contest is over.  Clinton has not conceded so her bad deeds should still be highlighted.  It is the truth, but many would say it is just negative.

  •  I'm done (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Decih, NickB

    It was a good race and it is time to let her go out on her own terms.  

  •  It's either Obama or McBush. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishBiscuit

    If Clinton supporters want to vote for McBush, have at it.  I only hope they don't have children old enough to go to Iraq.

  •  If She Drops Out Then I Agree %100. Till Then She (0+ / 0-)

    Will always take incoming or sniper fire.

    Obama '08
    Dont Be Fooled. CHANGE Is Real And It Starts In YOU?

    by DFutureIsNow on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:44:02 AM PDT

  •  what has happened to clintonIs44? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishBiscuit

    I enjoyed looking at the meltdown last night and now i cant find it.

  •  Too little, too late (4+ / 0-)

    Sorry, but you threw out the baby with the bath water months ago.

    First, it was the Edwards supporters who you all said needed to face reality and jump aboard the Obama Express. A ridiculous number of diaries every day denounced Edwards' supporters for, well, supporting Edwards beyond the point  the Kos power pundits believed he was a viable candidate. I can't even count how many times we were said to be in denial.

    The community bashed Hillary from the day she announced, but it really ratcheted up after Edwards suspended his campaign -- peaking before the SC primary. I was on the fence after Edwards left, but decided on Hillary and voted for her in the VA primary, largely because her health care plan includes mandates and Obama's doesn't. In fact, I recall a particularly nasty thread when Obam's campaign dropped the "Harry and Louise" anti-Hillary postcard in SC. I thought then, and still believe, that was a low point in his campaign and on Daily Kos.

    I'm a loyal Dem, and I'll vote for Obama in November. But the well here has been poisoned to such an extent by the Obama supporters that I don't see any way this site can credibly reach out to Clinton supporters or attempt to play a "statesman-like" role (or at least the blog equivalent) in uniting the party. Showing the love now for Hillary and her supporters smacks of cold-hearted political opportunism, cynicism and, dare I say it, pandering.

    From here forward, I'm an Edwards Democrat.

    by pmcmscot on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:49:38 AM PDT

  •  Bashing continues... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pundit, C Mac, davidkc, Lopez99, JCarter

    ...as long as Clinton is still trying to get Michigan and Florida to count.  

    But Obama should ignore her and act like the nominee.  

  •  how much did Hillary pay you to put this post? (0+ / 0-)

    you know Hillary and her rabid supporters have destroyed my faith in the Dem party? she and her rabid supporters very happily played the race card and people I thought to be good and decent Democrats have shown their true colors in this primary

    This is not about dissing Hillary. Where Hillary was supposed to show leadership, she didnt and far worse, she showed her true colors

    "eeyeah Hi..eeyeah..Id like you to go ahead and support Obama" Bill Lumbergh-Office Space

    by girlyman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:51:42 AM PDT

    •  100,000 Turkish Lira (6+ / 0-)

      You got me.  I am secretly a very high paid Clinton campaign operative.  All the comments I made in support of Obama and the all the attacks I made against Clinton were just some secret build up so I could post this one diary.

      How'd you figure me out?

      I am a liberal and I'm damn proud of it

      by smash artist on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Her "rapid" supporters? Don't you need our votes? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chiniqua, smash artist

      I have long stopped supporting Hillary, but it still offends to see this kind of name-calling that Obama has risen above.

      Not all of Hillary's supporters played the race card, and you know it.

      You're implying that anyone who voted for Clinton is not a "good and decent Democrat".

      Comments like this will make it more difficult for Obama to bring those Hillary supporters back into the fold when this is over, and the time is NOW for it to be over.

      Impeachment is a duty, not an option that can be taken off the table.

      by bushondrugs on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:13:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oooh I SERIOUSLY disagree (0+ / 0-)

        I never said ALL Hillary shills are racists, but I never even saw one major Hillary supporter go on the record to say that they found her new found desire to play the race card abhorring, and if anything they took her call and wrote paeans to the good old hardworking beer drinking blue collar Democrats about their wisdom in supporting Hillary and questioned Obama's ability to get the white vote.

        And after chasing African Americans for a decade and telling them that they felt their pain and attending their churches, it was quite interesting for HRC and her husband to throw Wright under the bus right away.

        "eeyeah Hi..eeyeah..Id like you to go ahead and support Obama" Bill Lumbergh-Office Space

        by girlyman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:42:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Great diary, thank you (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, deha, smash artist

    I'll admit I have been guilty of Clinton bashing also. Last night, I listened to her speech and tried as hard as I could to see her in the inspirational light her supporters do. I couldn't, but I think it benefited me (and would benefit us all) to try.
    The best I got was a grudging feeling that - yeah - she would probably make a decent president, and I do believe she cares deeply for this country and its citizens.
    Toward the end of the speech (not counting the standard bit about counting Michigan and Florida, the rules be damned) my feelings toward her had warmed.
    We've all had our differences, but we can get over them.
    Yes, we can.

    When will children learn to let their wildernesses burn?

    by fredo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:53:44 AM PDT

  •  Hillary needs to show some contrition (5+ / 0-)

    Not once did Barack hit this harpy, but she has pissed me off royally.  She needs to come out and say some things.  One, sorry for throwing you under the bus.  Sorry for being a lying so and so. etc.

    •  This post is a perfect example (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Piotr, brn2bwild

      of what this site has become. Leads me to conclude that Obama supporters teeter dangerously close to idolatry. Are they supporters of the Democratic Party, or just Barack Obama?

      From here forward, I'm an Edwards Democrat.

      by pmcmscot on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A Great Question!I (0+ / 0-)

        I am an Obama supporter AND a member of the Democratic Party.  However, I fear that many Obama supporters are only for Obama and don't get the bigger picture.

        However, I don't believe that is the case for people on this site, since it takes a dedicated person to participate in it.

        I think we all understand what is at stake and are very emotional about it.  It would be best to leave emotion at the door and deal with the facts, but I know that is hard for me and I supposed hard for others.

      •  Im not for candidates that throw me under the bus (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sumo

        When Hillary said to Mellon Scaife she wouldnt go to my church she didn't do one thing to try and heal her rift with the black community.  I'm not for Barack Obama IM AGAINST HILLARY CLINTON.

        FUCK HER THE NEOCON SHILL

        •  It's a shame (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Renie

          It's a shame that you're so bitter.  You're not going to be helping us to win this election by continuing to attack Clinton after we already won against her.  Focus your anger on McCain.

          Despite everything that has happened, McCain is still a far larger threat to everything you believe in that Clinton is, and deep down, you know this to be true.

          •  And it's a shame that you see fit (0+ / 0-)

            to label someone who appears deeply hurt as "bitter."

            You are doing NOTHING towards unity.  A comment like yours is guaranteed to inspire more rancor.  Recognizing valid grievances strengthens, rather than divides, this party.

      •  From another Edwards Dem (0+ / 0-)

        We are for the party, both campaign has their supporters that go overboard...I suggest to all that we cut the non-sense and look forward...guess what..the Republicans pray we are divided...do you want to grant their prayer?

      •  And when Carville called Richardson a Judas (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        WhitRobinson

        and the Clintons silently agreed, were
        they acting in the best long-term interests
        of the Democratic Party?

        Or just the short-term interests of the Clintons?

      •  No, YOUR post (0+ / 0-)
        is the perfect example of a nasty, gratuitous, mean-spirited attack: "Obama supporters teeter dangerously close to idolatry."  What a fucking asshole you are, repeating a "cult" meme that by all rights should be trollrated on sight.

        Had you bothered to actually engage this commenter, you would have read a few comments down that the commenter is actually a member of Wright's church who is resentful of Hillary's insulting statement that added to the demonization of that church.  No matter how people may or may not feel about this church, that commenter's resentment is real, it is reasonable, and it has nothing to do with "worship" of a fucking politician.

        Why don't you practice what you preach and actually learn some civility yourself?

    •  I'm giving you a rec (0+ / 0-)

      although I don't like "harpy."  There are some sanctimonious, hypocritical assholes on this thread, but please recognize that there are also people like me in Democratic party (for now) who most certainly respect your grievances against the Clintons, and have a few of our own as well.  That will not stop me from volunteering for this summer's 50-state voter registration drive and encouraging others to do the same.  But the Clintons can show some respect here and apologize for the divisiveness.  Until that is forthcoming, they remain an embarassment; a divisive embarassment.

    •  "harpy"? (0+ / 0-)

      Not very original, Rush.


      You looked better on Facebook...

      by Page van der Linden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:26:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hear, hear (6+ / 0-)

    and its not just Clinton supporters that should be welcomed back, but Edwards supporters as well. This hasn't exactly been a very friendly place for anyone who didn't support Obama up to this point.

    Lets forget old rivalries and move forward together.

    •  The Edwards fan club (0+ / 0-)

      really didn't do themselves too many favors. Insularity and passive aggressiveness are not traits that will win many friends.

      I also noted that as soon as your candidate exited stage left most of you stopped posting.

      You were never about the Democratic party but were about the promotion of two individuals, John and Elizabeth Edwards.

      May 6th 2008: IN Insignificance Day

      by stevej on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:22:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Stevej - (4+ / 0-)

        I take exception to your remarks.  I was a heavy Edwards supporter and I exhibited NONE of the traits you're so happy to paint us all with.

        As soon as Edwards dropped out of the race, I agreed to support YOUR candidate, Barack Obama.  And I have been working to support him ever since.

        I would kindly thank you to lose the chip on your shoulder and, for the benefit of the entire Democratic party, stop causing divisiveness that is only damaging.

        PS Thought the comment is not very flattering, and I find it personally offensive and stereotypical, I am not TR you in the spirit of unity and togetherness, but it would be nice if you apologized for your gross generalization.

      •  Dear Stevej (4+ / 0-)

        How, exactly, does diminishing and belittling the Edwards and Clinton supporters help your candidate?

        Do you not get that you need us to win in November? The vast, vast, vast majority of Democrats don't read Kos, DU or the myriad of other Democratic (read:Obama)-leading blogs. They don't know that they're expected to support Obama in November, come hell or high water.

        I hate to break it to you, pal, but Obama is quickly filling in that elitist Armani-tailored suit that's being tailored for him by the GOP, MSM and, yes, by Hillary.

        Democrats like those in the rustbelt and rural America who are suffering during this recession (to a degree you probably can't fathom) don't like elitists. They just don't, even if they are the nominee of the party the would otherwise support.

        Those voters who supported Hillary can imagine themselves voting for McCain. Yes, they're voting against their interests if they do. So? Ridicule them all you want, the end result is the same: McCain wins, and Obama loses.

        Again, you NEED these voters! They support Hillary (and, previously Edwards) as fervently as you do Obama. Diminish and dismiss them at your own peril in November. If McCain says what they want to hear -- and HOW  they want to hear it -- they'll vote for him. No, the gas tax holiday doesn't make sense if the only tank you have to fill is the Suburu you use to take your kids to the soccer field and back. It makes a whole lot of sense, though, if you have to fill-up an old rusted gas guzzler twice weekly because you're a rural route newspaper carrier, or have to drive yourself 50-miles back and forth to dialysis treatment two or three times a week. Pennies count for a lot of Americans. My sister, whose husband was laid off from his union job a year ago, has a terminally ill child and puts 500 miles per week on their only vehicle driving back and forth between five or six different doctors and up to 20 different medical appointments. A few extra bucks a week saved in filling up her gas tank buys the PediaSure that her son needs to survive -- and that Medicaid won't cover. You try telling her the gas tax holiday is pandering, and see how far you get.

        If we can't pull the Reagan Democrats back into the real Democratic Party this November, we will lose yet another generation.

        From here forward, I'm an Edwards Democrat.

        by pmcmscot on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:51:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Way to completely miss the point (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JSCram3254

        you don't do your candidate, or the democratic party much service at all.

        Insularity? passive aggressiveness? Read your post again.

        Its time to heal wounds, not throw in vinegar. Think about that before you post.

  •  Eyes on the prize (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, deha, gardenkitty, smash artist

    The main goal isn't toppling Hillary anymore.  Winning in Nov. and fixing our country is.  How can we claim to be progressive if we can't see the forest for the trees?  I would congratulate Hillary on her resilience and I would ask her supporters to put aside any differences, at least temporarily, and let's go fix this mess.    

  •  Dang, it's hard to be an adult. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, deha, xysea, bushondrugs, ArtSchmart

    This diary is full of adult, Barack-style wisdom.  I hope that those who still want to whine "But Mooooommm, SHE started it!" will grow up and be gracious.

    After all, we have an election to win.

  •  This whole diary assume Clinton's ability to (5+ / 0-)
    accept defeat and cease the divisive attacks. You vastly underestimate the Clinton's lack of shame and decency brought about by a need to win at all costs. Unless and until she official is out of the race, the only thing I'm reaching for is a phone or pen to write undecided, undeclared, un-whatever super delegates to end this insanity!

    Keep fighting!

  •  Thanks for Your Stand (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gardenkitty

    I appreciate your comments.  While I have never posted a diary and this is my first comment, I have read the Clinton bashing with glee.

    Your call for fair play speaks to my desire for us to come together and beat McCain, and that will begin to happen when I stop participating in the negativity.  That is true for each one of us.

    Obama is an inspiration: he knows how to be a winner without making Clinton into a Loser.  I know we can do the same.

  •  I completely concur (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gardenkitty

    As Thumper said on "Bambi", "If you can't say sumthin nice then don't say nuthin at all".

    Relief definitely helps stifle the anger that many of us justifiably built during this mess.  

    The next few days will be extremely telling in how dignified Hillary will be in concession.  If we see more of the same, justifications for the bad behavior, and whining about how unfairly she was treated then all bets are off the table for playing nice.  

    "I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence" Doug McLeod

    by artmartin on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:12:03 AM PDT

  •  let us just ACCEPT that Hillary is a double agent (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Spoonfulofsugar, WhitRobinson

    Let's just turn a blind eye to the destructive infestation... willing to vote for a war to look strong and after being caught to continue to spew the propaganda to ensure the killing of Iranians too!

  •  lets win first, or let her concede (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davidkc

    WE must hang together or we will all hang separately. B.Franklin

    by ruthhmiller on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:20:20 AM PDT

  •  Obama will end the Clinton bashing. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Decih

    More than that, he's likely to go overboard to hand out olive branches.  Seriously, we have nothing to gain by being Nelson-Muntz-esque about this.  The election is about issues and not about petty political maneuverings.

  •  Thank you. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, smash artist

    It needed to be said and it needs to be done.  I for one pledge to focus all my negativity in one direction: to the right.

    There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not? -Robert F. Kennedy

    by JSCram3254 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:22:18 AM PDT

  •  IMO (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, xysea

    Bashing has nothing to do with pointing ot real inconsistencies and problems. Everyone thinks that saying something negative about a candidate is bashing them, it isn't. Bashing is when you exaggerate or flat out lie about someone.

  •  If you wanna know why we can't let go (0+ / 0-)

    Listen to the Hillary conference call where garin is attacking Obama for "losing the white vote".

    ENOUGH ! GO AWAYYYYYYYYY !~

  •  Regarding Blame... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    xysea

    ...You can happy, or you can be right.

  •  no. (0+ / 0-)

    the enemy remains the enemy, and always will be the enemy.

    if clinton slinks back under her log and shuts up, as is appropriate, there will be no reason to pay attention to her. but so long as she's gobbling up political oxygen and undermining this party and its nominee with her vindictive, racist, quixotic campaign, she remains fair game.

  •  It "bashing" means telling the truth (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927, JCarter

    about what a cynical, self-indulgent, power-hungry elitist she is, then I am not going to stop the "bashing." I feel no pity for Hillary Clinton. And I look forward to her political demise. The people of New York should not send her back to the Senate after the sickening display of a campaign she has run.

  •  Just heard Wolfson frantically spinning (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JCarter

    this morning. DO you know they "won" Michigan? Unbelievable. Sorry but I'll be gracious only when Hillary faces up to reality and pulls out of this race, not until. The tactics that the Clintons have employed to "win" are despicable to be and I refuse to be gracious to her until she's long gone from this race.

  •  Sorry, I will BASH and BASH and BASH (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JCarter, WhitRobinson

    until she slithers back to the senate.

    Hillary = Palpatine
    -2.75/-1.38

    by jkddude on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:49:44 AM PDT

  •  whatever you say. (0+ / 0-)

    I wish people would stop telling others how to act.

    Here you are with a handful of holes, a thumb up your ass and a big grin to pass the time of day with.

    by jazzence on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:59:28 AM PDT

  •  I'll sign on to that (0+ / 0-)

    After all Hillary is going to make a great Supreme Court Justice.

  •  Thanks (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateG, greengrrl, smash artist

    Thanks for your message of reconciliation.  I totally agree with you.  It's time to stop this infighting and unify to face McCain.

    It disturbs me that so many commenters continue to be so retaliatory against Clinton.  That's not helping anyone.  WE WON!  Take your solace in that, not from further bashing the losers.

  •  I will end my Clinton bashing... (0+ / 0-)

    When they pry the nomination from her campaign's cold, dead fingers.

    /snark

  •  I'll have one last rant. . . (0+ / 0-)

    on the day she concedes.  Then I won't say a negative word toward her.  

    Still have some built up anger that needs to be released in between now and 5/20

  •  I'm sorry... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927
    To me, this is ludicrous.  Anyone who has willfully done damage to his/her party and nation for personal, selfish gain (as Clinton has for years now) gets no free pass.  This is the same as "The Bush bashing ends TODAY" on 1.20.09.  

    She doesn't get any slack because she dropped out 2 months after she should have, while running a completely negative campaign.  She and the other Republicans deserve nothing.

  •  I'll drop my weapons (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GN1927

    when she drops hers. Has everyone forgotten the Nuclear Option? She's not staying in because she can't do math, people! She's staying in because she's going to kick over the chessboard at the Rules Committee meeting. That's why all the rhetoric about who would win IF blah blah, and that's why the seemingly irrelevant argument that she'd be a better candidate.

    She's going to try to steal it. Mark my words.

  •  Satisfaction (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateG, chiniqua

    Great point here:

    I also strongly disagree that it is the responsibility of Hillary Clinton and her supporters to make the push towards unity.  We are the ones who have won, so we are responsible for building the coalition that will put our candidate into the White House.  This is the burden we bear as winners.  Just like it was the responsibility of Kerry supporters to reach out to Dean and Edwards supporters once he won the nomination, it is the responsibility of Obama supporters to reach out to Clinton supporters.

    This is important to remember.  We all need to remember what the objective is here: victory for the Democrats in Nov.  That's it.  Withholding reconciliation because we might want the satisfaction of seeing HRC's supporters eating crow and admitting the error of their ways might sound appealing but it won't get us where we want to go.  It's important to keep our eyes on the prize.

    And hey, this won't be accomplished over night.  People are still wound up and feelings are still raw.  That's okay.  We won't get there today but today is where we should begin the journey toward unity and reconciliation. I might suggest that if you're still too angry to lay down arms (totally understandable) then just refrain from commenting for a couple of days.  Or maybe even take a break from the tubes and wires for a day or two.  No one is going to be able to get over this stuff right away.  Let's just focus on trying to take steps in the right direction starting today.

    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Ghandi

    by Triscula on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:18:41 AM PDT

  •  so how should we answer "scorched earth" (0+ / 0-)

    Fox News is already airing the Hillary campaign spots that praise them as "Fair and Balance."

    The Republcian 527s, the RNC and McCain will the words she's already uttered against Obama, against Obama.

    How to do answer if she does go totally pyro against Obama so she can run in 2012.

    If u will not vote for the Dem. nominee, no matter who that is, go apologize 2 the youth of this nation. U've helped put in "100 years of war no Choice McCain."

    by Clytemnestra on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:19:05 AM PDT

    •  whoa metaphoric syncronicity n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords..."

      by pawlr on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:22:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I like metaphors esp the ones that fly in space (0+ / 0-)

        they come in, sling shot around the sun, pass by us every 75 years or so.

        ;-)

        If u will not vote for the Dem. nominee, no matter who that is, go apologize 2 the youth of this nation. U've helped put in "100 years of war no Choice McCain."

        by Clytemnestra on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:27:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  What else? (0+ / 0-)

      How to do answer if she does go totally pyro against Obama so she can run in 2012.

      If that happens, which I don't think it will, we simply ignore her. Trust that people are smart. If they see her turn to complete venom while Obama and his supporters remain positive, they'll understand what is happening.

      The only alternative we have to that is to make the situation worse for ourselves.

      Take back mass media!
      I'm a Michiganian, not a Michigander.

      by Decih on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:30:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  U know u're begging the "Fatal Attraction" assoc. (0+ / 0-)

        we simply ignore her

        People have already been making that association

        If u will not vote for the Dem. nominee, no matter who that is, go apologize 2 the youth of this nation. U've helped put in "100 years of war no Choice McCain."

        by Clytemnestra on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:42:00 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I agree - but Clinton scorched the earth (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    EMorgan

    and she hasn't put her flamethrower down yet.

    "I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords..."

    by pawlr on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:21:35 AM PDT

    •  Yep... (0+ / 0-)

      ...the time to act gracious is after she concedes, and not until. She has turned herself and her husband into race-baiting Dixiecrats. She, Sid Blumenthal, Harold Ickes, Howard Wolfson and the like betrayed every impulse that drove them into politics: they did anything and everything to destroy the most inspiring candidate since JFK for the pursuit of power. They haven't given up yet, and until they do, it's unwise to count her out. Olive branches for concession only: as long as her robots are still trying to kneecap Obama, we keep fighting.

  •  I disagree with the third update... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sockpuppet, EMorgan, Livvy5

    A rift in this party was caused by the Clintons, some of her staunch supporters like Lisa Caputo, bloggers like Taylor Marsh, Hillaryis44, and others.

    They didn't campaign for their candidate, they went to war against ours. They accused Obama of being everything from a Muslim, to a black seperatist, to an elitist snob. Hillary herself wouldn't deny that Obama was a muslim when pressed, even. This is unprecedented bile that was totally uncalled for and it's game for interpartisan campaigning, not intrapartisan.

    In my mind, the door is open for anyone that wants to join us in supporting Barack Obama's, our presumptive nominee's, run for the White House, but I am not going to waste my time trying to coddle these people.

    I'm so bitter that people grimace when they see me walking down the street.

    by Junkyard Dem on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:27:27 AM PDT

  •  Nice sentiment (3+ / 0-)

    But I don't think so.  No politician gets a free pass and holding them accountable for shenanigans has yielded us an incredible presidential candidate with an incredible campaign organization ready to face the numerous challenges which will arise this summer and this fall.  

    I will continue to hold Hillary and Bill Clinton accountable for their antics.  

    As for the "strikers," what value can those who participated in that grandstanding, malicious act really bring here?  

    Let intellectually honest people debate, conversate, and share stories of our upcoming participation in the general elections, which IMO is going to be one for the history books.

    A few nights ago, highacidity posted a "Food Bomb" diary which resulted in dozens of Obama campaign offices receiving food deliveries from grateful dkos readers.  The level of positivity in that diary would not have been possible were this site still flooded with the various trolls, liars, and mean-spirited smear merchants who did us the favor of getting the hell out.

    So again, this is a nice sentiment, but (1) sorry, the Clintons are still the most visible Democratic politicians and should still be held to account; and (2) some of those Clinton supporters who were "run off" of this site were making the site toxic and their absence is appreciated.

  •  Excellent post. Tipped and Rec'd (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, synductive99

    Interesting timing.

    I responded to a Bill Clinton sex joke comment that I laughed for the first time I can remember.

    Those jokes always pissed me off.

    It was a clear sign that my attitude about the Clintons had substantially changed.

    Reading your post made me feel a little bad that I'd laughed.

    In that same series of comments, I believe I used a sports analogy that most of the guys out there will get. Mine comes from soccer, but you'll get it.

    I support FC Dallas in MLS. This off season they sent Carlos Ruiz back to the LA Galaxy. Before he played for Dallas I thought he was a whiny flopper. While he played for Dallas, I saw his complaints to the ref as legitimate a lot of the time. But now that he's back with LA, I'm sure that I will again view him as a whiny flopper.

    The soccer analogy works really well here, even better than other sports.

    I was able to root passionately against Ruiz when the US played Guatemala (the national team Ruiz plays for), but for him just days later when he played for Dallas.

    To me, Clinton is like Landon Donovan. I want to see him and LA buried whenever they play Dallas... but when he's playing for the US, I love him.

    Not saying that I'm going to love Hillary.

    But I will love it when she and Bill go after McCain and the Republicans like they went after Obama.

  •  I disagree with everything in this diary. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Junkyard Dem

    First, dKos is STILL a powerful blog.

    Second, if hillary is ridiculed, it's because she has it coming.  If we don't do it, the late night hosts will.  Deal with it.

    Third, even after all this primary crap, we are still a shoe-in for the general.  There's no way McCain can beat Obama.  A few sourpuss hillaristas are not going to stop the movement.

    Fourth, after all the Hillary trolling I've put up with for the last year or so, "Obamabots" are entitled to some e-comeuppance.  I heartily look forward to popping some corn and hopping over to myDD and watching as they cry and cut themselves.  

    Yes, I acknowledge that that makes me spiteful and immature.  As an anonymous chump on teh itrnetz I feel that is absolutely my right.

  •  Great diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Junkyard Dem, synductive99

    I've been an Obama supporter since shortly after John Edwards dropped out, and I have to say that, by and large, Obama has been especially classy in resonding to some un-classy acts.  

    Obama's improbably campaign is uniting Democrats (and Independents, and Republicans), and I think the spirit of that campaign can be better reflected on DailyKos.  Hopefully this post is part of that journey.

  •  Let Hillary Stop Bashing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Junkyard Dem

    She is rolling along with the same old bull****.  

    I did not have sex with that sniper!

    by Lefty Ladig on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:46:23 AM PDT

  •  Outstanding diary! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateG, brn2bwild, JSCram3254, Junkyard Dem

    and long overdue. We should never eat our own. It's just sooo right wing.

  •  I'm Done - (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JSCram3254, redtex, fernan47

    At least until I can't stand it any more.  I'm a criminal defense attorney.  I go to work every day and talk to DAs whose ass I'm about to try to kick, and I'm perfectly nice to them.  Usually, when I do kick their ass, they're nice to me.  If they beat me, I try to look for a strategic advantage for the next round before I get mad.  If they're sneaky, I try to turn it around on them before I get mad.  Covering your ass and trying to win usually aren't incompatible with civility.  

    You don't think Obama's advantage in this race has anything to do with his ability to maintain his composure under pressure - do you?

  •  Agree 1000%. Thanks for this. eom (0+ / 0-)
  •  I bow down to no one. (0+ / 0-)

    I only see Obama folks reaching out to Clinton folks. I don't see Clinton folks doing it, they're just being nasty and racist (see Hillaryis44.org).

    They can suck an egg for all i care.

  •  this thread is so viral my computer can't keep up (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, JSCram3254, redtex, sasatlanta

    I would have like to post replies to some of the more vitriolic comments but couldn't get into the thread.

    Look, I never supported Hillary in this contest although I have supported the Clinton's from the beginning.  

    And this site is too ugly, too much of the time.  Anyone suspected of not being and Obamabot is trashed.  Now, maybe the trashers are trolls or just naturally vicious, but it does Democrats damage and it does Obama great damage.  So if people can't hold the metaphorical tongues, they are damaging the planet and acting like babies or worse.

    The idea of calling for purity in the Democratic party is beyond ridiculous.  I am a radical Democrat.  There is no other viable place for me to go.  If a viable third party to the left of the Democratic party were to emerge, I would be there in a hot second.  That said I am a strong Democrat from a family of Democrats in every direction.

    If Obama were the paragon some of you believe him to be, he would not be in the Democratic party.  That is not a left hand compliment: it is a solid compliment to him.  His reality check is in good order.

    I am disgusted with the Clinton's right now and don't know how they will find their way back.  They went to the Dark Side, but Aniken Skywalker went there too and Luke Skywalker still had faith in his father and that saved the known Universe, so. . .

    I can't trust bloggers who push hate.  The Net is home to much hatred, but it should be hide rated at DKos.  What to do if front pagers foster this: nothing but offer dissent.

    It does no good here to present a logical argument when people won't confront what is staring them in the face.

    I called Hillary's DC office and announced my disappointment when we got to the 'I would have quit the church' comment.  I was totally polite and got hung up on for name calling when I didn't call anyone names.  

    Point: everyone's nerves went over the edge.  So  I can forgive bashing, to an extent. But the confirmed bashers on this thread are driving away people who should be here AND LOSING OBAMA THE ELECTION IF THEY KEEP THIS UP.

    Look, nothing about this election fits any paradigm we know.  Everything will be chaos.  To insist that we will not encounter racism and sexism in this historic election cycle is silly.

    We must hold ourselves to the highest standards because it is the only way to win.  Why isn't this obvious?

    disclaimer: i support obama, i fight racism and sexism and other -isms, i was for edwards, hillary needs to sit down now

    by fernan47 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:04:00 AM PDT

  •  NY-Sen 2012 primary says keep whacking her (0+ / 0-)
    Don't let up until she taps out. And don't let up then.
  •  Hillary is a pro and she has said many times she (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brn2bwild, chiniqua

    will support the nominee and made a point of that in her speech in Indiana.  Kossacks confuse vigorous campaigning and gamesmanship with negativity.  Hillary was not responsible for Reverend Wright or bitter gate.  You have the media to blame for that.

    The winner's responsibility is to unify the party.  She will be a willing partner because the Clintons have always been team players.  They have worked for every Democratic candidate since the McGovern years.  Bill got out of his hospital bed, barely out of surgery, to help John Kerry in 2004 even though Kerry was a flawed candidate (thanks for the gratitude John...sorry but had to throw that one in).  Obama will need an ally against the Democratic establishment that favored him but will later extract concessions from him (appointments, scheduling).  Clinton is an important power broker in the party and she can be of great assistance to the nominee.  She will be a willing partner. She will also be an important surrogate on the campaign trail (either as the VP nominee or heavyweight to speak on behalf of candidates).

    Obama and Clinton should have conversations about how to have her exit the race with dignity (I believe those talks are starting through various supers).  They should also sit down to talk about the possibility of a joint ticket without precondition or promises, and other ways for the two to work together.  She is a pro and they will get this done for the good of the party.

    Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

    by khyber900 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:12:15 AM PDT

    •  "without precondition or promises" (0+ / 0-)

      Are you implying that she could still be on top of the ticket? Most of the time, I have heard this phrase in this context.

      If so, that is delusional.

      If not, please elaborate on what else you might mean by that.

      Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

      by Suvro on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:49:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No. He is the presumptive nominee. He has the (0+ / 0-)

        numbers to show it.  Here is what I mean by no preconditions or promises:

        I think these candidates have had good chemistry on stage and it's really the length of the campaign that has polarized supporters and the media.  

        From Clinton's side, she has to be willing to adapt to a subservient role and prove to Obama that she can provide all of her assets without the controversy.  She shouldn't make demands, but should offer suggestions and ask questions, much like she did in her courting of the Edwards', which impressed them very much.  Bill won't be a problem, because he has his foundation to run and can help Obama when asked on the campaign trail where he is most effective.

        From Obama's side, he is getting a lot of pressure from the liberal Democratic establishment to shove her aside.  Obama should be wise enough to understand that his interests and those of his liberal counterparts do not necessarily coincide as far as the general election and governing are concerned.

        She can clearly expand his reach to key voter groups and guarantee an Obama victory by adding states to the mix.  She can also help him double or triple the expected contributions.  She can help drum up support for downticket races because she is a big draw and can help in red america or blue america.  She can also be a very effective, tenacious attack dog and can handle the media with ease.  She will kick the crap out of the GOP VP candidate in the debate.

        As far as governing is concerned, Clinton is a wonk and Obama is not.  She can get things done working with the Congress and she can be his bad cop when the White House needs to tell Pelosi or the GOP to shut up. Clinton can also provide valuable advice on a number of policy issues and will have great credibility abroad as she is known and respected by everyone.  

        Alternative rock with something to say: http://www.myspace.com/globalshakedown

        by khyber900 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:30:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  OK. (0+ / 0-)

          I think you make very good points that I had not considered before.

          One thing I know is that Obama marches to his own tune. Left to myself, I would want to destroy Senator McCain and the current incarnation of the Republican party. But I know Obama wants to be respectful of his opponent.

          Similarly, I think he will withstand pressure groups from any which side they may come and make his own decision.

          It will not be based on whether Hillary wins the white votes in West Virginia or North Carolina or Indiana. It will be based on who  will demonstrate the same political temperament as Obama, and will work to bring the country back from the precipice we are staring into.

          I can see some of the assets that Hillary and Bill Clinton will bring. I dearly wish, as a supporter of the many good things Bill Clinton did, to see them rehabilitate themselves with me and the many Democratic voters that they are dissing daily. I don't see why they are digging this hole for themselves willingly. (They lost me when she said she does not want to put her lot in with economists and other anti-intellectual ideas and the nastiness emanating from surrogates like Carville) They have only themselves to blame for this, and only they can redeem themselves. I hope it happens.

          Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

          by Suvro on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:46:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Very Mixed Feelings (0+ / 0-)

    Some of what is contained here is good sage advice, but I'm not sure it's in our best interest as a party in the long run.

    This web site is not just about electing democrats, it's about electing better democrats. Yes Hillary is a democrat, yes she agrees with us on a majority of policy issues, but so do most of the blue dogs even.

    But it's in some of these few areas where she differs combined with her willingness to compromise her own integrity that made her deserving of our scorn.

    I don't expect any democrat to agree with me on every issue, but if the one where they disagree is the one that causes thousands to die needlessly, then they have committed a truly evil act. That is a crime against humanity, and it must be exposed and punished for what it is.

    And those who supported her in spite of that are equally complicit. These people represent the worst in humanity. We don't need them.

    We don't need to reconstruct this party with flawed partners, we need to rebuild it with good and decent partners who will work to strengthen it, not weaken it through triangulation, deception, and ill will.

    A regime is at it's most dangerous when it believes it's own propaganda...but that is also when it is most vulnerable.

    by MaverickModerate on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:13:09 AM PDT

  •  I don't like HRC; I have reasons. I will not..l (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    krnewman

    pretend she did not meet with Scaife and write the Right-Wing a dream permission slip to do ANYTHING. Thanks to her, NOTHING is off the table.

    She ran a racist, kitchen sink campaign and now he will still have to spend millions defending himself against her continued attacks. Millions that could be used to fight McCain.

    Her narcissism has no end.

    This is the wrong time to be magnanimous.

    "Never was so little asked of so many by so few"--Stephen Colbert

    by EMorgan on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:19:27 AM PDT

  •  i won't bash hrc... (0+ / 0-)

    but i won't support her either...in my opinion the damage is done...

    hooked on phonics worked for me

    by letinstar on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:40:51 AM PDT

  •  Commend Smash Artist 100% (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JSCram3254

    Now is the time for positivity - and all
    laud and honor to Smash Artist for this
    intelligent analysis and posting.
      I very much hope and expect if Clinton
    does any further campaigning it will simply
    be unity rhetoric and she will be making
    the case for all Democrats, talking about
    the Congress as well as Presidential race.
    I don't know if she will do this, but I sense
    things are changing - even today.
       Her presence in KY, WVA and OR can be
    useful if she takes a creative approach. I
    think she has to appear, but as an advocate
    for the Democratic ticket whoever it will
    comprise.
       I strongly support Smash Arist and unity,
    and FORGET THE BLAME GAME. I bid all kossacks
    to join in this effort - it is the only
    reasonable way.
    JIM
    santa fe

  •  ALL THIS WORRY IS FOR NAUGHT! (0+ / 0-)

    Sorry about the all caps but c'mon already!

    When Hillary concedes and endorses Obama, we're all gonna be very grateful and the bashing will end.  

    If you crap on someone, they are gonna get mad.  All she needs to do is stop and everything is gonna be OK, I promise!

    It's the fascism, stupid!

    by lastman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:44:34 AM PDT

  •  Clinton camp bashing liberals (0+ / 0-)

    Paul Begala is on network TV running down liberals like Ronald Reagan. In the same conversation he attacks "eggheads and African Americans."

    Hillary Clinton is running a destructive campaign for naught but her own ambition. in 1980, Ted Kennedy ran in the primary through the convention - pushing for universal health care.

    Setting aside Hillary's own lust for power what issue is she campaigning for? None!

    If the Clinton campaign wants to end hostilities, they could be the first ones to make that move. But they are increasing hostilities. Your blame is laid at the wrong feet!

    I'm an American Liberal. Blogging in between family, work and activism time.

    by AlphaLiberal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:48:18 AM PDT

  •  Follow the leader. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SlackerInc, JSCram3254

    Obama has already spoken compliments to her.

    A friend asked why the Obama campaign wasn't attacking the Magnequench ad. (Which attributed a plant closing to Bush which was really Bill Clinton's fault.) I believe that the reason was simple. She wasn't attacking Obama in the ad.

    He doesn't wantt o get in a fight with her. Maybe his supporters shouldn't get in a fight with her supporters.

    "The three main issues in this campaign are Iraq, Iraq, and Iraq." -- Bill Foster

    by Frank Palmer on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:02:47 AM PDT

  •  And don't forget: (4+ / 0-)

    The mission of this web site is electing the Democratic nominee, regardless of who wins.
       
    If Clinton had won the nomination, this site would would be 100% dedicated to defending and evangelizing Hillary Clinton---just as it did for Kerry in 2004.  
     
    This fact must make some brains explode among those folks who see Clinton as the Great Triangulating Satan.  

    •  WRONG!! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sean O

      "On Mar. 17 2008, Moulitsas stated that Senator Hillary Clinton did not stand for the principles behind The Daily Kos and said Clinton "doesn't deserve fairness on this site." He equated the Democratic primary to a "civil war." His statement was precipitated by a 'strike' conducted by several prominent pro-Clinton bloggers, even though none of these posters were paid or in anyway officially linked to the site. Moulitsas noted that if bloggers were dissatisfied, there were plenty of other websites at which to blog."

      Wikipedia entry.

      As of May 7, only 172 delegates needed for Barack!

      by RadicalGardener on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:39:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What does that prove? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        brn2bwild

        None of what you quoted changes the basic fact that this site will work to elect the Democratic nominee, regardless of who that is.
                 
        Seriously, what do you think would happen instead?  Do you honestly believe Markos would just shut the site down, or repurpose it for a different political party, if Clinton was the nominee?
         

  •  As far as I'm concerned (0+ / 0-)

    That'll depend on her attitude going forward.

  •  Beware the Zombie! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RadicalGardener

    Until she accepts reality and checks herself into political rehab, Hillary has joined the ranks of the un-dead, as far as I'm concerned. That's all.

    She and Bill have proven they will do anything (even do and say things that serve no constructive purpose for their party or their nation) to further their political and personal ambitions. So until she formally and unequivocally leaves the stage, I'm taking nothing for granted.

    I, for one, expect her to try to spin "game-changing, momentum-shifting, upsets" out of her expected WV and KY wins. And a good portion of the pinhead MSM will sit there, scratching their heads, and wonder aloud "Maybe she has something there..."

    And as far as "negotiating" with Obama, let's be real: She has no leverage, no chips to play. Obama knows it. Even throwing HRC the bone of seating FL and MI, in the most likely scenario (FL delegate apportionment "as is"; MI 50/50 split), Barack will still go into Denver with leads in primary and caucus delegates, overall popular vote, and any other reasonable metric you want to put out there. So what's she negotiating for? The goodwill (and tenuous support) of people who don't like change? The "it's her turn" chorus?

    Don't think so.

    So, before we get all Kumbaya up in here, let's remember: Barack Obama won for a reason. He opposed and opposes the old Washington and flawed judgment that typifies Hillary, Bill and their DLC gang.

    To maintain his cred with his base of support, and to attract even more independents going into the General, he doesn't need to make nice with Hillary. And he doesn't need to reject her or denounce her, either. He simply needs to ignore her.

    I think that people want peace so much that one of these days government had better get out of their way and let them have it. - Dwight D. Eisenhower

    by scrape on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:16:04 AM PDT

  •  Delete this crap (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrostyKotex

    If you are watching her press conference, you'd realize that that now is NOT the time to take our foot off the gas.

  •  I hate premature diaries like (7+ / 0-)

    this.  The careful scrutiny of Clinton and her claims, coupled with the denunciation of her ugly actions, will only end on that day when she finally concedes the nomination and gets out of this race.  until that occurs we can't begin reconciliation because we have to defend ourselves and counter her ugly attacks.

  •  premature... (0+ / 0-)

    the poster forgets this woman changes her accents like i do my socks, never mind her attitude and positions. Who knows what she thinks and is up to.

  •  As long as she doesn't talk like a racist repub. (0+ / 0-)

    I'll have nothing to criticize will I?

    Now, who wants to obliterate Iran and is pandering to Americans with a bogus gas tax holiday?

    "In a time of hype, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell

    by erin r on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:39:52 AM PDT

  •  I will continue to ridicule Mrs. Clinton. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chiniqua, WhitRobinson

    I say this as someone who has only lukewarm enthusiasm for Mr. Obama.

    I'll ridicule Mrs. Clinton for the same reason I ridicule Senators Lieberman and Biden, and John McCain - because it is the job of political satire to highlight politicians' inconsistencies.

    I'll continue to ridicule her because I suspect that Clinton represents a tribe of Democrat who has been selling out y'all's party, bit by bit, to the right; diluting the Democratic message and making it appear as though having liberal values is a thing to be ashamed of.

    If it's any consolation, though, for every occasion Clinton gives me to laugh at her, John McCain gives me three.

  •  Congratulations Obama! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JSCram3254, smash artist
  •  Her performance as a candidate... (0+ / 0-)

    and in Congress disqualifies her as a senatorial representative of the people of New York.  She has not represented their values and interests well.  This does not mean continued bashing, but rather offering legitimate criticism.  She has been a real disappointment and that's why she lost the nomination and why she will lose her Senate seat at the next election.  

    Kennedy era: The business of America is America. Reagan era: The business of America is Business. Bush era: The Business of America is screwing America.

    by djohnutk on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:05:29 AM PDT

  •  Glad to see this recommended (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KateG, brn2bwild, JSCram3254, smash artist

    and much discussed.

    I am in wholehearted agreement that the style (tone) of the discussion is as important as the substance. (and have been posting a few comments and diaries on this in the past few months.)

    The acknowledged 'anonymity' of the internet can exacerbate the tendency to mock..revile etc...but a real discourse among those who want to elect democrats requires a bit of restraint (though it is still helpful not to be sensitive!) Restraint which may even lead to the ability to understand the views of those who support a different candidate a bit better.

  •  I think this is the key (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RadioGirl

    From HuffingtonPost political editor and Pulitzer professor of journalism at Columbia Thomas Edsall's writing today:

    "After the Reverend Wright controversy, Hillary Clinton had the nomination in her hands. Obama was suffering the worst press month of his campaign," said Republican media consultant Alex Castellanos. "Then she had a choice. She could have gotten bigger, more presidential, less political, could have risen to defend Obama. 'This is outrageous and has no place in politics.' She didn't do that. Instead, she chose to become smaller, more political, less presidential. Her own political instincts betrayed her."

    Had Hillary not betrayed her own political instincts (at least I surmise that based on her Democratic affiliation and past history) to stand tall to the smear merchants, she might just have looked more presidential.

    Obama in his speech yesterday did exactly that. I am proud to support Obama.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

    by Suvro on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:29:52 AM PDT

  •  i would bet money that if obama lost in nov (6+ / 0-)

    Many of his supporters will find a way to blame Hillary for it, even if she comes out throwing her support behind him.
    I guarantee it.

  •  HRC ends "Clinton bashing" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    steelman, alizard, WhitRobinson

    when she stops trying to kneecap our presumtive nominee.  Until then, I must assume she is trying to throw the general election to McCain so she can run an "I told you so" campaign in 2012.

    Of course it's never too soon to start planning a primary challenge for HRC's Senate seat.  The sooner the Clinton's are driven out of modern politics, the better.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:39:01 AM PDT

  •  If HRC drops out... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alizard

    then I'm all about ending the Clinton bashing.  But as long as Hillary "the Terminator who will stop till you're dead" Clinton is still in the race, she's fair game.

  •  SHE'S POISONING THE PARTY... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alizard, WhitRobinson

    for her own personal political reasons.  Even if she drops out now (which it looks like she won't) she will continue to poison Obama and the Democratic Party so that she can mount another campaign in 2012.  This is obvious.  

    Telling the truth about Hillary, pointing out her inconsistence, calling her lies what they are (lies) is not "bashing".

  •  I agree, as long as the Clintons disarm (0+ / 0-)

    If they start throwing punches again it's back on.

  •  I'll stop "bashing" Clinton, when Clinton stops.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WhitRobinson

    .."bashing" Obama.

    How does that sound?

  •  There can be no unifying until Hillary drops out. (0+ / 0-)

    There is no way Obama supporters can possibly extend an olive branch to Hillary and her supporters while Hillary is continuing to attack Obama, hurt his chances for the GE, and pull in votes for herself.

  •  POLL on CCN now (0+ / 0-)

    Should Hillary drop out?

    Go vote Ko's community

  •  Maybe. But... (0+ / 0-)
     

    "But more and more lately, it has gone past normal criticisms, and has become pure hostility."

    I'm sorry.  But I do take exception to this observation from you.

    I was a devoted Edwards supporter.  Once he left the race, and after I regained my balance (knocked the wind out for awhile), I was completely neutral to the other two candidates, Obama or Clinton.  And I stayed that way for a few months, carefully evaluating every word and campaign promise they each made.

    But then Hillary took a very ugly turn.  Her campaign tactics began to look so familiar.  Like exactly what I would expect from RoveCo.  I was extremely disappointed in Hillary, who I've always admired as a Senator, as First Lady, and as an accomplished female attorney.

    But then her tactics got even worse than I ever imagined a Democrat would go, much less against another Democrat.  And as her scorched-earth tactics became ever more strident, shrill and extreme, (not to mention the pathological lying, which I'm sick to death of out of Washington), yeah, I began to feel actual hostility toward her.

    It's pretty bad when I finally had to concede to my Bush-cult-devoted Rethug siblings that they had been right about Hillary all those years they said such rabid-frothing things about her, like, "She's only in it for herself.  She'll do anything to promote Hillary."  Yeah, to their glee, I