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Remember the Trojan Horse? Achilles was dead and the ten-year Trojan War was at a stalemate when Odysseus sent the Greek ships into hiding so it appeared they’d given up. He presented a big wooden horse as a gift—a peace offering—leaving it in front of the city walls of Troy. Fascinated, believing they’d finally won, the Trojans dragged the startling creature into their city and celebrated. Inside the horse, however, were Greek soldiers who slipped out of it’s belly and destroyed Troy from within.

Fact or legend? Doesn’t matter: the symbolism should put us on our guard. We’ve been warned of late that McCain trolls out are out and about. They’re easy enough to spot, spouting their Republican talking points. What's more difficult, and more insidious are the infiltrators who lay low and try and fit in, doing their business in a quite a different way. I say this not to be awarded a tin hat or drummed out of the dialogue for my paranoia, but because I think it’s worth considering that DailyKos has undoubtedly been infiltrated by clever PsychOps types who aren’t going about things in an obvious way.

This diary started as a response in a post about Rush Limbaugh smiling. It grew from a comment I made that several people told me should be turned into a diary. Here’s what I said:

I think Rush is smiling because he's succeeded in getting people like "us" saying things like, "there's no difference between Rush and Hillary".... I was over at Taylor Marsh last night for awhile, reading. It was a startling, shocking, sad kind of experience. When I was done, the only way I could make sense of the hatred coming off the page was to think about the Right Wing and how odd it was to see people proclaiming to be Democrats acting just like Right Wing extremists. I've experienced the same thing here too, some of the hatred is breathtaking. I believe it's kind of like a disease and it's contagious. It's also like a Trojan horse was pushed into our midst. It's very strange. It's a kind of mob mentality, really, like a public execution when everyone starts throwing excrement at the "criminals."

I'm afraid that people like Rush have poisoned the well and drove us all mad. Seriously. The lies that get said on both sides—the spin, the vicious exaggerations, half truths, non truths—are not what I expected from my fellow "liberal" and "progressive" friends.

Those who support Hillary and hate Obama are rabid, it seems. And those who hate Hillary and support Obama are becoming more so all the time.

I've been holding out for quite awhile now, thinking about the fact that at one point Hillary apparently said that even a "refrigerator" could beat the Republicans this year, but as the hatred—the cries for revenge, the concept of getting even at the ballot box by voting, not for, but against, the desire to destroy the other candidate—builds, I wonder.

I'm worried that the Republicans, especially Rove and his gang, are privately laughing their heads off about the success of their little venture.

I say this because I think that many of the voices writing here and on Hillary's blogs are really stealth -- Trojan Horses -- spreading the hate, like the way the FBI infiltrated the radical movements in the sixties and promoted violence, essentially stirring the pot, getting everyone primed for doing violence. I mean, it's classic strategy. It's called divide and conquer.

A couple of nights ago I wrote a diary about Bobby Kennedy. That's really where all this began for me. It took me back to seeing him, to remembering his assassination, to the recognition of loss and lost opportunity. It was especially amazing listening to him talk to a crowd of his supporters the night Martin Luther King was shot. Among other things he said:

In this difficult day, in this difficult time for the United States, it's perhaps well to ask what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in.
...

We have to make an effort in the United States, we have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond these rather difficult times.
...

What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness, but is love and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or whether they be black.

I'm offering the video again, because Bobby's talking about hatred and the choice we're presented with when bad things happen. His words, even after forty years, have really got me thinking, remembering why it was I thought him an exceptional being.

In the spring of 1970—barely two years after Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King had been assassinated, a little over a year into Nixon’s administration, the National Guard fired on the students at Kent State, killing several, shedding the blood of unarmed young people who were simply exercising their right of free speech. I was outraged. So were others: demonstrations exploded across the country.

I was living in Detroit at the time, in college at Merrill-Palmer Institute. I made my way to an S.D.S. meeting. (Students for a Democratic Society, a militant anti-war group) at nearby Wayne State University. The campus was covered with flyers announcing the gathering—it's purpose, to discuss options of response to the outrage.

I don’t know what I expected, but certainly not the gun-totting, Red Book quoting fanatics who were running the show. Scruffy-looking white guys dressed with military flair, thrusting Mao’s Red Book into the air and shouting, "This is a tool!" Brandishing automatic rifles, and shouting, "This, too, is a tool!"

I was sitting on the floor in a large room, filled to overflowing with young people. I averted my eyes as they spoke, hoping no one would notice me. I was afraid if they did, if the guys with the guns really took a close look at me, it would be obvious I was no savvy radical ready to take up arms. I was afraid of their anger and their desire for violence. I was angry; I wanted the world to change, but I didn't really want to shoot people or see people shot.

It was strange, but what's even stranger is that to this day, I have no idea if I was at a meeting with "real" S.D.S. leaders or if I was experiencing the results of the FBI’s Counter-Intelligence Program, Cointelpro, in action.

Launched in the Cold War 1950s, Cointelpro was intended to, according to the FBI, "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize the activities of black nationalists, hate-type organizations and groups, their leadership, membership, and supporters." By the FBI’s hazy definition, "hate-type organizations" could include just about anyone who threatened the status quo–the Black Panthers and Communists, of course, but also anti-Vietnam peaceniks, labor leaders, and Native American groups. These "subversives" were to be secretly investigated and their activities disrupted.

I'm not trying to say that the S.D.S. wasn't militant all by itself. I'm just pointing to the fact that many of these groups were infiltrated and, among other things, encouraged to be violent. These were the days of J. Edgar Hoover, and it wasn’t until years later, after documents were released under the Freedom of Information Act, that we understood how thoroughly and methodically and successfully the student peace movement had been corrupted by undercover agents working exactly to that end.

So. Am I expecting gun totting crazies to show up on DKOS? No, not exactly. But, we do know that the neocons use American tax payers money to present  government propaganda as news. We know they use the major networks to sell their propaganda. We know they stage events to make it look like certain things happened, which really didn't. And we know that the military, like John McCain, has started hiring bloggers to spread their propaganda.

All I'm saying, here, is heads up! The next time you see right wing talking points coming from a Hillary supporter, hurled in such a way to make your teeth grind with hatred, ask yourself if you're sure the person on the other end of the insult is really a 58-year-old feminist who has just lost her mind. Maybe it's someone pretending to be, and maybe they're doing it with the hopes of setting your teeth on edge and filling you with hatred. Maybe returning the insult, or hurling your own freshly baked ones, is not the way to win the election this fall. (I say that because maybe part of the goal is for DKOS to be more like Bill O'Reily wants us to be—hatefilled—so we'll be less effective, scaring people the same way the S.D.S. scared me.)

Maybe some people are spreading lies, causing confusion and chaos—on purpose. Maybe they're even getting paid to do it. Maybe they're part of some 527 political action group. Maybe they're friends of Karl Rove's. Maybe some of what's going on around here is a little like the example Patrick Fiztgerald gave when he compared himself to an umpire who, while attempting to determine whether a pitcher intentionally hit a batter, had sand thrown in his eyes. Remember that?

Remind yourself, you can't know for sure what's going on, and that there are people out there who like to play games with your head—many for political reasons.

I just want to keep the people who believe in progressive causes, who believe in a woman's right to choice and in ending the war and bringing about economic justice in this country, on the same page—not fighting each other, but fighting the common enemy. And one last thing, in that other diary, the one about Bobby Kennedy, I said that

I realized this morning just how deeply I have been moved by the youth coming out for Obama, and how much I don’t want them to experience what I experienced back then, including the election of a cynically dishonest Richard Nixon (who brought many of the neocons who have served Bush into power).

Originally posted to Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:50 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The diary done a few days ago (9+ / 0-)

    that showed how few posters are posting the vast majority of hate posts at hillary44 support your theory.

    "Evil is a lack of empathy, a total incapacity to feel with their fellow man." - Capt. Gilbert

    by KingGeorgetheTurd on Tue May 27, 2008 at 05:53:45 AM PDT

  •  it's time to heal the wounds (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tinfoil Hat, gabriella, KjunLady, redtex

    to realize our mission is bigger than ourselves.
    words have been said. feelings hurt. but in the end it makes us stronger. we have a base of operations in all 50 states. we have the message of change and a new direction. we must do this. it's not a game. it's not a team sport of our side vs. theirs. it's a fight for the future. we cannot in no uncertain terms let the neocons continue their agenda.

  •  Interesting premise, (13+ / 0-)

    and it doesn't hurt to remember,
    "just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you".

    Nothing can stand in the way of the power of millions of voices calling for change... Yes, we can!

    by Lisa Lockwood on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:02:52 AM PDT

  •  Good job - recommended (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gabriella, Youffraita, redtex
  •  I think we should all just give John McCain... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Crashing Vor, redtex, loralei

    a chance to tell us what he thinks.  We don't want to demonize the man.  He is a war hero after all.

    Be open to what he has to say.  

    He is not George W. Bush, and he really did not say that we should be in Iraq for 100 years.  His words were taken out of context.  

    Let's hear him out.

  •  whether the pro-HRC posters are genuine (11+ / 0-)

    or not, responding to insults with insults really doesn't do any good.

    Brush 'em off.  Move on.  Obama has.

    •  However.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Circle

      ...part of the aim is to sow false impressions, false facts and create the sense that some delusion is actually an accurate representation of how many feel, which is then picked up by the4 talking heads and relayed as fact.

      Pushback is indeed needed, but it is tough in this online world to know who is sincere and who is posing.

      you were sick, but now you're well again and there's work to do- vonnegut

      by zzyzx on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:58:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  (Hillary = McCain) = (Gore = Bush) (6+ / 0-)

    Given that our current predicament came about, in part, because a small number of people bought into that kind of stupidity in 2000, you'd think that people would see the current hyperbole for what it is.  I'm not happy with what Hillary has done this year, but I can tell you I'd be a lot happier with her Supreme Court picks than with McCain's

    Now, go spread some peace, love and understanding. Use force if necessary. - Phil N DeBlanc

    by lineatus on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:06:04 AM PDT

  •  I wouldn't be surprised (4+ / 0-)

    at all.

    I was home over the weekend, and since my parents watch the teevee, I got to see firsthand Bill O trashing Daily Kos.  He's still unhinged about that Jenna Bush wedding diary.

  •  I think that most (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    redtex

    people are level headed and keep hate at arms length.  In fits of anger they may spew some but would think many times before doing anything destructive.  The right may think they are engendering something but once the nominee is known a lot of this will calm down.  The die-hard haters will always be with us, I feel that it can be a personality trait or a reaction to something in their lives, and they won't be able to give it up.  They are few I feel though.  I am always amazed at the general public, the ones not hanging out on the internet, and how they are oblivious to a lot of what we stress about.  It is good in this instance that they are not onto any of this.

    "Do you want to tumble? Let's tumble." Stephen Colbert

    by tobendaro on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:09:38 AM PDT

  •  Great Diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RubyGal, KjunLady, redtex

    I encourage all to check the history of future diaries when spotting trolls. The more they posts, the clearer the motive.

    Be vigilant.

    "Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well. " Barack Obama:A More Perfect Union

    by WeBetterWinThisTime on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:12:46 AM PDT

  •  I have noticed this also at Talk Left (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    boofdah, Youffraita, redtex, bryker

    and I think that Talk Left should be delinked..this is a blog that has Big Tent Democrat and Jeralyn Merritt as the gatekeepers and if you say anything that is remotely uncomplimentary about Hillary .. you get booted...it is very strange..and the Obama hatred there is not rational...and they were spewing about a secret Michelle Obama tape..they are sewing the seeds of discord there and they should be isolated...

    I agree with you that there are probably dozens of infiltrators from the darkside here on Daily Kos..this website is having too much of an impact on things.

    The other night, a poster was stating that he would be voting for McCain over Obama.  He was being tag teamed by another poster who was defending him..I don't know how to actually deal with someone like this other than to not engage them and have them waste my time..

    •  I don't either (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Youffraita, RubyGal, KjunLady, redtex

      Except being more aware of their motives and tactics seems to be a place to begin.

      In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

      by Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:19:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  recipes for trolls n/t (0+ / 0-)

      The Christian Right is Neither...

      by Prairie Logic on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:26:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I noticed that, too. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, gabriella, artmartin, KjunLady

      Either they work in pairs in the forums or they post diaries together.

      Slinging insults does not help. Name calling is just "stoopid" as they say.

      If you do engage then real questions tend to shut them up. I ask about more deaths in Iraq. They are ready for the Supreme Court question, so I try to ask something else.

      When all else fails, try humor.

      Checking histories does help. I haven't been here that long, so I expected to be questioned. I've worked to build up my rep. I have TU status, I don't think I've received a HR, and I've never written a diary.  

      I've also worked to learn the names of regular posters and personalities.  

      DailyKOS is a good place. I'd like to see it stay that way.
      And, I have my motives besides human interaction. When Obama takes office I would like to see problems addressed.
      This would be a great place to get those issues out in the public.  I'm looking forward to January 2009!

      "Make it so..."

      "I may not be perfect but I will always tell you what I think, and I will always tell you where I stand." Obama

      by redtex on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:04:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Working in pairs, interesting (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KjunLady, redtex

        I would imagine you're right that there's something coordinated about the interventions, that the do work in pairs or groups. When I get really paranoid, I think about the way the 9/11 terrorists supposedly worked, in cells, keeping a very low profile until the moment when something coordinated was set to happen and then all rising at once. I wonder if when certain things happen in the media, that bloggers don't coordinate. For example, when the assassination stuff hit the airwaves, the number of infiltrator trolls actually doing their thing went up.... It's all speculation, but it doesn't seem totally unreasonable to suspect them of acting like that.

        In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

        by Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:10:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Back in the 1990's (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boofdah, Circle

          I posted through BBS's on national political forums. We had a flame war break out. I do know that they got together and plotted. Heck, that was how one couple got married. They met to plot against us. I know how nasty they can get. To the point of trying to find out who you are to mess with your life.
          I became very adept at picking out one person that kept coming back as someone else...switching sides...and spreading dissent and disinformation.

          So, no, you are not being paranoid. Besides, I'm old enough to remember Kent State. I felt like I had a bull's eye painted on me because I was a teenager.

          "I may not be perfect but I will always tell you what I think, and I will always tell you where I stand." Obama

          by redtex on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:24:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Goes to show how important this election is. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    redtex

    I have no doubt that we are in a battle for the soul of our country and the Bush administration makes Cointelpro and Nixon look like Girl Scouts.  I think this is a fair warning and I'm certain I've have seen these operatives in action.  But also a good thing to remember is that Cointelpro's divide and conquer plot was to plant seeds of paranoia within groups so that they would devour themselves and become inaffective.

    Like if I start thinking that this diary is one of theirs and if you start thinking I'm on the payroll, then everything gets ugly real quick.

    I think this is the big leagues, this election.  God Bless everyone and strength to all...

    Hey, I'm depraved on account of I'm deprived! Dear Officer Krupke..

    by bryker on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:19:01 AM PDT

    •  They have very sophisticated ways (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      redtex, bryker

      of tearing down trust and effectiveness. That's part of what's freaky about the whole psyops thing, it's James Bond/Mission Impossible stuff, getting people to kill each other so they don't have to do it. One of things I never found to link was a story I thought I heard on Democracy Now! with someone bragging about how they could pull off a whole drama in the press, like a disaster, without it ever happening.

      In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

      by Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:23:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I know college journalism schools have done (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Circle, redtex

        tests to float things through the press that have been absurd.  completely funny when just a joke.  I hate thinking about things in this way, but you are right.  

        Hey, I'm depraved on account of I'm deprived! Dear Officer Krupke..

        by bryker on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:45:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  An example the "whitey tape" (0+ / 0-)

        Hillaryland is buzzing  with the anticipation, this time he is DOOOOOOOOM!

        The story goes like this Johnson at "no 1/4" claims that somebody he knows saw the tape, and that's it, they now have their meteorite, this rumor and the mythical 500 Mi&FL delegates that will change everything is all they have to keep going.

        Whenever someone point out why the "tape" is not in the news yet, the answer is that they (?) are waiting for the best moment to release it, when somebody points out that BHO's advantage is growing daily and that the process is almost over, they go all with the psyops BS  

        "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

        by IamTheJudge on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:45:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I saw stuff about the tape too (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KjunLady

          There are a bunch of Hillary fanatics who seem to think that there is some looming secrets that will destroy Obama. I read one discussion that folks from Wright's church are going to come forward with all sorts of horrible things about Michelle and Barack's personal life. The level at which these people are calling for Obama's destruction as a political figure, like he's the most awful man who has ever graced the senate or something, is mind-boggling.

          In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

          by Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:51:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  several reasons why they act as such (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Circle
            1. there aren't  many of them
            1. Many are doing JMC's work disguised as dems
            1. There is no discussion of issues
            1. there is no proof to their accusations.
            1. Their job is to sow discord and doubt

            "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

            by IamTheJudge on Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:31:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Can whoever recommends to the rec list (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Circle, redtex

    rec this one?  It's important, I think.

    It only makes sense that we're being infiltrated & manipulated, and that those doing it wouldn't be obvious.

  •  This needs to get onto the Rec list (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Circle, artmartin, redtex, loralei

    Thank you for writing this.  I have actually considered this possibility before too, however, like many others here I have also been guilty of losing my patience with some commenters and diarists.  Thanks for writing this.  I resolve to try to keep this in the front of my mind and try harder to respond to angry or talking point laden comments and diaries with compassion or humor, rather than anger.

    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -Ghandi

    by Triscula on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:54:28 AM PDT

    •  Humor (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      loralei

      I had a run in with a Hillary supporter not long ago. She was saying some horrid things on the surface.But, in her tone I caught wisps of humor. We went back and forth for about two days. I countered with humor and understanding where she was coming from...we ended with her saying she liked me and that she would vote for Obama in the GE.

      People that come here in rabid hate are not going to have that humor about them. ANd, our hating will not neutralize them...nor name calling.

      It would be nice if we had a core group of people that would try to reason with as you say compassion and humor.

      (And, if we can watch our tempers, I'm a redhead, I know I have one.)

      "I may not be perfect but I will always tell you what I think, and I will always tell you where I stand." Obama

      by redtex on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:13:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        redtex

        I have come to the conclusion that the most irrational, fervent supporters of Clinton and Obama are likely to be agitators.  But it's possible to go too far the other direction.  I'm a little tired of seeing clearly moderate, rational Clinton supporters just saying their piece get labeled "trolls" just for not supporting Obama.  It doesn't reflect well on us.

        A little compassion, a little humor, and a little recognition of their right to disagree would go far towards dispelling the "vote McCain" meme.  Meanwhile, being nice to actual trolls seems to disarm them as well.  They thrive on stirring stuff up.

        •  Freedom of speech (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vcthree

          They do have a right to post their support for their candidate. And, being hateful and calling names does not help at all.

          I'll never get to the point where I say positive things about Hillary. Just can't do it within my moral guidelines. But, I do try not to attack her in a sexist or ugly fashion. The issues are enough! And, when she drops, I'd like to see the Hillary debate stop.  

          We need to slow down calling out troll warnings.

          "I may not be perfect but I will always tell you what I think, and I will always tell you where I stand." Obama

          by redtex on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:55:10 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Amen. I've posted similar arguments here before (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    redtex

    One thing to keep in mind is that, not only is it possible that Republican psy ops people are out to make Obama supporters hate HRC supporters and vice versa, but maybe the psy ops people are hard at work figuring out ways to turn Obama and HRC and their spouses against one another.

    Certainly, HRC has run an imperfect campaign, but I think the hatred at blogs on both sides is over the top.

    •  you mean just get everyone mad at everyone (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      redtex

      no matter who the candidate is?

      In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

      by Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:23:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  For the Republicans, O-HRC anger is ideal, but (0+ / 0-)

        general Democratic anger is OK, too.

        Republicans tend to do better when turnout is low.

        One way to depress turnout is to use negative campaigning and get voters so disgusted with the system that they just stay home.

        Note: I'm absolutely not suggesting that people should refrain from fact-oriented criticisms of HRC or Obama, but, aside from occasional references to HRC's Iraq invasion authorization vote, I just don't think I see any fact-oriented criticism or HRC whatsoever, and the only "fact-oriented" criticism of Obama that I see seems to be based on fake or distorted facts. (E.g.: people borrowing the wingnut meme that Obama's father was a rich kid by Kenyan standards, not a goatherd.)

        The last time I saw anything about HRC that even sort of tried to bring in new facts about her was the stuff about her grandmother being a terrible slumlord in Scranton, Pa. And that was interesting, but it  was very thinly researched and had nothing directly to do with HRC. The stuff about HRC's dad allegedly being a disgusting, grubby, corrupt kind of guy was, potentially, more relevant (example: to HRC, maybe the Daily Kos community seems to be the new electronic version of her abusive father), but that too seemed to be pretty poorly substantiated.

        A few months ago, I saw a few diaries about Obama supposedly not convening subcommittee hearings, but then HRC dropped that ball and I never heard anything more.

    •  Don't forget escaping Republcans (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Circle, loralei, Wendy Slammo

      There are Republicans that are fed up with Bush, fed up with the war and fed up with the nastiness.

      They are looking for a new way. They might be interested in Obama...he does appeal to them. I know.

      What happens if they come here and see hate and name calling?

      Can they come here and read positive things about Obama? Do they read why we support Obama.

      I've started going through and rec'ing the good diaries. We need the hateful or dumb diaries to sink quickly.  

      Police ourself in a casual, community like way.

      "I may not be perfect but I will always tell you what I think, and I will always tell you where I stand." Obama

      by redtex on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:31:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  not worth it to vote or sounds libertarian (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Circle, redtex

    These two always worry me.  So simple and corrosive and completely effective for the GOP. And yes, certainly there are psy-ops more sly and threatening than these but please don't overlook these two.

  •  so wait a second (0+ / 0-)

    Does this mean that Hillary's actions aren't really despicable and that I've been bamboozled by invisible right wing agents into thinking she's despicable? It's my fault I think she's despicable, because I'm not bright enough to figure out I'm being manipulated?

    Naw, man. She's despicable. Straight up, gutterscum.

    •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KjunLady

      I'm not writing this to let Hillary off the hook. In fact, in one of my comments somewhere along the way, I said I thought she'd become a patsy for the Right, that she and Bill actually think that Limbaugh and Rove, et, al are somehow on their side. I think she's been blinded by ambition to the way she's being used and destroyed by the right and their tactics. I do think that the type of supporters she has hanging out at Hillaryis44 and Taylor Marsh are way over the top. I think she asa stirred the hatred and the insanity, but I also think some of the people posting there are probably right wing plants stoking the fire.

      In a time of universal deceit, the simple act of telling the truth is revolutionary--George Orwell

      by Circle on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:46:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the completeness of the irony (0+ / 0-)

        is that she got in bed with Scaife, THE embodiment of the VRWC that attacked her and disowned MoveOn, which was formed specifically to protect her from the VRWC. She became everything she was ever against, embraced the enemy, abandoned her allies.

        Don't know if your paranoia is justified, though. They could be just assholes.

  •  Ciircle- ya dit it!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gabriella

    Fabulous diary--- (did ya see McSame on tv today?... reading 3 telePrompTers?... left, center, right.. and back again ...I thought he was gonna get dizzy and fall off the podium.)

    The purpose of this website IS to elect a Democrat... and today's broadcasts helped further that goal.

    And, Mr.McSame, never talk "off-script".... "I will never surrender in Iraq".. not a smart way to sart your speech.

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