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Fellow Obama supporters:

She didn't mean it.  There's absolutely no way she would have said that if she had any idea what she was saying.  The last thing she wanted or needed was a firestorm.  It's killing both her presidential and VP campaign all at once.  She just had no idea.

The Obama campaign has been classy about it.  Charitable, even.  And it's not the first time (think hard-working White Americans).  Obama's been charitable even though he hasn't always received charity himself (think Wright, Ayers, and of course bittergate).  That's why he's our guy.  He stays classy.

We need to follow his lead.  More after the fold...

So, just to take a second and address her comments.  Irresponsible?  Horribly.  Insensitive?  Hell yeah.  Revelatory of her secret or subconscious thoughts?  Maybe.  That would be on the mind of anybody next-in-line to the President - especially when it's a change agent, and most especially when it's a Black change agent.

Now, it's awful that she evoked the possibility of violence, which we're all aware of as a possibility, without immediately sharing how disturbed she is at the very idea of it.  No next-in-line could ever bring it up without doing that.  It would be horribly weird and kind of scary.

Therefore, I believe she just killed her status as next in line for the nomination, OR candidate to be VP.  Can you imagine ANYone going to Obama now and saying, "So, can we talk about the pluses of HRC as VP?"  Just too weird for someone to have that role who ever spoke casually about the history.

We don't need to call this out.  The media is on it and will not let go of it.  Many people are upset and will not forget this.  The supers get it.  There is absolutely no reason for us, as Obama supporters, to get involved.   There's no reason to turn this from a Hillary thing into a Hillary vs Barack thing.  

The best thing we can do is stay incredibly classy about it and represent exactly what's different about Obama.  At least, that's my vision.  Hope you liked it.

PS - I'm being a bit vague when I refer to political violence, because hyping past examples of high-profile violence/suicide can contribute to copycat behavior.  So it's not good to be too explicit or to dwell publicly on that kind of thing.

UPDATE: I'm kind of shocked how many people used the comments to trash Clinton.  This is not the diary for that.

See also Michael Lawrence Gallagher's beautifully written diary about the Obama campaign's response: Barack Obama: Amazing Grace

Originally posted to Matt Smith on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:43 AM PDT.


Best reason to stay classy on this:

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| 152 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Hillary can go to hell... (9+ / 0-)

    Sorry.  Just don't like her.

    Now I would like to post a picture of KO...

    "I'm a Muse, stupid!" -Serendipity in Dogma

    by Lava20 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 02:45:52 AM PDT

  •  Classy tip jar (38+ / 0-)

    I do think there's a decent way for her to turn the controversy around, actually.  I think if she apologized for what her remarks suggest, and suspended her presidential campaign in order to campaign for Obama as a show of her commitment to the party and its nominee, she'd come off looking pretty classy herself.  But then, I'm really into grand symbolic gestures.

  •  Oh Please. Cry me a River. (18+ / 0-)

    The poor thing didn't mean it. She's been victimized again. Misunderstood again. It's sexism, that's what it is. Women haters made her say this and misunderstand her.

    •  More practice for Her Royal CLintonness (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave, object16, kanuk, Krum, mnguy66

      to play the victim card.

      "Oh, the press is being sooooo mean to me"

      If she had left when she should have, this wouldn't be happening.

      I actually hope she has ruined her career.  Yeah, yeah, voting record shmoting record.

      Bye Hillary.

      -6.5, -7.59. John McSame - running for Bush's third term. We can't afford it.

      by DrWolfy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:19:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yup, you're basically right (0+ / 0-)

      except I don't know if it's sexism, but I think it's due to preconceived notions of her as being willing to say something outrageous, and when this story broke it fit right into people's preconceived notions of her. But it's absolutely shameless the way many people ride these frenzies.

    •  Bitter (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The same thing could be said for when Obama said the words bitter. He obviously misspoke. I don't recall Hillary or her campaign or her supporters being particularly classy about it. Rather, the piled on the media hysteria.

      Why shouldn't we do the same? She MOST certainly has earned it.

      And what do you think is more serious; calling someone bitter or hoping someone will be assassinated?

    •  Do you actually read post or just (4+ / 0-)

      use it as opportunity to jump on anyone who says anything slightly out of your orthodoxy of everything HRC is evil?  

      The poster made a compelling argument and did NOT say she's been victimized, misunderstood, or that it is sexism. He called her on her comments harshly and critically and said she just shot her chances at VP, never mind the nomination.

      I myself find this disqualifying for her - never mind she disqualified herself with her CiC comments months ago but this has sealed it and the media - yes the media so many DKos'ers do not trust - is burying her. The poster pointed out this need not be a HRC vs. Obama thing or HRC vs. Obama supporters thing. It does not help in getting HRC supporters when she concedes.

      We have a natural right to make use of our pens as of our tongue, at our peril, risk and hazard. Voltaire, Dictionnaire Philosophique, 1764

      by MMW on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:03:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I disagree with the basic premise of post (0+ / 0-)

        This part:

        She didn't mean it.  There's absolutely no way she would have said that if she had any idea what she was saying.

        That's the part where I think Clinton's playing victim, the "oh i didn't mean it."  I think it was calculated and she meant it, including the very worst implications. So I was disagreeing with diarist that it was simply some mistake (yet again) that we're supposed to be all nice about (yet again)

  •  No - we've turned the other cheek far too much nt (10+ / 0-)
  •  i have come to accept your stance also (8+ / 0-)

    I think what Obama is doing is perfect by not saying anything. I think the supports need to voice our displeasure but not to the point where we are in all out attack mode. Just my opinion.

  •  If that's the case... (7+ / 0-)

    she should have apologized properly. No need to make excuses for her. She should be able to excuse herself.

    •  exactly, (10+ / 0-)

      after her spokesperson's initial attempt to "explain it away" fell like a lead dirigible, she came out with a lame half-apology to the Kennedys only, omitting the Obamas entirely from the "apology" (which only lamented that her comment was taken wrong), and that was only after the entire media went ballistic on her, including her ardent supporters.

      No quarter now.  Just a few days ago I was making this same argument on this site.  No more.  She and her clique need to be taken down from their perch where they have been shitting profusely on us, because they have proven that they don't have the integrity to step down voluntarily.

      "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." -Nancy Pelosi, 6/29/07.

      by nailbender on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:11:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ummm, no. (15+ / 0-)

    You are fooling yourself if you think she didn't mean it. She meant exactly what she said, which is, that one of her rationales for staying in the race is that Obama could get killed RFK style. She's obviously thought about it, and wants to be in position to capitalize on it should it happen.

    It does not matter if she wants Obama dead or not. What matters is that she is only running because "something might happen" which is hardly a justification for a campaign as divisive and negative as hers.

    There is a dark soul inside that woman...a deep pain that has turned her into a hard, crude, despicable human being. She's Ellsworth Toohey.

    No sir. Now is the time to pile on and destroy her and everything she represents.

    I'm black, and therefore automatically vote exclusively for black candidates. You're white and choose only based on the issues.

    by brooklynbadboy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:06:28 AM PDT

    •  You are correct (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alizard, rb608

      Those that ascribe altruistic characteristics to Hillary are deluding themselves. She is capable of doing or saying anything to win. Is this not the antithesis of the Obama campaign?

      Getting rid of Hillary is like getting rid of a Vampire you are never quite sure if they are gone until you drive the figurative steak through their hart. If she where to pullout tomorrow I would not even want r to campaign for Obama because of the underhanded damage she would cause on the campaign trail imagine:

      "I think you should vote for Obama even though i would have been a better candidate"

    •  and no one else here has thought the same thing? (0+ / 0-)

      I mean, seriously, if no one here has flashed back when they're listening to a young charismatic speaker energizing young and old alike...c'mon.

      Sure she's thought it.  Sure her handlers have evoked the Summer of '68.  Sure it was a stupid move to utter it aloud.  But for Chrissake, she's so delusion on so many other counts I just think this is one of the many many many reasons she needs to drop out (after she lost Texas) and take a very long nap.

      Only because I still have faith in humanity do I not attribute her comment as some kind of wishful thinking.  There's something to be said for not beating a completely and utterly dead horse.  

      Now if the supporters can refrain from the (ohmigod i'm sure it's already started) charges of sexism maybe my ire will stay checked.

      The revolution will be live

      by tinfoilhat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:57:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "She's not a bad person, just a stupid one." (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shockwave, tinfoilhat, Matt Smith, soms

    That's about as classy as one can get about this.
    Clueless. Dumb. Numbnuts (all three of them). Jimmy Choo-in-mouth disease. Brain dead. Flatlining. Gorked.

    She really is the Democratic W. Bush. Except, as he's been elected twice, even dumber.

  •  That's what I thought at first (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peraspera, Overseas, rb608, soms, fortuna

    I even posted she must have been tired, repeated a comment someone else made...

    Then I heard the non-apology. No, this was HER unconscious hope.

    You have to think like they do. They believe Obama is a fad, a phenom, who can't win and will soon disappear. They don't wish him bad things, just wish him gone like the other "David..." on American Idol. They don't understand him or politics today.

    If she did, she would have apologized TO HIM, not to the Kennedys.

    •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

      I think it may well have been, shall we say, too much on her mind... or too comfortable in her mind, consciously or not.  I agree that she owes an apology to Obama for speaking casually about something like that.  I mean, like I said in my tip jar, I think the most adequate apology would be to drop out as a gesture of sincerity and solidarity, now that her unfortunate comment has raised a question about both.

  •  He already told us what to do. (8+ / 0-)

    This stuff is unfortunate and has no place in the campaign.

    Exactly right. The above statement was seen as offensive to some Hillary supporters. It is beyond stupid.

    Your diary is exactly the right approach and also the winning approach. Lets take our cues from Obama. Think how we would feel in Clinton supporter shoes. Forgive but also be forewarned.

    Obama should inspire us to take the higher ground.

  •  I think that this is perfect symmetry... (3+ / 0-)

    I think that if you view the full video, that she's just mashing together talking points, and, with the 40th anniversary of Bobby Kennedy's assassination in her hopper, she tossed it in at the absolute wrong place and time.

    That being said, as much as she's lived by the sword (of conflating and distorting inartfully put statements of her opponents into 'scandals'), she'll now probably be on the other end of that famous phrase (which I won't use for fear of the Hillaryis44 crowd accusing me of advocating senator-cide).

    •  so what was the excuse... (0+ / 0-)

      for her same comment in March?  And the more oblique references after the West Virginia/Indiana primaries?

      Just askin'.

      •  I'm not sayin' that she hasn't been throwing... (0+ / 0-)

        the kitchen sink, and in this case, having the handle bounce back and hit her in the head, but I think, if you read the exact quotes in the other cases, at least the ones that I've read, that she was slightly more coherent and less open to interpretation in the way she's getting bashed.  And in some ways, it serves her right, as she jumped on and distorted every sound bite she could distort to make the case that BHO was not ready from Prime Time.

  •  it doesn't matter if she "meant it" (7+ / 0-)

    first, she had many other references that would have actually been valid re: late primary runs.

    second, she had used this twisted one before, in march, so the lie about the kennedies being on her mind is just grotesque.

    so it was obvious she was just trying to say something false in a way that seemed to ring true to make a point.

    so it doesn't matter if she meant it in the worst light.  it was still despicable.  and suspect enough to warrant an apology. therefore...

    third, her attempt to offer regrets by placing the burden of being offended on anyone who might have been offended instead of herself just adds to how sick she is.

    give me a break.  if you  want to advocate class, advocate that she show some and try offering a frank apology for uttering something so careless. even if the worst interpretation is far from her intent, the carelessness alone, not to mention the weak spin attempt it represented in the first place, warrant that much.

    that would be class.

    instead, i bet we get another teary eyed bit, after it's dragged out of her, and then only after she is reminded that the last time she got weepy she got a boost.


  •  Hillary is the candidate who said the (9+ / 0-)

    words.  Until Hillary apologizes to Obama and his family wholeheartedly, I can not accept your diary.  Hillary is the one running for President.  Make no mistake about what she said.  I am deeply saddened by her comments.  Too saddened to be angry.  From the words of Hillary Clinton, "I didn't mean for anyone to be offended by what I said,".  Hardly an apology.  She never said sorry!!!!

    •  Yeah (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rb608, soms

      That is a great point. She is incapable of saying it I think because she is still waiting for Bill to say sorry for  Blue dress glazing.

    •  Agreed... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JTML, kanuk, rb608

      Most charitable explanation: "She was tired, didn't mean it, had Kennedy on her mind, blah blah blah".

      Fine, then apologize not just to the Kennedys, not just to "anyone who might be offended" (which we know is a non-apology), and to OBAMA.

      Until then, she's dead to me (still - has been since "White working Americans")

      -6.5, -7.59. John McSame - running for Bush's third term. We can't afford it.

      by DrWolfy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:25:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I largely agree with you... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rb608, Send Rahm a Cheesecake

    and it was nice of her to knock herself out of VP consideration, too.

    The only question I have about it is this: Is it merely a kerfuffle, or will it turn into a full-on imbroglio?

    And please, media, don't call it "assassination-gate."

    The whole "gate" thing's been done to, well, um, death.

  •  appeasing more Hillary comments (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


  •  Indeed, she's being piled on at the moment (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WisVoter, rb608

    but as I've often thought when going through an Obama 'tough time' (Wright, bitter etc.), 'this too shall pass'.  Silly mistake though. Not only is it now highly unlikely (though not impossible) she'll make VP, but IF something were to happen to Obama (god forbid) I don't see, even as the runner up, that she could step up and take his place.  Would have to be Edwards. Or Richardson. But not Clinton. There'd be an uproar now IMO.

  •  Personally I think this is crazy (9+ / 0-)

    I watched Olberman's Special Comment about this whole issue and I am pretty disappointedin his reporting on this issue. In reality the media is making a big deal about only one word that she used--assassination. I am a huge Obama supporter, I have been very disappointed in the way Hillary has run her campaign, and I think Olberman is right on the money on 95% of what he reports. But last night he clearly went too far.

    Hillary has made historical reference to RFK's assassination many times in the past--whether she used that one word or not is irrelavant because--and I think we would all agree--the context is what's important. She was not using this example to somehow imply that any of the remaining candidates could be killed. The point she was making was that the nomination for the Democratic party has gone well into June many times before in highly contested contests, so why is the media trying to end this year's contest prematurely. Olberman even pointed out her other references to this exact same point in history and they were all used in this same context.

    I think Hillary should have dropped out (suspend) long ago when it was just as clear then that she had no real chance. But I definitely don't agree with how the media is treating this one word because they are taking it completely out of context.

    With sacrifice comes rewards. Have YOU thanked a veteran today?

    by Matt from Iraq on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:17:46 AM PDT

    •  Problem with this line of thinking... (8+ / 0-)

      this example to somehow imply that any of the remaining candidates could be killed. The point she was making was that the nomination for the Democratic party has gone well into June many times before in highly contested contests,

      In the races she cites, it wasn't over and big states remained.

      Now, there are 86 pledged delegates left.  WAY different situation.

      And - as to the media.  They love a shitstorm and she just gave them one.  

      The piling on is sad and reflects how crappy our 4th estate is.  However, she brought it on herself with gutter politics.

      Bring it on.  Let it ruin her career so she can take the DLC with her.

      -6.5, -7.59. John McSame - running for Bush's third term. We can't afford it.

      by DrWolfy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:28:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Bitter (7+ / 0-)

      Obama got a lot more attention for his use of the words "bitter" and "cling".  His was a genuinely harmless statement - her was not.  Perhaps the media is overblowing HRCs remarks, but they have done so before and it would be unfair for them to not run her through the wringer on this one.

    •  Bittergate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      But I definitely don't agree with how the media is treating this one word because they are taking it completely out of context.

      The media has to try to be fair. When the media went overboard in criticizing Obama for saying "bitter", they surely have to go after hillary for using the word "assassinate" in the wrong context.

      And what do you think is worse? Saying the word bitter or insinuating that someone will be assassinated?

      The media is doing its job.

      •  I just want it all to stop (0+ / 0-)

        The media gets stuck trying to sort out who is right, when the real issue has nothing to do with who at all. The media gets caught cheerleading for a particular candidate instead of helping us figure out what is right. This isn't about who is right, it's about what is right.

        With sacrifice comes rewards. Have YOU thanked a veteran today?

        by Matt from Iraq on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:06:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  here here (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Rarely do I think KO goes over board, but sheesh.   His special comment was so damned harsh it bordered on embarassing.

      The revolution will be live

      by tinfoilhat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:05:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree with you ... (0+ / 0-)

      ... on this statement:

      She was not using this example to somehow imply that any of the remaining candidates could be killed. The point she was making was that the nomination for the Democratic party has gone well into June many times before in highly contested contests

      But am I the only one who finds it a bit bizarre to be using the RFK assassination as a mnemonic device for remembering long-running primaries?

      "Sen. Clinton's support among hard-working Americans, male Americans, is weakening again." - How would they have reacted if Barack Obama had said this?

      by runngdog on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:17:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with you. She has been getting ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    KibbutzAmiad, WisVoter, soms

    too much coverage/

    Let's move our attention to the GE...and McSame.

    We should all ignore Hillary from now on.  She is like a kid throwing tantrums.  Enough.

    •  That is what happens when you show (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      no class, eventually you get treated that way.  Karma, Karma, Karma.  Obama knows this, he is nothing but classy.  Especially during the Wright fiasco, he stayed classy.  Hillary has never been about class, it is about how she is owed it, it is stolen from her.  She is absolutely wicked and a bigger liar than Bill.  But they go on and lie there way out of lies into bigger lies and deeper lies.  With the Clinton's you never really know where they stand, because they stand in doing whatever it takes to win, even if it means doing and saying the most despicable things.  

    •  You can't ignore her (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      If you do, then all her idiotic statements will stand as if they are true. Examples are that Obama is sexist, Hillary is winning the popular vote, Hillary has always been arguing that MI and FL should be counted.

      You simply cannot make the same mistake that Kerry made. You have to respond. Even to a despicable person such as Hillary.

  •  I have no sympathy for Hillary and the (7+ / 0-)

    terrible things Hillary has said and done during this campaign.  This week she was planning demonstrations in front of the DNC credentials committee. She acted in the media like she was being disenfranchised by the Democratic Party by the very rules she agreed to.

    Nothing Hillary said has been but to help herself get elected, and in the most of underhanded ways.  And then to pretend to apologize, but not apologize.  Like to say, I am sorry some people were offended, but not be sorry for what she said, means that what she said was no accident, and she is not sorry!

  •  Yes. Recommended. (4+ / 0-)

    The intensity and size of the reaction to her very ill-chosen comment is way out of proportion IMO.  Yes, it was a horrible thing to say.  But come on people, get a grip.

  •  What could be classier than using Osama bin Laden (8+ / 0-)

    in an ad against a fellow Democrat?

    Where's that piece of paper I had in my hand yesterday? -- Miranda Priestley

    by BA BarackUS on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:30:22 AM PDT

  •  When does HRC's classiness kick in? (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    peraspera, kanuk, poe, Overseas, mnguy66, Snowcat

    I've been waiting the whole campaign to see it.

    Northern Illinois University: Kate's and Matt's parents meet, 1976

    by chicago minx on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:33:17 AM PDT

  •  I'm not an outrage sort of guy, (5+ / 0-)

    so this doesn't outrage me.  Don't get me wrong, I think it was pretty poor taste to raise the specter of assassination, even if it was not intended (watching the video, I'm not convinced it was).

    However, I do feel that those that were particularly shocked by the statements should be able to vent about it.

    That said, I agree with the notion that in the end this statement was a gift to the Obama campaign because not only was it a gaffe that will make it hard to win support from more super delegates, but it will give them plausible deniability in the eyes of more people if and when they don't give Clinton the VP slot.

    Basically it makes the nomination easier and gives them more freedom to choose a VP without some sort of propaganda battle with Clinton supporters.  But that doesn't mean that those who were genuinely offended by the remarks shouldn't speak out, though I'm never a fan of manufactured outrage, which I feel is overly prevalent in politics.

    Obama/奥巴马/オバマ/오바마 2008

    by Meng Bomin on Sat May 24, 2008 at 03:35:23 AM PDT

  •  I'm not getting classy yet (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kanuk, mnguy66, MantisOahu, Zebras

    I want this to be big enough to kill any possibility of Hillary becoming VP. Once this is done, I'll get classy.

  •  Funny how people are piling on (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Overseas, rb608, Snowcat, Fairy Tale, Zebras

    Obama supporters for being outraged by this, but Hillary phony outrage over MI and FL no big deal.  

    •  Wrong! (0+ / 0-)

      Of course that's a big deal.  It's ridiculous.  

      I'm not piling on.  I'm an Obama supporter myself.  But do I have higher standards for Obama and co?  Absolutely.  That's why Obama will be the nominee -- because he's SO much better than that.

  •  I wish I could (8+ / 0-)

    I really wish I could take the high road on this - but the terror and desperation that sent chills into my soul at HRC's words cannot be so easily put aside.  Once before I watched as the brightest spark of a presidential campaign was taken, and all my best hopes and dreams went with him.  I've been politcially inactive for 40 years because of it.  Barack Obama, indeed, gave me back my hope and belief in the idea that things could change.  HRC's awful and monstrous comment - whatever her intent - brought back all that devastation.  And she doesn't even have the authenticity to say she's sorry.  Her "If anyone was offended, I regret it" was a long way from an apology.  IF? Does she really believe there is anyone with a conscience who WASN'T offended?  The only way I could even begin to forgive this is if she were to issue a truly selfless and contrite APOLOGY, taking responsibility for what she said, for the darkness she brought back to the American psyche, to acknowledge her grevious error and to ask - even BEG the American people for forgiveness.  I'm a big believer in accountability, and until she shows she knows the meaning of the word, I'm afraid I don't have it in me to be anything other than horrified and terrified and deeply, deply angry.  That's not 'classy.'  But it's the truth.

  •  Her Classy Apology.... (8+ / 0-)

    was delivered with a similarly disturbing lack of empathy or conviction of any sort.  It seemed mere lip service, with no real sincerity.

    As a psychiatrist, I wanted to chalk this unfortunate incident up to a trivial Freudian slip of the tongue....a simple verbal and unintentional revelation of HRC's subconscious violent fantasies towards her opponent....

    I am not so sure now.  I used to view her with simple pity, but now I view her more so as a high functioning sociopath who craves power and lacks the ability to comprehend the true wrongness of her words or actions.

    As a political animal driven by coldblooded ambition, I believe she is aware of the meaning of her words and feeks no remorse for pain they may have caused.

    Unlike her opponent, she represents the very worst in all of us.  

    My 2 cents,,,,,,peace,

  •  She meant every word of it. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rb608, MantisOahu
  •  Agreed (4+ / 0-)

    I think there was a psychology of the masses at this point where Obama supporters were looking for the "last straw" statement. Maybe even some Clinton supporters as well, looking for a way out of backing her. While it was a very inartful and tactless way of expressing the disingenuous point she was trying to make, it does seem to be generating a much more heightened reaction than you think it would. I've been posting on this site for 4 years and I've never seen anything like this reaction.

    We need the Clintons. Not for VP. We need the Clintons held in good standing because their 8 years of fiscal management stands in stark contrast to what the Republicans have done to this country for 20 of the last 28 years. It is in our interest to care about their legacy. It is apparent that we care about their legacy more than they do.

    Politics for many of us is part entertainment. I've realized that the part of me that has watched Senator Clinton (I am actually getting tired of referring to her by her first name, like its Bono or   Sting) fail miserably and found it compelling is the  same part of me that a a New York Yankee fan, use to take delight in watching their opponents fail miserably. Damn the death of the "Curse of the Bambino". She is such a tragic figure and the story of the Clinton's is amazing. I don't think an epic novelist could come up with characters as rich in  virtues and flaws as they are.  

    She has done all she could to earn our indifference to her campaign. Let's give it to her.  

  •  Compare her reaction to "bitter" (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annan, rb608, mmiddle, JackieandFritz, Snowcat

    She understood what Obama was saying and so did all of her supporters yet we all remember their reaction.  Yet in a much more serious statement, Obama supporters are suppose to ignore it because she didn't mean it?

  •  We've got the nomination... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Smith

    Forgiving this gaff set the right tone of forgiveness for those out there who believe Obama's "claws come out"  and "periodically when she's feeling down"  comments were intentional.

    I don't believe Obama's were intentional but we need to play it cool.  Be the bigger (Wo)man.  Build good will.   This will all be over soon

  •  The problem is, she's become such a caricature (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annan, Matt Smith

    I don't think she meant she was staying in the race in the hopes that Obama would get assassinated, or trying to scare people into supporting her over Obama -- or that her comment was even a Freudian slip broadcasting the dark secret nursed in her heart of hearts.

    She was looking for examples of contests that were still undecided in June, but she couldn't find any that didn't end up costing us the election! 1980 & 1984 are terrible examples. So she chooses the examples of her husband (two-term president) and RFK (beloved figure).

    If Edwards or someone else had said it, I don't think anyone would care that much, after an apology had been issued -- even Huckabee got a pass (I don't think he meant anything either) -- because they don't have the image of being unhinged and power-hungry.

    Even before her comment, people were joking about Obama's needing a food-taster if Hillary were his VP. So, it's just unbelievably tone-deaf of her as a politician, and tactless and insensitive as a human being, to evoke RFK.

    But she doesn't understand Obama and never has. She doesn't understand what a transformative figure Obama is to his supporters or how AAs live in fear that something bad will happen to Obama. She's too egocentric.

  •  She was tired... BUT: here's the thing -- (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annan, mmiddle, TexasTwister

    When you're exhausted, the brain simplifies itself and the thoughts become flatter, more basic.  

    What we saw yesterday -- both in Clinton's quote and in online diggers' ability to find past examples where she'd mentioned or alluded to the RFK tragedy -- was that the 1968 RKF assassination is very much on Hillary's mind in context of her current contest against Obama.

    And what we saw yesterday is that, when she gets tired, she forgets.  Forgets to dress that event up in its "tragedy" costume.  She had remembered to do that, the past several times she had invoked the RFK assassination.  But when she got tired yesterday, she forgot to dress it in its "tragedy" descriptor.  So what came across is that for her, the possibility of such an event is not primarily tragic.  It's tactical, strategic.  And it was the tired but tactical, strategic, calculating part of her brain that casually floated out the RFK assassination as the kind of thing that could and can happen in June.  With June coming up.

    She did not in any way advocate for such an event, and I'd like to think she does not wish it.  But she revealed a naked readiness and willingness to act on it tactically.  That is what slipped out yesterday when "she was tired."

  •  I'm for totally ignoring this matter (0+ / 0-)

    But not because of the reasons you stated.
    I'm for it because of what Al Giordano said.

    •  I'm for making this her Rev. Wright (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rb608, Snowcat

      Especially since Obama had to spend a month explaining his relationship with him while the Clinton's haven't had to spend 10 seconds explaining their relationship with him. You would think after she said, "I would have left" his church, that someone might have questioned why he was invited to the Clinton White House as spiritual counsel. No more free passes.

      '1984': "Big Brother is watching you". 2008: You're going to end up on YouTube.

      by jhecht on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:47:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Clinton Derangement Syndrome now bi-partisan! N/T (0+ / 0-)

    I voted with my feet. Good Bye and Good Luck America!!

    by shann on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:18:33 AM PDT

  •  Hell No (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rb608, TexasTwister, Snowcat

    The Clinton campain pushed the Rev.Wright, Ayres, and bitter comments to the superdelegates, so why should she get a break? Because her supporters are going to be mad? Hell they should be mad at what came out of her mouth more than once. If they didn't have such an underhanded campain, I would just let it go but Hell No. I have gone to Taylor Marsh, and MYDD and read all the bullshit that these people promote against another democrat. I have read the crap that Taylor Marsh writes when trying to find any word or action that Barack does for them to try and build Hillary up with even saying one thing about the dirt that the Clinton people do. Why should we just let this go and say well she really didn't mean it. I think she really did but she didn't mean to say it. I know the primary is almost over but these sites especially Taylor Marsh is still spewing hate for Obama and how sexist he is...They can go to hell.

  •  What? No more sympathy. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It's killing both her presidential and VP campaign all at once.  She just had no idea.

    It has killed her campaign from the beginning. If she ahd no idea, that puts her in the W category. Sorry, no sympathy here. She did it all to herself, with no help from me, nor any of the other non-Hillary Dems.
    She, and her brand of politics and pandering are disgusting. Good riddance!

    Hillary has become our Ron Paul.

    by Krum on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:32:52 AM PDT

  •  She's gotten a free pass this entire campaign (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    alizard, rb608, Snowcat

    I could add a dozen others to what KO listed last night. E-nough!

    '1984': "Big Brother is watching you". 2008: You're going to end up on YouTube.

    by jhecht on Sat May 24, 2008 at 04:43:12 AM PDT

  •  The general farrago over this and Olbermann's (0+ / 0-)

    special comment, in particular, rather reminded me of this

  •  no way (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rb608, Snowcat

    If she is so smart and presidential, then how could she not know how her comment would be misconstrued?  This is a woman who was "mislead" by the Bush administration on WMD too.  So there are two choices either she knew exactly what she was saying about the assassination and she knew that there were no WMD but voted for the war anyway because it was politically expedient OR she is stupid.  

    * 4081 *

    by BDA in VA on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:22:06 AM PDT

  •  This reminds me of the old south polite company (0+ / 0-)

    rules that prohibited discussing the "Negro problem" in proper society.

    eschew obfuscation

    by jimG on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:25:53 AM PDT

  •  Sorry, but she did mean it. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Snowcat, larryww

    She did not wish ill toward Obama, perhaps; but she meant exactly what she said.  And I know this because she's said it before.  She needs to stay in because her opponent might be assassinated.  That's exactly what she said, and that's exactly what she meant.  She's jumped the shark.  She has to go now.

    When the oak is felled the whole forest echoes with its fall, but a hundred acorns are sown in silence by an unnoticed breeze. -Thomas Carlyle

    by rb608 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 05:29:52 AM PDT

    •  No she didnt (0+ / 0-)

      You want her to have meant it, but she didnt.  It has nothing to do with assassination, killing Obama, etc, etc.  If you believe she, after spending her life's work defending and supporting children since the 70s, really is this callous, then heaven help you should you ever faux pas in your life...

      BTW, Newsweek has Hillary outpolling McCain and even Obama vs McCain...she's not going anywhere.  So sorry.

      Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -- Mark Twain.

      by dcrolg on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:10:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Then why? (0+ / 0-)

        Why has she said it more than once?  It was no slip of the tongue or an unguarded moment.  This hasn't a damned thing to do with anything else she's done for children or anyone else, this is about acknowledging that very callousness you suggest.  Yeah, because of Bobby and Jack and Martin and Malcolm, those of us old enough do have that worry in the back of our minds; but to come out and offer it as a rationale for staying in the race?  Sorry, but no; that's exactly what she said.

        When the oak is felled the whole forest echoes with its fall, but a hundred acorns are sown in silence by an unnoticed breeze. -Thomas Carlyle

        by rb608 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 08:52:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I have to agree with you. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    When the offended party (Obama) is willing to forgive, then the rest of us need also to forgive. Mr. Olbermann included...

    Clinton certainly misspoke, but she didn't say anything that people aren't already thinking privately. And crossed a line by giving voice to that thought.

    Obama is a class act and it is time to move on from this. John McCain is the real enemy here.

    •  Agreed. Understandable but still offensive. (0+ / 0-)

      There are lots of situations in which a person may think, "If only ___ would just disappear, my problems would be over." May be your spouse, your in-laws, your problem neighbor, your boss, your boss's boss, Dick Cheney (how many comments have I read here wishing his pacemaker would fail or something like that?), or whoever. It's not an uncommon thought. But most people realize it's inappropriate, and would NEVER say it out loud, much less in front of a TV camera.

      The question isn't "did she mean it?" I take her at her word that all she meant was "sometimes unexpected things happen during campaigns, and having a back-up candidate would be a good thing," or just the "June's not too late" thing she claims.

      Intent doesn't really matter here. As a public figure -- a VERY public figure -- you're supposed to understand that predictable responses are the same as "intended" responses.

      To not realize how toxic it would be is sheer tone-deafness. I assume that if McCain made some "off-hand" comment about other powerful women who'd been brutally raped, the Hillary folks would (rightfully) be all over the airwaves crying sexism. To not realize that "assassination" is way too loaded a word, especially when referring to a person of color, means she does not have the judgment to be President.

  •  Evil Hillary dog-whistles her squad... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Matt Smith

    ...of shotgun totin', tomater flinging redneck assassins.

    Her remarks were graceless, that's all, not a coded command to the grassy knoll.

    I hope this is the last gasp of the hysterical anti-Hillary jive. It's obvious that Obama is winning this, and the high dudgeon from the liberal faint-o-sphere is a tiresome pose by people who have no call to act so desperate. It makes us Obama supporters seem like twerps.

    Just when it seemed everybody was calming down, we get this plotzfest.

    I'm the plowman in the valley - with my face full of mud

    by labradog on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:00:35 AM PDT

  •  Highly disciplined politician or... (0+ / 0-)

    complete idiot.  Which is it?

    John McCain: A weak old man. | Hillary Clinton: A monstrous liar whose hubris and bigotry destroyed her reputation.

    by The Dead Man on Sat May 24, 2008 at 06:38:47 AM PDT

  •  What if (0+ / 0-)

    a reporter asked Dick Cheney, "You have a weak heart, isn't the VP job stressful, why don't you resign?"
    and he says, "remember John Kennedy was assasinated in November of 1963."

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." -Plato

    by Snickers77 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 07:19:35 AM PDT

  •  She DID mean it (0+ / 0-)

    No, I don't believe that she wants harm to come to Obama, but the reference was deliberate. That's why she said it twice.

  •  We'll Get Classy When She Gets Classy-Never (0+ / 0-)

    What a waste of a diary.  Hillary meant it and I despise her.

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