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The competitiveness of this year’s presidential election has brought the candidates to more of our communities than any other election in recent years. I believe our democracy is stronger when voters are given an opportunity to learn more about the candidates.

Senator John McCain lands in Washington state today to host a $33,100/plate event at a hotel in Bellevue. Most of us would use $33,100 to pay for our child’s college education or a down payment on a home.

When Senator McCain’s plane lands at Boeing Field, I hope he takes a moment to notice that he is surrounded by the world’s finest workers and airplanes.

The competitiveness of this year’s presidential election has brought the candidates to more of our communities than any other election in recent years. I believe our democracy is stronger when voters are given an opportunity to learn more about the candidates.

Senator John McCain lands in Washington state today to host a $33,100/plate event at a hotel in Bellevue. Most of us would use $33,100 to pay for our child’s college education or a down payment on a home.

When Senator McCain’s plane lands at Boeing Field, I hope he takes a moment to notice that he is surrounded by the world’s finest workers and airplanes.

He led the fight in Washington D.C. that reversed a major tanker contract for Boeing. He’s talked about this often and prides himself for asking the tough questions.

Recently, the Bush Administration chose a European company – not Boeing – for a new $40 billion contract to build tankers for our military. This contract would have created 44,000 jobs in communities all across America, including 9,000 in my state of Washington.

Hundreds of elected officials nationwide are rallying against this decision. But Senator McCain is silent, asking no questions and seemingly content with 44,000 of our jobs and $40 billion of our tax dollars going overseas.

Like most, I was confused and angry when I heard the news. I will continue to work with Washington’s Congressional delegation to find out why the Bush Administration made this decision.

Everybody knows that American workers build the best planes in the world. And I think we should have American hands building planes for our brave men and women in uniform – now more than ever.

Our national economy is undermined by the rising price of oil and the falling prices of our homes. Some states have lost hundreds-of-thousands of jobs in recent months.

Fortunately, Washington is not among those states. Since 2005, we’ve created more than 215,000 new jobs, doubled exports to $66 billion and reduced red tape. Independent economists have said that these results have created a buffer that should insulate our state from the worst impacts of the national economy. Even so, Washingtonians still face economic troubles.

Each trip to the supermarket is another reminder that no state is entirely immune from troubles in the national economy. Food prices are up, and consumer confidence is down as we spend more for less.

Our lack of confidence in the economy is mirrored by our lack of confidence in the Bush Administration. We need leaders who take on challenges and get results, but our nation only gets more of the same failed policies and politics from the other Washington.

To help our national economy, the Bush Administration sends us $600 "economic stimulus" checks. I have no doubt that many need this money. It will buy a month’s worth of groceries and pay for the rising cost of gasoline.

But the Bush Administration sent $40 billion of economic stimulus to Europe. And I have no doubt that $40 billion and 44,000 new good-paying jobs would feed entire communities and repair lives broken by debt and the loss of homes.

This November, we will decide if we want more of the failed policies and partisan politics of the Bush Administration or a new direction for America.

You and I agree that America needs a new direction, and our voices and votes will make it happen.

Sincerely,
Chris

www.ChrisGregoire.com

Originally posted to Governor Chris Gregoire on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:31 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks for this diary and for reminding (115+ / 0-)

    us the danger of allowing Bush to have a third term.

    NetrootNews coming soon!

    by ksh01 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:34:03 AM PDT

        •  Thank you, Your Honor. (16+ / 0-)

          A wonderful Governor and Neighbor to the North.

          Thank you for this diary.

          "Our world is not a bullet point, added to a speech to drum up support or votes. It is the point of all that we do and are as a species."

          by Patch Adam on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:04:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This diary is not wonderful. (48+ / 0-)

            Boeing has a lot of nerve whining over their loss of this contract after they ripped off  American taxpayers for billions in the procurement scandal four years ago. Why should I care whether the jobs are in Washington or Alabama? Why should I care if the profits go to American billionaires or European billionaires?

            Here's an idea: How about instead or spending more than the rest of the world combined on tools of violence, we spend money rebuilding our infrastructure? It'd be pretty hard to outsource those jobs.

            Everybody knows that American workers build the best planes in the world.

            This statement is just stupid. "Everybody" knows this? I've been on Airbus planes and they're pretty deluxe. In fact they're nicer than Boeing planes. I suppose that "everybody" also knows that America is the greatest country in the world. You know, "everybody" except the people who have actually visited other countries.

            miasmo.com If you're not a liberal, you're a dick.

            by miasmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:20:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  And aren't the planes being assembled in a plant (11+ / 0-)

              in Mobile?  I seem to remember my dad saying that Airbus is building a plant in Mobile to assemble the planes for this contract.  The parts are being manufactured across the Pond, but there are some American jobs resulting from this.

              And yeah- why should Boeing be trusted after they've proven they have no qualms in ripping us off?  I hate it, but if we have to spend the money then maybe we shouldn't give it to people who have no compunctions in ripping us off.

              "And we will remember this when we are old and ancient, though the specifics might be vague..."- The Decemberists, "July, July"

              by electricgrendel on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:49:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Seems about right (12+ / 0-)

                Has it occured to you that by selectively discriminating WHERE jobs go such as AL or overseas, that the republican war machine economically favors historically republican states over democratic ones.  But the outsourcing of commercial non-aerospace (export controlled) continues unabated.

                It should be really neat when hyperinflation hits real soon and there are no jobs in blue states.  Why bother incarcerating 'libruls' when they can economically devastate them?

                Orwell meet George the 43rd

                by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:07:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The Iraq war may have (7+ / 0-)

                  been brought to us courtesy of the republicans, but the military industrial complex, as evidenced by the governor's diary, is definitely a bipartisan phenomenon.

                  Are these $40 billion planes really necessary?

                  •  Sooner or later we won't be able to buy them (8+ / 0-)

                    They are not necessary in the strictest sense of the word because the money spent really doesn't do much for the US. If we spent 40 Billion on Infrastructure here, it would produce a large number of jobs plus a continuing economic return.

                    But they are necessary to the existence of the MIC and to the safety of the air crews because of a ill thought out  foreign policy. Once we change the policy there is far less need. I think the policy will only be changed as a result of economic expediency. Meaning we are going broke and can't afford to keep the empire.  

                    Buying the planes from Boeing is a short term fix with minimal return on investment in that once the contract is finished the jobs it created or maintained at Boeing and the various states it operates in will be dependent on another large contract that the govt may not have the money to hand out.

                    Economic Dependence on Govt spending on military hardware is kinda like depending on crack for a good day. Once the money is gone it gets real depressing  both  mentally and economically. The company gets lazy and doesn't invest smartly which lowers exports which we desperately need. Boeing is a huge part of our exports.

                    Plus we are borrowing money to buy these planes that has to be repaid which in turn causes the planes to cost far more than the sticker.

                    I understand the Gov. has to defend her state, but it's the same short term thinking that has brought us such a huge debt which ultimately will become a tax burden.

                    We need the planes like a crack addict needs crack and a politician needs jobs to keep their job. That kind of thinking keeps us accelerating towards economic disaster.

                    If Boeing gets more efficient and more creative because of the loss of the contract to beat out Airbus, we all may be better off in the long term. Corporate welfare has got to stop somewhere. Just like our foreign policy, we just can't afford it.

                    Support Col Hackworth's watchdog group for the troops with money or a sign

                    by Dburn on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:07:41 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Airbus did not win this contract (2+ / 0-)

                      because they had the best suited planes for the tankers.

                      The metrics were changed several times along the way - to fit the Airbus planes

                      "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                      by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:42 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It's all about the lobbyists. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        cometman, OleHippieChick

                        This one time they lost out because the Northup-Grumman lobbyists out-lobbied their lobbyists. It's all bullshit - corrupt bullshit that has nothing to do with what's best for Americans. If Gregoire can expose some McCain corruption to help Obama and other Dems in her state in November, more power to her. But don't expect me to get worked up over which corrupt defense contractor out-lobbied the other. A pox on them all. They've stolen our democracy, just like Ike said they would.

                        miasmo.com If you're not a liberal, you're a dick.

                        by miasmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:10:51 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  if metrics changed (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Dauphin, LightningMan

                        and my understanding is they didn't...

                        the 767 is being phased out. why would you want another plane that is going to be obsolete, except for the few that you are purchasing?

                        jim albaugh's "we didn't think they wanted a bigger plane" reeks of arrogance in that they assumed they would win the contract, even with an inferior product.

                    •  Great response, Dburn (4+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      miasmo, Oye Sancho, vbdietz, goshzilla

                      So true.  The whole policy debate is just totally skewed in the States.  The country spends more on defense than the rest of NATO, China and Russia combined.  That's not just a crack habit.  Its smoking crack with a crystal meth chaser and a shot of Jack for dessert!

                •  So true (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  bleeding blue

                  This is of course the GOP plan to begin with and the GOP Senator was with McCain to begin with to give the tankers to Airbus.

                  "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                  by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:48:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Boeing screwed over WA state hard (8+ / 0-)

                a few years ago when they moved their corporate headquarters to Chicago.  They left with the promise that only the corporate guys were moving and Washington plants would still get the contracts and Boeing employees would still have their jobs.

                It didn't take very long until Boeing had a contract, which they only awarded to the WA plants after a bidding process and a concession from the governor at the time of 3 billion dollars in tax breaks.

                So the workers keep their jobs in exchange for donating $3 billion bucks to the Boeing fat cats.  And politicians allow it to happen.

                Hopefully Gregoire will end the string of WA state politicians who continue to allow Boeing to basically extort the company's workers.

                "The meek shall inherit nothing" - F. Zappa

                by cometman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:19:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  How About WA State Stops Pimping for the War $$ (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  miasmo, cometman, enough, OleHippieChick

                  And tell Boeing to leave and never come back.

                  Any company in the top 5 of military spending is a company my morals want nothing to do with.

                  Jobs or no jobs.  

                  I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

                  by VeganMilitia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:37:08 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm not real happy (11+ / 0-)

                    about them being such a major defense contractor, so I know how you feel.  But Boeing does employ tens of thousands of people in WA state, not to mention all the associated businesses who also depend on Boeing employees for their livelihoods.  People gotta work since they still gotta eat.

                    I'd rather see them concentrate on better civilian aircraft.  And if politicians got a little creative, they could spend money on transportation infrastructure like building a modernized rail system that connects the whole country and include Boeing in that.  I'm sure with some retooling, they could manufacture trains instead of bombers.  

                    And they'll stop building bombers as soon as we stop electing people who tell them to.

                    "The meek shall inherit nothing" - F. Zappa

                    by cometman on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:50:43 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I think this is a good time (8+ / 0-)

                      to give thanks for Sen. Patty Murray, who, in addition to leading the charge to take care of veterans, voted against the interests of Boeing by voting NO on the authorization for war.

                      •  Props to Patty BUT (4+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        miasmo, sara seattle, goshzilla, drizek

                        she has been OUTRAGED by Boeing losing the deal. I wish she showed a fraction of that outrage about the never ending war. Stopping the war would do more to help the troops than trying to get them care after their lives are shattered. The first time I heard the stupid meme that defunding the war would hurt the troops was out of Murray's mouth. She is doing her part for the MIC. The 60 MInutes piece starring Murray, Inslee, and Baird about the boat the Coast Guard refused to take possession of. But, hey, local jobs!

                    •  Boeing in WA state (0+ / 0-)

                      I think it's been said that every Boeing job in Washington creates 5 other jobs.  That's big.  And I agree, it's the system that needs to be changed.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a company that makes excellent products that pays workers a decent wage... those products do not have to be weapons systems, they can be anything.

                •  Moving the headquarters (0+ / 0-)

                  lost Washington State how many jobs??

                  What the heck is going on here on this tread - could we at least have some common sense here.

                  "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                  by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:51:14 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Pretty Much (6+ / 0-)

                As with all Airbus units, the main parts will be assembled in Europe (on a geographical basis relating to which countries own Airbus Industrie and to what degree).

                They're they shipped to Toulouse, for the first stage of bringing them together. After that they go to central Germany, where they're prepped for their trip across the pond. They they come to the US, for final assembly in Alabama - at which point the production engines are mounted, and the majority of the refuelling hardware is connected and installed.

                So yes, a bunch of it is being built in Europe - but the military bits and the final assembly is all done in the US. In short, it comes into the US as a passenger airline with an empty cabin, and is there turned into a tanker.

                AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

                by Scipio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:23:42 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yes and Alabama needs the jobs (5+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                raatz, miasmo, RogueStage, Dauphin, goshzilla

                desperately.  

                From what I read Boeing lost fair and square.

                Still I hurt for the families losing jobs in Seattle and I'm sorry to see jobs leaving our shores.

                Eisenhower's Farewell Address (1961)

                In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

                We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

                The age of journalism as the fourth estate has passed. We blog to survive.

                by enough on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:23:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  no, airframes are being built in Europe (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sara seattle, Lefty Coaster

                they are then flown to Alabama to be modified as tankers.  That's if they actually get around to doing that, the are going to start out doing all the work in Europe.

              •  Give me a break (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Lefty Coaster

                An America job lost is - a job going to France,

                "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:47:18 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Think about it (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                miasmo, mamabigdog, jedennis, goshzilla

                Saturn and Airbus pick "right to work" states, import all the parts, and have the non-union employees put the machines together. They say they are "American-made."

                Even Ford in Detroit imports every part they can from Canada (NAFTA-duh!) across the river.

                This is a scam to destroy unions in the United States.

              •  That's right. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dauphin

                Thousands of jobs here along the Gulf Coast. The Airbus jet is better. End of story.

                If we continue to accumulate only power and not wisdom, we will surely destroy ourselves. -Carl Sagan

                by LightningMan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:44:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Um... (0+ / 0-)

                Why should I care if the profits go to American billionaires or European billionaires?

                I have no great love for Boeing as they are a major player in the military-industrial/war profiteering complex.  However maybe you should care where the profits go, because if they go to Boeing, a lot of skilled American workers get paid very good wages and salaries. These are some of the last really good manufacturing jobs that we still have in this country.

              •  the groundbreaking of the plant will be in June (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dauphin

                http://blog.al.com/...

                We shouldn't just support a company because it's American. We need to challenge our companies to provide the best and most efficient services in the world. That is how we will remain global leaders in the next century.

            •  In fact, it's a piece of jingoistic crap (11+ / 0-)

              Would almost think a Republican wrote it. Most of the assembly of the Airbus planes will actually be done in Alabama, which last time I looked is not in Europe.

              Get your facts straight, Governor! Just because you're a Democrat doesn't mean we don't hold you to the same standard as everybody else.

              Americans now spend a higher percentage of their income on basics like food and energy than at any time since recordkeeping started in the 1960s.

              by Calouste on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:50:16 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  the labor is cheaper (7+ / 0-)

                in Alabama..they are non-union jobs as I understand it. And where will the profits go? Not to the US.

                ..."For beauty," I replied. "And I for truth,-the two are one; We brethren are"... E. Dickinson

                by peagreen on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:03:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, but all engineering is in Europe. (6+ / 0-)

                So let's increase lower-skilled jobs at the expense of higher-skilled jobs. So much for the "more educated workforce via training" bullshit.

                Smile, you have a Republican by the neck.
                --graffiti above urinal

                by dallasdave on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:15:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Are you friggin' kidding me? What about the (8+ / 0-)

                governor's message sounds republican to you? She's pointing us to a very important issue.

                Do the names Susan Nelson, John Green, and Tom Loeffler ring a bell? They should. They are and were advisors to McCain. SO? You say. Well, they are also lobbyists for EADS (parent company to Airbus). SO, the government was about to award the contract to Boeing, McCain steps in and makes sure the deal goes to Airbus, and whose advisors get a big check from Airbus?

                Not to mention that she's pointing out the fact that Mr. Campaign Finance Reform is using Washington as an ATM for a $33,100 a plate fundraiser. So much for getting big money out of politics eh John?

                Before you go and attack Christine Gregoire maybe you should do some research. Maybe you would learn that she is a strong Democratic governor running against a Bush knucklehead. Whether you like it or not, Boeing employs a lot of hardworking Washingtonians and plays a major role in local politics here. I'm not saying Boeing is all sweet roses, but look into this deal a little deeper. McCain's loobyist ties have stunk it up just like they have in the past and this is what we should be focusing on right now. McCain is a corporate puppet just like Bush. Period. Whether or not you prefer Airbus or Boeing, whether or not you could care less about either, and even ignoring the reality that American jobs ARE lost, the fact that McCain's dirty hands are all over this deal is what is important to consider.

                Associating Christine Gregoire to republicans is like associating Rush Limbaugh to sanity. Give me a break.

                •  Not mentioning all the relevant facts (0+ / 0-)

                  Or even plain lying about them (Not all jobs go to Europe). That is what make the message sound Republican.

                  The same message wouldn't have lost anything of its value by stating the proper facts about what happened to the jobs. Of course the governor is the governor of Washington and as such she should defend jobs in Washington state. But she can do that without misstating where those jobs go.

                  I completely agree with you that McCain's dirty hands are all over the place, but we can get the same point across while stating the facts properly and correctly.

                  Americans now spend a higher percentage of their income on basics like food and energy than at any time since recordkeeping started in the 1960s.

                  by Calouste on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:51:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes how about starting with you (0+ / 0-)

                    stating the facts correctly -- if facts are so important to you.

                    wouldn't that have been a good place to start instead of the GOP claptrap.

                    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                    by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:57:58 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Which facts did I state incorrectly? nt (0+ / 0-)

                      Americans now spend a higher percentage of their income on basics like food and energy than at any time since recordkeeping started in the 1960s.

                      by Calouste on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:06:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  How about the facts about McCain's involvement (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mamabigdog

                        in this deal for Airbus -- he has certainly gotten his money's worth.

                        http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/...

                        There were two disputes about the Pentagon’s request for proposals that McCain got involved in to the benefit of Northrop-Airbus. First, in September and December 2006, just before the Pentagon was to release its RFP, McCain wrote to top Pentagon officials, asking them to eliminate language in the RFP forcing consideration of how penalties due to a WTO dispute over subsidies might affect the tanker’s production cost. That provision, championed by Boeing booster Norman Dicks (D-WA), would have hurt Northrop-Airbus more than Boeing. McCain got his wish.

                        Second, in the December letter, McCain asked the Pentagon to give the proposals credit for having more cargo space, instead of equal points for having in excess of a certain amount of space. Meanwhile, the Northrop-Airbus team, which was proposing a bigger aircraft, threatened to withdraw their bid if the Air Force did not change its criteria on this issue. This double whammy put the Air Force up a creek. If Northrop and Airbus weren’t bluffing, leaving the criteria be would hand the deal to Boeing, and enrage McCain, who could then accuse the Air Force in public hearings of giving Boeing another sweetheart deal. The Air Force complied, giving another advantage to Northrop-Airbus.

                        It therefore appears that John McCain was necessary to EADS getting this deal, even as he was taking in their campaign contributions and lobbyists. That doesn’t mean there’s anything nefarious here. McCain had good reason to help block the deal in the first round. The changes he asked for in the second round were arguably wise. The subsidy issue could actually be seen as an ace in the hole for Boeing that should not have been there in the first place. Plus $14,000 is cheap if he were going to sell out.

                        But it sure doesn’t look good. Who was it that said that "questions of honor are raised as much by appearances as by reality in politics"?

                        "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                        by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:27:10 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Facts I didn't dispute at all (0+ / 0-)

                          I completely agree with you that McCain's dirty hands are all over the place

                          see above.

                          I was just pointing out that not all jobs go to Europe as the Governor suggests.

                          Americans now spend a higher percentage of their income on basics like food and energy than at any time since recordkeeping started in the 1960s.

                          by Calouste on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:50:49 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

              •  Oh Wow (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dauphin, Calouste, koszul

                I hadn't even realized that a Governor had written this crap until you mentioned it. It just makes it that much worse.

                That line about being surrounded by the worlds finest airplanes and workers made me puke.

                I don't mind when politicians pander to their constituents, but don't bring that shit in here. We don't buy it. They aren't better than their European counterparts just because they are American.

                •  Yep, sad isn't it? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  miasmo, Dauphin

                  Just blindly stating that your products are the best because they are build in America by Americans, well we know where that got Detroit.

                  Americans now spend a higher percentage of their income on basics like food and energy than at any time since recordkeeping started in the 1960s.

                  by Calouste on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:04:01 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  The Gov. is correct (2+ / 1-)
                Recommended by:
                georgiacmt, cactusflinthead
                Hidden by:
                Calouste

                you are not....

                "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:54:41 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  TR'ed for "follow the leader" mindset (0+ / 0-)

                  You can at least try to bring up a reason why.

                  Americans now spend a higher percentage of their income on basics like food and energy than at any time since recordkeeping started in the 1960s.

                  by Calouste on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:53:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Show me where the Govenor lied (0+ / 0-)

                  Or even plain lying about them (Not all jobs go to Europe). That is what make the message sound Republican.

                  This is what the Govenor wrote

                  Recently, the Bush Administration chose a European company – not Boeing – for a new $40 billion contract to build tankers for our military. This contract would have created 44,000 jobs in communities all across America, including 9,000 in my state of Washington.

                  So are you lying by not agreeing that Washington State is losing 9000 jobs??

                  "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

                  by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:25:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Well, it's clear the governor was lying when she (0+ / 0-)

                    wrote about "44,000 of our jobs and $40 billion of our tax dollars going overseas" (which is what Calouste referred to),  since,  even with NG and EADS getting the contract,  most of the work will be done here.

                    Now,  were you deliberately trying to deceive when you quoted a completely different part of her diary as a "refutation"?  

                    I do hope you appreciate the irony of your "tough cookie" Governor taking up the cause of a company that,  arguably,  shouldn't have been allowed to bid at all on this contract after getting caught trying to defraud the taxpayers on the previous tanker deal.  Or were you taking pride in her being a "tough cookine" in the style of an Edward G. Robinson character?

            •  Don't be so hard on the governor. I expect (9+ / 0-)

              she needs to say that (Everybody knows that American workers build the best planes in the world) in order not to be considered unpatriotic. And it is her job to try and keep the jobs in her state.

              However, this unquestioned superiority gets one into problems when it no longer happens to be valid, as you pointed out. Then it actually gets into the way of improving performance so as to hopefully regain the status of 'Worlds finest'.

              •  Bull (0+ / 0-)

                When she says that it makes her look out of touch and borderline xenophobic.

                A governors job is not to lobby for federal handouts to defense contractors. It also isn't to create jobs. It is, as the name implies, to govern.

                I'm an enthusiastic Obama supporter, but sometimes Ron Paul just seems real attractive. Government spending is just getting out of control. I love social programs, but please stop lining the pockets of contractors with our tax dollars( or chinese debt dollars).

                I think Obama made a great point about the flag pins. Enough with the phony patriotism. How about supporting policies that actually make the country stronger?

            •  I think you are being a bit harsh on Boeing (15+ / 0-)

              Yes, I worked there for over 30 years, and Yes, I had serious concerns about Boeing management's ethics while I worked there, particularly after the so-called "merger" with McDonnell-Douglas, but it's not just Boeing, it's the entire military-industrial complex and attitudes of our whole country under the rule of King George.
              Boeing management has taken the steps needed to solve their ethical issues, although perhaps not their arrogance issues. However, that should not penalize the workers throughout the country who will not have jobs because most of the jobs will be in Europe.  A few thousand jobs in Mobile don't offset the total number that will be off-shored.
              Until we can transfer our economy away from military-industrial towards green-industrial, and eliminate the need for all those tankers, we need to keep our jobs on-shore.

              "A country that hides something is a country that is afraid of getting caught. . . ."--GW Bush April 13, 2004

              by Earwicker23 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:07:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  all that notwithstanding (6+ / 0-)

              as a Washingtonian she beats this guy by a long shot. The repubs wanted him pretty bad. One of those federal attys that the Bushies fired was the one here that said he couldn't find election fraud in that extremely close gubenatorial election which Gregiore won. She showed a lot of class and I think courage!  

              ..."For beauty," I replied. "And I for truth,-the two are one; We brethren are"... E. Dickinson

              by peagreen on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:14:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Boeing: Deliver a better product... (9+ / 0-)

              I agree, the problem in this case is that Boeing didn't deliver a good product when compared to the A330-based product delivered by Airbus/EADS. Why are they crying over the loss when they really didn't deserve to win in the first place.

              The US Government has no problem with or institutional bias against giving Boeing contracts.

              And I say this as an aviation enthusiast who is very supportive of Boeing. I'm even trying to figure out if I can manage to get up to Seattle to watch the 787 first flight. I'm a huge aviation nerd.

              It just happens that Airbus/EADS delivered the superior product, and as an American taxpayer, I want my money being spent in the most efficient way possible. I'm not opposed to paying the taxes I am required to pay, and after seeing bridges collapse in my own country I wonder if they shouldn't be higher, but I don't want the money being handed out to companies who aren't going to be making the best use of it in delivering a poor product.

            •  First of all... (5+ / 0-)

              no one who was involved in that scandal is still at Boeing. They were all publicly humiliated and run out of town on a rail (figuratively of course). I guess we could just go on punishing Boeing for the rest of eternity for something that NONE of the current management was even present for... I've heard of holding grudges, but this is ridiculous.

              Second, it's true that jobs will be created in Alabama for the Airbus contract. But where will the profits be going? To a European company, that's where. With our economy in shambles, I can't believe someone would really advocate sending business overseas that could be done better and cheaper here in the U.S. And if that's not bad enough, the customer is the U.S. Government!

              That's not just a tragedy, it's a travesty.

              I never thought I'd miss Nixon...

              by DixieDishrag on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:38:23 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The Prime Contractor, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                anthonyLA, Dauphin

                Northrop Grumman is an American Company, and EADS North America is based in...North America. Get both sides of the story.

              •  Your economics is based upon the MIC (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                miasmo, Bluesman48

                As long as we continue to equate a strong economy, jobs, and profits with military spending we will never progress.  

                You are basically arguing that American Jobs and American Profits should be the beneficiaries of America's Defense budget.

                That is fine, that is your right, but you are basically arguing on behalf of the entire Military Infrastructure Complex against which President Eisenhower warned the nation half a century ago.

                I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

                by VeganMilitia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:47:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Wooeee! Brung us to the woodshed! (0+ / 0-)

              Wow, Cuzzin! You sure taught us spoiled rotten, rich Washingtonians a thang or two! My land, there we wuz just workin on them planes, all us 'mericans and Unioneers to boot, and you gonna teach us a lesson by givin' our jobs to furriners! Why, shore, them big boys upstairs got our permission fore they attempted to scam the gummint, danged if they din't. So you right to take our jobs 'way from us! Just one thang, we like yer slogan at the bottom, but it 'ccurs to us that at least one liberal 'pears to be dick!

              I am not afraid of the pen, or the scaffold, or the sword. I will tell the truth wherever I please.

              by mundog50 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:59:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  ??? (0+ / 0-)

                Care to explain what your faux hillbilly talk has to do with my comment? And where did I say or imply anything about "spoiled rotten, rich Washingtonians"?

                This country spends as much on weapons as the rest of the world combined. That's money that could be spent on infrastructure, clean energy, schools, hospitals, etc. all of which would create jobs and improve people's lives, unlike spending on expensive weapon systems that enable our heinous and immoral imperialism. But let's just stay on this destructive and wasteful path just to keep those specific jobs in your specific state. (And by the way, you don't think people in Mobile want those jobs just as badly as you? Why are you entitled to them?)

                I realize that good paying defense jobs are a big deal for the people who work in them. But I cannot work up any sympathy for big defense contractors who earn billions by lobbying Congress to spend our money on high-tech weapons instead of schools, infrastructure, etc.

                miasmo.com If you're not a liberal, you're a dick.

                by miasmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:43:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Good Americans have a stake in those jobs (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  miasmo, mamabigdog

                  What I was trying to say with some humor, maybe not totally successfully,was this. Lots of people in Washington state depend on those jobs. They are good, union jobs that have good benefits in a state that is not "right to work." It is not those good people's fault that their employer tried to pull a fast one on the government. They depend on those jobs, as do the schools and infrastructure that their taxes support. It is not their fault that rich people make more money on the planes they build than they do. And since the planes will be built, no matter how you and I feel the money could be better spent, I would prefer they be built in a place that the workers at least get a small piece of the pie, not a state where unions are actively and illegally kept out of the workplace.

                  And your cheap shot at american made products and Governor Gregoire was just plain mean. Boeing makes a great plane. France makes great stuff too and they are rightfully proud of it. It is not a sin to be proud of the product you turn out. Chris Gregoire is one of the hardest working Governors I have seen, and while some may think it is pimping for big companies to promote american jobs, the bottom line is that they are our jobs.

                  I am not afraid of the pen, or the scaffold, or the sword. I will tell the truth wherever I please.

                  by mundog50 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:38:49 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "cheap shot" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Dauphin

                    You make  some good points. I disagree about the "cheap shot." The kind of jingoistic denial in her statement is not helpful. Stupid statements make people stupider. If Americans continue to cling to this myth of American exceptionalism, we will continue to fall behind countries that spend more on education and infrastructure and less on defense.

                    I am not disputing that Gregoire is a good governor. It is unfortunate that politicians in this country are required to parrot patriotic inanities or be branded non-flagpin-wearing terrorist loving liberal elites who think they're better than the beer drinking, church-going bowlers who love America and apple pie and don't trust people who eat arugula. But she came onto a turf where we all get to have an equal say, and I love to call out bullshit here, because nobody listens to me when I yell at the TV.

                    miasmo.com If you're not a liberal, you're a dick.

                    by miasmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:01:54 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Gregoire is my governor, and she's (4+ / 0-)

              an  excellent one. Promoting local industries is part of her job, and it's perfectly natural for her to include it in this diary.

              And she's right: while some jobs will go to Alabama, most of the jobs wil be created in Europe. That's nothing to be proud about.

              In a few years China will be building planes, too, and they'll be cheaper than Boeing's or Airbus's. Is that sufficient reason to continue outsourcing our defense systems?

              "I cherished my hate like a badge of moral superiority." - Mark Rudd

              by Bob Love on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:48:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Not to mention inaccurate (0+ / 0-)

              The Bush administration did not make this decision at all.  Rather, the Air Force selected Northrop Grumman (an American company which partnered with a French company for this contract) over Boeing in a competitive bid situation.  Northrop offered the Air Force a better product at a better price.  Wouldn't we have been pissed if the Air Force chose to purchase an inferior product at a higher price (i.e., that offered by Boeing).  

            •  Boeing is 150,000 Americans not one crooked man (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sara seattle

              The gentlemen involved in the scandal you are referring to went to jail.  How long do the other 149,999 people who found out about the graft from the evening news need to suffer for it?  

              44,000 jobs to Europe because one guy who doesn't work there any more and one woman who doesn't work for the government anymore were greedy and went to jail for it.  

              We're aren't talking about billionaires.  We are talking about 44,000 American engineers, engineering support and manufacturing personnel out of work so that your tax dollars can go to a state-supported European aerospace company.  

              "I propose now closing up by requesting you play a certain piece of music or a tune. I thought 'Dixie' one of the best tunes I ever heard." -President Lincoln

              by Rgandhi3k on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:30:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Boeing is part of the dangerous (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VeganMilitia

                military-industrial complex. They make their money by corrupting our democracy by lobbying the government to spend money on unnecessary weapons instead of stuff that would improve living standards for all of us, not just the lucky few riding the military pork gravy train.

                miasmo.com If you're not a liberal, you're a dick.

                by miasmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:49:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Boeing is evil, EADS is good? (0+ / 0-)

                  Boeing is part of the dangerous military-industrial complex. They make their money by corrupting our democracy by lobbying the government to spend money on unnecessary weapons instead of stuff that would improve living standards for all of us, not just the lucky few riding the military pork gravy train.

                  And EADS (Airbus/Northrup-Grumman) is what... chopped liver?

                  You write as if the competition is a humanitarian organization that makes its money by feeding the hungry and healing the sick.

                  Bottom line is, BOTH corporations are part of the "dangerous military-industrial complex. BOTH corporations "make their money by lobbying the government to spend money on unnecessary weapons instead of stuff that would improve living standards for all of us, not just the lucky few riding the military pork gravy."

                  So what's the difference? The only difference is where the jobs and the profit end up. Hmmm, America or France? France or America? Which would benefit our country more? Hmmm... That's a hard question? C'mon.

                  I never thought I'd miss Nixon...

                  by DixieDishrag on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:13:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Yes, they both suck. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    OleHippieChick

                    Ever hear the expression, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? The point is that the whole system sucks, and I'm not going to defend it because it produces jobs. There are plenty of enterprises that create jobs that are harmful overall. Step back from the trees of which heinous corporation gets the contract and look at the forest of a shitty system that hurts our country regardless of where these particular jobs go.

                    miasmo.com If you're not a liberal, you're a dick.

                    by miasmo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:30:11 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Know what? (0+ / 0-)

                      Think of something that pays engineers better than airplanes and make it profitable and Boeing is doomed.  

                      Or, if you prefer, you can keep spouting over-simplified, coffee-house, pablum.

                      "I propose now closing up by requesting you play a certain piece of music or a tune. I thought 'Dixie' one of the best tunes I ever heard." -President Lincoln

                      by Rgandhi3k on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:25:36 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  everyone (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              miasmo, Dauphin

              knows that detroit builds the best cars!!

      •  Happy Birthday, McBush! (6+ / 0-)

         What hurricane???

        "We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution

        by elwior on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:56:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  the lady in green (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JML9999, kyril

        is that Janet Napolitano? cause should she become Obama's running mate, it'd be really hard to continue using this photo with the background mentioned in the other diary on the rec list.

      •  Posting that picture is a great way to build some (0+ / 0-)

        mojo:)

    •  McCain is same old (6+ / 0-)

      McCain says one thing and does exactly opposite. He does not care about Boeing loosing the contract. What he cares about is his corporate buddies and lobbyists getting what they want.

      McCain, the Double Talk Exprress, offers the same old.

      We need real progressives in every elected office in this country.

      •  Phil Gramm (7+ / 0-)

        McCain has been staging Phil Gramm at many of his political events to bolster his poor economic resume'. While it is true that Phil Gramm is much more experienced than McCain in this area, many of his policies have been nothing short of complete disasters.

        For one, he authored and passed The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act which deregulated the financial industries leading to highly leveraged hedge funds and the current mortgage crisis.

        Gramm also had deep involvement in the Enron fiasco. His wife, Wendy, sat on the Board, received a seven figure salary, and was involved it what appears to be insider selling before the collapse. For their part, Phil & Wendy Gramm helped pass legislation exempting Enron's energy trading unit from public oversight.  Enron was also Gramm's biggest donor back then.

    •  Is this guy a GREAT governor or what? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rogneid, kyril

      "We the People of the United States..." -U.S.Constitution

      by elwior on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:00:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "Everybody knows that American workers build"... (6+ / 0-)

        ..."the best planes in the world." Wow, really? Just the best, or the bestest of the best?

        You are a democrat, so I will cut you some slack, but this kind of brainless drivel is not usually tolerated on daily kos.

        Come see TV from the reality-based community at RealityBasedTV.com

        by MarkInSanFran on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:52:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't forget that as Gov (4+ / 0-)

          her first job is to be the top cheerleader for her state. You can't do economic development while saying ' yeah, our stuff's pretty good, at least average." Superlatives come with the territory.

        •  Get a clue. (3+ / 0-)

          Wow, really? Just the best, or the bestest of the best?

          You are a democrat, so I will cut you some slack, but this kind of brainless drivel is not usually tolerated on daily kos.

          And neither is brainless naivete. As a governor from the state that houses most of Boeing's workers, what would you have her say Markus? Something like, "Americans build so-so planes..." or how about, "American planes are okay, but European planes are the bestest..."Or how about this one, "Americans, they sometimes build good planes, sometimes, not so much."

          Grow up buddy. And think. And maybe show a little more respect while you're at it.

          •  How About... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden, Positronicus

            "As Governor of Washington State, I certainly appreciate the contributions Boeing has made to our state's economy over the last many decades.

            However, as an enlightened peace-loving citizen of the world, and governor of a beautiful state full of myriads of more honorable economic opportunities, I recognize that it is time for Washington State to move beyond its dependence upon military spending.

            Therefore, I announce today that I will heretofore stop pimping for the Boeing Company."

            Signed,

            - the Gov

            I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

            by VeganMilitia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:54:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Would she deliver this during her (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sara seattle, wa ma

              concession speech to Dino Rossi?

              •  She should try and articulate (0+ / 0-)

                to the voters why relying on a war to be able to put food on the table is a Bad Thing.

                If they can't figure that out, they deserve the government they get. Either way, I don't want my tax dollars going to more military contracts.

                If she wants to create good union jobs and contract them off to Boeing, she can order a fleet of 747s to be used by the state government, paid for by a 3% increase in the state sales tax. We'll see what the voters think of Dino then.

            •  Washington is also home to (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              neroden

              ... it is time for Washington State to move beyond its dependence upon military spending.

              Washington is also home to a gawd awful nuclear weapons complex at Hanford. The principle purpose of Hanford seems to be turning dollars into nuclear waste and flushing it down the river. How the hell can we ever get rid of these places?

              Molly Ivins wanted WHO for President?

              by Positronicus on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:13:42 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Correction: (0+ / 0-)

              If she made most of the speech you just described, she could keep pimping for Boeing in civilian aircraft.  :-)

              After all, aircraft aren't going to go away entirely (although their terrible carbon profile means that aircraft use must be DRASTICALLY reduced).

              -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

              by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:36:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  It happens to be true (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden

          You are a democrat, so I will cut you some slack, but you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the civilian aircraft industry, and these tankers are based on civilian airframes.

          "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

          by Lefty Coaster on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:15:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Boeing is working hard to reverse this decision. (8+ / 0-)

        While the EADS planes are put together in Mobile, they are built in Europe and the major assemblies shipped to Mobile for final assembly.  Most of the $$$ goes to Europe. About the only U.S. content in their plane is the refueling boom.

        Of course, Boeing is doing much the same thing with the 787 (final assembly in Everett, major assemblies built overseas for the most part).

        But Boeing has an established track record with tankers, and their response as I understand it was in line with what the USAF requested.  Special considerations seem to have been taken to keep EADS in the bidding, and in the award.

        Even the USAF wouldn't say EADS at the award.  All they would say was Northrup to mask that this is mostly a foreign contract award.

        HAD ENOUGH?

        Tis a fearful thing to love that what death may touch or time may change.

        by walkingdeer on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:11:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for posting (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sara seattle

        and I'm sorry the Boeing bid didn't go better.
         Some other time we can discuss how much money goes to US workers in that Airbus bid, and how much Boeing would have spent on US workers. Never the less, it's an obviously terrible outcome for the region.
          McCain should be treated appropriately for this and all the other things he has supported that are going to hurt us.

      •  Thank you, Governor (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sara seattle, Kitsap River, wa ma

        for taking the time to communicate with us directly. Don't expect to not have some back and forth, but it is all part of the process. I don't know if I was prouder of you as AG or now, but I will be following your career with keen interest.

    •  Bombers or Schools? Carriers or Hospitals? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      luku, neroden, Rogneid, OleHippieChick

      You mention better places you could spend the $30K per plate fund raiser money but spending 40 billion of my money on 100% completely useless GI Joe fly-boy action adventure toys just to prop up a local economy is OK?

      I can't possibly be the only one who thinks this is where our country is screwed!  We've let the military industrial complex build up entire local economies on war toys (I've got Raytheon and GE Aircraft Engines here in MA).  Local politicians will vote for any project regardless of how useless and fiscally wasteful it is as long as it produces jobs.  It's pathetic that the best thing we can come up with to produce jobs is socially worthless military junk.

      The 'Dick' Cheny couldn't even shit-can the V-22 project, tactically useless and lethally dangerous for our soldiers.  See: WONDER WEAPON OR WIDOW MAKER?

      It feeds the military-industrial-congressional
      feedback loop of campaign donations, production orders, and jobs created in 276 different congressional districts.

      •  Meanwhile our bridges collapse (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OleHippieChick

        And politicans claim they don't have enough "money" to give us trains which run on time.

        Wish I could rec 100 times.  There is a choice between "guns and butter".  The US has chosen "guns" so far, to the point where our military budget is literally larger than the sum total of the military budgets of every other country in the world.

        Countries which choose "butter" (yeah, yeah, "corn" or "bread" might be better analogies) are a hell of a lot nicer to live in.

        -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

        by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:38:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Jobs will be created (0+ / 0-)

      by the thousands on Mobile, Alabama with EADS. Boeing has a couple TRILLION in back orders, they're not hurting.

      The Airbus jet is better. So there.

      If we continue to accumulate only power and not wisdom, we will surely destroy ourselves. -Carl Sagan

      by LightningMan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:42:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Welcome Governor (37+ / 0-)

    The story about Senator McCain being surrounded by lobbyists, and doing their bidding, is the biggest scandal on the so-called Straight Talk Express.  The Boeing saga is just one chapter in a book of how Senator McCain isn't really the maverick he says he is.

    Editor of the Harvard Law Review vs. Mr. 894 out of 899. How has having a stupid President worked out the last eight years?

    by Tod on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:34:30 AM PDT

    •  Happy to have you on DailyKos... (12+ / 0-)

      Thanks for stopping by. We in Washington are working hard to keep you in Olympia and send Darcy Burner to our nation's Capitol. As well, we need to get John Ladenburg and Peter Goldmark to Olympia.

      Reichert, Rossi, McKenna, and Sutherland must be defeated!

    •  Let's not kid ourselves here (7+ / 0-)

      The original contract with Boeing for these tankers was a deal rife with corruption. The military and Boeing were in bed with each other (I believe literally as well...), and the whistle was rightfully blown putting a stop to the deal.

      Now, the offenders have been dealt with and, as someone who has personal interest in Boeing doing well, it is a shame that they didn't get the contract when it was opened to competition.

      But let's not kid ourselves that Boeing had clean hands in this, particularly their old management. I can understand being ticked because McCain screwed over the hometown, but it wasn't completely unjustified.

      •  I get your point (0+ / 0-)

        and while corruption on all levels needs to be called out and rooted, do you really think that McCain and the rest of the Repubs did not offer the contract to Boeing due to past issues like you describe?

        I think not.  I am fairly certain, if history is any indicator, that the contracts were offered to an overseas company becuase there was something in it for the Repubs and their associates.  Let's not pretend that McCain et al were "punishing" Boeing for past wrongs.  If that was the case, you could still keep the contracts in the US by publicly penalizing Boeing x amount of dollars and if Boeing turns down the contract becuase of those penalties, then it goes to the best offer (Airbus).

        •  I don't think it is that simple (0+ / 0-)

          From what I remember hearing about this, there was more to it than just that. The Airbus and Boeing planes had a number of important differences in specifications as well, and I believe the Airbus plane was closer in spec to what the military really wanted. I heard some other rumors about problems, but I never substantiated those so I won't get into them.

          Now, I'm not privy to all of the internal politics that led to the final decision, but there is more to this than "us good, them bad."

          •  The Air Force spec was changed during bidding n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sara seattle

            Comments Signature: This will get attached to your comments.

            by Gravedugger on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:46:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  "Changed" (0+ / 0-)

              Has a negative connotation, in this case - I think a better word is "fixed." The initial spec was for a plane that was pretty much identical (in capability) to the current plane, but more modern. While this is fine, it doesn't really take into account that technology has developed since the last generation of tankers was designed.

              At Airbus' demanding, the USAF changed the contract to focus on delivering a better end-to-end solution to the refuelling problem (allowing a change of doctrine, and specifying results as opposed to methods), under which their entry was much better.

              AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

              by Scipio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:28:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  A Total Waste of Taxpayer Money Anyways (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OleHippieChick

        Since Reagan, king of the GI Joe action adventure toy, this kind of worthless crap has been put on my children's and grand children's credit cards anyways.  Anyone advocating this kind of a project for nothing more than local jobs is acting fiscally irresponsible.

        The criticism should be with regard to our country spending the wealth of an entire generation on war toys, not who gets the pork from them.  This money could help future generations if put towards education, hospitals, MRI machines, infrastructure, but it's effectively squandered on equipment for military aggression.  How about building a HUGE solar farm in the Nevada desert?  Boeing could pick up some booty and at a return of investment of 25 cents on the dollar, it would be infinitely better than the total loss spent on war machines.

  •  Here's more on McCain, EADS, Boeing (32+ / 0-)

    and of course, campaign contributions.

    McCain, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, played a crucial role in blocking the deal to build air tankers from going to U.S.-based Boeing, instead paving the path for EADS to score the loot. He framed his decision as an example of political integrity; Boeing has previously been exposed of contract abuse. But a review of campaign finance donations and lobbying records suggests that money and personal lobbying may have also been in play.

    link

    "He's patriotic in sincere ways, and not in photo-op ways." - jenontheshore

    by Ivey476 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:35:50 AM PDT

  •  post a comment entitled (12+ / 0-)

    "tip jar" - so we can show our appreciation!

    "So long as we have enough people in this country willing to fight for their rights, we'll be called a democracy." -Roger Baldwin

    by voila on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:36:14 AM PDT

  •  Thank you for posting this! (8+ / 0-)

    Your input is very important and a great reminder of what we as progressive and Democrats need to keep in our sights as the primary slogs on and the general election approaches.

    -6.25 -5.33 After the last seven years, hell yes I'm bitter

    by dansk47 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:37:00 AM PDT

  •  If we are going to have (11+ / 0-)

    a military budget bloated beyond all reason, the least we can do is spend it here.  And I realize the tankers are not that sensitive as military hardware goes, but other items being sourced overseas are.  What's the point of billion dollar toys if you can't get the spare parts and potential enemies have the blueprints?

    Thanks for the diary and the reminder that McCain will sell us out (war hero notwithstanding) as fast as Bushco.

    •  Spending the $ at home is good for another reason (9+ / 0-)

      Right now, with the dollar tanking thanks to the financial geniuses running the country, those European purchases are getting more expensive every day.  It actually offers a way out of this contract for any legislator who is looking for an excuse, but it would mean pointing out the falling dollar and I don't think McCain is agile enough to walk that line.

      Now, go spread some peace, love and understanding. Use force if necessary. - Phil N DeBlanc

      by lineatus on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:05:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As long as we're spending $40 billion (8+ / 0-)

      ... it's kind of a shame that all we get for it is a bunch of military tankers. Is that really what we need most these days?

      For that kind of money, we could be building a state of the art light rail system and a whole bunch of high-density green housing in the urban areas of WA. As with the military tankers contract, a lot of the money would go to purchase of components and supplies from other areas, so the benefits would be spread around to other states too. Best of all, we wouldn't just get the one-time bang that comes from spending a buck on military hardware-- the economic benefits would continue to roll through the economy for decades to come.

      •  this would probably be a good way (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, Picot verde, kyril

        to spend money, better than parts of the military budget.  It certainly needs to be an issue, but there is no one but Ralph Nader who's talking taking money away from the military budget at this point.

      •  YES! Spend it on USEFUL domestic stuff! (10+ / 0-)

        I'm afraid Governor Gregoire is missing the forest for the trees.  For 40 billion dollars, you could build true high-speed rail from Seattle to San Diego, and have piles of money left over to build a Seattle subway system.

        Seriously, we have got to stop blowing money on military boondoggles.

        -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

        by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:30:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I wish I could recommend you 100 times for this (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          neroden, Picot verde, Larsstephens

          comment.  You are so right.  The Iraq War has just been an excuse for transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to the military industrial complex, who just get stronger and more dictatorial with every new taxpayer package that goes their way.  If only taxpayer money could be spent on something that benefits human beings.

      •  Absolutely true (3+ / 0-)

        but if we're already going to spend the money on military hardware, the least we can do is spend it here and reap what benefit we can.

        During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

        by kyril on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:31:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  don't forget the $3 trillion squandered (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, DBunn, OleHippieChick

        on destroying our military and Iraq when all costs are REALLY added up.  Such an abominable waste of money to commit war crimes when any number of valuable things could have been done in this country

        Orwell meet George the 43rd

        by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:17:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Thank You, I Was Feeling Alone For A While (5+ / 0-)

        I can't believe it took so long for this post to show up.  We're doomed if we think we can perpetually produce trillions of dollars of socially useless military equipment and justify it on the argument that it produces jobs.  The military industrial complex has fostered entire local economies to be propped up on producing this crap and I was part of it back in the Reagan 80's buildup.  It was infatuating in a post-adolescent gear-head kind of way, but in hindsight, totally irresponsible.  Bought a really cool BMW motorcycle making engine parts for Reagan's resurrection of the useless B1 bomber that Carter rightfully killed (along with Avco-Lycoming M1 tank engine parts).  The owners bought new Mercedes' like I go through shoes and had oceanside homes in Nahant and vacation houses in the Bahamas.  I even remember GE building a 'Factory of the Future' in Lynn MA, a shining example of local political pork gone bad, now a deserted building with a parking lot overgrown with weeds.

    •  planes to be built in US (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dauphin

      Although some of the money will end up in Europe (hopefully not a potential enemy!), almost all of the actually plane-building jobs will be "outsourced" to the US. Mississippi, maybe? I don't recall.

      car wreck : car insurance :: climate wreck : climate insurance

      by HarlanNY on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:47:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  to be fair (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HarlanNY, Rogneid

    Aren't the planes going to be made in the US regardless, with just the profits going overseas?

    It's still kinda slimy though.

    ---
    Guns don't kill people. Giant mutant insects kill people.

    by VelvetElvis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:37:55 AM PDT

    •  No, they are not (12+ / 0-)

      All the engineering, fabrication and subassembly will be done in France. Subassembly means, cockpit, fuselage, wings, tail, etc. They will then be shipped to Alabama and that is where final assembly will take place.

      So to be fair, hundreds of American Union jobs will be lost in Washington. Thousands of subcontractor jobs will also be lost. Also, the retrofit for Boeing was to be done their Wichita Kansas facility, which will now be closed down.

      But Northrup Grumman gets to act as Program Managers and the US front company for EADS. And oh by the way, when was the last time France bought an American aircraft product?

      •  I stand corrected (0+ / 0-)

        ---
        Guns don't kill people. Giant mutant insects kill people.

        by VelvetElvis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:34:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Plane parts (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rogneid

        Increasingly parts of a plane are being made in more different places by different groups. I was amazed when hearing about all the corners of the Earth that the 787 parts came from. Integrating that is probably the key reason why it's been delayed a bunch though.

        Airbus is getting caught with their pants down on that one, because Boeing made some good guesses about the market and technology and Airbus is way behind in development of a similar product.

      •  E-3 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dauphin

        The French use both the E-3 Sentry and the E-2C Hawkeye.

        AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

        by Scipio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:33:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yep, this deal was a reward for Sarkozy giving... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OleHippieChick

        Bush the reach-around, and agreeing to not only keep French troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, but send more. It's a stinking rotten deal. Yet another example of the Bush regime selling this nation out, and committing treason.

        ELECT LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES NOW!

        by Hornito on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:48:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dauphin

        Not all the parts of the Airbuses are made in France. The wings are made in Wales for example. I should also clarify that these tankers will be the freight version of the A330 and will be assembled in Alabama.

        With its defeat, Boeing's arch-rival in commercial aircraft Airbus, based in Toulouse, France, will now assemble A330 cargo jets in Alabama. Separately, Northrop Grumman will convert them into tankers using sensitive military technology that will not be shared.

        "The value added on the whole tankers program will be roughly 60 per cent in the United States, including the engines," he said, adding that "roughly 1,300 jobs" would be created locally.

        You should also note that it looks like Airbus will increasingly be using USA assembly plants to outsource jobs from Europe to cheaper paying areas.

        Asked about whether the Mobile plant would serve as an assembly point for models other than the tanker and the cargo A330, Enders would not rule it out.

        "A lot of things are possible," he said

        Hillary Clinton - More baggage than Wal Mart

        by Lib Dem FoP on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:08:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  You mean you're not going to (18+ / 0-)

    squire McCain around your fair state like our Democratic governor just to your south did recently?  Well, I never!

    (Lucky, lucky Washingtonians.  I have a severe case of governor envy.)

  •  I apologize if this is incorrect but I thought I (6+ / 0-)

    had read where Boeing was caught in a bribing scandal and for this reason they lost the contract.

    BTW, Welcome Governor Gregoire and I apologize again if I did not get the entire story behind Boeings loss of the contract.

    "We are a Plutocracy, we ought to face it. We need, desperately, to find new ways to hear independent voices & points of view" Ramsey Clark US AG

    by Mr SeeMore on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:41:28 AM PDT

    •  that was completely separate (10+ / 0-)

      It wasn't Boeing's finest hour, however.

      That was a lease deal, one that Boeing almost certainly could have won without the double-dealing with the Air Force contract officer.  That is, if McCain hadn't made it his personal project to scotch the deal.

      The way to win is not to move to the right wing; the way to win is to move to the right policy. -- Nameless Soldier

      by N in Seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:05:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  One of my favorite Dilbert cartoons (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stagemom, kyril

        involves a salesman talking to the boss who says "What kind of idiot do you think I am?"

        In thought: "That depends on whether I persuade you to take our lease option."

      •  Good thing they lost (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dwcal

        The lease was a huge money loser for the taxpayer, even though the USAF liked it (partly due to short-term cash flow reasons).  McCain was quite right to fight it.

        •  Plus (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dburbach

          Regardless of the merits between leasing and buying, the Air Force overpaid for that deal because their contracting officer, Darlene Druyan, was feeding Boeing inside info, and she was rewarded with a high-paid executive job at Boeing after retiring. Druyan got 9 months in prison, a slap on the wrist considering the billions involved, but it's notable any time an executive gets prison.

    •  Atlas and Delta rockets if I recall (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mediaprisoner, kyril
      •  No, thats the wrong scandal (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        unterhausen, dwcal, OleHippieChick

        There were two seperate ones. The Delta one was in the old McDonnell Douglas company that Boeing bought just in time to have it come to the surface.

        The Tanker deal involved Boeing all the way to Boeing's CFO Michael M. Sears offering Darleen Druyun, civilian chief of Air Force acquisition, a job after she left the Air Force.

    •  Seperate deal, but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dwcal

      I've paid attention to this, I live in Washington, I grew up in the Air Force, where my dad flew on tankers.  So yeah, I've found a passing interest.

      A quick search brings up this:

      The bidding for the contract brought about a scandal in 2004, when two former Boeing officials were sentenced to prison terms after conflicts of interest were uncovered.

      So they are related, the same airplanes were being talked about.  Leasing them was going to be more expensive.

      On the decision to go with the EADS plane: Here's the specs (yeah, wikipedia, but it's easily referenced) On the A330 and the KC-767.

      The most important thing about a tanker is it's ability to offload fuel.  The A330 beat the KC-767 there, and in various other categories.  American workers may build the best planes in the world, but you're going to have to bring more than the "Made in America" argument to prove it.

      Incidentally, the planes will be assembled in Alabama (see the above links).  And the Boeing bird has plants overseas too.  Also, I thought we were still supposed to be upset at Boeing for moving it's headquarters out of Seattle?

  •  Go Gregiore! (11+ / 0-)

    This Washington Voter has been behind you since you were WA-AG. Keep kicking ass! Anyway, I think there could be a law that US military equipment must be designed and manufactured in the US. Who could argue against that? As long as we're going to have an industrial-military complex (which I hope isn't forever), the intellectual property and the money should benefit US citizens, first.

    You can't get away with the crunch, 'cuz the crunch always gives you away

    by dnamj on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:42:08 AM PDT

    •  would be nice (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitsap River, NoMoJoe

      But in practice we don't have the infrastructure to support it.

      The US simply doesn't have the manufacturing capacity or capability to produce, for example, the steel and electronics required by the military.

      It's a sad side effect of moving to a service based economy.  If a conflict arose and we needed a liberty ship-esque program we'd have to buy the steel from China and Korea. Any guesses on the likelihood of those orders being filled if things with China heated up?

      •  That's exactly right. (0+ / 0-)

        As much as I hate to agree with a Buckeye, you've hit the nail on the head.  It's been a long, slow slide, accelerated during the past 7 years perhaps, but going on for a lot longer than that.  The US has outsourced much of its industrial base and is rapidly doing the same with its intellectual base.  Thanks to laws like Sarbanes-Oxley, prompted by the unfettered corporate greed encouraged by the Bush cabal, we're even outsourcing our financial base.

        We used to at least have the agricultural upper hand, but now, thanks to ridiculous farm policies, we're losing that, too.

        I suppose if we ever have to fight, we can pelt the enemy with french fries, assuming that we haven't converted all the potato fields to ethanol production.

        Go Blue.

  •  If it wasn't today... (26+ / 0-)

    If I didn't have to wait here for my dialysis supplies to be delivered today, I'd be over in Seattle protesting McCain's arrival.

    Thank you, Governor Gregoire, for all you do for our state. Thanks to you, we have one of the lowest jobless rates in the country. Thanks to you, most of our housing market is still pretty strong. Thanks to you, most Washington kids have health care, even the poorest kids in the state. Thanks to you and the Democrats in the legislature, we have a balanced budget and a rainy day fund that actually contains money. Thanks to you, our state works for everybody, and does so in a cost-efficient manner.

    I hope you get re-elected in a landslide.

    Want to be a living kidney donor? I need one from someone with a bloodtype of B or O. Drop a note at riverheart.livejournal.com.

    by Kitsap River on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:44:31 AM PDT

    •  How's your dialysis going? (6+ / 0-)

      My husband was on home peritoneal dialyisis for about 6 yrs prior to his kidney transplant. I hope I never have to deal with that equipment and all that fluid again!!

      Lisa

      "No! Ne'er was mingled such a draught In palace, hall or arbor, As freemen brewed and tyrants quaffed, That night in Boston Harbor" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

      by Boston to Salem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:01:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good thing I have an unfinished basement (8+ / 0-)

        and lots of room to store supplies. I hate having it take over my house. But the dialysis itself is going well, especially as I am now on a cycler at night, and I'm on the transplant list. I may actually be able to get one from a living donor instead of waiting that 6 years for a cadaver kidney.

        I had thought of putting the supplies in the barn and I might yet if we ever finish the basement. Good thing I also have a barn. You would be surprised what I have in there. (A trebuchet, for one thing.)

        Want to be a living kidney donor? I need one from someone with a bloodtype of B or O. Drop a note at riverheart.livejournal.com.

        by Kitsap River on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:06:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  LOL! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Kitsap River

          A trebuchet, huh? You can use it to get rid of that cycler when it's no longer needed ;) My husband used a cycler as well and it used to wake me up at least 3x nightly when he would roll over on the tubing.

          BEST OF LUCK to you - I am praying you get a kidney soon!

          Lisa

          "No! Ne'er was mingled such a draught In palace, hall or arbor, As freemen brewed and tyrants quaffed, That night in Boston Harbor" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

          by Boston to Salem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:46:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for this reminder. Here in MO we are (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sja, MisterOpus1, NYBri, Kitsap River, kyril, soms

    especially impacted to the giveaways/contracts awarded to other countries by our gov't at a time when our local tax base is being hammered by job loss in the defense contracting and automobile industries.  This effects schools, property values and any and everything else one can imagine a community depends upon for its maintenance and growth!!!!

    Please keep reminding the supporters of both Clinton and Obama of what's at stake.  We cannot survive another 4 years of craziness!

    "To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." Chinese writer Moh-Tze

    by ILean Left on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:45:21 AM PDT

  •  Welcome and thank you, Governor Gregoire (6+ / 0-)

    My condolences on McCain's betrayal of the citizens of Washington state and the whole country where we yearn for jobs lost by the Bush administration.

    For the Republicans to favor offshore development in 2008 when we have educated skilled workers in need of jobs simply boggles the mind.

    We must win the WH in November and move on to sane economic policies that favor a prosperous country, a level field of competition for our workers and a future for our children. You said it:

    You and I agree that America needs a new direction, and our voices and votes will make it happen.

    Right on!

    HR 676 or California's SB-840 - the only health reform proposals worth my vote.

    by kck on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:51:25 AM PDT

  •  I am surprised that McCain is showing his (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sja, NYBri, Kitsap River, stagemom, kyril, soms

    face in Washington state.

    Shame on him!

    Obama/Strickland '08 or Obama/Kaine '08

    by Drdemocrat on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:56:54 AM PDT

  •  $33,100? (7+ / 0-)

    How is that possible.  I mean they can only give his campaign $2,300.  Does the rest go to the RNC?

    "Unrestricted immigration is a dangerous thing -- look at what happened to the Iroquois." Garrison Keillor

    by SpiderStumbled22 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:56:56 AM PDT

  •  Thanks, Gov! (11+ / 0-)

    I've followed your career since you were at the Department of Ecology. You've spent many years making a difference for the state.  This year, I really appreciated your early strong endorsement of Senator Barack Obama's candidacy.  I look forward ringing lots of doorbells on your behalf this fall.

  •  GOP continues to outsource US jobs. This is (9+ / 0-)

    despicable.  Another reason to vote Democratic in November.  At least Washington State gets that.  Thanks for all your hard work Governor.  You've done a good job of recovering from a very tight election four years ago and I look forward to you serving another four.

    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - FDR. Obama Nation. -6.13 -6.15

    by ecostar on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:58:04 AM PDT

  •  Governor: (8+ / 0-)

    I hope this letter is going out to the media, including the NYT, etc... we need to constantly hit back on the GOP narrative that they are supporting America's working people.

    Thanks very much for posting, and you govern a beautiful state!

    Lisa

    "No! Ne'er was mingled such a draught In palace, hall or arbor, As freemen brewed and tyrants quaffed, That night in Boston Harbor" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

    by Boston to Salem on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:59:22 AM PDT

  •  Governor Gregoire! (9+ / 0-)

    Thanks for posting here.  

    I certainly appreciate that my governor knows how to communicate.  

    "Treat them with humanity. Let them have no reason to complain of our copying the brutal example of the British army."

    by otto on Tue May 13, 2008 at 11:59:41 AM PDT

  •  From this Washington voter, (10+ / 0-)

    thank you for your public statement about McCain's visit to Seattle. I received an invitation to the fundraiser and just had to chuckle.

    Thank you also for your support of Senator Obama, proving that you have your finger on the pulse of your Washington constituency statewide.

  •  Somebody correct me if I am wrong below: (7+ / 0-)

    I somehow remember that Boeing offered tankers based on B767 platform while EADS offered it based on their A330 platform. Now, it happens that in civilian aircraft business A330 is much more successful that B767, because of its economics, range, capacity. So why should US settle for inferior product when a superior product is available?

    Rabindranath Tagore-"Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it."

    by joy sinha on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:05:06 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for posting Governor. And thank you for (9+ / 1-)

    supporting Sen. Obama.

    How can any of us forget what a McCain term would mean for this country?

     title=

    "Beware the terrible simplifiers" Jacob Burckhardt, Historian

    by notquitedelilah on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:06:35 PM PDT

  •  Boeing's Tanker Entry Was Inferior (9+ / 0-)

    I am not one to defend McCain, but we all should understand that in terms of performance, flexibility, and capabilities the Boeing tanker entry was an inferior airplane to what the Airbus consortium put up.

    Don't our troops deserve the best technology we can get them?

    •  From what I understand, Boeing's complaint (7+ / 0-)

      is that the Air Force switched the criteria on them in midstream, which suddenly suited the capabilities of the Airbus once they switched over the 767 jets.

      Lawrence, KS - From ashes to immortality

      by MisterOpus1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:14:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Airbus had similar complaints (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dburbach, bincbom, neroden, anth

        If I remember correctly, Airbus was complaining early in the bidding process that the criteria were so specific that only the version based on the 767 was suitable.

        Do Americans really wish Boeing had a monopoly?  Competition on government contracts is a good thing for the American taxpayer.  Right now the only real competitor in this particular segment of the market is a European firm, so the Pentagon's options are limited.  If Boeing knew it was always going to get the contract simply because it was an American firm, it would be able to charge whatever it wanted and there would be little incentive to pour resources into research and development.

        If Boeing wanted to get the contract, it should have come in with a lower bid and/or developed a more suitable product.

    •  Are you sure? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gravedugger, kyril

      The European plane is a LOT bigger, to be sure. Boeing argues that isn't a good thing. The original req doesn't give credit for exceeding the original specs, which is actually smaller than both entries. It can hold more oil, but its size means it also guzzles more fuel. It has more cargo space, but tankers are rarely used to transport cargo. So, how is the European plane more capable?

      Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

      by FischFry on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:08:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Fuel Useage (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xynz, neroden

        Of the Airbus is only marginally more than than of the Boeing, and it carries a whole lot more of it much farther.

        AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

        by Scipio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:36:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Bogus War Hero John McAirbus (5+ / 0-)

    won't be in any open air parades in Puget Sound, less he like the feel of egg smashing all about him.

  •  This is a pretty big deal in Wichita, Kanas too (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sja, Miss Blue, Kitsap River, kyril

    This story about Boeing getting the shaft has had some pretty decent coverage in the Wichita Eagle (McClatchy) over the past few months as well.  I've heard some counterarguments against it, that the jobs being created down in Alabama for Airbus are supposedly just as comparable to the jobs that would have been created if the Boeing contract would have been taken.  However, unfortunately I haven't followed this as close enough as I should to have a better understanding of everything.

    One thing is certain, however, is that this is a fairly hot button issue in Wichita, the Air Capital city in the heart of my conservative state.  And this story, if it has any legs and merit, could turn on McCain and help Obama, who has the full support of Governor Sebelius and who's mother came from Kansas.

    The possibility is certain there.

    Lawrence, KS - From ashes to immortality

    by MisterOpus1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:09:46 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for the important diary today and (4+ / 0-)

    would you consider asking your Congress members and Senators to sign Rep. John Conyers letter to George Bush telling him that he will begin impeachment proceedings against him if he goes to war with Iran or any country without the authorization of Congress;

    Senator Biden has publicly stated (and he campaigned telling the American people) that he would facilitate impeachment in the Senate if Bush takes US to war with Iran;

    Scott Ritter among many other informed former or current government officials believe firmly that Bush will strike Iran before he leaves office;

    IMO I think he might strike Iran immediately following the Democratic convention and before the GOP Sept. convention so GOP can campaign as the national security party under McCain leadership;

    Get over it. It's so old by now. - Justice Antonin Scalia

    by pollwatch on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:09:51 PM PDT

  •  Arrogance breeds complacency (8+ / 0-)

    Everybody knows that American workers build the best planes in the world.

    Patriotism has many undesirable aspects, and one of them is blind faith in your own people.  The fact is that America does not build the best planes for the best price, nor has the finest workers in the world.  If it did, Boeing would not have lost the contract.

    I was speaking to a guy who has family in the plane construction industry just a few days ago.  He was talking about the loss of plane construction here in the UK to a factory in China.  Planes understandably have very high standards for construction.  Screws can only be off by a few 1000s of a millimetre and anything outside of this is considered an error.  Every inch of a plane is checked after construction.  The typical errors per plane out of a UK factory was around 100.  The first plane out of the Chinese factory had around 500 errors and was rejected.  The second had 50.  The third had no more than 10 and that stayed the level as far as my friend was aware.

    In the UK, and in France and I would suggest the US too, workers live in a comfort zone.  Protected by unions and contracts, they can sometimes (not always, but sometimes) be lazy or inconsistent.  In China it is much different, and I bet heads rolled when the first plane was rejected with so many errors.  Within 3 constructed planes they were down to 10% of the errors of the local plants.

    You can't just say, "We're American.  We're the best!" and expect to be taken seriously.  Reputations are hard earned and quickly lost, and everything respectable I read about the Boeing deal was that they did not deserve it due to poor standards and high prices.

    •  Point taken (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gravedugger, kyril

      however, if you saw what efforts Boeing put into it's quality assurance and control systems, you would be impressed.

    •  GM, Ford (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA

      Just look what happened to the auto indstry. It used to be the best. There was nothing like those cars back in the old days. And today? Toyota, Honda etc are clearly doing extremely well.

      Something went wrong, it can happe to the aero industry as well. Something should be done.

      Popular Vote theory= "teh stupid"

      by allmost liberal european on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:17:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would hope you are not advocating that our (0+ / 0-)

      .... country or our state's governors start hauling factory workers before the firing squads and execute them for screw ups while the onlookers sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" or the "Battle Hymn of the Republic"  and the local press writes glowing editorials praising the discipline.

      Sheesh.

      Even if you're uh, into that sort of system, it would be expensive to keep replacing trained workers.  China makes no secret that it thinks it has too many people already anyway, and it has much lower labor costs.  

      •  No, I'm not (0+ / 0-)

        Perhaps I should have made that clearer but the comment was massive already.  Nor do I advocate shipping factories and jobs overseas.  Just that blind pride and assumption that America is best is not going to cut it.  To be market leader, you need to relentlessly strive for absolute excellence and I think Boeing forgot that along the way.  Perhaps it can avoid the fate of the auto industry and recover it's reputation?

  •  Thank you for your service to our state (5+ / 0-)

    and country, Governor Gregoire, and for your endorsement of Sen. Obama.
    I look forward to your leadership for another four years.

    Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett

    by cherryXXX69 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:12:04 PM PDT

    •  A Governor that gets things done (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kitsap River, kyril

      A radical concept in politics and one my governor has accomplished.

      No one is perfect or will please every person, but you can't mistake Christine for a "do nothing" political person. She is out there fighting for every person in the state, regardless of political party, because it is the right thing to do.

      Gov, you rock!

      •  Especially when your citizen is Boeing. (0+ / 0-)

        Hey I have nothing against the Governor.  

        But conflating fighting for the citizen with fighting for the USA's biggest defense contractor is just WRONG in my world view.

        I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

        by VeganMilitia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:01:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Do you want the best? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dburbach, xynz, Rich in PA, pinguin

    According to the Pentagon Airbus was superior. Why would you choose inferior planes when you can have the best?

    And just in case this is news to some, there is this thing called 'trade' . It is a two way street.

    Popular Vote theory= "teh stupid"

    by allmost liberal european on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:12:13 PM PDT

    •  According the the Pentagon (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hornito, kyril

      doesn't mean shit

      •  It did (0+ / 0-)

        in this case.

        Popular Vote theory= "teh stupid"

        by allmost liberal european on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:18:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Boeing offered tankers based on B767 jets (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dburbach, xynz, anth

        Airbus offered based on A330 jets. A330 is much better than B767. More range, more capacity, more powerful engines. And this is based on the civilan version, I have no idea what tweaking they did for tankers. There is a reason why B767 sells so poorly, Boeing almost closed down their 767 assembly line while Airbus is still selling their A330 versions.

        Rabindranath Tagore-"Bigotry tries to keep truth safe in its hand with a grip that kills it."

        by joy sinha on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:21:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe, but (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          exmearden, FischFry, kyril

          More powerful engines and more capacity (ie a bigger plane) means that you are burning more fuel over the life of the plane.  If the plane's job is to transport X tons of stuff Y miles, the smallest plane that can do the job is the most cost-effective and generally the best engineering choice.  Would you rather move a desk across the state with a rental pickup ($50/day, $50 fuel) or a U-haul ($20/day, $100 fuel)?

          There are points given for flexibility in service (as there should be), but you have to look at the requirements that the USAF put down and see how the two planes compare.  

          Disclaimer: I don't know what the USAF requirements were, nor how their selection criteria worked, nor even if it was a fair competition.  I'm just saying that bigger and more powerful does not always equal better.  Also, just because the A330 is better at moving passengers doesn't mean that it's better at moving fuel and cargo.

          The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter. -Mark Twain

          by boatgeek on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:30:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  NPR did something on this a while back. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eloise

            Seems that the product Airbus offered was selected on its merits, not based on politics.  That decision has been taking a beating ever since.

            Personally, I'd love it if the Boeing product were better suited to needs.  It wasn't.  What I have a problem with is all the folks who want to turn it into some kinda decision based on patriotism, invest in a lesser product to support local interests.  To me that feels disturbingly close to advocating no bid contracts so you can keep the moolah circulating amongst your buddies.  Same principle, at heart.

            I'd be interested to know if it could be put up for a rebid so Boeing could try again given a more comprehensive set of specs.  One thing in favor of building within the US, aside from all the political reasons, is that our currency has been tanking steadily compared to the Euro.  Wouldn't that  inflate the price considerably over the course of the contract?

          •  Fuel -- not cargo (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Gravedugger, kyril

            This plane is meant as a fuel tanker. The fact that it might carry more cargo isn't germane. And the larger plane is far less efficient -- at least according to Boeing. If they're right, I vote for the plane that produces the smaller carbon-footprint -- given the cost of fuel, it's also less expensive to fly.

            Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you: Armisticeproject.org

            by FischFry on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:14:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Zoom Out (0+ / 0-)

            More powerful engines and more capacity (ie a bigger plane) means that you are burning more fuel over the life of the plane.

            This is true, but is only a negative if both bids proposed buying the same number of planes - which they don't. One of the main points of the EADS proposal is that if he USAF goes for the larger planes, they can do more per sortie, and hence can run with fewer individual sorties (and hence need fewer planes overall).

            So yes, if you consider the cost on a per sortie basis, the Airbus costs more. But if you consider the cost on a per mission basis (or on a per gallon of fuel delivered basis), the Airbus is cheaper - since it can do the mission with fewer planes.

            As for your desk, this of it this way: you have a lot of stuff to carry across the state. Would you rather use one U-Haul (20/100), or two pickups (50/50 per unit)?

            AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

            by Scipio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:45:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I want something useful (0+ / 0-)

      And tanker planes are the opposite of useful.  They're completely bonkers, pure environmental wastage.

      -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

      by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:31:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  what's the alternative for inflight refueling? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gravedugger

        Other than scrapping the whole military-industrial complex, what's the alternative?

        ---
        Guns don't kill people. Giant mutant insects kill people.

        by VelvetElvis on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:02:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why the *hell* do we need inflight refueling? (0+ / 0-)

          Before we had it, we used

          (1) aircraft carriers
          (2) military bases in friendly countries

          We still have lots of both.

          During the Cold War, when we expected to need to fly deep into a vast enemy territory, it made sense.  Now?  Not so much.

          And furthermore, massive long-distance aerial bombing campaigns have proven worse than useless for the current sorts of military challenges, from Vietnam onward: we need hearts and minds to win on the ground in the sort of complicated civil wars which happen these days, and the air power has proven very good at killing locals by accident and alienating the people we need.

          Of course, if we're planning to restart the Cold War the way Bush seems to be, then it would make sense.  But dammit, we shouldn't be.

          Perhaps if we bothered to actually make some allies, instead of ticking off the ones we already have, this might seem less essential?

          I mean, come on, 40 billion dollars?!?

          -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

          by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:12:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  To Kill Dark Skinned People in THEIR Homes (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            This is an instrument of military aggression, not defense.  Only an adolescent or dim-wit would believe that shining lie that we're killing them there so we don't have to kill them here.  I could come up with a hundred things a handful of motivated people could do with legally available guns, propane tanks, oxygen cylinders, and gasoline that would bring parts of this country to its knees and the trillions spent on this crap not providing one damn bit of protection.

            The minds and wealth of an entire generation, wasted!

  •  it's worse then you think (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OpherGopher, neroden, Picot verde, kyril

    McCain was instrumental in getting the bidding process changed such that EOD (the company chosen) got to make a bid that looked a lot better on paper then it really did.

    I'll hunt up the news article but it reeks of cronyism.

  •  And let's not forget (3+ / 0-)

    that at a fundraiser yesterday in Oregon, you got charged $10k if you wanted a photo taken together with him.

    No scruples.

    A ship adrift in a sea of rhetoric & recycled clichés.

    by Terre on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:15:21 PM PDT

  •  Question for the Governor (6+ / 0-)

    Dear Governor Gregoire- Please share with us how you intend to improve the funding of education in the state of Washington?    Could you either increase funding to cover the cost of basic education, or work with the legislators to remove the caps on local levies so that we can adequately fund primary and secondary education?    Thank you.

    •  Education (10+ / 0-)

      Thanks for your question.

      Since 2005, we've made critical investments in education. Before I was elected, voter-approved initiatives to increase teacher pay and decrease class sizes were ignored. But when I was elected, we kept our commitments with voters and funded these initiatives.

      We’ve invested in full-day kindergarten, starting with our students most in need. We've doubled the number of students in apprenticeships. And last year, voters passed Simple Majority, so school levies could pass with 50 percent plus one.

      You can find out more about education at www.chrisgregoire.com

      •  Early intervention has been the key to a better (0+ / 0-)

        society, more drug-free, more stable families, better HS graduation stats...since 1996, when the Rand study came out. Good to have you on board a progressive platform. Let your constituents lead you always and you'll be a great Governor!

        Would you want to be Vice President?

        "Change doesn't happen from the top down; it happens from the bottom up." Barack Obama

        by ezdidit on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:40:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  boeing and the economy (5+ / 0-)

    if we had a semblance of civil society, we wouldn't be spending $40B on more war gear in the first place.  boeing is doing gangbusters at the expense of the future and peace.  it's fine and well to commend employees for a job well done or whatever, but how proud should we really be that we can make planes that are used for illegal extraordinary renditions?

    •  I'm a bit skeptical (0+ / 0-)

      of calling an aerial refueller "war gear"

      "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows" - BD
      E: -5.62 S: -5.13

      by demotarian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:56:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  no? (0+ / 0-)

        for the life of me, i can't remember an instance of a commercial airliner being refueled while in transit.

        •  True (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mediaprisoner, neroden

          But there are other aircraft/missions that aren't part of the gears of war that benefit from aerial refuling (search and rescue, humanitarian, firefighting, etc...)

          "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows" - BD
          E: -5.62 S: -5.13

          by demotarian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:30:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you got me there (0+ / 0-)

            i should've said "military gear."

            •  I'd like to see the Air Force have to... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mediaprisoner, neroden

              hold a bake sale, while we get free education and health care (maybe they can make sugar cookies shaped like little airplanes), but out of all the money that gets wasted on blowing crap up and sending KBR executives to the super-bowl, spending money on being able to refuel planes in the air is certainly not the lardiest of the lard....

              "You don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows" - BD
              E: -5.62 S: -5.13

              by demotarian on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:55:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  True, it's not the most wasteful fat. (0+ / 0-)

                It's still a waste of money, but at least it's good for something.  Even if that something isn't really that useful.

                If we worked by that sort of standard in domestic expenditures -- and clearly our standards are even lower in the military -- we would have built enough solar, wind, and geothermal to end fossil fuel use permanently; we would have built high-speed trains criss-crossing the country; we'd have a single-payer health plan; we'd have about 100x the current funding for basic science research; we'd have broadband internet in every home, office, and wooden shack; etc., etc., etc.

                -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:16:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Then why is this a military contract? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JohnnySacks

            If it's so useful for firefighting, search-and-rescue, and so forth, why isn't this a contract through, say, the Department of Health and Human Services, or the Department of the Interior?

            -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

            by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:19:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Washington increased its exports by $2 billion... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dburbach, neroden

    ...in part, I'm sure, because foreign governments decided to let their people purchase the best goods at the best prices...and perhaps the governments themselves, as purchasers, decided to do the same thing, even to the detriment of local producers.

    So why should the US government, which insists upon other countries' commitment to free trade regardless of local impacts, purchase its planes from Boeing if it determines that another manufacturer has something better and/or cheaper?

    I guess this is "fair trade," which means free trade for others and managed trade for us.

    -5.38/-3.74 I've suffered for my country. Now it's your turn! --John McCain with apologies to Monty Python's "Protest Song"

    by Rich in PA on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:21:22 PM PDT

  •  Governor, heed the words of President Eisenhower (6+ / 0-)

    Boeing is doing juuuuuussssssssst fine thank you very much.

    They get a nice fat chunk of the defense budget every year.  Endless billions of our taxpayer money end up in their coffers for ever more military hardware, airplanes, and fancy weapons systems.

    Governor, I know that this was a too-good-too-pass-up opportunity to take a jab at Mr. McCain, and I know too that part of a governor's job is to hustle for the state's top industries.

    Still, I leave you with these words:

    This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.  

    President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

    Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960, p. 1035- 1040

    I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

    by VeganMilitia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:22:15 PM PDT

  •  Thanks Governor (5+ / 0-)

    Now do us all a favor and make your win over Rossi not nearly as close this time!

    "Polls are like crack, political activists know they're bad for them but they read them anyways."-Unkown

    by skywaker9 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:22:33 PM PDT

  •  YEah Chris!!! (4+ / 0-)

    You got my vote, thank for again calling out the monster McCain and Bush.

    The tanker deal was a blow to WA state...let's hope we are able to return that blow in kind to John McCain in November!

  •  AirBus bad? (5+ / 0-)

    I am sure Boeing is a great company, yet should I be upset that less military contracts are coming into the Puget Sound? Do we really need more mid-air fueling stations? Why? For our bomber in Iran? Rather than complain about not getting the contracts in Washington State, perhaps we should ask why we need such contracts anyway. Couldn't that money be better used to develop a mass transit system in the Puget Sound? After all, you Washingtonians have trashed the once beautiful Puget Sound and turned it into another concrete jungle. Stop complaining about the allocation of military spending and do something to stop the insane traffic jams from Smokey Point to Olympia. Where is the high-speed rail system once promised in the 1980s? That is the reason I left Washington and moved to Oregon. Oregonians at least have a better grip on growth management.

    "War is the health of the state." Rudolf Bourne "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."Samuel Johnson

    by american pastoral on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:24:16 PM PDT

  •  McCain's staff being former Airbus lobbyists (5+ / 0-)

    doesn't help his McCain's case of "straight-talk" much either:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    I have no problems busting Boeing for their attempts to bilk the taxpayer's $8 billion a couple years back.  They've got plenty of issues in their own right.  But if the claims of Boeing are true, that the Air Force switched the criteria to which they were wanting for their planes in midstream, ESPECIALLY after McCain and his Airbus lobbyist/staffers started putting more pressure on the Pentagon, at the very least it calls for an investigation of some sort.

    Lawrence, KS - From ashes to immortality

    by MisterOpus1 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:26:20 PM PDT

  •  just hope mccain isn't flying the plane (3+ / 0-)

    When Senator McCain’s plane lands at Boeing Field, I hope he takes a moment to notice that he is surrounded by the world’s finest workers and airplanes.

    don't be so sure of that

    if mcsame is flying the plane, he might be surrounded by wrecked planes and emergency personel

    jus sayin, is all ...

    But I LIKE hitting below the belt

  •  Here in Wichita this is a huge deal (5+ / 0-)

    Hundreds, if not thousands, of jobs that would've been directly created by the tanker contract were washed away by the Air Force's decision, not to mention the other jobs created secondarily. While Boeing certainly didn't play fair the first time around and got caught with their pants around their ankles, the decision to go with Airbus still sucks. The Air Force gave Boeing the wrong specs to bid on (or so we're told) and they bid the 767 instead of the larger 777. And who had a hand in all of this? Mssr. McCain.

    Related to this, we've got a total dickhead wingnut representative named Todd Tiahrt and he has staked his entire reputation on protecting the aviation industry here in 'the Air Capital' (that's what many of us call Wichita 'round here:); his nickname is 'Tanker Todd' for God's sake. Now that he couldn't deliver the goods, he's crying foul and has implicitly blamed McCain. What do you wanna bet he'll still be campaigning for and supporting McCain though? I hope we can beat his sorry ass, but its not likely. Wichita is pretty backwards.

  •  I saw Governor Gregoire speak at my Union Hall (7+ / 0-)

    about the Air Force Tanker Contract.

    The only politician who I've seen give a more rousing speech than Gregoire's was Barack Obama.

    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

    by Lefty Coaster on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:43:07 PM PDT

    •  She spoke at my daughter's graduation (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wa ma

      My daughter graduated from CWU last year and the Governor came to make a commencement speech. I have to admit, I had been lukewarm about her up until then, as we only get to see her on TV on the east side. But she really impressed me with what she had to say and I came away feeling good about her. I am proud that she is our Governor. I am not too happy about the Kosiaks trying to take a dump on this diary. I can only think that none of them have to work for a living.

      I am not afraid of the pen, or the scaffold, or the sword. I will tell the truth wherever I please.

      by mundog50 on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:47:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Can I interrupt for a Good Cause (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitsap River, Floja Roja, kyril

    Ninepatch has posted a Food Bomb for WV Obama Campaign Workers.

    Please read, recommend and help out if you can.  They are doing a really difficult job there.

    Support the Troops Proceeds support Ninepatch's Care Packages to the Troops

    by donnamarie on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:43:29 PM PDT

  •  Off topic but..... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rogneid, kyril, scrubjay, Larsstephens

    Governor I was getting very excited to donate and work on your re-election this year. I have recently had some very serious misgivings about doing so in light of your appointment of Timchaulk to the states pesticide monitoring board. This is a man who not only worked for Dow chemical for 10 years but is still affiliated with the chemical company. I do not believe he is suited to protecting the public interests. Instead, his continued employment with Dow should have disqualified him from the position.
    I am in the horticultural community myself and feel this to be detrimental to my safety and that of my family. This is an extremely important issue for the citizens of this state and I urge you to reconsider your appointment, doing so would enable me once again to be a Gregoire supporter.

  •  That's my very (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kitsap River, Auntie Neo Kawn, kyril

    brilliant Governor making sense!

    And, a she's supporter of BHO too.  Hopefully there are plenty more like minded folks to our south.  We'll see on the 20th.

  •  unfortunately, Boeing is the only US option (6+ / 0-)

    If we restricted competitive contracts for such planes to US companies, Boeing would have a monopoly. Nobody else in the US is building large jets anymore. Can you imagine how much Boeing would be charging the DoD if they were the only bidder?

    Gov. Gregoire, whom I very much admire in many ways, is unfortunately wrong on this issue. Politically, she may have little choice, given the huge part of the WA economy made up of Boeing and its related companies. But that doesn't mean it's the right position, I'm afraid...

    car wreck : car insurance :: climate wreck : climate insurance

    by HarlanNY on Tue May 13, 2008 at 12:51:25 PM PDT

  •  Boeing's bribery (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dburbach, Rogneid

    Didn't Boeing try to make some deal where they were initially going to lease refueling planes to the AF at really bloated prices and didn't some people go to jail for bribery or something over this?
    In my world, Boeing doesn't get any gov. contracts for 10 years or so as punishment. Sorry, that's how I feel.

    The Republican Party: The Bridge to Nowhere

    by flounder on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:02:48 PM PDT

  •  NO MORE MILITARY SPENDING (8+ / 0-)

    With all due respect, spending $40 billion on the military does not "create" jobs, nor is it an "investment" in anything. It's just more money down a already too-large rathole.

    Spending $40 billion on wind turbines, however, is an investment. Or on hospitals. Or on education. That's how we should be spending our money, NOT on new vehicles to move military hardware from here to there.

    Molly Ivins wanted WHO for President?

    by Positronicus on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:05:40 PM PDT

  •  It's an honor to have you posting here at Kos, (6+ / 0-)

    Gov. Gregoire. As a resident of the Other Washington, I'm proud to have you as my Governor. Thanks for bringing us the info on yet another detour of the "straight talk express." Stories like this one seem to be coming to our attention more and more, but so far the msm doesn't seem to be aware of them. I hope once we have a nominee, the press will start paying attention.

    I also want to extend my appreciation for your strong support of Senator Obama. It won't be forgotten when (re-)election time comes around.

    "I'm asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washinton...I'm asking you to believe in yours." - Barack Obama

    by Wordie on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:07:43 PM PDT

  •  Boeing Field tower to Sen. McCain... (4+ / 0-)

    You're not cleared for landing.

    Thank you for posting here Governor. As a lifelong Washingtonian, I'm very proud to have you as our Governor.

    As you alluded to in your post, Boeing has offices and employees in all 50 states. Despite that, Bush/McCain would rather the jobs go directly to Europe with a side order of jobs for their cronies in red state Alabama.

    I certainly hope that the Boeing workers fully realize his role in this deal. If they do, then I don't think they'll be rolling out the welcome for Sen. McCain at the Everett Boeing plant the way they did for the President of China. Why was that war in Vietnam so important again?

  •  I'm Glad You're My Governor... (4+ / 0-)

    ...and was pleased to see you in Richland a couple of months ago!

    Support the Netroots Candidates! A VETO-PROOF majority in 2008!!!

    by InquisitiveRaven on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:18:26 PM PDT

  •  Dear Governor Gregoire (7+ / 0-)

    My husband and I are Eastside residents. We both agree that you receive little to no credit for the wonderful job you've done running this state since your election. We're both very proud to be supporters of yours and wish you all the best against the Rossi smear machine.

    Thank you for everything you do. Truly. Thank you.

  •  With all due respect Govenor (9+ / 0-)

    Boeing has been outsourceing an increasing amount of parts for YEARS. The only part of the 787 being built in your state is a section of the tail. Much is being built overseas, and you know all too well that Boeing has been hell bent on reducing it's union US workforce for YEARS.

    The 767 is an old plane, it was made obsolete by the A330, the airbus plane that the US Airforce finally selected. Both companies have their own stats and numbers that debate which is a better plane, but if you  read the aviation trade journals and blogs, and just the general feeling of the aviation industry, the A330 is a better plane.

    We sell billions upon BILLIONS of arms to Europe, they subsidize our military manufacturing base to such a degree that if their money went away almost every program in development would collapse. The US sells the EU far more military gear than vice versa. We do this under a common understanding that both sides of the Atlantic operate freely and we'll buy the best platform that meets each countries needs. The US usually wins these competitions. Boeing has been driving EU fighter makers to near bankruptcy for years with their F-16. To turn around and say we can't buy a better plane b/c the parts are made in the EU is protectionist non-sense that will cost the US many times more in future export sales.

    The new plane will be built in Alabama (at least as much as the 787 is "built" in WA) and much of the parts will come from US suppliers. Airbus wasn't dumb structuring this deal. Many US jobs will be created, almost none of the those jobs will be in your state.

    Boeing already had this contract, it was won. But investigators discovered that Boeing had essentially bought off the lead Air Force procurement officer. So the contract was put out to rebid. Since the last contract was so tainted the Air Force went to great lengths to make sure this was a fair competition. They felt Airbus put forth a better bid, and most outside analysts I've read agree.

    The KC-45 flies, farther, carries more fuel, and can carry more cargo than the 767 based tanker.

    Boeing lost, it happens, the 767 line will probably die b/c of this and that will cause a big impact on your state. But trying to hijack netroots outrage with this misleading propaganda is really contemptible.

    It is a MUCH more complex issue that the good governor is laying out.

    I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain

    by Windowdog on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:20:44 PM PDT

  •  I wish we weren't buying "military tanker planes" (6+ / 0-)

    What the heck sort of wrong priorities is that?

    Why aren't we using our federal dollars instead to get, say, single-payer health care, high-speed rail to get us across the country with very little oil use, and mass transit for the same reasons?  Or, heck, to pay for hand-counted paper ballots?

    Washington State's been really good on many of these things, but why does it have to pay for it locally, while money to Blow Stuff Up In Foreign Countries is continuously vacuumed out of the pockets of all Americans including Washingtonians?

    There's a bigger issue here than Boeing vs. EADS.  Why are all our big government contracts military nonsense?!?!

    -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

    by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:21:12 PM PDT

    •  Also, flying tankers are INSANE environmentally (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mxwll, rolet, 123frenchwine, Picot verde

      I suppose they might have been necessary -- for the COLD WAR.  News flash -- it's OVER.

      These things shouldn't be built by Europe OR the US.  They shouldn't even exist.  I suppose we might want a small reserve fleet to prepare for a potential future war, but we already have such a fleet -- until they physically fall apart, we really don't need new ones.

      -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

      by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:23:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cheaper to buy new, than to keep the old ones... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, AmericanRiverCanyon, pinguin

        The existing tanker fleet is made up of modified 707s, built in the 60s. They're already falling apart nicely.

        As for "not having any tankers"... we've got three options: tankers, bases every five hundred miles all over the globe, or giving up and saying that we just can't send warplanes to large parts of the world.

        While the third option might actually be the best one, you're not going to get a majority of Americans to SAY that. And tankers are cheaper than bases, even if, say, India was willing to let us have them.

        •  Well, the third option IS the best one, but (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VeganMilitia

          To be perfectly blunt, we already HAVE bases all over the globe -- and we also have these things called "aircraft carriers", which are a much cheaper way to transfer fuel, and we have them all over the globe -- and we also have cooperative agreements with foreign militaries over most of the globe, militaries who have airbases -- and, well, you get the picture.

          OK, so in order to maintain the ability to bomb anywhere in the world any time with no cooperation, we need these flying global warming factories -- but for 40 billion dollars, I just don't see them being anywhere near worth it.

          Just remind Americans: "Your bridge collapsed?  Sorry, that money was needed so we could bomb certain deeply inland foreign countries from the air.  Not that that ability has helped us catch bin Laden or made you any safer or anything."

          -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

          by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:05:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Why do you hate America so much... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            neroden

            as to bring up uncomfortable facts?

            I'm a progressive man, and I love progressive people - Tosh

            by VeganMilitia on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:31:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  B-52 (0+ / 0-)

            You can't land a B-52 on a carrier.

            More generally, in-air refueling allows us to get significantly more value out of the airplanes we have. Let's say we need four planes orbiting over a certain area constantly, and this area is about an hour's flight time from the nearest base, and that the plane carries three hours' fuel on board.

            Option one: four teams of planes. This allows each team of planes to commute to the station for an hour, orbit for an hour, fly back to base for an hour, and sit down/refuel for an hour. Net result is that each team spends 25% of its time on-station.

            Option two: two teams of planes and a tanker. Send the tanker our 45 mins in advance, and have it hang out at that point (close, but not over, the action). Send the first team out; at 45 minutes they tank, so they come on station with a (pretty much) full tank of gas. They stay on station for 2.5hrs, fly back to the tanker, tank again, and go home, at which point team two shows up. Net result: a little over 50% time on station.

            This is the value of tankers - you can keep an asset on station much longer, without having to go all the way home for refueling.

            AT&T offers exciting work for recent graduates in computer science. Pick up the phone, call your mom, and ask for an application.

            by Scipio on Tue May 13, 2008 at 05:00:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  B-52s are an obsolete cold war item, now a waste. (0+ / 0-)

              They have no function in the modern military, and this has pretty much been admitted by the military.

              Let's say we need four planes orbiting over a certain area constantly,

              Are you thinking AWACS, airborne intelligence?  There are few legitimate reasons to have planes "orbiting over a certain area constantly" in the sort of wars we fight today -- remember, aerial bombing at a moment's notice is basically a recipe for shooting ourselves in the foot -- and it's a hideous consumption of fuel.  I suppose AWACS is a legitimate reason for aerial refuelling.  But still, $40 BILLION?

              -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

              by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:25:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  To sum up: I WANT MY PEACE DIVIDEND. (0+ / 0-)

                We were promised it by George Bush senior.

                We are now spending even more on the military, even before you figure in Iraq and Afghanistan, than we did then.

                At this point, there is very little military spending which is legitimately for defense of the United States.  Accordingly, I have to assume any military contract "guilty of being worthless, until proven genuinely useful".

                I'm open to proof that airborne tankers are genuinely valuable -- well, actually, if they cost about $1 million, I'd be quite comfortable with them.  

                When the Pentagon, perhaps, defends the US from a genuine threat (there's a wild idea!) maybe I'll be more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on GIANT WASTEFUL EXPENDITURES.

                -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                by neroden on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:32:51 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Gov. Gregoire (7+ / 0-)

    As a Washington resident, Navy veteran, and former military aircraft mechanic who has a number of friends and former coworkers working in the aircraft industry for Boeing and other companies in Washington and California, I want to thank you very much for this diary and tell you how much I appreciate you making the effort to come here and talk to us in the blog community. You're one of the best political figures out there, and I'm proud to have you as my governor!

    I hope you come back another day to talk about the environmental situation and our salmon.

    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

    by kyril on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:26:35 PM PDT

  •  From the wholesale govt (3+ / 0-)

    collusion with major manufacturers such as Boeing via its predecessor component, MDC, giving away manufacturing assembly facilities to China in the 80's; to this selection of a tanker, we are hellbent on destroying the last vestiges of our manufacturing industries.

    It is almost as if we as a nation have decided that anything that produces anything is not worth it. That is that labor is worthless and all that matters is paper pushing and financial endeavors. In the end we will end up with a caste system of uber wealthy and poor servants, much like Victorian England if this trend continues.

    "The fact which the politician faces is merely that there is less honor among thieves than was supposed, and not the fact that they are thieves." Thoreau

    by shigeru on Tue May 13, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM PDT

  •  Governor Gregoire (2+ / 0-)

    With all due respect, I wish you'd have presented some of the facts--and your arguments against them-- that influenced the military decision made when  Airbus offered a better product for military needs, rather than just stating your case in a propagandistic fashion, designed to stir up nationalism and the concerns folks have about rising food and gas prices.

    Even though the decision might ought to be revisited, this kind of manipulation is not what I think of when I consider the new direction America needs to go in.  It's the same tactics we're accustomed to from the Bush administration.  Surely you can do better.

  •  Yes! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril

    I contacted my Representative, Mark Kirk, to express my concern about this issue, and here is his response:

    Thank you for contacting me regarding the Department of Defense's decision to award a contract to Northrop Grumman and its European partner EADS to build United States Air Force aerial refueling tankers. I appreciate your thoughts on this important issue.

    As a Naval Officer, I know the benefit of tanker aircrafts to our military. I personally used tankers over Bosnia and Turkey during military operations. While tankers may not be exciting, they offer unique capabilities over our adversaries.

    As you may know, on February 29, 2008, the Air Force selected a bid from Northrop Grumman/EADS over a competing bid from Boeing. In the opinion of the Air Force contract managers, the Northrop tanker provided more capabilities for a price lower than the aircraft offered by Boeing. The Air Force needs a new fleet of aerial refueling tankers to replace aging tankers based on outdated designs of the old McDonnell-Douglas DC-10 or Boeing 707.

    On March 11, 2008, Boeing filed a protest against the Air Force's decision to award Northrop Grumman the military contract with the Government Accountability Office (GAO). This nonpartisan agency oversees contract disputes and is anticipated to make a final ruling by June 19, 2008. The focus of this review will be to determine if the Air Force unfairly changed the requirements of the bid solicitation.

    As a member of the House Appropriations Committee, I believe Congress should have strong oversight over U.S. defense contracts. Rest assured, I will review the GAO's work in detail to ensure that both American workers but especially American pilots get the best tanker aircraft.

    Thank you for your correspondence on this important issue. Please visit my website at www.house.gov/kirk or contact me again should further issues of importance to you come before the Congress.

    And here is my response:

    Representative Kirk,

    Thank you for your response to this concern.  I hope that at the end of your review you and your colleagues will agree that the best way to improve our economy is to create higher paying jobs here in America.   I will be following this issue closely and look forward to your response.

    Tell your representative that this is not acceptable.

  •  Thanks for taking the time to post here! (0+ / 0-)

    and for the call for change. Two small comments, though. Airbus planes are probably as good as Boeing planes. Democrats sometimes also have verry expensive fund raising dinners.

    •  Airbus as good as Boeing? ********! (0+ / 0-)

          For the record, our current KC-135 fleet is around 50 years old. (still in everyday service!)That's 13 years older than the first Airbus ever made, and that Airbus has been out of service for a long time.

          The expected service life of the Airbus tanker (Wrongly based on Boeing longivity, IMHO)is a mere 40 years- 20% less than Boeing tankers built a half century ago.

          Not exactly impressive. Neither is the fact that not a single Airbus has ever survived even 40 years of daily service

          The only planes in the sky in daily service for 50 years are all Boeings.

          Did you know there is a SLEP (Service life extension program) to take the Boeing B-52's out to 80 years of service life? Head-spinning in and of itself, but...

          The funny thing is, they are looking at another SLEP to add an additional 20 years!.

          If adopted, that would mean a HUNDRED year service life!

          So- Airbus has never made a airframe good enough to go 40 years, while Boeing made airframes over a half century ago that are planned to go for 80 to 100 years.

          Aerospace engineers have a saying- "Engineers will tell you to buy a Boeing, Accountants will tell you to buy an Airbus".

          Suffice it to say that far more accountants than engineers are willing to fly in an Airbus...

          On a personal note, I worked in aerospace in the past, and I had flown in Boeing, McDonnell-Douglas, and Lockheed planes my entire life until last December, when I flew in an Airbus A320.

          When the landing flaps were deployed, there was such loud clanking and clunking, I got scared. You see, every landing is best described as a controlled crash. If the flaps do not deploy correctly, you simply have a crash, and nobody survives.

          First thing after the initial pucker, I looked at the cabin crew, and realized that the horrific noise I heard was indeed "normal" for that Airbus because they were all unrattled. Ho-hum.

          As a Quality professional with USA aerospace experience, I was amazed that Airbus engineering allowed failure-mode noises in their product.

          That is extremely piss poor engineering by USA AUTO standards. And it would NEVER be tolerated by USA aerospace engineers.

          Airbus competes on price because Airbus is heavily subsidized by European governments, Boeing competes on QUALITY and ABILITY because Airbus will never achieve Boeing quality or ability.

          Asshole scum like mcbush (who not only crashed his plane 5 times, but he ALSO shot the Zuni missle that caused the Forrestal fire that killed 168 navy sailors) inflicting inferior airframes upon our pilots, and inflicting foreign tankers that are so inferior to USA tankers, they can't even service the USA inventory as federal law requires.

          Ok- mcbush killed 168 sailors in the Forrestal fire, and he is happy with that. He violated US Navy law by both arming and shooting a Zuni rocket before launch.

          Because his daddy was CINCPAC, he never had to answer for killing 168 USA sailors.

          And mcbush will kill even more USA military personnel if he is allowed to inflict the substandard Airbus tanker upon USA aircrews.

          As if that mcscumbag cares.

          Airbus is to aerospace quality what mcbush is to USA sailor safety.

          Please- do the google!  

           

             

         

           

  •  Wish I Could Afford to Stay Here as a Craftsman (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    auditor

    but I have to go back to Strick-land for the cheaper housing.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:18:38 PM PDT

  •  Governor Gregoire (5+ / 0-)

    There is nothing this administration HASN'T done to economically cripple in any way they can highly industrialized states (or parts of states) that typically have high democratic constituent densities.  Note the destruction of industrialization all around the great lakes. i.e.: MI, Northern Ohio, IN and ILL  and, of course, California.

    A person who worked for my company had worked with Boeing executive management to get the Joint Strike Fighter program and told me exactly what happened in the flight demos that essentially threw the contract to Lockheed.  It is ALL POLITICAL motivated.

    I have worked over 12 years in the military-industrial complex, not necessarily happily, and have never witnessed anything BUT politics involved and agregious corruption at the highest levels.

    When the hyperinflationary phase of the federal reserve bailout of insolvent banks (currently in its beginning phase, NOT ending phase)...the results will be devastating around the country.  Vallejo, CA is the first municipality to go bankrupt...many more to follow.

    As a WA resident I know for a fact, corporations in the state (aerospace) who haven't already are going to outsource more and more jobs to 3rd world countries.  

    If the democratic party doesn't want fascism to take over this country....manufacturing (not military) must increase IN THIS COUNTRY and fast.  Free trade and globalization does not support a prosperous and democratic society and are incompatible.  WHen will the democratic party understand this?  

    Economic theory prior to Milton Freidman's 'economic theory' did not support this stuff

  •  Planes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raatz, neroden

    I have sympathy for those losing thier jobs, but perhaps they might have different (and more productive) employment if they were not in the defense industry at all.  We spend way too much on all our military.  We have enough guns to blow up the sun if we wanted too.

    Democrats have constituents, Republicans have clients.

    by whitsmail on Tue May 13, 2008 at 02:37:31 PM PDT

  •  Tax payer money for Amreican jobs and airplane! (0+ / 0-)

    Not to send the jobs overseas. This issue should be front and center in the election.

  •  Respectfully Disagree - Globalization goes 2 ways (6+ / 0-)

    I am a resident of WA and a bit support of Gov. Gregoire, however, I find all of the hand wringing over the Boeing tanker contract to be completely disingenuous.

    First, the 767 is an inferior platform to the A330 for a whole bunch of reasons, including its age and size. Check out Airliners.net if you want discussions of the technical reasons why this is the case.

    Second, and most importantly, Boeing (and their backers) want their cake and to eat it to. Specifically, Boeing wants to be able to outsource huge portions of the manufacturing of the 787 overseas (most prominently to Japan and Italy) while at the same time begging for protection from foreign competitors in the military sector. We may well want a different standard for military aircraft than for commercial ones, but let's at least be honest about that.

    If Beoing wants globalization for the 787 program, which has helped them to win a record number of orders for the plane before it every takes to the air, then it seems to me that they ought to shut up when globalization comes back to bite them...

    •  agree (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      superscalar, synductive99

      for some reason American companies want the export controls but to outsource parts manufacturing.  Just watch the Chinese reverse engineer everything they buy from the US (do we export anything but planes and guns these days?), put their little logo on it,  and destroy the US companies who are ruining our country with outsourcing manufacturing.

      SquareD didn't seem to learn anything though their little switches are getting cloned in China.

      Orwell meet George the 43rd

      by FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:13:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I respectfully correct one thing (0+ / 0-)

      First, the 767 is an inferior platform to the A330 for a whole bunch of reasons, including its age and size.

      This is a true statement, however it was not what the Air Force asked for in the RFP (Request for Proposal). They asked for a certain fuel offload capacity, which the 767 meets to the tea. The RFP stated that a bigger airframe would get no merit for exceeding this limit. Boeing asked the Air Force if they would want the bigger, much more expensive, 777 as the airframe and the Air Force pointed back to the RFP and said they wanted to meet the requirements for the best possible price. So Boeing picked the 767 as the best cost solution, which it is.

  •  Boeing is making a stink because they lost. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anthonyLA

    The Northrop Grumman/EADS team is selling more plane for cheaper.

    http://www.americasnewtanker.com/

  •  It's the price you pay (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    last patriot left

    for getting Europe and NATO to take over the Afghanistan quagmire where they have absolutely no business being, so as to allow US forces to be redirected to um.. somewhere else which isn't Afghanistan or Bin Laden Land.

    I have no proof whatsoever for believing this, but lacking the ability to inspire the world to follow him, every ally in Bush's Folly has been paid to be there through a deal, from Poland (cash) to Australia (US free trade). The question is what was the price Bush had to pay for getting French, Dutch and German NATO soldiers into Afghanistan? This would be it I think. Something which would boost the French, Dutch and German aerospace industry.

    •  Indeed- granting a contract to an inferior... (0+ / 0-)

          Granting  a contract for an inferior tanker is both bush's and MCbush's bribe to Germany to assist the USA in Afghanistan.

          What the hell- Why not just buy an inferior tanker from an inferior aircraft manufacturer as long as it gets us help in a bushian quagmire?

          Do USA citizens really care how many tanker crews are murdered by inflicting inferior airframes on them?

          Do USA taxpayers care (even if they knew) that the Airbus "tanker" will cost USA taxpayers AT LEAST 20 BILLION DOLLARS MORE than KC767's? (That assumes that Airbus will ever be able to produce a viable tanker- there is no evidence whatsoever that Airbus can).

          Does there exist a USA taxpayer who knows that Airbus has NEVER produced an airframe that accomplished even a mere 40 years in daily service?

          (OK- So THIS USA taxpayer knows).  

          That ship has sailed.

          The Airbus "tanker" deal is a bribe for NATO help in Afghanistan because bush and mcbush put all their eggs in the Iraq basket.

          Remember- mcbush killed 168 USA sailors by illegally firing a Zuni rocket and starting the USS Forrestal fire.

          You think he cares how many USA military persons will die because he inflicted inferior Airbus tankers upon USA servicepeople?

          Hell, he STILL doesn't give a shit about the 168 sailors he killed on the USS Forrestal.

  •  I think that we should have American hands (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    luku, Rogneid

    And I think we should have American hands building planes

    Writing software too. I also think that we should be providing incentives for Americans to go into STEM careers instead of importing cheap guest-workers from India.

    But Senator McCain is silent, asking no questions and seemingly content with 44,000 of our jobs and $40 billion of our tax dollars going overseas.

    And when Indian outsourcers set up shop in the US, bring in guest-workers on H1B and L1 visas, gain domain experience, and then ship the jobs back to India Governor, just what is the difference?

    Pro H-1B Gregoire selling out American tech workers

    <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

    by superscalar on Tue May 13, 2008 at 03:40:43 PM PDT

    •  Demand for programmers outstrips domestic supply (0+ / 0-)

      As a software engineer who has also interviewed candidates, both native citizens and H1-B holders, it's my opinion that the U.S. does not graduate or otherwise train enough qualified engineers to meet the demands of the software industry. Furthermore, the ridiculous barriers to obtaining a Green Card or naturalization force any number of my taxpaying colleagues, including a number of my friends, to remain in H1-B status when they would gladly become citizens if granted the opportunity.

      My good friend from Singapore is as crazy for Obama as I am, but he can't donate to the campaign and he can't vote, despite having lived, studied and worked in the U.S. for the last dozen years.

      No thanks to protectionism in this field. There is enough bad software written, and plenty of jobs to go around cleaning up the mess. No need to make the situation worse by protecting programmers who can't compete.

      •  A Reply (0+ / 0-)

        The links are HERE. Scroll down to where it says

        The truth is, there is no shortage of software engineers in this country. Nor is there a shortage of H-1B Visas nor foreign workers according to…

        1. The Urban Institute
        1. The Sloan Foundation
        1. The Rand Corporation
        1. Harvard University
        1. Duke University

        This is how the game is played

        These links are for YOU Governor.

        By the way, I am a software engineer too, although my degree is in electrical engineering.

        <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

        by superscalar on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:04:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  In my experience, there is a shortage of talent (0+ / 0-)

          I've worked for companies that hire only a very small percentage of candidates that apply -- not because they don't have lots of vacancies, but because the bar is set high.

          If you look at the workers as a commodity, where anybody with a degree is adequate and interchangeable, maybe you can make the argument that  there is "no shortage".

          But woe to the software company whose recruiters think like that. And woe to their customers. If immigration controls interfere with the ability of U.S. companies to hire the best qualified engineers, we all lose.

          Should we make baseball franchises recall their scouts from Latin America and Japan so that U.S. athletes don't have to compete for a spot with foreign players? Of course not. We want the best.

          Software workers earn a wage that is the envy of people working in many other industries. The nature of the work allows us to compete on the quality of our individual craft. We are hardly victims.

          I don't want to work with programmers who have nothing to offer to offset the proposition that somebody from a different company might do work for less. I don't want to work for a company that would hire on such a basis, and I would not expect such an enterprise to survive for long.

          Incidentally, some of the best engineers I have worked with have had degrees in Electrical Engineering. Some of them have also been H1-B visa holders!

          •  And the average H1B holder (0+ / 0-)

            I've worked for companies that hire only a very small percentage of candidates that apply -- not because they don't have lots of vacancies, but because the bar is set high

            Is between 28 and 34, has a bachelor's degree, is from India, and makes $53,000 per year -- so the bar couldn't be set very high -- could it?

            <div style="font-size:10px;text-align:center;background-color:#ffd;color:#f33">If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

            by superscalar on Wed May 14, 2008 at 06:00:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Boeing's fine history (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Livvy5

    Boeing has a fine history of producing what we need when we need it. That we're losing $40B, 44k jobs, and now paying for an expensive plane with a weak dollar ... well ... this seems rather butt stupid to me, but I've grown accustom to it during the Bush years.

     I see some snivelers sniveling about this being a "jingoistic" diary. I don't recognize any of their names but this is exactly the diary I'd write to light a fire under the behinds of legions of union workers in my state ... and we have a primary right around the corner right next door in Oregon, right? Phone banking, anyone?

    Glad to see you here, Madame Governor ...

  •  Hi from Leavenworth! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    understandinglife, Rogneid

    I work with the daughter of the gentleman you know in Wenatchee that was killed when he fell out of his tree last month.

    Jody told me she has met you at dinners with her parents and you love my town. Welcome any time.

    I was wondering if you have been talking to our senators lately about switching to Obama?

    If we are going to have a chance to win in Nov, we have to join as one in our party.

    As you know its not going to be an easy fight. I hope Patty and Maria will listen to you.

  •  Good to see you here, Gov Gregoire (0+ / 0-)

    Hope you visit this remarkable community, frequently.

    To the Future,
    Bob Franza

  •  Thank You (0+ / 0-)

    Governor, for addressing what we all know is major problem for this country. Mainly, that we have been saddled with a national government that has no interest in governing. They care nothing for the nation itself. But, only those who can make them wealthier and give them more power. This we will rectify in November.

    Common Sense is not Common

    by RustyBrown on Tue May 13, 2008 at 04:52:10 PM PDT

  •  Please don't try to con us about Boeing (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, Greg306, anthonyLA, VeganMilitia

    I understand that the Boeing corporation is an important employer in your state, but watching politicians pimp for this corporation is unseemly. Governor Gregoire, I think your better than that- and also, there are plenty of progressive Democrats in California & Florida that are plenty happy with the Pentagon's selection of Northrop Grumman for the tanker contract. What do you say to them?

    Most likely when the GAO report comes out, it will affirm the Air Force's tanker selection and the fairness of the competition. I hope you support the facts on this issue and not demagogue it into a manufactured political controversy to the benefit of the Boeing corporation. With executives dismissed and a high ranking government official in jail as a result of the last tanker competition, I hardly think the Boeing holds the moral high ground on this selection and I would hope that our Democratic leaders would be a little less enthusiastic about turning this into a political football at Boeing's behest.

    •  Most Dems are outraged. You trust the (0+ / 0-)

      Bush administration over the Democrats in congress?

      Let's look into respective major shareholders, shall we?

      "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." Barack Obama

      by keeplaughing on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:15:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Of course not, I don't trust either. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neroden, Greg306, VeganMilitia

        But this isn't a Democratic/Republican issue. This is mostly a regional/corporation issue. Notice that Kansas is on the Boeing side of this, and last time I checked their delegation was solidly in the "R" column.

        Trying to turn this into a D/R issue is silly. Boeing lost a competition and is trying to use politics to overturn the decision. They will pursue every avenue they can, but please don't fall into the trap of calling this a Democratic/Republican issue. It is not. Boeing is spending major bucks on a propaganda campaign trying to shove disinformation down our throats. It heartens me that so many posters here are sharp enough and up on the issues enough to understand this.

        If Boeing really cared enough about "American" jobs, they would have protested the evaluation criteria before they bid on the contract. Oh, and they wouldn't have outsourced all that work on the 787. In fact, there is significant foreign content in the 767 that they bid for the tanker. But now it is a convenient issue for them to raise so they can try to use politics to overturn the contract award.

  •  As a New Yawker ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, baudelairien

    (as in the NYC kind) ...

    It seems fitting that McCain finds his most avid supporters in Bellevue.

    ... oh ... you mean the city ... in Washington state.

    The other Bellevue seems more apt.

    For a second there I thought that the City of New York was ahead of itself in its redevelopment of the facility to a new use.

    White woman over 50 for OBAMA!! (Endorsed 10/07)

    by Glinda on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:04:46 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for posting, you're my gov, and I'll (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wa ma

    be there working for you.  I'm damned proud of you.

    And thanks for keeping Washington workers at work!  We appreciate it.

    Now as for how I feel about the amount of money we spend in this country on the military.... well, that's for another discussion.  If I'm paying for it anyway, I want the resulting jobs to go to Americans.

    But won't it be great when Boeing is building petroleum-free mass-transit cars instead of military machinery?

    "We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." Barack Obama

    by keeplaughing on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:09:07 PM PDT

  •  Why is there no mention (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Greg306, Dauphin
    of the jobs created here in MS/AL where final assembly of the EADS/Northrop Grumman aircraft is to take place?

    Ms. Gregoire is entitled to lobby on behalf of her state and its businesses, but it's a little misleading to insist that "40 billion and 44,000 new good-paying jobs" are all going over-seas.

    I had come to an entirely erroneous conclusion which shows, my dear Watson, how dangerous it always is to reason from insufficient data.

    by TheBigKahuna on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:35:43 PM PDT

  •  So exporting of jobs is now considered (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VeganMilitia

    a good thing here by some at DailyKos.

    Give me a break.

    Either that or RedState and Freerepublic has been emptied out and they are all writing comments here tonight.

    Gov. Gregoire is correct -- it is an outrage that the tankers were awarded to Airbus

    It is an outrage that it is going to cost the US taxpayers more to have Airbus build the planes - and it is going to be more expensive to operate them

    It is going to be more expensive to have hangars made for them because these planes are so much bigger than anything already in place.

    So - giving the tankers to Airbus is not a good thing -- and you can spin your GOP talking points as much as you want - but the fact still remains

    It does not make economic sense for the U.S. - or for American workers.

    "Proud to proclaim: I am a Bleeding Heart Liberal"

    by sara seattle on Tue May 13, 2008 at 06:45:40 PM PDT

  •  thank you (0+ / 0-)

    I'm happy to see my governor posting here!  Thank you so much for your strong endorsement of Obama.  Looking forward to voting for you again.

  •  The taxpayers pay for those contract, no? (0+ / 0-)

    So on top of losing the jobs and exporting our stimulus package, we must pay others to build for our military. Some argue that the government should go where the work costs least. But I think that we would be better off with a law that forbids giving contracts to any companies that are not located in the USA.

    Fund the Obama campaign, not the fear campaign. Fear feeds the dragon.

    by mrobinson on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:06:41 PM PDT

  •  An All American Hero . . . Well . . . . ?? (0+ / 0-)

    Ahh . . . Hell . . . they are only AMERICAN jobs, right? This pattern has been overwhelming in the bush White House, and will continue with Mcbush!
    Mcbush has thrown away all measure of ethics to become president. We all need to work hard to assure that the TM starts seeing he is NO LONGER the maverick straight talker!

    "It has been astutely observed that any statement frequently repeated in public assumes the status of fact" -- 1972 Shafer Commission

    by ZeroVoices on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:25:44 PM PDT

  •  I would prefer these jobs used to build civilian (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    neroden, Bluesman48

    I respect the sad lose of jobs, and I've met good people at Boeing, I just wish we were not spending that money on military planes, and were giving work to Boeing to work on products for energy independence. I do applaud you're advocacy for Boeing and American workers. It's hard to pass up that kind of contract when it's in your area of expertise. It's a crime to give it to a foreign company! Still, can't we put our American workers to work solving our serious national and global issues?

    "It has been astutely observed that any statement frequently repeated in public assumes the status of fact" -- 1972 Shafer Commission

    by ZeroVoices on Tue May 13, 2008 at 07:34:54 PM PDT

  •  I don't get your angle here. (0+ / 0-)

    Sure all the blah blah patriotic stuff, well done there and all that, of course, but you didn't make clear how you and I will profit from . . . wait, is this not a Republican blog?  Oops.  Never mind.  I guess you Democrats really mean it when you talk about what is good for America.

    Thanks for the diary.  It's both grounded and inspiring.

    From Chile to China to Iraq, torture has been a silent partner in the global free-market crusade. - Naomi Klein

    by geomoo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:08:51 PM PDT

  •  We were in France... (0+ / 0-)

    at the home of Airbus, when the news came through. It's a McCain scandal, and the press never touched it.

    At some point, the MSM must be BURIED.

  •  This diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    areucrazy, Dauphin

    is bullshit.

    If we continue to accumulate only power and not wisdom, we will surely destroy ourselves. -Carl Sagan

    by LightningMan on Tue May 13, 2008 at 08:46:20 PM PDT

  •  Hi, Gov. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cactusflinthead

    You are welcome here. All progressive Dems, elected or not are welcome. Just to remind you and your writers, being welcome at DailyKos NEVER means your message is automatically accepted. If any part of it can be dissected or disputed, we are up to the challenge.

    I think you are doing a great job.  Congrats on out-fundraising your challenger by a mile!

    "War is the calculated and condoned slaughter of human beings". Harry Patch, age 109, WWI veteran.

    by skwimmer on Tue May 13, 2008 at 09:13:51 PM PDT

  •  How Ironic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cactusflinthead

    McCain helps tank the Boeing tanker deal, screwing Washington workers, and the flies into Seattle and lands at Boeing field.

  •  Unlimited Donations (0+ / 0-)

    a $33,100/plate event

    Not only is it disgusting that some people with $33,100 to spare can bribe a presidential candidate with it. One who has built his reputation to a great extent on campaign finance reform that he routinely violates.

    It's even more disgusting that most Americans are restricted to donating only $2300 to each of a primary and general campaign funds for a given candidate, unless we can get invited by the really rich and powerful to one of these platimum plate dinners.

    That kind of big-bore bribery should be completely illegal.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Tue May 13, 2008 at 10:44:47 PM PDT

  •  dumb arguments (0+ / 0-)
    1. Having been on both Boeing and Airbus planes a lot, Airbuses are nicer. Not that this is relevant when we're talking about military contracts, but still.
    1. The contract going to Airbus will create just as many jobs as the Boeing contract would. Just maybe not in Washington, but in places like Alabama that are really poor and really need them.
    1. I want McCain to lose as much as the rest of them. But attacking him because he fought the corruption of Boeing and the Bush administration is not valid. Let's attack him and campaign against him on the many valid reasons that exist.
  •  Sorry Gov. Gregoire, but the Boeing company (0+ / 0-)

    was corrupt and cheated on the contract first time around. It was then was beaten fairly in the second competition by a superior product.

    If you want to help the workers at Boeing, go after the crooks in charge of the company so that a new leadership can be put in place that cares about ethics and the rule of law.

    "Do not lie and do not do what you hate." (Gospel of Thomas) - quoted by Tom Fox
    ps. MD=Maryland

    by KJC MD on Wed May 14, 2008 at 02:23:19 AM PDT

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